EV Digest 5424
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Coolfuel Roadtrip running an EV off whisky and cow poop)-Long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(First hybrid car fest held in Madison 07/22/06)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(FGC Zenn nevs not allowed on Canadian streets)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Motor Blowers - do you use them? how?
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(EVs & nevs for Vancouver's geek central)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV Charging station
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Another Prius Article
by "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!)
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Eagle Picher Horizon 1250 battery
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor Blowers - do you use them? how?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Fatboy not fairlady
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Motor Blowers - do you use them? how?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) AVCON Pilot Grounded
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Motor Blowers - do you use them? how?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Coolfuel Roadtrip running an EV off whisky and cow poop)-Long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1144922848110
Blazing a trail with whisky and cow poop
TV show crosses U.S. without using gasoline
30 different vehicles in series starting Tuesday
Apr. 15, 2006. 01:00 AM SHERRYLL SOBIE SPECIAL TO THE STAR
What do cow poop, actor Daryl Hannah, a custom Chevy S10 pickup
and Froot Loops have in common? Answer: Coolfuel: Roadtrip, a
13-part television series debuting on OLN, hosted by Australian
adventurer Shaun Murphy.
The series follows the 39-year-old Murphy and his crew, which
includes three humans and one scene-stealing canine, as they
cross the U.S. using 30 one-of-a-kind vehicles and 12 varieties
of alternative fuel.
In eight months, they cover 25,750 kilometres and 30 states using
bio-diesel, pure vegetable oil, corn whiskey, hot rocks (thermal
energy), and, yes, cow dung and Froot Loops. Just about anything
but gasoline.
Along the way, Murphy and sidekick Sparky, his Jack Russell,
collect fresh Wisconsin cow poop to power an Electra Cruiser (an
electric-powered Harley-Davidson style motorcycle), hang with
Hannah on her fully sustainable Colorado ranch, score some
Canadian hemp oil for the Chevy S10 and concoct a breakfast of
champions (Froot Loops, marshmallows and more) for a voracious
stretch limo Hummer.
"At the start we were going by the seat of our pants. We really
weren't sure if we could make it," says Murphy, a well-known TV
personality in Australia, who has produced and hosted National
Geographic and Discovery wildlife, travel and adventure shows for
the past 10 years.
They began by calling and emailing prospective owners of
alternative energy vehicles, Murphy says, and the response was
tremendous.
Soon word-of-mouth took over and people were offering up all
sorts of interesting vehicles like a 1996 BMW Z3 Roadster that
runs on 100 per cent corn whisky, a bio-diesel grass car (a 1982
VW Jetta covered in AstroTurf), a T-Zero (the fastest electric
car in the world), and more.
"We were three Aussies, a New Zealander and a very cute dog
(Sparky) running off our personalities, hoping to hell that these
people would lend us their vehicles and point us in the direction
to get or make some fuel," says Murphy, who lives in Sydney and
drives a Land Rover that runs on bio-diesel.
In episode four, Murphy and the gang are in Wisconsin America's
Dairyland. The state is known for its milk and cheese, but what
really gets the cool fuel connoisseur's mouth watering are the
mountains of cow manure.
"Cow poop produces methane," says Murphy. "So all we had to do
was find farmers who were producing electricity from methane gas
in the cow poop. And, lo and behold, we found a bunch."
The poop is collected and placed in an anaerobic digester where
it decomposes with the help of bacteria. The decomposed material
creates methane, which Murphy uses to charge up the Electra
Cruiser's 10 12-volt batteries.
In the episode prior to the cow pies, Murphy rides around on an
El Chopper ET motorcycle with Daryl Hannah (Blade Runner, Splash,
Kill Bill). The El Chopper's motor can be operated at 24, 36 or
48 volts and 400 amps. Its performance ranges from 48 km/h to
96-plus km/h.
Hannah has a truck that runs on soybeans, and in Murphy's words,
also has "some other really groovy things going on at her ranch."
To find out more, though, you'll have to tune into the show.
Another truck featured in the show, and one that will appeal to
truck enthusiasts who like a little bling, is the Chevy S10
pickup. Sporting a helicopter turbine engine and two exhausts
that blow flames, the souped-up S10 spirits Murphy and Sparky
across Alabama on hempoline.
And the hemp oil, which is the major ingredient in hempoline,
comes courtesy of Canada.
"Up to that point, the Chevy had never used anything but diesel.
In the show, we run it on 80 per cent Canadian hemp oil and 20
per cent bio-corn whisky.
"When it starts up it sounds like a chopper, like, Woo, wooooo!'"
Murphy mimics. "Anyone who's near it goes, `What the heck is
that?! That thing is going to take off!'
"It goes 160 m.p.h. (257 km/h). It absolutely goes like the
clappers. It flies!"
Now from hemp oil to another multi-purpose fuel source Froot
Loops. It only makes sense that the neon-coloured, sugar-coated
cereal is reserved for the finest of vehicles travelling through
California, the most glamorous of all American states.
But the H1 Hummer stretch limo, at 9.75 metres long with a
6.5-litre diesel engine, has the appetite of a hefty linebacker.
So Murphy feeds it with five different fuels.
"The purpose of the mixed concoction was to give it an extra
punch like a vitamin shot. Its base fuel is bio-diesel with an
ethanol booster at the back, which pumps the power up. To get
extra muscle and mileage, we also had a gasifier that vapourizes
food to provide fuel, plus 10 solar panels on the roof that
produced electricity to create hydrogen, and a hydrogen
converter," Murphy says.
Something a little more utilitarian is the 1989 Ford Econoline
van that Murphy and Sparky drive through Texas on straight peanut
and veggie oil.
"They are true fuels that you can run a diesel engine on," Murphy
says.
In fact, Rudolf Diesel, who invented the diesel motor in the
1890s, designed it to run not on petroleum, but on peanut oil.
How is it done? First Murphy collects used veggie oil from greasy
spoons and then filters it using an old T-shirt. After that, it's
poured directly into the tank.
"As long as the temperature is above 70°F (21°C) you can run any
diesel with two tanks, on straight veggie oil. We would start one
tank on bio-diesel, let it run for five minutes to allow the
veggie oil to heat up and then switch it over," Murphy says.
It sounds like an elementary science experiment. But would it be
so simple for the average car owner to make the switch?
Murphy thinks so.
"We have a choice of gasoline engines or diesel engines. For
normal, everyday gasoline engines, you can run on 90 per cent
gasoline and 10 per cent ethanol. You can do this right now.
Diesel engines can go bio-diesel with 80 per cent vegetable oil
and 20 per cent ethanol. We can stick that in any existing diesel
engine, no modifications required."
Aside from environmental benefits which are major switching
to a cleaner burning alternative fuel also means saving lots of
money.
A 20-litre bucket of used veggie oil costs Murphy nothing.
Compare that with 20 litres of gasoline: at an average of $1 per
litre, the cost is $20.
What's stopping us from making the switch? According to Murphy it
boils down to education. And from there, it's a domino effect.
Once the education comes, he says, there will be demand and then
there will be infrastructure.
Murphy says the push has already begun.
"Demand for ethanol has grown tremendously over the past two to
three years, and the amount of ethanol plants has doubled in the
last five years.
"There's no doubt about it. You can grow your own fuel," he says,
adding, "How cool is that?"
So adopting the cool fuel philosophy is not a far-fetched or
strange thing.
"No matter where you are in the world, everyone has farmers.
Sugar and corn farmers are looking for an extra income and fuel
could be an answer. It's a match made in heaven. It's bizarre
that we haven't totally gone there yet."
Maybe soon. In the meantime, what's next for Murphy, Sparky and
the crew?
"We're planning on doing a series in Canada where we run vehicles
on beer, poutine, Screech and wheat."
Now that's cool.
Coolfuel: Roadtrip, a 13-part series, premieres Tuesday on OLN at
8 p.m. For more info, see http://www.coolfuelroadtrip.com
Copyright Toronto Star Newspapers Limited. All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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EVLN(First hybrid car fest held in Madison 07/22/06)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.madison.com/tct/news/index.php?ntid=80180&ntpid=3
First hybrid car fest to be held here
July 22 event coincides with Dane County Fair
By Jeff Richgels April 14, 2006
There probably isn't a more appropriate venue than Madison for an
event celebrating hybrid vehicles.
Madison, which by some accounts has the highest per person
ownership of hybrid vehicles in the country, will be the site of
"Hybridfest 2006" on July 22 at the Alliant Energy Center, in
conjunction with the Dane County Fair.
The event is so grass-roots you can almost smell the fresh
clippings: The five organizers are volunteers with no ties to the
industry beyond being hybrid owners.
"That's the neat thing," said Bill Robbins, one of the
organizers. "All we really are is five hybrid enthusiasts locally
who have found each other and said, 'Let's create this event.' "
The other organizers are Eric Powers, who created the Madison
Hybrid Group; Richard Steeves; Linda Weidemann; and Bradlee Fons,
who runs the Milwaukee Hybrid Group.
The nonprofit Hybridfest is the first such event the organizers
know of, with people expected to attend from across the country,
Robbins said, adding that the organizers hope to make Hybridfest
an annual event, and possibly hook up with other groups to start
similar events elsewhere.
"There have been smaller meetings but nothing on the scale of
Hybridfest," Robbins said. "You would think it would be in San
Francisco before it would be in Madison. The answer is it just
takes a group of committed enthusiasts or fanatics to make it
happen and this is where we happen to be."
Powers came up with the idea for the event, and the other
organizers quickly agreed it was worth doing, Robbins said.
"What we want to do is have a single event where every possible
hybrid car is found and where regular people who don't have
hybrids can stop by and see what these things look like and talk
to hybrid owners," Robbins said.
Local auto dealers - the sponsors include Zimbrick Honda, Smart
Toyota, Gordie Boucher Lincoln Mercury and Lexus of Madison -
will be on hand offering test drives, Robbins added, "but the
neat difference is we'll have regular owners who can tell you
what it's really like to have a hybrid."
The event will be funded by the sponsors and the $25 registration
fee by the participating hybrid enthusiasts, but admission is
free for the public.
The Dane County Fair is very supportive of the event, Robbins
said.
"They are going to allow a hybrid in the midway with signage
referring to Hybridfest," he said. "We hope to draw a lot more
people by being co-located with the fair."
One interesting vehicle scheduled to appear at Hybridfest is a
General Motors EV-1. GM eventually crushed those ill-fated
electric vehicles but the automaker allowed UW-Madison to keep
one it had on the condition it removed the "innards," which UW
replaced to keep it a working electric vehicle, Robbins said.
Another expected big draw scheduled to appear is a "plug-in
Prius" - a Toyota Prius hybrid with additional batteries added in
the back storage area that give it about 40 miles of purely
electric travel before recharging is needed, Robbins said.
"That's the real future I'm excited about," he said. "It's the
equivalent of $1.10-per-gallon gas when you plug into the
electric grid."
John Dolan, a salesman at Smart Motors known as "Mr. Hybrid,"
said that while Toyota officially doesn't approve of the plug-in
Prius - the alterations void the warranty - it is working on a
next generation power train that will provide much longer
electrical operations.
Another big draw - perhaps the top draw for the average consumer
- scheduled to appear is the hybrid Toyota Camry, which is
scheduled to debut next month.
Dolan said Smart Motors, the region's top hybrid dealer, should
have its first hybrid Camrys by Memorial Day. He expects big
sales for the vehicle since it's the first hybrid mid-size sedan,
noting that the dealership already has 20 to 25 orders without a
big ad campaign.
"I'm totally convinced that once people actually see this car
it's going to really take off," he said, noting that it will
debut as gas prices are expected to be peaking with the start of
the summer driving season, "and every time we've had a spike in
fuel prices, Prius sales have gone through the roof."
The hybrid Camry will provide six-cylinder power with
four-cylinder gas mileage of about 43 miles per gallon in the
city, 37 on the highway, Dolan said.
The hybrid Camrys, which have more standard features than the
base regular Camrys, will start around $25,000, which is $2,000
to $2,500 more than a similarly equipped regular Camry, Dolan
said. That compares to the typical $3,500 to $4,000 hybrid
premium.
Soaring gas prices since last year's hurricanes already have
given a big boost to hybrid sales, Dolan said.
There were about 20,000 hybrid sales in 2002, 47,000 in 2003,
88,000 in 2004 and more than 200,000 last year. The 2005 sales
included 107,897 Prius sales.
Smart Motors' sales of all vehicles are up 18 percent this year,
with March being the dealership's best month ever as Toyota is
poised to surpass GM as the world's largest automaker.
Dolan said Smart Motors still has a wait of four to six months
from order to delivery for a Prius, although he added that sales
could slow due to tax issues.
The very complex law governing tax credits for hybrid vehicles
provides for different credits for different vehicles tied to
their performance, with the credits phasing out over 15 months
after an automaker sells 60,000 hybrids.
"That was done to protect U.S. carmakers who are either in the
infancy of hybrid development or not making hybrids at all yet,"
he said.
Toyota, which will produce 100,000 hybrids for the U.S. this
year, expects to hit the 60,000 mark by late June or early July.
The full tax credit - $3,150 for the Prius and $1,300 for the
Camry - will remain for the following quarter after 60,000 are
sold, then phase out over the ensuing four quarters, Dolan said.
"So someone ordering a Prius now may not get the full credit"
since it is based on the date it is delivered, not ordered, he
said, whereas someone ordering a Camry may get it in time to get
the full credit since the wait time at this point is expected to
be shorter.
Toyota plans to offer hybrid models of all of its vehicles by
2012, which should only help the automaker extend its dominance,
especially if gas prices keep rising, Dolan said.
"Every time you see a spike in gas prices, (hybrids) make more
sense," Dolan said.
All contents Copyright ©2006, Capital Newspapers. All rights
reserved.
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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EVLN(FGC Zenn nevs not allowed on Canadian streets)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=89948f9a-f4e1-462e-8bed-494f6cee2574&k=22563
Two-seat electric cars to be built in St. Jerome
Feel Good Cars executive Hugo Marsolais backs up a prototype Zenn
Neighbourhood Electric Vehicle in this January 2003 file photo.
Vehicles like the Zenn are allowed on public roads in all but
five states in the U.S., where about 100,000 such vehicles are
sold every year.
Photograph by : JOHN MAHONEY, GAZETTE FILE PHOTO
MIKE KING, The Gazette Published: Friday, April 14, 2006
Automobile manufacturing is about to return to the lower
Laurentians, switching from the production of gas-guzzling muscle
cars four years ago to environmentally friendly electric
vehicles.
But don't expect to see any of the battery-powered Zenn minicars
on Quebec streets - or elsewhere in Canada - any time soon.
Although the Zenn (Zero Emission No Noise) meets all federal
highway regulations, British Columbia is the only province so far
where the vehicle can be legally licensed.
The Zenn is a tiny two-seater similar to the popular Smart Car.
Feel Good Cars Corp. of Toronto has leased 40,000 square feet of
extra space in the Bauer Nike Hockey Inc. skate and helmet plant
in St. Jerome, 60 kilometres north of Montreal, to serve as the
primary production and research and development facility for the
Zenn.
"It'll take about a month to get things outfitted and ready to
go," company chief executive Ian Clifford told The Gazette by
phone.
"We chose St. Jerome because ITAQ is there."
It was at ITAQ, the Quebec Advanced Transportation Institute,
that the Zenn prototype was created. ITAQ is a government-funded
agency that is intended to be a catalyst for the development of
sustainable transportation technologies. Clifford said his firm
paid ITAQ "close to six figures" for its consulting and
engineering services.
While unable to provide even a ballpark figure on how many people
will be hired to assemble the basic and luxury models of the
Zenn, Clifford did say the plan is to produce "a couple of
thousand over the first 12 months."
He said as many as 10,000 Zenns could be made a year if there was
the demand.
However, the head of Canada's only consulting and market research
company specializing in the automotive sector doesn't see a
bright future for electric cars.
"It's a very limited market," Dennis DesRosiers, president of
DesRosiers Automotive Consultants Inc., said in a phone interview
from Richmond Hill, Ont., yesterday.
"Pure electric never caught on to a mass market."
But they have found niche markets, like huge factories in which
they are used to get around, he noted.
While acknowledging Feel Good Cars "is a very good company,"
DesRosiers suggested its customers "have to make considerable
compromises" in buying electric vehicles.
"There are too many choices available of alternative fuels to use
- gasoline, diesel, biodiesel, ethanol, propane, natural gas,
fuel cells, methanol and electric - and electric is at or near
the bottom of the list," he added. "There's little room for
electric vehicles."
Clifford said Feel Good is targeting gated communities in the
U.S. sunbelt states of Florida, Texas and Arizona, as well as
California, where residents use the cars for short-distance
commuting.
There is also now interest in the middle and northern states, he
added.
Feel Good's potential output is about one-tenth of the 100,000
low-speed vehicles sold annually south of the border, where
Zenn-like cars are allowed on public roads in all but five
states.
Although there haven't yet been any Zenns sold or ordered in
Canada, Feel Good has an order from France for 50 "host cars" -
eye-catching little vehicles that are used as rolling publicity -
and others from U.S. dealers.
The modest Feel Good operation pales in comparison with the last
auto-assembly factory that operated in the Laurentians, fewer
than 40 kilometres south of St. Jerome in Boisbriand, where
General Motors Corp. built the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac
Firebird for 10 years.
That sprawling 2.2-million-square-foot Ste. Therese plant, which
opened in 1965, was closed permanently in August 2002 after
producing almost 4.1 million vehicles - nearly 73,000 in its
final year alone.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Zenn and the art of emission-free driving
Car's specifications: Base price: $9,995 U.S.
Maximum speed: 40 kilometres an hour
Range: approximately 56 kilometres
Charging: 8-9 hours, 80-per-cent rechargeable in 4 hours
Batteries: Six 12-volt batteries
Propulsion: front-wheel drive
Passengers: Two, with plans to introduce a four-seat utility model
© The Gazette (Montreal) 2006
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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For what it's worth,
My '81 Comuta Van is equipped with a cooling blower. It's just a squirrel
cage fan mounted
in the forward battery compartment. A duct connects the blower to an
inspection collar mounted on the motor. The "collar" has a smaller collar
sticking out from the side to attach the duct to the motor.
When you need to inspect or replace the brushes, you just unscrew the
retaining screw and remove the main collar and duct from the motor. I have a
GE 12 hp motor and a Curits 1221B 400 amp controller. If I was using the old
contactor array it probably would have been hotter.
The service manual still recommends blowing the dust out of it every 3-6
months or so with low pressure air. (From a service hose)
Funny you should ask really. Lately I've sniffed something "warm" when I
arrive at the Metrorail station in the morning. I finally crawled underneath
and noticed the duct had fallen off and was gone. I hit the local Autozone
on the way home this afternoon and bought a replacement. This time I
zip-tied the sucker in place.
Luckily, although the motor was hot to the touch, I was able to keep my hand
on it indefinitely so it probably wasn't -too- hot. It's still in the 50's F
here in the mornings.
Hope this answers a few things but someone with more knowledge will probably
step in. :)
Rich A.
'81 Comuta Van
Maryland
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EVLN(EVs & nevs for Vancouver's geek central)
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informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060413.WHGLOBETECH13/TPStory/Environment
Zero-emission vehicles highlight of conference TED LATURNUS
Every couple of years, the Vancouver Trade and Convention Centre
becomes geek central. Coke-bottle eye-glasses, plastic pocket
pen-holders, slide-rules, and flood-pants abound.
Well, maybe not quite, but the Globe Foundation, which is based
in Vancouver, hosts a trade fair/symposium/conference
specifically aimed at environmentally conscious corporations and
individuals who want to change the world, and make a few bucks in
the process.
In its own words, the Globe Foundation's goal is to "ultimately
leverage environmental challenges into business opportunities."
Not your average bunch of three-piece suit corporate types, but
this year there were almost 400 exhibitors.
Scattered among the portable water filtration units, waste
management systems, micro turbine generators, bio-waste anaerobic
digesters, and, of course, government information booths, was
also what had to be the biggest collection of zero-emission
vehicles ever assembled in one place in Canada.
They were all there: electric scooters, battery-powered urban
runabouts, battery-powered skateboards, hydrogen fuel cell cars,
hybrid-powered sedans and pickup trucks -- there was even a small
fleet of Segways zipping around the place.
And people were actually allowed to drive them -- some of them,
anyway. [...]
On a much smaller -- and slower -- scale, Dynasty Electric Car
Corp., which has dealers in B.C. and Ontario, featured its range
of It Low Speed Vehicles (LSV). With a top speed of 40 km/h (as
mandated by Transport Canada), LSVs are allowed to operate on any
Canadian road where the speed limit does not exceed 60 km/h.
Essentially a golf cart with a cute body, it has a range of 50
kilometres and can be recharged in about six hours -- at an
advertised cost of about 50 cents each time.
Six lead-acid batteries provide the juice and the It has most of
the comfort features you'd expect to find. A hydrogen fuel cell
version is apparently in the works, which will give the It much
more driving range and power.
If any of these vehicles are to be sold in Canada, they'll have
to pass muster with Transport Canada, which was on hand at Globe
2006.
There are almost 160 different vehicles currently being checked
out by Ottawa -- energy efficiency, emissions performance,
safety, and advanced technologies are all under the microscope --
everything from three-wheeled electric carts to diesel sedans. It
kind of stuck out like a sore thumb, but parked in the Transport
Canada booth was a Smart forfour CDI. Not exactly a ZEV, the
Smart forfour has a high-thrift, low-emissions 1,500-cc diesel
engine and will apparently return 6.3 litres/100 km in town and
4.1 L/100 km on the highway.
For more info, visit: http://www.Globe2006.com © Copyright 2006
Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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I've always had a respect for batteries. The thing I I keep racking my brains
and for the life of me I can't see what I did wrong. Assuming I did nothing
wrong, what the bloddy hell is wrong with the E-8 that would cause that?
James
Quoting damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Sorry, I have no idea what the cause might have been. I think the
> relative
> question is "Did you gain a new respect for working around batteries?"
>
> Things can happen awfully fast. I'm sure you just joined some kind of
> club,
> I'm just not sure what it is called. I believe Bob Rice may be the
> President though :-)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like that one battery had a build up of H2 that somehow got
sparked off.
Years ago, when Mike Slominsky of Mike's Auto Care (now retired)
upgraded my Blazer EV, when he put the batteries in, a similar
occurrence happened.
The tops blew off with a part of the top of the battery cracked.
The battery and the interior headline had to be replaced.
Sounds like some hydrogen (h2) released its energy.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
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NOPE !!! not going there!!!
480 needs large air gaps in the layout ... and 1200 volt silicon.
Simply put.. the smaller chargers are not going to use 480, it's too hairy.
The first thing we do is run the 480 through a 400 lbs step down
transformer. We actually don't handle it until it's benn cut to 373 volts
DC.
This is like asking if you can use Rocket Fuel in your lawn mower.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: EV Charging station
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > Now I have 480
>
> Will it be possible to mod a PFC-20/30/50 and make it be able to use
> 480? How quick could a pack be charged then?
>
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That was my first thought but why would the battery on the opposite end of the
string blow instead of the one I just connected to. Also, I was outside, so
there should have been little/no H2 buildup. I guess there could have been some
inside the battery.
I guess the next question is should I be afraid to test this again? I have
another 6v battery I can use, it's a bit weak, but for testing should be fine.
James
Quoting bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Sounds like some hydrogen (h2) released its energy.
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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Been a while since I've posted, but been lurking
faithfully.
Came across this today:
http://thetyee.ca/News/2006/04/27/PlugInCar/
Not just about the Prius, but more about ways the
technology could play out on a larger scale -- if
sense suddenly comes into fashion, I suppose.
I hadn't paid much attention to the Escape hybrid
yet. My 50 mile/80 km commute to work and back
every day places some limits on the kind of EV I
can use. I could make it most of the way in with
a Prius Plus, except for the last killer climb to the
hilltop where my particular ivory tower stands. :)=)}
Chuck
Kamloops, BC
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Hello James,
You said the batteries were in storage for 9 months, did you have
maintainers on them storing that long. I had new batteries I bought from a
local dealer and found out that 10 of them where in storage at a warehouse
for about 9 months. They blew up the minute I applied a high ampere load on
them.
The negative plates was so sulfated that it coated them in a hard surface
that try to break lose in a high ampere load.
If you have batteries in storage that long, try to charge them with a very
low ampere for a very long time, maybe a week or two before you increase to
a full charge.
Another thing is not to have any arc producing devices near a battery. It
is best to have the batteries in a in close container isolated from any
contactors or switches with ventilation.
The batteries are ventilated during charging.
When connecting up battery links or cables, it is best to not have the load
connected up to the battery. Used a set of battery contactors that act as
safety contactors that connect the battery power to the main contactor and
controller.
If you have a on board charger, the DC output power to batteries should also
have a contactor to isolated from the battery. The safety contactors are
off while the battery charger contactors are on.
The most dangerous thing, is the layout of the batteries. Lets say you have
120 volts of batteries connected in a string. Make sure the most negative
and the most positive is at the furthest distance from each other. This
would be 20 each 6-volts batteries all in one roll.
If you made two rolls of 10 per roll, where the most negative and most
positive batteries are together, you may have arc over from these adjacent
batteries, does not matter how much you clean them. You cannot see this
arcing in sunlight, but when its dark you may see it.
After doing a normal charging, you can test this out, by taking a voltage
reading between any two adjacent batteries, by placing the leads on the
plastic, not on the post.
It is best to not to have and two adjacent batteries over 72 volts.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:52 PM
Subject: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!)
> A few weeks ago I purchased an E-8. I was told that all it needed was
> batteries, and for what I paid, I could afford if it needed any real
> work..
>
> So today I get it out of the shed and start working on it. I take a group
> of 6
> exide 6V golf cart batteries that I've had in storage for about 9 months
> and put
> them on the golf cart charger to get brought up to voltage.
>
> After about 5 hours on the charger they are up enough (IMO) to test the
> E8. I
> make sure the key switch is off on the E-8 and connect the negative lead
> of the
> E-8 to the negative terminal of my 36v exide pack with a pair of heavy
> jumper
> cables.
>
> I connect the jumpers to the E-8 positive terminal. As soon as I touch it
> to
> the positve lead of the battery pack *BANG* there was an explosion as loud
> as a
> shotgun blast. The first battery in the string (the one that the negative
> jumper cable was connected to) exploded. Oddly enough, it was the battery
> farthest from the one I had just made the connection to.
>
> Anyway it blew off it's caps and almost blew off the top of the battery.
> There
> is a 10" semicircular crack on the top. Oh yeah, I managed to get sprayed
> by
> battery acid. I was wearing safty glasses, so a quick shower and I'm
> fine, but
> What the @#$%^&* happend?
>
> Even if I got the connections backwards, with everything off, that should
> not
> have happend should it?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> James
>
>
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I dont know did u reverse polarity when charging hard 2 say but thanx for
the wake up call 4 me and hopefully others. Mike Y
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:37 PM
Subject: RE: Exploding batteries in an E-8 (yikes!)
> I've always had a respect for batteries. The thing I I keep racking my
brains
> and for the life of me I can't see what I did wrong. Assuming I did
nothing
> wrong, what the bloddy hell is wrong with the E-8 that would cause that?
>
> James
> Quoting damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > Sorry, I have no idea what the cause might have been. I think the
> > relative
> > question is "Did you gain a new respect for working around batteries?"
> >
> > Things can happen awfully fast. I'm sure you just joined some kind of
> > club,
> > I'm just not sure what it is called. I believe Bob Rice may be the
> > President though :-)
> >
> >
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I received 1 battery today to test from Texas.It is a battery claiming to put
out 1250 amps at 8 volts.I used the same tester and test I use to test
hawkers and the Inspira JCI battery as well as many different nicads.After 3
cycles
and with the battery at 90F the inital hit got to 714 amps and 7.75 volts
after 8 seconds the amps locked out at 540 at 6.21 volts. This was a battery
picked out of there stock for me to test.(There Best One)This battery was made
in
CHINA and weighs 18.1lbs.The small 13ah hawker will out perform this battery at
hi power draws.It would be a waste of money to use as a ev drag race
battery.I will continue to cycle this battery to 15 cycles and will report the
findings. Dennis Berube
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At 04:52 PM 28/04/06 -0400, James Jarrett wrote:
<snip>
I connect the jumpers to the E-8 positive terminal. As soon as I touch it to
the positve lead of the battery pack *BANG* there was an explosion as loud
as a
shotgun blast. The first battery in the string (the one that the negative
jumper cable was connected to) exploded. Oddly enough, it was the battery
farthest from the one I had just made the connection to.
Anyway it blew off it's caps and almost blew off the top of the
battery. There
is a 10" semicircular crack on the top. Oh yeah, I managed to get sprayed by
battery acid. I was wearing safty glasses, so a quick shower and I'm
fine, but
What the @#$%^&* happend?
G'day James, and all
The hydrogen in the battery blew up - the why of it you'd need to do a
"battaupsy" and see what in the battery flashed to cause it.
The only one I've had a close encounter with was years ago at my first job
- my boss had me welding and got too close to a batttery, a weld spark got
onto the battery and it sounded exactly like you described.
Regards
James Massey
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Adrian DeLeon wrote:
> Do you use a blower fan on your motor? How is it connected? Tell me
> about your "dust abatement" plumbing! I'm thinking a 4" tube running
> from the front air dam to the motor would be adequate... Perhaps a
> daily/weekly blowout with the air compressor? I do have a blower
> to install, but adapting it will be tricky and it makes more noise
> than the rest of the car!
Some of my EVs have had external blowers for motor cooling. One was an
aircraft start-generator. They are not particularly efficient, and so
make a lot of heat. I used two automotive squirrel-cage heater blower
motors to cool it. They make so much noise that the blowers were hardly
noticeable :-)
The ComutaVan had a 6.7" GE motor with no internal fan. It was cooled by
a single 12v marine bilge blower that drew about 5amps. The blower was
coupled to the motor with a short length of 3" dia. flexible rubber
hose. It was fairly quiet; no worse than a regular car's heater blower
motor on "high".
The air passages through a traction motor are fairly small and
convoluted. You need considerable air pressure to force much air through
them. Thus, you have to use a squirrel cage or centrifugal blower; a
propeller-type fan or ram air from the grille won't do it.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I had my Z car weighed today. The local sand and rock place does it for
the DMV they gave me 3 weights with front on scale, whole car on scale
and rear only on scale all weights include driver (the first area avail
for improvement)
front 1970
car 4050 yikes!
rear 2050
The 30 LB descrepency is caused by the lead onto and off scale not being
perfectly level or the fact that I drove 1/2 way, not 90 % on or off
like I should of.
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At 10:14 AM 28/04/06 -0700, Adrian wrote:
Do you use a blower fan on your motor? How is it connected?
G'day Adrian - and all
I researched this a couple of years ago, before I set into modifying my
motor. My motor has no fan, it was TENV (totaly enclosed, non-ventilated)
so outlet holes were added to the drive end plate. I made a new brush band
from a strip of zinc sealed steel sheet, and used exhaust pipe "U" bends to
put blower pipes onto the band. One "U" each side to split the blown air to
be entering behind each brush - the band has to flex open below the pipes.
I used exhaust pipe because I can weld it, if your skills lay in another
direction, another material (composite, maybe) could be used. The pipe "U"
sections I then added parts of a third "U" to bring the passengers' side
pipe across the front of the motor, and turn the drivers' side one back.
Flexible plastic ducting connects back to the blower. I made a custom
adaptor to go onto the outlet of a car dash heater blower. The blower came
out of an airconditioned Honda with lots of small pipes and I'm guessing
fairly high backpressure, bonus it was free.
I know that the use of exhaust pipe for the blower adapter is way overkill
- I have been using the blower pipe that is turned across the front of the
motor as a handle to pick it up with as I've put it in and out of the
vehicle doing trial fittings.
My motor is away now at a winding shop for new fields to be wound, when I
get it back I intend to "glaze" the inside of the motor with a motor
varnish, built up into every corner to provide a smooth air path for the
brush dust to hopefully not settle.
I haven't got it going yet, so I can't tell you what kind of performance
I'm getting from it.
Regards
James Massey
1978 Daihatsu 1300kg truck under conversion.
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
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Does anybody have a simple circuit for imitating the "shore-side" (EVSE)
pilot signal, as used by EVI and AVCON?
I need to satisfy my onboard charger's need for a AVCON pilot, letting
it know that I have only 30 amps available.
TIA and regards
Jim
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:14:59 -0700, "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Do you use a blower fan on your motor?
Yes
>How is it connected?
Via automotive-type flex hose and some custom sheet metal.
>
>NetGain recommends (requires) blowers be used on their Warp motors, but no
>mention of required CFM or air pressure, just that the carbon dust needs
>to be blown out of the motor. Looking through the EVALBUM I haven't seen
>any blowers, and there isn't one on the Scirroco in town (9" ADC running
>15+ years with 80% brush remaining).
A blowered motor will run cooler, last longer and have slightly more
power, the last effect resulting from the copper windings having a
lower resistance when cool. Copper's Tempco is somewhat high so
cooling can make a significant difference, especially when the
controller run 100% duty cycle most of the time.
Industry practice (something I'm still not comfortable with) is to
install the blower attached to where the brush inspection cover went
and blow air across the commutator and then through the motor. I
don't like the idea of blowing carbon dust through the motor but I've
been told by more than one OEM motor engineer that it is better to
blow on the commutator and brushes because they tend to liberate more
heat.
I will have to say that I've seen MANY large DC motors with ratings of
600 volts or more with black interiors from the carbon dust that were
still running fine when taken down for bearing replacement.
Because I am grossly overloading the motor on my Citi, I chose to blow
cool air on the comm and brushes like on an industrial motor. Compared
to industrial motors, we seldom ever run our motors so I figure that
if it works in industry it'll work for me. So far so good.
>
>Tell me about your "dust abatement" plumbing! I'm thinking a 4" tube
>running from the front air dam to the motor would be adequate... Perhaps a
>daily/weekly blowout with the air compressor? I do have a blower to
>install, but adapting it will be tricky and it makes more noise than the
>rest of the car!
I used a surplus BLDC Amdek (sp?) blower of the "vacuum cleaner
blower" design. It is designed for 120vac but like many SSPSs, the
first component on the input is a bridge rectifier so it runs just
fine on DC. Mine runs at reduced speed on 72 volts and would run fine
on 144 volts. It has a 0-10 volt dc speed command input. I have the
fan wired to run full speed now but I'm going to experiment with a)
taking a signal from the pot box, b) taking a signal from a shunt in
the motor loop and c) generating a control signal based on internal
motor temperature. My motor has a thermistor embedded in the field
winding so that will be easy. The fan is fairly noisy but if it only
runs when needed, no big deal.
the face of the blower where the air intake is located is flat and the
air intake is an opening about 1.5" in diameter with a cross stamped
in the metal to keep stuff out. I found a lawn mower round air
cleaner element that would fit against the face. I hold it in place
with a piece of sheet metal and some all-thread that hooks the cross.
This is an automotive-type round filter about 5" in diameter and maybe
2" thick.
The air discharges from the motor into free air, around a baffle to
keep rain water out.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
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