EV Digest 5420
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) pints and pubs
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Weight limits of micro micro cars
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Prius PHEV SOC Spoofing, Charge Limit Conundrum
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Weight limits of micro micro cars
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Hi There! (Introduction)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hybrid legalities
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Prius PHEV SOC Spoofing, Charge Limit Conundrum
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Hi There! (Introduction)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Now that's a hybrid
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) DC region needed: Battery tester
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: DC region needed: Battery tester
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) NEDRA ELECTION RESULTS
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Hi There! (Introduction)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Hi There! (Introduction)
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fat batts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV Charging station
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: EV Charging station
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: running hot
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
just changing the subject line .. what is being discussed has nothing
to do with EMB's anymore
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: OT... was Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries now
measurements
> > It's true
> >
> > Here in the UK shop-keepers are legally required to sell things in
> > metric, but we as customers are allowed to ask for the imperial
> > equivalent.
> >
> > That's true right down to the good old 'pint'. It's now technically
> > slightly more than a pint, I believe :)
> >
> > Nikki
> >
>
> You'd lose the alliteration of "popping down to the pub for a pint" if
> you had to ask for "half a litre"...
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/326 - Release Date: 27/04/2006
>
>
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To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo!
Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Hahaha Cheers mate!
Upgrading the suspension is one thing. But the structural integrity is
another. Its ok to stop at the moment with un powered all four drum brakes
on the vehicle.
But i just feel so sorry for the little suspension arms. Seriously the front
suspension set up looks like its off a giant go kart. Rear ones look strong.
And the gears are so tiny. I want further range, i got LRR pumped up tires
to 44psi.
They are rated to 45psi, Can i pump it further.
I don't know what else i could do to improve range other than increase the
capacity of my battery pack.
50kms i'll be happy with. That would make it damn practical..
Cheers
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Weight limits of micro micro cars
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:48:00 -0700
Hi Robert,
I am at the other end of the spectrum:
Starting with a 1994 Chevrolet S-10, US Electricar built
a factory conversion that weighed about 4800 lbs.
The original S-10 specs are Curb weight 2874 for the regular cab
long bed that was used for this conversion and standard payload
1715 lbs, so max weight would be 4589 lbs.
Of course the engine, exhaust, gas tank and other parts are
taken out of this car but the motor, controller, steering and
brake pumps and the new battery box add a lot of weight back in.
Since I upgraded my batteries, I have now an over 1800 lbs pack
so my guesstimate is that I am close to 5000 lbs, clearly over the
original max weight, but US Electricar already upgraded the
suspension to take extra load (added a spring leaf).
I have had no surprises, other than that it can be hard to stop
such a heavy car on wet streets without ABS - jumping on the
brakes when the light turned yellow in front of me and all I
did was slide towards the line, so I decided to run the
dark orange light.... No point in stopping in the middle of
an intersection.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Robert Chew
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Weight limits of micro micro cars
HI all,
I have been driving my converted Fiat 126 (bambino) (FSM Niki) for about 1
month now. It keeps up with traffic no problems and totally screams when
going downhill with about 120 km/hr tail wind. YEAH!
Now, the range is an issue. As i am using SCS225 and only 6 of them, i am
getting 25 km/hr range (stop and start driving).
I would like to in the very near future upgrade my battery pack and use the
current batts for a stand alond system or for another small ev project.
Besides the suspension, i am not sure of how much weight the car can handle
safely.
There is the GVM of 790kg. My car weighs 650kg.
There is a guy over here in Sydney that converted Daihatsu Mira's and he
used a 72 volt system with 12 - 6 volt trojan's, something like 400kg
battery weight.
The cars weigh pretty much the same as mine in petrol form , but my pack
only weighs 180kg's
I can upgrade suspension---no prob, but i am afraid that the little
components in the car's steering and suspension arms will not take the
extra
weight of say a 250kg pack.
Has anyone ever exceeded their GVM and had no probs with their car in terms
of reliablity and handling. Has anyone every broken components while
exceeding their GVM??
I think if my car had a useable range of 45km, it would put the vehicle
into
a whole new level and increase the practicality of it.
Cheers
_________________________________________________________________
15,000 Velocity Points Velocity NAB Credit Card
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings EVDL geniuses, we have a problem in search of a solution!
See the two threads (local or at Yahoo) for more details via:
http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/State_Of_Charge_Manipulation#Charge_Limit_Conundrum
The problem pertains to the hardware hacking of Prius and perhaps
other Hybrid powertrain management systems in Plug-in applications!
In short it's a two fold problem, when the PHEV pack (19*20Ah PbA
batteries) is fully charged small amounts of regen cause the voltage to
spike. This, besides not being especially healthy for the pack, yet not
unlike the SOC spoofing which involves applying an artificially high
voltage to the Battery ECU's module taps, causes the SOC to quickly rise
to 80% and beyond while lowering the Charge Current Limit (CCL). When
CCL falls from the normal 125A to 50A EV-mode is disabled and at 0A the
ICE races (perhaps to bleed of battery power or to compression brake).
We would like to avoid resorting to a replacement for the Toyota BMS as
EDrive has done, at the most we can utilize a CAN Scanning tool to
monitor the perceived SOC and CCL values.
One suggestions thus far is to just divert current above the CCL away
from the battery and into a big air-cooled resistor. This is what
diesel-electric locomotives do to dissipate the kinetic energy during
braking. If we used a contactor instead of an IGBT, it could even be
inexpensive.
Any ideas would be most appreciated.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Robert,
I doubt if I need to say this, but check the toe-in of the wheels,
for max range it should be zero or close to zero, whatever the factory
spec allows closest to zero to reduce drag.
My tires are max 35 PSI spec but I have them at 50 PSI now as an EV
will never do a long journey, running the wheels hot and the flex
of the sidewall was too much at 35 PSI.
In a sharp curve I almost tore the front tires off the rim because
the pressure was so low (riding ON the sidewall, scuff marks and
chunks of rubber disappeared from the tire near the rim.
I could have taken that corner a little slower....
Range comes from pack capacity and energy per mile (resistance).
So if you cannot lower resistance, then only capacity increase can
bring you further (or a recharge).
>From what you mention, I think a larger pack should not be a problem
unless you really want to load the car full of people and luggage.
Note that we can routinely have 3 passengers and luggage in the car,
adding up to 800-900 lbs (400kg) to the normal weight but we are
concerned about adding 100 kg of batteries....
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Robert Chew
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Weight limits of micro micro cars
Hahaha Cheers mate!
Upgrading the suspension is one thing. But the structural integrity is
another. Its ok to stop at the moment with un powered all four drum brakes
on the vehicle.
But i just feel so sorry for the little suspension arms. Seriously the front
suspension set up looks like its off a giant go kart. Rear ones look strong.
And the gears are so tiny. I want further range, i got LRR pumped up tires
to 44psi.
They are rated to 45psi, Can i pump it further.
I don't know what else i could do to improve range other than increase the
capacity of my battery pack.
50kms i'll be happy with. That would make it damn practical..
Cheers
>From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Weight limits of micro micro cars
>Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:48:00 -0700
>
>Hi Robert,
>
>I am at the other end of the spectrum:
>Starting with a 1994 Chevrolet S-10, US Electricar built
>a factory conversion that weighed about 4800 lbs.
>The original S-10 specs are Curb weight 2874 for the regular cab
>long bed that was used for this conversion and standard payload
>1715 lbs, so max weight would be 4589 lbs.
>Of course the engine, exhaust, gas tank and other parts are
>taken out of this car but the motor, controller, steering and
>brake pumps and the new battery box add a lot of weight back in.
>Since I upgraded my batteries, I have now an over 1800 lbs pack
>so my guesstimate is that I am close to 5000 lbs, clearly over the
>original max weight, but US Electricar already upgraded the
>suspension to take extra load (added a spring leaf).
>
>I have had no surprises, other than that it can be hard to stop
>such a heavy car on wet streets without ABS - jumping on the
>brakes when the light turned yellow in front of me and all I
>did was slide towards the line, so I decided to run the
>dark orange light.... No point in stopping in the middle of
>an intersection.
>
>Cor van de Water
>Systems Architect
>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
>Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
>Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Behalf Of Robert Chew
>Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:25 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Weight limits of micro micro cars
>
>
>HI all,
>
>I have been driving my converted Fiat 126 (bambino) (FSM Niki) for about 1
>month now. It keeps up with traffic no problems and totally screams when
>going downhill with about 120 km/hr tail wind. YEAH!
>
>Now, the range is an issue. As i am using SCS225 and only 6 of them, i am
>getting 25 km/hr range (stop and start driving).
>
>I would like to in the very near future upgrade my battery pack and use the
>current batts for a stand alond system or for another small ev project.
>
>Besides the suspension, i am not sure of how much weight the car can handle
>safely.
>There is the GVM of 790kg. My car weighs 650kg.
>There is a guy over here in Sydney that converted Daihatsu Mira's and he
>used a 72 volt system with 12 - 6 volt trojan's, something like 400kg
>battery weight.
>
>The cars weigh pretty much the same as mine in petrol form , but my pack
>only weighs 180kg's
>
>I can upgrade suspension---no prob, but i am afraid that the little
>components in the car's steering and suspension arms will not take the
>extra
>
>weight of say a 250kg pack.
>
>Has anyone ever exceeded their GVM and had no probs with their car in terms
>of reliablity and handling. Has anyone every broken components while
>exceeding their GVM??
>
>I think if my car had a useable range of 45km, it would put the vehicle
>into
>
>a whole new level and increase the practicality of it.
>
>Cheers
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>15,000 Velocity Points Velocity NAB Credit Card
>http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fadsfac%2Enet%2Flink%2Easp%3
F
>cc%3DNAT030%2E23080%2E0%26clk%3D1%26creativeID%3D34301&_t=754983092&_r=emai
l
>tagline&_m=EXT
>
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Nikki,
Welcome from warm California. I am actually Dutch, but moved
to Silicon Valley for my work.
With its light weight and small size, the Minor is an excellent
candidate for a conversion - if you do not mind the restoration...
(Usual advice is to find a rust-free and light body of a car
produced in high numbers for parts availability and with a
blown engine for minimal cost and start from there to have
many years of trouble-free driving before worrying about the rust)
My friend used to have a Mini Cooper and wants to convert that,
but his recent marriage does not allow him to spend either
time or money on that project...
AC drive can be coupled to a gearbox, often you can leave out
the clutch because you can leave it in the same gear all the time.
I have a US Electricar with 50 kW AC motor, mated to the stock
gearbox which is locked in 2nd gear, giving me 72 MPH at redline
(9000 RPM) for my motor. It is not a good comparison though, as
this is a 5000 lbs truck....
Good to have different springs, that should help to get the
car back to the proper drive height after the conversion.
Feel free to ask questions - there are many people with
experience on this list!
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of nikki
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hi There! (Introduction)
On Apr 28, 2006, at 1:28 AM, Death to All Spammers wrote:
> Not too many lady EVistas around, so welcome!
Thanks so much. I'm really hoping I can prove all my doubters wrong.
Some of which are family and friends, who think that regardless of my
gender the idea of an electric Minor is silly...
>
>> I'd appreciate any words of wisdom anyone would like to offer. Since
>> the project is a restoration in addition to a conversion I'm keen to
>> do something which will provide me with the greatest range rather
>> than the cheapest cost. (A restoration is of course a large
>> undertaking and allows me to budget much better for more expensive
>> parts than a standard conversion I feel). I'm planning to include
>> NiMh or NiCad batteries rather than lead acid too, since we may be
>> moving to Ontario and I would like the car to still work well in cold
>> weather!
>>
>> I would love to hear people's thoughts on this. The car, in her stock
>> form, is a tad over 1600lbs kerbweight. The front end of the car has
>> an unbelievable amount of space under the hood. Okay, so I won't be
>> able to put everything under there if I want to keep weight
>> distribution correct, but it does at least allow me the luxury of
>> moving my trunk from front to back if the rather small trunk is taken
>> up with batteries!
>
> That's a pretty lightweight affair, so you could probably get away
> with a 22kw AC system. Victor talks about it here:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/63982 Of
> course, if you want to do some "tyre"-shredding, there's nothing like
> a smaller Advance DC and any Zilla!
Heh. Tyre-shredding isn't on my list. Since I'm half Canadian and my
partner is American we're planning a move to Canada. I believe the
speed limit in Ontario is about 65 mph, and over here in the UK I can
cope doing 70 although 75 would be nice. Since most of that would be
freeway driving I don't mind taking a while to get to that magic
number. After all, the original car had a 0-60 of about 24 seconds!
While my car is pretty light however, I may be called on occasionally
to carry instruments around, so something which could take the extra
weight would be useful. Since my car is the lightest of the Minor
incarnations I have at my disposal two different stock leaf springs
to use on the back; the strongest of which was designed to be used
with the 6cwt light commercials!
I'd been thinking about the Siemens based systems. As I'm in the Uk
it seems the sensible choice. At the moment however I do need to
figure out exactly how much of the original car I can take out
without compromising the car's free-tax status and original
registration. As I understand it I need to retain a certain
percentage of the original components in order to prevent a
compulosry "re-registration" and SVA test. The second my car gets re-
tested then I exporting it to Canada becomes a nightmare since it
would be classed as a "new build" and therefore would be difficult to
get through some of the more stringent Canadian saftey checks. If I
am forced to keep the gearbox from my car (can I do that with an AC
system?) then I was leaning toward a DC motor. Ideally though I want
to ditch it. Has anyone put an AC system in a car and ran it through
the standard 'box? Sorry to be so ignorant!
>
>
>> In the meantime, feel free to visit the 'garagecam'. (http://
>> www.aminorjourney.co.uk/webcam.jpg) It's updated every few minutes
>> throughout the day and I hope will serve to keep me on track as
>> several of my friends are all ready nagging at me when they don't see
>> any progress on the car for a few days!
>
> So, a musician, and a reed-mouthing one at that?! Lawrence plays
> bassoon & contrabassoon and makes his own reeds, and my son heaves a
> bari sax in high school. Something about music belongs with EVs (even
> if it's a recording played on a Plasma Boy stereo)!
I love Baritone sax! As for Contrabassoon- I have some fun tales of
sitting next to one in a performance of Haydn's Creation and not
being able to keep a straight face as every time the thing played the
regular Basoonist would look around in complete fiegned shock and
horror as if some terrible creature had been released from the deep!
Yes, I'm an oboist. I do try to make a living from it and thankfully
all the hard work seems to be paying off. That is of course, when
I'm not geeking about with EV stuff and computers!
By the way. How rude. I assumed that everyone knew what a minor was.
If you're not a UK or Australian or NZ person you may not:
http://www.motorbase.com/vehicle/by-id/1077/
A webpage I cooked up a few weeks ago is here:
http://aminorjourney.co.uk/Photos/EV/preEV/
And this morning i've been uploading some more recent photos of the
strip-down.
http://aminorjourney.co.uk/wordpress/gallery/?file=Hebe%20EV%
20progress%2025April/
Please forgive the terrible coding. I've just installed the plugin
and haven't got it to work just as I want it to yet!
I know there's someone else who is planning an EV conversion to a
pickup...
Regards
NIkki
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well there might be some issues in claiming tax incentives...
As far as I know the only fuel source currently forbidden to home
converters is Propane (that's nation wide).
I think there is one state (Minnisota?) that requires converters take a
class or be licensed or something. But as far as I know California has no
such requirement.
Other than that, knock yourself out. I'd reccomend keeping detailed
records, photos, maintain receipts, etc. for when you go to register the
vehicle.
Though the above is more important if you are building a vehicle from
scratch or modifying it to the point where it is no longer recognizable.
Oh yeah, california does have issues with emissions. I believe they
require that the new engine meets or exceeds the emiision requirements for
the original engine. There might be a loophole in this for scratch built
vehicles though.
> Hey all, I'm new to this list, and I have yet to begin the conversion
> project I have planned. I'd really like any pointers all you have for
> the legalities of electric and hybrid conversions... and here's the hard
> part: in California.
>
> I'm especially interested in the legalities concerning the various
> options for a hybrid systems's power unit: Gasoline, Diesel even Turbine
> (eg. Capstone).
>
> Thanks!
>
> Erik G. Burrows
> www.erikburrows.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
Indeed - if you have regeneration then you better only
send the current to the batteries when the SOC is below 80%
or you will indeed spike (and gas) your batteries.
I tried to fiddle with my regen settings and had my controller
fault out at the freeway after another driver cut in front
of me and brake sharp to make it to the offramp.
My loggings showed that my 312V pack climbed to 420V under
120A current and the mav voltage setpoint of the controller was
reached, it dropped the contactors and shut down.
Since then I heard that batteries do not take a fast charge
well if they still are above 80% full. Up to 80% a dump
charge can be consumed wihtout problem.
Now I have my controller back to (almost) original settings
where the regen does not start unless SOC of <80% is indicated.
This means that I must drive about 10 miles before the pack will
take some breaking-regen.
Until that moment I can send a trickle in the pack (releasing
accelerator) but not more. When I just pull away with a full
pack, I will not get any regen current.
Only consequence is that the mechanical brakes need to work a
bit harder, there is no complexity of load-diversion like with
a wind turbine.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lightning Ryan
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Prius PHEV SOC Spoofing, Charge Limit Conundrum
Greetings EVDL geniuses, we have a problem in search of a solution!
See the two threads (local or at Yahoo) for more details via:
http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/State_Of_Charge_Manipulation#Charge_Limit_Conun
drum
The problem pertains to the hardware hacking of Prius and perhaps
other Hybrid powertrain management systems in Plug-in applications!
In short it's a two fold problem, when the PHEV pack (19*20Ah PbA
batteries) is fully charged small amounts of regen cause the voltage to
spike. This, besides not being especially healthy for the pack, yet not
unlike the SOC spoofing which involves applying an artificially high
voltage to the Battery ECU's module taps, causes the SOC to quickly rise
to 80% and beyond while lowering the Charge Current Limit (CCL). When
CCL falls from the normal 125A to 50A EV-mode is disabled and at 0A the
ICE races (perhaps to bleed of battery power or to compression brake).
We would like to avoid resorting to a replacement for the Toyota BMS as
EDrive has done, at the most we can utilize a CAN Scanning tool to
monitor the perceived SOC and CCL values.
One suggestions thus far is to just divert current above the CCL away
from the battery and into a big air-cooled resistor. This is what
diesel-electric locomotives do to dissipate the kinetic energy during
braking. If we used a contactor instead of an IGBT, it could even be
inexpensive.
Any ideas would be most appreciated.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BTW,
There is a Mini Pickup in the EV Album:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/254.html
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of nikki
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hi There! (Introduction)
On Apr 28, 2006, at 1:28 AM, Death to All Spammers wrote:
> Not too many lady EVistas around, so welcome!
Thanks so much. I'm really hoping I can prove all my doubters wrong.
Some of which are family and friends, who think that regardless of my
gender the idea of an electric Minor is silly...
>
>> I'd appreciate any words of wisdom anyone would like to offer. Since
>> the project is a restoration in addition to a conversion I'm keen to
>> do something which will provide me with the greatest range rather
>> than the cheapest cost. (A restoration is of course a large
>> undertaking and allows me to budget much better for more expensive
>> parts than a standard conversion I feel). I'm planning to include
>> NiMh or NiCad batteries rather than lead acid too, since we may be
>> moving to Ontario and I would like the car to still work well in cold
>> weather!
>>
>> I would love to hear people's thoughts on this. The car, in her stock
>> form, is a tad over 1600lbs kerbweight. The front end of the car has
>> an unbelievable amount of space under the hood. Okay, so I won't be
>> able to put everything under there if I want to keep weight
>> distribution correct, but it does at least allow me the luxury of
>> moving my trunk from front to back if the rather small trunk is taken
>> up with batteries!
>
> That's a pretty lightweight affair, so you could probably get away
> with a 22kw AC system. Victor talks about it here:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/63982 Of
> course, if you want to do some "tyre"-shredding, there's nothing like
> a smaller Advance DC and any Zilla!
Heh. Tyre-shredding isn't on my list. Since I'm half Canadian and my
partner is American we're planning a move to Canada. I believe the
speed limit in Ontario is about 65 mph, and over here in the UK I can
cope doing 70 although 75 would be nice. Since most of that would be
freeway driving I don't mind taking a while to get to that magic
number. After all, the original car had a 0-60 of about 24 seconds!
While my car is pretty light however, I may be called on occasionally
to carry instruments around, so something which could take the extra
weight would be useful. Since my car is the lightest of the Minor
incarnations I have at my disposal two different stock leaf springs
to use on the back; the strongest of which was designed to be used
with the 6cwt light commercials!
I'd been thinking about the Siemens based systems. As I'm in the Uk
it seems the sensible choice. At the moment however I do need to
figure out exactly how much of the original car I can take out
without compromising the car's free-tax status and original
registration. As I understand it I need to retain a certain
percentage of the original components in order to prevent a
compulosry "re-registration" and SVA test. The second my car gets re-
tested then I exporting it to Canada becomes a nightmare since it
would be classed as a "new build" and therefore would be difficult to
get through some of the more stringent Canadian saftey checks. If I
am forced to keep the gearbox from my car (can I do that with an AC
system?) then I was leaning toward a DC motor. Ideally though I want
to ditch it. Has anyone put an AC system in a car and ran it through
the standard 'box? Sorry to be so ignorant!
>
>
>> In the meantime, feel free to visit the 'garagecam'. (http://
>> www.aminorjourney.co.uk/webcam.jpg) It's updated every few minutes
>> throughout the day and I hope will serve to keep me on track as
>> several of my friends are all ready nagging at me when they don't see
>> any progress on the car for a few days!
>
> So, a musician, and a reed-mouthing one at that?! Lawrence plays
> bassoon & contrabassoon and makes his own reeds, and my son heaves a
> bari sax in high school. Something about music belongs with EVs (even
> if it's a recording played on a Plasma Boy stereo)!
I love Baritone sax! As for Contrabassoon- I have some fun tales of
sitting next to one in a performance of Haydn's Creation and not
being able to keep a straight face as every time the thing played the
regular Basoonist would look around in complete fiegned shock and
horror as if some terrible creature had been released from the deep!
Yes, I'm an oboist. I do try to make a living from it and thankfully
all the hard work seems to be paying off. That is of course, when
I'm not geeking about with EV stuff and computers!
By the way. How rude. I assumed that everyone knew what a minor was.
If you're not a UK or Australian or NZ person you may not:
http://www.motorbase.com/vehicle/by-id/1077/
A webpage I cooked up a few weeks ago is here:
http://aminorjourney.co.uk/Photos/EV/preEV/
And this morning i've been uploading some more recent photos of the
strip-down.
http://aminorjourney.co.uk/wordpress/gallery/?file=Hebe%20EV%
20progress%2025April/
Please forgive the terrible coding. I've just installed the plugin
and haven't got it to work just as I want it to yet!
I know there's someone else who is planning an EV conversion to a
pickup...
Regards
NIkki
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He is using NiCads, so the difference is negligible.
> On Apr 27, 2006, at 4:33 AM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>> FWIW, if you ignore aerodynamic looses, the energy required to climb a
>> hill is basically the same whether you go up it fast or slow. So,
>> if you
>> have the power, you are better off going up it fast and keeping the
>> motor
>> heating do
>
> But the power consumption will be higher, meaning you'll be drawing
> power out of your batteries faster, and faster rates of discharge
> lower the battery capacity.
>
> Ed Kellogg
>
> e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ChatÂ… eckellogg138 (AIM)
> eckellogg3838 (AIM)
> Skype eckellogg
> ICQ 243051412
>
>
>
>
>
>>> a single charge, but I wasn't sure how much tougher the second
>>> half of the
>>> run would be. I have a two mile very steep grade to climb to get
>>> over the
>>> hills. I'm using back roads, so the speed limit is slower which
>>> is an
>>> advantage as far as ahrs used, but the gearing on my EM is such
>>> that I was
>>> worried I might overheat my motor at the lower RPMs. The motor
>>> did get
>>> hot, but not so hot to have me worried.
>>
>> wn.
>>
>> You might have the best results by taking a run at it and keeping the
>> throttle wide open the whole way up.
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
>> whatever I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
>> long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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2 weeks ago I ordered a new battery load tester from Harbor Freight.
Still hasn't arrived and they say it could take 14 days for it to ship.
Does anyone have a battery load tester in the Washington DC/Baltimore MD
area that I could borrow on Saturday? Or know where I can get one locally?
Chris
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they sell them off the shelf at tractor supply store here in ny mike y
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:13 AM
Subject: DC region needed: Battery tester
> 2 weeks ago I ordered a new battery load tester from Harbor Freight.
> Still hasn't arrived and they say it could take 14 days for it to ship.
>
> Does anyone have a battery load tester in the Washington DC/Baltimore MD
> area that I could borrow on Saturday? Or know where I can get one locally?
>
> Chris
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The results of the NEDRA Election are in and the new NEDRA President is
Brian Hall and Vice President is Don Crabtree, aka "Father Time".
Congratulations to Brian and Don and a hearty thanks to Shawn and John
who participated in the election. The Presidential race was won by a
slim margin as you can tell from the results. 72 percent of the NEDRA
membership voted which is notable since it shows the majority of the
membership is interested in seeing NEDRA move forward. The newly
elected officers and NEDRA Board will serve a two year term.
We'd also like to thank Mark Bahlke, the anonymous third party, who was
the custodian of the election. He did a terrific job in overseeing and
counting the ballots.
The election results:
Return receipts received: 60
Bounced ballots: 4
Total ballots received: 43
Votes received per candidate:
President:
Shawn Lawless: 21
Brian Hall: 22
Vice-President:
Don Crabtree: 36
John Armond: 7
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
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Hi Nikki, welcome to Canada (I am on the west coast). A couple of things
come to mind about your upcoming conversion.
1. your car will have to pass a provincial inspection for out-of province
vehicle. If at all possible, try to get this **before** you convert the
vehicle. It will make the process easier. I did this with my New Beetle,
others in Canada have done the same. Maybe, do the full restore, get the
ICE working (enough), get registration, then convert to electric?
2. I presume the minor uses the A series engine, like the Minis? But is it
mounted transversely like the mini (front wheel drive) or mounted
longitudaly like a Sprite (rear wheel drive)? The difference being, if
mounted transversely, the engine and the gearbox share the same oil sump and
the same oil pump (which may or may not be required). You will need to a
little extra work to block off the gaping hole to the transmission and
either chain or use special drop gears the electric motor to the gearbox.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of nikki
Sent: April 27, 2006 2:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Hi There! (Introduction)
Hi everyone!
I thought it good practice to introduce myself as I've finally managed to
subscribe to the EV list.
My name is Nikki and I'm currently living in Bristol, UK. I'm a professional
musician who tries to be ecologically sound in all I do.
I've always been a bit of a "do it yourself" girl and have wanted to own an
EV car for a long time. After owning a very unecologically sound hot rod I'm
wanting to make up a bit with a very clean car!
I'm planning the conversion of my 1965 Morris Minor 2-door sedan, which I
am currently restoring.
At the moment the car has been stripped of a large proportion of her
mechanical components. The great thing about working from home for me is
that I can use the time most people would spend commuting to work on my
car's conversion.
Once stripped I'm going to replace any of the rusted floor panels with stock
replacements and then set about fabricating the specialist parts. At the
moment I'm torn between an AC system using direct drive to the rear wheels
(negating the need for conventional transmission and consequently decreasing
the weight) or sticking with a cheaper DC motor mated to the car's original
but rebuilt gearbox.
I'd appreciate any words of wisdom anyone would like to offer. Since the
project is a restoration in addition to a conversion I'm keen to do
something which will provide me with the greatest range rather than the
cheapest cost. (A restoration is of course a large undertaking and allows
me to budget much better for more expensive parts than a standard conversion
I feel). I'm planning to include NiMh or NiCad batteries rather than lead
acid too, since we may be moving to Ontario and I would like the car to
still work well in cold weather!
I would love to hear people's thoughts on this. The car, in her stock form,
is a tad over 1600lbs kerbweight. The front end of the car has an
unbelievable amount of space under the hood. Okay, so I won't be able to put
everything under there if I want to keep weight distribution correct, but it
does at least allow me the luxury of moving my trunk from front to back if
the rather small trunk is taken up with batteries!
In the meantime, feel free to visit the 'garagecam'. (http://
www.aminorjourney.co.uk/webcam.jpg) It's updated every few minutes
throughout the day and I hope will serve to keep me on track as several of
my friends are all ready nagging at me when they don't see any progress on
the car for a few days!
Regards
Nikki
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On 4/28/06, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2. I presume the minor uses the A series engine, like the Minis? But is it
> mounted transversely like the mini (front wheel drive) or mounted
> longitudaly like a Sprite (rear wheel drive)?
You can see from the photos that it's RWD.
This page has more specifications:
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z9572/Morris_Minor%201000/default.aspx
Apparently it can do 73mph with a 25kW peak engine.
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Christopher Zach wrote:
> Any idea why the battery would weigh more after 2 years operation?
Accumulated mileage? :-)
Seriously, I have no idea how they'd *gain* weight, unless someone has
added water to them. Otherwise, one has to guess that they were heavier
when new.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
OK, that is impessive. And it even looks like a gas pump. There may be
an idea, make sure it looks and works like a gas pump ala phelps tractor.
I am sure that is quiet expensive and would have to be power by
something huge, How would this be better than a zilla off a pack. I
want to actually do this and spending 250,000 for a charger I can't plug
in may be an issue.
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OK, looks like a pfc would do it, but it still needs a dump pack. The
75KW went right by me i guess. I got use to hearing PFC20 being 20A,
pfc30 being 30A, etc, that I just read into those posts as 75A chargers.
this sounds doable, just have to figure out how to make a filling port
and "pump" for safe
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David Dymaxion wrote:
> Agreed, but I thought of a couple cases where it might make sense:
> You want to do a really cheap conversion (kind of like the e-volks
> kits). So you throw in a constant speed shunt motor, and let the
> tranny change speeds. No controller is needed now. Mind you, probably
> not the greatest way to go, but possibly the cheapest.
Bob McKee is a professional race car chassis builder. He built a series
of EVs (Sundancer, Mk16 Commuter, etc.) which were superb performers.
These cars could go over 60 mph and over 100 miles on a charge with just
twelve 6v golf cart batteries. He did careful experiments with different
drive trains in an effort to measure exactly what the consequences were.
He tried series, shunt, sepex, and PM motors; contactor and PWM
controllers; and fixed ratio differential, 2-speed transaxle, and
continuously variable transaxle (twin v-belts with variable speed
pulleys, driving each back wheel separately to replace transmission and
differential).
His conclusion was that all had very similar efficiency, range, and
performance. The differences between them were mainly "finesse" (how
careful you were in building it, and how much money you spent on it).
Contactor and PWM controllers had the same efficiency and range.
Contactors were cheaper, but PWM's were smoother and more "drivable".
The CVT worked best with the shunt and PM motors, which otherwise had
trouble maintaining efficiency and high enough horsepower over a wide
speed range.
Personally, I think the PM motor, contactor controller, and variable
speed belt transmission setup looks the most promising for an
inexpensive, efficient EV.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
brian baumel wrote:
>
> no, I was driving it in the higher RPMs (like
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]). I'm not completely sure there is enough
> room between the motor and controller for a heat sink.
> I have some larger rectangular ones that may fit on
> the bottom sides. then I'll probably mount 2-4
> blowers(temp controlled). so forced air should be able
> to cool it effectivly?
I'm using a Curtis 1231C controller, 132v pack, and ADC 6.7" motor. My
controller is mounted to a 13" x 20" x 1/8" aluminum plate, which also
mounts the contactors, shunt, precharge circuit, and other misc. high
voltage parts. No heatsink.
This plate is mounted 1/2" above the floor of a "tunnel" about 6" high x
13" wide. The floor and right side of this tunnel are the inside right
front fender well. The top and left sides are a plastic panel.
A 4.5" square 12vdc muffin fan blows air lengthwise through this box.
The controller never runs any hotter than 120 deg.F (hot to the touch,
but not so hot that you could not leave your hand on it).
This setup has less square inches of surface area than your plate; but
it has a good 100 CFM of airflow over it, directed so it makes good
contact with all surfaces of the controller and mounting plate.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
