EV Digest 5663
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motor mounts or hard bolted to frame (ecobra)
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 1991 G-Van on Ebay, in Mesa, AZ
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Trust GM to give you the facts about EV1
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) It drives! (again)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Creusen, mfgr of 9.2Kw 120v DC brushless motors etc
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Aluminium battery 3000 cycles - please no oilys!!!
by "Tim Ireland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: It drives! (again)
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Creusen, mfgr of 9.2Kw 120v DC brushless motors etc
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Solectria Force
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Aluminium battery 3000 cycles - please no oilys!!!
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I've been doing some unrelated work where I cast parts out of high shore
(90) urethane. Man this stuff comes out hard and strong. Actually I
had a weight-critical issue where I needed it to be even stiffer and
added about 10% glass fibers. Lowered the elongation but yeah it got
more rigid but could still flex without damage.
That's PMC-790 from Smooth-On. They sell all sorts of grades. It's
just two-part stuff, but you do need a small vacuum chamber to take the
bubbles out first.
Danny
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Errr, kinda both?
Road shock and vibration should be dampened or things may break. Use
firm mounts like urethene. But due to the torque and the obvious
acceleration and deceleration tendancy of such a conversion. a pair of
radius rods with rod ends, ie no play can be used to eliminate torque
loss. If they are parallel, they will still allow updown movement to
bumps and some lifting on torque so as not to break.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Cor,
Of course this seller is relatively clueless as to the real history of these
vans, but not unusual. Might make a good project for someone as long as the
controller isn't toast.
This reminds me that I have to get over to Mesa and retrieve my Chloride
offboard charger we loaned to Bill Mulgrew for his G-van. Keep forgetting, or
maybe just putting it off. Then again it weighs around 350lbs and its been
around 110 deg here lately. Whew! David Chapman.
Quoting Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 9 passenger GMC van.
>
> Pulled batteries, they were a bit BbbbBbbBBbbb-ulging....
> Spare drive motor, 216V DC system, factory conversion.
-------------------------------------------------
FastQ Communications
Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike,
The local Sunnyvale "dump" called SMaRT-station:
http://www.sunnyvale.ca.gov/Departments/Public+Works/Solid+Waste+and+Recycli
ng/SMaRT+Station/
>From 101 take Lawrence north (or if you are coming from Mountain view side
then get off at Mathilda north, past the Lockheed facilities, this
road becomes Caribbean, make a left at Borregas and bear right to Carl)
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=301+Carl&csz=Sunnyvale+CA
It is really as close to the bay as you can get on public roads.
Following Lawrence north you pass under 237 and the name changes to
Caribbean. Make a right at Borregas and bear right onto Carl.
The scales are at both sides of the street, open 24/7 and it is free
as long as you do not need paperwork (you need to write down your weight
from the LED display next to the scale).
Accuracy is in 20 lbs steps if I recall correctly.
I think there are also scales alongside 880, but they are often closed
and I do not recall where they are exactly, so I do not know if they
are closer to your place.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:34 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
Cor,
What part of town is the scale located in?
Mike
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Forgot that you wanted the weights:
> My 1994 US Electricar S10 weighs 4880 lbs
> including a pack of 26 batteries of almost 71 lbs each,
> which brings the weight sans pack at just a tad over 3000 lbs.
> This includes a 1/4" or so wall thickness aluminum box,
> a 50 kW Hughes AC motor on the manual gearbox, beefed up springs,
> the original long bed (standard cab) and steering column shifter
> (from the automatic) because it is a "single gear" drive,
> a large 700V 250A AC drive with water-cooling through the
> original radiator, Power Steering pump, Vacuum braking pump
> and a foot-long 3-phase 208V 90Amp inductor for the famous
> fast-charging and Vehicle-to-grid that this controller is capable of
> but that I never use because I have no 3-phase 208V service.
>
> Note: because this controller is capable of at least 50kW, it
> could theoretically charge at 50kW but also supply 50kW to the
> grid. However, the AVCON connector cannot sustain the currents,
> even though it is modified to 3 large pins, so the grid power
> has been limited to 20kW.
>
> My EV album listing has the Front and rear axle weights
> (when going over to the recycling station I could simply
> stop at the weighing bridge, make a note of the weight,
> drive forward until only one axle was on the bridge and
> make another note and turn around. Real simple to get to
> know the total and per-axle weights....
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Michael Mohlere
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:07 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
>
>
> Steven -
>
> Thanks for the input!!
>
> Mike
>
>
> >From: "Steven Potter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Subject: RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
> >Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:13:18 -0400
> >
> >Point of reference:
> >
> >I recently put my stock '98 Ranger on a truck scale (pre-conversion;
> >full gas tank) = 3320 lbs.
> >
> >That total included a fiberglass bed cover which I weighted
> separately
> >at 115 lbs.
> >
> >I'm guessing the bed/tailgate must add about 350 lbs or more. My
> >conversion plans at this point include selling the bed and cover;
> >fabricating a light weight, aerodynamic, tilt up flat bed as a
> >replacement.
> >
> >Steven Potter, Toronto
> >
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >On
> > > Behalf Of Michael Mohlere
> > >
> > > Does anyone have the "curb weights" of the various years the S10
> was
> > > produced?? Obviously, I am looking for the "lightest" S10 (reg
> cab,
> >short
> > > bed), and am fairly sure it was not one of the recent
> incarnations of
> >same
> > > -
> >
> >
> >--
> >No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date:
> >7/14/2006
> >
> >
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/fastlane_Blog.html#Hypdef Look here
and see
> what others have to say about GM. GM is doing a lot of damage
control. It's
> not just the electrics. If we could get the big journalists on our
side and
> hopefully get them to see EV's as an answer to the petrol tit it
would be a
> boon for EV's. Lawrence Rhodes..
>
Seeing all that spin means we're seeing GM squirm - no arguments we
haven't seen before and refuted.
Interesting to see the FC vehicle specs - their latest, the Sequel,
does have a lithium ion pack (listed as 65kW, I assume so they can get
by with a smaller FC stack) but no listing of capacity. 140kWh of
Kokam 240Ah cells would weigh 1815lbs and fit with room to spare in a
11"-thick skateboard base (three 10Kpsi storage tanks alone take up
8cu.ft under there).
Like someone else said, if FC vehicles ever get on the road, we'll
have new EV platforms to tinker with after the general public gets
their careless hands on them...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since middle of May my truck was disabled due to a broken DC/DC.
It broke down days before I travelled to the Gulf coast of
Mississippi to volunteer with CityTeam in rebuilding after the
Katrina disaster:
http://cityteam.org/katrina
So as you would expect I had no time to fix the truck and
I was planning to look at it when I came back.
My vacation was already planned to start a week after
returning, so I was not sure that I would have time
but I would see - maybe it was just a fuse...
My company decided that I should be in Taiwan for the
week between the Mississippi trip and my vacation, so
instead of looking at the truck I found myself unpacking,
sleeping, packing and flying again, working 4 1/2 days
and again flying, unpacking, sleeping, packing and flying.
3/4 around the globe in 2 days. Not fun and not a good
feeling in the conservation department.
There is, however no other way to see the family in
The Netherlands again, so we had a fun 2 weeks and
returned end of June to the SF Bay area.
Followed by a week retreat organised by our church.
Now we are talking early July and I have not seen my
colleages for 6 weeks (I'll need to re-introduce
myself) and I have not touched the broken EV.
I wonder what the batteries are doing as they will
soon be sitting 2 months and may be drifting apart
or discharge while time elapses.
After a hectic re-start at work I got to the car last week
to pull the cover off the DC/DC and see what I would find.
Hmmm - looked normal.
Pack voltage was present when the car was started, the
battery was properly connected so 12V was on the output
but there was no signal on the transformer in the DC/DC.
So I pulled the entire DC/DC and since it is integrated
with my controller (bolts to the back of the watercooled
aluminum plate) I had to pull the entire controller.
This truck was not going to drive soon.
After inspecting the DC/DC I noticed that it was a
"prototype" with about 100 patch wires and components
soldered onto the board all over the place, so I did
not want to start fixing it.
I decided I will replace it with a Dell server supply
that is rated for 700W, I only need to reverse engineer
the schematic and adapt it to current limit and 13.5V
output iso 12V.
Since that will take some time, I figured that if I
mounted the controller back in the truck and use a
battery charger on the aux battery when recharging
the pack, then I can deep-cycle the pack and the
aux battery, if I can keep the 12V current limited.
So I re-installed the controller, checked and double-
checked all connections and started the truck.
It moved! But as soon as I wanted to drive to work the
next day and I tried to accellerate, it would fail
and shutdown - already in the driveway.
Huh?
After some experimenting I found that I could creep
at 1 or 2 miles/h but any more and the controller dies.
Also the RPM reported always zero. Hmmmm.
Frustrating - I could make the truck creep forward
through the entire garage, but as soon as I hit the
accelerator it put load on the motor and then died
with a loud bang from the motor and drivetrain which
suddenly lost all torque.
After trying to see if the missing DC/DC control circuit
caused the controller to fault (it did not) and a lot of
other checks (even crawled under the car to check all
wiring) I got the suggestion from Rick to check if I had
damaged anything in the controller while removing the
DC/DC and also measure the RPM encoders.
So I tested the encoders and temp sensors on the motor,
they tested fine, then I decided to follow the wiring to
the PCB which was running through a flexible PCB as a
cable connection between plug and control PCB.
Gotcha!
The +5V trace did not make contact at the PCB connector.
So I soldered a wire between the ends and tried to drive
it. Almost shot through the far wall....
It drives again!
Yeee-haaa!
(If your AC car only creeps forward - check the RPM
encoder feedback to the controller!)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a fwd of a post to a yahoo group about a company building
eVessels, but also about the outfit in the Netherlands manufacturing
the motors... so I thought I would cc to the EVDL `case they
(Creusen) are of interest here also
Thanks
Lock
Toronto
Fwd: African Cats Offers First Fossil Fuel-Free Catamaran
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "lockhughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
This subject is the title for a copy of a press release received
from African Cats BV, dated June 16,2006, and posted on the EVWorld
website here:
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=12205
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/rwrjs
Actually, the press release as posted on the EVWorld web site gets a
mention first in the EVWorld "Insider Perspective" ("...our
publisher's weekly commentary...") dated 20 Jun 2006, which also has
a sorta cool pic of a (planned?) nextgen SolarSailor? seen here:
http://www.evworld.com/general.cfm?section=directory&page=insider
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/ll3tr
(about 2/3 down the page)
Here's the link to the African Cats web site in the Netherlands (I
believe they're originally S.African?:
http://www.africancats.com/default.asp
The African Cats site links again to an evaluation done
by "Multihull Dynamics Inc." ("MDI") on the African Cats FastCat 435
Vector-K model (43' sailing cat), seen here:
http://www.multihulldynamics.com/news_article.asp?articleID=52
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/ncq35
That MDI evaluation is pretty fun. A quote from the head of the page:
"New Multihulls » African Cats FastCat 435 Vector - K
Release Date: 6/28/2006
MDI'S featured New Multihull is the Gideon Goudsmit African Cats -
FastCat 435 Vector - K. We have done a complete MDI Custom Multihull
Evaluation. This envolves Bridgedeck Clearance evaluation,
Performance and Stability results. Along with this we have graphed
the 435 Vector - K against the Trend lines of over 647 multihulls
in our Database. We have displayed 4 graphs with Database Trend
lines for: Sail Area to Displacement ratio (SA/D), Base Speed
(BSpd), Texel Rating (TR) and Stability Speed (SSpd). Cal Markwood,
Engineering Analyst, has written a "Cal's Eval" which narrows the
comparisons further with other boats in the data base with similar
specifications. Finally Press Releases from African Cats is
included with their announcement of the first "Electric Powered
Production Multihull". We think that is pretty cool. "
Anyway, at the bottom of THAT page was the snippet of info that *I*
was interested in - who made the motors! BTW, if you haven't
followed these links, another feature of note is that African Cats
is using Lion batts from Valence. Oh yeah, and the other cool
thing? They are offering their Fastcat 435 Vector-K model of cat as
either battery electric version or diseasal version AT THE SAME
PRICE.
Anyway, neither the MDI evaluation or the African Cats Press Release
shown on the MDI page mention the maker of the motor, but in the
tiniest print under a link to the web sites for African Cats and
Valence is this link:
http://www.creusen.nl/
And that's Creusen, from the Netherlands also. From the English
pages on their site:
"Creusen Electro-Mechanische Industrie in Roermond, the Netherlands,
produces modern, high-tech 'applied motor technology' and 'metal
finishing products'. Within 'applied motor technology', Creusen has
opted for a niche role in the world of power transmission, a
preference resulting from the original core activity, the
development and production of electric motors. Creusen Metal
Finishing Products are top quality professional grinding and
polishing machines."
Can't tell whether they started out making the grinders and
polishers or the motors, but there ya go <smile>...
More from their site:
"Creusen motors are fully developed and manufactured in its own
premises under constant quality control. This makes Creusen so
unique. Both the standard and customer-specific motors are wound in-
house."
"Creusen is the right address for AC, DC (permanent magnet, shunt,
serial or compound wound) and synchronous servo motors in IEC
construction sizes 25-132. The motors can withstand operating
voltages of 12V to 600V."
So it seems Creusen is building 9.2Kw 120v DC brushless and
watertight motors for African Cats, each weighing 45Kg...
>From the May 6 Press Release from African Cats, reproduced on the
MDI evaluation page, African Cats says also that the system will do
regen under sail up to 60Ah.
They claim "3hrs of motoring at 50% power", and a top speed under
power for this 5+ ton disp, 41'waterline cat of 8 knots.
Another stat they quote: "In order to motor for one hour, 6 hours of
sailing over 5 knots is needed..." (while regen'ing.)
Hope this info is of interest, and all here are well!
Tks
Lock Hughes
--- End forwarded message ---
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Not an S10, but another point of reference.
I had my 1965 Datsun Pickup weighed on a truck scale after I bought it.
= 2180 lbs.
It has a large step bumper that I will replace with a smaller 2 piece
bumper that was also offered.
That should save ~ 40 lbs.
Striped down weight ready for conversion should be ~ 1700 lbs.
With ~ 750 lbs of batteries, final converted weight should be ~ 2900
lbs.
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Potter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 6:13 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
Point of reference:
I recently put my stock '98 Ranger on a truck scale (pre-conversion;
full gas tank) = 3320 lbs.
That total included a fiberglass bed cover which I weighted separately
at 115 lbs.
I'm guessing the bed/tailgate must add about 350 lbs or more. My
conversion plans at this point include selling the bed and cover;
fabricating a light weight, aerodynamic, tilt up flat bed as a
replacement.
Steven Potter, Toronto
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Michael Mohlere
>
> Does anyone have the "curb weights" of the various years the S10 was
> produced?? Obviously, I am looking for the "lightest" S10 (reg cab,
short
> bed), and am fairly sure it was not one of the recent incarnations of
same
> -
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date:
7/14/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It has also been discussed on here before, and I think the feeling was
that it didn't add up.
Check the archives as I think it was about 12 months ago.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lock Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, 19 July 2006 11:07 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Aluminium battery 3000 cycles - please no oilys!!!
This looks discouraging... seen here, a post from 2004:
http://forum.evworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=406&;
or tinyURL:
http://tinyurl.com/n39cm
Björn, Ingenjör (engineer) | 2004-09-22 | 15:19
Answer: new issue of shares Europositron
I to visited their road-show and I was NOT impressed! I can hardy tell
what to start carping about, but I had a hundred objections when I went
from there. To begin with, the inventor did not seem to fully grasp all
electrical concepts, something he really should do if he had come with
something as fantastic as this superbattery. Then all the bullshit about
macromolecules and nanochemistry (haha!!). The description about how the
battery worked was the most muddled popular "science" I have ever heard.
Furthermore, the man gave strange answers to simple questions of general
nature. For example, when asked about the voltage of the battery, he
answered "the same as in the wall socket, about 200 volts in Europe and
about a 100 in the USA. If the man had been a serious person, he had
instead spoken about the cell voltage and that the battery consists of
cells in serial connection to make a battery with a suitable voltage
(any) for the application in which you may want to use it. Furthermore,
the economist character from Delecta seemed to have no idea at all of
what he was talking about (the inventor did not object when the man
bursted into folly), but he was of course an economist...........mostly
reminded me of Percy Nilegård (well-known domestic swedish comedian). I
haven´t investigated how much energy it is possible to store in a
certain amount of 100% ionized aluminium, but consider the following: If
the man has succeded in making each of the parts work individually, why
not assemble them into a prototype? Batteries are not complicated
constructions and clean rooms should really not be needed to test
whether the battery is working or not (even with a fraction of the
performance they claim). The battery scaleable and could be built in all
sizes as cheaply as todays lead-acid batteries. Therefore a prototype
the size of a matchbox should hardly cost anything to make, even if it
was 500 times more expensive than a battery in serial production. The
least you could ask before spending several millions on this abortive
enterprize is a simple test to make sure it is working. I can bet 10 000
krona that this is a hoax but not one single krona on Europositron
--- Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
>
> Tom Watson wrote:
> > Hi all...
> >
> >
> >>Proposed Aluminum Battery Boost to electric vehicles Electric car of
> >>General Motors, EV 1 uses 736kg batteries giving
> >
> > max. >range 145 km without recharge. A battery of 60 kg made with
> >
> >>Europositron technology allows EV 1 max. range 870 km without
> >>recharge.
> >
> >
> > This is very, very interesting given the weight to energy ratio.
> > http://www.europositron.com/en/techniques.html
> >
> > I sure would like to see someone other than an bastard have a
> > controlling share!!! I'm wondering if we can pool our resources
> into
> > accomplishing this?? 3 questions that need knoledgeable input
> are...
> >
> > 1. Has anyone ever heard of this guy? and Is he trustworthy?
> > http://www.europositron.com/en/partanen.html
> >
> > 2. Does anyone among us know or can give some insight into the
> > viability of this battery???
> > http://www.europositron.com/en/background.html
> >
> > 3. Is there any financial wizards among us that can comment on the
> > Shares setup of this venture? What would "we" need to have a
> > controlling interest. http://www.europositron.com/en/index.html
> >
> > thanks
> > Tom
> >
> > ---------------***------------
> > http://www.europositron.com/en/manufacturing.html
> >
> > They claim 20 times the energy density of current batteries. We
> have
> > Firefly, Li Ion and now Aluminium with normal lead style charging.
> > When will we see a new range record? Current record is over 1000
> > miles on a charge. That was Zinc technology. I can hardly wait.
> > Lawrence Rhodes.......
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Cor,
Those scales are just 4 blocks from work. But 28 miles round trip from
home. My range is 14 miles under ideal conditions. Hmmm. I checked
across the outlets at work and found 208vac. Maybe it's time to rid the
truck of the 1300+ lbs of dead lead in the box. That might effect the
range a tiny bit ;)
The fact that Steve and you have the same batterys will make for an
interesting comparison. I guess it's literally a race to the death, of
your packs. Last one there wins. The other big difference will be how
low the soc goes for each of you on average. In the back of my mind I
suspect when I'm done experimenting that I'll have the same pack and
box config as you have.
Mike
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> The local Sunnyvale "dump" called SMaRT-station:
>
http://www.sunnyvale.ca.gov/Departments/Public+Works/Solid+Waste+and+Recycli
> ng/SMaRT+Station/
>
> >From 101 take Lawrence north (or if you are coming from Mountain
> view side
> then get off at Mathilda north, past the Lockheed facilities, this
> road becomes Caribbean, make a left at Borregas and bear right to
> Carl)
> http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=301+Carl&csz=Sunnyvale+CA
> It is really as close to the bay as you can get on public roads.
>
> Following Lawrence north you pass under 237 and the name changes to
> Caribbean. Make a right at Borregas and bear right onto Carl.
> The scales are at both sides of the street, open 24/7 and it is free
> as long as you do not need paperwork (you need to write down your
> weight
> from the LED display next to the scale).
> Accuracy is in 20 lbs steps if I recall correctly.
>
> I think there are also scales alongside 880, but they are often
> closed
> and I do not recall where they are exactly, so I do not know if they
> are closer to your place.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:34 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
>
>
> Cor,
>
> What part of town is the scale located in?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Michael,
> >
> > Forgot that you wanted the weights:
> > My 1994 US Electricar S10 weighs 4880 lbs
> > including a pack of 26 batteries of almost 71 lbs each,
> > which brings the weight sans pack at just a tad over 3000 lbs.
> > This includes a 1/4" or so wall thickness aluminum box,
> > a 50 kW Hughes AC motor on the manual gearbox, beefed up springs,
> > the original long bed (standard cab) and steering column shifter
> > (from the automatic) because it is a "single gear" drive,
> > a large 700V 250A AC drive with water-cooling through the
> > original radiator, Power Steering pump, Vacuum braking pump
> > and a foot-long 3-phase 208V 90Amp inductor for the famous
> > fast-charging and Vehicle-to-grid that this controller is capable
> of
> > but that I never use because I have no 3-phase 208V service.
> >
> > Note: because this controller is capable of at least 50kW, it
> > could theoretically charge at 50kW but also supply 50kW to the
> > grid. However, the AVCON connector cannot sustain the currents,
> > even though it is modified to 3 large pins, so the grid power
> > has been limited to 20kW.
> >
> > My EV album listing has the Front and rear axle weights
> > (when going over to the recycling station I could simply
> > stop at the weighing bridge, make a note of the weight,
> > drive forward until only one axle was on the bridge and
> > make another note and turn around. Real simple to get to
> > know the total and per-axle weights....
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Michael Mohlere
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:07 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
> >
> >
> > Steven -
> >
> > Thanks for the input!!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > >From: "Steven Potter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > >Subject: RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
> > >Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:13:18 -0400
> > >
> > >Point of reference:
> > >
> > >I recently put my stock '98 Ranger on a truck scale
> (pre-conversion;
> > >full gas tank) = 3320 lbs.
> > >
> > >That total included a fiberglass bed cover which I weighted
> > separately
> > >at 115 lbs.
> > >
> > >I'm guessing the bed/tailgate must add about 350 lbs or more. My
> > >conversion plans at this point include selling the bed and cover;
> > >fabricating a light weight, aerodynamic, tilt up flat bed as a
> > >replacement.
> > >
> > >Steven Potter, Toronto
> > >
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >On
> > > > Behalf Of Michael Mohlere
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone have the "curb weights" of the various years the
> S10
> > was
> > > > produced?? Obviously, I am looking for the "lightest" S10 (reg
> > cab,
> > >short
> > > > bed), and am fairly sure it was not one of the recent
> > incarnations of
> > >same
> > > > -
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > >Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date:
> > >7/14/2006
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Here's to the crazy ones.
> The misfits.
> The rebels.
> The troublemakers.
> The round pegs in the square holes.
> The ones who see things differently
> The ones that change the world!!
>
> www.RotorDesign.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Way to go! Glad to hear it was just a bad connection. Rest up from your
adventures so you can get some miles on that pack! Inquiring wallets
want to know ;)
Mike
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Since middle of May my truck was disabled due to a broken DC/DC.
> It broke down days before I travelled to the Gulf coast of
> Mississippi to volunteer with CityTeam in rebuilding after the
> Katrina disaster:
> http://cityteam.org/katrina
> So as you would expect I had no time to fix the truck and
> I was planning to look at it when I came back.
>
> My vacation was already planned to start a week after
> returning, so I was not sure that I would have time
> but I would see - maybe it was just a fuse...
> My company decided that I should be in Taiwan for the
> week between the Mississippi trip and my vacation, so
> instead of looking at the truck I found myself unpacking,
> sleeping, packing and flying again, working 4 1/2 days
> and again flying, unpacking, sleeping, packing and flying.
> 3/4 around the globe in 2 days. Not fun and not a good
> feeling in the conservation department.
>
> There is, however no other way to see the family in
> The Netherlands again, so we had a fun 2 weeks and
> returned end of June to the SF Bay area.
> Followed by a week retreat organised by our church.
> Now we are talking early July and I have not seen my
> colleages for 6 weeks (I'll need to re-introduce
> myself) and I have not touched the broken EV.
> I wonder what the batteries are doing as they will
> soon be sitting 2 months and may be drifting apart
> or discharge while time elapses.
>
> After a hectic re-start at work I got to the car last week
> to pull the cover off the DC/DC and see what I would find.
> Hmmm - looked normal.
> Pack voltage was present when the car was started, the
> battery was properly connected so 12V was on the output
> but there was no signal on the transformer in the DC/DC.
> So I pulled the entire DC/DC and since it is integrated
> with my controller (bolts to the back of the watercooled
> aluminum plate) I had to pull the entire controller.
> This truck was not going to drive soon.
>
> After inspecting the DC/DC I noticed that it was a
> "prototype" with about 100 patch wires and components
> soldered onto the board all over the place, so I did
> not want to start fixing it.
> I decided I will replace it with a Dell server supply
> that is rated for 700W, I only need to reverse engineer
> the schematic and adapt it to current limit and 13.5V
> output iso 12V.
> Since that will take some time, I figured that if I
> mounted the controller back in the truck and use a
> battery charger on the aux battery when recharging
> the pack, then I can deep-cycle the pack and the
> aux battery, if I can keep the 12V current limited.
> So I re-installed the controller, checked and double-
> checked all connections and started the truck.
> It moved! But as soon as I wanted to drive to work the
> next day and I tried to accellerate, it would fail
> and shutdown - already in the driveway.
> Huh?
> After some experimenting I found that I could creep
> at 1 or 2 miles/h but any more and the controller dies.
> Also the RPM reported always zero. Hmmmm.
> Frustrating - I could make the truck creep forward
> through the entire garage, but as soon as I hit the
> accelerator it put load on the motor and then died
> with a loud bang from the motor and drivetrain which
> suddenly lost all torque.
>
> After trying to see if the missing DC/DC control circuit
> caused the controller to fault (it did not) and a lot of
> other checks (even crawled under the car to check all
> wiring) I got the suggestion from Rick to check if I had
> damaged anything in the controller while removing the
> DC/DC and also measure the RPM encoders.
> So I tested the encoders and temp sensors on the motor,
> they tested fine, then I decided to follow the wiring to
> the PCB which was running through a flexible PCB as a
> cable connection between plug and control PCB.
>
> Gotcha!
> The +5V trace did not make contact at the PCB connector.
> So I soldered a wire between the ends and tried to drive
> it. Almost shot through the far wall....
> It drives again!
> Yeee-haaa!
>
> (If your AC car only creeps forward - check the RPM
> encoder feedback to the controller!)
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Regen on a sailboat. How cool is that!
Mike
--- Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is a fwd of a post to a yahoo group about a company building
> eVessels, but also about the outfit in the Netherlands manufacturing
> the motors... so I thought I would cc to the EVDL `case they
> (Creusen) are of interest here also
> Thanks
> Lock
> Toronto
>
>
> Fwd: African Cats Offers First Fossil Fuel-Free Catamaran
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "lockhughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> This subject is the title for a copy of a press release received
> from African Cats BV, dated June 16,2006, and posted on the EVWorld
> website here:
> http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=12205
> or tinyURL here:
> http://tinyurl.com/rwrjs
>
> Actually, the press release as posted on the EVWorld web site gets a
> mention first in the EVWorld "Insider Perspective" ("...our
> publisher's weekly commentary...") dated 20 Jun 2006, which also has
> a sorta cool pic of a (planned?) nextgen SolarSailor? seen here:
> http://www.evworld.com/general.cfm?section=directory&page=insider
> or tinyURL here:
> http://tinyurl.com/ll3tr
> (about 2/3 down the page)
>
> Here's the link to the African Cats web site in the Netherlands (I
> believe they're originally S.African?:
> http://www.africancats.com/default.asp
>
> The African Cats site links again to an evaluation done
> by "Multihull Dynamics Inc." ("MDI") on the African Cats FastCat 435
> Vector-K model (43' sailing cat), seen here:
> http://www.multihulldynamics.com/news_article.asp?articleID=52
> or tinyURL here:
> http://tinyurl.com/ncq35
>
> That MDI evaluation is pretty fun. A quote from the head of the page:
> "New Multihulls » African Cats FastCat 435 Vector - K
> Release Date: 6/28/2006
> MDI'S featured New Multihull is the Gideon Goudsmit African Cats -
> FastCat 435 Vector - K. We have done a complete MDI Custom Multihull
> Evaluation. This envolves Bridgedeck Clearance evaluation,
> Performance and Stability results. Along with this we have graphed
> the 435 Vector - K against the Trend lines of over 647 multihulls
> in our Database. We have displayed 4 graphs with Database Trend
> lines for: Sail Area to Displacement ratio (SA/D), Base Speed
> (BSpd), Texel Rating (TR) and Stability Speed (SSpd). Cal Markwood,
> Engineering Analyst, has written a "Cal's Eval" which narrows the
> comparisons further with other boats in the data base with similar
> specifications. Finally Press Releases from African Cats is
> included with their announcement of the first "Electric Powered
> Production Multihull". We think that is pretty cool. "
>
> Anyway, at the bottom of THAT page was the snippet of info that *I*
> was interested in - who made the motors! BTW, if you haven't
> followed these links, another feature of note is that African Cats
> is using Lion batts from Valence. Oh yeah, and the other cool
> thing? They are offering their Fastcat 435 Vector-K model of cat as
> either battery electric version or diseasal version AT THE SAME
> PRICE.
>
> Anyway, neither the MDI evaluation or the African Cats Press Release
> shown on the MDI page mention the maker of the motor, but in the
> tiniest print under a link to the web sites for African Cats and
> Valence is this link:
> http://www.creusen.nl/
>
> And that's Creusen, from the Netherlands also. From the English
> pages on their site:
>
> "Creusen Electro-Mechanische Industrie in Roermond, the Netherlands,
> produces modern, high-tech 'applied motor technology' and 'metal
> finishing products'. Within 'applied motor technology', Creusen has
> opted for a niche role in the world of power transmission, a
> preference resulting from the original core activity, the
> development and production of electric motors. Creusen Metal
> Finishing Products are top quality professional grinding and
> polishing machines."
>
> Can't tell whether they started out making the grinders and
> polishers or the motors, but there ya go <smile>...
>
> More from their site:
> "Creusen motors are fully developed and manufactured in its own
> premises under constant quality control. This makes Creusen so
> unique. Both the standard and customer-specific motors are wound in-
> house."
>
> "Creusen is the right address for AC, DC (permanent magnet, shunt,
> serial or compound wound) and synchronous servo motors in IEC
> construction sizes 25-132. The motors can withstand operating
> voltages of 12V to 600V."
>
> So it seems Creusen is building 9.2Kw 120v DC brushless and
> watertight motors for African Cats, each weighing 45Kg...
>
> >From the May 6 Press Release from African Cats, reproduced on the
> MDI evaluation page, African Cats says also that the system will do
> regen under sail up to 60Ah.
>
> They claim "3hrs of motoring at 50% power", and a top speed under
> power for this 5+ ton disp, 41'waterline cat of 8 knots.
>
> Another stat they quote: "In order to motor for one hour, 6 hours of
> sailing over 5 knots is needed..." (while regen'ing.)
>
> Hope this info is of interest, and all here are well!
>
> Tks
>
> Lock Hughes
>
> --- End forwarded message ---
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The USE vehicles have the same characteristics you just described, but
go 3-7k miles on a pack. They came with Hawkers. A good battery. The
inverter stops driving below about 10.5v. The charger puts out only 2.5
amps on 120vac and 6 amps on 240vac. Very conservative charge rates.
Most people have never charged their USE vehicles on 240vac. I'm the
only one that I know of that uses 240vac on a USE.
If the Solectria inverter lets the batterys get down to 10.5v each,
then it's letting the batterys discharge far too low for a lead acid
pack to give good life. So that spec is not helpful to the battery
life.
4-6 years of pack life makes it unclear how many miles that is. My
truck has had 2 packs in 10 years. So 5 years per pack. But only 3-5k
miles per pack. Please clarify this point. I think a poll in the
Solectria group that I am a member of, might provide interesting
results.
It's an easy guess that they don't go far on a pack with the same
technology as the USE vehicles. I like them too. In fact I keep my eyes
open for one up for sale.
Mike
--- David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 12 Jul 2006 at 16:36, Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> > That
> > car has no BMS. Therefore the battery's are doomed from the start.
>
> I must disagree. Solectria put quite a bit of effort into designing
> a
> battery which doesn't need a BMS to give good service. The secrets
> are
> conservative charging, careful use, and high quality, consistent
> batteries
> (gel modules from Sonnenschein and East Penn). These batteries,
> being
> extremely acid-starved, enforce an 80% DOD limit, which also extends
> cycle
> life. The inverter is programmed to never let them fall below an
> average of
> 10.5v per 12v module, helping to prevent overdischarge.
>
> No doubt fitting a BMS would allow them to give even better service,
> but at
> considerable additional cost (in fact I think a few Forces were
> fitted with
> Badicheqs). However, Forces fitted with the above battery and no BMS
>
> routinely give 4-6 years of service before the battery requires
> replacement.
>
> All that said, one should not expect more than about 30 - 35 miles of
>
> practical range on a Force. Unless the car is fitted with a battery
> thermal
> management system, winter range will be appreciably lower.
>
> Forces are best used in flat or mildly rolling territory. I'm not
> sure they
> really have enough continuous power on tap for long hills. I think
> the year
> you're looking at has a drive which is rated 34kW max, 22kW
> continuously.
> This is based on the Brusa-manufactured AMC325 inverter and GT20T
> motor.
>
> Forces are beautifully-executed, clean, quite reliable conversions,
> though
> there have been some problems with the NLG4 chargers, which as a
> consequence
> should be used on 120 volts only as an emergency measure. They drive
> very
> nicely with smooth, seamless regeneration. Around town they are
> reasonably
> peppy, comparable to 70s-vintage gas powered subcompacts, but they
> are not
> racers or mountain goats.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/19/06, Tim Ireland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It has also been discussed on here before, and I think the feeling was
that it didn't add up.
Check the archives as I think it was about 12 months ago.
Actually, July 2004!
--- End Message ---
