EV Digest 5078
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: thanks
by will burton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Pack voltage switches for peripheral devices?
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Neg supply for E-meter
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Replace 2 batteries?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Angle Capacity Estimate
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Replace 2 batteries?
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) 5 votes to top for Wayland !! RE: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from
Grabbing the #10 Spot!
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Federal EV tax credit
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Neg supply for E-meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 5 votes to top for Wayland !! RE: Electric Car just 44 Votes away
from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) 1501 and still voting!!!!!
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) White Zombie is now #1
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Pack voltage switches for peripheral devices?
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Neg supply for E-meter
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Cube power supplies (was Re: Neg supply for E-meter )
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 1501 and still voting!!!!!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Federal EV tax credit
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) "Posicharge" item on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Pack voltage switches for peripheral devices?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Neg supply for E-meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Mk3 Regs
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Mk3 Regs
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
signoff ev
On 1/4/06, Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> signoff ev
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a similar problem trying to switch my ceramic heater core. The pack
voltage is 220v and the current for the heater is aprox 10 amps. I have
tried regular relay (AC) arcing, I have tried series connecting a 30v 25
amp DC relay that had 3 poles and it still arcs - so I am stuck. Next step I
think is a mag blowout contactor to stop the arcing.
Like you I am open to suggestions to stop the arcing on switch off.
Good news is I changed out all my old batteries over Christmas so I now have
a pack of 188A/H AGM Yuasa batteries
www.bedfordev.flyer.co.uk
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "kluge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:51 PM
Subject: Pack voltage switches for peripheral devices?
I'm currently putting together some of the peripheral equipment which will
be working off the pack voltage of my 156 volt Courier - heater, DC-
DC, etc. The maximum draw could go as high as 15 amps. I don't seem to
find a lot of 156 VDC rated switches or relays readily available, so
I'm kicking around different ways to switch them on and off short of using
a Czonka. I've got some 3 pole relay modules which are rated for
28VDC, 30 amps which I'm thinking of using by wiring the three poles in
series, then wiring two of the modules in series, giving me a cumulative
voltage rating above the pack voltage (6 x 28 = 168 > 156.) Will this
work?
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.15/223 - Release Date:
06/01/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I kind of have the same problem you do , with my e mower , pack voltage is
96v , and I have no 12v alx battery . I was thinking , e meter takes 80 ma
max , min pack voltage will be 70 , max voltage to meter 35v , so to power
the meter off traction pack , I could have a 400 ohm resistor ( 10 watts
min) for the traction pack + going to the meter b+ , at the meter b+ have a
regulator to ground to keep the meter b+ for going over 35v . The regulator
would have to pass at least 250 ma to deal with 120v battery charge voltage
and e meter in sleep mode using just 20 ma.
steve clunn 3
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: RE: Neg supply for E-meter
Actually, there is very little wiring on the motorcycle and most of it I
have replaced already. If it weren't for the way the dumb lights are
made, I could easily isolate my whole 12volt system from the frame.
Unfortunately all the lights mounting hardware is built expecting the
negative side of the power equation from the frame, so even if I ran a
seperate ground wire to each, I would also have to figure out a way to
isolate the individual hardware piece from the frame. That is just not
worth the effort...
damon
From: Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Neg supply for E-meter
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:45:34 -0900
Not to change the subject from the E-meter problem but 10 of those babies
would give the requisite 30A at 12V (nominal) to run an accessory system.
Keep 'em cool enough, the input wires protected and you wouldn't have to
worry about isolating their chassis' from your frame ground. Throw a Trace
(now Xantrex)C-40 charge controller inline and there's an inexpensive
alternatve to DC-DC converters. More versatile too.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 1:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Neg supply for E-meter
I suggest to look at (used) laptop power supplies.
They are always switchers (you can use them from
100 - 240V AC, so they should be fine up to 360V
DC, which limits the voltage (during eq charge)
to about 22 x 12V batteries or 264V system.
They have plenty of output current (3+ Amp) and
often deliver around 15 - 18V.
One currently on Ebay for $5 +$8 shipping:
Item nr 6837357331
You can still look in your junk-box for old
power supplies - make sure they have a wide
input voltage range.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rush
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Neg supply for E-meter
Lee,
Would this one work - http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/PWB.pdf
Model AFC-15S, output V- 15vdc, output A - 0.66, output W - 10W, input V -
85-265vac?
sorta pricy, $39 from them.
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Neg supply for E-meter
> From: damon henry
>> I still have a couple more questions specific to my application. I
don't
>> currently have an accesory battery, just a DC-DC converter. The
negative
>> side of my DC-DC is connected to my frame. The E-meter manual states
>> that I must connect pin one to both the negative side of my traction
pack
>> as well as the negative supply for the E-meter. This of course
>> connects
>> the negative side of my traction pack to the negative side of my DC-DC
>> and my frame. This sounds bad...
>
> Correct! You can't power the E-meter directly from your 12v accessory
power.
>
>>The manual offers two options...
>
> There is another option, which I prefer. Get a small switching power
supply
> that can run directly off your traction pack, and which has an isolated
12v
> output to power the E-meter (and nothing else). The E-meter takes so
little
> power that this can be a "wall wart" or old laptop power brick. Just
make
> sure it is a SWITCHING power supply, not one with a 60hz transformer!
>
> Almost all low-power switchers have "universal" inputs and work on AC
> or
> DC, at anything from 90-300v. For example, I use an Astrodyne 15vdc
> 0.5amp switcher. It is rated for 90-264vac input, but actually works
from
> 60-350vdc. It's a little potted "brick", and would even work
> underwater.
>
> The advantage of this approach is that the little switcher is more
efficient
> than having to run the main DC/DC just to power a *second* DC/DC to get
> the 25ma or so the E-meter needs. The Astrodyne I use draws 4-9ma from
> my 132v propulsion pack, depending on whether the E-meter is asleep or
in
> full sunlight. A normal "full-size" DC/DC would draw over 20ma even
> with
NO
> load on its output.
> --
> Lee Hart
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a pack that was doing great , lots of cycles and over a year , then
the first wack ( Limp mode ) and they where never the same . I notice the
end of charge amprage go from 3 amp to 15 , . Can you just take out the 2
and reset the charger voltage? I hate to make such a big deal about not
going below the 10.5 voltage with non ev people cus I'm trying to promote
ev's but .........
steve clunn 4.
----- Original Message -----
From: "W Bryan Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:16 PM
Subject: Replace 2 batteries?
Folks,
Unfortunately, I let a family member borrow my EV and it was run
down into the "limping mode" for about 5 miles. This isn't the first
time it's been punished like this, but it certainly was the longest.
After charging it back up, I took it out for a test spin and
ran it down so the SOC was about halfway down the 'good' range. I then
popped the battery cases and started reading voltages.
Two adjacent batteries (of the 6v , cheap, capped, lead-acid variety)
are reading 0.1 v lower than everything else in the pack. The battery
pack is about a year and a half hold.
Should I replace these two? What are some rules of thumb for
when to replace sagging batteries?
Thanks!
Bryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill,
No way that a 1 x 1 x 1/8 inch aluminum angle span at 3 foot will hold one 70
lbs battery without a deflection more than 1/8 inch. To find this data, look
in engineering handbooks for building structures, that list the deflection rate
for all structured members for a certain weight at a certain length.
In my first EV, the battery racks supporting structure was made out of three
each 3 x 3 x 1/4 inch aluminum angle spanning for about 40 inches. These were
full welded together with another 3 x 3 x 1/4 inch aluminum angle at the ends
of the three angles.
A aluminum box which was 1/4 thick was welded to the base. The units were
coated with a acid proof appliance type epoxy painted. The frame rails where
this unit would connected to had a 4 x 4 x 1/4 steel angle that was about 4
feet long that was welded to it.
The battery support system was then bolted to these frame rails supports with
12 each 1/2 inch grade 8 bolts.
When I was driving this car, I can hear at times the stress that the battery
support system was taking, which was caused by the frame rails deflecting when
the EV was going over rough streets or make a hard turn.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dennis<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:05 PM
Subject: Angle Capacity Estimate
Anybody know where I can look on the web to estimate the size of angle iron
or angle aluminum needed to support a given weight of batteries? I'm
building a rack for batteries under the hood, two parallel lengths of angle,
which will span about 3 feet and hold around 80 pounds of batteries. I've
got some 1 x 1 x 1/8 aluminum lying around, but I don't know if that would
be sturdy enough.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When my pack starts going bad (experience for the last three packs) I
have removed the bad batteries from the string, going from 144, to 128
(always seems to be two bad) and then slowly removing the bad batteries
until I'm down to a 112 V system, where I finally give up and get a new
pack. I usually get about 500 miles on my 43 mile commute after the
first battery goes until the time I give up.
I'm now on my 4th pack this time with T890's and have a little over 10K
on them so far. I hope that I'm only halfway through their life.
First pack: US8VGC 12K miles (got hot in summer)
Second pack: US8VGC-HC 14K miles (Installed fans for summer, but had
more acid buildup than US8VGC or T875's))
Third pack: Trojan T875 16K miles (Never got over 120F, even on 105F
days)
Fourth pack: Trojan T890's 10K and counting....
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 6:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Replace 2 batteries?
I had a pack that was doing great , lots of cycles and over a year ,
then the first wack ( Limp mode ) and they where never the same . I
notice the end of charge amprage go from 3 amp to 15 , . Can you just
take out the 2 and reset the charger voltage? I hate to make such a big
deal about not going below the 10.5 voltage with non ev people cus I'm
trying to promote ev's but .........
steve clunn 4.
----- Original Message -----
From: "W Bryan Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:16 PM
Subject: Replace 2 batteries?
> Folks,
> Unfortunately, I let a family member borrow my EV and it was run
> down into the "limping mode" for about 5 miles. This isn't the first
> time it's been punished like this, but it certainly was the longest.
>
> After charging it back up, I took it out for a test spin and ran it
> down so the SOC was about halfway down the 'good' range. I then
> popped the battery cases and started reading voltages.
>
> Two adjacent batteries (of the 6v , cheap, capped, lead-acid
> variety) are reading 0.1 v lower than everything else in the pack.
> The battery pack is about a year and a half hold.
>
> Should I replace these two? What are some rules of thumb for when
> to replace sagging batteries?
>
> Thanks!
> Bryan
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Wayland, Hump and All,
Wayland is just a few votes, 5, from taking
the top spot!! Way to go everyone!! Now lets get Matt who is
in 5th place and Rod in 8th up there for a 1-2-3 finish this
month !! Voting URLs below.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>Stay Charged!
>
>Hump
>
>http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
>http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
>http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As a bonus, you get to pick the vehicle's make and model. My scratch-built
> EV was titled as a "1978 Microvan". My 1980 Renault LeCar was titled as a
> "Lectric Leopard" by U.S. Electricar. And my ComutaVan became a "1992
> Assembled Electric".
> --
paul wiley wrote:
> How does this effect insurance and, should i ever want to, resale?
Oddly. Some insurance companies only insure vehicles that are in their "black
books". Others (like State Farm Mutual, which I use) don't seem to care and
will insure anything. Be aware, however, that if you are in an accident, they
are likely to use this as an excuse to under-pay. Your best bet is to get a
"stated value" policy, where you give them invoices, bills of sale,
appraisals, or other evidence of the value of the vehicle when it is differnt
from "normal".
You should do this with *any* EV; if you don't, they will just use the usual
"blue book" to estimate the car's value as an ICE, which is likely to be far
less than its value as an EV!
Resale hasn't been a problem. The buyer knows what he's getting. If he doesn't
complain, no one else will.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
> One thing that limits my options is that my pack voltage is a nominal 55
> volts goes up to about 75 volts on charge. I horde laptop power supplies,
> but all the ones I have are rated at a minimum 100V, and when I put them
> to the test, they really did need 100V.
>
> Also have several switching power supplies that I originally bought off
> E-bay to be a DC-DC. They are rated at 20V-56V DC input. They really do
> need 20V before they turn on, and their outputs start to sag after the
> voltage raises above 60V. At 70V the 15V output drops to just over 10V no
> load and 5V with a car taillight hooked up, so these seem like they would
> be an unrelieable source of power during charge.
You get what you pay for. You need to look at a better grade of power supply.
The one that powers the E-meter in my 132v EV is an Astrodyne MSCC-5003. It is
a $76 potted module with screw terminals and an LED to indicate operation. It
is rated 15vdc at 0-0.33a out, 85-265vac input; but I picked it based on
advice from Astrodyne's engineer that this series works on DC over a much
wider range. It actually delivers a regulated 15v output to the E-meter with
anything from 60vdc to 400vdc.
For your 55-75vdc input, I would look at "wide range" Telco DC/DCs. For the
E-meter, the Astrodyne ASD05-48S15 ($44) is 18-75vdc input, 15v at 0.33a
output. Don't skimp and buy the "cost cutter" specials; they have worse
isolation, narrower operating ranges, and just aren't built for automotive
use.
Astrodyne has DC/DCs for your 12v accessory power as well, from 15-350 watts.
Their "48vdc input" models actually work from 36-72v, which might be good
enough if you turn off the DC/DC while charging.
These are just examples from one manufacturer. There are lots more! Just avoid
the cheap consumer grade junk, and you have a better chance to find something
that will work.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got to my computer this morning and actually Wayland is Number One
and still moving upward. The EV movement may be small but it sure packs a
punch! Way to go all you EV supporters! It is you that have made this
happen. Thank you all so much!
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:10 AM
Subject: 5 votes to top for Wayland !! RE: Electric Car just 44 Votes away
from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
Hi Wayland, Hump and All,
Wayland is just a few votes, 5, from taking
the top spot!! Way to go everyone!! Now lets get Matt who is
in 5th place and Rod in 8th up there for a 1-2-3 finish this
month !! Voting URLs below.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
Stay Charged!
Hump
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.16/225 - Release Date: 1/9/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.16/225 - Release Date: 1/9/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like I just did it, my vote was #1501!!!!!!!!!
Congratulations to all of us!!!!
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is really poor form, but I can't resist posting ... I got vote
number 1490 :o)
--chris
On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 10:10 -0500, jerryd wrote:
> Hi Wayland, Hump and All,
> Wayland is just a few votes, 5, from taking
> the top spot!! Way to go everyone!! Now lets get Matt who is
> in 5th place and Rod in 8th up there for a 1-2-3 finish this
> month !! Voting URLs below.
> Thanks,
> Jerry Dycus
>
> >Stay Charged!
> >
> >Hump
> >
> >http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
> >http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
> >http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Vat-o-oil?
http://www.telegraph-office.com/pages/DuCretet_and_Roger_key.html
"Ducretet & Roger made the unique looking key shown at the right.
(Click on the image for a full size view.) The keying contacts are
immersed in a cup shaped vessel of oil. Such keys are called "oil
break" keys to denote that the contacts "make and break" in oil.
Typically oil break keys take advantage of the fact that oil is a
good thermal conductor and a good electrical insulator. Therefore it
dissipates heat away from the contacts,... and no less important,
minimizing arcing between and prolonging the life span of the contacts."
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
On Jan 10, 2006, at 7:31 AM, John Luck Home wrote:
I have a similar problem trying to switch my ceramic heater core.
The pack voltage is 220v and the current for the heater is aprox 10
amps. I have tried regular relay (AC) arcing, I have tried series
connecting a 30v 25 amp DC relay that had 3 poles and it still arcs
- so I am stuck. Next step I think is a mag blowout contactor to
stop the arcing.
Like you I am open to suggestions to stop the arcing on switch off.
Good news is I changed out all my old batteries over Christmas so I
now have a pack of 188A/H AGM Yuasa batteries
www.bedfordev.flyer.co.uk
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Neg supply for E-meter
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:20:13 -0500
damon henry wrote:
> One thing that limits my options is that my pack voltage is a nominal 55
> volts goes up to about 75 volts on charge. I horde laptop power
supplies,
> but all the ones I have are rated at a minimum 100V, and when I put them
> to the test, they really did need 100V.
>
> Also have several switching power supplies that I originally bought off
> E-bay to be a DC-DC. They are rated at 20V-56V DC input. They really do
> need 20V before they turn on, and their outputs start to sag after the
> voltage raises above 60V. At 70V the 15V output drops to just over 10V
no
> load and 5V with a car taillight hooked up, so these seem like they
would
> be an unrelieable source of power during charge.
You get what you pay for. You need to look at a better grade of power
supply.
Actually I was just testing the stuff that I had on hand. It turns out that
EVParts has exactly the right part for $34.95
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=304&product_id=1540,
but even at that I decided to stick with the seperate battery solution.
There were a few other little reasons not worth discussing that influenced
my decision.
Thanks for all the good advice.
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 02:27:27 -0500 (EST), Lee Hart
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>From: Cor van de Water
>>Add a diode and a fuse (4A or so) to each and you won't
>>have to worry about one blowing - you still have 9 others
>>to share the load. Heck, install a few more for backup ;-)
>>It is preferred if they have current-limit - this will
>>automatically share the load, none will supply more than
>>its max current.
>>In half-load, it may be that some are full-on and some are off,
>>but that is not interesting.
>
>It's not quite that simple. Most of these inexpensive supplies have NO cooling;
>they are just a closed plastic box with no exposed metal or ventilation slots.
>If you overload them, they overheat. When they get hot enough, they either
>blow a thermal fuse (and so are dead forever), or shut down until input power
>is removed, they are allowd to cool down, and then input power is re-applied.
>This is impractical for an EV's DC/DC converter.
>
>Let's say you connect ten 12v 1amp supplies in parallel to your 12v battery.
>Whichever one happens to be set for the highest voltage tries to deliver ALL
>the load current. It's overloaded; so it shuts down. Whichever one has the
>next lowest voltage now tries to do the same, and shuts down. One by one,
>they all die.
>
>To make this work, you need supplies that have a true current limited output,
>and are rated to operate indefinitely in current limit. Higher-grade supplies,
>especially those intended to charge batteries, are more likely to do this. But
>if the supplier bought whatever is the cheapest, they won't.
>
I've bought several hundred of these power supplies surplus, usually
by the box full at hamfests and have yet to run into a regulated one
that doesn't have current limit. Though unregulated switchers were
used somewhat in the beginning of the laptop age, they're few and far
between. Mfrs want to keep that heat out of the laptop. I'm thinking
about the SMPS chips I have experience with and I' having trouble
imagining designing a PS without regulation.
These power supplies make excellent battery chargers, particularly if
one opens the case (hammering a sharp knife blade into the glued joint
pops them open cleanly.) to reset the voltage. I've run into a few
that had foldback current limit (the current ramps back as the load
resistance goes down) but most just limit at the stated output.
Running them in parallel is as simple as adjusting the voltage as
close to the same as practical and then simply tying the outputs
together. The supply with the highest voltage will current limit
first. The next higher one will pick up load as the first one goes
into limit and so on. Assuming that there is some length of hookup
wire between each supply and the load, the resistance of this hookup
wire will serve as good enough ballast resistors to make them share
load fairly well.
I haven't experienced overheating in current limit but if I ever run
upon a supply that does get too hot, I'll simply bore some holes in
the case to let air in. Convection should do just fine. Assuming
that the candidate supplies don't overheat at current limit, it's no
big deal that they don't share the load equally. Some will simply run
warmer than the others.
I've been kicking around the idea of using some of these as a pack
charger. I recently picked up a large box of fairly large bricks with
28 volt, 8 amp output. One of these across sets of 4 cart batteries
would make dandy chargers if the input PF isn't too bad. I need to
measure that before I think about it too much longer.
I've reverse-engineered the Progressive Dynamics Charge Wizard, a cute
little PIC-based wafer that turns their RV converters into intelligent
3 stage chargers. I've figured out how to apply the Wizard to any DC
supply that has either an accessible reference voltage, an accessible
feedback terminal or an adjustable output voltage. The wizard not
only does the smart charge algorithm, it also has a maintenance mode
that does a periodic equalization charge. All without user input.
Since this wizard can be had in single piece quantities for a little
over $15, one can easily and cheaply turn a power cube into a smart
charger.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Hey Rush, mine was number 1500. At 1498 I refreshed every 5 seconds until it
hit 1499 and then placed my vote to shot it up to 1500. Talk about a sick
obsession :-)
Roderick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:53 AM
Subject: 1501 and still voting!!!!!
Looks like I just did it, my vote was #1501!!!!!!!!!
Congratulations to all of us!!!!
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--
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--- Begin Message ---
Cost of conversions are covered under pub 535 page 45.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p535.pdf
Stay Charged!
Hump
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Federal EV tax credit
Buy a brand new ICE and convert it.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>According to the following page, only new EVs that "have never been
>used as a non-electric vehicle" are eligible for the tax credit.
>http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_afv.shtml#ev
>Does anybody have a defensible way of claiming the credit for a conversion?
>
>Cheers,
>Jay Donnaway
>www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
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Any idea what this was used on:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4603646892
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Stefan Peters wrote:
> The MOSFET package specifies a "time to final Rds" of 15uS given the
> recommended 1uS rise time on the gate.
15us would be rather slow for a MOSFET. Perhaps this is just where they
measure it, to avoid ringing and noise problems in their test setup.
> They have a "fast recovery" and a "very fast recovery" version of [their
> big diodes]. Ruttonsha doesn't seem to list actual recovery times of their
> power diodes, so I'm left guessing for now.
It's difficult to measure, and the numbers don't mean much unless you are
using the same test setup. Numbers from different manufacturers often aren't
directly comparable.
> If I smoke the MOSFETs, I'll move up to the faster one.
If the problem is diode reverse recovery energy, a faster MOSFET makes the
problem *worse*!
The easy way out is to buy a module, where the manufacturer has already chosen
a diode and transistor that have compatible characteristics (diode has
reverse recovery characteristics to match the speed of the transistor). If
you pick the parts separately, you're on your own!
> That would be a battery short with this setup, so I'll want to avoid
> that. I can raise the rise time on the gate of the MOSFET, but the power
> rating will go down.
Correct. This is the problem with simple circuits. They only work well with
"perfect" parts. The non-ideal nature of real-world parts is what causes all
those extra little parts to get added to practical designs. This is what
separates the engineers from the tinkerers: Engineers make things work,
regardless of the nagging limitations of reality.
PWMs have been around for 100 years, and "perfected" many times. Engineers
built them first with mechanical switches; then vacuum tubes, then bipolar
transistors, then SCRs, and now MOSFETs and IGBTs. Each time, simple circuits
turned out to have problems; so extra parts and circuit "tricks" were added
to make them work reliably in practice. When each "new" technology came out,
it was advertised as a breakthrough that made circuits simpler. And each
time, the new parts also turned out to need extra parts and tricks to make
them work right.
We are at the point where MOSFETs and IGBTs are still new enough that most
designers don't realize they need extra parts to make them work reliably. The
ones who know better are applying the "tricks" from the older technologies to
build better products; the ones that don't aren't!
What are the tricks? Look up things like soft switching, resonant and
quasi-resonant switching, ZVS and ZCS switching, and lossless snubbers.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Luck Home wrote:
> I have a similar problem trying to switch my ceramic heater core. The pack
> voltage is 220v and the current for the heater is aprox 10 amps. I have
> tried regular relay (AC) arcing, I have tried series connecting a 30v 25
> amp DC relay that had 3 poles and it still arcs - so I am stuck. Next step
> I think is a mag blowout contactor to stop the arcing.
220vdc is "up there" where you have serious arcing to contend with! You'll
need enough AC contacts to handle at least 880vac to break this reliably. The
simplest solution is to get a small Kilovac contactor rated for these
voltages.
Failing that, you'll need at least a couple normal relays to get at least 4
contacts in series. And, use an RC or RCD snubber across them (see my earlier
post).
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> I was thinking; E-meter takes 80 ma max... so to power the meter off
> traction pack , I could have a 400 ohm resistor (10 watts min) for
> the traction pack
No; its supply current varies drastically depending on input voltage, display
brightness, and whether it is asleep or not. A simple resistor will allow far
too much voltage variation at the input to the E-meter. If it was big enough
to limit the voltage in "sleep", it would be too big to power the meter when
sunlight was hitting its face. There is no workable resistor value.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
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Nope... we are using a simpler verision, since the EV tech spec is a moving
target.
It's clear that the software can be upgraded if the newer spec is a better
idea.
Lee's batt balencer is a good idea, but VERY expensive per battery. I am
taking hits on $75 a Reg, and lots of folks wouldn't go for the Mk1 when
they were $20 a pop, and the MK2Bs at $45 each have people running for
cover. The $75 will thin the pack quite a bit, unless you really need
battery feed back to keep your pack in line.
But you really do need Regs on AGMs.. and every Bit kicker on this list
would kill for data from every battery. And I need a price that I can live
with. Adding data to a $45 Reg Seams like it should be a Lot more Capable
device, and there fore support a steep price premium.
The coming hyper inteligent battery pack and Charging BMS , needs this
concept.. anyone doing anything more advanced than flooded lead acid will
gain range and cycle life with advanced control charging systems.
Of course we will see what the market bears.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: Mk3 Regs
> Rich,
>
> Great on the regs, I hope that you sell some. I talked with someone here
in Tucson that has a mixture of your MK1 and MK2 regs and feels that they
have really helped the life of his batteries.
>
> I would probably order a set, but I already have on order a set of
balancers from Lee. He is combining the balancers with a charger and DC/DC
that will all work in concert.
>
> Are you using the new EvilBus spec update that has been happening on the
EVTech listserv?
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:36 PM
> Subject: Mk3 Regs
>
>
> > Listers...
> > Thursday night we had a successful test of the proto type MK3
Rudman regulators.
> >
> > Bruce Sherry of the SEVA and EV tech list did the programming with a
ATmega 8 chip. With some timely help from John Pullen
> >
> > So we now have a intelligent Reg system. Or parts of it.
> >
> > The Basic Feature set is:
> > Operates as a Rudman MK2B reg... as it's main operation goal.
> > It dissipates at a preset voltage point.
> > These first versions will be "LoadLess" only. You will have
to supply your own load resistor and heat sink. The onboard chip is a 50A 60
volt Mosfet. So you can make some 250 watt loads if you need to.
> > Lights a Green LED when actually dissipating power.
> > Lights a Yellow led if a Low batt event is in progress
> > Light and latches a RED led if a Low batt event occurs, and stays
latched until a over voltage Reg events occurs.
> >
> > The added Goodies are
> > You can program the voltage setpoint for Regulation
> > You can program the low voltage setpoint
> > You can read back the current voltage
> > you can read back the Reg status
> > You can read back the local temperature.
> >
> > The current command structure supports 99 regs in series.
> > Runs on Windows Terminal software
> > has a long list of commands.. that I need to review and become
failure with.
> > 2400 baud RS-232 N81 I think.
> >
> > I think our operating window is from 7 to 18 volts.
> >
> > This is like the 4th year or this project, I now have what I wanted..
> >
> > We really wanted to keep the price below $50, but... I am tired of not
making a dime with the Mk2B Regs. They are a LOT of work to setup and test.
I have been doing this for over a decade. Sigh!!!!
> > I think the only prudent price mark is $75 each, and we will adjust
that, as my greed or Guilt battles for our hearts and minds.... It's going
to take a couple of Grand of capital to get these made tested and
> > available in volume.
> >
> > The development path is Through Hole for now. Since I have the wave
soldering machine and grunts that stuff Boards in every week. I have a
production team that has some track time. But I see this product becoming
SMT.. Because Bruce does SMT... and REAL productions need to be SMT now
days. So I have a Dilemma... Big and easy to build, small and it all has to
be contracted out.
> >
> > Right now the PCB is the same length as a MK2B reg 4.500 , and I think
it's 4 inches wide. So it's bigger than a MK2B reg. I think we can drop
quite a few components. If I demand my ideas... But I wish to stay
> > on the good side of Bruce's wishes.
> >
> > The system has to have a single Regs that acts as a RS-232 to Evil buss
converter, then N number of regs out to 99. So you need to order at least 2
regs, one is the "Bridge Reg" I am hoping to get the Bridge reg to play Reg1
also. We will see about that. Right now You need both. You will need a PC
that talks Serial ASCII.
> >
> > The current flavor sucks 15 Ma of standby current... Sorry... you might
want to use the Auto restart on our chargers.
> >
> > The production plans are about 25 to 50 in through hole with some
cleaned up PCB area, maybe a better chip flavor for much lower power
consumption, and a couple other "Better ideas" that Bruce talked about that
I did not write down. I will be evaluating these on the 75Kw charger system,
and have clients that wish to use them in all sorts of things. After the 50
are made and tested.. and should we have reasonable success, Then we will
decide on SMT or through hole and 500 to 1000 board sets.
> >
> > I think a LOT of listers Would want these Even if a few of our points
are not solved. Perfection is NOT possible.. just as long as we try... you
all get equipment. and I get to make it better every time.
> >
> > We will make a MK3 Subpage on the WWW.ManzanitaMicro.com site, and
publish the commands and basic procedures, the Source code... is not going
to be freely distributed, You will have to deal with Bruce Sherry on that
point. I don't see why we need to protect the code, and there good reasons
to let better minds help advance the product. So if you are into hacking the
code and hardware, we will support chosen Beta members. I have watched some
pretty capable friends try and fail to make this simple product. It's by no
means a finished product....Respect is due to those that made it happen.
> >
> > Clearly we will be adding features and updates as we go along. The PCBs
will support the ATmel 6 pin programming port, and code updates will be
available One way or the other. So this little widget is a fantastic play
toy That we will keep as flexible as possible, Who knows where it's really
going, but this is sure a darn fine start.
> >
> >
> > I will entertain orders and volume numbers at this time.
> > Clearly volume orders and commitments will allow me to drop the per Reg
price.
> > I had a nice demo, but even I can't run them yet, so until I get some
track time my self, support is going to be pretty hard to do.
> >
> > Look for stuff on the Website.. soon.
> >
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita MIcro
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
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Sounds like a Good idea.
I know there are about Dozzen folks doing Evil Buss systems, and more all
the time.
So the more the merrier.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:27 AM
Subject: Re: Mk3 Regs
> On 1/7/06, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Listers...
> > Thursday night we had a successful test of the proto type MK3
Rudman regulators.
>
> > The system has to have a single Regs that acts as a RS-232 to Evil buss
converter, then
> > N number of regs out to 99. So you need to order at least 2 regs, one is
the "Bridge Reg"
> > I am hoping to get the Bridge reg to play Reg1 also. We will see about
that. Right now
> > You need both. You will need a PC that talks Serial ASCII.
>
> Hi Rich,
> Sounds good (if a bit on the expensive side).
> It might be useful to know that I'm producing a small, simple display
> module with an LCD display and 3 buttons. It also uses a ATmega 8,
> with a PC serial interface. It's main application is as a PSA EV
> diagnostic kit, but I threw Lee Hart's EVIL bus interface on there as
> well.
> So hopefully it will be of use to some evilbus experimenter, at
> least as a bridge like you mentioned. I could sell the module as
> "open source" with the ability to program your own EVIL functionality
> as required in Bascom, if there's any interest.
>
> Best regards
> Evan
>
--- End Message ---
