EV Digest 5351
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Corporate and retail charging installations.Comments
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) MG Premiere Party Report
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: the $5000 car - could use some expert help
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NiCad questions, tools and stuff...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) List of donor cars for vac pump
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) RE: OT was: 300zx for sale
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Coast--down method for aero drag
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Monster Garage
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Monster Garage
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: MG Premiere Party Report
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Hybridize-yourself? Hondas and Plugs?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Prius Classic pack burn out.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Hybrid Technologies LiX-75, Lithium based $125,000 supercar, 200mph
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Plug-in Prius question, some answers
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Nicads tools and stuff...
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Hybrid Technologies LiX-75, Lithium based $125,000 supercar, 200mph
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Monster Garage
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: NiCad questions, tools and stuff...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Mazda conversion advice
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Charging Dead Flat AGMs
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Monster Garage
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 17:42:09 -0700, "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>These digital meters.. do have a peak Kw drawn display.. mine says 41Kw and
>change.... I wonder what happens when It says 50 to 75 and change???
Is this a meter you own that you read to pay your landlord or a
utility meter?
If it's a utility meter then they may or may not read it, depending on
what schedule your landlord is on. Many utilities standardize on one
type of meter for all schedules and simply ignore the data that does
not apply. IOW, that meter may have a demand register only because
that's the standard meter for 3 phase service for that utility.
>
>So.. not much penatly in using a LOT Of kwhr... potentail slam up side the
>head if a peak Kw rate is exceded.
Yup, supplying widely varying and short term peaks costs a lot of
money. The distribution gear (everything from the meter base to the
substation) has to be sized for peak loading. Transformer losses are
a constant percentage of the transformer size so a large transformer
feeding a small load has proportionally higher non-revenue losses.
Plus the utility has to have sufficient rotating reserves (generators
synced but lightly loaded) to pick up those surges because the base
load plants (nukes, coal, large NG and oil plants) can't change output
fast enough. The ideal load from their perspective is one constant
demand 24/7.
>
>Dumping a pack into the grid while doing a masisive draw... sounds like
>trouble... until you get it right.
This is pretty easy to do if you have room for the hardware. What you
need is a 3 phase induction motor connected to an appropriately sized
DC shunt motor. The DC motor should be sized to load your charger
under test. The AC motor (which will also function as an induction
generator) should be sized to load the DC motor. You'll also need a
source of variable DC to drive the DC motor's field (a small
industrial DC controller will work) and misc contactors. 100hp motors
ought to handle what you're working on now plus some.
Here's how this will work. Mechanically connect the two motors
together. Connect your charger to the DC motor's armature. Connect
the DC motor's field to the controller. Connect the AC motor to the 3
phase line through a suitable motor starter.
To use this thing, start the AC motor by closing the motor starter.
Turn on the charger but don't connect it to the DC motor yet. Set it
to the desired test voltage.
Apply field to the DC motor until it is generating the same voltage
and polarity as the charger. Close the DC breaker. Now reduce the
voltage on the field until the DC motor draws the desired current from
the charger. There ya go.
What is happening is this. When the DC breaker is closed and the
field is reduced, the DC motor tries to drive the AC motor faster than
its operating speed. This causes the AC motor to become an induction
generator and feed power out its terminals.
This power, of course, flows to whatever power supply is supplying the
charger's power. We have an "almost perpetual motion machine". The
generated power is always less than the power drawn by the DC power
supply (if you're using one) and the charger because of the losses in
the system. The AC line only has to supply power to make up for the
losses, probably under 10% of the circulating power.
Unless you're going to stand there and watch the meters, you're going
to need some protective instrumentation, of course. Trips to shut
down the motors on loss of field, overheat and so on. Being as this
uses a shunt motor, there isn't any chance of it running away if the
coupling breaks like a series motor can. The worst fault will be loss
of field which will try to make the motor run away while drawing
infinite current as far as the charger-under-test is concerned.
At least in these parts, 100 hp class motors that have been
surplused/salvaged aren't hard to find. There are still a lot of old
relatively low efficiency motors out there that are being replaced.
Seems like there are always a few sitting out for the scrap metal man
at my friendly local motor repairman's shop.
A 50 horse DC motor with plenty of forced cooling air would probably
do the job. These motors are so under-rated for long life that you
can run 'em hard and put 'em up wet, so to speak :-) One of my
clients is running a 600 VDC 50hp motor at about 80hp average on a
large punch press and the only change was adding two cooling blowers.
These are blowers that bolt on in place of the brush inspection covers
and blow high velocity air through the inside of the motor.
Off-the-shelf kits.
I concurred with this decision (lots cheaper than buying a larger
motor!) and did an infrared temperature study of the unit for awhile
to confirm our estimation.
For the DC motor, you'd want to look at the nameplate armature amps
and select one with the size appropriate to your charger's output.
With forced air cooling, the motor can safely absorb a multiple of
that amp rating even at low voltage. A high voltage motor can be made
to absorb its rated amps and beyond simply by turning the field down.
I'd probably try to find a motor with a nameplate rating of about 75%
of the max amps you anticipate producing. You can go larger but it'll
weigh more and take up more space.
Even at your low total energy usage, such a setup would pay for itself
in a couple of years if you can get the motors for scrap value. You
could run the charger longer and at higher outputs if you desire and
you won't be heating up the building in the summer or tickling that
demand register.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A good time was had by all.
The Madman was definitely in his element, as the star of the show. (at
least in our group he was
:^D )
Ken Trough drove down from Bellingham.
(and did an audio interview with Rich after the show which I expect will be
available @ visforvoltage.com soon)
Roderick Wilde _actually left his home_ in Port Townsend and came to
Seattle. A rare event in itself.
Many of the SEVA regulars showed up, including Don Crabtree and Dave Cloud.
Steve Lough (our resident EVangelist and SEVA President) rode his escooter
right into the place with a large "SEVA" sign to put up.
We essentially took over the small bar, and during the show, the entire
place became quiet and everyone seemed to be devoting their full attention
to the show.
It helped that we had Rich there in full animation mode. The locals were
certainly doing a double-take between the TV screen and Rich.
Special thanks to Dave Barden for his efforts in nailing down the venue and
getting them to accommodate us, (and for bringing his Honda 600 sedan EV
converted into a mini-pickup, always a crowd pleaser)
Also thanks to Shawn Lawless for kicking down some of the major components
needed to make the build a reality (two Zilla 2Ks and in particular those
two hard-to-come-by GE motors). Some might say that those were well-spent
advertising dollars.
IIRC, they said that total cash outlay for the build was around $7K,
kick-downs were in the $85K range. (This includes the Milwaukee Tool Co.
V-28 batteries and chargers and all the give-aways to the build team)
...
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
timm is right .. petrol produced pollution that is
invisible .. carbon monoxide .. deadly .. sulphur
and lead oxides .. deadly .. we can't see them'
with eyes .. but city folks suffer from blood
problems
diesel engines have sound and smoke .. soot,
or carbon particles .. those are visible .. and
so look very polluting .. but actually they
pollute a lot less
..peeaky
----- Original Message -----
From: "multi-Timm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 AM
Subject: RE: the $5000 car - could use some expert help
> 2-stroke diesels do not pollute like 2-stroke gasoline engines.
> The fuel only gets injected at the last instant, AFTER compression has
taken place. See howthingswork.com on the topic - either on 2-stroke diesel
engines or locomotive engines.
>
> But hey, it's a preference, because you pack more efficiency into a
smaller package, but we're not stuck on 2-stroke diesel - it can be 4 stroke
diesel or gas as a generator as well.
>
>
> Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Timm,
>
> An EV would be interesting, but I read in your charter on this
> Yahoo group that you want to use a 2-stroke Diesel.
> To me that sounds like the wrong direction - you will increase
> pollution and be far worse than most new cars on the road today,
> so I urge you to re-think this path.
>
> Besides efficiency, there is a lot to gain in a clean car engine
> because a moped is efficient but nobody wants to run it indoors
> and even outdoors it can be bad.
> We have just been through this discussion in relation to use
> of a generator as range-extender for an EV.
> Incidental use may be beneficial, but the consensus is that
> if you need it every trip, then you have the wrong solution.
> The generator on an EV is not different than electric driven
> wheels powered by a generator in your concepts.
>
> If you want to innovate and save the environment, then the
> generator should be comparable to a modern car (Hybrid) or
> better. (Just giving you a challenge here ;-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of multi-Timm
> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 8:59 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: the $5000 car - could use some expert help
>
>
> We are well into the development of our $5000 kit car that pretty much
> anyone can afford. It can be assembled as an EV or a hybrid, depending on
> whether the owner prefers a generator or more batteries in it's place.
> We're well covered on mechanical and design, but we do lack some
> EXPERIENCED experts in electrical. Currently there are only one or two
guys
> who are expert and doing all the pulling in electrical, so the group could
> use an extra person or two on the team. If anyone is interested, you are
> most welcome to join us.
> Hope to see you there:
> autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SmallEfficientVehicles/members
> Timm
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SmallEfficientVehicles/members
>
>
> T!MM! §
> http://www.nrdc.org/wildlife/marine/nlfa.asp
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Inventors-World/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CADoutsourcing/
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SmallEfficientVehicles/
> "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are" (Anaïs Nin)
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Enrich your life at Yahoo! Canada Finance
>
>
>
>
> T!MM! §
> http://www.nrdc.org/wildlife/marine/nlfa.asp
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Inventors-World/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CADoutsourcing/
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SmallEfficientVehicles/
> "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are" (Anaïs Nin)
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Make Yahoo! Canada your Homepage Yahoo! Canada Homepage
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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>
>
___________________________________________________________
Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now.
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Acuti wrote:
I have some general questions as I'm still a newbie:
1. What do you all typically use to insulate your tools for working
around high voltage? I came within a millimeter of blowing myself
across the parking lot and smoking my controller. I suppose I could
wrap with electrical tape but is there anything better?
2. Flooded NiCads were recommended to me by a list member. I have some
questions but I don't think he's in town or my email isn't making it
past his spam filter. So....
a) What are NiCad's flooded with? I don't imagine you add water as
with PbA batteries.
A solution of Potassium Hydroxide (KOH). You can (and do) add water.
b) What is the expected life span of a NiCad pack?
A ball park answer would be "the life of the vehicle."
c) Will my old Lestermatic PbA battery charger work with NiCads?
(220v 40 amp charger)
Can't say -- nicad charging is different from lead-acid. You'll likely
get different answers to this question.
d) My (imperfect) understanding is that the NiCads will deliver the
rated current right up until they are completely discharged unlike
PbA's which drop in output even before the rated time (Puerket's
Effect?) Am I understanding this correctly?
I think the discharge curve (voltage) is flatter than lead.
e) What effect does cold weather have on NiCad's vs. PbA batteries?
Does the range still decrease? How much?
Better in cold weather than lead-acid, but excessive heat is very bad
for them.
Thanks in advance,
Rich A.
81' Comuta Van
Maryland
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have a list of all donor cars that have suitable vac pumps. I
need make, model, and year for some good candidates so I can set them up in the
system so that the yard notifies me when they come in.
Thanks,
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hey, but they're (Nukular) Electric too, which makes it On Topic, right? :-O
bruce bogusz wrote:
Isn't diving usually for submarines?
-----Original Message-----
steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: . I'd like to see this car in
the Fort Pierce rally , diving in the
distance comatition . steve clunn 772-971-0533
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I built one that looked almost exactly like this one
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=870 for my '94
Ranger, except that it was about 5" shy of the top of the cab so I could see
out the rear view mirror. With only this addition (no wheel well fairings
or moon discs) it increased mileage with the 4 cyl from a paltry 19mpg to
22mpg. Slight improvement but not enough for me to keep the stupid thing (4
cyl Ranger that is, couldn't haul anything). Traded it for a 1-ton diesel
that also got 22mpg. Diesel's gone now and I'm going to try a small truck
in electric and hope for 22 miles :-O After seeing these posts on aero drag
though I may take a base line on the electric pickup, build the same type of
fairing and see how many miles it adds for comparison.
If anyone wants to take a zap at the math the 19mpg and 22mpg readings were
taken each based on the average of 3 round-trips from Alameda, CA to Reno,
NV back in the summer of 1995. All trips were at or around the same
temperature and atmospheric conditions. Average speed each time was 65mph.
If you took a SWAG at the stock Cd of a '94 Ranger you might be able to
figure the decrease just the canopy fairing provided.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 10:40 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Coast--down method for aero drag
Has anyone here ever built a boat tail for their car or truck? It's
something I've considered doing only for long highway journeys.
Did it pay off?
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Ricky,
I had those magically appearing motors in storage at my shop.
They were originally coupled together by Bob Boyd and his crew in
Idaho for the
Megawatt Monster which was rebuilt as the Orange Juice. They have
definitely seen their share of punishment.
Rich absorbed more verbal abuse than you can imagine and just kept
coming back for more all the way to the end.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:28:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Monster Garage
Well, just got done watching it, and it was awsome! Poor Rich got
picked on by
Jesse a lot though. Getting all the work done that they did in a week
is
deffinitely impressive, of course a lot of it got done magically like
the dual
coupled motors just appearing.
My single favorite part was when Shaun Lawless was tightening a cable
to a
buss bar on their battery racks with the batteries in the box. He
shorted two
with a wrench creating a nice big spark at which point he just goes
back to
tightening it some more, creates an even larger spark, throws the
wrench on the
floor and yells that he needs a new wrench!
There was also a lot of technical stuff that was left on the cutting
room
floor. You don't get to see really any of the wireing of the car
happen, you
barely see Rich put the controllers in the car. I suppose this stuff
isn't a big
deal to the average viewer.
Rich and Shaun, I give you guys (and the others on the show of
course) credit
for getting that build done on time. Plus it was pretty cool they had
the Tzero
on there for a few minutes and let Rich drive it.
I still gotta go check my other computer, which has my tv tuner card,
but I
should have it recorded.
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and
save big.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don,
There are "Monster Garage" episodes on torrentspy.org. I don't see
the electric car one there (although perhaps it's listed under season
and episode). But I'm sure someone will upload it soon enough ;)
I'd like to see it anyway, and can't otherwise in the UK.
On 4/11/06, Don Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have to agree with Ricky's assessment of this episode of Monster Garage. I
> recorded it
> from DirecTV and have edited out the commercials. It has been burned to DVD
> and saved
> to my pc hard drive.
>
> Not sure how one would go about "sharing" this via the internet or if it is
> 100% copyright
> free. Check out Orb.com I use it for accessing my files over the internet
> Don Davidson
> spaces.msn.com/dbd3
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy,
I'm sure the madman was able to fill every commercial break with the
"real" story.
I realize now how hard it must be to put 7 days of taping into 42
minutes of show.
I kept thinking "why didn't they show that?" on every scene. I already
posted that the motors came from Bob Boyd.
I don't think it was mentioned though that the 2 Zillas ( I believe
Otmar's serial number's 7 and 8) were from the famous Circuit Breaker
dragster.
I wish they would have spent a little time showing our controller
discussions. They took a HUGE beating and never failed.
Considering we didn't even have a disconnect on the last run they
probably saved Jesse's life too. With those Li batteries he may STILL
be driving if they had failed full on. In addition to parting with the
Zillas, Ken Koch from KTA actually drove down from Upland and donated
some well needed parts during the taping.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 00:48:10 -0700
Subject: MG Premiere Party Report
A good time was had by all.
The Madman was definitely in his element, as the star of the show. (at
least in our group he was
:^D )
Ken Trough drove down from Bellingham.
(and did an audio interview with Rich after the show which I expect
will be available @ visforvoltage.com soon)
Roderick Wilde _actually left his home_ in Port Townsend and came to
Seattle. A rare event in itself.
Many of the SEVA regulars showed up, including Don Crabtree and Dave
Cloud.
Steve Lough (our resident EVangelist and SEVA President) rode his
escooter right into the place with a large "SEVA" sign to put up.
We essentially took over the small bar, and during the show, the entire
place became quiet and everyone seemed to be devoting their full
attention to the show.
It helped that we had Rich there in full animation mode. The locals
were certainly doing a double-take between the TV screen and Rich.
Special thanks to Dave Barden for his efforts in nailing down the venue
and getting them to accommodate us, (and for bringing his Honda 600
sedan EV converted into a mini-pickup, always a crowd pleaser)
Also thanks to Shawn Lawless for kicking down some of the major
components needed to make the build a reality (two Zilla 2Ks and in
particular those two hard-to-come-by GE motors). Some might say that
those were well-spent advertising dollars.
IIRC, they said that total cash outlay for the build was around $7K,
kick-downs were in the $85K range. (This includes the Milwaukee Tool
Co. V-28 batteries and chargers and all the give-aways to the build
team)
...
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While we're on the subject, I thought I would toss this out there and
see if there are any takers... Is everyone familure with MIMA, or
Manual IMA? It's a sweet little hack for the Insight (no Civics or
Accords) that enables full assist (or regen) on demand.... <Grins>
... See where I'm going with this? Now slap in some extra batteries and
you've got a PHEV Insight. Granted no ev-only mode, but the mixed-mode
mileage from injecting a few kWh of grid energy into the system could be
substantial! I would only really be practical with Lithium, but it
could be done with Lead simply to demonstrate that it can be done and to
collect data. Anyway, even without the whole PHEV craziness I think
John should get himself a MIMA kit, is Sniffer out of it's warranty yet?
L8r
Ryan (who's trying to finish his own far more insane Insight project)
. . . . . .oO( Otherwise I'd tackle it myself! )
Oh ya, here's a little more about the whole wacky idea:
http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Insight_PHEV
L8r
Ryan
John Wayland wrote:
> Hello to Damon and All,
>
> damon henry wrote:
>
>> Well, I have to admit I did not know that (I quit following the Honda
>> Hybrid list a few years ago)
>
>
> You don't have to follow the Honda Hybrid list, all you have to do is
> stay current with regular car magazines. Pretty much all of them have
> featured the latest improvements and changes of the new hybrids. The big
> news is that Honda's latest version of the Civic Hybrid can run a few
> miles on electric power only, just like the Prius does. Compared to
> Toyota's complex trio of an electric motor-generator, a generator, and
> an ICE all coupled together via sun-planetary gears, Honda gets it done
> in a far simpler, more elegant way with their IMA system (integrated
> motor assist) with just the one motor-generator (less than 3 inches
> thick) sandwiched between the tranny and the flywheel and sharing the
> ICE crankshaft...no extra gears, no convoluted electrical-mechanical
> swapping of power and loads.
>
>>...but in my defense the particular engine being sold appears to be
> from an 05 Civic :-)
>
> That's why I qualified that my comments were for the new 2006 model.
>
> See Ya...John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ralph Merwin wrote:
>>There is a Classic Prius on the toyota-prius list that has a burnt out pack
>>& the dealer will give 3k for it.(that means in my book the car is still
>>wort 10k) Seems to me this is a great time to make it plug in. What is the
>>option now? Anyone done this surgery? Maybe I should contact another list.
>>Thanks for any info.
>
> How about buying the battery pack from a wrecked Prius. They pop up on
> eBay fairly often.
ya, I think you would want to replace the stock pack and try
a hybrid-battery setup with the classic Prius. Should work,
but no one has tried it yet. <wink> <wink> <nudge> <nudge>
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone seen this thing yet?
per http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C7322/
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com Hybrid Technologies LiX-75 Lithium
based $125,000 supercar, 200mph, 3 second 0-60.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> "EV" button on the Prius will just switch to EV mode
> even though the engine is not warm - normally the
> engine heats and runs for the first 5 minutes, so all
> short trips (and especially the first mile leaving home)
> is always very wasteful. The EV button "defeats" the
> warm-up requirement.
I'd say it's closer to 1 minute of warm up time..
> (Actually the EV button issues just an encouragement
> to the Prius to switch to EV mode, the switch is only
> made when depressed, you can depress it repeatedly to
> see when the encouragement is acceptable for the Prius.)
Correct, the button is momentary, and it only "asks" for
EV-mode which will not be entered if the Prius choose to Deny.
> It may also change the threshold at which the engine stops
> and the electric-only mode is entered, I am not sure.
The EV-mode extends the electric only discharge threshold,
versus "Stealth" mode or the normal automatic EV-mode. I
think while 10kW is the max in Stealth, nearly 20kW can be
had while in EV-mode.
It doesn't change any idle-stop (engine stop) thresholds
in as much as it requests idle-stop/EV-mode directly.
> My classic Prius can be driven electric up to 42 MPH, then
> the engine will kick in even when coasting down a hill
> (but it may just turn without fuel!)
> I seem to recall that the max speed for other hybrids and
> the new Prius is lower RPS, although the redline of the
> motors is raised.
The 2004-2005+ EV-mode is limited to 32mph, though stealth mode will
continue out to 42mph like the classic (2000-2003) Prius. I was for
some time under the impression that the new Prius had a higher MG2/MG1
RPM limit which would allow ~72mpg stealth mode before 10,000 rpms was
reached at whichever MG used to have a 6,000 rpm limit in the Classic.
Though for all practical purposes the real limit is 42mph.
>>If you want to use the full capacity of the larger pack,
>>then yes - you need to "upgrade" (replace) the Battery ECU.
Not nessecarily...
>>That has other advantages as well,
>>using "dynamic SOC reporting" the battery convinces the Prius
>>that it is more than full while driving, so the electric
>>motors are always active, helping the gas engine.
>>AS soon as the accelerator is released, the SOC reported
>>is lowered, so the regen is encouraged to recharge the battery
>>(it will refuce to do regen if SOC is over about 80%)
Right, Ideally Toyota would just offer a "battery & charger upgrade"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> If you replace the original pack (288V/4Ah?) with a NiMH pack of the
> same voltage but higher capacity (e.g.-20Ah), will the charge software
> look for the original capacity and kick in the charging as soon as
> it's down the 4Ah, or does it watch voltage curves, too? I know the
> NiMH chemistry is rather "stiff", not dropping voltage until it's near
> fully-discharged, and then hitting 1.0V/cell quite abruptly, so I was
> just curious as to whether a software hack is needed with
> larger-but-the-same battery pack.
I believe that the Prius will "adapt" to a larger pack, I seem to recall
a few people adding multiple stock packs or even PbA, though they did
not grid-charge them.
To the best of my knowledge the SOC algorithms in all the Hybrids is
primarily Counter based, with voltage based correction. In the Prius we
call it "Drift" because we can force the SOC to drift up or down by
supplying a higher or lower voltage to the battery taps where the BMS
takes it's pack measurements. Insight drivers are also familure with
Recals (Recalibration Events) which happens when the counting portion is
mistaken and a voltage limit was reached. It's far more pronounced in
the Hondas Racals, but the drift also exists in the Hondas and we can
exploit it to make the stock computers do what we want (we think...)
L8r
Ryan
Here's everything I know so far http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Prius_PHEV
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David,
Thanks very much for the direct and informative answers to my questions.
Now I only have 3 more questions so I hope you'll indulge me. :)
1. What is considered "hot" weather? I live in Maryland. We have long
stretches of cool weather but the summer has been known to get close to 100
F. I live in a townhouse so my EV is stored outside at night but I park it
in a parking garage during the day.
2. Is it difficult to modify the Lestermatic charger? Is it worth it or
should I just get a Zivan or something? Perhaps you know of a good,
dedicated NiCad charger.
3. Lastly, I'm guessing that my onboard Schumacher 72 volt dumb charger is a
bad idea to use while I'm parked at the Metro? It only pushes 5 or 10 amps
depending on what I select but I don't have a timer circuit for it yet.
Would this damage the batteries if left on at 5 or 10 amps for 10 hours?
Thanks a bunch,
Rich A.
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 00:37:53 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: NiCad questions, tools and stuff...
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body
On 10 Apr 2006 at 20:22, Richard Acuti wrote:
1. What do you all typically use to insulate your tools for working around
high
voltage?
Good quality 3M electrical tape. Others probably have better ideas. You
might try large-diameter heatshrink tubing.
a) What are NiCad's flooded with? I don't imagine you add water as with
PbA
batteries.
The electrolyte is a solution of Potassium Hydoxide. When it's low, you add
distilled water, just as with a lead battery. You should maintain
completely separate watering tools for lead and nicad, as any acid
contamination will ruin the nicads.
b) What is the expected life span of a NiCad pack?
It depends on how it's used, but typically 2-4 times the life of an
equivalent lead battery. Some nicads have served for 10 - 15 years, even
more.
c) Will my old Lestermatic PbA battery charger work with NiCads? (220v
40
amp charger)
It would require modification. The charge control algorithm is wrong for
nicads.
d) My (imperfect) understanding is that the NiCads will deliver the
rated
current right up until they are completely discharged unlike PbA's which
drop
in output even before the rated time (Puerket's Effect?) Am I understanding
this correctly?
Nicads' voltage doesn't fall off very much until they are almost completely
discharged. Then it plummets. This is both good and bad. ;-)
Peukert's effect refers to how current drawn affects the apparent capacity
of lead batteries. It says nothing about their voltage on discharge. It
also doesn't apply to nicads.
e) What effect does cold weather have on NiCad's vs. PbA batteries? Does
the
range still decrease? How much?
Nicads have appreciably less capacity diminution with cold weather.
However, most nicads are more sensitive to damage when operated in very hot
climates, as are NiMH. This makes them most suited to use in cooler
climates.
Hope this helps.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
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Big deal, just another kit car with a motor.
Now how about this:
http://caveviews.blogs.com/cave_news/2004/12/eliica_8_wheel_.html
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lightning Ryan
Sent: April 11, 2006 3:46 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Hybrid Technologies LiX-75, Lithium based $125,000 supercar, 200mph
Anyone seen this thing yet?
per http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C7322/
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com Hybrid Technologies LiX-75 Lithium based
$125,000 supercar, 200mph, 3 second 0-60.
L8r
Ryan
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey All
First off kudos to Rich and Shawn for not killing themselves and certain
people running the show 8^ P
Did anyone else catch the couple of flash-overs on that last run? Being that
I failed to tape it I can't review it but the motors look like the arced about
a 1/4 way into the run and can be seen through the front grill. Can someone
confirm?
Anyways had a blast here watching it with the wife and I got a bunch of peeps
tuned in to watch to, just no party 8^ (
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Acuti wrote:
> 1. What do you all typically use to insulate your tools for working
> around high voltage? I came within a millimeter of blowing myself
> across the parking lot and smoking my controller.
Most people who start working around EVs do not insulate the handles of
their wrenches or the exposed shafts of their screwdrivers. Sooner or
later, they have an "event" that blows a big chunk out of them!
So, most of us "old timers" have insulated our EV tools with electrical
tape, heat shrink tubing, or the rubbery "tool dip".
> 2a. What are NiCad's flooded with?
Water; same as lead-acid. The electrolyte in a lead-acid battery is
sulfuric acid and water. Nicad and nimh use potassium hydroxide and
water. In both cases, when the battery gasses during charging, only
water is lost. So you just have to add distilled water.
> 2b. What is the expected life span of a NiCad pack?
It varies. The little consumer-grade sealed nicads are good for 500
charge/discharge cycles or thereabouts. The big flooded nicads intended
for EV use last much longer, because you can replace the water as it's
lost. They can last 2000 cycles or more.
> 2c. Will my old Lestermatic PbA battery charger work with NiCads?
> (220v 40 amp charger)
If it's the Lester Computime II that came with the ComutaVan; yes, it
can be readjusted to work fine with nicads. It has independent pots to
set charging voltage and current, and uses the dv/dt algorithm that
works well with nicads.
> 2d. My (imperfect) understanding is that the NiCads will deliver the
> rated current right up until they are completely discharged unlike
> PbA's which drop in output even before the rated time (Puerket's
> Effect?) Am I understanding this correctly?
Nicad internal resistance does not change much as they run down; thus
you can draw high currents when they are nearly dead. But you still have
to be careful about high currents. In a long series string of cells,
there will be variations in their capacity. The weakest cell still
limits you. When a cell goes dead, if you continue to draw high current,
it will reverse, seriously overheat, and be damaged or even explode.
> 2e. What effect does cold weather have on NiCad's vs. PbA batteries?
Nicad performance does not fall much when they get cold. You'd have to
get them seriously cold before you'd notice. However, they do not like
heat; you have to cut back on power you draw from them as temperature
rises.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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1) Do you actually have enough places to stash
batteries in? (My Odyssey definitely does not, unless
I take out the rear (ie 3rd) seat permanently.
2) Is it a stick? Most minivans, excepting Dodge
Caravans, are automatics.
3) What _is_ the weight? Take GVWR and subtract
cargo capacity, and you should get it. Then see if
you can make 1/3 of the vehicle weight batteries. Ie,
my Civic was 2220 lbs, stripped of ICE components.
Now as an EV, it's 3330.
peace,
--- Brian Kardell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My family has owned a 1997 Mazda MPV for many
> years, but we blew the engine
> about a year ago and it has been sitting in our
> driveway ever since. We
> decided to look into converting it into an
> alternative energy vehicle rather
> than just buying a new engine or scrapping it. Our
> kids are homeschooled
> and we thought that it would be very educational all
> around, we would get to
> keep our beloved mini-van, save the planet from a
> little pollution and
> potentially wrestle ourselves from the soaring cost
> of petro-fuels. As we
> are newbies to this subject, we are sort of in the
> dark.
>
> We were (are) very interested in BioDiesel, but from
> the data that we've
> found, it seems that it is not possible to convert a
> gasoline powered car by
> simply installing a diesel engine - so apparently
> that is not an option with
> the MPV. Ethanol seems like a good option since the
> conversion looks fairly
> straightforward and cheap, but is really predicated
> on having a reliable,
> working engine. Since the MPV is old and heavy I am
> a little concerned
> about investing so much money to get it running well
> again. EV seems like a
> _great_ option in terms of being maintenable, but I
> am concerned that it is
> too heavy. Given the size of the vehicle, however,
> I am wondering how much
> of the weight is currently in hardware that we would
> be removing anyway.
>
> Can anyone give us some advice.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
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=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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David Sharpe wrote:
> The cell ran at about 2V but when I attempted introducing a low voltage
> source, a variable 0-14V 20A power supply the cell volts "broke free" and
> went to O/C volts again requiring an increase of volts from the other source
> in series with the light bulb to re-establish the cell.
Can you clarify exactly what you are doing here? I'm having trouble
understanding.
1. Are these truly individual 2v cells? I.e. NOT batteries, which
consist
of many cells in series?
2. Did you connect a 14v 20amp power supply to a single cell? If so,
that sounds WAY too high.
> I'll try longer times at low current and perhaps my old trick to
> remove shorts in NiCd cells -- a blast from a 10000uF cap charged
> to 50V.
That trick sometimes works with nicads, because they have a tendency to
short when reversed (i.e. forcing current to flow through a dead nicad).
However, it burns a hole in the separator between the plates. The cell
will thereafter be very likely to short again, and will have a much
higher self-discharge rate.
This trick doesn't work with lead-acids as a rule.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Jim,
One of the things not shown was the fire in the front motor on the
previous run.
Rich can correct me if I'm wrong but I think there were actually 5 or 6
runs not 3.
There were no breaks between runs save to patch together whatever
burned up in the previous run and send the car back out.
On about the 5th run Jesse came back with a fire coming out of the
front motor blower cover inlet. It looked like the insulation was just
happily burning away so we stuck the fire extinguisher in the hole and
let it rip. The fire went out, we slammed the hood, and Jesse went on
his 14.5 run. What you saw were flames coming from the motor which lit
right up again on the final run.
You could have cooked hotdogs over the GE's and they kept on cranking
out the power. Truly awesome components designed for abuse let this car
get to the finish line in (almost) one pc.
Shawn
PS: Can you put together a true 500 peak hp Series DC motor for me and
how long would it take to get my hands on it?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 06:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Monster Garage
Hey All
First off kudos to Rich and Shawn for not killing themselves and
certain
people running the show 8^ P
Did anyone else catch the couple of flash-overs on that last run?
Being that
I failed to tape it I can't review it but the motors look like the
arced about a
1/4 way into the run and can be seen through the front grill. Can
someone
confirm?
Anyways had a blast here watching it with the wife and I got a bunch
of peeps
tuned in to watch to, just no party 8^ (
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
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