EV Digest 4999
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: links on evproduction.org wiki. Lobbyist Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: CVT transmission for EV - long
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Re Stefans motor question. Alltrax and e-tec and motor torque.
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Cushman's available & stability question, comments
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Cushman's available & stability question
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Public service (was Re: links on evproduction.org wiki)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: I found some information on GE EV-1 Controller, but details lacking
(long)
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Prestolite Motor Question
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Prestolite Motor Question
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Prestolite Motor Question
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Prestolite Motor Question
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Dump Charging
by Mark Dodrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: TS Undervoltage Detection
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: WarP top RPM
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Plasma Boy's School of Charger Repair
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Yet another e-bay find
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) RPM, brushes and commutators, was: RE: CVT transmission for EV
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Are these chargers any different?g
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) unsubcribe
by Bill Vesely <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Electro Automotive Voltsporsche AC kit for sale
by Jim Meehan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Volksbash Radio
by "slodown27" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: unsubcribe
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Open source EV community site
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: links on evproduction.org wiki
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > Interesting. So why EV oddballs and nuts still did not form a league
> > just as ham [nuts] did ARRL or aircraft nuts did EAA? People themselves
> > I'm sure are no different. Is it just not enough critical mass yet, or
> > unlike other two nuts groups, EVers step on the toes of OEM industry?
>
> The ARRL and EAA both formed when the federal government sought to pass
laws
> to essentially outlaw all amateur radios (ARRL) and all private aircraft
> (EAA). In each case, the hobbyists were the ones that created these fields
in
> the first place, and were responsible for most of the technical
innovations.
> They were understandably outraged at being crowded out by commercial
> interests with lots of money to spend on lobbyists.
>
> So, the the ARRL and EAA were formed to fight back! They recruited
members,
> collected dues, and hired lawyers and lobbyists of their own, to advertise
> and educate congress and the general public on the benefits to society.
Thus,
> they won the legal right to continue to pursue their hobby.
>
> Sooner or later, that's what it will come to with hobby automobiles!
Hi All;
Lee has a good point here, I imagine that the REAL EAA has, as well as
the ARRL a paid staff of, for want of a better term, lobbyists to push for
protection against anything that would stop, or limit their stuff. As we
fly under the radar, for now, but someday. as pointed out by others, we WILL
be an issue at the Big Motor Co's And they will spend big bux, although GM
seems to have spent their wad killing off EV's and themselves, in the
process? But we tax payers will hafta bail them out, anyhow, so what do they
care if they go bust?I'd like the blue collar guy get his promised pension
and med bennies, before they, GM, bomb out. There outta be a law, as one ole
comic strip used to say. You 'ole timers remember that one?
Maybe EAA can morph into a stronger lobbyist group?as time goes by and
as needed?
Seeya
Bob
> > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just for the record it is Bill Glazier. He built it with Sprague clutches
and as far as I know it's the only CVT that can go to zero. He was at one
time hoping to get it adopted into the heavy trucking industry to replace
the umpteen gears they use but it's never been commercialized.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CVT transmission for EV - long
> Has ANYONE used the CVT transmission out of the Mini or any other for
> that matter? This looks ideal for my smart car and would make the little
> woman more likely to use the car. So if anyone knows anything good or bad
> about this trans please reply on list.
I seem to recall that Bill Glickman invented a CVT and installed one in an
Enfield EV. His CVT had no slip or torque limitations to speak of.
Basically,
it had a pair of one-way clutches and cranks. He put some tiny motor in it,
drove it up a steep hill, and was able to stop halfway up, and resume
climbing up it.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus wrote:
Hi Stefan and All
"Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Part of a
previous post I wrote,
Stefan, series motors have much more torque, about 3x's, than any other type
including Shunt, PM, BLDC and AC and the only way to go, especially if you want
direct drive without very high costs. You can make the other work by throwing
money at it.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Stefan wrote
Whaza? ...how did my name get entangled in this motor biz? I simply
commented on the Alltrax -> PDA thing.
To Quote Stefan,,
>
I see. I thought all electric motors made great torque at low speed,
even the ones designed for high RPM? I'm missing something here. :(
/ /
Stefan T. Peters
Short memory Stefan? It was a post of yours today.
Yeah... can be a bit scattered sometimes. You should see me carry on
three "real" conversations at once ;)
Admitally it's from a different post but I see no reason to make too many posts for such a short message as we have way too many already and the subjects complimented each other. Others would be good to do it to so to keep the number of posts down.
For instance many of your posts are just a line or 2 and you will do 3-5 in a row that way. Better maybe to just do several in one post?. That's what cut and paste is for, isn't it?
Will take you up on that. Guess I'm just too used to "forums", where
keeping conversions separate is usually a necessity.
So I answered at the top of the this post, your question.
It's also something a broad group of new people would like, need to
know as I write for the group, not just a single person.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, The Cushman specs shows 1325lbs vehicle weight and 3900rpm's at 40mph
direct drive.
Cheers,
mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Cushman's available & stability question, comments
> Hi Mark;
>
> Hi from just-as-snowy Corrupticut!!Warmed up to a balmy 25 degrees,
now!
> Feh! As Mad magazine used to say!Sounds like you're going out East, by the
> area code? Long Island? Yeah an IDEAL EV land,grew up over there,
> Westhampton Area. Flat, no great distances to travel, most people take the
> Wrong Island Snail Road to work, as my Dad ruefully called it , as a
> commuter to Speonk, Yes, that is a real place, not making it up<g>!
>
> Sounds like a good deal, for somebody looking for a Cushman? Maybe they
> are street legal in CT EVen?I havent seen any though.Arent they pretty
> heavy?
>
> If ya overshoot LI, stop over in CT?
>
> Seeya?
>
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 8:41 AM
> Subject: Cushman's available & stability question
>
>
> > Hi from snowy VA,
> >
> > I'm heading up to NY Long Island this week-end to pick up a 01' Cushman
> 3-wheel meter maid to convert to the ZEV 99' (direct drive no tranny)
> version that Cushman made some for the EVS-14 Orlando show & get an
*honest*
> 40 MPC. Anyway Jonathan Guzzardo at (631)-291-7391said to call him if
> anyone wants another one. He has a 2000 model for about $2k with a blown
> engine. These are from the NYC Wednesday's auto auction where the cops
sell
> about 8 of these every two weeks while transitioning to Westward
Industries
> "GO-4".
> >
> > Usually the tranny's are worn but in a 72v ZEV model Cushman direct
drove
> the rear differential with a 7" GE motor & control which has also used an
> ADC 7" motor & Curtis control for 40mph speed. Field weakening gets it to
> 45mph with 12ea 6V floodees mounted 5" off the road just in front of the
> rear axle on the ZEV version (I have a photo of the batts). I met a guy
at
> the Vancouver show that said it was better to put 4 batteries behind the
> rear axle for handling & stability (falling over) but I don't know. He
made
> a small truck and had 4 mounted behind the rear axle & 8 mounted in front
of
> the rear axle. Does anyone know or had handling experience for vehicle
> stability, is Cushman right or is it better to put 4 behind the rear axle?
> >
> > Thanks, Mark
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, It has a standard rear end differential to connect the motor with a
drive shaft. I also heard the best vehicle weight split is to have 30% of
the weight on the front tire and 70% on the rear or 35% per rear tire.
Weighing the tires individually while sprinkling the batteries around sounds
like a good idea Jerry.
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: Cushman's available & stability question
> Hi Mark and All,
>
> Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi from snowy VA,
>
> I'm heading up to NY Long Island this week-end to pick up a 01' Cushman
3-wheel meter maid to convert to the ZEV 99' (direct drive no tranny)
version that Cushman made some for the EVS-14 Orlando show & get an *honest*
40 MPC. Anyway Jonathan Guzzardo at (631)-291-7391said to call him if anyone
wants another one. He has a 2000 model for about $2k with a blown engine.
These are from the NYC Wednesday's auto auction where the cops sell about 8
of these every two weeks while transitioning to Westward Industries "GO-4".
>
> Usually the tranny's are worn but in a 72v ZEV model Cushman direct drove
the rear differential with a 7" GE motor & control which has also used an
ADC 7" motor & Curtis control for 40mph speed. Field weakening gets it to
45mph with 12ea 6V floodees mounted 5" off the road just in front of the
rear axle on the ZEV version (I have a photo of the batts). I met a guy at
the Vancouver show that said it was better to put 4 batteries behind the
rear axle for handling & stability (falling over) but I don't know. He made
a small truck and had 4 mounted behind the rear axle & 8 mounted in front of
the rear axle. Does anyone know or had handling experience for vehicle
stability, is Cushman right or is it better to put 4 behind the rear axle?
>
> So does that mean you'll make your own transaxle? One from a
Citi car or a 8-12 passenger CG type transporter should work for it. Better
would be the 12 hp one from a Citi Van but they are hard to find.
> Best way to figure out where to put the batts is to weigh
each wheel with you on board, then draw it out with the batts in both
places, and calculate what the finished wheel weight will be on each. Pick
the one that is slightly biased to the front but no more han 40% of the
weight on the front wheel.
> A guess 2 batts behind the axle depending on which motor and
how you place it.
>
>
>
> Thanks, Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Shopping
> Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:48:25 -0500, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>> Interesting. So why EV oddballs and nuts still did not form a league
>> just as ham [nuts] did ARRL or aircraft nuts did EAA? People themselves
>> I'm sure are no different. Is it just not enough critical mass yet, or
>> unlike other two nuts groups, EVers step on the toes of OEM industry?
>
>The ARRL and EAA both formed when the federal government sought to pass laws
>to essentially outlaw all amateur radios (ARRL) and all private aircraft
>(EAA). In each case, the hobbyists were the ones that created these fields in
>the first place, and were responsible for most of the technical innovations.
>They were understandably outraged at being crowded out by commercial
>interests with lots of money to spend on lobbyists.
>
>So, the the ARRL and EAA were formed to fight back! They recruited members,
>collected dues, and hired lawyers and lobbyists of their own, to advertise
>and educate congress and the general public on the benefits to society. Thus,
>they won the legal right to continue to pursue their hobby.
>
>Sooner or later, that's what it will come to with hobby automobiles!
Although I'm not familiar with EAA, I imagine they are similar to us
hams. The ARRL continues to exist primarily to keep the government's
hand off us. We don't ask for anything from the government. In
return we actively provide public service in the form of emergency
communications and related services. Katrina yet again proved the
value of a large cadre of hams equipped and drilled in emergency
communications. Many hams are also members of Mars, Military
Affiliated Radio Services. In peace times, we provide free
communications to servicemen and women, including radio phone patches
to loved ones. In other times we're available for any other
communications service the military might need.
EVers could do much worse than to emulate the ham radio service. The
first step would be to pull the hands back in and quit begging for
government subsidy. (There is a small subset of hams who go begging
at the public trough but they're a small minority and are not liked by
the rest of us.) Then figure out some way to do public service in a
manner unique to electric vehicles. Maybe volunteer to provide
indigent and handicapped transportation on weekends when public
transit doesn't run. The marginal cost of operating an EV is nil,
particularly if the city provides the electricity. Then when you get
media coverage, save the greenie weenie spew and instead promote the
actual service you're providing. People will figure things out.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use 1200uf for years on 1500 hertz without any problems. Pick the low-E
SR 105C snap-ins (12ea 1000uf 200V) and solder them to 3/4" smashed flat
copper pipe and connect them to the buss with a pre-charge resistor across
your safety contactor that closes averytime you depress the peddle.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 3:28 AM
Subject: Re: I found some information on GE EV-1 Controller, but details
lacking (long)
> Where you gonna get caps rated for that duty though?? This doesn't
> sound very practical to me. Most of those caps are rated for a few amps
> of ripple. Driving at a higher current will shorten their lives
> considerably. And is the ESR low enough to be able to deliver high
> current better than the battery itself? If not it has little function
> as a filter.
>
> Is it possible to use one of the big toroidal cores to make an inductor
> that the cable can be wrapped around? An LC filter would be nice, but
> at 1.5KHz the effectiveness of any reasonably sized core seems limited.
> Same problem with the caps.
>
> Danny
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > Here is some advice that Lee Hart gave me through a few reply on the
> > list. Basically he said to parallel capacitors very close to the
> > battery input to the controller. I'm going to use 4,400uf in ten
> > caps. Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> >
> >
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> >> I have an SCR based controller in the Electravan that switches
> >> at 1500 hz with inadequate filtering on the battery side.
> >> Is it possible that the battery sees high current pulses and
> >> behaves more like it is discharging at 1000 amps than 100 and
> >> consequently has much less capacity.
> >
> >
> > Yes, it is possible; even probable. You can measure the battery ripple
> > current with a multimeter. Measure across your battery current shunt, or
> > pick two spots along one of the wires from your batteries to the
> > controller. For example, the positive terminal of the battery and the
> > other end of that wire that connects to the controller. The voltage drop
> > in this wire is proportional to current.
> >
> > Connect wires from these points to your multimeter, and go for a drive.
> > While cruising at some constant speed, measure the DC voltage and the AC
> > voltage. Their ratio is the percent ripple current. If the AC voltage is
> > more than about 10% of the DC voltage, then your batteries would benefit
> > from the addition of filter capacitors.
> >
> > These old SCR controllers usually didn't have a large input filter
> > capacitor bank. There were several reasons.
> >
> > First, they expected them to be used with huge forklift batteries, which
> > already have lots of capacitance (a "mere" 1000 amp load for these
> > batteries isn't a high rate :-) They may not have been aware that lack
> > of capacitors would be a problem for lower-capacity higher-resistance
> > batteries.
> >
> > Or they knew, but were concerned about the reliability of electrolytic
> > capacitors. Modern electrolytics are merely bad -- back then they were
> > even worse! Note that a 20-year-old SCR controller still works; if they
> > had used electrolytics, it wouldn't!
> >
> > Or, they knew and just wanted to save money.
> >
> > You can add the filter capacitors yourself. You need to connect them as
> > close to the controller's input as you can, with as short and heavy a
> > wire as possible.
> >
> > We don't have enough data to calculate a value, but it's going to take
> > thousands of microfarads. If it were me, I'd look for some surplus
> > electrolytics intended for switching power supply filtering, and put in
> > 1,000uf worth. Measure your ripple current again, and see how much it
> > dropped. Then you can guess how much more it will take.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody have any info on the Prestolite MKH 4002?
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Stefan
7 1/8 frame size. 36 volt OEM. CCWDE. 8 brushes, 4 pole.
Prestolite test specs.
VOLTS AMPS RPM TORQUE Ft. Lbs.
36 19 3250 Min. 0
36 175 1880 to 2100 17.5
It takes
MKH 2006S armature
MGP 1012S Brushes
MKH 3005AS field coils
And was manufactured for Tennant. Would this be about the Ebay posted
earlier??
I was thinking about throwing a bid for just the shaft if nothing else but I
was going to post that that will happen only if no one is looking at buying it.
No need for us to drive the cost up between us. I'd say should be a good
motor. What little I saw of the comm it looks good, but...
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
"Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Anybody have any info on the Prestolite MKH 4002?
--
Stefan T. Peters
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Lee, this has nothing to do with what I sell
I know that; you are an honest competent engineer, and not an opportunist
salesweasel. You have personally tried DC and AC systems, liked the AC system
better, and so that's what you wanted to sell.
> According to you if manufacturers are so comfortable with cheap and
> reliable DC systems produced for years, why in the world to bother
> with exotic expensive AC ones?
I think it's the customers rather than the manufacturers that prefer DC
systems. EV customers tend to be very concerned about reliability, life, and
cost. They are not as concerned with efficiency or technological
sophistication. So, they tend to prefer more conservative designs that cost
less and have a proven track record. That winds up being DC systems.
Manufacturers (and engineers in particular) often get enamored with
technology. It's more interesting and exciting. It can make products more
expensive, but it also increases profit margins. So, they tend to prefer AC
systems.
> [advantages of each] Why don't you list them? I know you like to be devil
> advocate :-)
We've tried this before, and it tends to lead to AC vs. DC holy wars :-)
But, I'll try again.
DC systems tend to be:
- cheaper
- simpler
- wider range of pack voltages
- higher overload capacity
- higher reliability
- easier to repair
AC systems tend to be:
- more efficient
- lighter
- higher maximum rpm
- no brushes
- easier to liquid cool
- easier to do regen
- failure mode is locked rather than full-on
- higher-tech and have more features
It's important to note that these are not intrinsic advantages for each
system; just what we see for the *specific examples* that are being built.
> I was talking about fundamental advantage for such an application
> as *single speed* freeway capable vehicle, which was discussed,
> where hi speed advantage of AC setup becomes too important to tip
> the scale.
It's not an open-and-shut case, Victor. You can build a transmissionless
high-speed EV with either a DC or an AC system. There are many examples of
both. Which one you pick depends on your goals. If you want it to be light,
efficient, and high-tech, and cost is not a factor, you will lean toward AC.
If you want it simple, inexpensive, and weight and efficiency aren't as
important, you'll lean toward DC.
Look at it this way. Horsepower = Speed x Torque. The maximum speed a motor
can reach is limited by its rotor construction. The maximum torque it can
produce is limited by the surface area of its rotor and the maximum magnetic
field it can produce.
An AC induction motor's torque is limited. The field is produced indirectly by
transformer action between the stator and rotor. This limits the maximum
field strength, and thus the torque. However, the rotor of an induction motor
is stronger and can withstand higher rpm. So, a design with an induction
motor favors higher rpm and lower torque.
A DC series motor directly powers both the rotor and stator. Since they are in
series (Irotor = Istator), you get a squaring effect that can produce very
high torque (the field strength is proportional to Irotor x Istator = I^2).
But the commutator is generally a weaker structure, which limits rpm. So, a
design with a DC series motor favors higher torque and lower rpm.
If you're converting an ICE vehicle into an EV, the existing transaxle ratio
is built for the ICE, which has torque-speed characteristics much more like
the DC motor. Thus, a DC system is easier; you've already got the gearbox. If
you go to AC, you'll need a special high-speed gear reducer. Not a problem;
it just adds cost.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Husted wrote:
Hey Stefan
7 1/8 frame size. 36 volt OEM. CCWDE. 8 brushes, 4 pole.
Prestolite test specs.
VOLTS AMPS RPM TORQUE Ft. Lbs.
36 19 3250 Min. 0
36 175 1880 to 2100 17.5
It takes
MKH 2006S armature
MGP 1012S Brushes
MKH 3005AS field coils
And was manufactured for Tennant. Would this be about the Ebay posted
earlier??
I was thinking about throwing a bid for just the shaft if nothing else but I
was going to post that that will happen only if no one is looking at buying it.
No need for us to drive the cost up between us. I'd say should be a good
motor. What little I saw of the comm it looks good, but...
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
"Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Anybody have any info on the Prestolite MKH 4002?
This would be for a 72-96V system in a very light little RWD Datsun.
Clue me in on the "comm it looks good, but..." part ;)
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Stefan
I didn't want to put the scare into you it's just one doesn't know what
you'll get with a used motor. From what little I can see the commentation
looks good. I'd say you'd be better off pushin the 96 Volt with it to give ya
a little more pep, but she ought to be a good motor. Like I said I was
thinking about bidding on it, but I'll bow out, so best of luck hope you get
her.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
"Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim Husted wrote:
> Hey Stefan
>
> 7 1/8 frame size. 36 volt OEM. CCWDE. 8 brushes, 4 pole.
>
> Prestolite test specs.
> VOLTS AMPS RPM TORQUE Ft. Lbs.
> 36 19 3250 Min. 0
> 36 175 1880 to 2100 17.5
>
> It takes
> MKH 2006S armature
> MGP 1012S Brushes
> MKH 3005AS field coils
> And was manufactured for Tennant. Would this be about the Ebay posted
> earlier??
> I was thinking about throwing a bid for just the shaft if nothing else but I
> was going to post that that will happen only if no one is looking at buying
> it. No need for us to drive the cost up between us. I'd say should be a good
> motor. What little I saw of the comm it looks good, but...
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> "Stefan T. Peters" wrote:
> Anybody have any info on the Prestolite MKH 4002?
>
>
This would be for a 72-96V system in a very light little RWD Datsun.
Clue me in on the "comm it looks good, but..." part ;)
--
Stefan T. Peters
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rodney, the main problem with using ultra/super capacitors, is that they
store a very small amount of energy (kw/Hrs), as compared with even a lead
acid battery. Yes, you can get lots of power out of it, but it's like
having a squirt gun with a 1 cup capacity trying to fill up a 1 gallon
squirt gun. Go to www.maxwell.com and use their Excel spreadsheet to size
out the number of ultracaps required to store the amount of kw/hrs you want,
and then price it out. AGMs will look super cheap to you then, I'm afraid.
Mark
On 12/10/05, Rodney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Jukka
>
> Interesting thought and development. I am looking at having the bank of
> Li-ion in the EV though, and using capacitors or supercapicitors to dump
> charge to them for charging up. Would this work? They are 200 Ahr cells,
> two
> sets in parallel. My thoughts are that the capacitor pack can be gradually
> charged by the grid (or alternative power means), and thus can be ready to
> rapidly charge the car when required. With the Li-ion pack in the car, I
> am
> hoping I only need to recharge once a week if that!
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
I'm getting ready to build a test circuit from this, and I'm looking at
the LM10 datasheet. Where does the datasheet tell me what the maximum
current allowed on Pin 6 is? I note that you chose 10k for R4, which seems
like it will put an awfully small current through the LED. For my first
test circuit, I was going to replace the H11A817C with a red LED, just to
prove that the circuit works at all. So I was trying to determine if Pin 6
of the LM10 was able to carry 10-20mA or so that the LED might draw.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
+ __/\/\________________________________
R1 | | |
10 ohms | > R2 | V+
1/4 watt | > 130k | pin7
| > |
| | LM10 |
| |______________________|\|
| | pin2 |-\_________
| > R3 ________________|+/ output |
| > 10k | | pin3 |/| pin6 > R4
| > |____|\ | | > 10k
C1 +_|_ | pin8 |-\__| | >
100uF ___ | ____|+/ Vref | _|_ |/ collector
25vdc | | +__|__ |/ pin1 | _\_/_ |
| | ___ 200mv | | |\ emitter
| | - |__________________| V- |
| | | pin4 | H11A817C
- ________|____|________________________|_________| optocoupler
The LM10's internal reference drives the first opamp to put 200mv on pin
3. R2 and R3 form a voltage divider to put 200mv on pin 2 when the cell
voltage is 2.8v. When the cell voltage goes below 2.8v, pin2 is less
than pin3, so the output pin6 goes high, which turns on the LED.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jody and all,
What is the maximum RPM limit of the WarP 9" ???? Is the limit because the
brushes will pull away from the commutator or the bearings won't take it?
Jody
The commutator is the limiting factor. At one point I asked Netgain
what the maximum RPM was in general for the WarP motors. I've misplaced
that e-mail, but going off of memory, it was somewhere in the 6000-7000
range. Someone on the list (can't find this e-mail either! bad day...)
recently blew up their comm with an over-rev. If at all possible, use a
controller (e.g. a Zilla) with the capability of reading a speed sensor
and limiting the output to avoid a blow-up.
One thing I came across when googling the motor blow-up thing, someone said:
Shipping has changed from $100 (a year and a half ago) to $350 each
way.
I'm not sure where that number came from. Shipping a motor in the US
typically runs in the $100 - $170 range (the lower values are for
shipping to a business address). And this month, here at EV Source, the
motor shipping is **free**!
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Free Shipping on *all* items in our store for December!
Includes Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes Plasma Boy... didn't notice the temp sensors to the main IGBTs... until
they...we long gone...
The early PFC20 chargers had these and it took some real skill and luck
to thread 4 #30 wires up through the PCB and while assembling the power
stage.
I have since gone to a wire harnes and Molex connector. The first chargers
were a attempt at connectorless and harness less assembly.
It took too much time and effort to get it right....
I am not looking forward to refreshing my skill set at that trick....
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "karmann_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: Plasma Boy's School of Charger Repair
> Apologies go to the list for a hurriedly-posted excerpt from my blog.
> As you might have guessed, it was about repairing the shipping damage
> to a used PFC 20. Thanks again to John for blowing something up so I
> didn't have to! I'm learning more EVery day. ;-)
> Jay
> www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Solar Assisted Electric Vehicle Ford Escort Car
Item number: 6023166500
The description speaks for itself. I counted 13 x 6 V batteries ... Looks
underpowered and in need of some serious TLC. I wouldn't pay over $800 for it.
The shipping charge is pretty reasonable. Needs major work! Maybe the motor
and adapter are OK and could be put into a different 80's Escort to create a
Jet Industries look-a-like. Controller - ??? Charger - ??? Only 78 V???
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:23 AM 16/12/05 -0500, Jody wrote:
What is the maximum RPM limit of the WarP 9" ???? Is the limit because the
brushes will pull away from the commutator or the bearings won't take it?
Hi Jody
Your question reveals a misconception or a misunderstanding you seem to
have with brush/commutator assembly. If the commutator is not perfectly
round, or not 'true' to the rotation of the rotor, the brushes will bounce
at speed, arc and die. This will happen very quickly, so a great deal of
effort is placed in making sure that the brushes do not bounce, i.e. the
commutator is truly round.
Once the brushes are running on a round commutator, sheer speed cannot harm
them, there is no centrifical or other forces being put onto the to the
brushes from the comutator. There comes a point where with enough volts and
enough amps, the gaps between the commutator bars cannot clear the energy
and then an arc occurrs that goes brush-to-brush over the surface of the
commutator.
The commutator itself is the weakest link. It IS affected by centrifical
force, so that high RPMs are trying very hard to throw the commutator (and
the windings, but they are held in a different, stronger, manner) away from
the rotor.
The voltage and power requirements of the commutator prevents the
commutator from being made in really small diameters, so we will always
have this limitation, one way or another.
The limits to a commutators' RPMs are due to the material that it is
constructed from. In ye olde days of double-breasted sandshoes and leather
flywheels (as my electronics instructor of 20-odd years ago used to put it)
commutators were constructed mechanically. The commutator bars were
insulated with mica sheet and held in place by steel rings each end. The
limit on RPMs with this method is when the copper of the bar 'bows out'
enough to allow the mica to come loose or cause brush problems, or the
copper bar breaks.
In more recent decades, commutator bars are held in by a hard plastic of
some description - generally 'bakelite' or a similar product. If this gets
too hot, or exceeds its' mechanical strength, a single bar is loosened
first, and nothing is there to stop it flying out, so EVERYTHING gets
smashed, brush gear, all the other comm bars (which as soon as the first
bar is loose quickly follow).
Madman pointed out on-list a couple of years ago that racer-EVers had
placed kevlar banding onto their commutators to prevent this wholesale
destruction in the event of comm failiure. I don't know how common this
method is, or how effective it is, so if anyone (Rich?) knows, please post
it. Until Jim Husted recognised my commutator for a steel-ring type, I had
planned on Kevlar banding my commutator, but there would be no benefit.
Hope this helps
James
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--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I was assuming that "charge profile" referred to the CC/CV
> charge profile graph, that shows voltage/current (Y) and time
> (X).
Correct.
> A change in either current/voltage or time would
> constitute a different profile. (at least they would look
> different anyways at the same scale).
No. A change in current or voltage or time would not change the shape
of the plot of current and voltage vs time; it would still exhibit the
same distinct characteristic shape of a CC/CV profile.
> Is there a formal definition "charge profile" or "charge
> profile setpoints"?
I can't point you to any "formal" definition, though if I were to dig I
expect I could probably find one lurking somewhere in the BCI
literature.
The profile refers to the particular sequence of steps that the charger
progresses through from start of charge to finish of charge. There is a
formal "language" for describing charge profiles, for example:
I = a constant current phase
U = a constant voltage phase
W = a constant power phase
There are also 'o' and 'a' qualifiers that indicate if the phase
terminates automatically, or continues, etc. (e.g. IUIa), and when a
profile includes multiple I or U phases subscripts/numbers are used to
distinguish between the phases (e.g. I1I2UI3).
So, a typical 3 step profile is IUI; that is constant current bulk,
constant voltage absorption, and constant current finish. Notice that
nowhere is the actual bulk or finish current defined, nor is the
absorption voltage defined. Any charger that implements this IUI
sequence is performing the same charge profile, regardless of the
precise voltage and current setpoints it may use.
A specific example is that a PFC charger (without regs) does an IU
profile; period. It doesn't matter what you set the voltage or current
limits to for your particular battery; the profile is still IU. You may
set your voltage and current limits so your PFCxx will charge your pack
of gels properly, and I set mine to charge my AGMs and someone else sets
a compeletely different set of limits to charge their floodeds properly,
but we are all using the same IU profile to charge our batteries.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thank you,
Bill vesely
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I have for sale an Electro Automotive Voltsporsche AC conversion kit for a
Porsche 914. This is an AC version of the DC conversion kit that Electro
Automotive has produced for many years, and utilizes a
Solectria/Azure Dynamics motor and controller. It offers improved efficiency
over the DC system, and out-of-the-box regenerative braking. Everything
necessary for the conversion is included in the kit, with the exception of
the batteries.
More details about the kit are available on Electro Automotive's web site:
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/ackits.shtml
I ordered this kit 3+ months ago planning to convert a 914. Unfortunately,
the new home my wife and I are building has run somewhat over budget, and
we're now forced to choose between scrapping the rooftop photovoltaic system
planned for the new house, or postponing the the electric 914 project and
trying to recoup our cost for the kit. The solar system has won out, so the
kit is up for sale.
The kit is unused, new in box. I've already received the motor and controller
at my place in Oakland, CA. Most of the rest of the kit is ready to be
shipped from Electro Automotive in Felton, CA.
Our cost for the kit was $13292, which included tax and shipping. However,
I'm flexible on the price. I'd like to be able to build our rooftop PV system
and see this kit go to good use, rather than have it sit unused in our garage,
even if that means selling it at loss.
You'll also get to "cut in line" and have the kit now, rather than waiting
the 3+ months lead time for a new order.
Jim Meehan
Oakland, CA
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jay,
I am a lurker on the EVDL and would like to recommend that you do an
interview with Ray Eddings of VolksBash Radio.
http://www.monksmedia1.com/volksbash.php It is a relatively new show
but has a good following already. It concentrates on racing and
performance along with the "scene". Since you plan on racing the
Karmann, it might draw some interest. Ray is a poster on alot of the
VW forums which will be the easiest way to get ahold of him.
Do you have any objections if I send your name his way?
Lyle Sloan
PS Do you have any slips yet? This will help peak his interest.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why send unsubscribe emails to the list?
It is a great list! Why unsubscribe?
Unsubscribe at the same place where you subscribe!
At http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Vesely" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:14 PM
Subject: unsubcribe
> thank you,
> Bill vesely
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
Stefan wrote:
The *available* bandwith is actually around 3Mb/s, but given that that
is costing us just over $200/Mb a month (wholesale), we want to be sure
this "catches on" before dedicating any more to this particular server.
Stefan T. Peters
Who are the 'us'? I'm not sure I understand your above statement about the
cost. Could you please elaborate a little more? Who is actually paying for the
site?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.TEVA2.com
For now, it is being paid by Electronic Zombie Corp. I am working with
the Seattle EVA to facilitate a legal donation of the server and it's
contents to an appropriate non-profit group. The board of directors have
committed to appropriating one year of bandwidth costs at specific
levels. Where is goes from there depends on the response from the EV
community and it's various agencies. I am willing to personally "carry
the torch" for awhile longer if need be, but I'm trying my best not to
let it come to that... ;)
--
Stefan T. Peters
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