EV Digest 5536
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) On board charger wanted
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: converter question
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Help Push an Electric into May's car of the Month!
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Prius air-conditioning
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Prius air-conditioning
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Help Push an Electric into May's car of the Month!
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) European smart car ($30k from ZAP)
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Flooded battery isolation
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Flooded battery isolation
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Battery recommendations for 48V?
by lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) NEDRA Power of DC - Places to stay
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Prius AC inverter info
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Flooded battery isolation
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Flooded battery isolation
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battery recommendations for 48V?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: White Zombie and Father Time Machine racing at PIR this coming Friday
night, June 2nd
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Flooded battery isolation
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: White Zombie and Father Time Machine racing at PIR this coming Friday
night, June 2nd
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: White Zombie and Father Time Machine racing at PIR this coming
Friday night, June 2nd
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE Current Eliminator racing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) OT: Need help identifiying LED sign
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Prius AC inverter info
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Flooded battery isolation
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Prius AC inverter info
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: OT: Need help identifiying LED sign
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: battery suggestions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: 外国語 was Re: Reminder: Mind your Letter
Capitalization
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Mk3 Regs
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Flooded battery isolation
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Contact Kent about an on board charger for his Electravan. That's
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Kent. Not me.
Thanks all.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd get an Iota of some sort. I'm using one on my 144vdc Aspire. LR
----- Original Message -----
From: "john" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 6:43 PM
Subject: converter question
I think my sevcon converter has died. It was installed back in 1997.
What I need to know, is it worth it to have it repaired or should I just
buy a new one?? I have a 1986 Dodge ram truck with 144 volts. Oh Also
got my 1976 VW bug running this week YEp E! 96 volts.
John with TEVA2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Please, take a moment and vote today. Only two more days left.
John, this might help things along:
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Honestly, waste of time. The pumping efficiency of Peltiers is far less
than that of a compressor system. That potential has been well studied
and they just can't do a big system effectively. They're nifty for
little fridges much too small and cheap for a compressor and nice thick
insulation, and you can live with terrible pumping efficiency because
the pumping volume is low.
If you look up the ability to move watts from the cold to hot side,
you'll notice the pumping ability drops dramatically as the temp
differential at the ceramic end plates increases. So when you heat up
the heat sink with a 100W DCin + whatever BTUs you pumped, you've got a
heatsink that is going to get really hot. It's not hard to keep the
device below the meltdown point, but the efficiency is shot to hell.
And the same prob exists on the cold sink. If the heatsink gets to 55F
in an 85F ambient temp, that's still pretty bad for the Peltier's work
function.
Additionally, Peltiers suffer greatly from the inability to separate the
hot and cold side significantly. Hard to keep the heat from bleeding
from the hot side back to the cold when it's only 1/8" apart, and you
need HUGE volumes of air for these devices. You could always water-cool
the hot side, still, it won't get around the efficiency issue.
Danny
Peter Shabino wrote:
Has anyone taken a look at Peltier thermoelectric devices recently?
They are getting cheep on surplus lately (due to all the colman
coolers that use them).
Once I get a little farther down the road I am going to play around
with them on the car. I already have a stack of them (liquid air is
fun.... :) but the bigger question is what will their efficency is
like Vs a commpressor system. 80W of cooling takes about 100W of
electricty just not sure how much cooling a compressor pumps out Vs
its input power.
The Fiero is going to have a weight problem as it is so every pound I
shave off helps.
Later,
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just did such an efficiency comparison. It takes 10 to 13 times more
energy for the Peltier device to remove the same amount of heat compared to
a regular refrigerant based heat pump.
On 5/29/06, Peter Shabino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Has anyone taken a look at Peltier thermoelectric devices recently? They
are
getting cheep on surplus lately (due to all the colman coolers that use
them).
Once I get a little farther down the road I am going to play around with
them on the car. I already have a stack of them (liquid air is fun.... :)
but the bigger question is what will their efficency is like Vs a
commpressor system. 80W of cooling takes about 100W of electricty just not
sure how much cooling a compressor pumps out Vs its input power.
The Fiero is going to have a weight problem as it is so every pound I
shave
off helps.
Later,
Peter
>From: "Jim Seibert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Prius air-conditioning
>Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 17:18:00 -0500
>
>Good observation. On page 16, it reads " the inverter creates 3-phase AC
to
>power the motors in the engine compartment. Sets of 3 power cables are
>routed from the inverter to each high voltage motor (electric motor,
>electric generator, and A/C compressor)". That tends to indicate that
the
>A/C motor is a 3-phase AC motor.
>
>Reading through the Denso web site (company that makes the Prius
>compressor), it says it's a brushless DC motor. Guess that's why I
thought
>it ran on 201 V DC.
>
>Shucks, back to a standard auto compressor running off a pulley on the
tail
>shaft. This won't be too hard to implement, just gotta figure out how to
>mount it and tension the belt...
>
>Regards, Jim
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 12:22 AM
>Subject: Re: Prius air-conditioning
>
>
> > I reviewed the doc and noticed that the A/C motor is
> > indicated as AC-motor, so it does NOT run straight off
> > the DC pack, unless it has a DC/AC converter built-in!
> >
> > Cor (in Bay St Louis, MS)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Death to All
> > Spammers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: [email protected]
> > Cc:
> > Subject: Re: Prius air-conditioning
> > Sent: 5/28/2006 9:32 PM
> > Importance: Normal
> >
> > > I'm sorry I don't have the URL, but if you google on Prius Air
> > Conditioning
> > > you should be able to find it like I did. I read it in the last
> > couple of
> > > weeks, and it did have www.toyota in the URL, so I trusted the
> > information.
> > >
> >
> > http://techinfo.toyota.com/public/main/2ndprius.pdf
> >
> > Cool stuff!
> >
>
--
Edward Ang
AIR Lab
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> John, this might help things along:
>
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
As we're approaching the end of May,
how can we forget about Bill Dube'?
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Dragster-Motorcycle-Timeslip-7621.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: European smart car
Interesting article about a U. of Md. professor who managed to import an
energy-efficient European "smart car," with a photo of the car.
C.
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=800848
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
You say the pack is connected, I assume that means it's connected to the
motor/controller? That's probably where the leakage is occuring.
Try disconnecting the batter pack from the controller and see if you still
have leakage.
No, I disconnected the pack from the controller at the pack side. So the
controller, the wiring to controller, and the shunts are out of the
picture.
I'm amazed there can be leakage through two layers of plastic to a
painted frame. What does it take to isolate a flooded battery; pot it? :-)
Unless you have a really low resistance short from the pack to frame, I
don't think you'd even feel 75 volts.
It might have been 200; I was working on the pack, had one hand on the
frame, brushed another battery. I was sweating, so had good conductive
potential.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
There is a 3/4 meg resistor connecting mid pack to ground. Is that
what you are seeing?
I don't think so, unless the resistor is inside the switch or something.
Any idea where it is?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aloha,
Being the proud, new owner of my first EV (a 48V golf
cart), I'm excited to replace the aged and abused
vpack of (6) 8V Trojans with something better, if
possible. The 8V Trojans are around 170 AH bats i
believe.
I'm looking for maximum range, and pack life with deep
discharges below the optimal 20% DOD.
As 8V options are limited, any combo of 6 or 12 V to
get the 48 will do.
There will also be 300 watts of solar on the roof
supplementing the pack during daytime use, with less
than optimal orientation of course, unless parked.
Mostly thinking of using the panels for an extended
range trip where it could be parked in the sun during
the peak sun hours to recharge as much as possible
before the trip home.
I do have the off board 120V AC to 48V DC charger that
came with it as well. It is kind of bulky to try and
mount it on board...does any one know of a similar,
but smaller charger that could be installed on the
cart, so i could take advantage of friendly outlets on
the way?
Back to the battery question....price is a
consideration, I'm thinking more AGM vs GEL or
Floodies, not Lion, since this is my first experience
with an EV pack. Not looking for cheapest option
either, just best for this application.
On my own, I'm leaning towards the Optimas, but i
could be way off, as I haven't been able to keep up
with reading all the posts for the last couple of
months. I'm only 100 digests in the hole. :o)
Big Mahalo in advance for any responses,
Lee
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian Murtha did some investigating for rooms that will be available
for the June 4 weekend.
Most hotels are fully booked for Saturday because of the "Western
Maryland Blues Fest" and also a Little League event. However, several
rooms are available at the Super 8 Motel in Hagerstown and the
Quality Inn across the street. These hotels are within walking
distance to Ledo's Pizza where we will be having our after race
dinner on Sunday.
Super 8 Motel - 1220 Dual Highway Hagerstown, MD 21740 - (301)
739-5800. $60.92 for Sat and $55.37 for Sunday.
Quality Inn - 1101 Dual Highway, Hagerstown, MD 21740 - (301)
733-2700. $70 for Sat and $60 for Sunday.
More updates as they become available . . .
Chip Gribben
Power of DC Race Organizer
http://www.powerofdc.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cell 240-687-1678
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/121813.pdf
on page 12 it states that there is a seperate inverter for the AC, the
desno aununcment says there is an integrated inverter in the compressor.
If this is a permenent magnet brushless motor, maybe a simple six-step
control would be suffient.
I am in need of AC on my car, but I have put batteries where the
condensor was so it is gonna take some work. I was wondering about a
couple of enhancements.
I have heard that the clutches take a lot of 12V power and was
wondering if a hot gas bypass valve would be better.
I would remove the belt for winter or have an otherwise mechanical
disconnect and then cycle the gas valve during the season.
Would an AC system work with excess charge and an accumulator if we
went back to an expansion valve.
IE brakeing during summer activates AC compressor and pumps into
accumulator
braking in excess of accumulator's capacity causes bypass valve to
open
System runs off accumulator while stopped at light
While cruising, compressor always turns, but gas bypass loads and
unloads it.
Peltiers are out, they are very ineffient. but has anyone looked into
magnetic refridgeration? http://physorg.com/news64851465.html
This has been around for a while and is not pseudo science, it just
wasn't practical for the temperature range we needed until recently.
Although cooling in a car has been suggested as a ring of this material
that moves thru a permenent magnetic field and has a working fluid that
transfers the heat from the cabin then to a radiator, i think if we just
used 2 blocks of the material and solenoid valves to swap, one block in
regen one in absorbtion (electromagnetic)we might be able to make a home
brew version. Anyone know where to get the material(gadolinium)
http://www.ameslab.gov/final/News/2001rel/01magneticrefrig.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Chris,
Check to see if your battery charger chassis and input plug is grounded to
the frame. It is best to install the battery charger in a non-conductive
enclosure and the input plug is also isolated.
Only the a metal battery charger enclosure is AC grounded.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 9:40 PM
Subject: Flooded battery isolation
> Ok, so after weeks I finally got the BB600 battery pack installed and
> connected in the S10. Now I have an isolation question:
>
> I checked voltage from the pack to the frame and I see 200+ volts. When
> I switch to amp view and check again it looks like I have a .6 ma ground
> fault. This is through two layers of plastic and POR15 paint in the bed.
>
> It's enough to feel, which to me is bad. I was wondering if it would be
> an idea to tie the pack to the frame with some high value resistors to
> bleed off this 1ma leak. That way there will be a better path than say
> me if I am ever working on the pack and forget to switch it off.
>
> Currently the pack is structured as follows: There are two sides, each
> side contains 152 volts of batteries. I have a 3 phase disconnect switch
> between the packs wired such that when I throw the switch each pack is
> split in half, and the pack itself is split in two. Thus there is no
> more than 75 volts potential. Is this safe?
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the pack is disconnected from the charger and from the controller, then
using your voltmeter you should be able to
find out exactly where the leak is.
Where did you connect the test leads? Do you have access to all of the cells
while the leak is present?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 11:40 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Flooded battery isolation
>
> Ok, so after weeks I finally got the BB600 battery pack installed and
> connected in the S10. Now I have an isolation question:
>
> I checked voltage from the pack to the frame and I see 200+ volts. When I
> switch to amp view and check again it looks like I have a .6 ma ground
> fault. This is through two layers of plastic and POR15 paint in the bed.
>
> It's enough to feel, which to me is bad. I was wondering if it would be an
> idea to tie the pack to the frame with some high value resistors to bleed
> off this 1ma leak. That way there will be a better path than say me if I am
> ever working on the pack and forget to switch it off.
>
> Currently the pack is structured as follows: There are two sides, each side
> contains 152 volts of batteries. I have a 3 phase disconnect switch between
> the packs wired such that when I throw the switch each pack is split in
> half, and the pack itself is split in two. Thus there is no more than 75
> volts potential. Is this safe?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
lee parrish wrote:
> Being the proud, new owner of my first EV (a 48V golf cart), I'm
> excited to replace the aged and abused vpack of (6) 8V Trojans with
> something better, if possible... I'm looking for maximum range, and
> pack life with deep discharges below the optimal 20% DOD.
For range and life (and assuming low cost is also important), your best
bet is to use 6v batteries. I'd suggest the Trojan T-145 or USB
equivalent. If you can add two more batteries to get back to 48v, then
speed should be the same. But range will be considerably increased, as
the T-145 is 240ah compared to the 8v
170ah.
> There will also be 300 watts of solar on the roof
> supplementing the pack during daytime use, with less
> than optimal orientation of course, unless parked.
That might actually work well on such a small vehicle.
Another thing that would help a lot is to get rid of the usual golf cart
turf tires, which have high rolling resistance. Look for some skinny
radials. New rims will be needed as well.
> I do have the off board 120V AC to 48V DC charger that
> came with it as well. It is kind of bulky to try and
> mount it on board...does any one know of a similar,
> but smaller charger that could be installed on the
> cart, so i could take advantage of friendly outlets on
> the way?
The stock one is probably a 50 lbs Lester or equivalent. Yes, there are
lots of smaller lighter alternative. Reliable and fairly fast, but heavy
and noisy.
If you stay with inexpensive chargers, you could use four 12v 15amp
automotive chargers. Or, there are some multi-battery chargers in the
same price range; they are smaller and lighter than four 12v, but don't
produce as much charging current.
If you can afford more, there are switchmode chargers that are much
smaller and lighter.
And if it's just an "emergency" charger, you can hack together a "bad
boy" charger. Very small and cheap, but not isolated and rather tricky
and dangerous to use.
> I'm thinking more AGM vs GEL or Floodies
AGMs cost a lot more, and will give you less range, not more. They are
optimized for fast discharges at high current -- the opposite of how
they get used in a golf cart. Don't worry about AGMs until you can drive
so fast that you discharge your pack in less than an hour.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
>
> The weather for late May in Portland has been very weird. It seems the
> anti-EV vortex is still following me :-( This entire holiday weekend, it
> has been almost winter-like, with highs barely cracking 50, when it's
> normally in the high 70's in late May. It's been windy and raining like
> crazy, too.
>
> See Ya....John Wayland
>
Uhhh Wayland... it's back.. they are calling for Rain from Thursday on...
We are not in the clear yet.
Though today is one of the prettiest this year so far... That means Lawn for
me...After I ship 3 chargers that is...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Humphrey wrote:
> If the pack is disconnected from the charger and from the controller,
> then using your voltmeter you should be able to find out exactly where
> the leak is.
If there is *one* leakage path to ground, you can put one voltmeter lead
on the car chassis, and poke each battery terminal in turn. The polarity
of the voltage tells you which direction to move to find the leak.
- terminals that are more positive than the point of the leak will have
a
positive voltage to chassis
- the terminal with the leak to chassis will have zero volts to chassis
- terminals that are more negative than the point of the leak will have
a
negative voltage to chassis
But often, there is more than one leak. In this case, you get situations
wher (for example) the + terminal of a 12v battery is +6v above chassis,
and its - terminal is -6v below chassis. This happens if there are *two*
leaks to chassis, one somewhere in the positive side of the string and
the other in the negative side.
With dirty batteries, I often find I can clip one voltmeter wire to
chassis, and move the probe wire around on the *insulation* surrounding
each terminal. When the probe hits the dirty path, you'll read a
voltage! You can actually follow the path with the probe. It can lead
you on a devious path across the tops of batteries, down the sides, and
across the bottom to the point where it touches chassis. When you're on
the path, just a wipe with a rag will have a drastic effect on the
voltage.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 30, 2006, at 8:31 AM, Rich Rudman wrote:
Uhhh Wayland... it's back.. they are calling for Rain from Thursday
on...
We are not in the clear yet.
Though today is one of the prettiest this year so far... That means
Lawn for
me...After I ship 3 chargers that is...
I hear that! My beach buggy is sitting apart in the garage. All the new
brackets and other miscellaneous detailing have been painted and are
dry. Its time to reassemble, but the lawn... why does it have to grow?
I'll be pushing the electric mower.
Paul G.
P.S. - what follows 2 days of rain the the PNW?
Monday
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Get an electric mower that drives itself!
http://www.friendlyrobotics.com/robomow/mowers/
Danny
Paul G. wrote:
Its time to reassemble, but the lawn... why does it have to grow?
I'll be pushing the electric mower.
Paul G.
P.S. - what follows 2 days of rain the the PNW?
Monday
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We will be at Speedworld This wensday,friday and sat. nites from 6pm through
close.8-10 passs per night.This past weekend was spent putting in 30 new
hawkers(16ah odyssey)We took out 30 12ah Odyssey batteries that have 472
qt.mi.runs
on them.The used batteries will be recycled into 1 an 2 cylinder welding
machines.I wish to thank Sunbelt Battery(Jesse James)for getting the hawkers to
me
quickly and at a decent price.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to take up bandwith, but I thought someone on this list might be
able to point me in the right direction.
A parent at the school where I work just donated two LED scrolling
marquis type signs. They work, but I can't for the life of me identify
the maker so I can figure out how to control them.
They are each about a meter long by about 10 centimeters high. They are
made up of 9, 7x7 matrix leds. They work when powered by 12v dc center
positive wall wart and have 5 model numbers written on the back. They
are:
AMK3088 AML3088
AMK4160 AML4160
AMK1092
The last one AMK1092 has a check in the box beside it. That model
number is hand written in on both devices and the handwriting is poor.
The number COULD be AMK1072
At the far left end on the back there is a rj45 jack, presumably for a
serial cable of some form.
Ideally, I'd like to identify the maker of this and see if I can find
any of the specs/software to program it. The person who gave them to me
has nothing.
Thanks in advance,
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 30 May 2006 06:19:30 -0700, Jeff Shanab
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/121813.pdf
>
>on page 12 it states that there is a seperate inverter for the AC, the
>desno aununcment says there is an integrated inverter in the compressor.
>
>If this is a permenent magnet brushless motor, maybe a simple six-step
>control would be suffient.
>
>I am in need of AC on my car, but I have put batteries where the
>condensor was so it is gonna take some work. I was wondering about a
>couple of enhancements.
> I have heard that the clutches take a lot of 12V power and was
>wondering if a hot gas bypass valve would be better.
No. A typical AC clutch draws less than 2 amps, usually less than one
amp. Even on bypass, an operating compressor consumes considerable
power.
> I would remove the belt for winter or have an otherwise mechanical
>disconnect and then cycle the gas valve during the season.
>
> Would an AC system work with excess charge and an accumulator if we
>went back to an expansion valve.
> IE brakeing during summer activates AC compressor and pumps into
>accumulator
> braking in excess of accumulator's capacity causes bypass valve to
>open
> System runs off accumulator while stopped at light
> While cruising, compressor always turns, but gas bypass loads and
>unloads it.
You'd need a suction accumulator to do what you want if I understand
it correctly. The main problem will be that there will be
insufficient pumping capacity to both cool and pump down the
accumulator. In fact, I think you'll find that a compressor driven
from the traction motor to be quite unsatisfactory. The time when you
need high capacity the most - stop-and-go traffic - is the time when
the traction motor is turning the least.
Unless you want to go with the BLDC type hermetic compressor, the only
reasonable solution I see is to drive a conventional compressor with a
DC motor. Surplus PM motors are cheaply available. Do I recall your
pack as being 144 volts? Ninety through 240vdc small HP motors are as
common as dirt because so many are used in industry. Two-three HP
would be a good place to start looking.
>
> Peltiers are out, they are very ineffient. but has anyone looked into
>magnetic refridgeration? http://physorg.com/news64851465.html
What's to look at? For us end-users, this is little more than a
curiosity.
>This has been around for a while and is not pseudo science, it just
>wasn't practical for the temperature range we needed until recently.
>Although cooling in a car has been suggested as a ring of this material
>that moves thru a permenent magnetic field and has a working fluid that
>transfers the heat from the cabin then to a radiator, i think if we just
>used 2 blocks of the material and solenoid valves to swap, one block in
>regen one in absorbtion (electromagnetic)we might be able to make a home
>brew version. Anyone know where to get the material(gadolinium)
Sure. How much money you got? Gadolinium makes gold and platinum
look like scrap metals.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That'a an Andy question for sure.
Mike
> Any idea where it is?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Long term I was going to run my AC off the traction motor as well. How may
people have a seperate motor driving the compressor? Also has any one found
a small hermetic compressor that runs on DC already on the market? (thinking
maybe out of a RV fridge).
Later,
Wire
From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Prius AC inverter info
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 16:48:25 -0400
On Tue, 30 May 2006 06:19:30 -0700, Jeff Shanab
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/121813.pdf
>
>on page 12 it states that there is a seperate inverter for the AC, the
>desno aununcment says there is an integrated inverter in the compressor.
>
>If this is a permenent magnet brushless motor, maybe a simple six-step
>control would be suffient.
>
>I am in need of AC on my car, but I have put batteries where the
>condensor was so it is gonna take some work. I was wondering about a
>couple of enhancements.
> I have heard that the clutches take a lot of 12V power and was
>wondering if a hot gas bypass valve would be better.
No. A typical AC clutch draws less than 2 amps, usually less than one
amp. Even on bypass, an operating compressor consumes considerable
power.
> I would remove the belt for winter or have an otherwise mechanical
>disconnect and then cycle the gas valve during the season.
>
> Would an AC system work with excess charge and an accumulator if we
>went back to an expansion valve.
> IE brakeing during summer activates AC compressor and pumps into
>accumulator
> braking in excess of accumulator's capacity causes bypass valve to
>open
> System runs off accumulator while stopped at light
> While cruising, compressor always turns, but gas bypass loads and
>unloads it.
You'd need a suction accumulator to do what you want if I understand
it correctly. The main problem will be that there will be
insufficient pumping capacity to both cool and pump down the
accumulator. In fact, I think you'll find that a compressor driven
from the traction motor to be quite unsatisfactory. The time when you
need high capacity the most - stop-and-go traffic - is the time when
the traction motor is turning the least.
Unless you want to go with the BLDC type hermetic compressor, the only
reasonable solution I see is to drive a conventional compressor with a
DC motor. Surplus PM motors are cheaply available. Do I recall your
pack as being 144 volts? Ninety through 240vdc small HP motors are as
common as dirt because so many are used in industry. Two-three HP
would be a good place to start looking.
>
> Peltiers are out, they are very ineffient. but has anyone looked into
>magnetic refridgeration? http://physorg.com/news64851465.html
What's to look at? For us end-users, this is little more than a
curiosity.
>This has been around for a while and is not pseudo science, it just
>wasn't practical for the temperature range we needed until recently.
>Although cooling in a car has been suggested as a ring of this material
>that moves thru a permenent magnetic field and has a working fluid that
>transfers the heat from the cabin then to a radiator, i think if we just
>used 2 blocks of the material and solenoid valves to swap, one block in
>regen one in absorbtion (electromagnetic)we might be able to make a home
>brew version. Anyone know where to get the material(gadolinium)
Sure. How much money you got? Gadolinium makes gold and platinum
look like scrap metals.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Quite of few of the early LED signs where made in small batches by now
defunct companys. Can you send me a picture of the front and back of the
sign I may be able to identify it. More than likely you will have to crack
it open and trace back the lines from the RJ45. There were 2 basic styles of
"remotes" for these signs RS232 and pushbutton. A RS232 sign you can hook
back to a pc through the apropreate adaptors and program it from there. A
pushbutton remote just has a switch matrix accross the lines that allow you
to program the sign. Without a manual it will be dificult to figure it out
but not impossible.
Later,
Wire
From: James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: OT: Need help identifiying LED sign
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 15:52:51 -0400
Sorry to take up bandwith, but I thought someone on this list might be
able to point me in the right direction.
A parent at the school where I work just donated two LED scrolling
marquis type signs. They work, but I can't for the life of me identify
the maker so I can figure out how to control them.
They are each about a meter long by about 10 centimeters high. They are
made up of 9, 7x7 matrix leds. They work when powered by 12v dc center
positive wall wart and have 5 model numbers written on the back. They
are:
AMK3088 AML3088
AMK4160 AML4160
AMK1092
The last one AMK1092 has a check in the box beside it. That model
number is hand written in on both devices and the handwriting is poor.
The number COULD be AMK1072
At the far left end on the back there is a rj45 jack, presumably for a
serial cable of some form.
Ideally, I'd like to identify the maker of this and see if I can find
any of the specs/software to program it. The person who gave them to me
has nothing.
Thanks in advance,
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just another word on Lee's Z-Regs -- I made up a set of 13 for my truck using
6.8 zeners on both ends. They work fine, but they don't even start to glow
until about 14.6V, and since I've got AGMs (UB121100's) I want to keep my
charging voltage below 15 volts. So I decided to get a bunch of 6.2 volt
zeners, to lower the activation point to where I'll get more regulation during
my regular charging process. After reading the 6 volt design I got the bright
idea to use all 26 of my 6.8's, add a 6.2 on both ends, (with the 6.2 on one
end wired in series with the 6.8 at the other) and another bulb in the middle.
This should give me up to a full amp of shunted charge per battery, with the
regulation starting at around 14 volts. Also the redundancy will help
reliability, and a broken regulator should be easy to spot. Finding room for
the lugs would be a problem, so I think I'm gonna just flatten some copper pipe
with the 6.2 zener wires in the smashed end and drill them out
for the lugs. I figure that will drive the material cost up into the $2-3 per
battery range, with the biggest hit coming from the light bulbs.
Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I got it...
Lee wrote later -"It's just a backup system. Someday the bulb may burn out or
get broken.The resistor means you don't lose *all* regulation."
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush"
To:
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Lee's regs in action
Chris,
You added some film resistors on to the balancers. What was your reason for
doing so?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
Chris wrote -
>> Where did you buy the 5 watt zinors ?
>>
>
> Mouser. Here is a list of the parts I bought:
> 660-MF1/2DLT52R10R0F MF1/2DLT52R10R0F KOA Speer 1/2Watt Metal
> Film Resistors
> 10ohms 1% 100PPM 60 $0.090 $5.40 60 Shipped
> 4/24/2006
> 27718023
>
> Chris
---------------------------------
Feel free to call! Free PC-to-PC calls. Low rates on PC-to-Phone. Get Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You replied to my message (Subject: "Taperlock dilemma") with a reply
titled "Battery suggestions." Since this was a non sequitur, I asked
what batteries had to do with taperlocks. A quick check of the email
headers shows that your message references mine, as well as the
"Taperlock dilemma" thread.
My Message:
--------------------------
>Dave Cover wrote:
>> Suppose you had a brand new shiny taperlock hub. You waited a long
time to get it and were anxious
>> to install your motor to build your EV. But there was a problem. The
vendor drilled the holes
>> wrong so you cannot bolt your clutch to the hub.
>
>If this is _truly_ the vendor's mistake, take it back. It's
tantamount to your vendor providing you with the wrong part. You
shouldn't compromise you conversion because of someone else's screw-up.
--------------------------
Michael Perry wrote:
And I'm also confused. Where did Taper Locks come in? The subject is battery
suggestions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: battery suggestions
I'm confused -- what does this have to do with taper locks?
Michael Perry wrote:
I just pulled the McNair batts from my new Chinese (McCullough)
lawnmower.
Interesting that they were DOA, w/ apparently no warranty.
I could use some advice as to what to put back in. These are
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure, but:
1) You won't get many replies.
2) Babelfish does an awful job with most languages, including Japanese.
3) Your content-type should be text/html rather than text/plain if you
want your Hiragana rendered properly. Even then, many email clients
won't have the font.
Death to All Spammers wrote:
I guess most of us would survive a French posting.....
(If need be, consult Altavista's Babelfish)
Cor.
しかし私達は日本語を扱うでしようか。
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
Listers...
Thursday night we had a successful test of the proto type MK3 Rudman
regulators.
Rich,
I've read a few comments about problems with regs (dunno if they were
Rudman or what) failing badly when placed across full pack voltage
because of an open battery / interconnect. Is there some sort of
crowbar or other overvoltage protection circuit? IOW, what happens when
you slap 180VDC across it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kind of tough actually. I did the trick of "look for 0 voltage" and
found a battery, but when I disconnect it the ground fault "moves" to
somewhere else in the pack.
Totally weird. I wonder if I am chasing a capacitance shadow or
something. Is .6ma something to care about?
Chris
Tim Humphrey wrote:
If the pack is disconnected from the charger and from the controller, then
using your voltmeter you should be able to
find out exactly where the leak is.
Where did you connect the test leads? Do you have access to all of the cells
while the leak is present?
--- End Message ---
