EV Digest 5461
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Battery interconnect challenge
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) RE: "EV" (related?) Biz Plan
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: "EV" (related?) Biz Plan
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV-related biz plan (pallet jack recharge)
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: "EV" (related?) Biz Plan
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Suitable Range Extending Alternator for Trailer Power Supply
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: "EV" (related?) Biz Plan
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Help with Lawn Mower Conversion
by Joel Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Suitable Range Extending Alternator for Trailer Power Supply
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Battery interconnect challenge
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Battery interconnect challenge
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: bulb regs and Magnechargers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: A new charger idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery interconnect challenge
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) RE: DC-DC converters
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Battery interconnect challenge
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Lightweight parts (was US Electricar on Ebay, in Glendale, AZ.)
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: 12v Battery Advise Needed
by Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Suitable Range Extending Alternator for Trailer Power Supply
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
If you use the big Battery Sentinel
(http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=212&i
dproduct=22358), you should have reasonable success. A 120 volt pack of
fully discharged Optimas should come up in about 6 to 8 hours. The smaller
ones would take twice to four times a long to charge that pack.
A note of caution: These chargers probably have a poor power factor. They
are rated for ~100 watts of charge power but you may have a hard time
getting more than 10 of them to run on a single 15 amp circuit.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
> On Sat, 6 May 2006 21:58:13 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >What would you define as a "powerful and reliable individual charger"?
> >
> >Please give me an example of such a device and how you would hook it up.
>
>
> How about this? Why build it if you can buy it?
>
>
> http://www.batterymart.com/pdf_files/deltran_shop_charger.pdf
>
>
http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=211
>
> http://www.ineedparts.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=222
>
>
>
> Matt Milliron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 1981 Jet Electrica, Ford Escort
> My daughter named it, "Pikachu".
> It's yellow and black, electric and
> contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
> http://evalbum.com/702.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm converting a Porsche 914 for a customer, and I'm in a tight
spot....literally.
Because of limited space in several areas (240V of Odyssey #PC1700 batts.),
the battery boxes need to be compact. 1/2" foam board all around, and not
much headroom. Bus bars will be used wherever possible to help in this
regard....1/8"x1". (Zilla Z1K+ 9" motor= need for generous ampacity)
I am concerned with 1/8" copper being too rigid and possibly breaking the
post seals.
Details are important here. I'm aware of the need for some 'give' to be
built into each bar. In most locations, that can be done. Others however
will be short with just a single curve, shaped somewhat like the symbol for
Ohm . How will my hawker Odysseys handle this? They will be snug in their
boxes and buss connection will be direct to their case-top level terminals.
Do any of you have insights as to the robustness of Odyssey post seals?
Any feedback is appreciated.
Richard
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anybody know if there any product or a a version of that product that runs
on 240v?
I'm willing to give these a try, its a simple (and lazy) solution for me. $1400
for a way of getting a balanced charge on 23 XCDs is not a bad price. OK, it
might not be the best solution and its slowish but its easy and cheap (unless
their is a cheaper way? That doesn't involved being an electronic's wizard.
Quoting Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> If you use the big Battery Sentinel
> (http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=212&i
> dproduct=22358), you should have reasonable success. A 120 volt pack of
> fully discharged Optimas should come up in about 6 to 8 hours. The smaller
> ones would take twice to four times a long to charge that pack.
>
> A note of caution: These chargers probably have a poor power factor. They
> are rated for ~100 watts of charge power but you may have a hard time
> getting more than 10 of them to run on a single 15 amp circuit.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 5:26 AM
> Subject: Re: RC Battery chargers instead of regulators?
>
>
> > On Sat, 6 May 2006 21:58:13 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> > >What would you define as a "powerful and reliable individual charger"?
> > >
> > >Please give me an example of such a device and how you would hook it up.
> >
> >
> > How about this? Why build it if you can buy it?
> >
> >
> > http://www.batterymart.com/pdf_files/deltran_shop_charger.pdf
> >
> >
> http://www.automotivepartsnetwork.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=211
> >
> > http://www.ineedparts.com/store/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=222
> >
> >
> >
> > Matt Milliron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 1981 Jet Electrica, Ford Escort
> > My daughter named it, "Pikachu".
> > It's yellow and black, electric and
> > contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
> > http://evalbum.com/702.html
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Cor
Just a device to extend the life of the batteries used in the hand
truck... If it can be re-charged in-transit (between stops to deliver
kegs and pick up empties) to get the daily discharge reduced by using
the "host" vehicle (aka "beer truck") to recharge the battery as the
truck travels between stops, rather than waiting until the end of day
where the discharge may be 50% before the battery is plugged again for
an overnight recharge. The label on the hand truck mentions "flooded"
batteries, so I'm pretty sure they're just using Pba.
No free lunch (or beer) I know, I just imagine the diesel truck spends
lots of time in city traffic idling. So maybe it'd be a tradeoff
between extra diesel fuel used to recharge the battery vs the longer
life of the Pba before it needs to be replaced? Just trying in theory
to reduce the daily discharges from 50% to only 20% perhaps, and
consider what that would do to save battery life. Might help drive
down the cost of beer also <wink>
Thanks
Lock
Toronto
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am not sure that I understand which problem that you are
> trying to solve here.
> Please explain the problem in more detail (as the current
> situation seems to work to satisfaction) and describe what
> you want to add/change, how much that would cost and what
> you try to save by adding/changing this function.
> This may help you to judge if the solution has indeed a
> problem that someone is trying to get rid of as well and
> is willing to pay for.
> Success,
> Cor van de Water
> -----Original Message-----
> Lock Hughes
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 9:56 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: "EV" (related?) Biz Plan
> I was talking to the folks delivering beer to a restaurant this am.
> Pallets of kegs plus pallets of cases.
> They were using a 24V hand pallet, very much like this one:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/Yale-Self-Propelled-Pallet-Jack-6000-lb-Forklift_W0QQite
> mZ7616028341QQcategoryZ97185QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> or tinyURL here:
> http://tinyurl.com/p4z38
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--- Begin Message ---
> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Maybe make the generator a motor/generator and hybridize
> the truck that starts and stops alot anyway using the
> battery in the pallet jack??
Wow. Hehe.. Slow down Jeff. I was hoping an onboard charger would be
a "no-brainer" for the folks that otherwise just keep buying those
diseasal trucks. Their *warehouse* is state-of-the-art at least. Funny
how a facility (warehouse) full of electric vehicles is
"state-of-the-art" eh? ;)
Tks
Lock
Toronto
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--- Begin Message ---
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Lock n Co,
> Onboard pallet-jack recharging, certainly would be a small niche
> market, but those trucks already have stout cable running rearward to
> power the liftgate, which IIRC, is hot only when the ignition is on,
> to keep the house battery from being drawn down.
> -Jay www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
Jay. Tks for pointing that out. Yup, the delivery guys had one of
their newer trucks that have a powered liftgate. Whether the
"long-lines" are hydraulic tubes or electric cables I'm not sure. I'm
just guessing that there were hydraulics in the mix. A small niche?
Beer delivery trucks in downtown Toronto??? <grin>
The (older) guys said that all their newer trucks now have the
powered liftgate w/hand pallet truck aboard, and that the older trucks
that lack same are driven by the younger guys (as "meat" powered.)
Tks again
Lock
Toronto
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--- Begin Message ---
Tks Bob
I think you are right about the tradeoff w/air quality. Unfortunately,
this is Canada, and still stone-age about this. Short-term, the Beer
Co.would only see the product as a money-saver... if that is what it
would work out as (extended battery life vs extra diseasal fuel costs
to generate recharge current for the big battery.)
These trucks spend so much time idling and in stop-and-go. All rather
pathetic.
Tks again
Lock
Toronto
--- Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> First up, the "Big Joe" batteries, if I recall, were
> Iron Chloride, not lead... Perhaps Yale uses
> different chemistry, though.
> The main issue is that CA is a _huge_ trucking market,
> and has the worst air quality. The grocery store I
> worked for would never think of hauling the Big Joes
> in the back of their trucks, b/c their weight would
> pull down MPG. On the return trips, they have bales
> of cardboard, empty pallets, and in some cases,
> overstock or other. The stores just keep the pallet
> movers in the back room for off-loading the truck when
> it gets there. The point here, is "How many companies
> are carrying their pallet-loader in the back of the
> truck?" I'll grant that some extra ballast in the
> truck would improve traction on the trip home...
> The next issue, is why would they want an
> additional electrical load on the
> generator/alternator, if it meant increased emissions.
>
> Calstart has regular posts on the hybrid and other
> systems that Caterpillar and Cummins are working on to
> improve mileage and decrease emissions.
> Re-reading it, this looks like a slam on the idea,
> but it's just one person's experience and thoughts.
> Take it for what it's worth.
> Sincerely,
>
> --- Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was talking to the folks delivering beer to a
> > restaurant this am.
> > Pallets of kegs plus pallets of cases.
> >
> > They were using a 24V hand pallet, very much like
> > this one:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/Yale-Self-Propelled-Pallet-Jack-6000-lb-Forklift_W0QQitemZ7616028341QQcategoryZ97185QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> >
> > or tinyURL here:
> > http://tinyurl.com/p4z38
> >
> > The operators didn't know which size floodie they
> > were using, but the
> > choices per the nameplate said options are 300lb or
> > 500lb batt. (I think it was)
> > Point is, they rely on a dial of "idiot lights" to
> > gauge remaining
> > charge, and of course it depends on how much they
> > use it in the day as
> > to the state of charge at the end of the day...
> > Commonly the battery (per lights) is 1/2 empty by
> > the end of the day,
> > then is plugged in back at the warehouse at night.
> > So here's the plan:
> > Develop and market a charger that runs off the
> > diseasal truck engine,
> > and plug the battery into the truck between stops?
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--- Begin Message ---
On 5/7/06, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
David wrote:
> 10kW is needed... I have suitable Diesel engines but don't know of
> a suitable alternator. The plan is to run the engine with speed
> control of the Diesel in response to battery Volts & load. The
> only suitable machine I think is a PM 3 ph alternator rated at 10kW
> 120V line to line 3000RPM approx.
A PM AC alternator (or PM DC generator) can be the most efficient, but
they are optimized to run at one particular power level. Since it is at
full field all the time, it has full magnetic losses, even when
delivering minimal power. For example, 90% efficiecy at 10kw, but only
50% at 1kw.
A PM field also gives you no control over output voltage vs. rpm. You'll
have to keep the engine running at the full 3000 rpm even when you only
want 1kw output.
In a series hybrid application, I think these drawbacks can be
avoided. For example, you can start the engine when the battery SOC
is below 50%, and run it at full power for as long as required, and
then shut it down again. This way, the PM generator and the engine
will only be running at their most efficient points. You don't need
to do anything clever, just set the governer to give the maximum
voltage that you want (absorb voltage for example), and limit the
injector rack so that the maximum current rating of the generator is
respected.
10kw PM alternators are kind of rare. Your best bet for a used one is
from a generator with a dead ICE. They won't be built to be particularly
efficient; 80% would be doing good.
I've just acquired a surplus 6kW industrial PM DC servo motor which I
might use for something like this.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/8/06, Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Develop and market a charger that runs off the diseasal truck engine,
and plug the battery into the truck between stops?
You'll just be burning diesel instead of using the grid to charge the
battery. At first glance, a bad idea, but if it lets them greatly
reduce the battery size and weight that they have to carry, perhaps it
would cancel out.
If you are talking about charging the batteries from the truck's 24V
alternator (or an additional one), you could rig up a control so that
it is only activated when the diesel is off-throttle or braking but in
gear (a couple of microswitches can do this) thus giving a kind of
regenerative braking and saving a small amount of brake wear, and
wouldn't use additional fuel.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Need advice (as usual). I have access to a free
Snapper 8hp rider, engine in the rear. The engine is
shot but the entire chassis is in great shape. Looks
like a great candidate for an electric conversion.
I would like to be able to mow up to a 1/2 acre, my
yard is basically flat.
Need suggestions for voltage, a motor(hp, etc),
charger, controller(if needed), etc
BTW, I have both US125s and BB600s waiting for some
action so I could use either. Thinking about playing
with the BB600s as Chris Zack did.
Thanks and interested to hear what the group things.
Thanks
Joel
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--- Begin Message ---
As Lee pointed out earlier a BLDC motor gets very poor
efficiency when lightly loaded. This company has an
interesting solution to this problem. The graphic on
the main page shows exactly how this concept works,
http://www.variabletorquemotors.com/index.html
The rotor slides in and out of the stator creating
a variable stack length and hence optimizing
efficiency for a wide range of loads.
Rod
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 5/7/06, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > David wrote:
> > > 10kW is needed... I have suitable Diesel engines
> but don't know of
> > > a suitable alternator. The plan is to run the
> engine with speed
> > > control of the Diesel in response to battery
> Volts & load. The
> > > only suitable machine I think is a PM 3 ph
> alternator rated at 10kW
> > > 120V line to line 3000RPM approx.
> >
> > A PM AC alternator (or PM DC generator) can be the
> most efficient, but
> > they are optimized to run at one particular power
> level. Since it is at
> > full field all the time, it has full magnetic
> losses, even when
> > delivering minimal power. For example, 90%
> efficiecy at 10kw, but only
> > 50% at 1kw.
> >
> > A PM field also gives you no control over output
> voltage vs. rpm. You'll
> > have to keep the engine running at the full 3000
> rpm even when you only
> > want 1kw output.
>
> In a series hybrid application, I think these
> drawbacks can be
> avoided. For example, you can start the engine when
> the battery SOC
> is below 50%, and run it at full power for as long
> as required, and
> then shut it down again. This way, the PM generator
> and the engine
> will only be running at their most efficient points.
> You don't need
> to do anything clever, just set the governer to give
> the maximum
> voltage that you want (absorb voltage for example),
> and limit the
> injector rack so that the maximum current rating of
> the generator is
> respected.
>
> > 10kw PM alternators are kind of rare. Your best
> bet for a used one is
> > from a generator with a dead ICE. They won't be
> built to be particularly
> > efficient; 80% would be doing good.
>
> I've just acquired a surplus 6kW industrial PM DC
> servo motor which I
> might use for something like this.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out the short braided connections I made for my batteries - same
scenario as you describe.
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatteryConnections.html
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Rau
Sent: May 9, 2006 12:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery interconnect challenge
I'm converting a Porsche 914 for a customer, and I'm in a tight
spot....literally.
Because of limited space in several areas (240V of Odyssey #PC1700 batts.),
the battery boxes need to be compact. 1/2" foam board all around, and not
much headroom. Bus bars will be used wherever possible to help in this
regard....1/8"x1". (Zilla Z1K+ 9" motor= need for generous ampacity)
I am concerned with 1/8" copper being too rigid and possibly breaking the
post seals.
Details are important here. I'm aware of the need for some 'give' to be
built into each bar. In most locations, that can be done. Others however
will be short with just a single curve, shaped somewhat like the symbol for
Ohm . How will my hawker Odysseys handle this? They will be snug in their
boxes and buss connection will be direct to their case-top level terminals.
Do any of you have insights as to the robustness of Odyssey post seals?
Any feedback is appreciated.
Richard
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
Not a dumb question at all. I think we actually discussed the
possibility of doing this on the show but scrapped the idea due to
space and time constraints. The chargers are very light and bring back
a completely discharged pack to full in 1 hr., so providing you had
sufficient grid power it would really take the TIME out of recharge
time. I may be missing something in my equation here though. I can't
remember if we discussed whether or not the packs needed to be isolated
during charging. MADMAN was our charge guru perhaps he has some input
here.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 8 May 2006 19:09:43 -0700
Subject: Re: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
Dumb question time again.
I was thinking about the holders for the v28s, and the problem of
charging them, and I was wondering if it would be possible to install
the chargers in the car, do a little rewiring, and use them as battery
holders, and maybe wire the chargers together too?
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are
"a little bit different now and veterans aren't a priority,"
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
All,
Despite our best efforts I received word today that the V28 MG Chevy
will > not be available for the High Voltage Nationals.
Though no fault of Milwaukee's John Zick who continues to push to get
us > back on the track, the logistics of a large corp. and the previous
> obligations for the car were too much. We are doubling our efforts to
see > this machine on the track in Hagerstown in June. We were hoping
to at > least be there nice, big, and red in the White Zombie's rear
view but the > racing season is still young....
Shawn "One Short" Lawless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Richard,
You might look at making braided interconnects. They worked well for us when
we were running Cyclons. Look here is a step by step description:
http://www.proev.com/WHistPgs/Hist0011.htm
We also made longer cables for the Kokam's. The ends are different but it
gives an idea of ways to make them. They handle 600 amps without getting
warm.
http://www.proev.com/WHistPgs/Hist0038.htm
Hope this helps,
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
I'm converting a Porsche 914 for a customer, and I'm in a tight
spot....literally.
Because of limited space in several areas (240V of Odyssey #PC1700
batts.),
the battery boxes need to be compact. 1/2" foam board all around, and not
much headroom. Bus bars will be used wherever possible to help in this
regard....1/8"x1". (Zilla Z1K+ 9" motor= need for generous ampacity)
I am concerned with 1/8" copper being too rigid and possibly breaking the
post seals.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> first drive after installing regs... just 6ah worth... charge at 6a
> to 340v, then kick down to 1.0a to 365v... an hour later, was down
> to the trickle charge rate, with 4.5ah to go. Voltage was only 330v
> at 1.0a rate.
>
> So I looked at the temp sensors and went "oooh"... regs and temp
> sensors are bolted to the copper interconnects between batteries.
> two temp sensors were 32c, the rest were 27c. This caused the temp
> compensation... to kick the charger to the next step early.
>
> Apparently what I am seeing is the regs kicking in. When they kick
> in on a battery they start dissipating heat into the copper strips
> and of course the battery terminals thru the lugs. The temp sensors
> pick this up and sound the alarm by raising the apparent voltage.
>
> What is really interesting is that I am seeing the regs kick in at
> very different times. Which indicates that the battery pack *is* out
> of balance, and without the regs some of the batteries *are* getting
> overcharged.
Sounds right. I would expect this behavior to diminish as the batteries
get back in balance over successive charge cycles. These regulators only
shunt 0.5 amps, so they can correct imbalance at the rate of about 0.5ah
per hour. If the batteries are (say) 5ah out of balance, you'll need 10
hours of charging to correct it. You're only going to do 1-2 hours of
overcharge per charge cycle, so it will take 5-10 charge cycles.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I have been planning a new way of charging...
Sounds pretty complicated for the small benefit of charging faster.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard,
I had the same issue for a few of my interconnects. I needed short but
flexible 2/0 interconnects. I ended up using some 'tinned copper flat
braid' from Aplha Wire. Their product number 1241 has about the same
cross-section as 2/0 cable, and when folded in half length-wise it just
barely fits into 2/0 crimp lugs. I was able to get a 4' or 5' sample
from them, which was enough to do the few tight interconnects in my pack.
Here's the URL: http://www.alphawire.com/pages/159.cfm
Ralph
Richard Rau writes:
>
> I'm converting a Porsche 914 for a customer, and I'm in a tight
> spot....literally.
> Because of limited space in several areas (240V of Odyssey #PC1700 batts.),
> the battery boxes need to be compact. 1/2" foam board all around, and not
> much headroom. Bus bars will be used wherever possible to help in this
> regard....1/8"x1". (Zilla Z1K+ 9" motor= need for generous ampacity)
> I am concerned with 1/8" copper being too rigid and possibly breaking the
> post seals.
> Details are important here. I'm aware of the need for some 'give' to be
> built into each bar. In most locations, that can be done. Others however
> will be short with just a single curve, shaped somewhat like the symbol for
> Ohm . How will my hawker Odysseys handle this? They will be snug in their
> boxes and buss connection will be direct to their case-top level terminals.
> Do any of you have insights as to the robustness of Odyssey post seals?
> Any feedback is appreciated.
> Richard
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 5/8/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I usually try to stay away from trucks like that. Seems that quite a few
people have 'worked' on it and, now that it is broken, they sell it.
mm.
> Looks like it's in decent shape, even though the
> seller is a bit clueless: I count 26 batteries (312V)
> which are more than likely bad at this moment and no
> way it is ever going to do 80 MPH (redline is 72) or
> 70 miles per charge on 70 Ah of batteries.
> But for the price it is a very interesting deal,
> including built-in Emeter and 3 chargers, two of
> which Magnechargers!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is wrong with my carbon fiber hood ???
See
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/742
Robert Salem
Quoting Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Looks like it's in decent shape, even though the
> seller is a bit clueless: I count 26 batteries (312V)
> which are more than likely bad at this moment and no
> way it is ever going to do 80 MPH (redline is 72) or
> 70 miles per charge on 70 Ah of batteries.
> But for the price it is a very interesting deal,
> including built-in Emeter and 3 chargers, two of
> which Magnechargers!
>
> Beats me why someone would shave doorhandles on a truck,
> maybe on a racing 2-seater it would make a difference,
> but on a truck?
> What's next? Carbon-fiber hood?
> Kind of putting deep dish rims on your garden tractor
> or rust-bucket-daily-driver-beater, but I digress.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ4638014037QQrdZ1
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My DC-DC usually works fine and delivers enough current for the tasks.
However, now in the summer with the ventilation running at 'full speed
ahead', it comes to its limits. I added a second DC-DC and wired it
exlusively to the ventilation fan (common ground though). Seems to work
just fine. Running the fan now doesn't lower the blinker frequency and/or
the vacuum motor's speed.
Hmm .. do I smell smoke somewhere ... ? ;)
Michaela
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--- Begin Message ---
Richard Rau wrote:
> Bus bars... 1/8"x1". I am concerned with 1/8" copper being too rigid
> and possibly breaking the post seals.
If you don't have room to provide for some "flexing" in your busbars,
there are several options.
You can use several thinner copper sheets, stacked up (like four 0.030"
sheets). They will be considerably more flexible -- like a sheet version
of stranded wire. Weld or solder the ends together, so all of them have
the same resistance -- don't just stack them and depend on bolt
pressure.
You can use thinner but wider sheet, to get the same cross-section
without the thickness; like a 1/16" x 2" bar.
You can use braided busbars. These are flat stranded wires, woven
together so they don't need insulation to hold them together. Again, you
have to solder or otherwise fuse the strands together at the ends so all
strands have the same resistance or they won't share the current
equally.
You can use "flat cable" busbars. These have a large number of insulated
or bare wires laid side-by-side, with some kind of bonding or overall
insulation to hold them together. For this applicatin, you'd bond them
all together at the ends. For instance, ten #14 wires laid side-by-side
and cold-welded together at the ends.
> Do any of you have insights as to the robustness of Odyssey post seals?
The only way you'll find out is the "hard way" -- Try it, and see what
they look like in a few years. But I have to say, I have never seen an
EV battery box that didn't have at least *some* battery posts leak
during their life, no matter how strain-free the interconnects. The more
strain the wires put on them, the more "leakers" you get.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I'm planning on using a glass fibre hood, trunk, and wings for mine.
If the records of my car are anything to go by they're not that old
but have rusted clean through.
:)
Well-made non metal panels are just fine but only as long as they're
made well. If they're made badly they can weight more than the metal
ones...
You're also taking into account the non-rust deal. Swings and
roundabouts though, since I have seen some really dodgy non-metal
panels!
Nikki
On May 9, 2006, at 2:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is wrong with my carbon fiber hood ???
See
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/742
Robert Salem
Quoting Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Looks like it's in decent shape, even though the
seller is a bit clueless: I count 26 batteries (312V)
which are more than likely bad at this moment and no
way it is ever going to do 80 MPH (redline is 72) or
70 miles per charge on 70 Ah of batteries.
But for the price it is a very interesting deal,
including built-in Emeter and 3 chargers, two of
which Magnechargers!
Beats me why someone would shave doorhandles on a truck,
maybe on a racing 2-seater it would make a difference,
but on a truck?
What's next? Carbon-fiber hood?
Kind of putting deep dish rims on your garden tractor
or rust-bucket-daily-driver-beater, but I digress.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/
_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ4638014037QQrdZ1
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many thanks to all who answered and advised...Much to
consider...You're a good group...
Wayne
At 09:33 AM 5/8/2006, you wrote:
Wayne,
Not sure if this fits your needs, but I can share my experience.
I have now 2500 miles on my truck using 26 110Ah 12V batteries
which cost me $2200 so this should be well within your budget,
even when you would run a double string of them.
I have a single string of 312V (AC drive) and I sure like the
60 miles range that this offers (when driving carefully).
Weight of the battery is 71 lbs, so 10 will be 710 lbs which
means that less than 30% of the vehicle weight is battery.
Dependent on your skill and circumstances to drive carefully
your electricity consumption will be somewhere between 200 and 250
Wh per mile for a 'sedan' conversion.
With 120V and 250Wh per mile, your range would be around 30 miles
max in warm weather (60Ah available from the 110 Ah at 20h) so
the single string of 10 batteries it not sufficient.
Either find larger batteries or make a double string of them or
increase the battery voltage to get more energy stored.
Double strings will certainly give you enough range if you can keep
them well balanced, it should fit your budget but the weight of
1420 lbs may be way over the limit as you have more than 40% of
the car weight in batteries. See if your car has been modified by
others with heavier (aftermarket) or high performance parts, that
could give you a clue if this route is even feasible.
One example is the BMW 3-series has always had an "M" variant, which
means that the little car is a little over-designed to take the
extra loads that the M-performance puts on the chassis.
That makes me confident that this is a good candidate for a
conversion - others have done this too.
BTW I am using UB121100 which is a sealed AGM battery that is used
for wheel chairs and rugged standby power applications:
http://www.universalpowergroup.com/specs/D5751.pdf
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Wayne
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:30 PM
To: EV
Subject: 12v Battery Advise Needed
All,
As I progress at a maddeningly glacial pace towards my EV conversion,
it has become overly apparent that weight, among many other factors,
is a serious consideration, not only in moving mass but weight
limitations on the donor vehicle and, ultimately, range.
The donor vehicle will be between 2000 and 2500 (pre-de-ICing)
lbs. My needs are for a 30 mile (winter-time) to 40 mile (fair
weather) range. I'm aiming for a 120v pack. 20 six volt batteries
are simply too heavy (for the donor vehicle) for my purposes, thus my
desire for 12v batteries.
I had been leaning strongly towards Optima Yellow Tops or
Orbital/Exide XCD's...The Yellow Tops appeal strongly to me owing to
the ability to orient the batteries with no regard to spillage.
However, I have been warned that Optimas and Orbitals are poor
choices for EV's due to a limited per-volt range capacity and overall
short-life. Also, I have been told that these batteries require
individual charge regulators and are easily damaged by improper
charging/discharging.
Regardless the final battery configuration, sealed or capped, I will
be using some form of balancing regulation (specific methodology yet
to be determined) and will be constantly monitoring the pack charge
so as to not exceed 80% discharge so the last listed issues are of
lesser concern to me. It is the supposed limited range and short
life that concerns me the most.
Soooooo, what's the recommended 12v battery? Surely there's
something out there that will do the job without being so
prohibitively expensive as to abandon the project (my budget for
batteries is capped at $2000.00).
Many thanks for your considered respons(es),
Wayne White
If those of us who "can", "do" then those of us who "can't" won't
suffer as much from the high prices of excess.
If those of us who "can", "do" then those of us who "can't" won't
suffer as much from the high prices of excess.
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Shawn
It just occurred to me that if the chargers/battery holders were integrated
into the vehicle, it would save having to build racks for the batteries, and
perhaps save charging time, as you said. You would still need to the bus
bars, of course (For light shows, he he) and add a power source for all the
chargers.
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are
"a little bit different now and veterans aren't a priority,"
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
Dave,
Not a dumb question at all. I think we actually discussed the possibility
of doing this on the show but scrapped the idea due to space and time
constraints. The chargers are very light and bring back a completely
discharged pack to full in 1 hr., so providing you had sufficient grid
power it would really take the TIME out of recharge time. I may be
missing something in my equation here though. I can't remember if we
discussed whether or not the packs needed to be isolated during charging.
MADMAN was our charge guru perhaps he has some input here.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 8 May 2006 19:09:43 -0700
Subject: Re: No V28 Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
Dumb question time again.
I was thinking about the holders for the v28s, and the problem of charging
them, and I was wondering if it would be possible to install the chargers
in the car, do a little rewiring, and use them as battery holders, and
maybe wire the chargers together too?
David C Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are "a little bit different now and
veterans aren't a priority,"
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:
<[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 6:54 PM Subject: No V28
Chevy at High Voltage Nationals
All, Despite our best efforts I received word today that the V28 MG Chevy
will > not be available for the High Voltage Nationals.
Though no fault of Milwaukee's John Zick who continues to push to get
us > back on the track, the logistics of a large corp. and the previous
> obligations for the car were too much. We are doubling our efforts to
see > this machine on the track in Hagerstown in June. We were hoping to
at > least be there nice, big, and red in the White Zombie's rear view but
the > racing season is still young....
Shawn "One Short" Lawless
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> As Lee pointed out earlier a BLDC motor gets very poor
> efficiency when lightly loaded. This company has an
> interesting solution to this problem. The graphic on
> the main page shows exactly how this concept works,
> http://www.variabletorquemotors.com/index.html
> The rotor slides in and out of the stator creating
> a variable stack length and hence optimizing
> efficiency for a wide range of loads.
> Rod
>
That's a pretty slick idea! I may be mistaken, but the specs on the
ultracapacitors they use don't seem as good as a small pack of Hawkers
(other than cycle-life). Wonder how hard it would be to use their
setup as a basis for a plug-in hybrid.
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