EV Digest 5374
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Knee Point - Does anyone understand this?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Public Pay charging stations (Was: Re: Monster Garage)
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Plugging in at Work
by "Jerald Dodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Re EV Safety, WAS: Monster Garage
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: NiCad questions, tools and stuff...
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Who REALLY drives the Most Miles
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Regen question again :-(
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Hybridize-yourself?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Torque'ing a "Time" Machine
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) licience for electric bike in washington state?? tell me it aint so!
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: AC motors
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) electric tractor required
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: AC motors
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Regen question again :-(
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Half-way there....
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: licience for electric bike in washington state?? tell me it aint so!
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: licience for electric bike in washington state?? tell me it aint
so!
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: electric tractor required
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: licience for electric bike in washington state?? tell me it aint
so!
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Maximising torque for racing
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Last Chance - Tour de Sol Monte Carlo Rally invite
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Why have traction batteries increased 50%, was Re: T-125
Equivalent Batteries
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Is this on a GEM? Be careful and change it in little increments at a time, but
turning this up a tad will help get some more RPM's out of the motor. The stock
setting should be 43, I don't knwo if I'd go much beyone maybe 45 here. I will
say this though, the professional reprogrammers do not change this setting.
Turning #7, the min field current, down will gain you the most. If this is a
GEM with the stock motor try 75 for #7, I'd be hesitant to go any lower. 72 and
maybe 70 can be used if it's the aftermarket motor. I was told this is a motor
life issue more than anything. Function 7 is what allows more motor rpm's.
http://www.evtrader.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=75&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Dale Curren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Everyone, Newby here,
The following is a quote from my controller manual.
It has a setting that is not clear to me.
This is controlling a shunt motor. What does it mean by "START" ?
Does it mean that field weakening starts to gradually kick in at some point?
Or, as the next sentence implies, at some point all FW is fully in effect?
It seems contradictory to me.
FUNCTION 24 FIELD WEAKENING START (or MOTOR KNEE POINT)
This function allows for setting the armature current at
which minimum field current will be achieved.
Range 0 to 350 Amps
Setting 0 to 255
Resolution 1.625 per set unit
Example: Setting of 26 = 42 amps.
Dale Curren
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
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As an aside, I have to note that sooner or later some asshat legislator
is going to note that an EV charging station is a fuel for use on public
roadways, and as such should be subject to a highway tax.
If it was not a dedicated EV charging station, just an outlet than an RV
could also be plugged into, then it would be impractical to apply a road
tax. Well, with gasoline they charge the road gas tax at the pump on
the reasonable assumption that it will be used on the road, and you can
keep the receipt and later claim a rebate if you don't use the fuel on
the road. So a pay outlet might have an EV road tax on it and if you
used it for your RV A/C instead you could get a rebate.
Here's another thing. Wal-Mart has an unofficial policy of allowing
RV'ers to camp in their parking lots. And that happens a lot if you
ever look for them. An outlet, pay or not, that could be used to run an
A/C and lighting might make it so they never leave. Not sure if
customers living in the parking lot is a good thing or a bad thing?
And I tell ya as a guy with a camper van having 110v to run an A/C is a
godsend in Texas much of the year. If a converter could be rigged up
(and it's certainly possible) I could see people sneaking up to an EV
charging station and making use of the power for unintended purposes.
Kind of heinous if the power were free. Really this is only like $1 a
day, but it would keep an EV from being able to use it.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
Ralph Merwin wrote:
I have heard (but couldn't find cofirmation of the fact) that if a
business were to sell electricity it would be considered a public
utility and regulated as such. This would prevent many businesses
from installing coin-op charging stations. Does anyone know if this
is true or not?
Yes, this is true. Long, long ago, the power companies demanded monopoly
agreements with virtually every community before they would wire the
town to "the grid". These agreements still stand. They are occasionally
used to stop some "upstart" from daring to try to sell the excess power
he generates with his own generator, windmill, or PV array to anyone but
the power company.
However, there are ways around them. RV parks, marinas, and the
"convenience" outlets on parking meters for engine block heaters all
provide "free" electricity -- but you pay for the parking place or right
to plug in. Some areas have local ordinances to let landlords resell
electricity to tenants.
WalMart could label the fee for using the outlets anything they like
*except* for calling it a charge for electricity, and the power company
would be powerless to object.
Of course, if utilities had any brains, they would offer a coin-operated
electric outlet themselves! Same concept as a pay phone, but for
electricity.
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I've been using my EV to commute the round trip distance to my state job for
the past 4 years without recharging during the day. We recently moved to a
new building further from my home, making it impractical to continue
commuting in my EV without an opportunity charge. The new office has 18
recharging stations intended for "electric state vehicles or private
vehicles used for state business". Since the state doesn't currently have
any electric vehicles, the charging stations are not being used.
The state is considering whether it is ethical for employees to use the
recharging stations to top off the charge for their private electric
commuter vehicles - see 4/16/2006 article in The Olympian
(http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060415/NEWS/6041500
1)
Have any of you gained approval from a government employer to recharge
private EVs during the work day, either on a fee basis or for free?
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The guy is now suing the DEA (the agency he worked for) for releasing
the tape, that because of it he became a laughingstock and it hurt his
career. Oh the irony.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0411061foot1.html
There'a a link to the original video there.
Danny
Bill Dennis wrote:
OT: There's a real video floating around the web right now of a gun safety
expert giving a gun safety presentation to a group of school kids. He's
just said something like, "I'm the only one here right now qualified to
handle this weapon." Then he shoots himself in the foot.
Bill Dennis
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c) Will my old Lestermatic PbA battery charger work with NiCads? (220v
40 amp charger)
The short answer is No. Not without a lot of additional circuitry that
pretty much adds up to a new charger.
Depends. For batteries like the BB600's, the dumb as donuts charger in
the Elec-Trak works very well. By the time it gets over 45 volts the
batteries are pretty much full and the current is down from 22a to 1a.
Not quite. Either battery will deliver rated current right up until they
are "dead" the difference is that PbA will drop in voltage during the
whole discharge period where Nicad's voltage stays almost even right up
until near the end.
I have noticed the bb600's slip a little bit as they get discharged.
They may start out at 1.3 volts per cell at full charge then drop down
to about 1.0 volts when drained. Once they go dead though, the tractor
pretty much stops.
As for cold, a string of 60 BB600's laughed in the cold as they were
putting out 150-200+ amps to blow snow all morning. I went 50ah into the
pack before I got bored blowing snow back and forth. Then 3 months later
I tilled the garden (80-100a draws), ran out of power, then realized I
forgot to charge after the snow.
No problems. NiCDs don't mind being left partially charged or even flat
dead. In fact you're supposed to store them shorted out. When I get the
truck online, one thing I will do is have a protocol of draining the
pack to zero and shorting it before working on it.
Chris
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I am a perpetual lurker but must DE-Cloak for this one.
I drive 75 miles a day to work. I own a Electric Fiero that could make the
daily 35 mile trip to work, however the company I work for doesn't want to
provide a plug in for me to recharge in the parking lot, even if I pay for the
electrons I will use.
Power is readily available in the parking lot (lamp poles everywhere). The
facilities people said it will cost $4k to put in an outlet, (I really need to
apply for their job.)
Then there is the problem of giving me a dedicated parking spot (even thou
the parking lot is never more than 1/2 full).
The company espouses a concern for the environment but I guess its not that
big a concern. I have talked to several managers who are supportive of my EV
but the bean counters have the final say & I'm not going to fork out $4k for a
plug in.
So until the prevailing wisdom changes I drive a Diesel Rabbit that I
converted to run on vegetable oil to work and drive my E-Fiero on weekends.
I work with a lot of really smart people who whine about the price of gas
and still buy a 10 to 15 MPG SUV . Then drive alone to work rather than car
pool.( its either inconvenient to pick up someone else or go to work and go
home on time).
The majority of them think my EV and Vegi Rabbit are kind of a neat oddity
and even thou both are good for the environment and are economical to operate,
they would be just too much of a hassle for them to have one. The wife
wouldn't use it because she wouldn't plug it in when she got home and would be
miffed if it ran out of juice because she pushed it too far.(Good point) HMMM
I
wonder who she is mad at when the SUV runs out of gas?? They also cant do
without the SUV that sits in the parking lot all day. I can't figure out how
the wife uses it when its sitting in the parking lot anyway.
In all honesty both the EV and the Vegi Rabbit require a little extra
futzing around with -plugging in at night & obtaining Vegi Oil.- But it's
worth it
to me.
The last objection I usually hear is that people don't feel safe in little
cars without front & Rear airbags with side curtains. What if I get hit by a
semi truck doing 70 miles an hour???
When I ask how many accidents they have been in, most say none, other than
the parking lot fender benders. When I ask why they don't have a roll cage
installed to make their SUV withstand a hit by a SEMI Truck the answer is "
But
a Roll cage would not look good in the Lincon Navigator & would cost an extra
$1500 to install".
They are really taken aback when I tell them that all the suburban assault
vehicles they refer to as SUVs should have the airbags ripped out and sharp
objects installed on the inside so their drivers would pay a little attention
to everyone else on the road.
Attitudes and perceptions need to change before the general public will
embrace the EV, alternate fueled vehicles, and of course most of the current
advertising really seems to be aimed in a totally different direction.
Rant mode off.
Cloaking again
EV Grin still in place
Pat Sweeney
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Jeff Shanab wrote:
> No-one commented on the idea I posted about a simple regen for
> typical series dc and zilla set up. I am still wondering if this
> would work but also I have some more questions.
[circuit snipped for the ASCII-challenged]
The basic idea is that during regen, the controller runs just the series
motor's field. The generated armature voltage flow back into the pack
thru a big diode.
It can work, but there are some problems to overcome.
> First of all can the zilla power the field only like this?
Yes, it can. The field provides most of the inductance that the
controller needs for its current limit to work. The Zilla can switch
fast enough to limit the current unless you have a very high pack
voltage and very low voltage motor.
> With this scenario, will the advance on the motor still be an issue?
Yes. If you advance the brushes to optimize it for motoring, it will
make the arcing worse during regen.
To solve this, you'd need either adjustable brush rigging, or a motor
with interpoles, or a low enough pack voltage so the armature voltage
isn't high enough to be at serious risk.
> What kind of voltage are we talking about?
The armature voltage can be estimated as Varmature = K x Ifield x RPM,
where K is a constant for your particular motor, Ifield is the field
current, and RPM is the motor's speed. To get "high" voltage (i.e. full
pack voltage), you need high field current and/or high motor rpm.
This is the big limitation with this circuit. You can get reasonable
amounts of regen only at high motor rpm, or with very high field
currents.
> Could a small 120V hawker pack capture the surge of regen then drive
> the PFC to put it in the main pack slowly over time?
That's a possibility. Maybe even regen into your 12v accessory battery.
It could not accept much power (you'd only get a mild "engine braking"
effect), but due to the low voltage, you could regen right down to
almost zero speed.
However, the PFC chargers are not isolated. If you used it, you'd need a
separate 12v battery for regen. Or perhaps, use the 12v battery at the
end of the propulsion pack, and then while driving, use the PFC to move
charge back out of it to the rest of the batteries in the pack.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Hello to All,
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Doesn't the CVT version get lower gas mileage than the standard?
If so, why would you want to use something that lowers your fuel efficiency?
Peter, I'm disappointed, as it appears you must have hit the 'delete'
key and not read my many posts about this topic over the past couple of
years :-( The CVT has nothing to do with the drop in mileage of the
Insight equipped with it.
To recap....At the time Honda and Toyota were introducing the hybrids to
the US market, they were in very stiff competition with each other over
the new idea of mass marketed hybrids:
(1) Honda caught Toyota with their pants down, big time (even Toyota
admits this) when they brought the Insight to the US market a full year
ahead of the Prius (even though Prius was marketed elsewhere at the
time). Only available as a 5 speed manual at first, the Insight achieved
a ULEV status while also getting a staggering 70 mpg EPA rating! The 5
speed Insight uses lots of tricks to achieve super high, previously
un-heard of mpg levels including its all aluminum body, super aero
shape, its lowered stance, and of course, the whole hybrid-electric
assist thing, but it also employs a special lean burn ultra light weight
(124 lbs.) 3 banger engine that helps it achieve this mpg (my personal 5
speed Insight logs 90+ mpg easily at 62 mph constant speed and gets in
the 80 mpg range without any special effort). Using lean burn though,
makes it hard to control NOx emissions, thus the ULEV instead of SULEV
rating.
(2) To trump Honda, when Toyota finally got around to introducing the US
to the Prius, though its mileage was nowhere close to the two seater all
aluminum Insight, it did seat four and was still able to get in the
55-60 mpg range while boasting a cleaner SULEV rating. Though actually
transmission-less, the Prius' automatic nature of its drive train (no
shifting required) made it unpopular to those who prefer to shift, but
very popular for those who prefer automatic trannys.
(3) To fight back, Honda introduced the CVT option for the Insight (and
the Hybrid Civic). To match the Prius' automatic nature, Honda also had
it now with the CVT, and to match the SULEV rating, Honda dropped the
lean burn capability on only the CVT model Insight. They ended up with
the SULEV rating they wanted, but the car's stellar 70 mpg EPA rating
fell to 56 mpg. Many who don't know this stuff, explain away the drop in
mileage as being the fault of the CVT. In reality, the CVT Honda uses is
as efficient (perhaps even more efficient) as the 5 speed...it's the
lack of lean burn mode that made the mileage plummet to the level of the
Prius.
There are things one can do to keep their 5 speed Insight to keep it
from shifting into its lean burn mode while driving, and when you do so,
the 5 speed Insight gets pretty much identical mileage to its brother
the CVT Insight. In terms of acceleration power, the CVT Insight is a
dead match to the 5 speed Insight, so kudos to the efficiency thing for
the CVT....it doesn't rob the car of acceleration power at all.
For a time, I owned two Insights at the same time, my silver 2000 5
speed and a red 2001 CVT:
(1) In my 5 speed, as you get up to cruising speed and slightly let off
the gas to level your speed off, there's a cool feeling you get as you
watch the informative dash display and see the instantaneous mpg readout
flutter at around 65-70 mpg, then suddenly it pops up to 90-110 mpg as
you also feel a bit of a floating-like push of the car as its high tech
3 banger makes the hyper mileage jump into lean burn...very cool, very
entertaining, and something all of us talk about that are fortunate
enough to own one of these amazing machines. Then as road terrain goes
up and down slightly, instead of the mpg going up and down, you see the
dash indicator for the electric motor assist coming and going as it
fills in the voids where, because of the lean burn's lack of torque, the
engine needs a little help...again, very cool and fun.
(2) In my CVT Insight, as you got up to cruising speed and slightly let
off the gas to level your speed off, that cool feeling I get with my
lean burn car is gone, and the instantaneous mpg readout just continues
to flutter at around 65-70 mpg, never popping up to 90-110 mpg level,
and that cool floating-like push of the car at the hyper mileage jump
into lean burn never happens :-( As road terrain goes up and down
slightly, you still see the dash indicator for the electric motor assist
coming and going to help out, but not nearly as often because the 3
banger is in a more normal fuel-air ratio so torque is improved
slightly, and, the CVT does an excellent job of keeping the ICE in its
sweet spot. As a side bar, I was never, ever able to even get close to
the same gas mileage as my 5 speed Insight, but I was able to hit 72 mpg
on one 200 mile trip. On that same trip where my wife was following me
in the 5 speed car, she got 86 mpg.
See Ya......John Wayland
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Hey all
Father Time just left after a couple of days here at the shop where we
completed some upgrades to his bike FrankenDragon. I guess Im a bit ahead of
myself so Im going to sprinkle a little of that dust Father time left me and
go back to the beginning (poof)
Ft arrived Wednesday evening just as John Wayland was heading back after a
day working on my side of the mountain. After dinner FT and I stayed up a bit
later than we normally would just giddy about things to come, and found morning
arriving post haste. Amy fed FT some breakfast and we shot to the shop to see
what was in Father Times truckload of tricks. Along with his bike he brought
a load of his own Hall of Flame collection. Well boys and girls FT can kill a
motor bout as good as Ive ever seen 8^ )
The main purpose of the trip was to upgrade the motor as he just bumped the
voltage from 72 to 120 volts on the bike. Being the motor is a 12-volt rated
lift motor its now looking at 7 times that amount even with battery sag.
Sooooo began our two-day journey to hack ol Franken Dragon in true Franken
style.
Being that the High Voltage Nationals are only a month away, and a bit far
from home, and the fact that hes now packing a 120 (untried) volts he wanted a
back up motor as well as have me go through the original motor.
Thursday consisted of tearing into multiple motors and a lot of prep work and
the feeling that not a damn thing was done except scratching our heads like
monkeys a lot. Ft had brought a slightly longer motor than the original 6 but
it had a splined shaft. He also brought with him a matching coupler (for just
such emergencies) and got a new sprocket from a local bearing house here.
Between Fts junk and my junk we now had several different ways to Franken up
some motors with only what do we cram into the shells as the fork in our road
as Thursday evening fell. Guess what we talked about till midnight (I mean
Jessica I had FT in bed by ten, lmao)(trying to get on the "Jessica trust"
list, hehe).
Friday morning arrived earlier than naturally possible and it hinted at some
mischievous Time shifting due to FTs eager greed over what would soon be
breathing to life. Today I had a huge ass plate of motor tweek-a-roni and had
my doubts as to how the hell we were going to get it done. Added was a need to
get Marko his motor as he also intends to bring out to Joliet this May.
Arriving at the shop we made our choices for the motors and I got busy. Ft
attacked the sprocket side of things and begun machining down the spline
coupler to prep it for the new sprocket. Now this coupler was 10 boxes of
Viagra hard and really unhappy about being modified to work yet again in
another of FTs monsters. FT Vultured over my lathe and I heard awful, wicked
sounds like the slaughtering of animals shadowed by sinnister laughter, but in
the end (several bit sharpenings later) he tamed the beast and a new part was
born. The new sprocket came easily, and willingly as it had no previous
knowledge of FTs true nature, lmao!!
In the end we finished him not just one extra motor but two! I through a
little love onto the original motor with a comm turn and some bearings, and to
my utter surprise Even finished up Markos motor. So after a looong 13-hour
day (still dont know how he does that, hehe) we limped home for some cold
pizza and bed.
Saturday morning found us loading EVerything up at the shop and then off to a
restaurant to fuel FT up for a long drive home. Wouldnt you know it, but
after two beautiful days here the mountains got pounded by a storm and dumped a
bunch of snow and FTs decided to take a longer but snow less route to a stop
off at Waylands before heading homeward.
He had planned to make some runs at PIR tonight but rain has settled in and
so will not be the case 8^ ( It wont be long though before hell be
throwing the switch and pumping current into this new and improved monster and
I cant help but picture him screaming its alive as he races down the track.
Thanks for letting me share, it was such a pleasure and privilege to work
along side a true master hack, lmao!! In the end there were many things I wish
could have installed a better or new part but, we did what we could with what
we had and had a blast doing it and someTimes thats where the magic happens
8^ )
Id really like to stress here that there are some folks out west that are
really pushing to ready their EVs for the May Illinois race and for any of you
who might be teetering on the fence to make the effort and attend. Wayland I
know has never been that far east with WZ, and I know EVeryone here is pumped
about the Event! Alas my Father Time powder has run out and so I bid you all a
fare goodbye.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Ps: I almost called this post Hi-Times. Although we werent smoking dope
one would think we were, LMAO!!!
8^ P
Pss: I didnt grab to many pics but I got a few Ill post after some re-coup
time, FT worked my butt off, hehehe.
---------------------------------
Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min
with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
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Hi
I am heading down to visit my cousin in the san juan islands and
phoned the cops for confirmation that I didn't need a licience and
insurance for a motorino XP electric scooter bike (pedals, 500w,
32kmh(<20mph) (looks like a scooter) (http://www.e-ride.ca) they took
a look at the picture on e-ride and said ... it's a scooter and needs
lic and ins! The fellow at eride maintains that people in the Seattle
area have these and ride them without lic & ins.
Does anyone have any fast links to an Official looking, easy to
access and understand document helping to determine that this is in
fact an electric bike and dosn't need a licience and insurance? I'd
like to nip this miscommunication in the bud!
I'd hate to get off the ferry on the other side and get a $700.00
ticket and not be able to ride the whole time I'm there!
Thanks
Tom
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On 15 Apr 2006 at 11:16, Dmitri Hurik wrote:
> For
> the same dollars for DC....listen up newbies and pro AC folks, you get
> up to 600 kw!!!!
That kind of power is completely unnecessary - I'm tempted to say ludicrous -
in a street vehicle. It belongs on a dragstrip.
There are some very good DC controllers, but I will go out on a limb and say
that *in general* the available AC drives are more refined and sophisticated
than most DC drives *considered as a set*. Partly this comes from close
matching of the motor and inverter, and partly it come from the fact that
the higher cost pays for more features and refinement. There are a lot of
engineering person-hours in the Solectria, Brusa, and Siemens drives.
Ah, nothing like a good old fashioned EV list AC vs DC flame war. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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i would like to know if anyone has or knows of an electric tractor in or
near vancouver, bc. i would like to rent such a device in order to prepare
up to two acres of land. if the tractor has a non-standard output drive,
then i would also require some kind of roto-tiller or ploughing device
that would be attached to the tractor.
the tractor may have solar panels on it, which would be nice, though it
will be vital that it can be charged from a standard 110 volt ac power
supply, since vancouver bc is not exactly hawaii when it comes to solar
radiation (at this moment, 12.33pm, the solar radiation at the farm is 375
w / m2 - not exactly wonderful - details here:
http://energyfarm.postcarbon.org/Current_Plus.htm).
the need for this tractor is fairly urgent.
thanks,
jd
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On 15 Apr 2006 at 10:32, Alan Smith wrote:
> Are the AC motors that much better than the DC ones?
An eternal debate on this list. Go to one of the archives (listed at
http://www.evdl.org/help/ ) and search on "AC drive" or "AC motor" - you'll
find plenty of discussion.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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HI Lee,
I totally understand this idea. At what current would the field be in
serious trouble, i am running a K series ADC 6.7 inch. Pack voltage is 72
volts same as the rated voltage of the motor.
I am planning to PWM the current into some ultra caps and during
acceleartion PWM the power out from the caps via constant voltage discharge
on the output side.
Or its probably better to charge up the caps which are rated at a lower
voltage like you mentioned and then PWM the current out of them using a
Boost topology.
What do you think?
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Regen question again :-(
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:37:49 -0500
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> No-one commented on the idea I posted about a simple regen for
> typical series dc and zilla set up. I am still wondering if this
> would work but also I have some more questions.
[circuit snipped for the ASCII-challenged]
The basic idea is that during regen, the controller runs just the series
motor's field. The generated armature voltage flow back into the pack
thru a big diode.
It can work, but there are some problems to overcome.
> First of all can the zilla power the field only like this?
Yes, it can. The field provides most of the inductance that the
controller needs for its current limit to work. The Zilla can switch
fast enough to limit the current unless you have a very high pack
voltage and very low voltage motor.
> With this scenario, will the advance on the motor still be an issue?
Yes. If you advance the brushes to optimize it for motoring, it will
make the arcing worse during regen.
To solve this, you'd need either adjustable brush rigging, or a motor
with interpoles, or a low enough pack voltage so the armature voltage
isn't high enough to be at serious risk.
> What kind of voltage are we talking about?
The armature voltage can be estimated as Varmature = K x Ifield x RPM,
where K is a constant for your particular motor, Ifield is the field
current, and RPM is the motor's speed. To get "high" voltage (i.e. full
pack voltage), you need high field current and/or high motor rpm.
This is the big limitation with this circuit. You can get reasonable
amounts of regen only at high motor rpm, or with very high field
currents.
> Could a small 120V hawker pack capture the surge of regen then drive
> the PFC to put it in the main pack slowly over time?
That's a possibility. Maybe even regen into your 12v accessory battery.
It could not accept much power (you'd only get a mild "engine braking"
effect), but due to the low voltage, you could regen right down to
almost zero speed.
However, the PFC chargers are not isolated. If you used it, you'd need a
separate 12v battery for regen. Or perhaps, use the 12v battery at the
end of the propulsion pack, and then while driving, use the PFC to move
charge back out of it to the rest of the batteries in the pack.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
_________________________________________________________________
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I am about half way done with installing 252 BB600 batteries in the S10
pickup truck.
This is taking forever. As of now all the batteries are washed, dried,
buffed, and in the box along with the POR15 paint and the plastic liner.
About 120 of them are interconnected, and I'm completely bored with this
project. However they do fit very nicely in the box. Snug, but not so
tight they're difficult to remove.
Ah well. Should have the rest connected by next weekend. Then I'll use
the variac and a rectifier to do a one time 2ah "jump start" charge on
each side of the pack, then plug in the Dolphin and let it charge on up.
It's just dull as dirt. Rich, I have no idea how you interconnected all
those Lithium batteries.
Chris
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Hello Tom,
A E-bike or electric bike is not a motor scooter, even if you have a motor
on a scooter that cannot go over 20 mph. Electric bikes are regulated by
the consumer product safety commission.
The Laws relating to electric bikes are classified by the Federal government
if the motor is less than 750 watts and a top speed of less than 20 MPH.
See http://www.cycleies.com/information.asp
http://www.pilgrimebike.com/ebike_links.htm
Make a copy and keep it with you machine all the time.
Here in Montana, when the U.S. had a maximum speed limit of 55 during the so
call fuel shortage. I kept a copy of the Montana 55 mph law in by electric
car. We did not have a speed limit before.
I got stop one time going down a long hill where the EV would get up to 75
mph and start to generate power back to my batteries and the extra speed
would take me all the way down a steep 2 mile hill and another 2 miles on
the level going thru the exit and right into my garage without using any
more energy.
The officer stop me, and said I was going over 55 mph. I was waiting about 6
years for this to happen. I said I know that. But when you stop me, you
cause be to waste energy to make it home. I now will have to apply more
energy to make it home and that is against the law.
I pull out the Montana law which states "to save energy, you shall drive at
55 mph to save a valuable fuel source". I was therefore making a energy
fuel, and the 55 mph speed would waste energy, because I would have to keep
braking the EV to keep it from increasing in speed.
I gave the officer a tour of the EV and I left him in a daze. He did not
site me.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Watson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 1:59 PM
Subject: license for electric bike in washington state?? tell me it aint so!
> Hi
> I am heading down to visit my cousin in the san juan islands and
> phoned the cops for confirmation that I didn't need a license and
> insurance for a motorino XP electric scooter bike (pedals, 500w,
> 32kmh(<20mph) (looks like a scooter) (http://www.e-ride.ca) they took
> a look at the picture on e-ride and said ... it's a scooter and needs
> lic and ins! The fellow at eride maintains that people in the Seattle
> area have these and ride them without lic & ins.
>
> Does anyone have any fast links to an Official looking, easy to
> access and understand document helping to determine that this is in
> fact an electric bike and dosn't need a license and insurance? I'd
> like to nip this miscommunication in the bud!
>
> I'd hate to get off the ferry on the other side and get a $700.00
> ticket and not be able to ride the whole time I'm there!
>
> Thanks
> Tom
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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Tom Watson wrote:
Hi
I am heading down to visit my cousin in the san juan islands and
phoned the cops for confirmation that I didn't need a licience and
insurance for a motorino XP electric scooter bike (pedals, 500w,
32kmh(<20mph) (looks like a scooter) (http://www.e-ride.ca) they took
a look at the picture on e-ride and said ... it's a scooter and needs
lic and ins! The fellow at eride maintains that people in the Seattle
area have these and ride them without lic & ins.
Does anyone have any fast links to an Official looking, easy to
access and understand document helping to determine that this is in
fact an electric bike and dosn't need a licience and insurance? I'd
like to nip this miscommunication in the bud!
I'd hate to get off the ferry on the other side and get a $700.00
ticket and not be able to ride the whole time I'm there!
Thanks
Tom
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
It appears to have many restrictions when not registered:
http://moped2.org/laws/Washington.htm
And yes, that would be classified as a moped, not an electric-assisted
bicycle.
On a side not, two years back the local Kmarts in Pierce county (Tacoma)
sold a cheaper knock-off that looked just like this. Disappeared pretty
quickly...
Since you can't ride them on the sidewalk or bicycle paths (yeah, I
know, stupid as all heck), and you can't ride them on many roads without
registration, mopeds have had a hard time in Washington outside of
colleges and city centers.
~ First vehicle was a moped in Tacoma, WA ~
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IIRC, there is someone at the Seattle Electric Vehicle Association (SEVA
http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/Main_Page ) that has such a vehicle.
IIRC, a photo of it was on the SEVA calendar.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 12:37 PM
Subject: electric tractor required
> i would like to know if anyone has or knows of an electric tractor in or
> near vancouver, bc. i would like to rent such a device in order to prepare
> up to two acres of land. if the tractor has a non-standard output drive,
> then i would also require some kind of roto-tiller or ploughing device
> that would be attached to the tractor.
>
> the tractor may have solar panels on it, which would be nice, though it
> will be vital that it can be charged from a standard 110 volt ac power
> supply, since vancouver bc is not exactly hawaii when it comes to solar
> radiation (at this moment, 12.33pm, the solar radiation at the farm is 375
> w / m2 - not exactly wonderful - details here:
> http://energyfarm.postcarbon.org/Current_Plus.htm).
>
> the need for this tractor is fairly urgent.
>
> thanks,
> jd
>
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Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Tom,
A E-bike or electric bike is not a motor scooter, even if you have a motor
on a scooter that cannot go over 20 mph. Electric bikes are regulated by
the consumer product safety commission.
The Laws relating to electric bikes are classified by the Federal government
if the motor is less than 750 watts and a top speed of less than 20 MPH.
See http://www.cycleies.com/information.asp
http://www.pilgrimebike.com/ebike_links.htm
Make a copy and keep it with you machine all the time.
Yeah, I started with that info when I decided to buy one for/with my
first job (buss-boy at a restaurant) when I was 16. But a ticket later
on the weekend at a local park, I found out that Washington has specific
definitions and laws on mopeds and electric-assisted bicycles (many
counties override/supplement a few of those as well). The federal laws
only apply when there is no local code - according to the officer.
Of course, it all depends on the individual official you talk to. Some
may not care or know. But the courts around here love pointing out those
beloved RCWs (Regional Code of Washington), so beware... I would follow
the RCW if you want to be on the safe side.
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It was a field current controller that would hold the armature current
constant by varying the field. The idea was to PWM across the series field
winding to actively field weaken a series motor.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: Maximising torque for racing
> At 12:39 AM 15/04/06 -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
> >I designed one of those for Silverado but have never had the chance to
build
> >it.
>
> The peak voltage/current tracking field controller, or the silver wound
> motor? :^)
>
> > > Off the line, 100% field, ramp up the armature in current limit. Once
the
> > > armature drops out of current limit, start to back off the field to
hold
> > > the armature current in a 'window' a little below the current limit
value.
> > >
> > > That'd keep the motor pulling as hard as you could go, all the way
down
> >the
> > > strip. A "deep pockets" job, I guess, but cheaper than silver-winding
a
> > > motor...
>
> I'm guessing the peak voltage/current tracking field controller? What
> were/are your thoughts on it? Seems to me that to hold torque at maximum
> (holding armature amps and volts at maximum by field control) should give
> best acceleration, but what traps did you find whilst designing it? Or is
> this a question to discuss on the EVtech list?
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
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Did Subaru or Mitsubishi decide to show?
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All,
I've been wanting to post this question for about a month or so now. As
I've posted before, I've needed batteries for the truck for months now,
having put 20k plus miles on the old pack, but my supplier quoted me $120
each for Trojan T-145's, when just two years ago October I paid $80 each!
As I recall, the U.S. equivalent wasn't much cheaper. Also, as I've posted
before, when gas is $2.80 per gallon I was breaking even on electricity
($0.04/mile) AND a new pack, but with the battery cost increase gas would
need to be pushing $4/gallon now! We hear all about how the battery
manufactures want our old lead to make new batteries, and suppliers will
charge a core fee if you don't have old lead, and granted virgin lead has
increased in price, but are the manufactures using enough virgin lead to
justify the current costs? My EV grin is turning to a frown...
50,000 plus eelectric miles on the buggies, and a counting,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenagers)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the EV-1!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa only!)
>Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:25:17 -0700
>From: "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Rush,
>
>In 2003 my price was $49 each for 17 plus tax.
>
>Thanks,
>Mike
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:00:57 -0700
>From: Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>And what was your price?
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