EV Digest 5641
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Question on my whining controller.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Question on my whining controller.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Trying to understand shunt regs
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Chris Paine to Ride in White Zombie
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Zilla 1141 code
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Electric Drag Scooter
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: isuzu or mitsubishi truck conversion
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Zilla 1141 code
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Overheating Controller
by "Curtis Hollingshead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) OT re:WKTEC GM's Reply/Blog
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Small AC Drive systems
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Question on my whining controller.
by "Curtis Hollingshead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: OT re:WKTEC GM's Reply/Blog
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Chris Paine to Ride in White Zombie, Ride? Hell, DRIVE it!!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Small AC Drive systems
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: OT re:WKTEC GM's Reply/Blog
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I use a variation of that that may be simpler. Instead of wheel
circumference I use the diameter (in inches) and 336 instead of 1056.
Also, for MPH or RPM I tend to walk the math from the known to the
wanted.
Example (my Buggy); let's find the motor rpm at 50 mph in second gear
(I do this all the time with my Prestolite.)
50 * 336 / 27.5 [tire diameter] * 4.375 [ring and pinion] * 2.06
[second gear] = 5506 rpm. (well, I know the Presto is good for that!)
Paul G.
On Jul 11, 2006, at 6:31 AM, Roland Wiench wrote:
Use the following formula to calculated you MPH or RPM or OVERALL
RATIO, with any of the other known.
RPM x Wheel Circumference
MPH = -------------------------------
RATIO x 1056
or
RATIO = RPM x Wheel Circumference
--------------------------------
MPH x 1056
or
RATIO x MPH x 1056
RPM = --------------------------------
Wheel Circumference
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 10, 2006, at 8:13 PM, Curtis Hollingshead wrote:
(in: Re: isuzu or mitsubishi truck conversion)
I'm using a motor from Advanced DC Motors, with an rpm range up to
5k.
I can't get above 30mph and I'm at the 5k limit and must shift into
third.
Wow, that is some *low* gearing (or perhaps a tach/sender problem.)
Could be your speedo is off and your actually flying (nah, you'd notice
that :-)
I also wanted to point out that if your Curtis controller is whining
all the time (not just at very low speeds) then its overheating. The
first line of defense to protect against toasting the MOSFETs
(switching transistors) is to switch them on and off much less often
(at the lower, audible, frequency.) Even the old, silent, Curtis
controllers do this (I've tested :-) A Curtis can only pass so many
amps continuously and that is quite a bit less than its peak amps. The
continuous rating is also *motor* amps, not battery amps. If you foot
is not against the firewall (and the motor rpm over the peak power
point) then the motor current is higher than the pack current (and the
motor voltage less than the pack voltage.) I'm guessing that with a
heat sink it can pass around 250 motor amps continuously. I have the
Curtis 1221b manual (and controller) and it can only pass 150 amps
continuously (400 amps peak.)
A Curtis 1231 controller should be able to move a small Pickup around
without complaining very often (only in extreme heat or extended hill
climbing.) There are vehicle drag issues that can really add up to
excess amps. Alignment and brake drag are the big ones.
What you have described seems like a workable package. Something is
interfering with it working correctly right now and it should be
fixable. You could just throw a Zilla controller at the problem (higher
continuous current rating), but fixing it should also improve your
range.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:47 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
Here is the current vs. voltage relationship.
Current Voltage
------- -------
0.1ma 12.46v
1ma 12.88v negligible current when not on charge
10ma 13.18v
100ma 13.60v starts bypassing when battery exceeds gassing threshold
200ma 14.42v lamp begins to glow
500ma 15.24v lamp fully lit and limiting current
Love your testing Lee. Is that the 2x 6.8 numbers or the 6.8 + 6.2
numbers? I'm guessing the second but wouldn't have guessed the 1ma
point for either configuration.
Thanx,
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Chris Paine to Ride in White Zombie" is one of the biggest announcements
that I have personally seen on the EV List in quite some time. The list is
somehow very quiet about this. Here is a man who wrote and directed the
biggest movie to ever hit the big screen on electric cars ever and I do mean
ever! He will be taking a ride that will forever change his life and may
even change his shorts :-)
It is not that often that a documentary is picked up by the likes of Sony
Pictures Classics to be distributed in theaters throughout the world. Maybe
I am only speaking for myself when I say that this is a milestone, a new
beginning. The awareness of EVs that will come from this movie alone is
enormous beyond comprehension. It may very well be the tipping point, the
100th monkey, that many of us old timers have been waiting for, for a very
long time. It took the creative genius and passion of Chris Paine to write
this and pursue it to this point. We will have to see what happens to the
mind of this young man once he rides in "White Zombie". I am sure he will be
thoroughly impressed!
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: Zombie's New DC-DC, Chris Paine to Ride in White Zombie
Hello to All,
Just a quick note to let everyone know pictures of Chris Brune's high
voltage capable DC-DC converter, as installed in White Zombie, are up at
the Plasma Boy Racing web page, listed as a sub album in the 'Photos'
section, under 'White Zombie'. The DC-DC converter works very well. Thanks
to Chris Brune for his support and help. Look for a more detailed report
later this week, once I get the back in town and have a chance to do some
nighttime driving.
Speaking of nighttime driving....Chris Paine (Director, WKTEC) will be a
passenger, as White Zombie will be on display at the Portland Premiere of
'Who Killed the Electric Car' Wednesday of this week at Portland's
Hollywood Theater, and he's setting aside time for a Zombie demo
ride....shoot be fun!
See Ya....John Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
Chris Brune wrote:
I hope someone who can make it on Friday can get some pictures of the
mounting location. John always does a clean and professional job of
mounting the electronics in his cars.
If someone does get a picture please post somewhere. I didn't actually
get
a chance to take any pictures of the outside of the unit. I took several
of
the inside so I would remember what I did. ;-)
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/384 - Release Date: 7/10/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the replies everyone. Gets wierder now.
The contactor does have the built in coil economizer. The car was fully
working before with the Albright contactor with Otmar's supplied diode. I got
in the car and moved it up my driveway to change the contactor out, everything
was fine. I swapped out the contactor, swapped the diode over too. I used it
because the Zilla manual says to, and even says something about the supplied
diode being compatible with the Kilovac contactors. I don't see how an extra
diode would hurt anything, though I did play with the contactor before
installing it and noticed there was very little arc when it was disconnected
(BTW, don't play with a contactor near a computer monitor, it really messes it
up).
The contactor deffinitely closes when power is applied to the coils (even
with the diode across it). I went out and disconnected the contactor coil
connection from the hairball and it's showing about 7.5 volts when the key is
turned on and no change in that when I give it the start signal. I'm thinking
something must have happened in the hairball. I did clear the codes and try
again, and again and again, but no go.
I just want to know what the heck I messed up.
Thanks guys
Rick
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow... I want to know what sort of motor and controller can do that on an
e-scoot. Given those tires (safe at about 3MPH) and the tubes they use, I
can't see how your could do a burn w/o twisting the tire off the rim.
Totally insane.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Drag Scooter
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/395 This thing is nuts. It might be
geared
> a little different for the quarter mile but I'm sure it'd beat most
anything
> to 60mph. LR.........
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am running an ADC FB1-4001 and I run it at 45 and 50 mph in second gear at
about 5600 rpm. I am running 120volts.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Hollingshead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 11:13 PM
Subject: RE: isuzu or mitsubishi truck conversion
Tom,
May I ask what motor you are using?
I'm using a motor from Advanced DC Motors, with an rpm range up to
5k.
I can't get above 30mph and I'm at the 5k limit and must shift into
third.
Just curious.
Thanks,
Curtis.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Carpenter
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 7:49 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: isuzu or mitsubishi truck conversion
I have just converted an Isuzu pup 1989. When I ordered the motor I sent
my
clutch disc in and the vendor made an adaptor for the motor to clutch
disc.
Then he sent me a plate to make the adaptor to the bell housing. It was
not
hard following his instructions. I should mention that this was for a
clutchless design. I have been driving it daily since 03/03/06 and have
no
troubles shifting it without a clutch and really I don't have to shift it
that often.
When I am in town I drive in 2nd gear to about 50mph.
If I want to go over 50mph then I just let off the accel. and slide it out
of second and into third and step back on the accel. No problem.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 11:48 AM
Subject: isuzu or mitsubishi truck conversion
All -
Anyone done an Isuzu truck conversion? Specifically, I am looking for a
premade adaptor for same. I noticed on the electroauto web site that
they
have the adaptor for the Mitsubishi "Mighty Max", but not one for the
Isuzu. These smaller (lighter) trucks would appear to be better suited
for
an EV conversion from a performance point of view. Any input would be
welcome!
My initial choice was an S10, but I would guess that lighter is
better....
Thx, Mike
--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/381 - Release Date: 7/3/2006
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/384 - Release Date: 7/10/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It would not be in the Zilla docs. it is in the Kilovac docs.
The "diode" that Otmar uses is a Bidirectional transorb
1.5Ke24CA.
This is a 1500 watt bidirectional Zener type diode. That switches in a
couple of Pico Seconds. This DOES eat the spike coming from both directions.
The point is it does nothing until the spike exceedes 24 volts.
I have heard that maybe he uses a 1.5Ke36CA. I would use a 1.5Ke18CA because
it's much closer to the 12 volts that should be there.
I am using a Albright on the Fiero and the Zilla 2K. And I have one of these
diodes across the Relay.
I use the 18 CA as my gate snubber diode in the main power stage. So I have
them in stock.
Becarfull that you get the CA part noth just the C which is a single
direction device. It makes a nice charge pump if you are not carefull.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla 1141 code
> Rich Rudman writes:
> >
> > Yea Shit can that diode on the EV200. It has it's own diodes and
controls.
> >
> > You are SPECIFICALLY instructed to NOT USE any DIODES on the economizer
> > circuit Kilovac contactors.
>
> Rich,
>
> Where in the manual does it say this? My Zilla came with a extra page to
> the standard manual urging everyone to install the factory provided
diodes.
>
> Additionally, the online Zilla manual says:
>
> The Hairball has internal contactor drivers which require suppression
> diodes on the contactor coils in order to absorb the inductive kick
> produced by the contactor coil when it turns off. Please note these
> may not be shown in the wiring diagrams.
>
> The diodes which come with the Hairball package have no polarity, they
> can be connected in either direction across the coil connection on the
> contactors. These diodes have a 24V threshold so they are compatible
> with the fast turn off required for Kilovac contactors as well.
>
> This implies that they are OK for use with a Kilovac contactor...
>
> Ralph
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Patrick and all,
Thanks for all the suggestions, great info. What an incredible knowledge
base!!
The heatsink plate I was supplied with is 9" X 13" X 1/8" thick Al.
I do have heatsink compound between the controller and plate.
I have one fan blowing up through my control board at the underside of the
heatsink plate, and two at ~45degrees to the controller on top of the
control board. I removed the plexiglass I had mounted behind the grill to
improve air flow, so there should be more than enough fresh air supplied to
the controller. The issue is not as prevalent during my morning commute
when the ambient air temp is significantly cooler. So I suspect additional
thermal management is necessary.
Typical controller temp is 127 to 130F at the end of my evening commute (17
miles), and was slightly higher today.
Ambient air temp has been in the mid 90's.
That initial whine is irritating enough to make me switch controllers. I
was never told about the whine, and now that it shows up rather
consistently.
Should I double the thickness of my heatsink plate?
Thoughts/suggestions?
Curtis.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Maston
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:39 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Overheating Controller
Curtis,
Are you sure you have adequate cooling for your controller? Is it mounted
to an actual heatsink that the fan is blowing on? Did you use heatsink
grease between the controller and the heatsink? Do you have fresh air to
the fans that are blowing on the heatsink?
Curtis Instruments used to sell a finned heatsink plate specifically
designed for mounting to their controllers. I don't think it is available
anymore, but this would seem to acknowledge that in some circumstances
additional cooling may be necessary.
Several EVers have found it necessary to increase heatsink plate size
and/or add finned heatsinks to their controllers to prevent overtemp
cutback.
Most of the heat from the controller is dissipated through the bottom, so
you might want to look at moving your two fans that are aimed at the top to
the bottom side to improve cooling.
It seems to me that continous running at 200A should not overheat your
controller, which is rated at 500A, if adquate cooling is provided (although
I can't find any statements from Curtis Instruments to that effect).
On my car I used an 18" X 18" X 3/8" aluminum plate to mount the
controller (with heatsink grease in between). I also mounted a 12" X 10" X
1.5" finned aluminum heatsink to the back of the plate (also with heatsink
grease in between). I have 2 muffin fans blowing air along the back side of
the heatsink and have not experienced any overheat problems.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
Patrick
>Curis wrote:
Hello all.
New guy here. I've completed my first e.v. conversion, a 1993 Toyota p/u.
Some basics-
System voltage - 144 volts
Controller - Curtis
DC/DC converter - Zivan
Charger - Zivan NG-3
Batteries - 24 Trojan T-145's
Problem- my controller starts to whine excessively towards the end of my
morning and evening commute, and I'm getting less range than expected.
I have a total of three cooling fans blowing on the controller (one on
bottom of a heatsink plate, and two on the control board blowing on each
side.
Typical temp for the controller is ~127 to 130F at the end of my commute.
I understand the Curtis controller whines a bit at the beginning which is
normal, but I'm getting a pretty consistent whine and a lot of thermal
cutout which concerns me.
Tried several things to ensure there's no mechanical drag on the vehicle
pulling too many amps, and still pull ~200A at 40mph in third gear. This
seems excessive, and I don't have much power given the voltage I'm running.
Looking for input/thoughts/suggestions.
Appreciate any help you could give.
Curtis Hollingshead.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure if this has come up on the EVDL yet, but GM's response/"blog"
original URL here:
http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/fastlane_Blog_2.html#EV1
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/maul6
GM'S FORWARD PROGRESS: FACTS VERSUS FICTION.
June 23, 2006: Who Ignored the Facts About the Electric Car? By Dave
Barthmuss GM Communications
Who Ignored the Facts About the Electric Car?
By Dave Barthmuss GM Communications
The film EV Confidential: Who Killed the Electric Car? showcased the
intense passion for GM's out-of-production EV1 electric vehicle. I
understand why. It was great technology for its day, a great concept
and a great car. GM was and is proud to have brought the electric
vehicle concept as far as it did and further than any other electric
vehicle project attempted by any other automaker around the globe.
Sadly, despite the substantial investment of money and the enthusiastic
fervor of a relatively small number of EV1 drivers - including the
filmmaker - the EV1 proved far from a viable commercial success.
But the story for GM does not end with the final credits on the movie.
I've been the person who has spent the last few years answering the
questions of why GM discontinued the program. Although I have not seen
the movie or received an advanced DVD as others have from the film's
producers, I can tell you that based on what I have heard there may be
some information that the movie did not tell its viewers. The good news
for electric car enthusiasts is that although the EV1 program did not
continue, both the technology and the GM engineers who developed it
did. In fact, the technology is very much alive, has been improved and
carried forward into the next generation of low-emission and
zero-emission vehicles that are either on the road, in development or
just coming off the production line. For example:
GM's two-mode hybrid system designed for transit busses have been
placed in more than 35 cities across the U.S. and Canada. Perhaps many
have seen these cleaner-burning diesel-electric mass transit vehicles.
The buses use technology developed for the EV1, such as the
regenerative braking system.
The Saturn Vue Green Line, which will hit showrooms later this summer,
incorporates a new, more affordable gas-electric technology. The Saturn
Vue Green Line will be priced at less than $23,000 and offer the
highest highway fuel economy at 32 mpg of any SUV, hybrid or otherwise.
GM is co-developing with DaimlerChrysler and BMW Group a new two-mode
hybrid system for passenger vehicles. This new two-mode hybrid
technology will debut next year in a Chevrolet Tahoe full-size SUV,
which will offer a 25 percent improvement in combined city and highway
fuel economy when joined with other GM fuel-saving technologies.
Technology born in the EV1 is incorporated into this new two-mode
hybrid system.
GM's fourth-generation hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, which enhances the
technology found in today's HydroGen3 fuel cell vehicle, (currently in
demonstration fleets around the world), will be introduced later this
year and will represent a leap forward toward a production ready
version of a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. For the longer term, GM sees
hydrogen and fuel cells as the best combination of energy carrier and
power source to achieve truly sustainable transportation. A fuel cell
energized by hydrogen emits just pure water, produces no greenhouse
gasses, and is twice as efficient as an internal combustion engine.
Although hydrogen fuel cell technology was cast as a pie-in-the-sky
technology by the moviemakers, GM is making great progress in fuel cell
research and development and is on track to achieving its goal to
validate and design a fuel cell propulsion system by 2010 that is
competitive with current combustion systems on durability and
performance, and that ultimately can be built at scale, affordably.
Add to all this GM's leadership in flex-fuel vehicles that run on
clean-burning bio fuels such as corn-based ethanol and our new "active
fuel management" system that shuts down half the engine's pistons at
highway speeds to improve fuel economy, and we feel we are doing more
than any other automaker to address the issues of oil dependence, fuel
economy, and emissions from vehicles. And we are committed to do more.
Lastly, because the movie made some harsh criticisms of GM for
discontinuing the EV1, let me set the record straight:
GM spent more than $1 billion developing the EV1 including significant
sums on marketing and incentives to develop a mass market for it.
Only 800 vehicles were leased during a four-year period.
No other major automotive manufacturer is producing a pure electric
vehicle for use on public roads and highways.
A waiting list of 5,000 only generated 50 people willing to follow
through to a lease.
Because of low demand for the EV1, parts suppliers quit making
replacement parts making future repair and safety of the vehicles
difficult to nearly impossible.
Could GM have handled its decision to say "no" to offers to buy EV1s
upon natural lease expirations better than it did? Sure. In some ways,
I personally regret that we could not find a way for the EV1 lessees to
keep their cars. We did what we felt was right in discontinuing a
vehicle that we could no longer guarantee could be operated safely over
the long term or that we would be able to repair.
In turn, GM engineers used EV1s for cold-weather testing to continue
the technology transfer to hybrids and fuel cells. We also donated them
to universities and museums. In fact, we donated an EV1 to the
Smithsonian and are now being wrongly accused of a conspiracy with the
museum because they removed the car for renovation of the National
Museum of American History. I can assure you that this is nothing more
than unfortunate timing.
So as right and as good as our intentions were, we understand that the
moviemakers see them as wrong. We'll accept that criticism, but don't
punish GM for doing a good deed. Rather, work with us and give us
credit for taking a necessary first step in developing technologies
that hold the potential to change the face of automobile
transportation. That's what GM engineers are doing everyday.
GM invested more than $1 billion in the EV1 program, which included
oney for installing a charging infrastructure and for marketing the
product.
Even with extensive publicity, award-winning advertising and customer
incentives the Electric Vehicle program was not a commercially viable
business.
GM leveraged advanced technology to create the Saturn Vue Green Line
Hybrid. It will hit showrooms later this summer, incorporating a new,
more affordable gas-electric technology.
*Based on 2006 EPA estimates.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
> Why does an AC system need to be tuned?
Because they design them that way. When the designer knows the motor's
winding resistance, inductance, and other parameters, he can design the
controller to squeeze out a little more efficiency and have a little
bigger safety factor.
The same thing could be done with DC drives. In fact, it *is* done for
DC drives in high-volume OEM applications where the motor and controller
are always used as a matched pair.
But with DC drives, it is much more common to find that one manufacturer
builds the controller, and a different unrelated manufacturer builds the
motor. They don't talk to each other, and don't exchange specs.
Therefore, the motor designer ignores the effect of the controller, and
the controller manufacturer ignores the effect of the motor. Each one
therefore gives up a little efficiency, and the parts need to be a bit
bigger and more robust to provide enough safety factor.
Here's a simple example to show how this works. Suppose you want to
drive a relay coil with a transistor. If you don't know the coil's
resistance and inductance, you need to use a big enough transistor to
handle the worst-case peak on-state current, and highest inductive
voltage spike on turnoff.
But if you *do* know the coil resistance and inductance, you can reduce
the size of the transistor (save money) and still enough safety margin
so it won't fail. You can use a "slugger" circuit that hits the coil
with a higher current initially, to turn it on faster ,and then cuts
back to a lower holding current to save energy (improve efficiency).
And, you can include a "snubber" circuit that works with the coil's
inductance and resistance to damp out the peak inductive voltage spike.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor,
Great points.
I had new bearings installed along with high tech lube, and had the rotors
turned so that they were completely true.
Replaced master cylinder (truck has 128K miles on it, and probably due
anyway), and bled all brake lines starting with furthest from master
cylinder.
Synthetic fluid added to tranny and rear diff.
With driveline removed I can turn the aux. shaft of my FB1-4001 motor/tranny
combo by hand, so no obvious drag/resistance there.
I can move the vehicle by hand on flat surface of my garage.
Adjusted auto tensioners on rear brakes, and ensured emergency brake is not
dragging.
Cooper 185-R-14 tires, load range D, pressure set to 65psi rear, and 60psi
front as per tire shop and manufacturer recommendations.
Battery weight is 1700+ lbs, could this payload weight be part of the issue?
Batteries are mounted in the bed of the truck protected by a fiberglass
tonneau cover.
What did you mean by "brush timing"? I'm running an Advanced DC FB1-4001
motor and have not heard this term before. Is this a parameter I can
adjust?
Curtis.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:46 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Question on my whining controller.
Curtis,
I take it that you have checked bearings and brake drag;
free turning of differential and drive shaft, that you can
easily move the vehicle by hand on a flat and level surface
(can you?)
so a few things to check, if you did not already:
- with the changed weight the ride height can be changed,
which sometimes changes the toe-in significantly.
Make sure that in the normal loaded state your toe-in is zero.
- what tire pressure are you running?
My (Tigerpaw) tires say max inflation 35 PSI.
I tried that and did not like it - tires were bulging too much,
once on a sharp corner I lost chunks out of my front tire's
sidewall, because I was no longer running on the thread, so I
decided to listen to others and pumped the tires to 50 PSI.
They ride much happier now and my power consumption is way down.
(I guess about 20 to 30% lower)
There may be other things to check when measuring current, such
as the direction of wind and measuring in 2 directions, to avoid
that you did not notice that the road was not entirely flat.
Another thing to check - I did not see which type of motor you are
using, but may it have been "advanced" in brush timing, as there is
a slight risk of advancing in the wrong direction.
Other EV'ers probably have more suggestions,
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Curtis Hollingshead
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 7:29 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Question on my whining controller.
Hello all.
New guy here. I've completed my first e.v. conversion, a 1993 Toyota p/u.
Some basics-
System voltage - 144 volts
Controller - Curtis
DC/DC converter - Zivan
Charger - Zivan NG-3
Batteries - 24 Trojan T-145's
Problem- my controller starts to whine excessively towards the end of my
morning and evening commute, and I'm getting less range than expected.
I have a total of three cooling fans blowing on the controller (one on
bottom of a heatsink plate, and two on the control board blowing on each
side.
Typical temp for the controller is ~127 to 130F at the end of my commute.
I understand the Curtis controller whines a bit at the beginning which is
normal, but I'm getting a pretty consistent whine and a lot of thermal
cutout which concerns me.
Tried several things to ensure there's no mechanical drag on the vehicle
pulling too many amps, and still pull ~200A at 40mph in third gear. This
seems excessive, and I don't have much power given the voltage I'm running.
Looking for input/thoughts/suggestions.
Appreciate any help you could give.
Curtis Hollingshead.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Barthmuss @ GM Communications wrote: "A fuel cell
energized by hydrogen emits just pure water, produces no greenhouse
gasses, and is twice as efficient as an internal combustion engine"
...but he didn't mention that it takes 4 times the electricity to make the
hydrogen as a BEV would need for the same range. 4
times the electricy means 4 times the (albeit already low compared to the
infernal combustion engine) pollution AND yes,
greenhouse gasses.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lock Hughes
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:10 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: OT re:WKTEC GM's Reply/Blog
>
>
> Not sure if this has come up on the EVDL yet, but GM's response/"blog"
> original URL here:
> http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/fastlane_Blog_2.html#EV1
> or tinyURL here:
> http://tinyurl.com/maul6
>
> GM'S FORWARD PROGRESS: FACTS VERSUS FICTION.
> June 23, 2006: Who Ignored the Facts About the Electric Car? By Dave
> Barthmuss GM Communications
>
> Who Ignored the Facts About the Electric Car?
>
> By Dave Barthmuss GM Communications
>
> The film EV Confidential: Who Killed the Electric Car? showcased the
> intense passion for GM's out-of-production EV1 electric vehicle. I
> understand why. It was great technology for its day, a great concept
> and a great car. GM was and is proud to have brought the electric
> vehicle concept as far as it did and further than any other electric
> vehicle project attempted by any other automaker around the globe.
> Sadly, despite the substantial investment of money and the enthusiastic
> fervor of a relatively small number of EV1 drivers - including the
> filmmaker - the EV1 proved far from a viable commercial success.
>
> But the story for GM does not end with the final credits on the movie.
> I've been the person who has spent the last few years answering the
> questions of why GM discontinued the program. Although I have not seen
> the movie or received an advanced DVD as others have from the film's
> producers, I can tell you that based on what I have heard there may be
> some information that the movie did not tell its viewers. The good news
> for electric car enthusiasts is that although the EV1 program did not
> continue, both the technology and the GM engineers who developed it
> did. In fact, the technology is very much alive, has been improved and
> carried forward into the next generation of low-emission and
> zero-emission vehicles that are either on the road, in development or
> just coming off the production line. For example:
>
> GM's two-mode hybrid system designed for transit busses have been
> placed in more than 35 cities across the U.S. and Canada. Perhaps many
> have seen these cleaner-burning diesel-electric mass transit vehicles.
> The buses use technology developed for the EV1, such as the
> regenerative braking system.
>
> The Saturn Vue Green Line, which will hit showrooms later this summer,
> incorporates a new, more affordable gas-electric technology. The Saturn
> Vue Green Line will be priced at less than $23,000 and offer the
> highest highway fuel economy at 32 mpg of any SUV, hybrid or otherwise.
>
> GM is co-developing with DaimlerChrysler and BMW Group a new two-mode
> hybrid system for passenger vehicles. This new two-mode hybrid
> technology will debut next year in a Chevrolet Tahoe full-size SUV,
> which will offer a 25 percent improvement in combined city and highway
> fuel economy when joined with other GM fuel-saving technologies.
> Technology born in the EV1 is incorporated into this new two-mode
> hybrid system.
>
> GM's fourth-generation hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, which enhances the
> technology found in today's HydroGen3 fuel cell vehicle, (currently in
> demonstration fleets around the world), will be introduced later this
> year and will represent a leap forward toward a production ready
> version of a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. For the longer term, GM sees
> hydrogen and fuel cells as the best combination of energy carrier and
> power source to achieve truly sustainable transportation. A fuel cell
> energized by hydrogen emits just pure water, produces no greenhouse
> gasses, and is twice as efficient as an internal combustion engine.
> Although hydrogen fuel cell technology was cast as a pie-in-the-sky
> technology by the moviemakers, GM is making great progress in fuel cell
> research and development and is on track to achieving its goal to
> validate and design a fuel cell propulsion system by 2010 that is
> competitive with current combustion systems on durability and
> performance, and that ultimately can be built at scale, affordably.
> Add to all this GM's leadership in flex-fuel vehicles that run on
> clean-burning bio fuels such as corn-based ethanol and our new "active
> fuel management" system that shuts down half the engine's pistons at
> highway speeds to improve fuel economy, and we feel we are doing more
> than any other automaker to address the issues of oil dependence, fuel
> economy, and emissions from vehicles. And we are committed to do more.
>
> Lastly, because the movie made some harsh criticisms of GM for
> discontinuing the EV1, let me set the record straight:
>
> GM spent more than $1 billion developing the EV1 including significant
> sums on marketing and incentives to develop a mass market for it.
> Only 800 vehicles were leased during a four-year period.
> No other major automotive manufacturer is producing a pure electric
> vehicle for use on public roads and highways.
> A waiting list of 5,000 only generated 50 people willing to follow
> through to a lease.
> Because of low demand for the EV1, parts suppliers quit making
> replacement parts making future repair and safety of the vehicles
> difficult to nearly impossible.
> Could GM have handled its decision to say "no" to offers to buy EV1s
> upon natural lease expirations better than it did? Sure. In some ways,
> I personally regret that we could not find a way for the EV1 lessees to
> keep their cars. We did what we felt was right in discontinuing a
> vehicle that we could no longer guarantee could be operated safely over
> the long term or that we would be able to repair.
>
> In turn, GM engineers used EV1s for cold-weather testing to continue
> the technology transfer to hybrids and fuel cells. We also donated them
> to universities and museums. In fact, we donated an EV1 to the
> Smithsonian and are now being wrongly accused of a conspiracy with the
> museum because they removed the car for renovation of the National
> Museum of American History. I can assure you that this is nothing more
> than unfortunate timing.
>
> So as right and as good as our intentions were, we understand that the
> moviemakers see them as wrong. We'll accept that criticism, but don't
> punish GM for doing a good deed. Rather, work with us and give us
> credit for taking a necessary first step in developing technologies
> that hold the potential to change the face of automobile
> transportation. That's what GM engineers are doing everyday.
>
> GM invested more than $1 billion in the EV1 program, which included
> oney for installing a charging infrastructure and for marketing the
> product.
>
> Even with extensive publicity, award-winning advertising and customer
> incentives the Electric Vehicle program was not a commercially viable
> business.
>
> GM leveraged advanced technology to create the Saturn Vue Green Line
> Hybrid. It will hit showrooms later this summer, incorporating a new,
> more affordable gas-electric technology.
>
> *Based on 2006 EPA estimates.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:53 PM
Subject: Chris Paine to Ride in White Zombie
> "Chris Paine to Ride in White Zombie" is one of the biggest announcements
> that I have personally seen on the EV List in quite some time.
Snip-a-bit
. We will have to see what happens to the
> mind of this young man once he rides in "White Zombie". I am sure he will
be
> thoroughly impressed!
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
> Hell! Let Chris(ex EV-1 pilot) DRIVE it! He, like Matt Greham, would
probably zip by saying " I'm not DONE yet!"A BIG EV grin in place. I'd EVen
buy the electricity! Get him out to PIR while he is in town, see Zombie
smoke the gassers. Guess youi aren't allowed to carry passengers while
dragging??What's a few hundred lbs among friends?I would like to go on one
of those runs, myself.
My two Sec. reaction time worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's right Roger. Inverter must know the rotor resistance,
stator inductance and few other things including inductance
of the motor power cables. I can speak for Siemens, MES
and BRUSA systems, haven't dealt with any others yet.
Those include a motor model in their software and that model
should match actual motor connected. Main concern other than
poor efficiency and impedances mismatch is thermal de-rating
model - when a motor overheats at max power, inverter will
decrease the power feed, but not linearly based on a temp
sensor, but rather following thermal characteristics model.
That allows to lower power just enough to keep the motor
in safe operation region, but not more (which would be
unnessesary derating and useful power loss).
This sophistication may seem unneeded but that's not the
case - kilowatts of power could be lost due to a mismatch.
BTW, DC systems perhaps could benefit from this concept,
but I'm not aware of any implementing a motor model.
Thus usually any motor goes and a temp sensor(s) is all the
feed back. Watching not to burn the motor while utilizing
maximum it can give is user's problem then.
Victor
Roger Stockton wrote:
Mike Phillips wrote:
Why does an ac system need to be tuned?
I haven't tuned a Curtis AC drive myself, so I can't offer any specific
details on its requirements, but in general the controller needs to be
configured to be aware of the motor and motor/controller cabling
characteristics/parameters in order to achieve optimal performance.
This is true of the AC systems Victor sells as well, which is why I
don't believe he is interested in selling someone a motor or controller
by itself or knowing that it would be used with an unknown motor.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sorry, but I had a 1987 Nissan Sentra that could do
over 30MPG...not too impressive for a 20 year gap...
especially when Prius and Insight are getting over 60MPG.
The Saturn Vue Green Line, which will hit showrooms later this summer,
incorporates a new, more affordable gas-electric technology. The Saturn
Vue Green Line will be priced at less than $23,000 and offer the
highest highway fuel economy at 32 mpg of any SUV, hybrid or otherwise.
Lock Hughes wrote:
Not sure if this has come up on the EVDL yet, but GM's response/"blog"
original URL here:
http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/fastlane_Blog_2.html#EV1
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/maul6
GM'S FORWARD PROGRESS: FACTS VERSUS FICTION.
June 23, 2006: Who Ignored the Facts About the Electric Car? By Dave
Barthmuss GM Communications
Who Ignored the Facts About the Electric Car?
By Dave Barthmuss GM Communications
The film EV Confidential: Who Killed the Electric Car? showcased the
intense passion for GM's out-of-production EV1 electric vehicle. I
understand why. It was great technology for its day, a great concept
and a great car. GM was and is proud to have brought the electric
vehicle concept as far as it did and further than any other electric
vehicle project attempted by any other automaker around the globe.
Sadly, despite the substantial investment of money and the enthusiastic
fervor of a relatively small number of EV1 drivers - including the
filmmaker - the EV1 proved far from a viable commercial success.
But the story for GM does not end with the final credits on the movie.
I've been the person who has spent the last few years answering the
questions of why GM discontinued the program. Although I have not seen
the movie or received an advanced DVD as others have from the film's
producers, I can tell you that based on what I have heard there may be
some information that the movie did not tell its viewers. The good news
for electric car enthusiasts is that although the EV1 program did not
continue, both the technology and the GM engineers who developed it
did. In fact, the technology is very much alive, has been improved and
carried forward into the next generation of low-emission and
zero-emission vehicles that are either on the road, in development or
just coming off the production line. For example:
GM's two-mode hybrid system designed for transit busses have been
placed in more than 35 cities across the U.S. and Canada. Perhaps many
have seen these cleaner-burning diesel-electric mass transit vehicles.
The buses use technology developed for the EV1, such as the
regenerative braking system.
The Saturn Vue Green Line, which will hit showrooms later this summer,
incorporates a new, more affordable gas-electric technology. The Saturn
Vue Green Line will be priced at less than $23,000 and offer the
highest highway fuel economy at 32 mpg of any SUV, hybrid or otherwise.
GM is co-developing with DaimlerChrysler and BMW Group a new two-mode
hybrid system for passenger vehicles. This new two-mode hybrid
technology will debut next year in a Chevrolet Tahoe full-size SUV,
which will offer a 25 percent improvement in combined city and highway
fuel economy when joined with other GM fuel-saving technologies.
Technology born in the EV1 is incorporated into this new two-mode
hybrid system.
GM's fourth-generation hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, which enhances the
technology found in today's HydroGen3 fuel cell vehicle, (currently in
demonstration fleets around the world), will be introduced later this
year and will represent a leap forward toward a production ready
version of a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. For the longer term, GM sees
hydrogen and fuel cells as the best combination of energy carrier and
power source to achieve truly sustainable transportation. A fuel cell
energized by hydrogen emits just pure water, produces no greenhouse
gasses, and is twice as efficient as an internal combustion engine.
Although hydrogen fuel cell technology was cast as a pie-in-the-sky
technology by the moviemakers, GM is making great progress in fuel cell
research and development and is on track to achieving its goal to
validate and design a fuel cell propulsion system by 2010 that is
competitive with current combustion systems on durability and
performance, and that ultimately can be built at scale, affordably.
Add to all this GM's leadership in flex-fuel vehicles that run on
clean-burning bio fuels such as corn-based ethanol and our new "active
fuel management" system that shuts down half the engine's pistons at
highway speeds to improve fuel economy, and we feel we are doing more
than any other automaker to address the issues of oil dependence, fuel
economy, and emissions from vehicles. And we are committed to do more.
Lastly, because the movie made some harsh criticisms of GM for
discontinuing the EV1, let me set the record straight:
GM spent more than $1 billion developing the EV1 including significant
sums on marketing and incentives to develop a mass market for it.
Only 800 vehicles were leased during a four-year period.
No other major automotive manufacturer is producing a pure electric
vehicle for use on public roads and highways.
A waiting list of 5,000 only generated 50 people willing to follow
through to a lease.
Because of low demand for the EV1, parts suppliers quit making
replacement parts making future repair and safety of the vehicles
difficult to nearly impossible.
Could GM have handled its decision to say "no" to offers to buy EV1s
upon natural lease expirations better than it did? Sure. In some ways,
I personally regret that we could not find a way for the EV1 lessees to
keep their cars. We did what we felt was right in discontinuing a
vehicle that we could no longer guarantee could be operated safely over
the long term or that we would be able to repair.
In turn, GM engineers used EV1s for cold-weather testing to continue
the technology transfer to hybrids and fuel cells. We also donated them
to universities and museums. In fact, we donated an EV1 to the
Smithsonian and are now being wrongly accused of a conspiracy with the
museum because they removed the car for renovation of the National
Museum of American History. I can assure you that this is nothing more
than unfortunate timing.
So as right and as good as our intentions were, we understand that the
moviemakers see them as wrong. We'll accept that criticism, but don't
punish GM for doing a good deed. Rather, work with us and give us
credit for taking a necessary first step in developing technologies
that hold the potential to change the face of automobile
transportation. That's what GM engineers are doing everyday.
GM invested more than $1 billion in the EV1 program, which included
oney for installing a charging infrastructure and for marketing the
product.
Even with extensive publicity, award-winning advertising and customer
incentives the Electric Vehicle program was not a commercially viable
business.
GM leveraged advanced technology to create the Saturn Vue Green Line
Hybrid. It will hit showrooms later this summer, incorporating a new,
more affordable gas-electric technology.
*Based on 2006 EPA estimates.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
