EV Digest 4952
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Walmart Heater Cooks
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Clinton Library EV Charge station
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) OT: UPS sought
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV digest 4951
by Rick Woodbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Battery monitoring question
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Inertia Switch
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Battery monitoring question
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 21 Ponies?
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Clooney's Tango
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Zapi Controller - Voltage
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery monitoring question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: House Power
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Stalled motors (was Re: Inertia Switch)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 21 Ponies?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: House Power
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Zapi Regen Controller for Sale
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Clooney's Tango
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Inertia Switch
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 21 Ponies?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: 21 Ponies?
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Battery monitoring question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Inertia Switch
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: One more 2-speed (for a motorcycle)
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Inertia Switch
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
After several days on-the-road use, I have to say that the Walmart
heater is a success. I took 2 Walmart 1500W ceramic heater cores, wired
them together in parallel, and installed them in place of the original
heater core in my Jet Electrica. They are connected to traction pack
voltage (120V) through a contactor that is activated by a 12V relay,
which is in turn controlled by the heater fan switch. This worked out
well because the fan switch doesn't supply enough voltage to the relay
until the switch is at medium speed, assuring airflow through the heater
cores. Temperature is just controlled by the amount of air flowing
through the cores, using the fan speed and temperature slide on the
regular heater control panel. When I first turn the heater on it takes
about 20 seconds to start blowing hot air. So I have 3000W of
almost-instant heat at my disposal. Nice and toasty! Total cost for
the system was about $60.
Blue skies,
Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Naw, sunflower seed hull caught under the "T". Now you know my
weakness :-)
John
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 05:55:51 +0000, "damon henry"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Freudian slip?
>
>>Who
>>knows? I might not even be hooked to power.
>>
>>IMO, of course.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
M Bianchi wrote:
> I'm going to put non-reversable temperature-indicator labels on the
> terminals of my traction pack... How hot will a _properly_ connected
> battery terminal get, at say 250 Amps. I'm _guessing_ that 170 degrees
> F might be a reasonable number, but if anyone on the list can say
> something more certain, I would appreciate it.
The temperature is affected not only by the connection resistance, but also by
current, time at that current, the amount of exposed metal to dissipate the
heat, and how much airflow there is. So it's hard to state any single number.
I'd say the "overtemperature" limit should be between 140 deg.F and 200 deg.F.
The low end is very safe, but might falsely trip on a hot day after a long
high-current run. The upper end is just short of the point where you are
going to have to walk home!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm looking for a used/surplus UPS in the 5-10kva range with 48 volt
batteries. Batteries not needed. Anyone have any suggestions for
places to look besides Sleazebay?
Thanks,
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I can only assume it's commutercars's auction..
> Be interesting to see what it goes for!
I just received a couple of emails this morning regarding the Ebay listing.
I got a call from a fellow in NY yesterday who saw an article on George
Clooney's Tango in the NY Post. He said that he's sending $10k deposits for
2 Tangos. He's probably betting on the come, that there will be much more
demand than supply by the end of 6 months. I guess he's just feeling the
water now, but I don't think it will be an accurate reading because we don't
have a long waiting list. After the one we're building now (body panels are
being laid up at this moment) we can probably build 10 at one time and meet
our orders as they come in.
Rick Woodbury Phone: (509) 624-0762
President, Commuter Cars Corporation Toll-free: (800) 468-0944
Doubling the capacity of freeways Fax: (509) 624-1466
Quadrupling the capacity of parking Cellular: (509) 979-1815
Zero to 60 in under 4 seconds
715 E. Sprague Ave., Suite 70 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Spokane, WA 99202 Web: http://www.commutercars.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering, if you had a device that was accurately monitoring each
batteries individual voltage constantly, as well as the total current
drawn by the string, what would you be able to do with the information?
I'm talking about automatic type stuff...
I have no idea if these are all valid, but here are some initial thoughts:
- Switch out a battery that is about to reverse
- Calculate state of charge
- Periodic logging of "state of health" for each battery, warning driver
to replace bad apples
- Cool compact dashboard display
Any others?
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And note the seller is listed as being in New York City... far away from
Rick's corner of the world... so I'll be pessimistic too (until shown
otherwise).
Hump wrote:
I would assume the opposite....that this is one of those lowlife ebay scammers.
You pay up and get nothing but delay's.
Save your money and time and send a deposit straight to the Woodbury's if you
want one.
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:21 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
"This car is not manufactured yet. I will custom make this car to your
needs."
I can only assume it's commutercars's auction..
Be interesting to see what it goes for!
On 11/30/05, Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So who is the guy selling it?
What is his/her relationship with commutercars?
Mark
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Does it have anything to do with where the impact is in relationship
to the switch? Eve's FCO was right next to the fuel tank filler. Would
the car's crumple zones absorb enough force from a front end collision
and not trigger the switch? If so, and in the case of fuel lines that
run the whole length of the car, I would think an FCO switch on both
ends of the car would provide a more reliable cut-off.
BTW, they are mandated in most forms of racing that allow electric fuel
pumps. But the placement is rarely exactly specified. The crumple zones
shouldn't overly effect how they work... it's supposedly based on an
inertial thing, like hanging a weight from a string with springs on both
sides, and triggering as soon as it swings too far (not sure if that an
accurate estimation, just a racers explanation I heard). The switch is
favored close to the fuel pump to keep wiring simple and avoid potential
short-around situations.
In all reality, once EVs become a bit more commonplace it will be
mandated anyways, so I would consider it a good idea IMHO
> I was kind of toying with the idea of using the inertia switch to
trigger the main ignition relay. Push the big red button (reset) and
the car is drive-able. When you are done driving you a quick whack to
the dash and the car shuts off! They probably aren't made for frequent
cycles...
I'm pretty sure they won't go off that way... or else we would see a lot
more accidental triggering with all the cars that have them these days.
You could use one of those "shock sensors" that car alarms use.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
- Battery regulation during charging
- Communication with or control of charger
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stefan T. Peters
>
>
> I was wondering, if you had a device that was accurately
> monitoring each
> batteries individual voltage constantly, as well as the total current
> drawn by the string, what would you be able to do with the
> information?
> I'm talking about automatic type stuff...
>
> I have no idea if these are all valid, but here are some
> initial thoughts:
>
> - Switch out a battery that is about to reverse
> - Calculate state of charge
> - Periodic logging of "state of health" for each battery,
> warning driver
> to replace bad apples
> - Cool compact dashboard display
>
> Any others?
>
> --
>
> Stefan T. Peters
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's hard to tell exactly what he did from the clip. It looks like he's
added a Lemco permanent magnet motor to the drivetrain and a
turbocharger to the engine. I don't see his batteries anywhere.
Looks like a standard Etek to me -
http://electricmotorcycles.net/files/Picture1.png
I'm a huge Etek fan but I question how it'd hold up to moving a full size car.
Mike
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
Electric Motorcycle Listserv
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rick Woodbury said:
> I got a call from a fellow in NY yesterday who saw an article on George
> Clooney's Tango in the NY Post.
I can't find the NY Post article online, but Google News dug up this one
from UPI, posted yesterday:
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20051129-012906-5730r
This is the first report I've seen of Clooney's Tango from a mainstream
(non-EV-related) source.
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just found more notes. I't's good for 80-144V and 400A.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will offer such a gadget quite soon. When it's ready, will
announce availability on EVDL.
Automatic "switching out" a battery is very problematic and
not really worth the effort - if you *know* the trouble is
approaching and willing to let a cell to die to keep moving
(or must go and have no choice) it is better to stop and
put a jumper across bad cell or bypass bad battery if no cell
access.
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
I was wondering, if you had a device that was accurately monitoring each
batteries individual voltage constantly, as well as the total current
drawn by the string, what would you be able to do with the information?
I'm talking about automatic type stuff...
I have no idea if these are all valid, but here are some initial thoughts:
- Switch out a battery that is about to reverse
- Calculate state of charge
- Periodic logging of "state of health" for each battery, warning driver
to replace bad apples
- Cool compact dashboard display
Any others?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Davidson wrote:
> My electric utility provider to my residence has been less than 100%
> reliable. I have some health related issues (Diabetic/must keep insulin
> cold). Instead of an ICE powered generator, if I were to install a voltage
> inverter on my EV to power AC appliances, how many amps would my EV provide
> to these appliances? Or do I need an inverter? How or where in the circuit
> might I place a 110V AC outlet? What is the total wattage or amps I can get
> off of 102 volt traction pack to power AC appliances? Or how would I set
> up a string of batteries in my cellar for battery back up to my residential
> power? Just thinking of alternatives to an expensive, noisy, smelly
> traditional gasoline fueled generator.
There are lots of ways to solve this problem. Pick one that you like and that
fits your circumstances.
If all you need to do is keep medicines cool, ice in a plain old ice chest is
fine for a week or so. Just keep a bunch of jugs of water frozen in the
freezer, and put them in an ice chest with the medicine if the power fails.
Or, a small 12v refrigerator will keep the medicines cool for as long as you
have 12v power. A cooler that holds a 6-pack uses about 50 watts (12v at 4
amps); a 1.6 cu.ft camping refrigerator uses about 150 watts (12v at 12
amps). Any car can provide that for 1-10 hours (and recharge the battery as
needed). Or you can use your EV's batteries, 12v at a time; they can last a
week or so. Or, get a solar panel big enough to run the cooler or
refrigerator indefinitely.
If you want to run an entire 120vac kitchen refrigerator or home freezer full
of food, you need considerably more power; they use 300 watts or more (the
peak is higher, but they don't run all the time). The two ways to get AC
power are a motor-generator, and an electronic inverter.
The motor-generator solution includes more than the obvious lawnmower engine
spinning a generator. You can also have a belt-driven generator installed in
your car (either gasoline or electric). Generators are good for heavy loads
like motors that don't need to run all the time. Your home refrigerator,
freezer, furnace, air conditioner, and coffee pot are all examples of this
type of load. Run the motor-generator for 10 minutes per hour; just enough to
keep your food cool and the house livable.
Inverters are better for light loads that need to stay on for long periods
(lights, computers, TVs, radios, phones). By far the most common ones run on
12v. You can power them from your ICE or EV's 12v system. The vehicle should
have an alternator or DC/DC to recharge the 12v battery as needed. The amount
of power you can get this way is limited. Don't try to run things with motors
or heating elements from an inverter powered by 12v.
Higher voltage inverters are available that run on 24v, 48v, and even EV pack
voltages. They can produce enough power for motors and heating appliances,
but cost a lot more and are harder to find. Practically speaking, your EV
batteries only hold perhaps 10 KWH of power; you will run them dead in less a
couple hours if you tried to run your home air conditioner or other heavy
load from them, even if you did have a big enough inverter.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> I thought that doing this sort of thing is a great way to burn up your
>> drive motor (or at least get it really hot inside)? Or is this something
>> that only affects series DC systems?
Christopher Zach wrote:
> This does not seem to affect AC systems, at least not my 50kw water
> cooled system.
>
> Likewise you can really *creep* with AC. Not sure if DC can do the walk
> up an ice hill trick.
This is not an AC vs. DC thing. Instead, it depends on how the motor is cooled
and how good the controller is.
If you ask any motor to produce high torque, it needs to draw high current.
The high current produces lots of heat in the motor. If you are asking for
this high torque at stall or very low speed, the heat is concentrated in one
part of the motor. How long it can stand this depends on how good the cooling
system works at stall.
- If the motor depends on an internal fan for cooling, this fan isn't working
at low speed; thus you get no cooling. The motor overheats very quickly!
- If you have an external blower or liquid cooling, the motor can survive a
lot longer at high current and low speeds.
- A brushed motor at stall overheats the commutator bars first.
- An induction motor at stall overheats the rotor first.
- A brushless DC (AC synchronous) overheats one set of windings first.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >It's hard to tell exactly what he did from the clip. It looks like he's
> >added a Lemco permanent magnet motor to the drivetrain and a
> >turbocharger to the engine. I don't see his batteries anywhere.
>
> Looks like a standard Etek to me -
> http://electricmotorcycles.net/files/Picture1.png
>
> I'm a huge Etek fan but I question how it'd hold up to moving a full size car.
>
Wouldn't say a Dodge Neon is classified as a "full size car", but a motor with a
15hp peak in it=~40mph, and not continuously. Would do for city streets without
hills and as a helper for that boosted engine, but you wonder how he fit
everything in, what kind of controls he used (regen? load sharing with the
ICE?), and what got lost to fit the pack. Even though a Neon chassis is the
basis for the PT Cruiser, doesn't it still have less room than the first
"stretched-frame-Echo" Prius? Nice to make something yourself, but would it
cost less to create than just buying a used Prius?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fellow diabetic here. All you really need for your insulin is to keep
a few blue ice packs frozen in the freezer and a couple of foam ice
coolers, one stuck inside the other. Two coolers full of blue ice
will keep for a week or more. I use that method when I'm traveling by
car. In a pinch, you can wrap your insulin in a towel to keep it from
freezing, surround it with blue ice and put it in a box full of
styrofoam peanuts. Peanuts are amazingly good insulation. I've
tested this with dummy insulin and a datalogger. With 4 medium sized
blue ice packs and 10" of peanuts on all sides, the setup is good for
at least a week.
Human insulin of recombinant origin will keep for weeks at room
temperature so refrigeration is really optional unless you've stocked
up for a year or something. I keep my spare Novolog pens in the
'fridge but my "use" pen remains in my pocket or my butt pack. I
track my usage carefully to make sure no problems develop including
loss of potency from room temperature storage. So far, no problems.
On to the inverter question. A full size refrigerator/freezer will
need a kw or more of inverter power to start. Run draw is highly
dependent on the particular fridge. Real the nameplate.
I replaced the absorption gas powered 'fridge in my motorhome with a
compact electric. I got tired of melted ice cream in summer heat :-)
I run it on a 500 watt inverter. It only draws about 60 watts running
(~60% duty cycle in summer) but it takes that large an inverter to
start the compressor. The most important characteristic of an
inverter after its capacity rating, is the ability to automatically
reset from a fault when the fault clears. I lost a couple of 'fridges
full of food learning that one. My first inverter would trip from
high voltage while charging the MH's batteries. It required a power
cycle to reset. Bad, bad, bad! The Vector I have now does an
auto-reset when the input voltage returns to the acceptable range.
You can't power AC appliances from your EV because your EV is DC. I'm
not aware of a home-sized commercially made inverter that will run on
high voltage DC. If there is one, it will be frightfully expensive.
If you want to use the whole pack, about the only option of reasonable
cost is a motor-generator set. A compound or shunt wound motor (for
good speed regulation) driving a 120vac generator would do the job.
I'd not go that route but it is an option.
You're far better off with one of the commodity 12 volt inverters now
widely available. Sam's Club currently sells a 1500 watt inverter for
$79. A very nice inverter. I have several. I just got a flyer from
Harbor freight for a 2kw inverter for $179.
If you wanted to use your EV for emergency power then you could
connect 12 volt inverter, 12 volts at a time. Then, of course, charge
them back in 12 volt increments later. I do that on occasion with my
Citi when I need remote power and don't want to fool with one of my
generators.
Of course, if you're just interested in reliable, hassle-free power
and don't need to make an empty symbolic gesture, one of the cheapest
sources of power is the little 1kw 2-stroke generator that Northern
Tool sells for $179. I bought mine with a different brand on it from
one of the ChiCom tool vendors for $129. It's quiet, reliable and
with smokeless synthetic oil, smoke-free. It starts easily and
handles overload well.
I'll add one other thought. One of the best things you can have
around for all-round emergency preparedness is a small motorhome,
something in the 20-24 ft range. Mine is in that range - see my web
site for photos. A MH is a fully self-contained living support
system. It has water, sewer, heat, AC and electric power with enough
reserves for several days to a week or more, depending on how frugal
you are. I routinely "dry camp" (camp without outside resources) for
10 days. I carry more fresh water and fuel on a trailer that I tow
behind the rig.
If you keep the rig fully stocked, it provides a place to run to when
the power is out, the city water is bad or whatever. And it provides
a means to flee when there's an area emergency and a place to live
when you get there. Mine holds enough gas for about 500 miles of
driving so I can completely leave a disaster area before having to
think about fuel.
Even something as simple as the AC going out on a hot night (ALWAYS at
night!) becomes a non-emergency when the RV is handy.
John
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:16:43 -0500, "Don Davidson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This question should be popular with the California EV owners:
>
>My electric utility provider to my residence has been less than 100% reliable.
>I have some health related issues (Diabetic/must keep insulin cold). Instead
>of an ICE powered generator, if I were to install a voltage inverter on my EV
>to power AC appliances, how many amps would my EV provide to these appliances?
>Or do I need an inverter? How or where in the circuit might I place a 110V AC
>outlet? What is the total wattage or amps I can get off of 102 volt traction
>pack to power AC appliances? Or how would I set up a string of batteries in
>my cellar for battery back up to my residential power? Just thinking of
>alternatives to an expensive, noisy, smelly traditional gasoline fueled
>generator.
>Don Davidson
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have a never-used early (1993) Zapi regen controller, complete with
footpedal and wiring diagrams, with the original Italian notes translated
into Engllish. We acquired it as a sample to possibly add to our product
line, but nothing ever came of it, it was never installed in a
vehicle. It's suitable for a series DC motor such as the ADC, The model
number is ZRM series, #HFM400. I believe it is for a 120V 400A system.
Offering it for $500 + shipping costs, as is, no warranty. If you are
interested, contact me offlist.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I can't find the NY Post article online, but Google News dug up this one
> from UPI, posted yesterday:
>
> http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20051129-012906-5730r
>
> This is the first report I've seen of Clooney's Tango from a mainstream
> (non-EV-related) source.
>
> --chris
>
The public might balk at the $85K he paid, but he probably spends more on a
watch or bar tab. Can you even get an Italian sports car for that much?
Cruising Beverly Hills, where exotica is the norm, he'd get noticed more than
any bright red Ferrari!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After 27 years in the fire service, I have to disagree with your friend.
30Gs is very survivable. We routinely see people walk away from
crashes that destroyed cars and deployed airbags with NO injuries at
all.
30Gs? He was simply commenting on the "wearing a seatbelt but entire body still got
jammed under the dash on top of the accelerator peddle" part. But someone else did
raise the point of throttle swing in a frontal accident. Maybe something loose in the car
hits it instead? There are many potential possibilities that would have you wanting an
inertial power cutoff switch.
I myself survived much more than 30Gs in a head-on motorcycle accident at about
40MPH with a 3/4 pickup in my early 20's. Couldn't walk for over a year
(DVR-vocational rehabilitation, that's primarily how I paid for my degree in
computer science, and why I sit behind a desk all day now) But the bike most
definitely did not. The motor block was actually cracked top to bottom, most of
the cooling fins were torn off the head, the transmission was pancaked, and the
front down-tube on the frame was split apart from the forks. Now without any
power to speak of, the bike did travel much farther from the accident then I
did... (ballistic movement) but I was glad for the inertial fuel cutoff (right
under the tank where the gas comes out, electrically operated valve, spring
loaded-normally closed, sensor breaks current to valve) Honda so wisely
provided. My helmeted head conveniently shattered the headlight on the truck,
so a lap full of sparks combined with legs soaked in gasoline wo!
uld of been a BAD thing.
I say it's a good idea, even without gasoline in the mix. My point is that you
never know what exactly will happen in the chaos during an accident.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm more on the "snow side" of France (east) but you are welcome :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
> Hi Dave;
>
> Long time, no see! Wanna come to thev next meeting in Worcester, at a
> nice restaurant there, the X mas bash. Get SOMETHING for yur EAA
menbership,
> bring wife an' kids, they hafta eat, too!
>
> Jet Blue has all these great deals if you follow them. Hard to
> resist!Hell, got one going for 59 to Palm Beach, just AFTER I booked!
>
> South of France? Sounds like fun? Surprise Phillipe our French Guy on
> the List<g>! Out of country? Bit pricy, for now.
>
> Seeya in DEC 10?
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:54 PM
> Subject: Fwd: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
>
>
> > Wow Bob, I'm jealous. Now that you're retired you're a real EVworld
> traveler. Isn't there a big
> > battery convention in the South of France or some such sunny location?
> >
> > I'm counting down the days till I can retire and join you. Let's see, my
> youngest daughter will be
> > out of college in about 10 years, about the same time my mortgage will
be
> paid off. Hopefully I'll
> > have my EV going before then.
> >
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Subject: Battery Beach Burnout Races!?
> > > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:44:13 -0500
> > >
> > > Hi All;
> > >
> > > Well, My Jet Blue tix are ready, to Jet away from cold an' snow for
a
> few daze. Anybody else
> > > goin"? Any of you FLA guyz know the area? Do I REALLY hafta pay over
100
> bux a nite for
> > > lodgings?I'm just guessing that the " Strip" there, if there IS one
> there, would be cheepie Ma
> > > an' Pa places, along the way.Where is EVerybody else staying?
> > >
> > > Maybe a bit early for now, but I thought I'd bring it up.
> > >
> > > Seeya There!
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:28:29 -0800, "Patrick Maston"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It's hard to tell exactly what he did from the clip. It looks like he's
>added a Lemco permanent magnet motor to the drivetrain and a
>turbocharger to the engine. I don't see his batteries anywhere.
His credibility started evaporating when I saw the Curtis controller.
Of course, he had an AXE mounted to the wheel well but who knows? Any
video that claims that it will "change my life" makes my BS meter
wiggle.
Anyway, I'm currently working with a client on an interesting
application. He's transplanting a Jag V12 into another vehicle and
equipping it with twin screw-type superchargers. The difference is,
we're driving the superchargers with DC motors. The goal is
essentially zero throttle lag and no mechanical drag on the engine
during power runs.
Usual stuff, 48 volts, AXE controller, maybe controller bypass
contactors, fork lift motors, etc. I've modified a Leese-Neville 250
amp truck alternator to supply the charging current to Orbitals.
Everything controlled by a custom single-chip micro-based controller.
We have the drives, alternator and control system working on the
bench. He's fabricating mounting hardware right now, and working on
the transplant. I'm hoping we can road-test the setup by spring.
There's a special drag racing mode in the controller. When activated,
the line lock is applied, the superchargers are spun up to a slightly
positive current draw and a couple PSI manifold pressure (just above
the freewheel RPM) and the alternator is powered pretty much full up
to get the batteries as electrically hot as possible. When the line
lock is released, the blowers spin up to full boost, the alternator
field is killed and the car launches.
Once we get the car on the road we'll fiddle around with a delay setup
where he can "launch" on the last yellow like ordinary bracket racers
do but that delay will be used to build full boost.
We've talked a little about a "pseudo-hybrid" mode for street driving
whereby power is returned to the engine via a pressurized intake but
he's not yet terribly interested in this aspect. Maybe after we get
the car running.
The "street mode" is actually going to be more challenging from a
control perspective than the racing mode to get good throttle response
and throttle "feel".
Maybe some pics later if he agrees. No, we won't be selling a DVD :-)
John
>
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/29/05 10:24:08 PM >>>
>Has anyone got any comments on the video here: http://www.21ponies.com/
>?
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I'm a huge Etek fan but I question how it'd hold up to moving a
full size car.
Wouldn't say a Dodge Neon is classified as a "full size car", but a
motor with a
Good point but in my defence I'm a motorcycle guy! :)
Mike
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
New Electric Motorcycle ListServ
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
> I was wondering, if you had a device that was accurately monitoring each
> batteries individual voltage constantly, as well as the total current
> drawn by the string, what would you be able to do with the information?
> I'm talking about automatic type stuff...
>
> I have no idea if these are all valid, but here are some initial
> thoughts:
>
> - Switch out a battery that is about to reverse
> - Calculate state of charge
> - Periodic logging of "state of health" for each battery, warning driver
> to replace bad apples
> - Cool compact dashboard display
>
> Any others?
My Balancer measures each battery voltage, and if one is found to be low, it
charges it with power from the pack as a whole. This has the effect of
*preventing* it from going dead or reversing or otherwise being damaged. Done
right, all batteries reach "dead" at the same time.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hump [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Definately not 30g's (or even close) to trip it.
This jives with my own experience with the inertia switch I purchased
from EVParts for my conversion. It appears identical to the one that
was in my '98 Ford Escort, next to the fuse block by the driver's feet.
I can arm the switch and then trip it simply by giving it a rap with my
hand.
jerry halstead [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] asked:
> Does it have anything to do with where the impact is in
> relationship to the switch? Eve's FCO was right next to
> the fuel tank filler. Would the car's crumple zones
> absorb enough force from a front end collision
> and not trigger the switch?
Yes, it absolutely does have something to do with where the switch is
located in the car precisely because the crumple zones reduce the
deceleration seen by the passenger compartment. Consider a head on
crash into a brick wall: the front grill experiences a huge deceleration
since it stops immediately, but the passenger compartment sees a much
lower deceleration as it slows more gradually while the engine
compartment crumples up.
I was involved in the R&D of inertial-type sensors/switches used to
trigger airbags, and the amount of G's a particular sensor required to
trip the airbag depended upon where it would be mounted in the car. A
sensor mounted out by the radiator required a markedly different force
than one mounted at the passenger compartment, for instance.
Based on the physical similarity between the inertia switch in my Escort
and the one I purchased, I believe that it should operate reasonably
when mounted on the firewall as that is quite similar to the mounting
location in the Escort. I would be unsure of the protection offered by
using a switch that was intended to be mounted by the fuel filler if
that switch were relocated to the firewall, but it certainly will be
better than not including an inertia switch at all.
jerry halstead [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] also wondered:
> I was kind of toying with the idea of using the inertia switch to
> trigger the main ignition relay. Push the big red button
> (reset) and the car is drive-able. When you are done driving
> you a quick whack to the dash and the car shuts off!
I'm not sure about how many cycles the switch is rated for either, so
wouldn't use this technique even if I did want to pound on my dash every
time I park my EV.
Note that once tripped, you must push the reset button on the inertia
switch to reset it, so to do what you suggest would require that you
mount the switch so that it is readily acessible from the driver's seat.
What I am doing is to run the 12V power for the main contactor coils
from the ignition switch through the inertia switch. In the event of a
crash, the contactors drop out automatically, but in normal operation I
just turn the key on/off to pull them in or to shut the car off.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:41:28 -0500, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>M Bianchi wrote:
>> I'm going to put non-reversable temperature-indicator labels on the
>> terminals of my traction pack... How hot will a _properly_ connected
>> battery terminal get, at say 250 Amps. I'm _guessing_ that 170 degrees
>> F might be a reasonable number, but if anyone on the list can say
>> something more certain, I would appreciate it.
>
>The temperature is affected not only by the connection resistance, but also by
>current, time at that current, the amount of exposed metal to dissipate the
>heat, and how much airflow there is. So it's hard to state any single number.
>
>I'd say the "overtemperature" limit should be between 140 deg.F and 200 deg.F.
>The low end is very safe, but might falsely trip on a hot day after a long
>high-current run. The upper end is just short of the point where you are
>going to have to walk home!
I'm not sure I'd go as high as 200 deg. I'd be looking at the
softening/creep temperature of the battery case plastic. The first
damage would be the terminal loosening in the case and allowing acid
to creep out. Further plastic creep could let an internal connection
break or plate move about.
I have 120 deg "tattletails" on a few of my battery terminals. I've
never had one trigger, even at the 400+ amps my Citi pulls from the
battery on hills.
My personal limit is "comfortably warm". If I feel a terminal and
find it more than slightly warm then I start looking for the reason.
With SAE terminals and good cable terminations, there really isn't any
reason for significant heat at the current levels we deal with.
BTW, the tattletails can be bought from Omega Engineering
http://www.omega.com (high $$), Wahl Instruments (now part of Palmer)
and probably a few other places. I like Wahl's products and have
decades's worth of experience. They sell both the crayons and the
stickers that change color. http://www.palmerwahl.com/
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why does anything you don't understand have to be a scam? This guy's
probably decided that he can make some money reselling a Tango. In
other words, he's acting as a dealer. Another term might be a buyer's
agent. It sounds like he's trying to get the down payment on the car
via the auction.
If the buyer uses an escrow agent, I don't see any problems. More
risk than I'd want to take on - on either side of the transaction -
but probably not a scam.
John
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:02:37 -0500, Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>And note the seller is listed as being in New York City... far away from
>Rick's corner of the world... so I'll be pessimistic too (until shown
>otherwise).
>
>Hump wrote:
>> I would assume the opposite....that this is one of those lowlife ebay
>> scammers.
>>
>> You pay up and get nothing but delay's.
>>
>> Save your money and time and send a deposit straight to the Woodbury's if
>> you want one.
>>
>> Stay Charged!
>> Hump
>>
>>
>>
>> Original Message -----------------------
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Evan Tuer
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:21 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
>>
>> "This car is not manufactured yet. I will custom make this car to your
>> needs."
>>
>> I can only assume it's commutercars's auction..
>> Be interesting to see what it goes for!
>>
>> On 11/30/05, Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>So who is the guy selling it?
>>>What is his/her relationship with commutercars?
>>>
>>>Mark
>>>
>>
>>
>>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-11-29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4592984274
That'll be a rare and unusual automatic gearbox, I think ...
Why the sudden interest in 2 speed gearboxes anyway?
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:43 AM 30/11/05 -0500, Dewey, Jody R wrote:
Now that is smart!
> From: Patrick Maston
>
> My inertia switch is connected in series with my main contactor
> activation relay. If I get in an accident that activates the inertia
> switch, the main contactor will open, thereby opening the circuit to the
> traction battery pack.
Hi All.
Smart? Well, I thought that that was merely sensible. Along with main
contactors (yes, plural, that's two contactors, one in B+, one in B-, set
to come off simultaneously). Actually I haven't yet worked out the wiring
details, B- contactor to come on with ignition, B+ contactor to come on
under control from the Zilla, once B+ contactor is energised the B-
contactor control changes over to common with the B+ contactor so both go
off together.
I'm not sure if I'm being smart using an adjustable (1 to 9G) industrial
shock sensor with press-to-reset mounted in the cab (if a minor impact
trips it off, check all is OK and then reset it and go). But I got the
sensor cheap (unused, surplus) so I can't complain about the price.
James.
--- End Message ---
