EV Digest 5246
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motor Winding
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) more BS from Dean Grannes, Way, Way Off Topic, I will no longer post after
this
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: When to charge
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Titling EV issue
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Titling EV issue
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EVLN(Vectrix: 50 mph in 6.8 sec, top speed 62 mph)-Long
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EVLN(Vectrix: 50 mph in 6.8 sec, top speed 62 mph)-Long
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Hello Victor
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) correction - battery insides
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Current Eliminator News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) RE: Titling EV issue
by "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EVLN(Vectrix: 50 mph in 6.8 sec, top speed 62 mph)-Long, Comments.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) test
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Altair Nanotechnologies and Boshart Engineering to build LiIon EV
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: When to charge
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: When to charge
by "Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Motor Winding
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Roland, I am haveing trouble with a few points, but I am newer to this
than you.
>From what I have been reading on this list and accross the internet,
About the 600 charge cycles, Unless the charger is chargeing incorrectly
and doing damage on each charge, chargeing at the 75% state of charge is
1/4 of a cycle, not a cycle. Now on lithium ion chemistries, it is not
linear. the shallower cycles allow significantly longer cycle life.
Leaveing the battery in a discharged state is not good. If I understood
his situation leaving it discharged over night seems counter to what I
have heard and will shorten their life.
The zilla is not in parallel, it is a series controller, it just has the
4th terminal to allow an internal shunt and to provide the gate drive
circitry with a reference. And probably an internal Power supply, but
otmar can answer this better.
Your GE motor is a series wound dc motor, like the warp. It sounds like
it might have interpoles though. Got photo's?
Back to the numbers, They just don't add up. I still don't understand
why your zilla power was so limited, it should of been more than the
cableform numbers you mentioned.
If I understand the difference between the 2, the two major power
sections are
cableform, lowside drive
B+ ---------------------safety contactor------fuse-------A1 A2---S2
S1-----\___/--------main contactor----- B-
|________|/|________| |
|\|
Zilla High side drive
B+ -----------------fuse----main contactor-----\___/------A1 A2---S2
S1----------------------- B-
| |_____|/|___________|
|\|
The motor is the only inductor, both use PWM, both are in series, what
am I missing?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear EV List Subscribers,
I have already resigned as the NEDRA president. Now after what I just read
here I will no longer post to the EV list. The whole EV movement in my personal
perspective has gone so far off course in this country with people like Dean
Grannes trying to destroy EV Drag Racing that I will no longer be a member of
this community. I am totally ashamed and appalled at what has become of a very
fun and adventuress sport into the furtherance, development and the acceptance
of electric vehicles as an alternative transportation solution. There is only
so much BULL SHIT any human can handle and this was way over my tolerance
level!. This human does not even have any valid authority to even be involved
in this NEDRA election. He is self proclaimed. He has no moral, ethical, or
legal grounds to stand on. Good Night and Good Luck!
Roderick Wilde
Folks,
Thank you for your patience with the elections. I know it appears that
nothing is going on, but there is a lot of behind-the-scenes
"choreography" that has been happening. I figured this would take a
while to explain, and frankly hoped it wouldn't be necessary, but enough
questions have been asked that I'll take the time to do it.
NEDRA is going through a rocky transition period. Some members are
understandably upset with the way things have gone. Like it or not,
that is water under the bridge. We cannot do anything about the past,
but we can improve the future. We as an organization need to unite the
membership behind a fairly-elected president and vice-president so that
we can move forward with the backing of the members. From my point of
view, the key words in the preceding sentence are "fairly elected."
More on that later.
Please allow me a little digression here. At Intel, I have worked in
the past several years as a validation engineer. What that means is
that when we have a processor that's been designed and built (but not
released yet), my job is to try to make it fail. Part of this is trying
to conceive of the worst possible sequence of events that might cause
the processor to do something incorrectly, or hang, or give a wrong
result, or fail in some other way. This sequence of events might not
ever happen in real life, and it might not even be possible, but if I
can find such a sequence of events, then it is up to design team to
either fix it or prove that this sequence can never happen. This makes
my job (and everyone else's in validation--there are hundreds of us)
unpopular, because we try to "break the system", but it is necessary,
because the result is a better system. When the processor is finally
put on the market, it has already been tested thoroughly, and most, if
not all, of the bugs have been found and removed. To do my job, I have
to play the role of someone who is intentionally trying to break the
system, find any flaws, exploit any weaknesses. Andy Grove, former
president and CEO of Intel, wrote a book titled "Only the Paranoid
Survive". That summarizes the corporate mindset, in some sense. One
survives by anticipating (and being prepared for) the worst possible
adversary or set of events.
I took this same paranoid mindset with the elections, long before the
nomination period even started. Since this could potentially be a
contentious election, I tried to envision all possible scenarios in
which someone (either one of the members or one of the nominees) would
try to claim the election was invalid. One way that the results could
be called into question is by claiming they are inaccurate (or
miscounted). This is fairly easy to anticipate and counter. We
discussed this on this list, and decided that having an impartial third
party receive and count the ballots would be a good way of ensuring that
the ballots are counted fairly and impartially. Further, since we do
not have anonymous voting (each ballot must be signed by the voter and
then returned), it is easy for the vote counter to check and
double-check each vote, if it becomes necessary. No one but the
impartial vote counter will know who voted for whom, but it will be
possible for the vote counter to track each vote, so the results will be
accurate.
The only other area I could foresee someone complaining and claiming
that the election was invalid was because it was unfair. That is, it
was in some way biased toward one candidate or against another. This is
a much harder claim to counter, because there are so many ways in which
an election could be claimed to be unfair. Thus, every decision I made
was answered based on the following question: "Which solution is the
most fair?" That is, which solution gives no appreciable advantage or
disadvantage to one or more candidates?
Let me digress one more time. The basic rules for the elections are
sketched out in the Charter. However, the Charter does not (and
intentionally so) explain the details of many of the aspects of the
election. These are left up to whomever is running the election. For
example, it does not say anything about candidate statements for
nominees. However, this is something we have done in the past (when Lou
ran the elections), and I think we largely agree that it's a good idea,
since it gives the members an idea about the candidates' qualifications
or vision. Since candidate statements are not mentioned in the Charter,
obviously there is no rule for how long they can be. This is a detail
left to the person running the election. I chose 100 words (or less).
There is nothing magical about that number. Other people in my position
might have chosen 200 or 20. I felt 100 is reasonable amount of text
for a candidate to present himself (for reference, the preceding
paragraph has 77 words). Granted, 100 words is somewhat arbitrary, but
as long as everyone abides by that number, that aspect of the election
is fair. If one person is allowed to write 500 words (or even 110
words) and everyone else is limited to 100, then that is unfair.
Several days ago, in a message I won't quote here, I wrote a numbered
list of the steps remaining in the election. (1) was to contact the
nominees and ask whether they wanted to run for the position for which
they were nominated and ask for candidate statements, (2) was to receive
candidate statements, etc. I asked this group how much I should do, and
how much I should turn over to the impartial third party. I was very
concerned about this, and wanted to make sure that whatever amount of
work I did would be appropriate without somehow biasing or skewing the
results. Everyone that responded said I could be trusted to receive
candidate statements, print ballots, and mail them out. The point at
which we need to turn over the process to the impartial third party is
where the ballots are received and counted.
The timing of events between the close of the nomination period and the
mailing of the ballots is where things get sticky and potentially
"unfair." Again, nothing is said about this in the Charter. It is left
up to the person running the election. Since everyone who
responded agreed that I could run this part of the election, I had to
make decisions as to how to do this in the most fair and equitable way.
Here is an example. At the close of nominations, I had a number of
nominatees for vice president. Let's just say 10 for the sake of
argument. When I called the first person, he might say, "I don't know
whether I want to run or not. Who else is running?" At that point, I
don't know--all I know is who else has been nominated. Let's say I tell
him the ten names, and he says, "Well, I don't really want to compete
with all those folks, so I'll drop out." The second conversation goes
the same way, then the third, and so on. By the time we get to the end,
only one person is left (let's say). So there is one person on the
ballot. Now the first person could come back and say, "wait a minute, I
dropped out because I thought all those other people were going to run.
I would've run if I'd known it was only one
other person running. It wasn't fair! The election was biased against
me because I had to make a decision first, and the other people got to
make decisions based on my decision not to run."
In a perfect world, information would flow perfectly, and everyone would
get to know pertinent information at the same time. With web sites and
email, we're approaching that, but I made the decision before the
nomination period even started that I would make this
election fair even to those members who don't have email or internet
access (and we do have such members). I didn't want someone to say
afterwards, "I didn't know that so-and-so dropped out (or didn't drop
out, or whatever), and that would've changed my decision to run (or
not)." Thus, my other options to prevent the scenario above would have
been to (a) call back all the first nominees each time one of the later
ones decided whether or not they were going to run, or (b) let each
nominee decide on his own whether he wants to run regardless of
who else may or may not be running. Option (a) above is clearly
nightmarish, because every time there is a change in someone's status, I
would need to call everyone else and make sure they knew about it.
Option (b) seemed more reasonable. It avoids a lot of the questions
of who knew what and when, and it forces each nominee to introspect and
ask "Do I want to run for this position? Is this a position I am
willing to serve in?"
Once I decided on (b) above, that meant that no nominees should know the
status of other nominees until the ballot has been decided.
Unfortunately, there was more than one nominee on this nedraboard
mailing list. This meant that in fairness to the other nominees not
on this list, I could not reveal the list of nominees to this list until
all nominees had decided whether they were going to run for each
position. That was finally decided in the last few days.
Then came another wrinkle. Some nominees have already sent me their
candidate statements. If the list of nominees becomes public now, then
those who have already sent their candidate statements could
(theoretically) claim that the election was unfair, because they sent
their candidate statements not knowing who the other candidates would
be, whereas those nominees who waited were able to write their
statements with that knowledge. That would be a reasonable claim, and
one that couldn't be easily defended against, without again going back
and asking the candidates to resubmit their statements once they know
the other candidates. Since I'm only missing a small number of
candidate statements, it would be easier to hold off releasing the list
of nominees until all statements are in. That would be fair to all
candidates.
Once the candidate statements are in, the ballots become final, and the
list of candidates will be made public. Is this fair? Yes. Are there
other fair ways of doing the election? Yes. Are they better? Maybe.
Why did I pick this particular process? I had to pick one, and this is
the one I picked. There might be better ones, but I don't think there
are any that are more fair, and remember that fairness is the priority
here.
Do you see a pattern here? Every decision is based on the question: is
this fair to ALL candidates? If not, then no.
Recently, Brian has been asking for a membership list. He wants to make
sure the addresses of all the members are correct. Reasonable enough.
We do want to make sure that ballots reach everyone. As it turns out, I
have worked extensively on correcting the membership list
and am taking steps to ensure that ballots get to the appropriate
members. Remember, this is part of #5 in that list of items I sent out
last week ("Mail the ballots..") and everyone agreed that I could be
trusted to do this fairly and accurately.
Still, Brian asks for a membership list. I have to ask myself the same
question I have asked all throughout the election process. "Is this
fair to all candidates?" Since Brian is himself a candidate, is it fair
that one candidate have access to all the phone numbers, email
addresses, and home addresses of members, while the other candidates
don't? I would hope that we would all agree that this could be seen as
being unfair. Even if he never looks at the list, the fact that I sent
it to him could be perceived as giving one candidate an advantage over
the others. There is a perceived conflict of interest there. This
might sound overly paranoid, but it is in the interest of fairness to
all candidates and the integrity of the election.
It was already decided that I could be trusted to mail the ballots to
the members. I am taking extra steps to make sure that everyone
receives a ballot. The vote counter is tracking votes as they come in.
The ballots will be mailed on Monday, and this will be announced on the
NEDRA web site. There are plenty of safeguards in place to make sure
that most, if not all, members receive their ballots, and there are
processes in place for those members who do not (for whatever reason)
receive their ballots to be able to cast their vote.
This will probably be the tightest election NEDRA has ever run. I don't
see a compelling reason to violate the perceived fairness of the
elections by sending out a membership list to one of the candidates. I
have gone through all the recent email on members and updated their
addresses. If there are particular members that need to be checked, I
can do that. If there are other specific concerns, I would be happy to
discuss them.
So, here we are. I expect the candidate statements to be returned to me
by the end of the day tomorrow. If there are any still missing, I will
likely call the candidates in question and try to determine when the
candidate statements are expected. I don't want to send out ballots
without candidate statements from all candidates, but neither do I want
the timeline to slip again. I have a very full plate this weekend, with
other commitments Friday night, much of Saturday, and much of Sunday,
but I will do whatever it takes to get the ballots printed and stuffed
in envelopes and mailed on Monday. Chip, if you'd like to put the
revised timeline on the website, that means ballots go out on Monday,
March 13, and must be postmarked for return by Saturday, April 15 (this
gives three days for the ballots to get to the members, which I think is
reasonable for US Mail). Give the counter a few days to count and
validate the ballots, and we can expect the results to be announced
around April 21. Of course, this is a guess on my part...once the
ballots are mailed, we need to give a few days for them to be received
by members, then 30 days for members to fill them out and return them.
If there are unexpected problems in the voting, or weird discrepencies,
or everyone waits until the last day to mail their ballots, it might
take our vote tallier a bit longer to count the votes and report the
results. On the other hand, if a vast majority of the votes come in
early, it may be possible to announce the winner immediately as the
voting
period ends. After the ballots are mailed, it's technically out of my
hands (though if asked, I will offer to help sort out any issues that
arise).
As you can see, I've given this an awful lot of thought. There may be
things I've missed. If there are glaring problems with the way the
elections are run, please bring them up. If there is a real issue of
fairness, please bring it up. If not, then please be patient with the
process for the next few days and let the process work.
Dean
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 3/8/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about charging at home? Drive to work and let it sit for the day at
90%, then drive home and begin charge from 60% to 65%. I'm not sure though
that sitting for a few hours at 60% would hurt them much though.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of TiM M
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: When to charge
I have a 144V pack of US 145s and a RT daily commute
of 14 miles. I have access to a public charging
station at work. Work is mostly down hill from home so
it takes a little more than twice as much out of the
pack to get home as it does to get to work. I've been
charging at work, driving home, then back to work and
charging again in the morning. Will letting the
batteries sit overnight at ~75% charged shorten their
life? I could charge at both ends but that would
double the number of cycles the pack would see. They'd
be shallower cycles. I'm typically at a 60 to 65%
level when I charge now. If I charged twice per day
I'd be charging at ~90% and 75%.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
TiM
'61 Electric Rampside
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
This is an easy one:
My truck was in my garage without batteries, when I went to the DMV
and had the title put in my name.
That title was current, was even payed for shortly before, but I do not
think you need a smog check on a title clearly showing an 'E' in the
fuel type!
I walked out with plates and the title was sent to me, the truck
never left my garage
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ricky Suiter
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Titling EV issue
While I can't say for sure on the California details, the thing to try and
get here is a "title only" (at least that's what we'd do in Arizona). See if
the person you bought it from will get a title in his name, no registration
or plates, then you should be able to get it transfered to you. Of course
this may not be very straight forward, you might have to make a few phone
calls to get it straightened out.
Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So I have a question. This
truck that is in my yard (94 US_Electricar)
was shipped over to me in MD. However the owner in CA never titled it in
CA, and it's title is a VA title that was signed over to the guy in CA.
MD won't register it because it needs to be titled in CA. So my question:
Can you title a car in CA without it having a smog check. I don't need
CA plates, but if I have to ship this thing back to CA just to have them
say "yeah it's electric" makes me wonder. Does the car have to be in CA
physically?
Chris
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since Chris got his truck without paying for it, he can claim its value (94!
S10) to be very low.
8% of very low is even less... No worries about tax, and the cost for title
should also be limited,
I can look it up on my title if you want.
Usually those specialized companies are not really cheap - I asked them when
I
wanted to register my salvage Prius for me and decided to do it myself
I think they wanted $75 to sit in line for me at the DMV and do the
paperwork,
but I know when to go there to be done in 1/2 hour so I can save myself that
money.
YMMV.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dave Davidson
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Titling EV issue
Chris,
There should be some way for the guy in CA to sign the title over to you
without actually having to retitle it in CA, which would likely include
paying CA sales tax and a transfer fee, then paying it again in MD. Some
states allow titling without the car being present (I believe Florida is one
of them) so you could get a FL title in your name then transfer it to MD.
There are companies that specialize in getting titles for cars that have
been shipped around without retitling, as yours has. May be worth it to pay
them to jump through the hoops for you. They know all the tricks.
Dave
----Original Message Follows----
From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Titling EV issue
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:40:33 -0500
So I have a question. This truck that is in my yard (94 US_Electricar) was
shipped over to me in MD. However the owner in CA never titled it in CA, and
it's title is a VA title that was signed over to the guy in CA.
MD won't register it because it needs to be titled in CA. So my question:
Can you title a car in CA without it having a smog check. I don't need CA
plates, but if I have to ship this thing back to CA just to have them say
"yeah it's electric" makes me wonder. Does the car have to be in CA
physically?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This company has been around for a while & has touted it's "demo" prototype
for years. Has anyone EVer had a chance to get a test drive? Lawrence
Rhodes........
Vectrix was founded by Andrew J. MacGowan, a former senior
executive for Quadrax Corp., a now-defunct Rhode Island company
that once made thermoplastic composite material for the aerospace
industry.
The company was doing contract work on the F-22 fighter jet
project for Lockheed Martin, according to Plagenhoef.
"The Cold War ended, and no one wanted to buy jets any more," he
said.
Lockheed executives directed MacGowan to put the F-22 engineers
to work to develop and build a new product, Plagenhoef said. They
came up with a two-wheeled electric vehicle, and Vectrix was
born.
Lockheed Martin is not connected to the company now, Plagenhoef
said. Vectrix is privately owned, with about 175 shareholders
that include companies, funds and individuals, Hughes said. The
second-largest shareholder is Parker Hannifin Corp., of
Cleveland. That company specializes in, among other things, fuel
cell technology, Hughes said.
Hughes declined to name the other shareholders, saying they do
not want to be identified publicly.
Vectrix now has six employees in Newport, 16 in New Bedford and
about a dozen in Europe.
Bringing the scooter to market has taken eight years, said
Hughes, mainly because raising money from investors has been
difficult.
"After 9/11, it was very difficult to raise venture capital,"
Hughes said. "We couldn't get people's attention."
What did get the attention of investors was the development of
some prototype models of the scooter. Once they see it and ride
it, "they get it," he said.
The company has raised $40 million so far, and that has allowed
it to design and build several prototypes. Vectrix is in the
process of securing another $50 million in investment money,
Hughes said.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow! Only $40 million to build "several" prototypes. I really need to
get into this R&D bussiness.
> This company has been around for a while & has touted it's "demo"
> prototype
> for years. Has anyone EVer had a chance to get a test drive? Lawrence
> Rhodes........
>
> Vectrix was founded by Andrew J. MacGowan, a former senior
> executive for Quadrax Corp., a now-defunct Rhode Island company
> that once made thermoplastic composite material for the aerospace
> industry.
>
> The company was doing contract work on the F-22 fighter jet
> project for Lockheed Martin, according to Plagenhoef.
>
> "The Cold War ended, and no one wanted to buy jets any more," he
> said.
>
> Lockheed executives directed MacGowan to put the F-22 engineers
> to work to develop and build a new product, Plagenhoef said. They
> came up with a two-wheeled electric vehicle, and Vectrix was
> born.
>
> Lockheed Martin is not connected to the company now, Plagenhoef
> said. Vectrix is privately owned, with about 175 shareholders
> that include companies, funds and individuals, Hughes said. The
> second-largest shareholder is Parker Hannifin Corp., of
> Cleveland. That company specializes in, among other things, fuel
> cell technology, Hughes said.
>
> Hughes declined to name the other shareholders, saying they do
> not want to be identified publicly.
>
> Vectrix now has six employees in Newport, 16 in New Bedford and
> about a dozen in Europe.
>
> Bringing the scooter to market has taken eight years, said
> Hughes, mainly because raising money from investors has been
> difficult.
>
> "After 9/11, it was very difficult to raise venture capital,"
> Hughes said. "We couldn't get people's attention."
>
> What did get the attention of investors was the development of
> some prototype models of the scooter. Once they see it and ride
> it, "they get it," he said.
>
> The company has raised $40 million so far, and that has allowed
> it to design and build several prototypes. Vectrix is in the
> process of securing another $50 million in investment money,
> Hughes said.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you offer a controller for these motors?
http://www.mavin.com/index.php?crn=1&rn=362&action=show_detail
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops, posted the same link twice. the third was supposed to be:
http://www.davesevs.com/top.JPG
It's a closeup of the top.
Dave Brandt
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Again I wish to thank all the EV folks that were planing to attend the $5000
race in Tucson this weekend.It would have been nice to get both pho. and
tuc.eaa groups together.I will not be racing in Tucson this weekend due to
weather.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach wrote:
> So I have a question. This truck that is in my yard (94 US_Electricar)
> was shipped over to me in MD. However the owner in CA never titled it
in
> CA, and it's title is a VA title that was signed over to the guy in
CA.
>
> MD won't register it because it needs to be titled in CA. So my
question:
>
> Can you title a car in CA without it having a smog check. I don't need
> CA plates, but if I have to ship this thing back to CA just to have
them
> say "yeah it's electric" makes me wonder. Does the car have to be in
CA
> physically?
Hi Chris,
Titling requirements vary widely from state to state, and sometimes from
person to person in your state's DMV. Stay at it and I think you'll
prevail.
One thing I found out that might be of use: In PA when I titled my US
Electricar Lectric Leopard, the DMV person entered my car's VIN into
their database and it came up as a US Electricar - not a Renault LeCar.
US Electricar was a manufacturer, not a converter. (Well, in the eyes
of the state, anyway.) Since they *never* manufactured an ICE vehicle
it should be easy to get your title to list your truck as an EV. Of
course when I got my registration it still said I needed a smog check.
(Well, don't they all?), but after a few phone calls it was straightened
out.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Vectrix: 50 mph in 6.8 sec, top speed 62 mph)-Long
> Wow! Only $40 million to build "several" prototypes. I really need to
> get into this R&D bussiness.
>
Hi EVerybody;
You got that right, from the land of "money is No Object" $ 600 hammers
and on. With half that bettya I/we could get the Sunrise up and in
production, with Valance ,or something as good, batteries.And throw in the
Freedom EV, too!
I sure like the idea of using thermoplastic stuff that was strong enough
for fighter planes, as I'm sure fighters are designed with weight
consideration in mind. I have my Rabbit torn down for upgrade work, and ,
frankly, it's too damn HEAVY, without the batteries aboard! Still hafta jack
and block this heavy carcuss, to work on it. Doors , seats, hatchback ,
HEAVY!! That's why it was so heartining to be able to be able to carry one
end of a Sunrise, or Freedom body, I couldn't BEGIN to do that with a
Rabbit, although I DID pickup the backend of the Rabbit WITH my hulking , 6'
plus, son, and put it on blox.Of course WITHOUT the batteries aboard!And
without all the cool safety stuff the newer cars have.Conversions are an
excersize in masocism, anyhow, but what else have we got, yet?
Boy! I hope Vectrix can get it's shit together, I know good bux have gone
into it, I hope they have got the Million Dollar Scooter planned so it can
go into production!!I sure HOPE the "Cold War" has ended, for humanities
sake, and the fallout will get to EV's.
Watched a horrifyingly graphic movie on Sci Fi channel, last nite:"The
Day After" Did ya catch it? About a Nuke attack, in USA and Russia."Like the
Song" Nowhere to Run, Nowhere to Hide"Would make EV's sorta irrelivent as
there would be no need, to go anywhere, as there wouldn't be an anywhere,
anymore.The " disclaimer," scrolled through at the end said the flick was
made to give people a " Think about it" It COULD happen on a planet close to
home.and to Be Nice.The nuke waste thing pales by comparison to the Real
Thing!
> > This company has been around for a while & has touted it's "demo"
> > prototype
> > for years. Has anyone EVer had a chance to get a test drive? Lawrence
> > Rhodes........
> >
Hope he has some drivable prototypes!?With that kind of money they coulda
built some?
> > Vectrix was founded by Andrew J. MacGowan, a former senior
> > executive for Quadrax Corp., a now-defunct Rhode Island company
> > that once made thermoplastic composite material for the aerospace
> > industry.
> > Yeah! Right here in the Big East, EVen! Rhode Island? Home of the EV
scooters? Prey for it!
> > The company was doing contract work on the F-22 fighter jet
> > project for Lockheed Martin, according to Plagenhoef.
> >
> > "The Cold War ended, and no one wanted to buy jets any more," he
> > said.
> >
THANK God or the Diety of your choice!
> > Lockheed executives directed MacGowan to put the F-22 engineers
> > to work to develop and build a new product, Plagenhoef said. They
> > came up with a two-wheeled electric vehicle, and Vectrix was
> > born.
> >
Betya they coulda come up with a better EV-1, had they been asked?
> > Lockheed Martin is not connected to the company now, Plagenhoef
> > said. Vectrix is privately owned, with about 175 shareholders
> > that include companies, funds and individuals, Hughes said. The
> > second-largest shareholder is Parker Hannifin Corp., of
> > Cleveland. That company specializes in, among other things, fuel
> > cell technology, Hughes said.
> >
Lockheed coulda probably sold a few Stealth Scooters to Uncle Sap, at
a few mil a piece?
> > Hughes declined to name the other shareholders, saying they do
> > not want to be identified publicly.
> >
Not til it makes some Poz cash flow.
> > Vectrix now has six employees in Newport, 16 in New Bedford and
> > about a dozen in Europe.
> >
> > Bringing the scooter to market has taken eight years, said
> > Hughes, mainly because raising money from investors has been
> > difficult.
> > At a few mil a copy, no surprise!
> > "After 9/11, it was very difficult to raise venture capital,"
> > Hughes said. "We couldn't get people's attention."
> >
Boy! 9/11 was a WAKE UP CALL to the rest of us! IMHO
> > What did get the attention of investors was the development of
> > some prototype models of the scooter. Once they see it and ride
> > it, "they get it," he said.
> >
Freely translated the "EV Grin"
> > The company has raised $40 million so far, and that has allowed
> > it to design and build several prototypes. Vectrix is in the
> > process of securing another $50 million in investment money,
> > Hughes said.
> >
That should put them in production and a netwook of dealers ready to
go!!I woulda said the FIRST 40 Mil shoulda done it, though! IF the things
cost less than a Porsche, to begin with!
> >
> Think of that; 90 MILLION DOLLARS! That's a PILE of money, in one
place!!Enough to hire the best minds on the List, buy a factory, get stuff
drawn up and built!
OK ,back to the Real World. Sigh!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Testing. Please ignore.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Altair Nano is a R&D company BIG on new electrode materials which
(almost) cancil all chance of thermal runaway in LiIon Batteries. Looks
like they are going to build (one) EV to put their Technology where
their Hype Is.. ON the ROAD.
Full Article at:
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=112620
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are several ways to read the indicated percentage. Reading the pack
voltage or each battery voltage is one way if all you have is a volt meter.
A E-meter which is a combination digital meter, than can read voltage,
ampere, wattage, ampere-hour, temperature and percentage. The new Smart
Chargers will have a indication of percentage of charge. I used one to
check out the State of Charge of each separate battery about every six
months for the first 4 years of battery life.
If you have open type batteries where you can sample the electrolyte with a
specific gravity tester, this is what I will do at times to see the
condition of the batteries.
When you install your new set of batteries for the first time, you should
check the voltage, ampere by load testing and specific gravity of each
battery. Put the battery pack under load by driving the EV at normal speed
for the first 5 miles and check the specific gravity again. Repeat this
every 5 miles for about 10 times and this will tell you what the indicated
range of the EV will be.
The following is the battery data for a lead-acid battery for a 12 volt
battery. Just divide the voltage by two for a 6 volt battery. For each
battery cell voltage, divide the voltage by the number of cells. For the
entire battery pack, multiple the total number of cells by 2.11 volts for a
fully charge battery pack.
State of Charge Battery Voltage Specific Gravity
100% 12.74 to 12.90 1.277
90% 12.62 to 12.70 1.258
80% 12.50 to 12.61 1.238
75% 12.46 to 12.49 1.227
70% 12.41 to 12.45 1.217
60% 12.24 to 12.40 1.195
50% 12.20 to 12.23 1.172
40% 11.96 to 12.19 1.148
30% 11.82 to 11.95 1.124
20% 11.68 to 11.81 1.100
Make your measurements of the batteries that has not been charged or
discharged for several hours. The above readings are at a battery
temperature of 25 C. or 77 F.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: When to charge
> Newbie here ...... How do I know when 75% is ??
>
> "charge it when it gets down to 75 percent"
>
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Tim,
> >
> > When you indicator shows 75 percent, this means you are at just
> over 75
> > percent. Years ago, like 30 years, I was told for a long battery
> life,
> > choose the highest ampere-hour battery that you can fit into the
> EV and
> > charge it when it gets down to 75 percent.
> >
> > So this is what I done for the last 30 years. Sometimes, I would
> have to
> > drive four days before I could get down to 75 percent because I
> not driving
> > as far as you are.
> >
> > If I just beginning to show 75 percent, I will at times drive it
> another
> > day, and it will still show 75 percent. I than will charge it at
> that time.
> >
> > If I'am driving a long distance, I will never let it drop below 50
> percent,
> > and I will charge the batteries in with the same day.
> >
> > Lets say the charging cycle life of a battery is 600 cycles. This
> is from
> > 100 percent to 20 percent. If you charge at 75 percent once a
> day, than you
> > used about 1/3 of a cycle per day or 1/2 cycle per day with two
> charges a
> > day.
> >
> > Your estimated life with two charges a day would be about 2 x 600
> = 1200
> > days or 3 to 4 years. I am only charging at 75 percent every 4
> days, so for
> > me 4 days x 3 x 600 = 7200 days or 19 years.
> >
> > My T-145's are now at 4 years, and they are still in perfect
> condition which
> > are balance in with 0.01 volt of each other. I expected to go 10
> years or
> > more with them as I did with the last pack.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "TiM M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 12:16 AM
> > Subject: When to charge
> >
> >
> > > I have a 144V pack of US 145s and a RT daily commute
> > > of 14 miles. I have access to a public charging
> > > station at work. Work is mostly down hill from home so
> > > it takes a little more than twice as much out of the
> > > pack to get home as it does to get to work. I've been
> > > charging at work, driving home, then back to work and
> > > charging again in the morning. Will letting the
> > > batteries sit overnight at ~75% charged shorten their
> > > life? I could charge at both ends but that would
> > > double the number of cycles the pack would see. They'd
> > > be shallower cycles. I'm typically at a 60 to 65%
> > > level when I charge now. If I charged twice per day
> > > I'd be charging at ~90% and 75%.
> > > Your thoughts would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > TiM
> > >
> > > '61 Electric Rampside
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland:
Another newbie Q:
This certainly sounds like the voice of experinece!
Would this also apply to SLA cells?
Actually, if the decrepit cells that came with my scooter are actually 20 AH
still (hah!), my daily trip comes pretty close to drawing 25% already; my
"Watts Up" meter reports 2.75 AH consumed on one way of the trip.
Mark
..................................................
Hello Tim,
When you indicator shows 75 percent, this means you are at just over 75
percent. Years ago, like 30 years, I was told for a long battery life,
choose the highest ampere-hour battery that you can fit into the EV and
charge it when it gets down to 75 percent.
So this is what I done for the last 30 years. Sometimes, I would have to
drive four days before I could get down to 75 percent because I not driving
as far as you are.
If I just beginning to show 75 percent, I will at times drive it another
day, and it will still show 75 percent. I than will charge it at that time.
If I'am driving a long distance, I will never let it drop below 50 percent,
and I will charge the batteries in with the same day.
Lets say the charging cycle life of a battery is 600 cycles. This is from
100 percent to 20 percent. If you charge at 75 percent once a day, than you
used about 1/3 of a cycle per day or 1/2 cycle per day with two charges a
day.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
This is what I am reading on my motor meters and battery meters. I just
install another motor ampere meter circuit yesterday to check against the
existing amp meter and they read the same.
With the CableForm controller it reads 180 ampere at 175 volts at both the
motor and batteries at a steady 50 mph. At start up, the motor ampere does
surge to about 300 amps, but then matches the battery ampere.
With the Zilla, I get 0 to 100 battery ampere and 0 to 400 battery ampere.
At a steady speed, the motor ampere is at 200 amps and the battery ampere is
at 50 amps.
Yes, the GE motor has commentator poles in it. The face of the commentator
is insulated all the way down to the motor shaft. This was pointed out to
me over 30 years ago. If this section of the commentator is not insulated,
than you can have arc over with brush dust on this section. The Warp 9
motor does not have a insulated face except for insulation between the shaft
and the commentator. There is only a 1/8 insulation space between the
commentator and the shaft. I had to keep cleaning the brush dust off the
section and added a large external blower fan on the screen covers to blow
this dust out the bottom. It now gets all over the bottom of the EV.
The field windings and armature windings would read over 20 meg ohms to the
motor enclosure when new or clean. As this brush dust builds up, the
reading would get down below 10 k ohms.
After I did this modification of brushing on motor enamel on the front of
the commentator and adding a blower fan, my motor ampere drop about 10
percent. So they may be throwing everything off.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: Motor Winding
> Roland, I am haveing trouble with a few points, but I am newer to this
> than you.
>
> >From what I have been reading on this list and accross the internet,
> About the 600 charge cycles, Unless the charger is chargeing incorrectly
> and doing damage on each charge, chargeing at the 75% state of charge is
> 1/4 of a cycle, not a cycle. Now on lithium ion chemistries, it is not
> linear. the shallower cycles allow significantly longer cycle life.
> Leaveing the battery in a discharged state is not good. If I understood
> his situation leaving it discharged over night seems counter to what I
> have heard and will shorten their life.
>
> The zilla is not in parallel, it is a series controller, it just has the
> 4th terminal to allow an internal shunt and to provide the gate drive
> circitry with a reference. And probably an internal Power supply, but
> otmar can answer this better.
>
> Your GE motor is a series wound dc motor, like the warp. It sounds like
> it might have interpoles though. Got photo's?
>
> Back to the numbers, They just don't add up. I still don't understand
> why your zilla power was so limited, it should of been more than the
> cableform numbers you mentioned.
>
> If I understand the difference between the 2, the two major power
> sections are
>
> cableform, lowside drive
>
> B+ ---------------------safety contactor------fuse-------A1 A2---S2
> S1-----\___/--------main contactor----- B-
>
> |________|/|________| |
>
> |\|
> Zilla High side drive
>
> B+ -----------------fuse----main contactor-----\___/------A1 A2---S2
> S1----------------------- B-
>
> | |_____|/|___________|
>
> |\|
>
>
> The motor is the only inductor, both use PWM, both are in series, what
> am I missing?
>
>
--- End Message ---
