EV Digest 5418
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Golf Cart controller for testing?
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Question about attaching Curtis 1221c to heatsink
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Zilla anyone
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Question about attaching Curtis 1221c to heatsink
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What time line is there on Zilla controllers?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: What time line is there on Zilla controllers?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Hi There! (Introduction)
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: New AC system option (was Re: Nissan AC conversion)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Fat batts
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: cost containment.
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Golf Cart controller for testing?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) OT: 24VDC rotary lawnmower motor
by "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Speedometer without a transmission?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: running hot
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: cost containment.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: OT: 24VDC rotary lawnmower motor
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Chargeing plugs and dump chargeing
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Hi There! (Introduction)
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) EV Charging station
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: EV Charging station
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Nice engine
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Hoof Governer
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: EV Charging station
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: Chargeing plugs and dump chargeing
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Would there be any reason not to use a 36-48 volt setup for basic neighborhood
and drivetrain testing while waiting for my Zilla? It would be helpful to be
able to back my car out of the drive, run it around the cul-de-sac by my house,
etc. I can get one of these cheap with cheap charger and some Golf cart batts
from my local sams. I have a 2900Lb car with an automatic transaxle,so it might
be a little easier to get going than a MT.
What say ya all?
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just thinking out loud here. I have a Curtis with a typical popped off end cap,
the other end from
the connections. The end that's still attached supports the connections. If you
had no concerns
for water infiltration, can you drill some holes in the remaining end cap and
blow some cooling
air through the controller?
Dave Cover
--- Chuck Hursch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote Sunday, April 16, 2006 2:47 PM:
> > Mark Freidberg wrote:
> > > 1. Where can below-mentioned heatsink compound be purchased?
> >
> > www.jameco.com part# 236822CK $4.95
> >
> > > 2. Okay to install Curtis upside down so heatsink is on top?
> >
> > Yes, that's fine. Any position is fine except with the
> terminals facing
> > up unless you are *sure* it will never ever get water on top.
>
> I have had no problem over ten years with my 1231C hanging upside
> down off its heatsink. I have two big fans blowing air down on
> the heatsink. At the time I felt that any air warmed in the case
> of the controller would tend to rise against the portion of the
> controller attached to the heatsink, thereby getting rid of the
> heat quicker. That would be convection inside the controller
> case. Then there is the conduction from the electrical parts
> attached to the heatsink interface of the controller. With this
> setup I have had no overheating problems with the controller -
> even on the hottest days climbing the hills around here it just
> gets mildly warm. I figure cool electronics are happy
> electronics ==> happy driver :-) !
>
> Chuck
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i would not deny or counter your statements .. they
ARE CORRECT .. and THAT is the reason for
changing the material from high alloys to carbon
fibre .. to 'reduce' the risk .. so the risk is
not 'greater' .. but lesser
nice to find acceptability of negating of the gyro
effect of one fly-cylinder by the other fly-cylinder
and your comments are noted .. and are right too
now, about 'risk' .. hey ! that WILL happen ..
there are huge risks in cars too .. normal cars
are able to go 200 mph and above ..
there are so many variable in cars now .. many
can fail ..and many do .. accidents do increase
but that cannot be the only reason to stop
'discussing' what llnl is 'inventing' or 'developing'
and many makers are already manufacturing
and selling
will it be right to 'discuss' the EMB's rather
than discussing the 'reasons to NOT discuss' the emb's ??
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
> peekay wrote:
> > if the rpm goes up... then we have much smaller dia, much smaller
> > mass and much smaller storage area
>
> Agreed. This implies even higher stress levels on the materials, and so
> a greater risk from failures.
>
> > to counteract the gyro effect, they suggest two EMB's spinning
> > in opposite directions .. to negate the gyro effect ..elementary
>
> It negates the reaction of the case as a whole, but each flywheel reacts
> independently through its bearings. The bearings will have to withstand
> the full precession loads, exactly as if the were acting alone.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006
>
>
___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo!
Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems a bit unrealistic asking the same price:
1) It's used -- purchaser has no way of being sure how the item has been
treated.
2) The warranty is almost certainly *NOT* renewed when transferring to a
new owner. In some cases, warranties aren't even transferable.
3) Dealer / manufacturer is less likely to be helpful of someone that
didn't purchase the item from them. Especially a dealer.
The only (somewhat questionable) advantage is that he'd get the item
sooner.
Supply and demand baby. There is none on the market used, so you can sell
it for the new price. This only works if the buyer is in a hurry and the
lead time for a new one doesn't work for them, so they are willing to take a
chance on a used one. Everyone knows that you can't break a Zilla, so
what's the difference...
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> I have a Curtis with a typical popped off end cap, the other end
> from the connections.
Mine too. That's common. Nothing holds it in but friction and a little
glue. A little heat, vibration, and time; and out it comes!
> The end that's still attached supports the connections. If you had
> no concerns for water infiltration
...then you haven't looked at stuff in a car very much. :-) Water is
very common; if not from rain or splash, then from condensation, fog, or
high humidity.
> can you drill some holes in the remaining end cap and blow some
> cooling air through the controller?
You could; but there are lots of very small spacings inside with full
pack voltage between them. Besides water, you'll provide an entryway for
dust, bugs, rodent droppings, etc.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Ward wrote:
> As a matter of curiosity, what exactly IS the time line on Zilla Controllers?
>
> I will have my motor installed in the next couple of weeks...hopefully.
If you buy it direct, there might or might not be a wait for it..
http://cafeelectric.com/products/price/
Maybe some places have them in stock?
http://www.evsource.com/tls_controllers.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
I try to keep one in stock all the time. I do have one right now. I'll have a
Z2K in stock (and hopefully keeping one in stock from now on) as soon as it's
built too.
-Ryan
Original Message -----------------------
Mark Ward wrote:
> As a matter of curiosity, what exactly IS the time line on Zilla Controllers?
>
http://www.evsource.com/tls_controllers.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone!
I thought it good practice to introduce myself as I've finally
managed to subscribe to the EV list.
My name is Nikki and I'm currently living in Bristol, UK. I'm a
professional musician who tries to be ecologically sound in all I do.
I've always been a bit of a "do it yourself" girl and have wanted to
own an EV car for a long time. After owning a very unecologically
sound hot rod I'm wanting to make up a bit with a very clean car!
I'm planning the conversion of my 1965 Morris Minor 2-door sedan,
which I am currently restoring.
At the moment the car has been stripped of a large proportion of her
mechanical components. The great thing about working from home for me
is that I can use the time most people would spend commuting to work
on my car's conversion.
Once stripped I'm going to replace any of the rusted floor panels
with stock replacements and then set about fabricating the specialist
parts. At the moment I'm torn between an AC system using direct drive
to the rear wheels (negating the need for conventional transmission
and consequently decreasing the weight) or sticking with a cheaper DC
motor mated to the car's original but rebuilt gearbox.
I'd appreciate any words of wisdom anyone would like to offer. Since
the project is a restoration in addition to a conversion I'm keen to
do something which will provide me with the greatest range rather
than the cheapest cost. (A restoration is of course a large
undertaking and allows me to budget much better for more expensive
parts than a standard conversion I feel). I'm planning to include
NiMh or NiCad batteries rather than lead acid too, since we may be
moving to Ontario and I would like the car to still work well in cold
weather!
I would love to hear people's thoughts on this. The car, in her stock
form, is a tad over 1600lbs kerbweight. The front end of the car has
an unbelievable amount of space under the hood. Okay, so I won't be
able to put everything under there if I want to keep weight
distribution correct, but it does at least allow me the luxury of
moving my trunk from front to back if the rather small trunk is taken
up with batteries!
In the meantime, feel free to visit the 'garagecam'. (http://
www.aminorjourney.co.uk/webcam.jpg) It's updated every few minutes
throughout the day and I hope will serve to keep me on track as
several of my friends are all ready nagging at me when they don't see
any progress on the car for a few days!
Regards
Nikki
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
30kw can move a vehicle up to 3,000 lbs to highway speed....eventually.
This is about the max power level in my truck. Acceleration is kinda
lethargic, glacial almost.
I think this would be a really nice setup for a really light weight car
though.
Yes, it was picked by OEM for VW Golf, o will work for this class
of cars (Geo, Rabbit, Bug and such). 3000 lb vehicle is too heavy
for it.
Steady speed power needed for freeway *normally* (vehicles above
and/or shaped more-less aerodynamically) is 10...15 kW.
So 30 kW max system is adequate. The time to reach that speed
is different matter, and for 3000 lb car may be 30 sec. or so,
give or take. It would be an undersized system for 3000 lb
freeway capable car. But for a commuter - still OK.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, this is odd. So I went out and bought a 35lb postal scale to weigh
some of the hawkers and see how much water they have lost. Scale has a
.2oz resolution.
First I tested 3 new Hakwer 26ah batteries out of the box. 21.90,21.90,21.95
Then I tested two of the batteries from my Prizm (the ones that blew to
6 volts). 22.7oz, 22.9oz.
Why would they be heavier? Same type/model of battery. As a condition
check I weighed one that I never put in the car but had the same vintage
(I got spares). 22.0
Any idea why the battery would weigh more after 2 years operation?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 04/27/06 at 00:40 you wrote:
Suppose I decide that I want to own, say, the 72 volt class and I have
enough money to do whatever I want (or hire it done.)
Dunno about the 72volt class, but you have won the prize for the single
most slippery slope argument EVER on the internet. That is quite an
accomplishment.
If you want to buy it, go ahead. If someone else wanted to, what exactly
would be the problem with that?
Rule #1: Racing improves the breed. Not everything a racer does is
directly translatable to the street, but lots of things are. Gas or
electric.
Racing runs on money. Sanctioning bodies really work to provide a good
contest so that people will want to watch - cost containment is only
part of that strategy, and an occasional one. If you were the head of
NEDRA, would you set rules that would keep Ford, GM, and DC (or any
manufacturer) from entering factory cars? Do you think that would be a
good thing?
Wouldn't a deep pocket player spending to develop hot new technologies
be a good thing? Though what would Mr. Deep Pockets gain by owning the
72 volt class? Is there some huge following that will pay for itself in
advertising? And wouldn't such an investment be short-lived anyway, as
the sanctioning body could change the rules at any point?
And really, what is the marketing potential for dudes with wild beards
spouting their hate for oil wars and all that, anyway (that isn't
directed at anyone in particular, it is a wild generalization)? NASCAR
became BIG business when it rubbed off the raw edges. Sure, the purists
don't like it, but millions of other fans do.
John F. Norton
via T-Mobile Sidekick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go for it. The driving is the fun part, even if it is before the project is
complete and at partial power. The first thing that I did when I got my
motor mounted on my motorcycle was grab a Hawker and a pair of jumper cables
and go for a very slow ride. I then moved up to two Hawkers in series, then
three. With 3 Hawkers I had pretty good speed but had a hard time pulling
the jumper cable away from the battery terminal as it started to weld on.
Tooling around on 36 volts is not going to hurt anything.
damon
From: Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Golf Cart controller for testing?
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:37:13 -0700
Would there be any reason not to use a 36-48 volt setup for basic
neighborhood and drivetrain testing while waiting for my Zilla? It would
be helpful to be able to back my car out of the drive, run it around the
cul-de-sac by my house, etc. I can get one of these cheap with cheap
charger and some Golf cart batts from my local sams. I have a 2900Lb car
with an automatic transaxle,so it might be a little easier to get going
than a MT.
What say ya all?
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 03:55:47 -0400, "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Not to mention the driving/handling issue with the gyroscopic effect, of
>all that rotating iron or whatEVer? For a single rail train these things
>held it up, turning wasn't as much an issue. Trains don't hafta swerve,
>much<g>! I think we should stick to more benign batteries, and a damn good
>fuze and lineswith.
As far as the car goes, the gyroscopic forces are completely canceled
by having two flywheels of identical mass rotating in opposite
directions, preferably one inside the other.
That does not, however relieve the forces that the flywheel bearings
have to withstand. It will be quite a trick to make a low volume high
energy storage flywheel rugged enough for car use.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Agreed, but I thought of a couple cases where it might make sense:
You want to do a really cheap conversion (kind of like the e-volks
kits). So you throw in a constant speed shunt motor, and let the
tranny change speeds. No controller is needed now. Mind you, probably
not the greatest way to go, but possibly the cheapest.
You live in a really hilly area. A CVT would allow some slip to
start, so you aren't starting the electric motor at 0 rpm, and are
less likely to burn it up. Also, if there are hills you could not get
up with a direct drive, or even in 2nd on a manual, or possibly even
1st on a manual, a CVT might still get you up the hill, or get you up
faster than you could have otherwise.
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't get why some of you folks are so hung up on using a CVT
> with an
> electric motor.
>
> As far as I've been able to determine, nobody makes a CVT that is
> as
> efficienct as a manual tranny.
>
> CVTs make sense with ICEs because you can gain over all system
> efficiency
> by keeping the ICE in it's narrow efficiency RPM band.
>
> But electric motors have such a wide efficency band that you end up
> loosing over all.
>
> Think about it, the major OEMs spent millions trying to develope
> the most
> efficient EVs possible, NONE of them used a CVT.
> In fact they ALL used single reduction ratio transmissions.
> A well designed single reduction tranny can be upto 98-99%
> efficient, a
> CVT is never going to come close.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I finally found what I was looking for:
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006042522024314&item=10-2313&catname=electric
I just ordered one, will post again when I get the mower put together
and see how it works.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 7:01:19 -0700, Mark Ward
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>There are also some 60's and 70's version cars that had a speedo attachment on
>the driver' side front wheel. Might look at a junk yard. It would be more of
>a low tech solution.
Electronics will be much easier to deal with.
The more or less standard for electronic speedos up to OBD-2 (95
forward) is either 2000 or 8000 pulses per mile and very rarely 4000
PPM. Every variable reluctor (VR) vehicle speed sensor (VSS) that
I've seen has generated 4 pulses per revolution.
Transmission-mounted VSS were geared to provide the necessary 8000
PPM. At least for Chevy and Mopar of which I'm most familiar, a wide
variety of VSS gearing was available.
Most aftermarket speedos use the 8000 PPS standard too, though some
have DIP switches to set the desired PPM.
I've seen a variety of methods for generating the necessary VSS
signal. One method is to connect the VSS to the drive shaft with a
timing belt, with the ratio chosen to generate the correct PPM.
Another method, one I use extensively for race car data acquisition,
is to attach or embed (in the case of an aluminum drive shaft) 4 or 8
NIB magnets to the shaft. Make one or two wraps around the magnets
with non-adhesive fiberglass or carbon fiber tape and fix with epoxy.
If the tape and epoxy uniformity is maintained, the balance will
remain correct. All-alike poles should face out so that the polarity
of the pulse as each magnet passes is the same.
My favorite pickup is the coil from a 24VAC HVAC relay. It has
sufficient turns to generate a large signal and usually has a
drilled-and-tapped hole in the bottom. Fabricate a bracket to hold
one end within an eighth of an inch of the magnet.
For off-the-shelf solutions, Jags that Run http://www.jagsthatrun.com/
has the bits and pieces to adapt most any OEM speedo to most any other
transmission. This includes sensors, ratio boxes, servos to drive
mechanical speedos from the VSS signal out of a PCM. Good guys to
deal with.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
no, I was driving it in the higher RPMs (like
[EMAIL PROTECTED]). I'm not completely sure there is enough
room between the motor and controller for a heat sink.
I have some larger rectangular ones that may fit on
the bottom sides. then I'll probably mount 2-4
blowers(temp controlled). so forced air should be able
to cool it effectivly?
Thanks
Brian
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Brian Baumel wrote:
> > It seems my controller overheats at about 5 miles.
> I was only going
> > 30mph average. Why am I overheating? It is a Aapi
> H2B w/regen...
> > mounted to a 18" X 22" X 1/4" aluminum plate
>
> It sounds like you don't have any actual heatsink;
> just the surface area
> of the aluminum plate itself. Especially with no
> fan, that's not going
> to work very well.
>
> A heatsink's performance is controlled by its
> surface area. Fins are
> used to get large surface areas from relatively
> small parts. A flat
> plate is a "one fin" heatsink; not very effective.
> Counting both sides,
> your 18"x22" plate has 792 sq.in of surface area.
>
> Suppose you replaced it with a typical heatsink,
> about the same size as
> your controller (10" x 15") but with 2" fins on 0.5"
> centers. Now your
> surface area is 10" x 15" x 2 = 300 sq.in for the
> plate itself, plus 2"
> x 15" x 21 = 630 sq.in for the fins, for a total of
> 930 sq.in. Far
> smaller, yet more area; thus the controler runs
> cooler.
>
> Better; get the heatsink's fins "out in the breeze"
> or add a fan, and
> you will drastically increase its cooling
> effectiveness.
>
> Another possibility: Are you driving it like an ICE,
> with motor rpm as
> low as possible? This forces motor current to be as
> *high* as possible,
> which makes the motor and controller run much
> hotter. You should shift
> to keep motor speed *high* in an EV, for better
> cooling and efficiency.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those thinking about drag racing,The NHRA has a bracket race program
where 93% of drag racing in this country is done.The guy who took me out in the
final round 3 weeks ago has over a million dollar operation he comes to the
track with.He carries 3 different race cars with him and a portable machine
shop/fully computer everything.I compete against this most every weekend I race
but
I still consider it FAIR.He still has to predict his time and he still has to
beat ME at the lite.There are also at least 4 other cars/rigs that cost well
over $350,000.There is little competion in nedra for world records if someone
wanted to throw real money at the records in nedra they including my 8.801et
would fall easily.Remember I used just 228 hp of Inspira batteries to run
8.801.300 hp would get the Current Eliminator in the 7s.I could duplicate the
CE
today for less than $40000. Come watch me race the million dollar operation
on
Sat.nite at Speedworld,see if he choses to race me in any round but the
final. NHRA points and a $1000 on the line Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:20:53 -0700, "Shawn Rutledge"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I think I finally found what I was looking for:
>
>http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006042522024314&item=10-2313&catname=electric
>
>I just ordered one, will post again when I get the mower put together
>and see how it works.
>
That price is kinda "ouch". Here's the one I used for my electric
mower.
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006042718102623&item=10-1938-A&catname=electric
$20. I bought 4 of 'em. This motor is a screamer. The description
is a bit wrong. it does NOT have a squeeze-bar, only a recessed
toggle switch.
When the switch is turned off, the motor is rewired as a series
generator which is shorted. It does dynamic brake but it causes large
balls of fire to roll out the vents around the commutator and the
whole mower shakes violently.
I simply defeated the function by snipping a wire. The motor takes no
longer to coast down than a gas mower. One could snip the wire and
add a resistor to preserve some dynamic braking.
For my tiny yard at my cabin, I simply run a long cord out. For other
locations, I've made a power pack that consists of a couple of golf
cart batteries, a 1500 watt inverter and a charger, all mounted on a 2
wheeled hand truck. I just roll it to the scene and use a short,
lightweight cord to the mower. I also have a small generator that I
can carry out for when the batteries would not last long enough.
I grabbed a very lightweight deck from the local mower repair shop.
The motor is lightweight also. The entire thing probably weighs less
than 20 lbs. I love being able to pitch it around with one hand. I'd
hate to have 100 lbs of batteries onboard to have to wrestle with.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a quick question about counter-rotating flywheels.
Do they truly cancel each other's gyro forces?
I'm thinking of the experiment where you sit on a swivel chair holding a
spinning bike wheel by the axle. If you try to twist the wheel, it is
hard to do, and ends up spinning you on the chair.
(see http://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/bicycle_wheel_gyro.html)
Now if there were two bike wheels on the axle spinning in opposite
directions, I imagine that it would still be difficult to twist the
wheels by the axle, though I would remain stationary on the chair.
Or do the opposing forces cancel each other to the point that it takes
no more effort than twisting a stationary bike wheel?
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neon John
> Sent: Friday, 28 April 2006 8:05 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
>
>
> On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 03:55:47 -0400, "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
> > Not to mention the driving/handling issue with the
> gyroscopic effect, of
> >all that rotating iron or whatEVer? For a single rail train
> these things
> >held it up, turning wasn't as much an issue. Trains don't
> hafta swerve,
> >much<g>! I think we should stick to more benign batteries,
> and a damn good
> >fuze and lineswith.
>
> As far as the car goes, the gyroscopic forces are completely canceled
> by having two flywheels of identical mass rotating in opposite
> directions, preferably one inside the other.
>
> That does not, however relieve the forces that the flywheel bearings
> have to withstand. It will be quite a trick to make a low volume high
> energy storage flywheel rugged enough for car use.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looking a little forward into the day in which there are a few of us
running conversions around town, I would like to decide what would be
best to have on a chargeing pole.
Both in front of my house and later strategically placed around town.
Obviously a typical 20amp 110V circuit is first. In public
applications, I think I would want a contactor to keep it dead until an
EV needs it for security and safety. Some way of activateing it.
Would issuing of keys or pin numbers be practical? maybe one day use
pins, log into a website and get todays PIN?
Ok, now for the fancier stuff, I know I have heard the word avcon tossed
around, I assume that is the second choice.
we would steer all high power charges to avcon? which one?
A little more wild :
Attended only of course, I would like to someday create a dump station.
For this to work "a dump port" would have to be installed in each
vehicle, (anderson 400A?) and the connection would have to be made dead
and activated live after verification of voltage differential.
I was thinking that behind the scenes we have a 300V pack of 6V floddies
that are charged and balanced slowly and has 2 taps to choose the spread
of cells that give the dump effect we need. Is dump chargeing such a
short duration item that 2 push buttons 18" apart operating a
contactor(if there exists voltage difference in the charge direction
>10 and < 12 volts (??)) would that be practical?
I have thought of a way to balance this pack at 20-50 amps using a pfc
without disapation for this scenario. It sounds like tracking the usage
per cell is needed if voltage is not enough.
I also assume dump chargeing currents are still small compared to
traction launches so agm's is not required? I may be wrong about that.
Lastly, How could I limit dump current?
A breaker, if it pops, move the tap down one and try again.
A carbon pile or a nichrome resistor?
PWM , a zilla(high side switching) with an inductor and a cap?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's gyroscopic precession. Trying to rotate the axis will result in
a force on the axis.
With two counterrotating gyros of the same mass and rpm, the sum of the
two forces should cancel out and the vehicle sees no net force.
However, each gyro still exhibits the same original force on its axle
and bearings. And the magnitude of force here looks like it will be
enormous!
Danny
Mark Fowler wrote:
Just a quick question about counter-rotating flywheels.
Do they truly cancel each other's gyro forces?
I'm thinking of the experiment where you sit on a swivel chair holding a
spinning bike wheel by the axle. If you try to twist the wheel, it is
hard to do, and ends up spinning you on the chair.
(see http://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/bicycle_wheel_gyro.html)
Now if there were two bike wheels on the axle spinning in opposite
directions, I imagine that it would still be difficult to twist the
wheels by the axle, though I would remain stationary on the chair.
Or do the opposing forces cancel each other to the point that it takes
no more effort than twisting a stationary bike wheel?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not too many lady EVistas around, so welcome!
> I'd appreciate any words of wisdom anyone would like to offer. Since
> the project is a restoration in addition to a conversion I'm keen to
> do something which will provide me with the greatest range rather
> than the cheapest cost. (A restoration is of course a large
> undertaking and allows me to budget much better for more expensive
> parts than a standard conversion I feel). I'm planning to include
> NiMh or NiCad batteries rather than lead acid too, since we may be
> moving to Ontario and I would like the car to still work well in cold
> weather!
>
> I would love to hear people's thoughts on this. The car, in her stock
> form, is a tad over 1600lbs kerbweight. The front end of the car has
> an unbelievable amount of space under the hood. Okay, so I won't be
> able to put everything under there if I want to keep weight
> distribution correct, but it does at least allow me the luxury of
> moving my trunk from front to back if the rather small trunk is taken
> up with batteries!
That's a pretty lightweight affair, so you could probably get away
with a 22kw AC system. Victor talks about it here:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/63982 Of
course, if you want to do some "tyre"-shredding, there's nothing like
a smaller Advance DC and any Zilla!
> In the meantime, feel free to visit the 'garagecam'. (http://
> www.aminorjourney.co.uk/webcam.jpg) It's updated every few minutes
> throughout the day and I hope will serve to keep me on track as
> several of my friends are all ready nagging at me when they don't see
> any progress on the car for a few days!
So, a musician, and a reed-mouthing one at that?! Lawrence plays
bassoon & contrabassoon and makes his own reeds, and my son heaves a
bari sax in high school. Something about music belongs with EVs (even
if it's a recording played on a Plasma Boy stereo)!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> That's gyroscopic precession. Trying to rotate the axis will result in
> a force on the axis.
> With two counterrotating gyros of the same mass and rpm, the sum of the
> two forces should cancel out and the vehicle sees no net force.
> However, each gyro still exhibits the same original force on its axle
> and bearings. And the magnitude of force here looks like it will be
> enormous!
>
You could say we're more likely to have EVs with nuclear power than
on-board gyro storage and be done with it...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dump charging with a bank of ultra caps? Can you imagine a converted
gas station with a setup like this? Is it possible? Is it feasible?
Would these charge up nearly instantly with 480v? How long would it
take to recharge one of the average sized packs on this list using
nothing but a bank of ultra caps that were connected to the grid?
Some sort of charger could be used if need be.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Ryan, it is certainly possible.
I think if electric charge stations become a reality, then they will use
far more mundane technology.
Most likely a huge array of low maintenance lead acid batteries.
(Or whatever chemistry gives the best value for money taking into
account lifetime, maintenance, safety, etc.)
The battery array will be big enough so that most of the day's charging
can be sourced from off-peak electricity overnight, with a bit of
on-peak topping up when things get busy.
Ultracaps are just too low capacity and too high cost in comparison to
lead to work in this arrangement.
Another thing is that there will be rules and regs about who can plug in
to a high speed charger.
I imagine that there will be a requirement for some sort of
communication between the car and the dump charger. Sorting things like
pack voltage, max charge current, battery type, charge algorithm, plus a
constant signal to say that everything is ok - please keep charging.
Just remember, all of the above is just my opinion - who knows what will
actually happen...
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
> Sent: Friday, 28 April 2006 10:55 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: EV Charging station
>
>
> Dump charging with a bank of ultra caps? Can you imagine a converted
> gas station with a setup like this? Is it possible? Is it feasible?
> Would these charge up nearly instantly with 480v? How long would it
> take to recharge one of the average sized packs on this list using
> nothing but a bank of ultra caps that were connected to the grid?
> Some sort of charger could be used if need be.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a nice engine for range extenders. It's high speed so it
could be coupled directly to 3600 RPM generators. And it's water
cooled for lower noise.
https://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006042718102623&item=28-1604&catname=engines
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A Hoof engine governor has shown up again at Surplus Center.
https://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006042718102623&item=28-1201&catname=engines
This is a superb governor, a vital ingredient for anyone who wants to
build a generator, a range booster or any other gas engine-powered
gadget where constant speed is important.
The last time a Hoof governor showed up, I bought up a large quantity
of them and have used the unit on for several projects. This governor
is much superior to the governors typically built into small engines.
A very nice feature of this governor is the amount of force generated
on the output arm. Several pounds. This means that it can drive a
long and convoluted throttle linkage, a throttle cable or other high
friction linkages.
The last batch had V-belt pulleys. This one has a gear drive. It
should not be hard to adapt a pulley or other form of drive. Ignore
the statement in the description about oil flowing through the
governor face. The governor has its own oil supply. All that
statement means is that the shaft seal is good enough that the
governor can be mounted directly to a crankcase and not pass engine
oil to the governor and vice versa.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Fowler writes:
>
>
> Another thing is that there will be rules and regs about who can plug in
> to a high speed charger.
> I imagine that there will be a requirement for some sort of
> communication between the car and the dump charger. Sorting things like
> pack voltage, max charge current, battery type, charge algorithm, plus a
> constant signal to say that everything is ok - please keep charging.
There are already SAE specs covering this. J1772 covers conductive
charging, with three different levels for charge stations providing
120vac (Level 1), 240vac (Level 2) for on-board chargers, and a third
level for high-power off-board chargers that provide up to 600vdc.
The Avcon system handles Level 2 on-bard chargers and the high-current
DC off-board chargers.
The spec also covers the communication between the vehicle and the
charging station to start charging.
Another SAE spec (J1773) covers inductive charging.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
Dump charging should preferably still use a charger ;-)
so it is the charger's job to accept the voltage from the
charger port and convert it to whatever the internal batteries
need at that moment.
Say you standardize at 400V DC and max 200A so you do not need too
extravagant cabling (2 AWG should be fine) then you may be able to
recharge most (flooded/racing) packs within 15 min to 80% or more.
If you have a 192V pack on board, you may see close to 400A when
your charger/buck converter steps the 400V down to around 210V.
Provided, of course that your batteries and your charger can handle
these currents.
AVCON is a proprietary 'standard' with a pilot signal next to
the high current pins. Only when the pilot has the proper signal
will the contactor close (in the standard form, there are
home-wired versions that are live as soon as the switch is
turned on)
Anderson makes high current connectors with two tiny contacts
between the high power ones. These can be used for the pilot
signal and indicate that the contacts are indeed closed.
I can send you a picture if you want, I have two here.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:37 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Chargeing plugs and dump chargeing
Looking a little forward into the day in which there are a few of us
running conversions around town, I would like to decide what would be
best to have on a chargeing pole.
Both in front of my house and later strategically placed around town.
Obviously a typical 20amp 110V circuit is first. In public
applications, I think I would want a contactor to keep it dead until an
EV needs it for security and safety. Some way of activateing it.
Would issuing of keys or pin numbers be practical? maybe one day use
pins, log into a website and get todays PIN?
Ok, now for the fancier stuff, I know I have heard the word avcon tossed
around, I assume that is the second choice.
we would steer all high power charges to avcon? which one?
A little more wild :
Attended only of course, I would like to someday create a dump station.
For this to work "a dump port" would have to be installed in each
vehicle, (anderson 400A?) and the connection would have to be made dead
and activated live after verification of voltage differential.
I was thinking that behind the scenes we have a 300V pack of 6V floddies
that are charged and balanced slowly and has 2 taps to choose the spread
of cells that give the dump effect we need. Is dump chargeing such a
short duration item that 2 push buttons 18" apart operating a
contactor(if there exists voltage difference in the charge direction
>10 and < 12 volts (??)) would that be practical?
I have thought of a way to balance this pack at 20-50 amps using a pfc
without disapation for this scenario. It sounds like tracking the usage
per cell is needed if voltage is not enough.
I also assume dump chargeing currents are still small compared to
traction launches so agm's is not required? I may be wrong about that.
Lastly, How could I limit dump current?
A breaker, if it pops, move the tap down one and try again.
A carbon pile or a nichrome resistor?
PWM , a zilla(high side switching) with an inductor and a cap?
--- End Message ---
