EV Digest 5633
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Roderick Wilde did something to my motor!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Daytona 675 specs?, was 214 mph MC
by "Shawn M. Waggoner \(EVDL\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Fun with Z-regs
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: String equalization and lifetime, was: Taurus EV
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Commercial BMSs (was RE: Taurus EV)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Fun with Z-regs
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: String equalization and lifetime, was: Taurus EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Roderick Wilde did something to my motor!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Tesla Motors electric car unveiling moved from July 12 to July 19, in
Santa Monica
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Roderick Wilde did something to my motor!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Burned Motor
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV for a different customer.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Burned Motor
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: DC Motor torque calculations
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Dear List
It has come to my attention that 'Ol Rod has abused his motor once again!
Since it's also come to my attention that Rod enjoys a good public tar and
feathering I've submitted pics to my site for your viewing and judging pleasure
8^ P
Rod chastised me for not having put any links to his sites, so I've remedied
that for your ease in a public intervention to help stop this horrid motor
abuse. I ask that you all read the charges and judge him both severly, and
promptly!
Rod you know I still love you but sometimes you just have to whip out the
tough love! 8^ P
Hope you all enjoy.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> That's what the SB175 need ...you have to walk them.
> If you use a SB350.. it's about 1/2 the forces.
You must have some bum SB175s; mine plug and unplug fine. The SB350 in
my doesn't seem significantly different in insertion force than the
SB175s, but I do tend to walk it when unmating.
> Get scared.. check the SBX700 out.. it comes with a latch and
> lever system.
The latch and lever system is available for the SB350s (and perhaps the
smaller models too?); it certainly does make the connectors friendly to
users with little upper body strength ;^>
> OK I win!! My connectors are larger than yours!!!
Yep; you win! ;^>
> They have 10 Aux 20 amp pins inbetween the main pins that you
> can stick your Thumb into.
This is what makes them a bear to mate/unmate; even just the 2 PowerPole
aux contacts in the SBX make a huge difference between an SB175 and
SBX175 (the main contacts are identical other than length).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod,
Like Mike also chimed in, it's really hard to find good published numbers on
sport bikes. Comparing it to some other similarly styled bikes, my guess
would be in the mid .7's for the 675, but this is just a SWAG based on
styling similarities to other types of bikes of the same size. Also keep in
mind that part of that number is based on the frontal area of the bike,
which has to include the rider as well - and that is dynamic value.
There is a really good spreadsheet that was published last year that allows
you to input a variety of values to review the effects of lift, drag,
loading and performance on the bike at speed. It also has some power results
as well. You could input the range of Cd and specs from the 675 to see how
the results vary.
Here is the link to the spreadsheet:
http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/images/DragLift.xls
Hope that helps,
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roderick Wilde
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 10:36 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Daytona 675 specs?, was 214 mph MC
Does anyone know what the actual drag coefficient is for a Triumph Daytona
675 or a good guestimate of the amount of HP necessary to maintain 85 mph.
If they were going to use an eight in ADC in the bike I calculated that the
continuous current rating for the motor at 165 volts, which I think would be
the safe limit to take the motor to, would be in the neighborhood of 145
amps. At 165 volts at 145 amps you get 23,925 watts or about 24 actual
horsepower after losses. My question to the list is: does anyone out there
know enough about bike aerodynamics to tell me if 24 hp is enough to
maintain 85 mph? I would think it may but I am not sure.
Roderick Wilde
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--- Begin Message ---
I don't understand why people compare this bike to Bill drag racer, going
200mph in 1/4 miles is VERY hard/exepnsive but its not the point here !
This is a road superbike which only need to take -100hp during 2 miles to
attain this speed...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
> The point is..
> If they HAD the specs and the Bike...ready or even a sample of it.
> It would have looked a LOT different..
>
> Since even the photos that you see clearly don't have the right "Shadows",
> these guys are even laying about what they are showing us..
> That's the point of Rod's post and my sardonic replys.
>
> This is not a real bike.. and is being sold as one ready to go for a price
> that would land you most of a Hyabusa..(sp?)
>
> With 80 K in my hands.. yea.. I would be going fast, But not with Goldie.
I
> can find better chassis than that old Rust bucket.
>
> The step from 150 to 200 is a rather large one..ask Bill Dube...Or any one
> that has gone there.
>
> Madman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 8:41 AM
> Subject: RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
>
>
> > Rich Rudman wrote:
> >
> > > That bike does not have the setup to do 214 at tops speed.
> > > I never said 214 in the quater..
> >
> > No, but you alluded to performance claims requiring time slips backing
> > them up before they can be taken seriously. Time slips around here tend
> > to mean a run down the drag strip.
> >
> > What sort of setup do you think is missing to hit 214MPH? I've done
> > 150+ riding two up on a Suzuki GS1150 with inferior brakes and similar
> > chain drive - the two items you chose to comment on.
> >
> > > What we are poking fun at is it looks like a barley warmed
> > > over Sub 500 CC street bike with outlandish claims, and no
> > > proof.
> >
> > I agree that is looks more like a 1/2 litre bike than 1L+ superbike, and
> > that the claims may be exaggerated, however, with a $90K pricetag I
> > maintain that they can afford to throw the sort of technology at this
> > that you and most other EV racers can only dream about. You'd be amazed
> > at how much more performance you could get out of Goldie if you had,
> > say, $80K more to invest in her than you've got in her to date.
> >
> > > Some how the front brakes look like toys... compared to some
> > > real 1 liter 150 mph rice rockets I have actually seen.
> >
> > Others have suggested that the images are mockups, not photos of a real
> > product; read the specs, they describe components that, as Paul Compton
> > notes, are if not state of the art, are within spitting distance of it.
> >
> > > The simple warning is ... I bet the specs are not real.
> >
> > I certainly wouldn't bet against you on that ;^>
> >
> > But I would bet that if they build one of these, it will come closer to
> > their predictions than you think.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
> I don't know what causes the effect Steve Condie described,
> but I know its real. When charging AGMs in series some will
> see a voltage increase sooner (when the pack voltage is
> lower and the current higher) but later in the charge (when
> pack voltage is higher and current lower) the same battery
> will have a lower voltage than most of the pack.
When charging with regs of some sort the issue may get confused, but
with no regs on the string this behaviour is due, at least in part, to
differences in recombination efficiency. It only occurs with sealed
batteries (gel or AGM), and it will happen regardless of whether the
battery has been vented.
Things may differ at extremely high current, but at modest charge rates
(say 25A or less), my experience is that the module voltages will track
quite closely through the constant current bulk phase but will
immediately scatter to a greater or lesser degree upon the switch to
constant voltage. This may be due to differences in internal impedance
between the modules causing the applied voltage to divide unequally
between them.
During the final constant current finish phase, the voltages typically
remain scattered, but you don't tend to see one module's voltage drop
while another's increases; rather, they tend to ramp up to some level
and then remain there for the duration.
The voltage of a sealed (PbA) module near the end of charge are *not* a
good indicator of its SOC; the module voltages can be all over the map
near the end of charge, yet the resting voltages (which *are* a good
indicator of SOC) can be nearly identical. For this and other reasons,
I remain skeptical about the wisdom of attempting to clamp module
voltages at the end of charge as being a good way to achieve balance in
a long string.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 8, 2006, at 2:13 AM, Cor van de Water wrote:
Let's see if anybody has been running equalisers for more than 20,000
miles and can confirm that his batteries lasted (I am only interested
in sealed batteries, as the floodeds can be equalised in other ways)
I believe Ed Ang claims 20,000 miles on the AGMs in his Sparrow with
his own regulators.
Or perhaps that's a total of 20,000 miles among all his customers?
Sadly, I can't find my reference for this remembered tidbit, so don't
take my word for it. Perhaps Ed will set me straight?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> But.. you have not seen what I have done yet.
As I said, Rich, the MK3 (and Mk2 for that matter) has potential as the
basis for a BMS, it is just that the regs alone (which is all that you
offer for sale at the moment) do not constitute a BMS on their own.
The fact that you are working on developing a BMS based on the regs
simply reinforces what I said, and encourages me that you might one day
have a commercial BMS product available.
> So....What else do I need???
A commercial product. The question was what BMS systems are available
*today* for commercial/retail sale. What you or anyone else may have in
development in their lab is not relevant (though certainly encouraging).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> You're seeing that some batteries get to "full" a bit sooner.
>> Their voltage rises quicker to 14v, so they get full first,
>> so their current drops off quicker after that.
"Paul G." wrote:
> What Lee? If the batteries are being charged in series and a Zreg is
> dimmer then that battery has a lower voltage. The current through the
> battery with the dimmer reg is *slightly* higher (the current through
> the reg does start at 0 and build up as the voltage increases.)
Right. But "slightly higher" may not be enough for that battery to catch
up with the rest of them. These zener-lamp regulators "lean on" a
battery to push it towards balance, rather than hit it with a hammer to
force it into balance immediately.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick wrote:
> Would there be any advantage/disadvantage to using a simple battery
> regulator (such as Lee's zener/lamp setup) on flooded PbA batteries?
> Obviously the cost and time to implement the system would be a
> disadvantage, but would there be any benefit for flooded batteries?
There are still some advantages. Whether they are worth it or not
depends on what is important to you.
Reducing the amount of overcharging will reduce water usage. This saves
you time for rewatering.
Reducing water usage also keeps the battery tops cleaner, as there's
less gassing. This can reduce corrosion and mess.
It will extend their life a bit, though not as much as with sealed
batteries.
It keeps you from needing to "pound down" the strongest battery with
severe overcharging just to bring up the weakest link to full. So when a
battery does die, the others will be in better shape. It's easier to
replace just the bad one and keep driving, rather than replace the whole
pack.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unfortunately in most (if not all) autos the hydraulic fluid is not only the
working fluid but also used for lubrication / cooling. All the autos I have
worked on a good portion of the fluid is returned through the transmission
cooler then dumps out at various points of the transmission (ie main
bearings) where it just runs back to the sump to be picked up again. If you
loose fluid flow the transmission will just eat all the bearing surfaces
just like in a engine. (its metal on metal bearing for most of the trany
other than the main output bearing is usually ball.) So you have both worlds
running around in there. High pressure to run the clutches and valve body
and high flow for the TC and bearings.
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 06:28:50 -0700
On the subject of using the automatic, Are transmissions flow machines
or pressure machines?
Flow system: The pump flows thru the system constantly building pressure
as needed. If the pump shuts off the pressure drops to zero rapidly. Or
a pressure system like older power steering systems where pressure is
built against a pressure relieve valve.
If the tranny has a pressure port that controls the valves that doesnt
take a lot of flow, ie seperate from the torque converter circuit, then
perhpas we could just put one of those football sized nitrogen charged
accumulators to maintain the pressure while stopped. perhaps a pump on a
contactor could come on to build pressure if the accumulator drains,
like initial start up or long lights.
How about for start up. clutch interlock on key to prevent lurching in
gear and while in start possition a contactor pulls in a resistor and
spins the main motor, building pressure into the accumulator. The motor
coasts to a stop when the key is released to the run position. (make it
like starting a diesel if it takes longer than that)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim, some clarifications. I never said the over heating part was from the
motor seeing high voltage. I said the arcing was. The motor does have the
tach drive hooked to the Zilla and set at 7000 rpms I believe. The
overheating occurred by driving it downtown here in Port Townsend in front
drive only as we were missing a magnet from the front armature. I borrowed
one from one of the rear motors which made them unable to run because the
rear Zilla was doing it's job. I had mentioned that one of the next things I
am installing is temp gauges hooked to the brushes. I used them in the past
in road racing at Firebird to keep the motor together. It would redline the
brushes at 450 F on the straight-aways. A motor can shoot up on armature
temp in less than a second.
I was doing a bit of showing off downtown. I had high up federal officials
from Rwanda in the hacked old mail truck :-) One was The Minister of Energy
for the country and he reported directly to the president. I just had to
give them a taste of raw US electrons at work. So maybe I did get a little
lead footed downtown :-) Now you know the rest of the story!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:58 AM
Subject: Roderick Wilde did something to my motor!
Dear List
It has come to my attention that 'Ol Rod has abused his motor once again!
Since it's also come to my attention that Rod enjoys a good public tar and
feathering I've submitted pics to my site for your viewing and judging
pleasure 8^ P
Rod chastised me for not having put any links to his sites, so I've
remedied that for your ease in a public intervention to help stop this
horrid motor abuse. I ask that you all read the charges and judge him both
severly, and promptly!
Rod you know I still love you but sometimes you just have to whip out the
tough love! 8^ P
Hope you all enjoy.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com
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--- Begin Message ---
On 6/5/06, Jorg Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
But I think I can say that these guys are to be taken seriously (you
wouldn't worry about federal safety standards unless you were serious
about selling a lot of cars), and this is the first electric car that my wife
actually likes the looks of.
http://macworld-cnet.com.com/2100-11389_3-6080269.html?part=macworld-cnet&tag=6080269&subj=news
A Silicon Valley start-up is expected to show off an electric car this
summer that it says can hang with Porsches and Ferraris and has attracted
investments from the founders of Google and eBay.
Tesla Motors says its Tesla Roadster can accelerate, brake and handle like
a high-end sports car. The company, in fact, claims the car can accelerate
from zero to 60 mph in four seconds.
The big difference is that it runs completely on electricity. It plugs into
the wall and is not a hybrid. The battery gives it a range of 250 miles.
"We have made a sports car that is really a sports car," said CEO Martin
Eberhard. "It is first and fundamentally a driver's car."
A public unveiling of the car is slated for July 12 in Santa Monica,
Calif., in which buyers will also be able to sign up to buy the first cars
that come off the line.
A note of correction: the unveiling has been moved to July 19th, 8PM,
in Santa Monica. If you go to the http://www.teslamotors.com/ site,
you'll notice a countdown timer for the unveiling; I guess on the day
after the event they'll make their web site more informative.
Tesla is calling the event the "signature one hundred event".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Rod
You know I'm just having a little wiennie roast with you 8^ P It is nice to
finally weasle the whole story from you though, hehe. If it was for diplimatic
relations I guess it makes it justifiable, maybe. You know it's funny you
mention Rwanda as I got an official looking email from there a while back
wanting to give me money. I took it as a phish and trashed it, lmao! It
probably was but I wonder now...Damn!, lol.
Now if I read your post correctly, you were using just "my" motor to power GP
with not only you but others inside while hot-rodding around town? I just want
to get my facts straight cause that sounds sooo much better for you than the
motor molistations I accussed you of, lmao! Actually if that was the case I'm
rather pleased then 8^ D
Anyway I hope you don't mind me having a little fun while I'm up-loading pics
(a motor guys got to have some fun). Hey if I didn't care I'd fix it, pat your
head, tell you good boy, and send you on your way, hehe.
I've got some ideas I want to run by you so I'll give you a call Monday to
discuss. Got to go, have family in from out of state.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim, some clarifications. I never said the over heating part was from the
motor seeing high voltage. I said the arcing was. The motor does have the
tach drive hooked to the Zilla and set at 7000 rpms I believe. The
overheating occurred by driving it downtown here in Port Townsend in front
drive only as we were missing a magnet from the front armature. I borrowed
one from one of the rear motors which made them unable to run because the
rear Zilla was doing it's job. I had mentioned that one of the next things I
am installing is temp gauges hooked to the brushes. I used them in the past
in road racing at Firebird to keep the motor together. It would redline the
brushes at 450 F on the straight-aways. A motor can shoot up on armature
temp in less than a second.
I was doing a bit of showing off downtown. I had high up federal officials
from Rwanda in the hacked old mail truck :-) One was The Minister of Energy
for the country and he reported directly to the president. I just had to
give them a taste of raw US electrons at work. So maybe I did get a little
lead footed downtown :-) Now you know the rest of the story!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:58 AM
Subject: Roderick Wilde did something to my motor!
Dear List
It has come to my attention that 'Ol Rod has abused his motor once again!
Since it's also come to my attention that Rod enjoys a good public tar and
feathering I've submitted pics to my site for your viewing and judging
pleasure 8^ P
Rod chastised me for not having put any links to his sites, so I've
remedied that for your ease in a public intervention to help stop this
horrid motor abuse. I ask that you all read the charges and judge him both
severly, and promptly!
Rod you know I still love you but sometimes you just have to whip out the
tough love! 8^ P
Hope you all enjoy.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com
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Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had an 8" ADC (w/ broken brushworks) sitting on the shelf in my
shop when it burned.
Is the motor salvageable? Or is it trash now.
Note that this was a HOT fire. Aluminum melted, and the concrete
floor is shattered down 1 or 2 inches.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting, but I would think the user would be paranoid that the
friction drive would tear up tires.
Also the torque direct to the wheel is kinda high.
I have thought of 2 similar ideas.
1. A replacement rear suspension for my FWD grand am that has a
motor. this "kit" bolts in in a weekend and accepts 10 orbitals between
the rear strut towers keeping the useable part of the trunk. Instant
plug in hybrid.
2. same Idea as you except driving the driveline with a chain. The
motor is mounted in the middle of the sled and a hole in the bed allows
for a lovejoy coupling to chain drive. Cut 3" x 6" hole in bed, slide it
up and bolt to the rear of tranny, then re-attach driveline. It would
add about a 1/4" to drive line length. We just need to mount the motor
on rubber mounts to allow some movement. Tap into the ICE throttle
position pot, most are a 5K or 6K pot anyway. put a hydralic pressure
sensor on the brake line. Like from Omega engineering.
Any of these instant hybrids could really get a large mass of people
into EV's in a big way. We could even sell as part of the kit a 2hp
motor to mount on the single serpentine belt and put a overrun clutch on
the main crank, then it can shutdown at will.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland, you hit on the problem.
If the adapter is simple, standard and changes only in 1 dimension,
quantity discounts can be had. Making it a direct drop in for each model
and you have to make 100 of them to recoup your tooling.
Look at mine, I went to Small block chevy 2 piece oil seal as my
standard, The new one you mention is to kinda tough (small) to get an
effective taper lock in
The problem is the motors are chaepest right now with a stupid keyed
shaft. why not just have a shaft that presents the SBC pattern, be
pressed into the armature just like the current one, The only issue
would be larger diameter bearings capable of handling the clutch forces
would be needed. Why??? because we can agree on the keyed shaft, we
can't agree on what standard to make for a crank pattern.
I vote for the older SBC because the clutch situation is solved by all
the IMCA, modified, IMSA, Nascar, and Formula 1 guys.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are correct. For steady-state the HP
requirement is proportional to the velocity
cubed. HP ~ V^3. In drag racing, however, the HP
requirement is the FOURTH POWER of top speed. HP ~ V^4
This means that if it takes 100 HP to
get a 100 MPH trap speed in the 1/4 mile, you
will need 1600 HP to get to 200 MPH.
A good example of this is when Going
Postal ran something like 80 MPH it's first time
out. Folks were thinking "Wow, just a little more
work and he can get it over 100 MPH." If you do
the math, you discover that it you would have to
make a lot more than twice the HP (actually 2.44
times) to bump up the trap speed just 20 MPH
more. It is a lot harder to improve trap speed than you would think at first.
ET takes good vehicle set-up. Trap speed takes raw HP.
Bill Dube'
At 12:52 PM 7/8/2006, you wrote:
I don't understand why people compare this bike to Bill drag racer, going
200mph in 1/4 miles is VERY hard/exepnsive but its not the point here !
This is a road superbike which only need to take -100hp during 2 miles to
attain this speed...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
> The point is..
> If they HAD the specs and the Bike...ready or even a sample of it.
> It would have looked a LOT different..
>
> Since even the photos that you see clearly don't have the right "Shadows",
> these guys are even laying about what they are showing us..
> That's the point of Rod's post and my sardonic replys.
>
> This is not a real bike.. and is being sold as one ready to go for a price
> that would land you most of a Hyabusa..(sp?)
>
> With 80 K in my hands.. yea.. I would be going fast, But not with Goldie.
I
> can find better chassis than that old Rust bucket.
>
> The step from 150 to 200 is a rather large one..ask Bill Dube...Or any one
> that has gone there.
>
> Madman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 8:41 AM
> Subject: RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
>
>
> > Rich Rudman wrote:
> >
> > > That bike does not have the setup to do 214 at tops speed.
> > > I never said 214 in the quater..
> >
> > No, but you alluded to performance claims requiring time slips backing
> > them up before they can be taken seriously. Time slips around here tend
> > to mean a run down the drag strip.
> >
> > What sort of setup do you think is missing to hit 214MPH? I've done
> > 150+ riding two up on a Suzuki GS1150 with inferior brakes and similar
> > chain drive - the two items you chose to comment on.
> >
> > > What we are poking fun at is it looks like a barley warmed
> > > over Sub 500 CC street bike with outlandish claims, and no
> > > proof.
> >
> > I agree that is looks more like a 1/2 litre bike than 1L+ superbike, and
> > that the claims may be exaggerated, however, with a $90K pricetag I
> > maintain that they can afford to throw the sort of technology at this
> > that you and most other EV racers can only dream about. You'd be amazed
> > at how much more performance you could get out of Goldie if you had,
> > say, $80K more to invest in her than you've got in her to date.
> >
> > > Some how the front brakes look like toys... compared to some
> > > real 1 liter 150 mph rice rockets I have actually seen.
> >
> > Others have suggested that the images are mockups, not photos of a real
> > product; read the specs, they describe components that, as Paul Compton
> > notes, are if not state of the art, are within spitting distance of it.
> >
> > > The simple warning is ... I bet the specs are not real.
> >
> > I certainly wouldn't bet against you on that ;^>
> >
> > But I would bet that if they build one of these, it will come closer to
> > their predictions than you think.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> I had an 8" ADC (w/ broken brushworks) sitting on the shelf in my shop
> when it burned.
> Is the motor salvageable? Or is it trash now.
> Note that this was a HOT fire. Aluminum melted, and the concrete
> floor is shattered down 1 or 2 inches.
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
Sorry I'm no expert but if it got as hot as you say there's no way it's
worth anything but scrap.
--
Martin K
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah - we should be comparing it to other 457 pound electric motorcycles with
50 - 100 miles of range ....
Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I don't understand why people
compare this bike to Bill drag racer, going
200mph in 1/4 miles is VERY hard/exepnsive but its not the point here !
This is a road superbike which only need to take -100hp during 2 miles to
attain this speed...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
> The point is..
> If they HAD the specs and the Bike...ready or even a sample of it.
> It would have looked a LOT different..
>
> Since even the photos that you see clearly don't have the right "Shadows",
> these guys are even laying about what they are showing us..
> That's the point of Rod's post and my sardonic replys.
>
> This is not a real bike.. and is being sold as one ready to go for a price
> that would land you most of a Hyabusa..(sp?)
>
> With 80 K in my hands.. yea.. I would be going fast, But not with Goldie.
I
> can find better chassis than that old Rust bucket.
>
> The step from 150 to 200 is a rather large one..ask Bill Dube...Or any one
> that has gone there.
>
> Madman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Stockton"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 8:41 AM
> Subject: RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
>
>
> > Rich Rudman wrote:
> >
> > > That bike does not have the setup to do 214 at tops speed.
> > > I never said 214 in the quater..
> >
> > No, but you alluded to performance claims requiring time slips backing
> > them up before they can be taken seriously. Time slips around here tend
> > to mean a run down the drag strip.
> >
> > What sort of setup do you think is missing to hit 214MPH? I've done
> > 150+ riding two up on a Suzuki GS1150 with inferior brakes and similar
> > chain drive - the two items you chose to comment on.
> >
> > > What we are poking fun at is it looks like a barley warmed
> > > over Sub 500 CC street bike with outlandish claims, and no
> > > proof.
> >
> > I agree that is looks more like a 1/2 litre bike than 1L+ superbike, and
> > that the claims may be exaggerated, however, with a $90K pricetag I
> > maintain that they can afford to throw the sort of technology at this
> > that you and most other EV racers can only dream about. You'd be amazed
> > at how much more performance you could get out of Goldie if you had,
> > say, $80K more to invest in her than you've got in her to date.
> >
> > > Some how the front brakes look like toys... compared to some
> > > real 1 liter 150 mph rice rockets I have actually seen.
> >
> > Others have suggested that the images are mockups, not photos of a real
> > product; read the specs, they describe components that, as Paul Compton
> > notes, are if not state of the art, are within spitting distance of it.
> >
> > > The simple warning is ... I bet the specs are not real.
> >
> > I certainly wouldn't bet against you on that ;^>
> >
> > But I would bet that if they build one of these, it will come closer to
> > their predictions than you think.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
>
---------------------------------
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill, by the way, GP ran 98 mph with the screws turned down and a blown
tranny. The run before we were at 80 mph at the eighth. The second run when
the gears stripped off third I had hit the brakes. When I decided to nail it
we were only at 74 mph at the eighth but 98 at the quarter 5.1 seconds
later. You do your math and you will see she's got a lot more in her for a
hacked up old postal van. As it said in the movie. "You ain't seen the last
of Gone Postal!"
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
You are correct. For steady-state the HP
requirement is proportional to the velocity
cubed. HP ~ V^3. In drag racing, however, the HP
requirement is the FOURTH POWER of top speed. HP ~ V^4
This means that if it takes 100 HP to
get a 100 MPH trap speed in the 1/4 mile, you
will need 1600 HP to get to 200 MPH.
A good example of this is when Going
Postal ran something like 80 MPH it's first time
out. Folks were thinking "Wow, just a little more
work and he can get it over 100 MPH." If you do
the math, you discover that it you would have to
make a lot more than twice the HP (actually 2.44
times) to bump up the trap speed just 20 MPH
more. It is a lot harder to improve trap speed than you would think at
first.
ET takes good vehicle set-up. Trap speed takes raw HP.
Bill Dube'
At 12:52 PM 7/8/2006, you wrote:
I don't understand why people compare this bike to Bill drag racer, going
200mph in 1/4 miles is VERY hard/exepnsive but its not the point here !
This is a road superbike which only need to take -100hp during 2 miles to
attain this speed...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
> The point is..
> If they HAD the specs and the Bike...ready or even a sample of it.
> It would have looked a LOT different..
>
> Since even the photos that you see clearly don't have the right
> "Shadows",
> these guys are even laying about what they are showing us..
> That's the point of Rod's post and my sardonic replys.
>
> This is not a real bike.. and is being sold as one ready to go for a
> price
> that would land you most of a Hyabusa..(sp?)
>
> With 80 K in my hands.. yea.. I would be going fast, But not with
> Goldie.
I
> can find better chassis than that old Rust bucket.
>
> The step from 150 to 200 is a rather large one..ask Bill Dube...Or any
> one
> that has gone there.
>
> Madman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 8:41 AM
> Subject: RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
>
>
> > Rich Rudman wrote:
> >
> > > That bike does not have the setup to do 214 at tops speed.
> > > I never said 214 in the quater..
> >
> > No, but you alluded to performance claims requiring time slips backing
> > them up before they can be taken seriously. Time slips around here
> > tend
> > to mean a run down the drag strip.
> >
> > What sort of setup do you think is missing to hit 214MPH? I've done
> > 150+ riding two up on a Suzuki GS1150 with inferior brakes and similar
> > chain drive - the two items you chose to comment on.
> >
> > > What we are poking fun at is it looks like a barley warmed
> > > over Sub 500 CC street bike with outlandish claims, and no
> > > proof.
> >
> > I agree that is looks more like a 1/2 litre bike than 1L+ superbike,
> > and
> > that the claims may be exaggerated, however, with a $90K pricetag I
> > maintain that they can afford to throw the sort of technology at this
> > that you and most other EV racers can only dream about. You'd be
> > amazed
> > at how much more performance you could get out of Goldie if you had,
> > say, $80K more to invest in her than you've got in her to date.
> >
> > > Some how the front brakes look like toys... compared to some
> > > real 1 liter 150 mph rice rockets I have actually seen.
> >
> > Others have suggested that the images are mockups, not photos of a
> > real
> > product; read the specs, they describe components that, as Paul
> > Compton
> > notes, are if not state of the art, are within spitting distance of
> > it.
> >
> > > The simple warning is ... I bet the specs are not real.
> >
> > I certainly wouldn't bet against you on that ;^>
> >
> > But I would bet that if they build one of these, it will come closer
> > to
> > their predictions than you think.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
>
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I would go with the older crank flange type. If a person is going to do a
conversion, use the large flange flywheel or flex plate. I found that these
old style flywheels can be used on a the later model transmissions that that
uses the large 14 inch fly wheels design for the smaller engine crank flange.
These older large flange flywheels are design for a internal balance engine, so
the flywheel is balance in it self.
I find with the small flange taper lock, that it pushes the transmission back,
because the transmission pilot shaft bearing is not set in the same position as
it would be for engine. When I install the Warp motor in the same place the GE
motor was place, it push the transmission back 5/8 inch back from the normal
position.
My transmission pilot shaft goes into the brass bushing that is inserted into
the GE motor shaft using the large flange adapter. The taper lock coupler has
the brass pilot bushing set into the coupler for the small flange adapters,
which moves the transmission back.
The motor adapter plates are 2.75 inches thick for the Warp motors. If the
adapter plate was part of the rear motor housing like the GE was, than a 2 inch
adapter would work.
I ran with both flanges, and I am going to install the large flange adapter
back on, with a very light weight fly wheel that is 12 inches in diameter.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: DC Motor torque calculations
Roland, you hit on the problem.
If the adapter is simple, standard and changes only in 1 dimension,
quantity discounts can be had. Making it a direct drop in for each model
and you have to make 100 of them to recoup your tooling.
Look at mine, I went to Small block chevy 2 piece oil seal as my
standard, The new one you mention is to kinda tough (small) to get an
effective taper lock in
The problem is the motors are chaepest right now with a stupid keyed
shaft. why not just have a shaft that presents the SBC pattern, be
pressed into the armature just like the current one, The only issue
would be larger diameter bearings capable of handling the clutch forces
would be needed. Why??? because we can agree on the keyed shaft, we
can't agree on what standard to make for a crank pattern.
I vote for the older SBC because the clutch situation is solved by all
the IMCA, modified, IMSA, Nascar, and Formula 1 guys.
--- End Message ---
