EV Digest 5604
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: need Curtis 1221R manual
by "Markus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re:
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) newb gratitude
by Tony Furr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Jim Husted did something to my motor
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Used and Surplus Motors
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: isolated Charger
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) looking for an EV car builder
by mike phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: found:94 chevy s10 us electricar truck
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: batteries in S-10 box
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) FW: Excel data for 0-60mph
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Used and Surplus Motors
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Looking for EV project web log recommendations
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) AC motors, was: Re: Used and Surplus Motors
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roderick,
thanks for the reply and offer to scan. I will see if Doug or Marcus can
get me a copy.
Markus
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roderick Wilde
> Sent: Donnerstag, 29. Juni 2006 02:20
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: need Curtis 1221R manual
>
>
> I have the papers around here somewhere in a file. I will
> have to dig them
> out and get them scanned for you. It may take a few days.
>
> Roderick
>
> Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
> Your Online EV Superstore
> www.evparts.com
> 1-360-385-7082
> Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
> PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
> 108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Markus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:16 PM
> Subject: need Curtis 1221R manual
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Does anybody have a copy of a Curtis 1221R manual (differs from the
> > 1221B/C)
> > - Curtis doesn't have one anymore?
> >
> > Here the whole story:
> >
> > I've just finally bought my first on-road EV
> > (I've owned two elec-traks for a couple of years).
> >
> > Its a Tavria (similar to Skoda), a sowjet car body that was
> converted to
> > electric in Germany in 1996.
> >
> > It features a series wound (about 9") DC motor (12kw cont.)
> with a Curtis
> > 1221R controller and 900 pounds of lead. (The whole car weighs about
> > 2500lbs). Plus a 25A charger and a Diesel cabin heater. I
> managed to get
> > some used gel batteries, fixed a few minor issues with the dc-dc
> > converters
> > and the aux battery and took it for a spin. It works and I
> got a nice EV
> > grin.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I found that regenerative breaking doesn't
> work and the
> > standard breaks are really minimalistic (no break booster).
> I see that I
> > have a switch or pot with 3 wires mounted to the break
> peddle and also see
> > that there is a large contactor what looks to be a 2PDT
> mounted right with
> > the controller. As I cannot reverse the motor I assume this
> is to reverse
> > the field current for regen. It doesn't work though. Hence
> I tried to find
> > a
> > manual for the Curtis 1221R. After some looking around all
> I saw was an
> > old
> > mail on this list from 1992 about somebody else also
> looking for such a
> > manual/schematic. I called curtis but they claim they don't
> have anything
> > anymore about this old controller.
> >
> > Does anybody happen to have some documentation. Preferably
> in electronic
> > form as I am now located in Europe.
> >
> > Thanks a bunch
> >
> > Markus
> >
> > 1996 Tavria 84V road-EV
> > 1973 Two GE Elec-Trak E20
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release
> Date: 6/27/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release
> Date: 6/27/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the traction pack and the auxiliary pack are isolated from chassis
ground, you may do it.
If the traction pack and the accessory battery are tied together at chassis
ground, you will need an isolation transformer to do it.
You should earth the chassis when charging.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:27 AM
Hi All,
Can you use a PFC Charger (non-isolated) with a EV that has a common ground
between the traction pack and the Auxillary pack.
If so, do you have to ground the PFC charger case (Ac Earth) to the car
chassis (the car is AC earthed while charging).
On the other hand.
Cheers
_________________________________________________________________
New year, new job – there's more than 100,00 jobs at SEEK
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=752315885&_r=Jan05_tagline&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
greetings all-
i've been reading the list for a while and want to thank everyone for
the excellent discussions that run through this list. the communal
knowledge exchanged here is priceless and makes the learning curve
for new EVers like myself much easier to climb.
but this mail is a more direct thank you to roderick wilde and father
time. i am forever in their gratitude for helping me start my EV
journey. what roderick didn't mention about their recent trip to LA
for the WKTEC premiere, was that in all of the frenzy of EV
promotion, partying and the like, he and FT managed to find the time
and space in the trailer to haul an extra EV back to seattle for me.
the stars were in alignment when roderick and i first met at the
seattle film fest showing of WKTEC. i was lamenting the cost of
transporting a converted lancia i was trying to buy and he was
bumming on the fuel cost of getting to the premiere. the rest just
fell into place.
FT made it back to seattle on monday night and we met at a nearby
texaco for the drop-off. i don't recall the last time i was that
excited (actually it was my daughter's birth 2 years ago, but this
was a close second). driving it the few miles back to the house i
could feel the huge EV grin stretched across my face.
i don't think the deal would have worked if it hadn't been for
roderick and FT reaching out to help a person they'd never met. and i
could not have asked for a more expert team to help me out. thanks
again.
so add one more EV to the northwest tally (sorry california). no
doubt i'll have lots questions in the future
tony furr
btw- this car was not in the evalbum, so i'll add it as soon as i get
the chance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know it's off topic, but man I'm blind here... somebody answer me, off
the list is fine.
I have an FJC vac pump, the kind used for air conditioning. The oil in
it is foamy and probably used up. Where can I find vacuum pump oil in
town? North side of Austin, Tx?
Thanks,
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is Gone Postal a Curbwatt? I just got done working on one and they are all
aluminium. You'd think they wouldn't weigh much more than the Rabbit that
they used all the suspension parts from. Sure can carry a lot of weight.
It was set up for at least 96v of golfcart batteries. I wonder what GP'd do
with a lighter pack that could put out the amps. I'd be one nuts machine.
Already is. LR>>>>>>>>>>
> Yo Dude!!
> Wayland's Ricer Tin Can don't weigh 5000 lbs !!!
>
> The Gone Postal with 40 40 lbs batteries....needs all the help it can get,
> and 5 gears and series parallel are all we can find without buying a
couple
> of Ford 9 inch rear ends.
>
> So... Direct drive is not a good idea, We need the fronts to get us
moving..
> then we let the S/P rears suck some watts, and warp 1 comes by in a hurry.
>
> God Rod don't break it!!! please!
>
> Madman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Jim Husted did something to my motor
>
>
> > Maybe the answer is direct drive. I don't see Wayland burnin up no
> > clutches.......LR..........
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:49 PM
> > Subject: Jim Husted did something to my motor
> >
> >
> > > I recently had Jim Husted do a com for me and an experimental brush
> > > rigging set up. I have only had the motor back in "Gone Postal" for a
> very
> > > short time. It hasn't even been to the track yet but today I had to
take
> > the
> > > motor back out. The only person I can think of to blame for my
troubles
> is
> > > Jim Husted. Everything was fine until he worked on my motor.
> > > We are running a Centerforce clutch and pressure plate with a
Corrado
> > G60
> > > flywheel. We have never had any trouble with it whatsoever. We have
> raced
> > > it, we have run front drive only and rear drive only. We have even
> > submitted
> > > it to the Madman's foot.and still no problems. Now when I nail it up
to
> > 1800
> > > amps on the front motor the clutch whirs right up without much
> > acceleration.
> > > We pulled the motor and sure enough, the smell was not the brushes but
> the
> > > clutch material burning. We checked and the clutch linkage is fine.
Yep,
> > > it's all Jim's fault for giving me too much torque :-) We have found a
> > > solution. Now to get the big bucks for a full on racing pressure plate
> and
> > a
> > > three puck disc from Clutch Net, www.clutchnet.com
> > >
> > > Roderick Wilde
> > > "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> > > www.suckamps.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date:
6/27/2006
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The specs on this motor say: "Inverter duty: No", so it is not made to take
the less clean waveforms and variable frequency from an inverter/motor speed
controller running off DC - it is suitable for operation off AC mains power
50/60 Hz, fixed speed, I figure.
Nice price, though....
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Used and Surplus Motors
Yeah, I saw that in the archives, anyone tried one, certainly the right
price. So it seems not much if anything available on the used/surplus
large DC motor market.
Here is something, on sale only $465 :)
http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=68&categoryID=54
Now just need to figure out how to generate three-phase 230vac..
Now i'm thinking let's do this real simple, and use a 460v DC battery
pack. With 4v lithiums, thats only 115 cells. Seems to defy the point of
using AC vs DC, but my gosh, $3000 AC controllers?
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
is it safe to do this:
My car has a common ground. if i was to charge using a non-isolated charger
like the PFC, can i jsut disconnect the common earth wire through the use of
a relay. So that the automotive relay just connects the earth wire of the
traction pack to the car chassis with the key ignition being turned on.
And then have the car chassis earthed while charging.
Cheers
What you all think?
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 22:09:21 -0700
If the traction pack and the auxiliary pack are isolated from chassis
ground, you may do it.
If the traction pack and the accessory battery are tied together at chassis
ground, you will need an isolation transformer to do it.
You should earth the chassis when charging.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:27 AM
Hi All,
Can you use a PFC Charger (non-isolated) with a EV that has a common ground
between the traction pack and the Auxillary pack.
If so, do you have to ground the PFC charger case (Ac Earth) to the car
chassis (the car is AC earthed while charging).
On the other hand.
Cheers
_________________________________________________________________
New year, new job there's more than 100,00 jobs at SEEK
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=752315885&_r=Jan05_tagline&_m=EXT
_________________________________________________________________
Research and compare new cars side by side at carpoint.com.au
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F833884&_t=54321&_r=hotmail_endtext&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is anyone on this list for hire to convert/build a vehicle, start to finish?
I'm looking to set up a relationship and find out pricing for someone to
build possibly multiple EV vehicles for a project I'm working on.
Thanks,
Mike Phillips
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris-
Glad to hear the results of your testing. I've been thinking about it
some more, and I think the fault I had that required a power-cycle reset
on the 200-series(?) Vicors I was using (some years ago now - da'
memory's kinda' rusty) was an over-current shutdown, rather than an
under-voltage shutdown. What is the model/part number of the Vicor(s)
you set up for John?
cheers,
Andrew
Chris Brune wrote:
Hi Andrew,
I bench tested the module with a 600V power supply. It did not require
power cycling to come back on after going below the under-voltage point.
According to the data sheet it looks like the module has an auto-restart
feature. It checks every 2-20ms and restarts when the "fault" has been
cleared.
I don't have any other experience with Vicor modules so I can't comment on
if other modules do this. I ran the unit both below the under-voltage and
over-voltage and did not reset power in between, it always restarted on its
own.
Regards,
Chris Brune
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Letton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi John-
The new DC-DC sounds great.
Have you actually confirmed that the Vicor will "come back to life" when
the voltage rises after the drag run? I'm fairly certain that the
Vicors I've used required that you cycle the input power off and on to
reset them after they shut themselves down. Something to check on...
Wish I could be there to see ya' run on Friday.
cheers,
Andrew
John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
The weather stilll looks perfect for this Friday night's attempt at the
11s, with the daytime temp. upped from 80 to 85 now. Tim reminded me he
had made his annual plans to take off with his buddies to party the long
4th of July weekend, starting 6-30 and blasting on through the 4th on
Tuesday, in Central Oregon. Soooo...the old man himself will be driving
the Zombie! Yup, I'm back in the saddle for this weekend's runs, and I'm
pumped about taking Tim's record from him :-)
My friend Chris Brune surprised me with a DC-DC he put together for
White Zombie.
[snip]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where r you guys from and do you have some of these trucks.wheres a good
place to get imfo on it do you know.. mike y
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: found:94 chevy s10 us electricar truck
mike young wrote:
Hi everybody, I just located and will be picking up a 94 s10 very clean
body top to bottom and underneath and has been sitting for a couple yrs
so will need work but it looks complete.It says hughes vector on the
controller under the hood.I am just wondering if it is interesting to
anybody on the list.Email with phone # and i can call you or email if u
want to make a deal.I think it will be around $3000.It will be the end of
the wk before I pick it up.the thing has like 6000 miles on the odometer
and it looks it. I live in upstate New York. I would love to keep it but
I have enough ev's now to outfit the family with 4 solectria force cars
plus bob rices parts solectria car I am thankful for.As for the 94 belt
drive solectria force I just got the gearbox back from the machine shop
after they installed all new gears and bearings of their design.It
happily runs and drives again. let me know what you guys think about this
Us electricar s10 pickup. Thanks Mike young
Yep, US Electricar truck. Just to let people know, we have been making
serious strides towards getting these things fully operational. Between
Mike, Andy, and myself we can fix a lot of the problems that have popped
up.
Just don't rip out the controller and motor; it's nicer than you think.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Didn't know that BB600 came in a 6v version....
His question was "is the box' big enought to hold 144V worth of batterys ( 6
Volt)",
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: batteries in S-10 box
> Rush wrote:
>> No it is not...
> Depends. I have 252 BB600 cells in mine. Light, fast, and haven't been
> able to drop the voltage to 302 volts even pulling 200+ amps.
>
> Whee!
> Chris
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thats what I suspect. None of this data is from external meters. Its all from
the Zilla data stream. So I set the motor voltage
limit down to 80V. The truck went as expected only got up to 35mph, real
slowly. So I know the controller knows the voltage is
80V, but the data stream indicates 122V. Also, while 140V seems reasonable for
a sagged battery voltage I would expect the motor
to be that as well at 100% duty cycle. At 100% D.C., 140V Battery, the motor
voltage indicates 214V. The 53% exageration of Motor
voltage seems to be consistent. So I have an e-mail to Ot asking the question
if there could be a scaling factor off in the code.
I hear ya on the shift point. With clutch slipping though more power isn't
what I need. Its easier for me to baby it in 2nd than
3rd. Once the RPM is high enough it gets easier in 3rd. Its not fast that way
and hopefully I can get the new clutch in this
weekend.
Hopefully my change in e-mail addresses doesn't mess up the list.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Joe Smalley
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:38 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Excel data for 0-60mph
>
>
> There is a calibration issue. Battery power is 100 kW at 3500 RPM but motor
> power is 150 kW. The error tracks throughout the data with motor power being
> 50% more than the battery power. I don't believe you have an overunity
> controller. Put another meter on the battery to see if the indicated current
> matches the recorded output. When you know the scale factor, you can apply
> it to the recorded data to reconcile the results.
>
> You are shifting too late... Try shifting between 3000 and 3500 RPM... That
> should give you about 20% more power.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:40 PM
> Subject: FW: Excel data for 0-60mph
>
>
> > one more time without me wrapping the text on Send...
> > After this if it don't work, I tired :-)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike & Paula Willmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 10:19 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Excel data for 0-60mph
> >
> >
> > Excel Data that was created by the FasTrack software.
> > The FasTrack Screen shot is pretty spiffy. If you can't run it I put a
> screen dump of a whimpy 0-60 mph run at
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
> > Here Goes.... (oh if this text wraps make the window wider, its fixed
> space columns from the FasTrack Excel conversion)
> >
> > Seconds Pot RPM Mot AmpsCur Lim Duty Cyc Bat V Mot V Deg. F
> Bat Amps Status Codes
> > 0 -8.6 100 5 1000 0 194.7 0 99.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 0.1 5.4 0 5 1000 0 194.7 0 99.1
> 0 0 OMFS
> > 0.2 60.2 0 5 1000 0 194.7 0 99.1
> 0 30 OMFS
> > 0.3 71 0 235 1000 3.1 194.7 7 99.1
> 7.4 30 OMFS
> > 0.4 72 100 260 1000 3.1 194.7 10.5 99.1
> 8.2 27 OMFS
> > 0.5 84.9 100 275 1000 2.5 194.7 7 99.1
> 6.9 30 OMFS
> > 0.6 100 100 430 1000 6.3 192.9 19.3 99.1
> 27 30 OMFS
> > 0.7 100 100 510 1000 6.3 192.9 21 99.1
> 32.1 27 OMFS
> > 0.8 100 100 525 1000 6.3 192.9 17.5 99.1
> 33 30 OMFS
> > 0.9 100 100 725 1000 13.2 187.7 33.3 99.1
> 95.8 30 OMFS
> > 1 100 200 755 1000 9.4 189.4 29.8 99.1
> 71.2 27 OMFS
> > 1.1 100 300 820 1000 13.8 185.9 33.3 99.1
> 113.5 30 OMFS
> > 1.2 100 300 990 1000 24.5 180.7 54.4 99.1
> 242.8 27 OMFS
> > 1.3 100 500 985 1000 28.3 170.1 64.9 99.1
> 278.8 27 OMFS
> > 1.4 100 900 995 1000 37.1 164.9 84.2 99.1
> 369.2 27 OMFS
> > 1.5 100 900 1010 1000 44.7 164.9 103.5 99.1
> 451 27 OMFS
> > 1.6 100 1200 855 1000 49.1 171.9 122.8 99.1
> 419.4 27 OMFS
> > 1.7 100 1600 1005 1000 57.9 143.8 133.3 99.1
> 581.5 27 OMFS
> > 1.8 100 1600 1005 1000 66 140.3 149.1 99.1
> 663.7 27 OMFS
> > 1.9 100 2000 920 1000 69.2 161.4 154.3 99.1
> 636.5 27 OMFS
> > 2 100 2200 1010 1000 73 142.1 163.1 99.1
> 736.9 27 OMFS
> > 2.1 100 2200 995 1000 84.9 129.8 170.1 99.1
> 844.8 27 OMFS
> > 2.2 100 2300 975 1000 88.1 131.5 182.4 99.1
> 858.5 27 OMFS
> > 2.3 100 2600 1000 1000 93.1 129.8 191.2 99.1
> 930.8 27 OMFS
> > 2.4 100 2600 965 1000 100 131.5 199.9 99.1
> 965 30 OMFS
> > 2.5 100 2700 925 1000 100 133.3 203.5 99.1
> 925 30 OMFS
> > 2.6 100 3000 900 1000 100 135.1 205.2 99.1
> 900 30 OMFS
> > 2.7 100 3000 890 1000 100 135.1 207 100.1
> 890 30 OMFS
> > 2.8 100 3000 870 1000 100 136.8 208.7 100.1
> 870 30 OMFS
> > 2.9 100 3000 865 1000 100 136.8 210.5 100.1
> 865 30 OMFS
> > 3 100 3000 855 1000 100 138.6 210.5 100.1
> 855 30 OMFS
> > 3.1 100 3100 835 1000 100 138.6 212.2 100.1
> 835 30 OMFS
> > 3.2 100 3200 835 1000 100 138.6 212.2 100.1
> 835 30 OMFS
> > 3.3 100 3200 825 1000 100 138.6 212.2 101.2
> 825 30 OMFS
> > 3.4 100 3100 825 1000 100 138.6 212.2 101.2
> 825 30 OMFS
> > 3.5 100 3200 825 1000 100 138.6 212.2 101.2
> 825 30 OMFS
> > 3.6 100 3200 780 1000 95 142.1 212.2 101.2
> 740.8 30 OMFS
> > 3.7 100 3200 800 1000 95 142.1 208.7 102.2
> 759.7 30 OMFS
> > 3.8 100 3100 810 1000 95 142.1 208.7 102.2
> 769.2 30 OMFS
> > 3.9 100 3100 775 1000 88.1 147.3 203.5 102.2
> 682.4 30 OMFS
> > 4 100 3100 775 1000 83.6 149.1 196.4 103.2
> 648.3 30 OMFS
> > 4.1 100 2900 740 1000 73.6 154.3 182.4 103.2
> 544.5 30 OMFS
> > 4.2 100 2900 685 1000 66 161.4 171.9 103.2
> 452.4 27 OMFS
> > 4.3 100 2600 755 1000 76.7 152.6 180.7 103.2
> 579.3 30 OMFS
> > 4.4 100 2800 775 1000 78.6 150.8 182.4 104.3
> 609.3 30 OMFS
> > 4.5 100 2800 755 1000 78.6 152.6 182.4 104.3
> 593.6 30 OMFS
> > 4.6 100 2800 780 1000 83.6 149.1 191.2 104.3
> 652.5 30 OMFS
> > 4.7 100 2900 805 1000 88.1 145.6 196.4 104.3
> 708.8 30 OMFS
> > 4.8 100 2900 805 1000 89.3 143.8 198.2 105.3
> 718.9 30 OMFS
> > 4.9 100 3000 790 1000 90.6 145.6 201.7 105.3
> 715.5 30 OMFS
> > 5 100 3100 785 1000 92.5 143.8 205.2 105.3
> 725.8 30 OMFS
> > 5.1 100 3100 775 1000 95 143.8 208.7 106.3
> 736 30 OMFS
> > 5.2 100 3200 770 1000 95 143.8 210.5 106.3
> 731.3 30 OMFS
> > 5.3 100 3300 735 1000 95 145.6 212.2 106.3
> 698 30 OMFS
> > 5.4 100 3300 725 1000 95 145.6 214 107.4
> 688.5 30 OMFS
> > 5.5 100 3400 710 1000 95 147.3 214 107.4
> 674.3 30 OMFS
> > 5.6 100 3400 690 1000 95 147.3 217.5 107.4
> 655.3 30 OMFS
> > 5.7 100 3400 680 1000 95 149.1 217.5 108.4
> 645.8 30 OMFS
> > 5.8 100 3500 695 1000 97.5 145.6 224.5 108.4
> 677.5 30 OMFS
> > 5.9 100 3600 685 1000 97.5 147.3 224.5 108.4
> 667.8 30 OMFS
> > 6 100 3600 680 1000 97.5 147.3 226.3 109.5
> 662.9 30 OMFS
> > 6.1 100 3700 655 1000 97.5 147.3 228 109.5
> 638.5 30 OMFS
> > 6.2 100 3800 645 1000 97.5 149.1 228 109.5
> 628.8 30 OMFS
> > 6.3 100 3800 635 1000 97.5 149.1 229.8 110.5
> 619 30 OMFS
> > 6.4 100 3800 625 1000 100 149.1 229.8 110.5
> 625 30 OMFS
> > 6.5 100 3900 625 1000 100 150.8 231.5 110.5
> 625 30 OMFS
> > 6.6 100 3900 615 1000 100 150.8 231.5 110.5
> 615 30 OMFS
> > 6.7 100 3900 610 1000 97.5 150.8 233.3 111.5
> 594.7 30 OMFS
> > 6.8 100 4000 595 1000 97.5 152.6 233.3 111.5
> 580 30 OMFS
> > 6.9 100 4000 575 1000 97.5 152.6 235 111.5
> 560.5 30 OMFS
> > 7 100 4100 560 1000 97.5 154.3 235 112.6
> 545.9 30 OMFS
> > 7.1 100 4100 570 1000 97.5 152.6 236.8 112.6
> 555.7 30 OMFS
> > 7.2 100 4100 570 1000 97.5 152.6 236.8 112.6
> 555.7 30 OMFS
> > 7.3 100 4200 545 1000 97.5 154.3 236.8 112.6
> 531.3 30 OMFS
> > 7.4 100 4200 550 1000 97.5 154.3 236.8 113.6
> 536.2 30 OMFS
> > 7.5 100 4200 545 1000 97.5 154.3 238.5 113.6
> 531.3 30 OMFS
> > 7.6 100 4200 550 1000 100 154.3 238.5 113.6
> 550 30 OMFS
> > 7.7 100 4400 540 1000 97.5 156.1 238.5 113.6
> 526.4 30 OMFS
> > 7.8 100 4400 530 1000 97.5 156.1 240.3 114.6
> 516.7 30 OMFS
> > 7.9 100 4300 530 1000 97.5 156.1 240.3 114.6
> 516.7 30 OMFS
> > 8 100 4400 520 1000 97.5 156.1 240.3 114.6
> 506.9 30 OMFS
> > 8.1 100 4400 470 1000 94.3 161.4 235 115.7
> 443.4 30 OMFS
> > 8.2 100 4500 465 1000 92.5 161.4 231.5 115.7
> 429.9 30 OMFS
> > 8.3 100 4500 475 1000 95 159.6 236.8 115.7
> 451.1 30 OMFS
> > 8.4 100 4500 480 1000 95 159.6 236.8 115.7
> 455.8 30 OMFS
> > 8.5 100 4500 500 1000 97.5 157.9 243.8 115.7
> 487.4 30 OMFS
> > 8.6 100 4500 495 1000 97.5 157.9 243.8 115.7
> 482.5 30 OMFS
> > 8.7 100 4500 495 1000 97.5 157.9 243.8 116.7
> 482.5 30 OMFS
> > 8.8 100 4600 485 1000 100 157.9 245.5 116.7
> 485 30 OMFS
> > 8.9 100 4700 475 1000 100 157.9 243.8 116.7
> 475 30 OMFS
> > 9 100 4700 470 1000 100 159.6 245.5 116.7
> 470 30 OMFS
> > 9.1 100 4600 475 1000 100 159.6 245.5 117.7
> 475 30 OMFS
> > 9.2 11.8 4700 265 1000 67.3 177.1 222.7 117.7
> 178.3 30 OMFS
> > 9.3 -7.5 4700 5 1000 0 189.4 33.3 117.7
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 9.4 -8.6 4600 5 1000 0 191.2 5.3 117.7
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 9.5 -8.6 4600 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 117.7
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 9.6 49.5 4600 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 117.7
> 0 2B OMFS
> > 9.7 100 4500 95 1000 20.1 191.2 61.4 117.7
> 19.1 30 OMFS
> > 9.8 100 4200 515 1000 78.6 164.9 201.7 118.8
> 404.9 30 OMFS
> > 9.9 100 4200 705 1000 92.5 147.3 212.2 118.8
> 651.8 30 OMFS
> > 10 100 3400 825 1000 100 136.8 210.5 118.8
> 825 30 OMFS
> > 10.1 100 3100 815 1000 100 138.6 212.2 118.8
> 815 30 OMFS
> > 10.2 100 3100 805 1000 100 138.6 210.5 118.8
> 805 30 OMFS
> > 10.3 100 3100 805 1000 100 138.6 212.2 118.8
> 805 30 OMFS
> > 10.4 100 3100 790 1000 100 140.3 214 118.8
> 790 30 OMFS
> > 10.5 100 3100 785 1000 100 140.3 214 118.8
> 785 30 OMFS
> > 10.6 100 3200 775 1000 100 140.3 214 119.8
> 775 30 OMFS
> > 10.7 100 3200 770 1000 100 140.3 215.7 119.8
> 770 30 OMFS
> > 10.8 100 3200 770 1000 100 140.3 215.7 119.8
> 770 30 OMFS
> > 10.9 100 3300 755 1000 100 142.1 215.7 119.8
> 755 30 OMFS
> > 11 100 3300 765 1000 100 142.1 215.7 119.8
> 765 30 OMFS
> > 11.1 100 3300 740 1000 100 142.1 217.5 119.8
> 740 30 OMFS
> > 11.2 100 3300 740 1000 100 142.1 217.5 119.8
> 740 30 OMFS
> > 11.3 100 3300 730 1000 100 142.1 217.5 119.8
> 730 30 OMFS
> > 11.4 100 3300 735 1000 100 142.1 219.2 120.9
> 735 30 OMFS
> > 11.5 100 3400 730 1000 100 143.8 219.2 120.9
> 730 30 OMFS
> > 11.6 100 3300 720 1000 100 143.8 221 120.9
> 720 30 OMFS
> > 11.7 100 3300 710 1000 100 143.8 219.2 120.9
> 710 30 OMFS
> > 11.8 100 3500 700 1000 100 143.8 221 120.9
> 700 30 OMFS
> > 11.9 100 3400 705 1000 100 145.6 221 120.9
> 705 30 OMFS
> > 12 100 3400 705 1000 100 143.8 222.7 120.9
> 705 30 OMFS
> > 12.1 100 3500 690 1000 100 143.8 222.7 121.9
> 690 30 OMFS
> > 12.2 100 3500 690 1000 100 145.6 222.7 121.9
> 690 30 OMFS
> > 12.3 100 3500 685 1000 100 145.6 222.7 121.9
> 685 30 OMFS
> > 12.4 100 3500 670 1000 100 145.6 224.5 121.9
> 670 30 OMFS
> > 12.5 100 3500 685 1000 100 145.6 224.5 121.9
> 685 30 OMFS
> > 12.6 100 3500 670 1000 100 145.6 224.5 122.9
> 670 30 OMFS
> > 12.7 100 3600 665 1000 100 145.6 224.5 122.9
> 665 30 OMFS
> > 12.8 100 3600 665 1000 100 145.6 224.5 122.9
> 665 30 OMFS
> > 12.9 100 3600 655 1000 100 147.3 224.5 122.9
> 655 30 OMFS
> > 13 100 3600 660 1000 100 145.6 224.5 122.9
> 660 30 OMFS
> > 13.1 100 3600 650 1000 100 147.3 226.3 124
> 650 30 OMFS
> > 13.2 100 3600 655 1000 100 147.3 226.3 124
> 655 30 OMFS
> > 13.3 100 3700 645 1000 100 147.3 226.3 124
> 645 30 OMFS
> > 13.4 100 3600 650 1000 100 147.3 226.3 124
> 650 30 OMFS
> > 13.5 100 3600 635 1000 100 147.3 228 124
> 635 30 OMFS
> > 13.6 100 3700 635 1000 100 147.3 228 125
> 635 30 OMFS
> > 13.7 100 3700 630 1000 100 149.1 228 125
> 630 30 OMFS
> > 13.8 100 3700 630 1000 100 149.1 228 125
> 630 30 OMFS
> > 13.9 100 3800 635 1000 100 147.3 228 125
> 635 30 OMFS
> > 14 100 3700 620 1000 100 149.1 228 125
> 620 30 OMFS
> > 14.1 100 3700 625 1000 100 149.1 228 125
> 625 30 OMFS
> > 14.2 100 3800 630 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> 630 30 OMFS
> > 14.3 100 3800 615 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> 615 30 OMFS
> > 14.4 100 3800 605 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> 605 30 OMFS
> > 14.5 100 3800 620 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> 620 30 OMFS
> > 14.6 100 3800 620 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> 620 30 OMFS
> > 14.7 100 3800 605 1000 100 149.1 229.8 126
> 605 30 OMFS
> > 14.8 100 3800 595 1000 97.5 150.8 229.8 127.1
> 580 30 OMFS
> > 14.9 100 3900 570 1000 95 152.6 231.5 127.1
> 541.3 30 OMFS
> > 15 100 3900 500 1000 85.5 159.6 214 127.1
> 427.7 30 OMFS
> > 15.1 100 3800 465 1000 82.4 163.1 208.7 127.1
> 383.1 30 OMFS
> > 15.2 100 3900 475 1000 82.4 163.1 208.7 127.1
> 391.4 30 OMFS
> > 15.3 100 3900 435 1000 78.6 166.6 201.7 127.1
> 342 30 OMFS
> > 15.4 100 3900 295 1000 63.5 175.4 178.9 127.1
> 187.4 30 OMFS
> > 15.5 100 3900 290 1000 62.3 177.1 171.9 128.1
> 180.6 30 OMFS
> > 15.6 86 3900 270 1000 58.5 178.9 161.4 128.1
> 157.9 30 OMFS
> > 15.7 44.1 3800 65 1000 31.4 187.7 115.8 128.1
> 20.4 30 OMFS
> > 15.8 -1.1 3900 15 1000 8.8 189.4 68.4 128.1
> 1.3 23 SOMFS
> > 15.9 -8.6 3900 5 1000 0 191.2 8.8 128.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 16 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 191.2 3.5 128.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 16.1 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 128.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 16.2 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 128.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 16.3 -8.6 3900 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 129.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 16.4 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 191.2 1.8 129.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 16.5 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 192.9 1.8 129.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 16.6 -8.6 3800 5 1000 0 192.9 0 129.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 16.7 -8.6 3700 5 1000 0 192.9 0 129.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 16.8 -8.6 3700 5 1000 0 192.9 0 129.1
> 0 23 SOMFS
> > 16.9 8.6 3800 5 1000 0 192.9 0 129.1
> 0 0 OMFS
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hmm, so what about the motor would limit it to 60Hz, or put another way,
what design is changed to allow variable frequency operation? hey it at
least can handle 50 vs 60 hz, bet it can handle 40 or 70 hz too.
Actually was thinking that for an AC motor like these, you would want to
use an automatic trans with a torque converter, and keep the motor
spinning use lower voltage and power it up on throttle and then lock the
converter. The nice thing of this setup is the accessories drive can
run off the main motor and keep running when the car is idling.
gotta look into these AC motors some more..
Jack
Doug Hartley wrote:
The specs on this motor say: "Inverter duty: No", so it is not made to
take the less clean waveforms and variable frequency from an
inverter/motor speed controller running off DC - it is suitable for
operation off AC mains power 50/60 Hz, fixed speed, I figure.
Nice price, though....
Doug
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Murray"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Used and Surplus Motors
Yeah, I saw that in the archives, anyone tried one, certainly the
right price. So it seems not much if anything available on the
used/surplus large DC motor market.
Here is something, on sale only $465 :)
http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=68&categoryID=54
Now just need to figure out how to generate three-phase 230vac..
Now i'm thinking let's do this real simple, and use a 460v DC battery
pack. With 4v lithiums, thats only 115 cells. Seems to defy the point
of using AC vs DC, but my gosh, $3000 AC controllers?
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thx. I may end up posting there - I am specifically looking for a site that
contains some type of "web log" app that can create the pages in a wysiwyg
fashion, to include photos - looks like your site is just providing the web
space, correct??
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Looking for EV project web log recommendations
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:02:27 -0700 (PDT)
<http://www.evforge.net> -- it's purpose is to provide free hosting
for conversion web sites. No ads, either, really nice!
Not a ton of content yet, but here is my page on it:
<http://9Electric.evforge.net>
--- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a good site for putting together a web log (w/
> photos)
> of an EV conversion, as I would like to document mine from start to
> finish.
> I was thinking that cardomain.com might be the way to go, but
> figured you
> folks might have some other ideas.
>
> Thx, Mike
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:25 AM 29/06/06 -0700, you wrote:
hmm, so what about the motor would limit it to 60Hz, or put another way,
what design is changed to allow variable frequency operation? hey it at
least can handle 50 vs 60 hz, bet it can handle 40 or 70 hz too.
G'day all
OK, a little AC drive 101. This is "plain speak" as far as possible not
"tech speak" or even less undersumblable "engineerlish". This does,
however, need the reader to understand some of the basic electrical words
and the concepts of those words.
Since we are talking about the standard industrial pattern of motor, it
matters not if we are talking about a 50Hz motor, or a 60Hz motor, designed
for a particular voltage and industrial market. This only applies to
3-phase motors, as "single phase" motors are actually split phase, with a
bit of "jiggery-pokery" to split off a phase shift to make it run, but that
shift componentry is frequency dependant, so gets upset if the frequency
shifts much.
A motor runs at a given RPM for a given number of poles and a given
frequency. At a given amps, the motor generates a certain amount of torque,
more amps for whatever reason and it will burn out from excessive heat. A
motor will attempt to follow the phase rotation of the AC voltage being
applied, if it is lightly loaded, it will trail the rotation a little, if
heavily loaded it will trail further. As it trails the applied voltage more
and more the amps goes up and up (too far, too many amps, too much heat and
burns out). Horsepower is torque x RPM, keep the torque the same, double
the RPM and you double the hp.
Now here is the "big secret" of 3-phase motors: if you take a motor that is
(for example) 200V 50Hz 10hp, and double the frequency, you have to double
the voltage to be able to still drive the same amps into it. Same amps
means same heating, double the voltage means double the horsepower! Of
course if you take your 200V 50Hz 10hp motor and run it a 25Hz you can only
drive it at 100V and 5hp, so it goes both ways. So our 10hp 50Hz motor is
now able to be rated as 400V 100Hz 20hp. Double it again and you have 800V
200Hz 40hp. But the battery voltage needs to be around 1.4x the AC voltage,
so our 200V motor running at 200Hz would need an 1120V battery voltage,
which has the probability of being a little hazardous, to say the least.
So, we take our 200V 10hp motor to a rewinders shop and get it rewound with
wire that has 5x the cross-sectional area, but only 1/5 the turns. It is
now a 40V 50Hz 10hp motor, that takes 5x the amps to drive it, but the wire
only generates the same heat as before since it is 5x heavier.
The drive transistors for a variable-frequency drive would have to be as
big for our 40V 50Hz motor as they would be for a 200V 50Hz 50hp motor,
since it is the amps that dictate the transistor size. So now our equation
as above takes our motor out to 200Hz at 160V and 50hp, with a 224V
battery, or 400Hz 320V 100hp 448V battery, much more of a manageable
battery voltage.
If you have the time and money, and a vehicle that can position an
industrial 50hp drive, you can "roll your own" AC system, 336V buss onto a
200V system 3-phase drive powering a 10hp motor rewound to 40V and reving
to 300Hz (8400RPM for a 4-pole motor or 4200RPM for an 8-pole motor)
generating 60hp (if it were a 50Hz motor originally). But the output shaft
is still only that of a 10hp, so you may break it, unless you can increase
the sise, or have a new shaft made from a much stronger material.
The drive transistors make the drive as big as an industrial 50hp drive,
the motor shaft is under sized... so now the engineers step in to sort out
something that is a balanced design for our on-road EV. He tweaks this and
that and ends up with a design that integrates all sorts of things to get
the packages that Victor sells with a 10 year guarantee.
So hopefully this has shown why although you can use an industrial motor
for an on-road EV, it would not be to save money. If you have (for example)
a CVT you may be able to "cook something up" that saves money by limiting
the motor speed range or some other parameter. The motor above 40 Hz to
70Hz you are looking at do-able, but how are you going to use that in a
vehicle?
Hope this helps, rather than wastes bandwidth.
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
