EV Digest 5678
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) RE: EVLN($11k for an nEV?)
by "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) WKTEC in CT!
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: S10 model curb weight(s)
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Clutchless S10
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EVLN($11k for an nEV?)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Lightly ZORCHED Motor
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Clutchless S10
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Lightly ZORCHED Motor
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Lightly ZORCHED Motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: S10 model curb weight(s)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Freedom EV? status
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EV's dissed on Blue Collar TV (BCT)
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Funky Optimas
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The greatest hurdle EV's face with the general public (common man) is image.
EV's are type cast as slow, dumpy, inconvenient. Their first mental image is
golf cart. When I mention to anyone (general public) that I am converting my
Fiero to electric, they gasp with horror and tell me that will ruin it.
I work at a TV station and have learned that opinion is far stronger than
fact or truth and for TV news sales you must follow public opinion or your
ratings go down.
I believe the primary benefit of the Tesla is to help break the general
public's opinion that EV's are slow, dumpy and inconvenient. They don't have
to
buy one to have their opinion tweaked. But having their opinion tweaked will
certainly help in their acceptance of EV's when the family sedan is produced.
I did a google search and found that Corvette out sold Prius by about four
times last year. It's the opinion we have to work on.
Just my two volts worth,
Ken
In a message dated 7/21/2006 10:05:23 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Tesla, Venturi Fetish and TZero are not made for the common man. It is
not intended to be practical.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Powers
Sent: July 21, 2006 6:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
I read all the posts about the Tesla with mixed emotion. True, it seems
like a very nice EV, one of the best I have seen. I would go as far as to
say it is over-designed, 0 - 60 in 4 sec, 250 mile range. Who can honestly
say that they really need a car like that. And, then I heard about the
price, which of course I expected to be quite high. In fact, it is. I have
heard $80k, and even $90k from a different source. Maybe they were trying
to make a point that a high performance EV can be made. But, we already
knew that.
At the same time, what they created is a car that to the common man might
as well be made out of "unobtanium." I'd say 99% of the people on this list
can't afford that car. I'd say 99.99% of the general population can't
afford that car, and if they could, they wouldn't buy it. Why not? Those
people, the ones with the money, are smart business people and they don't
want a hassle. They want a car backed by a major auto maker. Something
like a Lexus, Mercedes, BMW ... I truthfully don't see them buying the car.
There are the select few super rich who are also into the environment or
unique cars. Those few may buy one. I expect that I will never see one on
the road in my daily travels. And, I suspect that most of you never will
either. So, what was gained? Some good publicity, sure. Someone proved a
point, sure. Did it actually help get the common man any closer to driving
an EV, no. I have to say no. If anything, it makes people think that EVs
are super expensive. Still not pratical for the common man, people like
me.
I've stated before what I think (this is my opinion, so feel free to
disagree) the common man is looking for, and still no one seems to be
pursuing that market.
1. Late model conversion - doesn't even have to be new
2. Sustainable - parts available for at least 10 years
3. Reasonable comforts, power brakes, AC
4. Automatic - the common man doesn't like to shift - it is true
5. Performance similar to a typical 4 cyl car - Corolla / Civic (better
than a Force)
6. Cost - if well reconditioned, about $12 - $18k. Quality of an 8-10
year old used car - which would be easier to market - $8500 - $10k.
7. Battery pack availability in the future and it can't cost a fortune. I
think as far as the common man goes, Li Ion is out. NiMH is still an
option. Even decent lead acid is OK.
8. As far as battery maintenance goes, the common man doesn't want to
have to water them.
9. The car needs to be smart with a BMS because the common man doesn't
like hassles.
10. Range. A real world range - in real world traffic - with hills and
stop and go - 80 miles. 80 miles is more than sufficient. If it is a
parallel hybrid as well, it could have a 25 mile range in EV mode as long as
it has similar performance in EV and hybrid ICE mode.
11. It has to be backed by a major auto manufacturer so that people can
sleep well at night knowing that someone will be there if it breaks and
needs repair.
12. Options of 2 door or 4 door.
I think the above could be done, and a successful business could be
created catering to that market.
What do I think will happen long term? Well, I think one of the major
auto makers will come out with a plug in hybrid dual purpose EV and ICE car.
I think the car will do at least 25 miles in EV mode and will go 0-60 like
the current small hybrids. I think it will be freeway capable. I think it
will be Toyota, and I think it will happen within the next 3 - 5 years. I
also think the common man will buy that car. I think that like me, he / she
commutes < 25 miles on work days and can run all electric monday - friday.
And, I think if he / she needs a little extra range one night or on a
weekend he or she will go and fuel it up. I think it is pratical and a
decent approach to clocking some real EV miles. Everyone that I know who
has an EV also has an ICE car. If you put them in the same chasis, you only
have to register, insure, store, and maintain one car. I see a real
advantage to this. Sure, I want all electric cars on the road, I bought 3
of them you know.
And, I even started building a 4th. I am an EV guy, don't get me wrong.
But, to get them on the road, I think we need to take that intermediate
step. This is my opinion, so feel free to disagree.
In the meantime, I guess I'll just have to keep waiting until someon sells
their 10 year old conversion with a 80 mile real world range for $8500.
Trust me, anyone with that car, isn't selling it. And if they were, it
wouldn't be $8500. I do remember though when you could buy a used Force for
about $4000 and a Jet Electra for <$1500 and of course my first EV for only
$600. I paid about $3600 for the ETV-1, not running. But, now that has all
changed. I guess I'll just have to dream on thinking I can still get that
dream car for $8500.
Still dreaming,
Steve
Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What I saw when putting the pictures of the Lotus Elise 3 and the Tesla
side by side was that the CHASSIS seems to be identical, but the styling of
the panels is quite different, so it seems to be "based on" the Elise 3
(Federal).
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/pictures/edatabase/viewpicture.php?id=
116&image=chassis.jpg&title=chassis&album=laautoshow03
and from the unveiling pictures:
http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/autoblog/hirezpics/IMG_6894.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/20/tesla-roadster-unveiling-in-santa-monica/
Some striking details ARE the same, such as the striplights next to the
wheels on the fenders.
But the design of the hood, the lines on the side, the scoop, a lot of
things are different, so it is not really a look-a-like.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX:
+1-610-423-5743 Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of nikki
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
Apparently the Tesla is actually a Lotus - I have just been listening to the
BBC radio station in Norfolk and they just mentioned it in the news!
Regards
Nikki
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The GEM is 72 volt, six 12 volt batteries.
Probably a typo or miscommunication.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of gail donaldson lucas
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 1:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: EVLN($11k for an nEV?)
Isn't 360 rather high voltage for a GEM? I can't picture how you could fit
that many batteries into a car that size, or where you could buy that many
batteries for $530.
Gail
>
> The GEM is powered by 360-volt set of batteries and is charged at
> the police department. Charging the battery will cost about $4 a
> month, Huff said. A set of batteries, which Huff said he expects
> to last two seasons, cost about $530.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
WKTEC should be playing in CT (according to their site.) It's listed as playing
at the following
locations;
BETHEL - BETHEL CINEMA FOUR, 7/14/06
HARTFORD - CINEMA CITY FOUR, 7/14/06
NEW HAVEN - CRITERION CINEMAS, 7/21/06
NORWALK - GARDEN CINEMA, 7/14/06
STAMFORD - AVON THEATRE FILM CENTER, 7/14/06
See you there!
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info!!! I have trouble containing my "engineer, want hard
data" impulses. My original thought was that the info for the curb weights
of the various years and models of S10s would be readily available.....what
I have found is that the numbers appear to vary quite a bit from source to
source.
BTW, regarding "long bed" vs. "short bed" - is it JUST the bed that is
longer, or is the actual frame of the vehicle longer as well?? I would
assume just the bed, but you know what they say about assumptions.
Here is what I got off of internetautoguide.com
Curb weight is defined as the weight of a fueled vehicle (full gas tank)
with standard equipment and NO passengers. I assumed the data was for the
Reg Cab short bed, although it was a bit ambiguous at times.
S10 Year Curb Weight (kg) Curb Weight (lbs)
95 1314 2896
96 1318 2905
97 1406 3099
98 1396 3077
99 1471 3243
00 1412 3112
01 1368 3015
02 1451 3198
03 1368 3015
04 1852 4083
Obviously, the numbers from 99 and 04 look suspicious - perhaps for the
extended cab (crew cab?) with long bed instead of for the short bed.
auto.consumerguide.com lists the curb weights for the reg. cab., short bed
S10s as
90-93 2635 lbs
94-04 2822 lbs
Appears to be overly generalized, to say the least.
Mike
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: S10 model curb weight(s)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:49:43 -0700
My S-10 was originally a 94 ElectriCar that had been stripped of all its AC
components except a water pump and the original alum battery box. The door
sticker has the GVWR at
Front 2500
Rear 2900
Total 5400
As changed by US Electric car in 94.
So they put in an extra rear leaf spring to compensate for the batteries.
I weighed the truck with the Transmission, alum battery box out and the bed
off (as I plan to keep it off and make an aerodynamic back). I used the
'scale and pole method' and got
Front End 1000
Rear End 896
Total 1896
I figure that I will put in
Transmission 200
Metal bat box (20 bats) 150
Alum Bat Box (10 bats) 90
Batteries 30x72 1980
9" ADC motor 175
Hart Charger 40
Zilla 1KHV Controller 30
Me 250
Misc 100
----------------------------------
Total 2915
Grand Total 4811
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
Posted 9am 7/19
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Craig,
FYI, Paul Wallace has an S10 EV that didn't have a clutch when he first
bought it. After driving it without a clutch for a while he went through
some effort to install a clutch. His main complaint was the difficulty
when shifting, especially downshifting.
Ralph
Mueller, Craig M writes:
>
> I am working on an S10 conversion and would like to eliminate the
> clutch. What short of coupling have folks used to accomplish this?
>
> - Craig Mueller
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
gail donaldson lucas wrote:
Isn't 360 rather high voltage for a GEM? I can't picture how you could fit
that many batteries into a car that size, or where you could buy that many
batteries for $530.
I think it is a 72v system. They probably meant a 360 *poind* battery pack.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
Steve Powers wrote:
250 mile range. Who can honestly say that they really need a car like
that.
The key is in the 'honest', as one of the
comments I read about the Tesla that the range
was so limited - "give me a car that does 500
miles and it becomes interesting." or along those lines.
It appears that nay-sayers always want double the amount
that is available.
When EVs did 50 miles, they needed 100.
When they did 80 they needed at least 150
Then the RAV4 EV hit 120 so they needed 250
Now this car delivers 250 so only at 500 is it a feasible car.
Some people simply never get it.
When you don't want to do something, any excuse is as good as another.
Most people don't want an electric car -- they are happy with what they
have. They invent excuses. They blame high gas prices on the oil
companies, the arabs, or whoever; certainly not their beloved car! For
that would require them to accept some *personal* responsibility for
their actions, and that the (gasp!) change their minds and behavior!
It is easier for such people to insult and poke fun of EVs than to
change their minds.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need a couple springs for the brush holder on a 8" Warfield motor.
I finished installing the last 2 Orbital batteries in my E-Fiero and
upgraded the cabling to 3/0 cable. Woo-Hoo The car runs really well. BOO-HOO I
succeeded in a ARKY SPARKY shift from second to third gear at about 5000 RPM.
(boy I hate that zorch sound) I was relatively lucky. The Zorch Arky Sparky
was
only a brush spring being vaporized. The comm still looks OK and the brush
holder didn't seem to be hurt. I am planning on just replacing the brush spring
& it's neighbor and finishing out the summer before pulling the motor.
Does anyone on the list have a couple brush springs they can sell me? The
springs fit a WARP 8" or a Advanced DC 8" motor.
Thanks
Pat Sweeney
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 21, 2006, at 3:05 PM, Mueller, Craig M wrote:
I am working on an S10 conversion and would like to eliminate the
clutch. What short of coupling have folks used to accomplish this?
I used a Ruland shaft coupler <http://www.ruland.com/clc.html> to
connect to an aircooled VW input shaft. I see they now list the maximum
rpm as 3000... I've violated that *many* times:-)
The input shaft on the S10 needs to be well supported. Even a worn out
pilot bearing can damage most standard RWD gearboxes. The common
configuration has only 1 bearing supporting the input shaft inside the
tranny. I'm not sure that supporting it only by the splines on the
other end is a good idea. I think you would want to locate it by the
input pilot.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pat, we have those in stock for $3.81 each at EV Parts, www.evparts.com.
Here is the direct link:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=504&product_id=1155
If you prefer used ones I may be able to find a couple in my shop I could
send you. Let me know off list.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 9:09 AM
Subject: Lightly ZORCHED Motor
I need a couple springs for the brush holder on a 8" Warfield motor.
I finished installing the last 2 Orbital batteries in my E-Fiero and
upgraded the cabling to 3/0 cable. Woo-Hoo The car runs really well.
BOO-HOO I
succeeded in a ARKY SPARKY shift from second to third gear at about 5000
RPM.
(boy I hate that zorch sound) I was relatively lucky. The Zorch Arky
Sparky was
only a brush spring being vaporized. The comm still looks OK and the brush
holder didn't seem to be hurt. I am planning on just replacing the brush
spring
& it's neighbor and finishing out the summer before pulling the motor.
Does anyone on the list have a couple brush springs they can sell me?
The
springs fit a WARP 8" or a Advanced DC 8" motor.
Thanks
Pat Sweeney
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken, you are right on. It takes a long time and a lot of press to remove
this stereotype. At NEDRA we have been working on it for almost ten years
now. We have been on TV and in magazines all over the world and still people
do not know that EVs can have performance. It takes press from many angles
to bring about this change. The press that the Tesla Roadster is generating
is another brick in the wall. I do feel we are getting nearer the time when
EV awareness will be common place.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA Marketing Director
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
The greatest hurdle EV's face with the general public (common man) is
image.
EV's are type cast as slow, dumpy, inconvenient. Their first mental image
is
golf cart. When I mention to anyone (general public) that I am converting
my
Fiero to electric, they gasp with horror and tell me that will ruin it.
I work at a TV station and have learned that opinion is far stronger than
fact or truth and for TV news sales you must follow public opinion or your
ratings go down.
I believe the primary benefit of the Tesla is to help break the general
public's opinion that EV's are slow, dumpy and inconvenient. They don't
have to
buy one to have their opinion tweaked. But having their opinion tweaked
will
certainly help in their acceptance of EV's when the family sedan is
produced.
I did a google search and found that Corvette out sold Prius by about four
times last year. It's the opinion we have to work on.
Just my two volts worth,
Ken
In a message dated 7/21/2006 10:05:23 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Tesla, Venturi Fetish and TZero are not made for the common man. It is
not intended to be practical.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Powers
Sent: July 21, 2006 6:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
I read all the posts about the Tesla with mixed emotion. True, it seems
like a very nice EV, one of the best I have seen. I would go as far as to
say it is over-designed, 0 - 60 in 4 sec, 250 mile range. Who can
honestly
say that they really need a car like that. And, then I heard about the
price, which of course I expected to be quite high. In fact, it is. I
have
heard $80k, and even $90k from a different source. Maybe they were trying
to make a point that a high performance EV can be made. But, we already
knew that.
At the same time, what they created is a car that to the common man might
as well be made out of "unobtanium." I'd say 99% of the people on this
list
can't afford that car. I'd say 99.99% of the general population can't
afford that car, and if they could, they wouldn't buy it. Why not? Those
people, the ones with the money, are smart business people and they don't
want a hassle. They want a car backed by a major auto maker. Something
like a Lexus, Mercedes, BMW ... I truthfully don't see them buying the
car.
There are the select few super rich who are also into the environment or
unique cars. Those few may buy one. I expect that I will never see one
on
the road in my daily travels. And, I suspect that most of you never will
either. So, what was gained? Some good publicity, sure. Someone proved
a
point, sure. Did it actually help get the common man any closer to
driving
an EV, no. I have to say no. If anything, it makes people think that EVs
are super expensive. Still not pratical for the common man, people like
me.
I've stated before what I think (this is my opinion, so feel free to
disagree) the common man is looking for, and still no one seems to be
pursuing that market.
1. Late model conversion - doesn't even have to be new
2. Sustainable - parts available for at least 10 years
3. Reasonable comforts, power brakes, AC
4. Automatic - the common man doesn't like to shift - it is true
5. Performance similar to a typical 4 cyl car - Corolla / Civic (better
than a Force)
6. Cost - if well reconditioned, about $12 - $18k. Quality of an 8-10
year old used car - which would be easier to market - $8500 - $10k.
7. Battery pack availability in the future and it can't cost a fortune.
I
think as far as the common man goes, Li Ion is out. NiMH is still an
option. Even decent lead acid is OK.
8. As far as battery maintenance goes, the common man doesn't want to
have to water them.
9. The car needs to be smart with a BMS because the common man doesn't
like hassles.
10. Range. A real world range - in real world traffic - with hills and
stop and go - 80 miles. 80 miles is more than sufficient. If it is a
parallel hybrid as well, it could have a 25 mile range in EV mode as long
as
it has similar performance in EV and hybrid ICE mode.
11. It has to be backed by a major auto manufacturer so that people can
sleep well at night knowing that someone will be there if it breaks and
needs repair.
12. Options of 2 door or 4 door.
I think the above could be done, and a successful business could be
created catering to that market.
What do I think will happen long term? Well, I think one of the major
auto makers will come out with a plug in hybrid dual purpose EV and ICE
car.
I think the car will do at least 25 miles in EV mode and will go 0-60 like
the current small hybrids. I think it will be freeway capable. I think
it
will be Toyota, and I think it will happen within the next 3 - 5 years. I
also think the common man will buy that car. I think that like me, he /
she
commutes < 25 miles on work days and can run all electric monday - friday.
And, I think if he / she needs a little extra range one night or on a
weekend he or she will go and fuel it up. I think it is pratical and a
decent approach to clocking some real EV miles. Everyone that I know who
has an EV also has an ICE car. If you put them in the same chasis, you
only
have to register, insure, store, and maintain one car. I see a real
advantage to this. Sure, I want all electric cars on the road, I bought 3
of them you know.
And, I even started building a 4th. I am an EV guy, don't get me wrong.
But, to get them on the road, I think we need to take that intermediate
step. This is my opinion, so feel free to disagree.
In the meantime, I guess I'll just have to keep waiting until someon
sells
their 10 year old conversion with a 80 mile real world range for $8500.
Trust me, anyone with that car, isn't selling it. And if they were, it
wouldn't be $8500. I do remember though when you could buy a used Force
for
about $4000 and a Jet Electra for <$1500 and of course my first EV for
only
$600. I paid about $3600 for the ETV-1, not running. But, now that has
all
changed. I guess I'll just have to dream on thinking I can still get that
dream car for $8500.
Still dreaming,
Steve
Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What I saw when putting the pictures of the Lotus Elise 3 and the Tesla
side by side was that the CHASSIS seems to be identical, but the styling
of
the panels is quite different, so it seems to be "based on" the Elise 3
(Federal).
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/pictures/edatabase/viewpicture.php?id=
116&image=chassis.jpg&title=chassis&album=laautoshow03
and from the unveiling pictures:
http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/autoblog/hirezpics/IMG_6894.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/20/tesla-roadster-unveiling-in-santa-monica/
Some striking details ARE the same, such as the striplights next to the
wheels on the fenders.
But the design of the hood, the lines on the side, the scoop, a lot of
things are different, so it is not really a look-a-like.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX:
+1-610-423-5743 Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of nikki
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
Apparently the Tesla is actually a Lotus - I have just been listening to
the
BBC radio station in Norfolk and they just mentioned it in the news!
Regards
Nikki
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Pat
I can get you the springs but not untill next week as I'm in Alaska visiting
my sister. If you are unable to find before then let me know and I'll get you
hooked up.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I need a couple springs for the brush holder on a 8" Warfield motor.
I finished installing the last 2 Orbital batteries in my E-Fiero and
upgraded the cabling to 3/0 cable. Woo-Hoo The car runs really well. BOO-HOO I
succeeded in a ARKY SPARKY shift from second to third gear at about 5000 RPM.
(boy I hate that zorch sound) I was relatively lucky. The Zorch Arky Sparky was
only a brush spring being vaporized. The comm still looks OK and the brush
holder didn't seem to be hurt. I am planning on just replacing the brush spring
& it's neighbor and finishing out the summer before pulling the motor.
Does anyone on the list have a couple brush springs they can sell me? The
springs fit a WARP 8" or a Advanced DC 8" motor.
Thanks
Pat Sweeney
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael,
If you want to know if the (usable) frame length differs then
watch the parameter "wheel base" - distance between front
and rear axle. That will tell you if there is a difference.
What I know was that US Electricar did select the normal cab,
long bed version for their conversion based on weight and on
available space before the rear axle.
When I check the 1990 - 1993 specs, they indicate almost
10 inches difference in wheel base between long and short bed.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2015/act/u
sedcarreviewspecs/
The long bed variant wheelbase is 117.9 inch
For the 1994 - 2004 variants apparently the wheelbase stayed the same
throughout those years:
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2011/act/u
sedcarreviewspecs/
Wheelbase for the regular cab, long bed still is 117.9" (2995 mm)
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
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Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michael Mohlere
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 7:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: S10 model curb weight(s)
Thanks for the info!!! I have trouble containing my "engineer, want hard
data" impulses. My original thought was that the info for the curb weights
of the various years and models of S10s would be readily available.....what
I have found is that the numbers appear to vary quite a bit from source to
source.
BTW, regarding "long bed" vs. "short bed" - is it JUST the bed that is
longer, or is the actual frame of the vehicle longer as well?? I would
assume just the bed, but you know what they say about assumptions.
Here is what I got off of internetautoguide.com
Curb weight is defined as the weight of a fueled vehicle (full gas tank)
with standard equipment and NO passengers. I assumed the data was for the
Reg Cab short bed, although it was a bit ambiguous at times.
S10 Year Curb Weight (kg) Curb Weight (lbs)
95 1314 2896
96 1318 2905
97 1406 3099
98 1396 3077
99 1471 3243
00 1412 3112
01 1368 3015
02 1451 3198
03 1368 3015
04 1852 4083
Obviously, the numbers from 99 and 04 look suspicious - perhaps for the
extended cab (crew cab?) with long bed instead of for the short bed.
auto.consumerguide.com lists the curb weights for the reg. cab., short bed
S10s as
90-93 2635 lbs
94-04 2822 lbs
Appears to be overly generalized, to say the least.
Mike
>From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: S10 model curb weight(s)
>Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:49:43 -0700
>
>My S-10 was originally a 94 ElectriCar that had been stripped of all its AC
>components except a water pump and the original alum battery box. The door
>sticker has the GVWR at
>
>Front 2500
>Rear 2900
>Total 5400
>As changed by US Electric car in 94.
>
>So they put in an extra rear leaf spring to compensate for the batteries.
>
>I weighed the truck with the Transmission, alum battery box out and the bed
>off (as I plan to keep it off and make an aerodynamic back). I used the
>'scale and pole method' and got
>
>Front End 1000
>Rear End 896
> Total 1896
>
>I figure that I will put in
>Transmission 200
>Metal bat box (20 bats) 150
>Alum Bat Box (10 bats) 90
>Batteries 30x72 1980
>9" ADC motor 175
>Hart Charger 40
>Zilla 1KHV Controller 30
>Me 250
>Misc 100
>----------------------------------
> Total 2915
> Grand Total 4811
>
>Rush
>Tucson AZ
>www.ironandwood.org
>
>Posted 9am 7/19
>
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--- Begin Message ---
On 7/21/06, Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm short so the Elise is perfect for me. But tall people may feel a
bit cramped and its tough to get in and out of with the top on. It's
amazing that Arnold was able to shoehorn himself into the car. I
don't think he would have been able to get in with the top on.
I don't fit into a stock Elise; I didn't fit into the first Tesla
prototype; I *do* fit into the prototype they drove at the unveiling.
So they're making it a bit bigger for big folks.
Unfortunately, like the real Elise, it is still a bit cumbersome to
get in and out of, but that's mainly because it's so low to the
ground.
jorg
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--- Begin Message ---
On 7/21/06, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We have seen this too, all it takes is something half as good at half
the price. beta vs VHS, Hybrids and Toyota's annoiucment of their
plug-in hybrid line. The 2 seater sportscar is the hardest line to make
money on in regular car worlds, why would anyone start there? (ok,
Obvious answer: min performance is easier to meet electrically, min cost
is not)
2 reasons:
1. Because electric cars have a reputation for being golf carts, which
hinders sale of any real electric car. By leading with the Roadster,
they can reset people's expectations of what to expect.
2. Because the tZero, and the visceral desire to have one, is what
drove the company into existence in the first place.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Freedom EV? status
>I haven't heard a peep about the "Freedom EV' in quite a
>while, and I don't see any status change since last
>September on the EVProduction website. So, is there any
>news? --
Not too much, I've been having many health and money
problems but the health part is back to ok.
I was waiting to finish the composite chassis before
posting, I have someone who says they will come over to help
me lay it up tomarrow as it's a 2 person job. It's a real
complicated layup, being the actual, structural frame taking
both the suspension and the 50% battery weight load and my
first one.
Once it's done in about a week, will glue it to the
body into a monocoque/ unibody, greatly increasing their
strenghts, reinforcing each other. Then I can cut out the
doors, winshield, ect. It will be a very strong car,
especially for it's low weight of about 300 lbs for the
unibody, composite part. Without it's crash protection
features, it could weight as little as 150lbs but I like
safety.
Then with it together, the big push to raise the
money to outfit it into a real turn key EV while doing the
doors, windows, ect. I'll probably sell a glider or 2 to
help pay for things or someone buying a finished one. If
nothing else, canibalize the now dead Ewoody but rather
finish it as the production one will be.
Once I have the money, it can be finished rather
quickly once the body/chassis is done. It will take about
another $5k. The whole project, it's production tooling to
first finished one will cost only $13k. So much for high
start up costs!! Doing it the low cost way is not fast
though, but I have more time than money and you use what you
have..
My by far biggest problem has been finding all that
little stuff you need to make a complete, production EV
which has wasted much time and driving me crazy!! Luckily it
will be useful on the other model EV's we build down the
road.
In 2 weeks I'll also have a complete single arm rear
suspension/EV drive/brake/shock set up for a 2f/1r 3wheelers
for sale for others to use. If anyone needs one, let me know
offlist.
Once I have the body/chassis together, put in the
windshield, doors, ect. I'll update the website.
Other good things are happening but too early to
announce.
Jerry Dycus
PS, Welcome back to the list Michael P and Tom G.
>John G. Lussmyer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/21/06, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Tesla, Venturi Fetish and TZero are not made for the common man. It is
> not intended to be practical.
Neither was the 'Tropica/Zebra' - a fine electric vehicle, unfortunately
dead as a brick. Is there _any_ company that _ever_ sucessfully build
and/or converted vehicles in numbers and made money with it? Sure, there
are plenty of Solectrias, but even Solectria wasn't too happy about them.
The Tropica looked good from a distance, but when you got close it was
very odd-looking; the interior made you feel more like you were
stepping into a plastic bathtub than a car.
It was also based on flooded lead-acid, had only 50 miles range, and
didn't have very good performance - a top speed of only 60 mph!
By contrast, well, let me put it this way: some relatives from Germany
(who were 20-something and female) were visiting, and I managed to get
them invites for the Roadster intro. When the youngest one stepped
out of the Tesla after her test ride, she looked at me and said, "This
car is CRAZY!" And she meant scary-crazy, not cool-crazy. "When you
told me you wanted to make a Porsche electric two years ago, I didn't
know why you wanted to do such a thing. But now I understand!"
I wish Tesla all the best, but I am afraid it is _very_ difficult to push
a new car brand into the market without a huge amount of burnable cash.
I ran into Martin Eberhard at Orchard Supply Hardware today (of all
places!) and he said the first 100 cars (the "signature 100") were
mostly sold. There's a stream of would-be customers who want a test
drive (not just a test ride) or more information / time with the car
before they buy.
This brings me to another topic:
Why in the hell (or heavens) don't go the way the aircraft builder went?
It was almost impossible to compete against Cessna, Piper and all the
others, so, they started to sell kit-planes to doit-yourself pilots. They
got lots of people that built those aircrafts, they have a huge lobby (the
other EAA) and were able to get their activities cast in regulations.
From http://www.acpropulsion.com/ACP_FAQs/FAQ_cars.htm :
8. Does AC Propulsion plan to build any other electric vehicles?
AC Propulsion studying a plan to manufacture safety-certified electric
vehicle conversions and sell them to retail and fleet customers. The
conversions will be based on the Scion xA and xB, the new sport
compact vehicles built by Toyota. A base model, and a premium model
with a larger battery will be developed. The base model will
outperform the Toyota RAV4 EV and is expected to sell for about the
same price. First production is planned in 2005.
So - if I were to go into the EV business, I would sell kit cars, with all
the difficult parts connected and/or in place, use some kind of well known
and legal frames, design a nice body and sell it as a kit. Have training
courses and additionally make money selling gadgets like i.e. better
motors, gauges, airconditioning etc.
If I were to go in, I would address the biggest need: people want
better batteries than lead-acid. Make a NiMH kit that allows people
to just drop them in and use them with the ease of lead-acid, with
proper balanced charging built-in. (Why NiMH? Because it has by far
the longest life, and it's still way cheaper than Li-Ion) Annoyingly,
we had a presentation at the Silicon Valley EAA from someone who was
building 12V NiMH packs out of NiMH D-cell batteries. (Ed Ang, or
www.airlabcorp.com) It was basically a drop-in replacement for Optima
Yellow-Tops - same size, less weight, more range. But he didn't want
to sell it to kit people - he insisted that he wanted to talk to only
large corporate buyers. GRRR!!!!! Why can't they all be like Otmar?
jorg
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--- Begin Message ---
All,
I'm thinking that most of you don't watch BCT, and as a Progressive
Redneck(TM) I only laugh at about half the jokes on the show! This dissing
was actually from an episode a couple of weeks ago, but I forgot to post
about it at the time. As I recall, BCT did a skit that was a PC
(Politically Correct) version of the old Dukes of Hazard TV show (wasn't a
Dukes movie made recently?). The two Duke boys and Daisy jump into the
General Lee (old mopar) and sloooowwwwwly drive away, commenting on how
slow the car is because it's eelectric, but environmentally correct! They
had me "madder than a leg-less Ethiopian chasing a donut down a hill"
(Larry the cable guy non-PC saying), so we need to send hate mail to them.
I wonder if we have any NEDRA cars near the show's location?
This reminds me that years ago John Bryan talked about doing a show with an
eelectric General Lee, and the script would be something like, "Hey Luke,
we need to install that there new Zilla controller we just got..." Hmmmm, I
have an old mopar...
BB
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Ralph Merwin"
Lee Hart writes:
Ralph Merwin wrote:
> The voltage was up quite high, at about 16.3 volts or so.
That's way too high! There's no reason to go this high.
Even during an equalization charge?
Hi Ralph,
I'll take a stab at it. If the battery is hot, then it would take
a fair amount of current to push it that high, and would be
harmful for the battery. If the battery is cold however, that
voltage level is easily reached with low current and is beneficial
for the reason you mentioned, cell equalization. We know that
some level of overcharge is needed to fully charge the batteries.
Bill Dube' has written about the importance of forcing extra
power to fully charge the negative plates. I've also heard
John Olson stress the importance of high voltage in fully completing
the charging reaction. If this is done when the battery is hot, there's a
good chance that a particular voltage level will never be reached
and the charger will continue to heat the fully charged battery.
On the E-meter issues: I've noticed that my CEF will fluctuate
with the seasons, and this causes predictable errors at certain times
of the year. When summer arrives, the pack will start to easily absorb
far more energy than was removed. This is done at a low enough
voltage that there is no concern with thermal issues or something like
battery age causing problems at some point. When winter arrives,
the pack starts filling up quicker and resets the Emeter sooner, as the
capacity shrinks. Without full thermal management there is no way
around this capacity fluctuation. At the times of year when the weather is
more consistent, the Emeter becomes very accurate in it's predictions.
I used a PVC pipe to listen to the vent directly and the noise
is definately coming from there.
I'll bet that sounded pretty cool! I've heard some ticking a few times
during aggressive charging, but under normal conditions, doing my EQ
on cold batteries, I never hear a peep out of any of them.
There's an equalization phenomenon that I've also noticed that I have no
explanation for. The height of the voltage reached through constant current
has a positive relation to the depth of the previous discharge. In other words,
you can reach a higher voltage during equalization, if the previous discharge
was deeper then usual, and the opposite effect is seen if the previous cycle
was a particularly shallow one. I have a good idea of what causes that, but no
scientific explanation to back it up with.
...John
--- End Message ---
