EV Digest 5608
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Lugs Loosen Up
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Best cruising RPM
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: July 4th comes early for the KillaCycle
by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Dolphin chip programming repairs complete. 100% success
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: July 4th comes early for the KillaCycle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: bender...and cutting
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor freq question
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: 300ZX Hybrid
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) air conditioning for ev's
by Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: July 4th comes early for the KillaCycle
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: air conditioning for ev's with a little of my rant
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) =?iso-8859-1?q?Wilderness_EV_=96Real_life_experience?=
by "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Jim and everyone else for your support!
And thanks John, especially, for rallying the troops. We're all looking
forward to hearing the good news after you bust into the 11s on Friday night
with White Zombie.
Wouldn't you know it--after all my trash talking about good racing weather
down here in Florida, we've had nothing but rain to washout my hopes of
getting into the 12s before the beginning of July--and more importantly,
before John makes it into the 11s! Oh well. It'll be a well-deserved victory
for John and White Zombie.
That's okay about the rain, too. . .for now. Come January it had better be
bone dry around here for Battery Beach Burnout 2007. I hope to see all you
EV fans down here for some good times!
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 12:28 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
Hey John, all
I wanted to say thanks again for the reminder. Being that Matt is poised
to take this month, what a wonderful way to acknowlege all Matts efforts
with back to back EVents he's attended here lately. Not to say others
aren't doing it as well, but here we have the oppertunity to show our
support. With that said I've also been guilty of letting life get in the
way. This post proded me to be more attentive.
I saw a post about the numbers being hard to see, and it's a fact! I'll
reload the page if I can't read them if a real funky group come up.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello to All,
Yes! Now this is what I was hoping for. Since my morning brow-beating, in
just this short time, Matt's vote count has jumped 20 points to 4174, where
the Mustang hs only gone up one to 4143. Thanks everyone for pulling
through...keep those votes coming.
>
> Where's all the EVDL support for Matt?... I just voted this morning,
> but Matt's car is only 12 votes ahead at 4154 compared to the
> Mustang's 4142. Only today and tomorrow are left before the July car
> of the month is chosen. It would be a shame to see Matt's car lose
> this close race for the spotlight that 1000's of folks view. Please,
> take a whole 30 seconds to vote...it's that easy.
>
> John Wayland wrote:
>
>> Please, go here to support your tireless EV drag racers, and VOTE:
>>
>> http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
>
>
>
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
OK, great job today! Matt's car went up by 86 votes so far today, now at
4240 votes....much, much better. However, now's not the time to let our
guard down, because the Mustang guy's car seems very popular, too, and
it has gained a lot of votes today as well. My guess, is that a couple
of gasser dudes not too happy about eee-letricks infringing on their
turf and their beloved gasoline fueled machines, are doing what we are
doing, that is, they're playing it fair but calling on all their buddies
to help stop another eee-letrick car from stealing their
thunder....literally. Earlier this afternoon, Matt was about 60 votes
above this guy, but now with the Mustang at 4230 votes, he's within
striking distance again and is 10 small votes away.
Tomorrow, Friday, is the final day of voting. We've got to pile on 100+
votes to beat this guy, I'm guessing. Another guess, is that by morning,
the Mustang just might be ahead of the electric :-( Like Matt says,
it's a good race.
Please, do it all over again tomorrow and let's push Matt's car tot he
spotlight.
See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVeryone,
After returning from an awesome astronomy outing at
Pine Mountain Observatory, in gorgious central Oregon,
I'm back in the ole chair here, and throwing my support
behind the EVs on Dragtimes.
John Wayland wrote:
Yes! Now this is what I was hoping for. Since my morning brow-beating,
in just this short time, Matt's vote count has jumped 20 points to 4174,
where the Mustang hs only gone up one to 4143. Thanks everyone for
pulling through...keep those votes coming.
and I would like to add a bit to that:
Yes! Now this is what I was hoping for! John's morning brow-beating had
more effect than he could have possibly imagined, an historical effect even!
Probably one of the most anti-drag racing members on this list is my good
friend Gail, who is now (thanks to John Wayand) throwing her support behind
the EV racing on Dragtimes! I don't know what to say, I'm simply astounded.
Gail wrote:
I tried, but three times got a message to enter a number shown in a box for
confirmation and all three times was told it was not correct. Granted I am
not the world's greatest typist but I am not that inept. Would anyone care
to offer a suggestion as to what I am doing wrong?
I had the same thing happen. First I voted for Matt's car without a hitch,
then realizing, that in order to complete my day, I simply had to vote for
Bill Dube', I went to vote and it gave me the same numbers again. I voted
and it said it was invalid, even though it was clear that it was not. I reloaded
the page and got a new number, which worked fine. Gail, I hope it worked
for you when you retried it. And, a hearty congratulations goes out to my
friend John Wayland, for bringing this momentous occasion about.
This message is a test - it just has more content than the word test or ignore.
I had posted a reply to Paul G's posts about his new pack, right before
signing off my old email address to move to this new one. I got a message from
the listserver, saying that I couldn't post without being subscribed, then my
unsubscribe request went through fine, and the list traffic to that address
stopped.
And over the last year or two, only a very occasional post would go through,
with
never a reply on the others. Hopefully, the problem was just with my old ISP
and will be solved now.
So....testing, testing......
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At the moment i use a nylock nut and lock washer toether
So far so good. I had a huge problem last week because one of my lugs 9the
most negative) was very loose. ended up heating and glowing red hot, lost
power, and melted that terminal.
Always check those lugs.
Cheers
From: Joel Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: EV List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Lugs Loosen Up
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:44 -0700 (PDT)
I am having a tough time keeping the connections to my
batteries tight. It appears that over time the
nut/bolt loosen up.
I understand that lock washers are not a good
solution. So, what do people use to keep their
connections tight? Loctite? A special washer?
Thanks
Joel
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi there,
in terms of the ADC motor, the motor runs most efficiently at around
3700-3800 rpm. The efficiency really depends on the current through the
motor. i have discovererd through my thesis that high currents are not good
and low currents decrease the efficiency of the motor.
Cheers
From: Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: EV List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Best cruising RPM
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:16:54 -0700 (PDT)
In my Soleq EVCort there is a sticker that says I should go 45 mph MAX in
2nd
gear. That is around 4500 RPM. When I shift into 3rd at that point the RPM
drops to about 3200 RPM.
If I am cruising at exactly 45mph (a good part of my commute), would it be
better to run the motor at 4500RPM in 2nd or 3200 in 3rd? How low in RPM
could
I cruise in 3rd? Could I even cruise at 40Mph in 3rd? I am thinking
electric
motors might be a little counter intuitive compared to an ICE which for
long
term less RPM is better.
It may not make much difference either way but I guess I am interested in
both
efficiency, cooling and long term life of the motor. A small effortless
change
in habits may translate into a long term benefit.
There is already a cooling blower forcing air through the motor that is
running
constantly. I don't know if the motor has other internal fins or not. It is
a
40Kw GE Shunt wound motor.
Thanks,
Chet
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I took some quick video as we were disassembling the
motors, but not very "high quality". Hopefully Bill
will take some good quality photos for you. I have to
admit, I was quite shocked how much was still "good"
after an event like that!! The rider, Scotty, didn't
even know that had happened until after he saw the
video! He felt some violent decelerations, so he let
off the throttle, but he rode the bike back to the
pits without knowing something was wrong with the
motors. I hope you will get to know our motors
intimatly before the november races :-)
- Steven Ciciora
P.S. we could not have done this without the help of
Derek Barger. Hopefully soon Derek will post telling
about his new (to him) AC drive car he got back on the
road. Formally owned by Otamr.
> I have to admit that I got a lot of enjoyment from
> that in a sick sort of way. I doubt I would have
> enjoyed it as much if they had been mine though,
> lmao. Awesome video, loved the sound of the burn
> out as it's ending and it chirps.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
> I can't believe it but I'm actually blood lusting
> for close up pics, lmao!
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--- Begin Message ---
There are days when you just gotta take everything you know and put it
all on the line. Today was one of those days.
As everyone knows I have been wrecking Dolphin systems in the name of
science. Specifically I screwed up the programming on my 68HC711K4
master CPU chip in my Dolphin and could not reprogram. Nor could I
really afford $1000-$2000 for the proper programmer.
So I built my own. And after smoking at least one chip it seemed to
work. Only problem is no one has a working 711K4 EEPROM, EPROM and
config register combo for the US Electricar Dolphins.
Well, I had one. The last chip I had that worked which was in my car.
Tonight after trying programming chip after chip I decided it was time
to play for all the marbles.
So I pulled the chip from my car, popped it into the homebuilt
programmer, disabled the +12 so at least I would no screw up the PROM,
and fired up the software. Was able to load the "dump stuff" program
into memory and waited while all the values popped on out.
Then I plugged this chip back into the car. Thank God, it still worked.
I then took the file and loaded it into my wrecked Dolphin chip. Took it
out to the truck, popped it in.
Ready/Fault. Then a nice solid ready as the contactors kicked in.
I tried loading the EEPROM into one of Andy's chips that would always
fault. Popped it in; it works too.
I have done it. I now have the ability to take a blown Dolphin chip, and
fix it so that it will once again work. This means we now have open
season on making changes to the Dolphin controller. If someone does
something that causes the chip to crash, we can fix it.
It is, without a doubt, Miller time. I will be posting the S19 dumps for
a working chip to the US_Electricar site on Yahoo.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Those look nice, but no wattage or btu numbers. :-(
reversing the polarity will work, but it looks like it has different
size heatsinks
http://www.tellurex.com/12most.html
may have this module??? http://www.tellurex.com/starter.html
62W to move 39W, That is not bad but that is 0 cooling
looking at http://www.tellurex.com/cooling_modules/c127.html
if it is 100(37.7)outside and we want 75(23.888) inside DeltaC is 13.8
degrees C.
At 4 amps and 12V about 27 watts of cooling.
ok, let it run an hour 27watthour = 92 Btu or 1/130 of a ton
130 would be, gulp 8kw or 27Amps at my pack voltage. not counting fans.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Glasses might help. I had a hell of a time trying to see it. They use
funny pastel colors and skewed numbers and letters that made z 's look like
2's. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 2:36 PM
Subject: RE: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
> At 08:01 AM 29/06/06 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >I tried, but three times got a message to enter a number shown in a box
for
> >confirmation and all three times was told it was not correct. Granted I
am
> >not the world's greatest typist but I am not that inept. Would anyone
care
> >to offer a suggestion as to what I am doing wrong?
> >
> >Gail
>
> G'day Gail, and all
>
> The problem that I have found with reading the numbers is that they are a)
> in very high-contrast to the background (dim numbers in a dark box against
> a bright screen) and b) the "hard" number (inserted to make it hard for a
> computer to intepret it) is often tilted and/or fades, so that a 1 or a 2
> could be mis-read as a 7, for example.
>
> I sent an email to the site owner, & he basically said that they had to do
> this as someone went to all the trouble of writing a computer program that
> would vote, read the number, confirm it, change IP address and do it all
> again. Remember a couple of months ago a couple of vehicles that'd jump
800
> votes a night, then once it was ahead would get no votes for a week? So
> they had to use a display form that computers find almost impossible to
> interpret correctly.
>
> He could do something about the brightness pf the page background, though.
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do they let just anybody next to the track while doing burnouts? Seems a
bit dangerous. Nice fireworks display. If those batteries are causing you
too much trouble I'd be glad to take them off your hands. (grin) Lawrence
Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:12 PM
Subject: July 4th comes early for the KillaCycle
>
> The fourth of July came a bit early for the KillaCycle crew. We
> provided a $1000 fireworks display at the track yesterday. The rear
> motor reverted to the fourth state of matter about 2/3's of the way
> down the track.
>
> The A123 Systems Li-Ion battery pack (376 volts) supplied an awesome
> amount of HP that turned out to be a bit too much for one of the
> motors. I guess I'll have to keep my comms a bit cleaner. :-)
>
> Here is a clip of that last run for the day.
>
> http://www.killacycle.com/Second%20Run.wmv
>
> Here is a burn-out clip showing good use of the "bottomless pit" of
> energy these cells can hold. We could have done this burn-out and the
> run SIX more times before recharging.
>
> http://www.killacycle.com/Burnout.wmv
>
> We should have the motors all back up to snuff for our next planned
> outing at the AHDRA event on Nov 10-11 at Las Vegas.
>
> See you there,
>
> Bill Dube'
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I remember right the car used 6 12 foot long tanks made from double wall
carbon fiber. I don't know how it did in crash tests but the technology is
definately promising.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:19 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
yeah, i've gone over a lot of these ideas, to get that kind of range,
they must use very high pressure tanks, which have a safety issue, a
puncture could send the car flying like a balloon with a hole in it.
I considered building a pontoon boat using the pontoons for compressed
air storage to propel the boat directly. not sure anyone would really
care if it worked, and chance of rupture goes up a lot in a boat,
doubled wall the tank, blah blah. btw, my machinist I talked to today
built an electric powered jet boat using two electric gocart motors,
said its fast and runs for hours on a charge. Gotta go check that out.
My most recent idea is using a torsion spring, that seems safe, though I
guess it could drill itself into something if broke loose.
But frankly electric motors seem like the right approach, seperate the
drive motor from the electric power source so new battery/storage
technology can simply swap in, i.e. a torsion spring to power a
generator, or a hydrogen fuel cell, or lithium, or solar panels, or
zydectic drummel rotators.
Jody Dewey wrote:
> Actually I saw on "Beyond Tomorrow" that a European company is building a
> car that runs on compressed air. The one they showcased on the channel
had
> a 100 mile range and took about 20 minutes to fill up again. It used
> compressed air in 6 huge tanks under the belly of the car to drive the
> motor. It was pretty quiet and definately eco friendly.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jack Murray
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:53 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>
>
> given a short trip EV, perhaps a tank of compressed air can replace the
> air compressor. A 2000psi divers tank can hold a lot of air.
> Refill the tank when you get home as part of the recharge.
> Jack
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peltier Juntions (TEC Modules) are good at pulling heat but they take a lot
of current to do so. To be able to get the same level of cooling BTUs as
10,000 you would need a whole lot of them. Considering they take anywhere
from 1 to 5 amps each to drive it would be easier to do it will a motor and
a compressor using freon I believe.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 12:31 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
wow that sound really kludgy, although I'd probably try something like
that.. You might look into using thermoelectric (TEC) modules, they are
very power inefficient, but they can produce very cold temps. Me thinks
one could use a TEC to cool water, and pump the cold water through the
existing heater system in a car and get cold air out the vents. The
beauty of the TEC is reverse the polarity, and it will then be a heater,
so you solve two problems at once.
Jack
Jody Dewey wrote:
> It is actually cheaper to get a window unit. I bought a 10,000 btu window
> unit for $199 that runs on 115VAC. I will be trying to run it off of an
> inverter to see if it runs OK. Startup current is the hardest part to get
> to work. If it does, you can bet that I will be installing it in my car.
> This unit has auto temp control, remote fan operation, and is pretty quiet
> for its size. It only weighs 75 pounds also.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Danny Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:40 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>
>
> The "portable" AC units I have seen are 3-port units. That is, it takes
> in cooled air from the room, uses it to cool the condenser, and exhausts
> it. It's a horrifically inefficient and ineffective cycle because
> somewhere the room has to draw in hot outside air to feed it. It can
> actually make the room warmer. In a well sealed room, the pressure will
> drop slightly and the condenser fan will simply stop moving air and the
> unit stops working.
>
> Window units are 4-port systems, which makes a lot more sense. You
> might also be able to modify a "portable" unit to be a 4-port.
>
> You need quite a few BTUs to be "adequate". I'm not clear on how many
> BTU it takes to equal a normal sedan's system but I think it's something
> like 10k BTU.
>
> Danny
>
> Jody Dewey wrote:
>
>
>>Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with an AC
>>inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car but
>
> they
>
>>are more than adequate.
>>
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have that very setup in my shop. I have a 10 inch delta miter saw with a
metal blade. The cool thing is I can cut miter angles with it for quick
battery frames. They only problem is they throw a butload of sparks
everywhere and leave a great big slag puddle that has to be ground off the
metal after.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 1:23 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: bender...and cutting
Not the ultimate ways to cut, but if you aren't cutting much they
make good use of stuff you might already have:
Put a metal cutting wheel into a circular saw. If you have an
electric miter saw (sometimes called a "chop saw"), even better.
For a little cut, a cutting wheel on an air compressor grinder works.
=--- Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Speaking of working with thick metal,
> how do you cut it? I have this great
> scrap that's perfect except for some
> tabs that need to be cut off.
>
> The stuff is 1/4" x 2.5"
>
> Clearly, HF reciprocating saw and HF blades
> is not the way to go. Do I need a
> bigger saw or a better blade?
>
> or BOTH?
>
> (or a case of HF blades :-)
>
> (I got a better blade, but it is captive
> in my ICE car which needs an $800 gasket.
> I told my wife, the EV won't need that :=)
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It would take roughly 10 of those to cool enough air for air conditioning.
50 degrees is good but they pull a LOT of amps to do that.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 12:46 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PJT-4/775/THERMOELECTRIC_COOLER__
HEATER,_PELTIER_EFFECT_.html
Lewis, Brian K wrote:
> Were can I find out more about the TEC concept?
> My car did not have a working AC when I got it so I am starting from
> ground zero.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jack Murray
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:31 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>
> wow that sound really kludgy, although I'd probably try something like
> that.. You might look into using thermoelectric (TEC) modules, they are
> very power inefficient, but they can produce very cold temps. Me thinks
>
> one could use a TEC to cool water, and pump the cold water through the
> existing heater system in a car and get cold air out the vents. The
> beauty of the TEC is reverse the polarity, and it will then be a heater,
>
> so you solve two problems at once.
> Jack
>
> Jody Dewey wrote:
>
>>It is actually cheaper to get a window unit. I bought a 10,000 btu
>
> window
>
>>unit for $199 that runs on 115VAC. I will be trying to run it off of
>
> an
>
>>inverter to see if it runs OK. Startup current is the hardest part to
>
> get
>
>>to work. If it does, you can bet that I will be installing it in my
>
> car.
>
>>This unit has auto temp control, remote fan operation, and is pretty
>
> quiet
>
>>for its size. It only weighs 75 pounds also.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Behalf Of Danny Miller
>>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:40 PM
>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>>
>>
>>The "portable" AC units I have seen are 3-port units. That is, it
>
> takes
>
>>in cooled air from the room, uses it to cool the condenser, and
>
> exhausts
>
>>it. It's a horrifically inefficient and ineffective cycle because
>>somewhere the room has to draw in hot outside air to feed it. It can
>>actually make the room warmer. In a well sealed room, the pressure
>
> will
>
>>drop slightly and the condenser fan will simply stop moving air and
>
> the
>
>>unit stops working.
>>
>>Window units are 4-port systems, which makes a lot more sense. You
>>might also be able to modify a "portable" unit to be a 4-port.
>>
>>You need quite a few BTUs to be "adequate". I'm not clear on how many
>>BTU it takes to equal a normal sedan's system but I think it's
>
> something
>
>>like 10k BTU.
>>
>>Danny
>>
>>Jody Dewey wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with
>>
> an AC
>
>>>inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car
>>
> but
>
>>they
>>
>>
>>>are more than adequate.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ooops , wrong way with the * 2 multiplier.
BTW. That 'r' was suppose to be '4' Each coil changes polarity at each
brush.
+,-,+,- is 2 cycles/rev.
So 6000 rpm is 12000 cycles / 60 = 200hz
Why did you divide by 2 again.
At 200hz, still the question holds, Why do we get away with this and how
much improvement is available.
At 100hz I can see things are not worth improving.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We used Trichclorotriflouroethane (freon) in the Navy to clean electronics.
To date I still havent found anything totally as good. I can understand why
we needed to get rid of the stuff but I miss it. It made my life much
easier for sure. Freon was also a great way to find a bad capacitor or a
cold solder joint.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark Farver
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 1:26 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
EVRIDER wrote:
>On final thought after reading the many great responses to the post....
>If ANY of us uses or has R-12 (Freon) in their EVs, PEV's or PHEV's, we may
as well be driving a H1 Hummer.
>
>
>
Not really... the ICE emits pollution constantly, the refrigerant system
shouldn't. Remember R-12 is only harmful to the environment when it
ends up _in_ the environment. Inside of a working AC system it is
really a non-issue. Keep your AC system maintained and have it checked
for leaks often. While R-134a does not cause ozone layer damage like
R-12 does it is still a pollutant and neither should be allowed into the
environment.
Where we made real progress was by identifying that CFCs were a problem
and making it no longer legal to just dump refrigerants into the
atmosphere. CFC's have to be recovered in appliances and cars before
salvage or repair and leaks must be fixed promptly. Additionally CFC
phaseout hit a lot of areas like foam and electronics manufacturering
that their processes basically involved dumping CFCs straight into the
atmosphere. (I had a shop teacher in 1994 that still swore by virgin
Freon for cleaning everything from electronics to ink off his desk, he
dumped a 12oz can into the atmosphere every couple of weeks. He had a
huge stockpile...)
So in the end, the best advice is a functioning R-12 system should be
left alone until it needs major repairs or starts to leak more than a
few percent a year. "Drop-in" R-12 to R-134a conversions seldom work as
well as the R-12 system did.
If you're going to convert and you'll probably need to disassemble the
AC system anyway . Take the time to flush the system and replace the
condensor with a higher efficiency R-134a model and you'll be much
happier with the results.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
go to the website www.21ponies.com and order his CD. He converted a dodge
Neon to a diesel with electric assist and got 60 mpg out of it. His setup
was crude but effective.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:40 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 300ZX Hybrid
Bill Dennis wrote:
> My wife has asked me if I can turn our 1986 300ZX (5-speed manual)
> into a hybrid after I finish converting my current EV.
A hybrid is an even bigger job than a pure ICE engine swap or pure EV
conversion. Not a project for the faint of heart!
But it can be done. Someone on the EV list (I can't recall the name)
converted a Saab Sonnet into a hybrid, and drove it successfully for
years. Leon Levasseur converted a Toyota into a hybrid with a Honda Gold
Wing engine, Kostov motor, and Zapi controller, which I've even driven.
I'm sure there are others.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I live in Arizona, we don't call it "hot" until it is over 105F. At 110
and up your car is at 150+ and opening the windows is like trying to cool
your house with the oven......there are cactus that don't make it through
the summer. Oh yea ..... but it's a desiccating (I mean dry) heat!
Jimmy
> > From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> All -
> I live in Huntsville, AL and it is THAT hot here as well. The humidity
> in
> the summer is consistently 75%+, and the temperature is generally in the
>
> 90s. Doing w/out a/c, as you so pointedly put it, really is NOT an
> option.
> I am in the process of converting a Chevy S10 and, for the sake of
> putting
> the best "EV" foot forward, I will put a/c in it - range and
> acceleration
> will just have to suffer!!!
>
> Mike
>
>
> >From: "Lewis, Brian K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Subject: RE: air conditioning for ev's
> >Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:30:39 -0500
> >
> >Not that funny.
> >I live in Texas. I have lived w/o ac in my EV for 6 years now. When I
> >show my car I still have people turn their nose up at the idea of no AC
> >and they leave with the mindset you can't have AC in an EV.
> >
> >Building an electric was in part just to show that I could. Now I need
> >to add AC for the same reason.
> >
> >If I park in a Garage no AC is tolerable in the summer. If not it is a
> >long hot drive.
> >
> >Brian
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >Behalf Of Robert Chew
> >Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 7:01 AM
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
> >
> >Why not just open the windows! :-)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
maybe an oscar meyer weiner mobile with the hotdog as the big tank.. :)
but yeah, it could have applications. Perhaps UPS delivery trucks, put
the big tanks on the rooftop.
btw, i noticed today my mailman van uses gasoline, he starts it up,
moves it a block, turns off, 3 minutes later, starts it up, moves a
block, gets out, repeat all day. I can't think of a better app for
electric vehicle. someone want to talk to the USPS?
Jody Dewey wrote:
If I remember right the car used 6 12 foot long tanks made from double wall
carbon fiber. I don't know how it did in crash tests but the technology is
definately promising.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:19 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
yeah, i've gone over a lot of these ideas, to get that kind of range,
they must use very high pressure tanks, which have a safety issue, a
puncture could send the car flying like a balloon with a hole in it.
I considered building a pontoon boat using the pontoons for compressed
air storage to propel the boat directly. not sure anyone would really
care if it worked, and chance of rupture goes up a lot in a boat,
doubled wall the tank, blah blah. btw, my machinist I talked to today
built an electric powered jet boat using two electric gocart motors,
said its fast and runs for hours on a charge. Gotta go check that out.
My most recent idea is using a torsion spring, that seems safe, though I
guess it could drill itself into something if broke loose.
But frankly electric motors seem like the right approach, seperate the
drive motor from the electric power source so new battery/storage
technology can simply swap in, i.e. a torsion spring to power a
generator, or a hydrogen fuel cell, or lithium, or solar panels, or
zydectic drummel rotators.
Jody Dewey wrote:
Actually I saw on "Beyond Tomorrow" that a European company is building a
car that runs on compressed air. The one they showcased on the channel
had
a 100 mile range and took about 20 minutes to fill up again. It used
compressed air in 6 huge tanks under the belly of the car to drive the
motor. It was pretty quiet and definately eco friendly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:53 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
given a short trip EV, perhaps a tank of compressed air can replace the
air compressor. A 2000psi divers tank can hold a lot of air.
Refill the tank when you get home as part of the recharge.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The fourth of July came a bit early for the KillaCycle crew. We
> provided a $1000 fireworks display at the track yesterday. The rear
> motor reverted to the fourth state of matter about 2/3's of the way down
> the track.
>
> The A123 Systems Li-Ion battery pack (376 volts) supplied an awesome
> amount of HP that turned out to be a bit too much for one of the motors.
> I guess I'll have to keep my comms a bit cleaner. :-)
>
> Here is a clip of that last run for the day.
>
> http://www.killacycle.com/Second%20Run.wmv
>
>
Right about the time of the flames, you hear an "Oh, sh!t" from
someone near the camera - hopefully not the one wearing the A123 shirt.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In some cities mailmen are using segways. I dont think the government will
buy an EV - it is contrary to their oil loving mentality. Why else would
they give a tax credit to someone who buys an SUV for their business and get
rid of a tax credit for someone who buys an electric vehicle. It still
pisses me off that I don't qualify because my car USED to be a gas vehicle.
The way I see it is if you buy an electric vehicle a gas vehicle is still on
the road. EV+Gas vehicle = more greenhouse gasses. If you CONVERT a gas
vehicle to an EV, there are LESS greenhouse gasses.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:25 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
maybe an oscar meyer weiner mobile with the hotdog as the big tank.. :)
but yeah, it could have applications. Perhaps UPS delivery trucks, put
the big tanks on the rooftop.
btw, i noticed today my mailman van uses gasoline, he starts it up,
moves it a block, turns off, 3 minutes later, starts it up, moves a
block, gets out, repeat all day. I can't think of a better app for
electric vehicle. someone want to talk to the USPS?
Jody Dewey wrote:
> If I remember right the car used 6 12 foot long tanks made from double
wall
> carbon fiber. I don't know how it did in crash tests but the technology
is
> definately promising.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jack Murray
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:19 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>
>
> yeah, i've gone over a lot of these ideas, to get that kind of range,
> they must use very high pressure tanks, which have a safety issue, a
> puncture could send the car flying like a balloon with a hole in it.
> I considered building a pontoon boat using the pontoons for compressed
> air storage to propel the boat directly. not sure anyone would really
> care if it worked, and chance of rupture goes up a lot in a boat,
> doubled wall the tank, blah blah. btw, my machinist I talked to today
> built an electric powered jet boat using two electric gocart motors,
> said its fast and runs for hours on a charge. Gotta go check that out.
> My most recent idea is using a torsion spring, that seems safe, though I
> guess it could drill itself into something if broke loose.
> But frankly electric motors seem like the right approach, seperate the
> drive motor from the electric power source so new battery/storage
> technology can simply swap in, i.e. a torsion spring to power a
> generator, or a hydrogen fuel cell, or lithium, or solar panels, or
> zydectic drummel rotators.
>
> Jody Dewey wrote:
>
>>Actually I saw on "Beyond Tomorrow" that a European company is building a
>>car that runs on compressed air. The one they showcased on the channel
>
> had
>
>>a 100 mile range and took about 20 minutes to fill up again. It used
>>compressed air in 6 huge tanks under the belly of the car to drive the
>>motor. It was pretty quiet and definately eco friendly.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Behalf Of Jack Murray
>>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:53 PM
>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>>
>>
>>given a short trip EV, perhaps a tank of compressed air can replace the
>>air compressor. A 2000psi divers tank can hold a lot of air.
>>Refill the tank when you get home as part of the recharge.
>>Jack
>>
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a question - you can seriously improve the effeciency of an AC unit
by increasing the size of the condensor. I thought about using two
condensors but as the freon cools it changes to liquid. I believe that it
would pool up in the second condensor and not go anywhere. Has anyone tried
this? Maybe I should just get a condensor from a truck or a large van
instead.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 9:54 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: RE: air conditioning for ev's
Those look nice, but no wattage or btu numbers. :-(
reversing the polarity will work, but it looks like it has different
size heatsinks
http://www.tellurex.com/12most.html
may have this module??? http://www.tellurex.com/starter.html
62W to move 39W, That is not bad but that is 0 cooling
looking at http://www.tellurex.com/cooling_modules/c127.html
if it is 100(37.7)outside and we want 75(23.888) inside DeltaC is 13.8
degrees C.
At 4 amps and 12V about 27 watts of cooling.
ok, let it run an hour 27watthour = 92 Btu or 1/130 of a ton
130 would be, gulp 8kw or 27Amps at my pack voltage. not counting fans.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Having driven a NEV for the past 10 months, I thought it might be
fun to do a low budget EV.
I have this non-running VW based fiberglass dune buggy in the back
yard under tarp.
Kit #1 from Wilderness EV / e-volks.com claims to have everything
for a VW conversion except the batteries. .
I have some tired Trojan 12v deep-cycle batteries (from when I
replaced the ones in the NEV), I have kept them charged. This could
be a low cost daily driver and just something for my son and I to
play with.
I understood the kit comes without a controller (has micro-switch
for throttle) and you change gears for speed control with 36v or 48v
batteries. After a little time of playing, we can pick up an
Alltrax controller and pot box and upgrade to 72 volts later for a
daly around town driver.
Now the "fun" begins:
I contacted Wilderness EV via email the later part of May. They were
very responsive
I mailed the order and a personal check May 31. (I knew the check
would have to clear before order shipped)
The check cleared my bank June 6, I tried to contact them via email
(7 Jun) and they did not respond.
I called them Jun 9 and was told the order was shipped Jun 6.
I tried to contact them via email on Jun 14, to get shipping
tracking number and again via email on June 16.
I called them Jun 19 and was told that the order shipped Jun 10 and
I requested a tracking number.
On Jun 20 I sent a follow-up email requesting the tracking number
and they responded with a tracking number.
When I checked the tracking number, I found out the order shipped
June 20, not June 6 or 10.
In follow-up phone call, I was also told only the motor and adapters
were shipped as other parts were on back order.
More phone calls and told numerous times parts will be in within a
day or 2.
June 26, the FedEx arrives. A 70 lb motor and the transmission
adapter were packed in crumpled paper and abrasions on motor where
they banged into each other during shipping.
On the 27th and 28 I sent email to check on status and ask technical
questions.
Emails are unanswered and they do not answer phone messages.
The kit still looks to be a viable low cost daily driver and the
motor checks out ok at low voltage.
However Wilderness EV's business practices and non-customer support
are in my opinion - terrible.
The saga continues waiting for the rest of the kit.
My real life experience.
David
--- End Message ---
