EV Digest 5391
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Honda 600 (in Texas?)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: determining what motor type I've got
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Round Trip Range on 48 volts
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: comparison of manufactured battery chargers?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Bucking in first gear
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: longest range?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Bucking in first gear
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Light bulbs plus zeners
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery comparison- Thanks for the answers.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Light bulbs plus zeners
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Round Trip Range on 48 volts
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Round Trip Range on 48 volts
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) AGM + flooded together, quick and low cost per mile?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brad Baylor)
14) Re: Bucking in first gear
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Round Trip Range on 48 volts
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Round Trip Range on 48 volts
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Vacuum packed aircraft generators!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) My Ghia - Was: Re: longest range?
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Round Trip Range on 48 volts
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Albright Contactor rework
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Honda 600 (in Texas?)
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Battery comparison- Thanks for the answers.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Honda 600 (in Texas?)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Arctic Leash
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Some problems to solve
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Honda 600 (in Texas?)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Honda 600 (in Texas?)
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Honda 600 (in Texas?)
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:33:10 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>This microcar might make be a good basis for an EV (for someone else, that is):
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4631382724
>
Nah. at least not if you want any batteries on board :-)
The Honda motorcycle dealership where I worked during high school and
college sold those during that era. They came crated up just like
motorcycles do. 4 of us would pick up the crate and set it off the
flatbed truck.
The engine is a bored and somewhat stroked version of Honda's famous
450cc torsion bar valve spring motorcycle motor. Many parts
interchanged. Nice little screamer but still only 600 cc. Yet it had
good performance, mainly because it was so light. I could literally
feel the chassis bow when I sat in the driver's seat and I only
weighed 220 lbs back then.
All of us teenagers were jocks so we had lots of fun freaking out
people by single-handedly picking up the back end :-) Two of us could
pick up the front end.
Changing out a blown engine consisted of one of us standing on the
shock towers lifting on a bar hooked to a chain fastened to the motor,
dropping it out the bottom. Just like doing a squat press, only
lighter :-)
To put any lead in that chassis would involve basically building
another chassis underneath it. It's a cute little ricer that one can
almost wear as a roller-skate but an EV candidate it isn't.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Darin, all
An easy way to tell if it's a sep-ex is to look at the wire the field coils
are made from. These can be seen by looking where they connect to the
terminals. If it's a flat wire and usually pretty beefy then it's a series
wound (est. 7 to 16 turns). If the wire is smaller round wire (pencil lead
sized) then it's probably a sep-ex est(60 to 100 turns). If a motor hase both
a thick and a thin wired windings then it's a compound (look for both thick and
thin wire at connection points) If two coils are thick and two are really thin
wires (est. hundreds of turns) then it's a shunted motor. They use shunted
motors more for the pump motors over the drive motors but I've seen shunted
drives before. Marko uses a 36/48 volt OEM rated 7" shunted Prestolite pump
motor in his Fiat and admits it gets hot but then again he's been using it for
over 7 years so it ain't that hot, hehehe!
If you can grab a few pics and send them to me I may recognize the motor and
if you can aim for the inside teminal connection 8^ ) I might be able to see
the coil wire.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When did you measure the voltage? You should let it sit a bit before you
measure. So far so good but you totally depleted the pack if your readings
are correct. I suspect if you measured later it might have been 80% DOD. I
have noticed as much as 20% bounce back in lead packs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:28 PM
Subject: Round Trip Range on 48 volts
My first try ...
Things I was able to measure ....
22.7 miles elapased time - 47 minutes
100 amp draw @ 35mph
4 door Geo Metro 8 stop and go's
ending speed 45 mph ....
47.3 volts in pack at end of run ... What is 50% discharge ? 80% ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ben,
I am leaning towards the PFC for its flexibility of input and high power
output.
I've been using a PFC-20 for a year and a half now. It's wonderful.
4 If correct that the Zivan does a good top off/equalization of batteries
(semi smart), would the Russco and PFC do just as well a job if setup
properly by end user?
Yes, the PFC does a great job when set correctly. I don't have
experience with Russcos, so someone else will have to chime on there.
With the PFC, you can do an equalizing charge with the flip of a dip
switch.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No rev limit yet, the sensor is still in the box. Please, just don't
tell jim husted.
Foot not coming off pedal but I will have to put it back in DAQ mode and
see if what it is,
It can't be low pack voltage, becasue it sags more in 2nd and 3rd than
first !
Probably high motor voltage. Does the zilla reduce duty cycle or block
it when this is detected?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
but the drag racing seems to be getting the most attention right now
:-) .
Steve Clunn
Haha - and you're quite the contributor :) I've seen your video laying
rubber in your truck, LOL.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Farver writes:
>
> I've seen this too... after using the Hairball in DAQ mode I discovered
> that most of the effect was actually caused by my foot coming off the
> pedal. The Zilla has pretty quick throttle response. Side the seat
> forward and pound the pedal to the floor and the problem lessens (in my
> MR2 acceleration is enough that the collapse of the seat padding is
> enough to lift my foot...I wouldn't be a good racer) Look for places in
> the throttle cable where the high forces might be affecting the pot
> setting. Adding additional return springs seems to help by giving you a
> greater force to work against. the curtis springs are way too light.
I am also having this problem. Otmar has suggested making sure the motor
mounts are not loose or broken, and that the pot in the potbox doesn't
have any irregularities. He also suggested writing down the Hairball
settings, resetting to the factory defaults and then reprograming them.
One more thing to check is that the potbox is mounted securely.
I reset the Hairball parameters and checked the potbox. The resistance
seems to change smoothly. One thing I did do that seems to help is move
the throttle cable attachment point from the end of the arm on the throttle
pot inward. I moved it one hole at a time and ended up with the cable
attached to the inner-most hole on the arm. This probably has a similar
effect as using a heavier spring. I still notice some bucking but not as
much as before. This weekend I hope to look at the throttle pot more
closely.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> *nod* makes sense, but out of curiousity what happens if the charger
> overpowers the regs?
The light bulb limits the current to about 0.5 amps no matter how high
the battery voltage goes. All that happens if you force the battery up
to (say) 18v is that the light bulb eventually burns out.
> I typically charge at 5a rate up to 350 or so (14 volts per battery),
> then down to 1a for the run to 375 (15). Would I need to dial this
> back?
These zener-lamp regulators work somewhat differently than Rudman's
regulators. When charging, the battery is around 80% full when its
voltage goes over 14v. At this point, it should take another 4 hours or
so to finish and the charger shut off.
If a battery gets to 80% early, its voltage rises early, and its
regulator is bypassing 0.5 amp or so for that 4 hours; thus, it gets 4 x
0.5a = 2 amphours less total charge. If a battery gets to 80% late, it
might not reach 14v until almost the end of that 4 hour period; it thus
doesn't have any charging current bypassed, and so gets 2ah more than
the early one.
So, it doesn't matter too much what the charger's actual current is, as
long as it is smart enough to shut off after 4 hours or so. The
zener-lamp regulators are just "leaning on" the batteries to push them
toward the same state of charge during this time.
> Got it. I assume the resistor also a 5 watt rated one?
No, it's just a little half-watt part.
> On another question, what do you think is the reason these batteries
> keep blowing 1-2 cells without damaging the others? Dry-out or shorts?
Can't say. You may have to cut one open and perform an autopsy.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 20:14:58 -0600, "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> The major difference between performance and flooded batteries other
>> than performance is cost. Lots of difference.
>
>
> You got that right. I just contacted Hawkers and they wanted $24,000.00
>for a set of batteries that would be equal to a 300 AH PbA battery. There
>would be so many of them in parallel and series that I could not fit them in
>anyway. And that's not including the BMS. I can buy 10 sets of battery
>packs for that cost. Roland
This just doesn't make any sense. 300 ah at what voltage? Hawker or
Enersys or whatever they're calling themselves this week offers the
traditional Genesis EP line in capacities up to 70 ah. That means you
could run 3 in parallel and have more than 300ah's worth of wet cell
capacity. Their tech literature says that up to 5 may be run in
parallel for cyclic duty.
The new Odyssey 2150 100ah battery is now available with a MSRP of
$249, street price probably close to $200. Two of those in parallel
would beat 300ah of wet cells in traction duty.
At $500 (using the MSRP) for each 12 volt increment, $24,000 would
build a 576 volt, 200ah pack. You're not REALLY planning a 115kWH
pack, are you? If you have that kind of money to toss around, will
you adopt me for a week or two? :-)
Hawkers/Enersys or whatever they call themselves now certainly cost
more, OK, a lot more than wet cells but not THAT much!
So what voltage is that 300 ah pack going to be?
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
>
> Does this scale down to 1.2 volt cells?
Sort of. For 1.2v cells, use an optocoupler per cell. The infrared
photodiode in the optocoupler has a turn-on threshold of about 1.05v.
Put a resistor of about 330 ohms in series. As long as the cell is over
1.05v, the optocoupler's isolated phototransistor output will be "on".
String them all in series, with a visible LED on your dash. When this
LED goes out, some cell has gone below 1.05v.
To detect overvoltage during charging, you'd need to add extra diode
drops so the optocoupler turns on when the cell reaches 1.55v or
whatever you want.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 47.3 volts in pack at end of run ... What is 50% discharge ? 80% ?
>
If that was measured after enough of a rest period, you've essentially
got almost everything out of the pack you safely can - better have had
it on charge as soon as possible!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks,
I measured right after I stopped ... guess I should have waited a
bit.
If it was 50% what would be the reading ?? 80% ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> When did you measure the voltage? You should let it sit a bit
before you
> measure. So far so good but you totally depleted the pack if your
readings
> are correct. I suspect if you measured later it might have been
80% DOD. I
> have noticed as much as 20% bounce back in lead packs.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:28 PM
> Subject: Round Trip Range on 48 volts
>
>
> > My first try ...
> >
> > Things I was able to measure ....
> >
> >
> > 22.7 miles elapased time - 47 minutes
> >
> > 100 amp draw @ 35mph
> >
> > 4 door Geo Metro 8 stop and go's
> >
> > ending speed 45 mph ....
> >
> > 47.3 volts in pack at end of run ... What is 50% discharge ?
80% ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok someone point out the flaws before I try to build this.. :)
For my Jetta conversion, I want 50 miles at 80% DOD in typical around
town driving (non-freeway), 0 to 60 MPH in 10 seconds or less, and
lower than AGM battery cost per mile. Typicall I'll do 20 to 30 miles
per day, with no opportunity charging possible.
So.. how about a string of 13 Trojan J150 and a string of 12 Orbital
34DC36 batteries hooked in parallel during discharge (using two
contactors to make it so). Separated during charge and using
appropriate (regs on the Orbitals) separate charge systems for each
string. Effectively about 150 V at 75 A, and 126 V at 1000 A. Powering
a 9 inch ADC or Warp through a Zilla 1k. Car will be a '87 Jetta GL 5
speed with upgraded suspension/brakes/wheels/tires to handle 1584 lbs
of batteries. The J150 is supposed to be the same type of construction
as the T-105, but 12 V, so similar long life assumed.
My thinking is that, because of the voltage difference between the two
strings and sag of the Trojans under heavy load, that under normal
cruise most of the current will come from the Trojans, and only pull
from the Orbitals under acceleration or when the Trojans get low.
After 30 miles, the Trojans might be at 60% DOD and the Orbitals at
20%. The Orbitals would last maybe 2000 cycles like that, and the
Trojans 1000 cycles. Accounting for sag at 1000 amps, max battery
power would be about 10.5 V x 12 x 1000 A or 126 KW (effectively 12
batteries because the Trojans will sag a lot more). Loaded like that,
probably 700 A would be from the Orbitals, and 300 A from the Trojans,
and the Trojans would be at 9.7 V per battery. At a stoplight, the
Orbitals would be at 13 V per battery, so little charge/discharge
would take place and would be happily married to the Trojans.
These prices are from a quick internet search. Hopefully I can get
similar locally:
Trojan J150 $185 x 13 = $2405
Exide Orbital 34DC36 $112 x 12 = $1344
Total = $3749
I figure I'll go through 2 sets of Trojans before the Orbitals need
replacing so:
$2405 x 2 + $1344 = $6154
Figure 30 miles per cycle and 2000 cycles. Battery cost per mile:
$6154 / 30 x 2000 ~ $0.103 per mile.
The alternative I'm considering:
32 Orbital 34DC36, buddy paired for 192 V, 1312 lbs. $3584. 30 miles
would be about 60% DOD. Maybe 500 cycles life. Max power 150 V
(limited by the Zilla to prevent arcing) x 1000 A, or about 150 KW.
More than the first case, but not really needed.
$3585 / 30 x 500 ~ $0.239 per mile
Pretty significant difference in cost per mile, and both should get me
0 to 60 in under 10 seconds. I'd need two chargers in the first case,
but over the long term might a better solution. Lots of assumptions
and guesses being made here of course... anyone tried this?
Brad Baylor
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--- Begin Message ---
I drive around in second and 3rd, sometimes 4th in my 300zx (zilla1k on
24 orbitals)
Yesterday I decided to check accelertion in first instead of second and
it bucked wildly even at part throttle.
I was wondering how current limit and voltage limits are handled in the
hairball and what was happening.
My motor voltage limit is set for 170, my battery amps limit is set for
1000 and my low battery voltage limit is set for 240V.
What are you using first gear for! Trying to bow the motor again? :)
It's very unusual to find benefit from first gear in most DC EV's.
I certainly would not run first at full throttle (especially without
a speed sensor) unless you really want to rebuild the motor again.
What's redline, 25 MPH? Spin those tires and you can hit 80 mph in
under a second.
You'll need a stout throttle return spring if you want to drive in
first at less than full throttle to avoid foot oscillations. You
should always have at least two springs anyway. Lot's of torque in
the motor there that was not there as a gas car. Or you can turn
motor current below 200 amps and it should be smooth.
Motor voltage cutback is normally smooth and should not be related.
I suspect that what has happened is that your ultra light torque load
in first has the throttle out of the normal smooth current limit mode
and running in voltage control (like a Curtis). With high pack
voltages such as yours voltage control will be very jumpy to hold. It
should still be smooth at full throttle, so I would check the DAQ to
insure that you really are holding full throttle (only with a speed
sensor and rev limit installed). Or better yet, don't use first gear.
I'm not saying that it's not a problem with the Hairball, you never
know when a bug will show up. The Zilla has always had a reputation
as a very smooth controller. Of course, I drive in third gear, so if
a problem was developing along the way I may not have noticed it in
testing after the initial design verification (which was done in
first, in a couple of cars). But if it's only in first gear then that
points toward installation issues.
hth
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well that was the issue .... I wanted to recharge right away
How long can /should I wait to measure the voltage ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Death to All Spammers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > 47.3 volts in pack at end of run ... What is 50% discharge ? 80% ?
> >
>
> If that was measured after enough of a rest period, you've essentially
> got almost everything out of the pack you safely can - better have had
> it on charge as soon as possible!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Thanks,
> I measured right after I stopped ... guess I should have waited a
> bit.
> If it was 50% what would be the reading ?? 80% ??
>
For 12V floodies, full charge is around 12.6V, 50% at 12.2V and fully
discharged at 11.8V - these are all measured at rest, and can vary
with temperature.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like a motor some EVistas started out using for their first conversions:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7612286729
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, well ..
While I am cruisin' around with my 144V S-10, I still have that little
something on my mind. That little something is a beautiful red Ghia
convertible. It has a new tranny, improved clutch and a well running 60hp
ICE. It even has a/c and a great stereo. And - since it is a classic car,
I have it insured for 130 US$/year with an agreed value of 25K. Now - that
would be a good conversion candidate.
Now - before I start to tear it apart (= convert it), i'd like start
thinking about the 'right' way to do it. I am aiming for max. 100 miles
range without lead. This should be way cheaper than to convert my S-10 to
some state-of-the-art battery chemistry.
Suggestions for motors/controllers/batteries?
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Well that was the issue .... I wanted to recharge right away
>
> How long can /should I wait to measure the voltage ??
>
Should level out enough in 5 minutes to get a close enough idea where
you stand.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Y'all may remember the group purchase on the Albright SW200A-678
contactors with the 56 volt coils that was organized last year. I
bought 8 (and sure wish I'd bought more :-)
I finally got time today to take the solenoid apart and compute the
new winding for 12 volt nominal service. Following is an excerpt from
my shop log book detailing the work.
Before I did anything, I tested the contactor as-found. I was not
impressed. With almost 53 volts (48volt pack on trickle) on the coil,
the armature just sorta sidled into place. Not the snap that we
expect of a high current contactor. I tested a couple more just to
make sure I didn't get a fluke. I didn't. I could just imagine these
contacts gliding listlessly closed into non-pre-charged controller
capacitors. The fireball should be entertaining, at least.
This was an unsatisfactory condition so after poking around with a
dynamometer (in this context, a spring-scale-like device for measuring
force) to see just what kind of starting force was generated by the
solenoid, I decided to design for 4X the starting force. That meant
about 4X the ampere-turns as the original coil.
The frame of the solenoid is staked together during manufacture.
Disassembly required I grind off the stakes and carefully lever the
frame apart. Once the frame was apart, the blue outer plastic sleeve
came off easily after I unsoldered the wires (photos on my web site
later) to expose the windings. Fortunately these were random-wound
bobbins without any potting compound. What follows is from my log
book.
John
-----------------------
04/20/06
Stock coil ------------------------------
At 51.4 volts, 225ma flows, computing to 228 ohms
Ohmmeter measures 207 ohms cold. Two different meters agree. Probably
the difference between cold and hot ohms.
With 52 volts on the solenoid, the core temperature (looking down the
solenoid bore with an IR pyrometer) rose to 157 Deg. and stabilized.
The outer plastic temperature was 129 deg.
Modified Coil - 12 volt nom service ------
At Jerry's (electric motor) shop.
Unwound the spool on Jerry's winding machine and measured the wire
gauge more precisely after burning off the insulation. 5008 turns of
#29 wire.
Computed 1200 turns of #21 wire for 12 volts.
On the bench with 13.87 volts on the coil, the initial current was
2.153 amps. The temperature started rising rapidly. After an hour in
free air the outside temperature was 207 degrees and stable and the
current had dropped to 1.966 amps. (Ain't Boltzmann grand?) That
works out to a hot resistance of 13.87/1.966 = 7.055 ohms.
(This is Class H wire so the temperature isn't anything to get excited
about. The plastic bobbin is the limiting factor. It feels like some
sort of cheap filled polyethylene or maybe nylon.)
This is a bit hot, though it would work in the EV because that much
voltage will not be available at the coil terminals. I'm going to
shoot for 1.0 amps holding at 12 volts for the first try. That
indicates 12 ohms. A peak/hold driver consisting of a 4.7 ohm
resistor shunted by a 50k uf cap should do the job, giving a time
constant of 0.24 seconds. The 4.7 ohm resistor will need to be 5
watts at least. A 10 volt cap would work, though I'm going to use a
16 volt or greater for safety margin.
If less than 1 amp can hold the solenoid in then I'm going to try 0.75
amps and then 0.5 amp, trying for the least holding current that will
hold the solenoid in even over rough terrain. For 0.75 amps at 12.0
volts, I'll need 16 ohms total. With 7 ohms in the coil, 16-7= 9 ohms
series resistor, shunted by a 30kuf cap for about the same time
constant.
This time constant should give enough of a current pulse to hammer the
contactor closed, yet let the contactor cycle in less than half a
second if necessary. I'll probably use a standard 8 ohm sand resistor
from Rat Shack and let the light gauge hookup wiring supply the other
ohm.
The spool is too full for the blue cover to fit back on so I wrapped
the coil with Scotch 88 after dribbling some thin epoxy into the
turns. The spool is of too cheap a grade of plastic to dip and bake.
For the next coil I'll use 22ga wire which will be less filling and
will allow the blue spool cover to go back on.
---- NOTE -----
These calculations are for ordinary enameled coil winding wire and NOT
Inverter-Grade wire. IG wire has a heavier insulation so the fill
factor is larger and fewer turns will fit.
To do:
* wind another coil with 22 ga wire.
* fit an LVDT to the armature and scope the contact motion.
* Test at 0.5 and 0.75 amps holding current.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >This microcar might make be a good basis for an EV (for someone
else, that is):
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4631382724
> >
>
> Nah. at least not if you want any batteries on board :-)
>
>
Just thought maybe 4 Optimas, 4QD-48-300 controller and an Etek
connected directly to a donor transaxle (a Fiat, maybe?) for short
errands, then spring for lithium in the future to try for longer range.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland,
Is this for your El Camino?
180V = 15x 12V in series
Evalbum says you currently use 245Ah 6V x30
My AGM batteries are 12V 110A for $85
If you again want 30 batteries like you have now,
this would cost you $2550 and give you 220Ah
and a 1-hour discharge usable capacity of 160 Ah.
Were you quoted Lithium batteries or single battery
quantity suggested retail prices?
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 7:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery comparison- Thanks for the answers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Battery comparison- Thanks for the answers.
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:36:12 -0400, "Richard Acuti"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >Orbitals, Optimas and Hawkers make great performance batteries (read:
> >high
> >acceleration) because they can safely discharge at extremely high rates
> >and
> >have little voltage sag when they do. However, you -may- sacrifice range
> >because they don't discharge as long.
>
> No. If one compares equal amp-hours between performance and flooded
> batteries, the high performance batteries will go farther because the
> Peukert effect is so much lower (implied in the very low internal
> resistance that lets the performance batteries perform.)
>
> The major difference between performance and flooded batteries other
> than performance is cost. Lots of difference.
You got that right. I just contacted Hawkers and they wanted $24,000.00
for a set of batteries that would be equal to a 300 AH PbA battery. There
would be so many of them in parallel and series that I could not fit them in
anyway. And that's not including the BMS. I can buy 10 sets of battery
packs for that cost. Roland
>
> >Conventional floodeds and the NiCad's I asked questions about earlier
> >have
> >the advantage of cost and long discharge times which are good for range,
> >but
> >they don't tolerate high discharge rates well and experience voltage sag
> >plus extra weight so I should expect slower acceleration.
>
> Separate floodeds and wet NiCads. Wet NiCads generally also fall in
> the performance class, capable of large discharge rates for the AH
> rating. NiCads do NOT sag unless very heavily loaded. About the only
> disadvantages that I can think of with Nicads are a) cost, lots of
> cost, and b) the necessity of frequent watering.
>
> If you have the money and room, then performance batteries are the way
> to go. Either parallel or series them to get the watt-hours you need
> for your required range.
>
> If you have even more money, NiCads are the way to go. Not only are
> they capable of high performance but also, unless you REALLY abuse
> them, they're a lifetime purchase. You'd be able to move the pack
> from car to car.
>
> Of course, if you have more money than you know what to do with then
> there is, of course, the various Li chemistries.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You mentioned the right alternative - Fiat.
There are millions of Fiats, unfortunately not so many in the US.
The Fiat 600 was comparable to this car, the reason for the
popularity of the 600 (CC = 0.6 liter engine) was that in some
countries you could drive without license in a car with engine
below 600 cc (not any more as far as I know).
There are two Fiat 600 on Ebay, but neither is a good candidate
due to rust and such issues....
Back to the Bradley GT's?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:55 PM
To: Neon John
Subject: Re: Honda 600 (in Texas?)
> >This microcar might make be a good basis for an EV (for someone
else, that is):
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4631382724
> >
>
> Nah. at least not if you want any batteries on board :-)
>
>
Just thought maybe 4 Optimas, 4QD-48-300 controller and an Etek
connected directly to a donor transaxle (a Fiat, maybe?) for short
errands, then spring for lithium in the future to try for longer range.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I too was considering putting one of these under the hood and letting the
cord pull through a hatch where the radiator used to be. However I'd like
to make use of 220V when possible. Has anyone seen a 220V version of one of
these retractable reels?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Arctic Leash
Patrick Clarke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'd like to incorporate the "traditional"
> charging-plug-through-the-gas-cap routine.
>
> Does anyone have a better/easier/cheaper retracting solution than
> mounting something like this Arctic Leash in the car?
> http://tinyurl.com/fykvv
>
> Is it heavy enough gauge for a 120V system?
The issue with any retracting type cord setup is that if the cord is not
fully unrolled while in use, then it can overheat and fail.
The 12ft 15A 14/3 version is probably OK for use with a charger, but it
depends on the nature of the charger. If the charger has a high crest
factor (poor power factor, high peak current on the AC side), then even
though it may appear to draw a reasonable current things may still
overheat and fail.
Have you considered instead mounting a flanged inlet type recepacle in
place of the original fuel filler and just plugging in an appropriate
extension cord? I've put a NEMA L14-30 on mine and it is very nearly a
drop in replacement for the fuel filler. If you are only concerned with
120VAC charging, you could get away with a NEMA L5-30 (or even smaller;
the 5-30 is rated for 30A) flanged inlet (this is the male half of the
connector pair).
I know the locking style connectors are out of favour with some in
earthquake zones, but as far as I'm concerned if my EV moves far enough
relative to the outlet that this becomes an issue there are far larger
issues to worry about! ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:34 PM 4/19/2006, you wrote:
It appears that your pack is getting full on nearly every cycle.
The slight overcharge appears to come close to meeting John Olson's negative
plate charge requirement.
The batteries appear to be very well matched.
As Bill Dube' stated, you are running a compromise between sulphation and
dryout tending more toward sulphation than dryout.
You have it exactly right. All charging algorithms are a
compromise. If you want to achieve the cycle life given in the spec
sheet, you have to push in the extra 8% on each cycle.
The recombnation process takes place on the negative plate.
Because of this, the negative plate does not charge as efficiently as
the positive plate. You end up having to put in almost 10% extra
charge to get it caught up.
If you don't put in that extra charge, you will lose a bit
of capacity with each cycle and you will leave the negative plate in
a constant state of partial charge. This will soon cause the negative
plate to sulphate, making the capacity loss permanent.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 05:55:22 -0000, "Death to All Spammers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >This microcar might make be a good basis for an EV (for someone
>else, that is):
>> >
>>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4631382724
>> >
>>
>> Nah. at least not if you want any batteries on board :-)
>>
>>
>
>Just thought maybe 4 Optimas, 4QD-48-300 controller and an Etek
>connected directly to a donor transaxle (a Fiat, maybe?) for short
>errands, then spring for lithium in the future to try for longer range.
That would really be a pig. I'm assuming the -300 means 300 amps?
My GoBig scooter is 36 volts and 450 amps and only weighs 160 lbs
without me on it, 440 lbs with me on it. It'll just about keep up
with downtown traffic accelerating away from a traffic light, with
gearing for about 50 mph. That little car has to weigh 800-900 lbs
minus driver. The motor is maybe 100-150 lbs. Batteries will make up
for the motor plus perhaps a little. No transmission for something
like this - too many losses and too much weight. I'd just cog belt
the motor to the jackshafts with perhaps a center bearing.
I'm not how well an ETEK would work with that much mass to accelerate.
I'd be worried about melt-down.
Without doing a lot of math, that would be more of a traffic
obstruction than a car, much slower, I think, than a stock CitiCar. My
72 volt/450 amp Citi performs on the same order of magnitude as my
GoBig, just to put things in perspective.
I don't mind doing the math if someone wants to find out the actual
weight but I think this 'un would be a real dog.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Honday 600...very nice car. Twin cams and revs up to something like 11,000,
crankshaft is supported on needle roller bearings, motorcycle technology.
Awesome stuff...too good to convert i reackon.
Anyone, converted any ferrari's? (geniune)
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Honda 600 (in Texas?)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:10:08 -0700
You mentioned the right alternative - Fiat.
There are millions of Fiats, unfortunately not so many in the US.
The Fiat 600 was comparable to this car, the reason for the
popularity of the 600 (CC = 0.6 liter engine) was that in some
countries you could drive without license in a car with engine
below 600 cc (not any more as far as I know).
There are two Fiat 600 on Ebay, but neither is a good candidate
due to rust and such issues....
Back to the Bradley GT's?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:55 PM
To: Neon John
Subject: Re: Honda 600 (in Texas?)
> >This microcar might make be a good basis for an EV (for someone
else, that is):
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4631382724
> >
>
> Nah. at least not if you want any batteries on board :-)
>
>
Just thought maybe 4 Optimas, 4QD-48-300 controller and an Etek
connected directly to a donor transaxle (a Fiat, maybe?) for short
errands, then spring for lithium in the future to try for longer range.
_________________________________________________________________
15,000 Velocity Points Velocity NAB Credit Card
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fadsfac%2Enet%2Flink%2Easp%3Fcc%3DNAT030%2E23080%2E0%26clk%3D1%26creativeID%3D34301&_t=754983092&_r=emailtagline&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Opps, disregard my last email. I thought it was a s600...damn they were
nice. Convert it mate!!
From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Honda 600 (in Texas?)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 03:13:05 -0400
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 05:55:22 -0000, "Death to All Spammers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >This microcar might make be a good basis for an EV (for someone
>else, that is):
>> >
>>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4631382724
>> >
>>
>> Nah. at least not if you want any batteries on board :-)
>>
>>
>
>Just thought maybe 4 Optimas, 4QD-48-300 controller and an Etek
>connected directly to a donor transaxle (a Fiat, maybe?) for short
>errands, then spring for lithium in the future to try for longer range.
That would really be a pig. I'm assuming the -300 means 300 amps?
My GoBig scooter is 36 volts and 450 amps and only weighs 160 lbs
without me on it, 440 lbs with me on it. It'll just about keep up
with downtown traffic accelerating away from a traffic light, with
gearing for about 50 mph. That little car has to weigh 800-900 lbs
minus driver. The motor is maybe 100-150 lbs. Batteries will make up
for the motor plus perhaps a little. No transmission for something
like this - too many losses and too much weight. I'd just cog belt
the motor to the jackshafts with perhaps a center bearing.
I'm not how well an ETEK would work with that much mass to accelerate.
I'd be worried about melt-down.
Without doing a lot of math, that would be more of a traffic
obstruction than a car, much slower, I think, than a stock CitiCar. My
72 volt/450 amp Citi performs on the same order of magnitude as my
GoBig, just to put things in perspective.
I don't mind doing the math if someone wants to find out the actual
weight but I think this 'un would be a real dog.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
_________________________________________________________________
1000s of Sexy Singles online now at Lavalife - Click here
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D22031&_t=751140432&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
