EV Digest 5023
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Clutchless shift - clarifying
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Performance Discrepancies / Questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: I found some information on GE EV-1 Controller, but details lacking
(long)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Link 10 Digital Dash - take to EVForge?
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Can AC conversion be done cheaply?
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) OTW Electrical Question
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: OTW Electrical Question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by "Steve Arlint" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OTW Electrical Question
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Maxing out a Zilla (crazy idea)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: OTW Electrical Question
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: PID control
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OTW Electrical Question
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) 91 metro manuals
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Prestolite Motor Question
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: FW: new btteries
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) gathering info about AC conversion
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: gathering info about AC conversion
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) New Radio Show -- "This New Car"
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) NEDRA Power of DC June 3
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Scooter to Bicycle sprockets
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: "The Motor Will Splode".....an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Victor, I don't know much about this stuff, but how about a low-ohm
> variable resistor or transistor connected across the armature?
> Normally, it's open, but when you want to slow the motor, you close it.
Yes, this will work to slow down a series motor. It's called dynamic braking.
You can do it by switching a fixed resistor across the armature and
controlling the field current with the regular PWM controller. As this
resistor approaches a short circuit, you can get some pretty amazing braking
currents!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Today, I am seeing EV's (like the Rav4) with 35,000-40,000 miles on
> a battery pack and still going, range of 80 + miles, performance that
> actually keeps up with traffic, etc. Basically, a very useful, high
> performance, reliable, long range, practical car - with an electric motor.
>
> Then, there is one of my old cars - the 1979 Chrysler ETV-1... 108V,
> 18 6V golf cart batteries, sepex DC motor, PWM controller, and single
> speed gearbox. 75 MPH top speed, 70 mile range, very good acceleration.
>
> There are... people who custom engineered and built excellent examples of
> EVs. I commend the people who made those, and all those others striving
> to do the same.
> But, honestly, if I look at the vehicles for sale, they typically have
> very low miles, have been through several battery packs already, and
> the performance just isn't there.
>
> So, my question is... What happened? Where are these cars? Why can't we
> duplicate them? If we could, why don't I see cars like these on the
> trading post and e-bay and for that matter in my garage?
The simple answer is, there are good EVs and bad EVs. The good EVs are the
ones that people want to keep -- they don't want to sell them! The bad EVs
are the ones that people want to sell. That's why you see more "clunkers" for
sale.
The more complicated question is, "Why aren't there more good EVs?" I think
this is due to a number of factors.
Often, the only difference between a good EV and a bad EV is the attention to
detail. The builder lacks skill or experience, and so made some fundamentally
bad choices. This leads to some "weak links" in the design. He got 9 out of
10 things right, but that one weakness crippled the whole car. Maybe he
picked the wrong batteries; or the wrong motor; or controller; or he didn't
pay attention to efficiciency, or the quality of construction was so poor
that it broke down constantly. In any case; just one big mistake, and the car
is a failure.
I think there is a tendency to strive for perfection in every area at once.
That's wonderful if you succeed; but it's more likely that you will lack
skill in one or more areas, and so will fail.
In contrast, I think the best EVs are the ones where the builder didn't try to
maximize everything at once. He compromised, and made sure that there were no
weak links. Nothing is perfect, but nothing is a critical failure, either.
The key to building a successful EV is to LEARN FROM OTHERS!!! Copy what
works, and avoid what doesn't. You have to build on the success (and
failures) of others.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>> Here is some advice that Lee Hart gave me through a few reply on the
>> list. Basically he said to parallel capacitors very close to the
>> battery input to the controller. I'm going to use 4,400uf in ten
>> caps.
Danny Miller replied:
> Where you gonna get caps rated for that duty though? This doesn't
> sound very practical to me. Most of those caps are rated for a few
> amps of ripple.
It's standard practice on all modern controllers. They use tens of big
electrolytics in parallel to get enough ripple current rating.
> Driving at a higher current will shorten their lives considerably.
Yep; it does! The electrolytics are the least reliable parts of a controller.
They limit the life to a couple thousand hours or so of operation. But if you
only drive your EV an hour or less a day, that might still last 10 years.
Industrial vehicles that have to operate 8 hours a day, every day, don't use
electrolytics; they are more likely to use big oil-filled or plastic film
capacitors instead; they have better ESR and ripple current specs and an
indefinite life. That's why you can find 30-year-old GE EV1 controllers that
still work (no electrolytics).
> Is it possible to use one of the big toroidal cores to make an inductor
> that the cable can be wrapped around? An LC filter would be nice, but
> at 1.5KHz the effectiveness of any reasonably sized core seems limited.
> Same problem with the caps.
No; the idea is to provide a LOW impedance source for the pulsating current
that the controller draws from the battery. If the impedance across the
battery+capacitor isn't low enough, you get excessive voltage spikes as the
controller PWM switches on/off. The spikes destroy the transistors and
diodes.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
oops, having a bad day at the keyboard... didn't reply to the email
that I was reading.... :^(
my apologies...
dave
Dave wrote:
is this on the Hunt's Point property that used to be owned by
hyrdo-plane great Stan Sayers? was that his name. heard about on the
radio this morning.
looks like mobile home trash to me :^)
Don Cameron wrote:
The EVDL is a little too cluttered as it is. The technical details
of the
Link 10 digital dash will speak about how to write Java code and
interface
with RS-232. The Evforg.Net is a well organized web -based forum
(and other
things). Anyone can join.
Nomuch different than Jerry taking the Freedom EV to Evproduction.org
or Lee
et all discussing the EVilBus on evtech lists - just keeps the focus
of this
list on the rure ev topics.
We have already had a good start, come and see. evforge.net
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Strubhar
Sent: December 23, 2005 6:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Link 10 Digital Dash - take to EVForge?
Please, keep it here for the benefit of all of us!!!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Link 10 Digital Dash - take to EVForge?
Rather than clutter the already overloaded EVDL with the discussion
on the
Link 10 Digital Dash, might I suggest we try out the discussion
forum on
evforge.net?
I have **lots** of experience designing software systems and would
like to
discuss using the MVC w SOA pattern for the java code. I do not
think this
is particularly interesting to other EVers.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have some time to work on developing a basic PWM DC motor controller.
> I am not looking for all the frills, just something basic with the
> critical safety features. The target performance is 144 V / 600 A.
> It turns out that this may be more difficult than I originally thought.
It always is! Get a bucket to catch the parts you blow up; when it is full,
you're close to done :-)
> I was under the impression that there are off the shelf motor control
> chips and all I basically had to do was buy the parts and spend "a lot"
> of time assembling it and testing it. So far, I haven't found that to
> be the case.
There aren't any "EV motor controller chips" because there is no market for
them. But there *are* hundreds of PWM switching regulator chips, almost any
of which can be used successfully.
> I read Bob Brant's book about 8 years ago, but I figure that all of
> those references are now obsolete, and that much better technology is
> now available.
The data is still good; only the specific details have changed.
> It was recently suggested that I use the Freescle MC68HC908QY4 IC.
I would avoid using a micro, except perhaps as a remotely-mounted system
monitor. The noise levels are so high, and the consequences of a computer
"crash" so hideous that it is better to keep them OUT of the main control
loop.
The best teacher is to buy a dead controller or two, and see how they are
built. Copy what works, and avoid what doesn't. Be aware that there are lots
of subtleties! Copy things even if you can't see any reason why they did it
that way.
Build it so it's easy to change. You will make lots of mistakes, and so want
your prototype to be very easy to repair and modify.
To me, the most straightforward approach is to get a BIG transistor+diode
module, rated for at least 200v and 600a. This avoids all the hard work of
parallelling dozens of inadequate devices. Drive it with the stiffest gate
driver IC you can find. Drive that with a standard switching regulator chip.
Include a shunt, and use the chip's current feedback to limit current. Also
include sensing/limiting/shutdown for overtemperature, overvoltage,
undervoltage, and Vsat detection.
A pot can operate this setup directly. If you want a micro, just use it to
control the pot input to this "power section".
> As far as the algorithm goes, I was going to use:
> First, a fixed pulse width with a variable time delay between pulses
This works well, but produces acoustic noise (you can hear it).
> That is pretty much it, but I may also need to consider some way to detect
> 1. Welded contactor
> 2. FET failure - full open
This is where a micro can be useful.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes it is a work in progress, and yes when it is done I will show how well
it works. :-)
The transmission is somewhat special as it is being donated by a 2001 VW
beetle. I don't remember the range of years but there are certain year
beetles that have this transmission, a final drive ratio of 4.875 to 1 and
electric solenoid shift. These transmissions have a shift computer (ebay
sale here) which will be replaced with my own PIC based shift control
module. At this time I am working on shifting at engine speed for an up
shift and for down shifting, to aid regeneration, engine speed and brake
light sensing. With normal diameter tires and in final drive the numbers
work out to be just under 5,000 rpm at 65 mph. I was going to use the pump
in the transmission while moving and an auxiliary pump when stopped but
after discussion with my transmission guy I will be using an electric pump
full time. There is way too much energy waist using the built in pump that
when off idle is almost always bleeding pressure off the regulator.
Yes I have hills, what's the point?? Maybe this is something I will find out
but until now everyone says the electric motor has a flat line torque curve.
Be it that I am wrong the beauty of using a PIC is that I can read the
current drawn by the motor, look at the rpms of the motor and downshift as
needed. Sounds like a few hours of code. When done, if needed it will be
just like a vacuum modulator on an ICE.
Comments please, I love the learning process.
Mark Grasser
Subject: Re: Can AC conversion be done cheaply?
At 08:04 PM 12/22/05 -0500, you wrote:
My conversion is also an automatic, though a VW golf, a Geo is a little
too much sacrifice for me. The inefficiency is almost all in the torque
converter. I am eliminating the torque converter and connecting the DC
drive motor directly to the input shaft of the transmission. I am using
2nd and 3rd gears forward and using reverse. This will eliminate the
reversing contactor and also eliminates running the DC motor in the
reverse direction with the "way-wrong" brush timing.
Is this a finished running vehicle, or work in progress? What are you
doing to keep pump pressure up at a stoplight, when there is no engine
idling? Do you have hills where you live? If so, how are you correcting
for the shift points that will not match the needs of the DC motor?
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a total what-if, so bear with me please...
What effect would paralleling a 16VDC/200AMP power source with a
48VDC/50AMP power source going into a DC series motor?
(Assuming you use diodes if/where needed)
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan T. Peters [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> This is a total what-if, so bear with me please...
>
> What effect would paralleling a 16VDC/200AMP power source with a
> 48VDC/50AMP power source going into a DC series motor?
> (Assuming you use diodes if/where needed)
Better start-up torque. Until the motor back-EMF reaches 16V, you will
have 250A to feed the motor, but once the EMF exceeds 16V, the 16V
supply will stop contributing current. Above 16V only the 48V supply
will supply current, so you have just 50A available.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings,
The controller that I and two other guys are building for our senior design
project very closely follows the approach that was just outlined by Lee Hart,
and it works. It is a controller with regen for a PM DC motor. We do use a
PIC microcontroller in the main feedback loop. We have had no problems at upto
80 Amps. The micro has the function of interfacing to a hall effect based
throttle (BMW's fly-by-wire gas pedal) and setting the according PWM duty
cycle. It also takes in current, voltage, and rpm values and uses them for
feedback. This is very useful because of the PICs hardware multiplier (makes
it easy for gauges). Now, the most that we have run this system at is 120V @
80 Amps. The micro works just fine in this case. It is also isolated from any
of the power components including the gate drivers.
We have not blown up any parts following this method.......Yet.
If you are curious on our project please visit:
http://lewis.up.edu/EGR/SRDesign06/umpqua/
Next semester's plan is to set up the gauges, finish the feedback circuitry and
employ many safety features (failsafe if the micro fails and other things).
VR,
STEVEN ARLINT
University of Portland
Electrical Engineering Student.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have some time to work on developing a basic PWM DC motor controller.
> I am not looking for all the frills, just something basic with the
> critical safety features. The target performance is 144 V / 600 A.
> It turns out that this may be more difficult than I originally thought.
It always is! Get a bucket to catch the parts you blow up; when it is full,
you're close to done :-)
> I was under the impression that there are off the shelf motor control
> chips and all I basically had to do was buy the parts and spend "a lot"
> of time assembling it and testing it. So far, I haven't found that to
> be the case.
There aren't any "EV motor controller chips" because there is no market for
them. But there *are* hundreds of PWM switching regulator chips, almost any
of which can be used successfully.
> I read Bob Brant's book about 8 years ago, but I figure that all of
> those references are now obsolete, and that much better technology is
> now available.
The data is still good; only the specific details have changed.
> It was recently suggested that I use the Freescle MC68HC908QY4 IC.
I would avoid using a micro, except perhaps as a remotely-mounted system
monitor. The noise levels are so high, and the consequences of a computer
"crash" so hideous that it is better to keep them OUT of the main control
loop.
The best teacher is to buy a dead controller or two, and see how they are
built. Copy what works, and avoid what doesn't. Be aware that there are lots
of subtleties! Copy things even if you can't see any reason why they did it
that way.
Build it so it's easy to change. You will make lots of mistakes, and so want
your prototype to be very easy to repair and modify.
To me, the most straightforward approach is to get a BIG transistor+diode
module, rated for at least 200v and 600a. This avoids all the hard work of
parallelling dozens of inadequate devices. Drive it with the stiffest gate
driver IC you can find. Drive that with a standard switching regulator chip.
Include a shunt, and use the chip's current feedback to limit current. Also
include sensing/limiting/shutdown for overtemperature, overvoltage,
undervoltage, and Vsat detection.
A pot can operate this setup directly. If you want a micro, just use it to
control the pot input to this "power section".
> As far as the algorithm goes, I was going to use:
> First, a fixed pulse width with a variable time delay between pulses
This works well, but produces acoustic noise (you can hear it).
> That is pretty much it, but I may also need to consider some way to detect
> 1. Welded contactor
> 2. FET failure - full open
This is where a micro can be useful.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
--
_______________________________________________
Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.linuxmail.org
This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox.
Powered by Outblaze
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:22 PM 23/12/05 -0800, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
This is a total what-if, so bear with me please...
What effect would paralleling a 16VDC/200AMP power source with a
48VDC/50AMP power source going into a DC series motor?
(Assuming you use diodes if/where needed)
Hi Stefan -and all
Well, that depends. Are your power sources both current limited? If not,
then don't try it as the magic smoke will leak out, sooner or later.
On first principles, if both are *pure DC* sources, you will get 250A up to
16V (lots of start-up torque, 250A x 16V = 4000W) and then rapidly fall
back to 50A, and if this is not too little current for the applied load
(50A x 17V is 850Watts, around 1hp will be delivered), will allow the motor
to rev up to somewhere above the RPM that the source comes out of current
limit or the dynamics of the load have exceeded the delivered hp (50A x 20V
= 1000W, 50A x 30V = 1500W, etc).
So lets assume that they are both current limited, and at the power levels
you are describing are modern PWM switching controllers, so they will be
switching at somewhere around 15 to 20kHz. During the off-time of BOTH
controllers, the freewheel diodes in both controllers will probably be put
into conduction, and the blocking diodes will also be in conduction (by the
motor loop current continuing to flow).
However, the on-times will not be synchronised. Once the DC motor is
running at a speed that requires more than 16V, the 16V supply will not be
able to drive into the motor loop, so the 48V supply will be the only one
doing anything.
Below 16V is where it becomes .. interesting. Depending on the frewheel
diodes selected, wether or not the controllers are motor loop current
limited, etc, is where it may become expensive.
Follows are some of the possibilities that I can see off the top of my head:
Possibility 1) The 48V controller used Schottky diodes for freewheel
diodes, so it hogs the motor loop current - and frags its' diodes, since
the combined current is 5x that it was designed for.
Possibility 2) The 16V one has schottky diodes, or diodes of similar type
to the 48V one and so the 16V one is over driven up to 1.25 times, or they
play well together, sharing in proportion.
Possibility 3) During the on-time of one controller and the off-time of the
other, one or both controllers see a condition that puts them into fault
and one or both shuts down.
Possibility 4, 5, 6... depends on the designs of the controllers, the
diodes in the circuits, the motor inductance etc..
So it depends. What are your sources, what is your load characteristics, etc?
Hope this helps
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris wrote:
The problem I can see is that the motor will still see
the battery pack *peak* voltages, during the on-time
of the pulse cycles, possibly initiating flash-overs.
This is not the way these type of converters typically
work, though I must admit I have never taken a reading
from a Zilla, nor seen even a block diagram.
Otmar is really the person to confirm this,
Hello All,
Just a quick reply since I am very busy relocating my life to Corvallis Oregon.
Chris is right, the motor does see the peak battery voltage.
True the Zilla is a Buck converter, but the motor is the inductor in
the circuit.
Although a XHV Zilla would be possible, the current capacity would be
greatly reduced. At that point you would want to go to 1000V to get
similar power.
A preregulator to the Zilla would allow you to max it out, but would
cost more than the Zilla itself.
As I see it the issue is the battery sag. If you have stiffer
batteries, then you can make better use of the Zilla. As the Zilla is
currently designed, the motors can be maxed out at 170V while a 348V
battery is being maxed out by being pulled to half voltage. Since the
battery is the heaviest part, this seems ideal to me for drag racing.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
At 01:22 PM 23/12/05 -0800, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
This is a total what-if, so bear with me please...
What effect would paralleling a 16VDC/200AMP power source with a
48VDC/50AMP power source going into a DC series motor?
(Assuming you use diodes if/where needed)
Hi Stefan -and all
Well, that depends. Are your power sources both current limited? If
not, then don't try it as the magic smoke will leak out, sooner or later.
On first principles, if both are *pure DC* sources, you will get 250A
up to 16V (lots of start-up torque, 250A x 16V = 4000W) and then
rapidly fall back to 50A, and if this is not too little current for
the applied load (50A x 17V is 850Watts, around 1hp will be
delivered), will allow the motor to rev up to somewhere above the RPM
that the source comes out of current limit or the dynamics of the load
have exceeded the delivered hp (50A x 20V = 1000W, 50A x 30V = 1500W,
etc).
So lets assume that they are both current limited, and at the power
levels you are describing are modern PWM switching controllers, so
they will be switching at somewhere around 15 to 20kHz. During the
off-time of BOTH controllers, the freewheel diodes in both controllers
will probably be put into conduction, and the blocking diodes will
also be in conduction (by the motor loop current continuing to flow).
However, the on-times will not be synchronised. Once the DC motor is
running at a speed that requires more than 16V, the 16V supply will
not be able to drive into the motor loop, so the 48V supply will be
the only one doing anything.
Below 16V is where it becomes .. interesting. Depending on the
frewheel diodes selected, wether or not the controllers are motor loop
current limited, etc, is where it may become expensive.
Follows are some of the possibilities that I can see off the top of my
head:
Possibility 1) The 48V controller used Schottky diodes for freewheel
diodes, so it hogs the motor loop current - and frags its' diodes,
since the combined current is 5x that it was designed for.
Possibility 2) The 16V one has schottky diodes, or diodes of similar
type to the 48V one and so the 16V one is over driven up to 1.25
times, or they play well together, sharing in proportion.
Possibility 3) During the on-time of one controller and the off-time
of the other, one or both controllers see a condition that puts them
into fault and one or both shuts down.
Possibility 4, 5, 6... depends on the designs of the controllers, the
diodes in the circuits, the motor inductance etc..
So it depends. What are your sources, what is your load
characteristics, etc?
Hope this helps
James
In this hypothetical situation, the higher voltage is the PWM
controller. The lower voltage would be true DC, just switchable.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very good description! ( as usually can be had from lee) I am gonna save
this one.
I would say "bang on" :-) Espicially noteing the aspect of changing
loads like hills. Most of our equipment is heating a 500 lb piece of
steel so PID works great. Where it fails is the small hot tips and
nozzles if their load is disturbed. We have a particular portable
controller with fuzzy logic that works much better with changing molds.
Ironically I have one of those "Advanced" air conditioners. the
condensor fan,evaporator fan are variable speed driven by variable freq
drive. 2 speed compressor and variable output heater. The thermostat
measures air temp, wall temp and uses 4 days of history to develop the
duty cycle command and set the approach control.
too bad it is broken, again. The @#$#@ $1000 PWM driven 1/10 hp
condensor fan motor is out again. The epoxy filled piggyback PWM drive
board is toast again. I need to re-source this or figure out how to get
the potting off so I can repair it. hint hint
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:11 PM 23/12/05 -0800, Stefan wrote:
James Massey wrote:
At 01:22 PM 23/12/05 -0800, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
This is a total what-if, so bear with me please...
What effect would paralleling a 16VDC/200AMP power source with a
48VDC/50AMP power source going into a DC series motor?
(Assuming you use diodes if/where needed)
<snip>
In this hypothetical situation, the higher voltage is the PWM controller.
The lower voltage would be true DC, just switchable.
Well, each time the PWM fired, the lower voltage power supply diode would
be reverse biased, so you probably wouldn't gain much, but that'd probably
play together OK, so if whatever you're thinking of eventuates, it
shouldn't hurt to give it a go.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am interested if the manuals are still available ... I am converting
a 91 Metro and drive one also .....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Husted wrote:
Hey Stefan
7 1/8 frame size. 36 volt OEM. CCWDE. 8 brushes, 4 pole.
Prestolite test specs.
VOLTS AMPS RPM TORQUE Ft. Lbs.
36 19 3250 Min. 0
36 175 1880 to 2100 17.5
It takes
MKH 2006S armature
MGP 1012S Brushes
MKH 3005AS field coils
And was manufactured for Tennant. Would this be about the Ebay posted
earlier??
I was thinking about throwing a bid for just the shaft if nothing else but I
was going to post that that will happen only if no one is looking at buying it.
No need for us to drive the cost up between us. I'd say should be a good
motor. What little I saw of the comm it looks good, but...
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
"Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Anybody have any info on the Prestolite MKH 4002?
Well, it's being shipped. Can't wait to clean the bugger off and see how
it runs!
I'm thinking of that new TSE controller... 96V/600A should be nice and
peppy in my little roadster. Maybe eight Genesis (Hawker) NP100-12
batteries? At $100 each with 55AH at the 1 hour rate, that's $0.66 a WH,
or $150 a KWh. Anybody think those bats are good mojo?
Now where might I get some of those motor brushes? I figure it's better
to get a set *now*, because parts only get rarer with time. ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 21 Dec 2005 at 20:19, jmygann wrote:
> Anyone have an opinion on the Deka 8G31 batteries ?
Solectria used 8G27s in the Forces and 8G24s in pickups. They were (and
are) long-lived and reliable, which is what Solectria's clients apparently
wanted above all. They are very consistent, high quality batteries.
However, their usable capacity isn't as high as some other batteries'.
> Apparently this is what the new Xebra will be using .....
That's a bit surprising. Isn't the Xebra being built by a Chinese auto
manufacturer? I'd expect them to fit cheap Chinese batteries, not
(relatively) expensive ones from Pennsylvania. Are they shipping them over
without batteries?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I intend to build an EV using AC. So far, I've found electroauto and metric
mind. Are there others?
ElectroAuto sells Solectria stuff. Isn't Solectria out of business? Has
anyone bought this system?
MetricMind sells Siemens - they're definitely still in business. But lots more
expensive and comes with no adapter. Anyone bought this system?
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you check the EVAlbum and the list archives you will find quite a few
people who have purchased the Siemens system. As far as I know all of the
Siemens users are very happy with their systems.
I have not heard of a Solectria conversion, but best to talk with Electro
Auto about this.
On my site I have listed a few other Siemens users (there are many more), as
well as the reasons I selected AC and Siemens for the New Beetle project.
If you check the archive, about 6-8 months ago a survey was taken of other
AC manufacturers. There are a few, but not too many sell to hobbyists, or
are just research companies.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dale Curren
Sent: December 24, 2005 6:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: gathering info about AC conversion
I intend to build an EV using AC. So far, I've found electroauto and metric
mind. Are there others?
ElectroAuto sells Solectria stuff. Isn't Solectria out of business? Has
anyone bought this system?
MetricMind sells Siemens - they're definitely still in business. But lots
more expensive and comes with no adapter. Anyone bought this system?
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From Steven Jones-D'Agostino
***This New Car***
Promoting clean, mean driving machines
*December 24, 2005
For Immediate Release*
Contact: Steven Jones-D'Agostino
508.791.0459 office
508.930.8675 cell
508.757.2566 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
WICN/90.5 FM Revs Up For **Weekly Radio Show** On
Hybrids & Alternative-Fuel Vehicles
*Worcester, MA* - WICN/90.5 FM <http://www.WICN.org>, the NPR affiliate serving
Central New England, presents *"This New Car: Promoting Clean, Mean Driving
Machines,"* a new 13-week series starting January 8, 2006. "This New Car," a
special focus on WICN's weekly 30-minute program, /The Business Beat/
<http://www.WICN.org/programs/archive.htm>, is a roundtable discussion on
hybrid and alternative-fuel vehicles. "This New Car" is sponsored exclusively
by Westboro Toyota <http://www.westborotoyota.com> in Westboro, MA.
"This New Car" will be broadcast and webcast Sundays at 10 p.m. (Eastern) on
WICN and in MP3 format at WICN.org <http://www.WICN.org>. To hear a 4-minute,
MP3 audio clip of the January 8 show, "Pros and cons of hybrid vehicles,"
*CLICK HERE* <http://www.BestRateOfClimb.com/TNC.htm>.
With our dependence on high-priced fuel and environmental concerns, "This New
Car" comes at the perfect time to educate consumers. "This New Car" makes the
technology understandable and interesting not only for the gear head, but also
for the person interested in saving money and making the environment safer for
future generations.
Join these lively, informative discussions on such hot topics as hybrids,
alternative fuels, hydrogen combustion, fuel cells, electric and plug-in
vehicles and new-technology vehicles, to name a few*.**** Steve D'Agostino*,
host of /The Business Beat/ on WICN since 1995 and principal of Best Rate Of
Climb <http://www.bestrateofclimb.com> in Worcester, MA, moderates an expert
panel featuring:
* *Jim Dunn* of the NASA Center for Technology Commercialization
<http://www.CTC.org> in Westboro, MA.
* *Gilles Labelle* of Westboro Toyota's Hybrid Center of
Massachusetts <http://www.hybridcenterma.com> in Westboro, MA.
* *Craig Van Batenburg* of the Automotive Career Development Center
<http://www.auto-careers.org> in Worcester, MA.
Attached in JPEG format is a 4"x6", 200-dots-per-inch photo of, left to right,
Craig Van Batenburg, Steve D'Agostino, Jim Dunn and Gilles Labelle.
*Coming up on "This New Car:"*
January 15 Pros and cons of alternative-fuel vehicles
January 22 Pros and cons of hydrogen-combustion vehicles
January 29 Pros and cons of fuel-cell vehicles
February 5 Pros and cons of electric and plug-in vehicles
February 12 New-technology vehicles
February 19 What makes a hybrid a hybrid?
February 26 Saving fuel with computers
March 5 Can Detroit be hybridized?
March 12 What is a "green" vehicle and do average consumers really care?
March 19 Can "green" vehicles save the planet?
March 26 Are the state and federal governments doing enough to
promote and support "green" vehicles?
April 2 Does everyone need to own a vehicle?
To hear last month's /Business Beat/ shows, in MP3 format, hit this link, _WICN
Archive_ <http://www.wicn.org/programs/archive.htm>, and scroll down to the
/Business Beat/ section. You can load the audio on iPods or other portable MP3
players. You can open MP3 podcasts with iTunes <http://www.apple.com/itunes/>,
Musicmatch Jukebox <http://www.musicmatch.com>, Real Player
<http://www.real.com>, WinAmp <http://www.winamp.com> and Windows Media Player
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/mp10/>.
Steven Jones-D'Agostino
Principal
Best Rate Of Climb
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
508.791.0459 office
508.930.8675 cell
508.757.2566 fax
www.BestRateOf/Climb.com
*Best rate of climb is the most altitude in the shortest time*
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
I just spoke with the Mason-Dixon track this past week. Our Power of DC
event is scheduled for Saturday, June 3, 2006 at 12:00 noon.
So far the NEDRA schedule for 2006 is filling up.
January 20 and 21
NEDRA Battery Beach Burnout in West Palm Beach Florida
Featuring an Autocross and Show and Shine
Organized by Shawn Waggoner
May 13
NEDRA High Voltage Nationals at the Route 66 Dragway in Joliet, Illinois
Held in conjunction with the 5th EVer EAA Chapter's Conferfence
Organized by John Emde and the Fox Valley EAA
June 3
NEDRA Power of DC at Mason Dixon Dragway in Hagerstown, Maryland
Organized by Chip Gribben and EVA/DC
Summer/Fall (date not yet announced)
NEDRA Wayland Invitational at the Portland International Raceway
Organized by John Wayland
Merry Christmas!!
Chip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes"
> bore to fit that & I drill the holes. Maybe a couple of welds to hold it
> together and walla. Any size sprocket could go on the back wheel.
Anybody
> done that or have a better idea on how to put a big sprocket on a bicycle?
Hi Lawrence,
The best hubs I have ever seen for this type of application are the old
elongated 10 speed bike hubs. They have the large holes already formed in
between the spokes and are perfect for drilling through a sprocket face to
connect the large sprocket with the hubs with bolts/nuts/flat and lock
washers.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/176n.jpg
I really wouldn't want to weld to any hub myself, the metal's too thin to
begin with. Warping and fatigue may prove to be catastrophific.
Good luck with your project.
Regards,
Rick Pryor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:51 PM
Subject: "The Motor Will Splode"
> Hi,
>
> I just got back from Warfield where they're reworking the Hyster 36V (7"
x 15") motor I got off ebay that I was told would be ok at 72V on the
Cushman. They're replacing the brushes, bearings cleaning up the commutator
and said they have to rewire the armature since it's shorted for $325 total.
Anyway the guy rewinding it said "the motor will splode" at 72V but he
couldn't rewind it for higher voltage operation. I've heard of folk's
running to 2x motor voltage but I've previously only ran 36V at 48V and a
48V motor at 60V. Has anyone ran for a long time a 36V "pump motor" at 72V
on a 1400lb vehicle without it "sploding"?
>
> Mark
>
Hi Mark;
I'm glad to see that Warfield gave ya a good price. As I always have
said that they are most reasonable for repairing EV motors. The average
electric motor place, AC as their primary Thing, don't want to hear about DC
and will give you a hidiously high price to hope you will go away, or he can
make a few payments on his Porsche<g>! I was quoted over a grand to rewind a
ADV 9" armature!" Hell! Why bother, just get a new one" he sez! DC motors I
never felt that they were a throw-away . More like a family heirloom
thing.Major expense was the @#$% shipping to get them the armature in the
first place, but it was DONE in 3 daze! Two weaks time for the shipping.
I paid about 300 bux for a rewind 6 years ago ; new bearings AND
replacing the alumninum cooling fan I busted TRYING to remove the damn
bearing on that end! I have been through a set of bearings, since, I
suggested to Warfield/ Netgain to get ballsier bearings as I THOUGHT that
the end thrust helped kill the bearings, anyhow??End thrust from whenEVer
you step on the clutch to shift. EVerything is noisy as hell, now, a
vibration thing, gotta pull everything apart and get the armature, clutch
and flywheel balanced as a unit? Last time I took everything apart, I found
a zorched FIELD coil! The strap, winding they use had burned almost through!
Had that opened up, at say, 400 amps it would have burnt stuff nicely! I
hear J Wayland, and Jim Husted laffing, ONLY 400 amps? Try 2400
amps<g>!Acelas start off on less than that, but at a tad higher voltage.With
300 folks aboard AND all the crap they carry aboard. You wouldn't believe
how much stuff people schleppe onto a train! NO weight restrictions, ya
wanna carry 20 T 145's aboard? What's a few hundred tons among friends?<G>!
Have ya seen the Mercedes Ad with the 8 " Reindeer"silver jobs leading
Santa, behind, in the red one, going two abreast down the two laner, like a
team, cute, but I hope they don't try it 'round here! Fortunately there
wasn't any southbound traffic!
Put on the "Grinch that stole Christmas" and the" Polar Express!" You
gotta believe! Disclaimer; ya DON'T steer trains with a brake and throttle!
Merry Christmas EVerybody! EVen if it 'aint politically correct,
neither are EV's anyhow. But this will change, hopefully as we learch into a
New Year.
Seeya in Sunny FLA Next Month!
Bob
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