EV Digest 5829
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: splined couplers
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Elektro Transporter on eBay, Forgetaboutit!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Anyone consider converting a Pinto
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee
by "J. Lashley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Anyone consider converting a Pinto
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: splined couplers & Cheap EV Motor & my EV
by "James Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee
by "J. Lashley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: splined couplers & Cheap EV Motor & my EV
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Car weights and tire pressure
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Elektro Transporter on eBay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: splined couplers & Cheap EV Motor & my EV
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Another range question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EM Radiation health hazard
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EM Radiation health hazard
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: splined couplers & Cheap EV Motor & my EV
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EM Radiation health hazard
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Car weights and tire pressure
by "Mark Metcalf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: SMARTcar on eBay
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Anyone consider converting a Pinto
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Albright 200R contactor on Ebay: $14.95, $10 S/H
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Batteries- again
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Another range question
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: SMARTcar on eBay
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EM Radiation health hazard
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Batteries- again
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Another range question
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: SMARTcar on eBay
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Jay wrote:
Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee:
EVCC is a confusing choice of names, as it is (was) the name of popular
manufacturer of adapter plates and hubs.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've seen other comments about the concentricity of splined shafts.
This is unusual, because (in theory), the shaft was machined first, and
the splines were cut on a mill. The shaft itself should be concentric,
but the spline grooves may not be. If they did the splining on the same
machine, it should be okay.
One of the options I was considering was to have the shaft turned down,
but I was wondering if the shaft was surface hardened, and if machining
might expose a softer interior?
James Massey wrote:
At 03:52 PM 1/09/06 -0700, Eric Poulsen wrote:
I ordered one of those GE series wound motors from Surplus Center,
and it has a male 1.25" 14T splined shaft. Finding internally
splined couplers / hubs / sprockets to mate up to this thing is
proving to be really difficult, at least via web searches. Anyone
have a source that they _know_ carries this sort of thing? I checked
(amongst many others) mcmaster and SDP-SI, with little success.
G'day Eric
You may be better off in pulling the motor apart and getting the
spline ground down to maybe 1" (depending on the depth of the spline)
and putting a taperlock on.
My motor came with a spline coupling, but I'm not happy with how true
it is, I'm thinking that a normal taperlock with a keyway, to fit the
O.D of the spline. Make a key that fits the keyway and a spline
segment may be the way to go.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Love the 12-gallon gas tank for the heater alone. Talk about overkill.
Richard
> > There's no way this EV is worth $15,000 (or more!) for something in this
> > shape:
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320023139995
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 2006, at 1:30 AM, Mike Willmon wrote:
>
> > Anyone got any comments on the Pinto as a conversion? Do they handle
> > OK, is the steering dependable (aren't they rack & pinion)? I never
> > drove one.
>
> Ah, my first car. (Nostalgic sigh.)
My feelings as well. I learned to drive in a 1972 Pinto. My dad's first 'brand
new' car. He was an auto mechanic at the Ford dealer and got a good deal.
(Replaced a Falcon)
Actually, we rebuilt the engine together and gave it a new paint job when it
became 'my' car. So a lot of those 'father-son bonding while working on the car
together' feelings for me.
> the manual steering was awful - slow and high-effort. (Don't know if
> it was rack-and-pinion steering or recirculating-ball or whatever. It
> felt like a worm gear lubricated with chewing gum.)
I actually did like the car. The steering to me was fine. It had rack and
pinion manual and was quite easy to turn.
> To be fair (or at least fairer), some of the problems with the car were
> my own fault, since I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, and even
> less interest. I'm fortunate I didn't kill someone with the damn
> thing.
>
> Hopefully someone who loved their Pinto will speak up and give you
> another viewpoint. (Assuming, of course, that the set of "people who
> loved their Pinto" is non-empty.)
The set has at least one in it. ;) The first car that I purchased myself was
also a Pinto, this time a station wagon, '74 I think, manual transmission. I
really liked this car as well. Not too great on the acceleration, had to
replace a clutch myself but overall very reliable. I felt a twinge of something
when I traded it in for my next car. I had gotten rather fond of it. Much
better than a Vega that I had to drive as a service vehicle at a job I had. The
Vega felt very heavy and difficult to stear and slow. The Pintos felt much
lighter.
I had always had a desire back then (my teenage years) to 'soup up' a Pinto.
Jacked up in the back with wide slicks and a nice dark blue metallic paint job
with orange flames on the hood. You guys have resurrected my desire to do it
again. But this time as an electric with lightning bolts on the hood! That
would be cool, a sleeper electric Pinto blowing away his bigger/older cousin
the V8 Mustang! (or your favorite Chevy or Dodge muscle car) :) Ahhh .. To
daydream!
Regards,
Chet
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just one quick comment.
I wouldn't hold fast to your #1 requirement. EVs use a variety of
battery technologies which have different nominal voltages. Lithium
is going to be the "Odd Man Out" as far as meeting your preferred
volt levels that appear to be based on lead acid battery technology
(48, 96, 192).
Here are some nominal cell voltages:
1.2 volts per cell for NiCd and NiMH
3.6 or 3.7 volts per cell for Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer
3 volts per cell for lithium primary
2 volts per cell for sealed lead acid
1.5 volts per cell for alkaline and carbon zinc
Instead of just going by pack voltage you may want to consider
KiloWatts/KiloWatt Hours (can't recall which to use) in terms of pack
capacity. 13 to 15 seems to be about average for a battery pack in a
typical conversion. Base the standard on what the driver should
expect from a vehicle. For example, a 60 mile-range highway-capable
EV that weighs 3200 pounds should have a certain KW size pack to meet
those requirements.
So Kilowatts would be something I would suggest basing pack capacity
on. It encompasses more variables that can be used for real world
situations. Plus it looks more scientific and official which would
appease the government, industry and research folks you are selling
your standards too. And if we know what KW to use we can decide how
many cells we would need.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
On Sep 5, 2006, at 10:52 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
We believe a standards committee would advance the EV cause in
months instead of years and decades. The standards would also
eliminate most of the barriers our opponents and the oil companies
can create. Without standards, we continue to flounder. We propose
an odd numbered committee of the EV list pioneers (like 7 or 9) that
have the expertise, experience, and respect to create some very
basic standards. We all know who would best fit on this committee.
Immediate basic standards need to be agreed upon such as:
1. Preferred volt levels like 48, 96, or 192 eliminating odd numbers.
2. Controller approved levels associated with those voltages.
3. Minimum Guages.
4. Standard grounding techniques, shielding.
5. Standard Connectors.
6. Minimum Electrical Safety switches.
7. Minimum Fire Safety Systems.
8. Diagnostic Methods, Reports & Equipment.
9. Adoption of Certifications and Seal of Compliance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about one of these:
"EV Certified" = EVC Seal of Approval
"Total Electric Vehicle" Certified
"EV-SAFE" = "Standards Approved & Friendly Environment"
I'm sure the standards committee can agree on a great name.
Jay
Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Jay wrote:
>Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee:
>
>
>
EVCC is a confusing choice of names, as it is (was) the name of popular
manufacturer of adapter plates and hubs.
Mark Farver
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! MessengerÂ’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's the donor I'm looking at for $100.
http://anchorage.craigslist.org/car/201339188.html
the guy hasn't called me back yet. I hope they still have it.
They body looks to be in good condition for a 26 year old car.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
Chet Fields wrote:
<snip>
>...But this time as an electric with lightning bolts on the
> hood! That
> would be cool, a sleeper electric Pinto blowing away his
> bigger/older cousin
> the V8 Mustang! (or your favorite Chevy or Dodge muscle car) :)
> Ahhh .. To
> daydream!
>
> Regards,
> Chet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought the 5.6HP 48V as well, and was at Princess Auto today to pickup
that spline coupler but they have none in stock so I had to order it. The
DC motor in question from SC was given a thick layer of paint and the comm
needs cleaning and needs brushes but yeah it's surplus.
My EV project has been moving slowly but I picked up a 91 Jetta last month,
saved it from the wreckers, it's in surprisingly good shape for an Ontario
car with all our salt on the roads. I've been to the scrap yard to pick up
all the broken pieces almost have it ready to certify. My brother was also
nice enough to drop off a vw tranny so I could mock-up the adapter with out
having the car apart, I also got from him a used clutch plate that I will
use for clutchless setup. The car will be going on the road as an ICE for
now till I have all the electronics together, my Jeep is not very good on
gas so this will help me out in the meantime when I have to make long trips.
till next time or BBB in January!
James Sullivan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: splined couplers
> There was a discussion this week on this list started by Lee Hart
> entitled "Cheap EV Motor," which mentioned a large GE compound motor
> from Surplus Center:
>
>
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006090209581641&catname=&qty=1&item=10-2120
>
> Lee believes the above motor is considerably larger than 2 HP.
>
> The motor I purchased is a 5.6HP 48V series wound found here:
>
>
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006090209581641&catname=&qty=1&item=10-1422
>
> Also, this motor was mentioned in the thread:
>
>
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006090209581641&catname=&qty=1&item=6-936
>
> --Eric
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >Eric,
> >I am looking for a small series wound or sepex motor for a hydrostatic
tractor
> >project, could you send the url for the item(s) you found? I need to
replace
> >an 18 Hp ICE. Thanks David Chapman.
> >
> >Quoting Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >
> >
> >>I ordered one of those GE series wound motors from Surplus Center, and
> >>it has a male 1.25" 14T splined shaft. Finding internally splined
> >>couplers / hubs / sprockets to mate up to this thing is proving to be
> >>really difficult, at least via web searches. Anyone have a source that
> >>they _know_ carries this sort of thing? I checked (amongst many others)
> >>mcmaster and SDP-SI, with little success.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------
> >FastQ Communications
> >Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The main point is that there needs to be standards for growth, safety, and
mainstreaming EVs. If we wait, the government or the sabotaging oil / big gas
car companies will create it. We can have true EV pioneers and experienced
experts create standards now.
As to the basic standards, let the committee determine them.
Jay
Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just one quick comment.
I wouldn't hold fast to your #1 requirement. EVs use a variety of
battery technologies which have different nominal voltages. Lithium
is going to be the "Odd Man Out" as far as meeting your preferred
volt levels that appear to be based on lead acid battery technology
(48, 96, 192).
Here are some nominal cell voltages:
1.2 volts per cell for NiCd and NiMH
3.6 or 3.7 volts per cell for Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer
3 volts per cell for lithium primary
2 volts per cell for sealed lead acid
1.5 volts per cell for alkaline and carbon zinc
Instead of just going by pack voltage you may want to consider
KiloWatts/KiloWatt Hours (can't recall which to use) in terms of pack
capacity. 13 to 15 seems to be about average for a battery pack in a
typical conversion. Base the standard on what the driver should
expect from a vehicle. For example, a 60 mile-range highway-capable
EV that weighs 3200 pounds should have a certain KW size pack to meet
those requirements.
So Kilowatts would be something I would suggest basing pack capacity
on. It encompasses more variables that can be used for real world
situations. Plus it looks more scientific and official which would
appease the government, industry and research folks you are selling
your standards too. And if we know what KW to use we can decide how
many cells we would need.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
On Sep 5, 2006, at 10:52 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> We believe a standards committee would advance the EV cause in
> months instead of years and decades. The standards would also
> eliminate most of the barriers our opponents and the oil companies
> can create. Without standards, we continue to flounder. We propose
> an odd numbered committee of the EV list pioneers (like 7 or 9) that
> have the expertise, experience, and respect to create some very
> basic standards. We all know who would best fit on this committee.
> Immediate basic standards need to be agreed upon such as:
> 1. Preferred volt levels like 48, 96, or 192 eliminating odd numbers.
> 2. Controller approved levels associated with those voltages.
> 3. Minimum Guages.
> 4. Standard grounding techniques, shielding.
> 5. Standard Connectors.
> 6. Minimum Electrical Safety switches.
> 7. Minimum Fire Safety Systems.
> 8. Diagnostic Methods, Reports & Equipment.
> 9. Adoption of Certifications and Seal of Compliance.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Sullivan wrote:
I bought the 5.6HP 48V as well, and was at Princess Auto today to pickup
that spline coupler but they have none in stock so I had to order it. The
DC motor in question from SC was given a thick layer of paint and the comm
needs cleaning and needs brushes but yeah it's surplus.
That's weird -- the site lists it as "new."
My EV project has been moving slowly but I picked up a 91 Jetta last month,
saved it from the wreckers, it's in surprisingly good shape for an Ontario
car with all our salt on the roads. I've been to the scrap yard to pick up
all the broken pieces almost have it ready to certify. My brother was also
nice enough to drop off a vw tranny so I could mock-up the adapter with out
having the car apart, I also got from him a used clutch plate that I will
use for clutchless setup. The car will be going on the road as an ICE for
now till I have all the electronics together, my Jeep is not very good on
gas so this will help me out in the meantime when I have to make long trips.
till next time or BBB in January!
James Sullivan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have provision to implement it as an option in the EVision gadget
(which replaces e-meter type of instrument). Looks like
quite a few people want some type of tire pressure
monitoring solution. At least I got a single data point
how much it worth :-) Thanks David.
Victor
David Roden wrote:
On 2 Sep 2006 at 20:11, Michael Perry wrote:
(For a few
SUV owners who wouldn't check their tires, we'll all pay more for new cars?)
I don't really have a problem with this. I'd be willing to pay a hundred
bucks or so more for a tire pressure monitor. It really makes a difference
in your range and electricity cost per mile (or fuel efficiency if it's a
gasser). I've been surprised several times when I had a tire that abruptly
started losing air.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's worth what people will pay. If it ran I'd pay 1500. There is a lot of
restoration to do. Doesn't seem to be rusted too bad but again I'll mention
the absolutly rust free versions of this vehicle in California.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/202633085.html There are cheaper out
there than this but this one is cherry. If you really need a bus I'd
recommend 156v of lead & a zilla. I'd be one retro ride. A bit less dough
too. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:23 PM
Subject: Elektro Transporter on eBay
> There's no way this EV is worth $15,000 (or more!) for something in this
shape:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320023139995
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Sullivan wrote:
> I bought the 5.6HP 48V as well, and was at Princess Auto
> today to pickup that spline coupler but they have none
> in stock so I had to order it.
My local store had 2; I picked one up, as I'd offered offlist to mail
Eric one, but he hasn't replied with his mailing info yet... I guess
I'll return it if I don't hear back from him today or tomorrow.
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Last time I drove ACRX to the PIR I spent 8.5Ah and it's 17.5 miles
away from me (one way). Works out to 0.485Ah/mile with ~330V pack.
I thought it is too good to be true, and may be an effect of going
toward lower elevation overall. So I logged the numbers until
got back to the starting point. 19.8Ah and 34 miles. That's
0.582 Ah/mile. The ride is mostly a freeway, I was doing
55 to 60 mph, driving normally conservatively (no needless
passing, but never holding traffic either).
Ah counter also recorded: 7352Wh out of, and 928Wh in the battery
(due to regen). So actual drive consumption is 7352/34=216Wh/mile,
but regen apparently makes it (7352-928)/34=188.94Wh/mile overall.
Which I think is impressive for my [wrong] regular
bridgestone 36psi tires (pumped to 42psi each) and known dragging
rear brake shoe. Well, I have a belly pan... Still I was
surprised.
Anyway, the point I was going to make - for a passenger car with
no regen normal power consumption should be from 200Wh/mile
(very good) to 250Wh/mile (so-so). If it is more, and it
ain't a brick aero, there is likely something wrong with it.
The max Wh return from regen (in stop and go city driving)
I had was 18%. But even during this freeway ride it did
~12%. In fact I only used brake to hold it on red light
where power consumption is zero anyway.
One disadvantage of having regen - disks and drums become
rusty quickly...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Bob Bath wrote:
I will respond again on this, based on what I've read
for 8 years:
330 Wh/mi. is about average.
If you are under that, especially as low as 200-250,
CONGRATULATIONS. You have an aerodynamically slippery
car, a light foot, or both.
peace,
--- Chris & Patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Jim Coate rearranged random electrons to form the
words:
Your 250 whrs/mile is near the top end of what I'd
expect.
So while not a ridiculous number, it might be
worth checking
wheel alignment, dragging brakes, etc.
Thank you - will look into this. Did I misunderstand
the previous post that
suggested I had a light foot?
I take it Solectria's were pro-converted Geo Metros?
Generically speaking would expect a Force range of
30 or 40 miles,
depending of course on pack age and driving
conditions, so your 36 miles
could make sense.
I'm concerned about how far I can push this pack. It
has occurred to me it's
probably not safe to go by Amp or Watt hrs used, as
that does not take the
starting condition of the pack into account.
Should I be looking at the voltage rather than
measures of work to determine
DoD? If so, what's the best way to do this - sitting
still or under load,
and if the latter what *kind* of load?
FWIW, I've been charging up to an emeter reading of
148-150V. When I turn
off the charger, the reading is about 130V give or
take a couple volts.
After our longest days driving (low 20s miles so
far), the resting pack
voltage has been ~122V (although accelerating say,
up a hill it has briefly
been <100V). Can someone give a newbie a voltage-sag
explanation, what to
expect and what to beware of?
Can someone explain to me how I can determine where
my DoD lies on a 120V
pack of AGMs? I really want to treat them right!
Thanks a bunch!
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let me summarize:
"There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics."
=)
Lawrence Harris wrote:
Also check the studies carefully before you go spreading rumors.
There was a show on TV examining one of the studies on power lines and
cancer and when they controlled for diet and income they found that
the link between diet and cancer was much stronger than the one
between power lines and cancer. What they concluded was that on
average people living under power lines tended to be in lower income
brackets and that their diet consisted of higher amounts or highly
processed foods like hot dogs. The chemicals, primarily the nitrites,
used to preserve these foods can be converted by overcooking in to
various carcinogenic compounds. There conclusion was the diet and
income were much stronger factors and the only link to power lines was
that land was cheaper. Demographic based studies are very hard to
control for factors the researcher didn't consider.
Of course all this is just statistics and while numbers may not lie
they can be very misleading... Take a look at this web log for a
humorous take on this issue:
http://blog.core-ed.net/greg/2006/05/lies_dam_lies_and_statistics.html
Lawrence
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's often a sulphury / acidy smell in my car, but I'm pretty sure
what the source is.
Evan Tuer wrote:
According to the EV Album you have a small car with flooded batteries.
How well sealed off are they from the cabin? If you're getting a
sulphury / acidy smell inside the car, it could be this that's causing
headaches. I think I suffered from this slightly on my previous EV
until I sealed off the battery boxes properly.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger,
Sorry, I pulled the old "compose email, forget to click 'send' button"
trick. I wanted to make sure it's the right part. I figure for $11.75
USD ($12.99 CAD), it's hard to go wrong. In any case, look in your
inbox for my mail.
-- Eric
Roger Stockton wrote:
James Sullivan wrote:
I bought the 5.6HP 48V as well, and was at Princess Auto
today to pickup that spline coupler but they have none
in stock so I had to order it.
My local store had 2; I picked one up, as I'd offered offlist to mail
Eric one, but he hasn't replied with his mailing info yet... I guess
I'll return it if I don't hear back from him today or tomorrow.
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Let me summarize:
>
> "There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics."
> =)
>
Hmmm...I thought this was three types of *liars*: liars, damn liars,
and battery salesmen.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I have provision to implement it as an option in the EVision gadget
(which replaces e-meter type of instrument). Looks like
quite a few people want some type of tire pressure
monitoring solution. At least I got a single data point
how much it worth :-) Thanks David.
Victor
David Roden wrote:
On 2 Sep 2006 at 20:11, Michael Perry wrote:
(For a few
SUV owners who wouldn't check their tires, we'll all pay more for
new cars?)
I don't really have a problem with this. I'd be willing to pay a
hundred bucks or so more for a tire pressure monitor. It really
makes a difference in your range and electricity cost per mile (or
fuel efficiency if it's a gasser). I've been surprised several times
when I had a tire that abruptly started losing air.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
ALL TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING ON MODERN CARS COMES FROM VSS (VEHICLE
SPEED SENSOR) DATA. YOU NEED ONE PER WHEEL (SOME REAR WHEEL DRIVE CARS
HAVE ONLY ONE VSS AT REAR DIFFERENTIAL).VSS WAS ALREADY ON VEHICLES FOR
ABS, TRACTION CONTROL AND ATTITUDE CONTROL SYSTEMS. RUN YOUR TIRE
PRESSURES AT 10% BELOW MAXIMUM AIR PRESSURE STATED ON SIDEWALL.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> The space under the driving area is big enough for 6 Optima D31s on
their side, or 10 orbitals vertically (appx 3 sq-ft). Using a Getrag 6
speed gearbox, there is barely enough room for an Advanced DC 6/8 inch
motor. This takes almost all of the "engine" space. There is a little
room for chargers/controllers over the motor area. The rear trunk area
can handle the space for another 4-5 D31s. There is only 37 inches
between the walls of the "trunk" area.
>
>
Certainly looks like a good candidate for the small AC system Victor
has from the CitySturmer (sic?) and some lithium - Thunder-Sky's 92Ah
cells can lie on their sides and are 42mm thick (you don't really
think they'll burst into flames, do you?) No-one's been quoted a price
lately, but they were less than new SAFT NiCds when Victor had them on
his price list -- maybe he can find out the current price for us.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Here's the donor I'm looking at for $100.
> http://anchorage.craigslist.org/car/201339188.html
> the guy hasn't called me back yet. I hope they still have it.
> They body looks to be in good condition for a 26 year old car.
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
That looks like a great candidate for conversion - should be muchsafer
without the gastank. That grill needs a good blocking-off to cut drag!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure what the "R" designates -- hard to tell with Albrights
_fantastic_ website.
Item #140025876421
http://tinyurl.com/m4h79
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--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. sez:
You need to define the question better to get useful
answers. Often
this question revolves around the choice of 6v GC
batteries and 8v GC
batteries. In that case constant power is likely the
better option (by
all reports 8v's like to dish out only 3/4ths the
amps.) If you can
help be defining two potential EV systems (batteries,
controller,
motor) then the abundant experience of this list can
better help you
(almost always.)
Paul, you've stated the problem exactly. I can fit 16
batteries in my Suzuki Samurai. I have a DCP600
(48-144v)controller feeding a 9"ADC motor. If I use 6v
batteries I will have 96V with a suggested maximum 400
amps or 3840 watts. If I go with 8v I will have 128 v
and suggested max amps of 300 for the same 3840 watts.
It is also indicated that the 8v pack will be more
expensive and have a shorter life (if you exceed the
300 amps in order to get better top
speed/accelleration).
Since the number of plates stays the same and the
weight of batteries (thus the range) stays the same, I
figured that was keeping "the other variables
constant".
It sounds like the bottom line is that I can get
better performance from the 8v system, but using that
performance will damage the batteries. My question
was, would the better performance of the 128v battery
pack be noticable to the driver. The answer seems to
be no.
It seems strange that the 8v were created since it is
my understanding that they wanted to put more voltage
in the existing 6v battery space. If this has only
negative effects, why did they do it?
storm
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Anyway, the point I was going to make - for a passenger car with
> no regen normal power consumption should be from 200Wh/mile
> (very good) to 250Wh/mile (so-so). If it is more, and it
> ain't a brick aero, there is likely something wrong with it.
>
> The max Wh return from regen (in stop and go city driving)
> I had was 18%. But even during this freeway ride it did
> ~12%. In fact I only used brake to hold it on red light
> where power consumption is zero anyway.
> One disadvantage of having regen - disks and drums become
> rusty quickly...
>
I really wish the Ranger had a nice energy meter like yours - I
estimate ~350wh/mi from the mains only because the Avcon announces kwh
use; that's without a tonneau cover, but running *under 55mph* on
average. I have to qualify that as "on average" because I let the
truck roll in neutral down every hill, and I have one that I can
surpass 80mph at the bottom, but may go up it as low as 40mph (there
are 2 slow lanes, and I am in the far right one for the 2mi climb).
I doubt I get much energy return from regen, since coasting gets
higher priority, but there is also the fact that Ford did not
impliment the full capability of the system. If someone every cracks
the programming code, I'd crank up regen for the Economy setting (and
accel amps in Drive).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The auction ended with the bid at $21.7K and not up to the reserve -
how much *is* a SMARTcar worth?!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any current produces a magnetic field. AC or pulsating DC (including
that produced by DC motor controllers) will create _changing_ magnetic
fields, which can induce currents and voltages in stationary conductive
objects (like people).
WRT AC: If you have access to an oscilloscope, set the timebase so that
60hz is easily visible, put your finger on the probe, adjust it so that
you can see a waveform (roughtly sinusoidal), then grab the (outside
insulated portion) AC power cord that is running to the scope, or
anything else handy that's drawing current. You'll see the waveform get
much larger. This is induced voltage in your body. This happens from
simply being around the wiring in the walls; grabbing the line just puts
you that much closer.
Ever get better radio or TV reception from grabbing the antenna? You're
a conductor.
Mark McCurdy wrote:
AC produces EM fields, most EVs are DC which, I don't think, produces EM
I think you have to have an osilating current (AC) to get an EM field
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 3:41 PM
Subject: EM Radiation health hazard
Hi All,
I am writing a report on high voltage power lines for a engineering
ethics
subject at uni. There seems to be large risks in developing blood cancer
when exposed to high voltage power lines, even for a short period of
time.
What are people's thoughts on this issue and its relation to EV's. My
girlfriend complains of getting pulsating headache sensations whilst i
drive. I don't experience anything at all.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Sep 2006 at 11:56, Storm Connors wrote:
> It seems strange that the 8v were created since it is
> my understanding that they wanted to put more voltage
> in the existing 6v battery space. If this has only
> negative effects, why did they do it?
>From what I've heard, they did it because golf car manufacturers wanted a
quick and dirty way to improve top speed and acceleration. This way they
could get it with only minimal changes to the controller and none to the
battery box.
I don't think they were too concerned with the reduced lifespan.
FWIW, in road EV applications, 8v golf car batteries are a little shorter
lived than 6v, but quite a bit longer lived than 12v marine batteries such
as group 27 type.
EV performance (of all types) is so dependent on batteries that the right
way to go is to figure out what batteries you want and need, then design a
drive system to use those batteries. When you decide what your motor and
controller will be first, then decide what performance you want, then figure
out what batteries you need, you are designing backwards. You are locking
yourself into a battery that may appreciably raise your operating costs.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Sep 2006 at 10:43, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> So actual drive consumption is 7352/34=216Wh/mile,
> but regen apparently makes it (7352-928)/34=188.94Wh/mile overall.
This is in line with what Solectria Forces - also fitted with AC induction
drive - have returned. I don't want to start another AC vs DC war, but I
think this adds credence to the argument that there is something about an AC
induction drive that makes more than a trivial difference in efficiency.
It also suggests that the energy recovery from regenerative braking is not
close to inconsequential, even in routine driving, as is often argued by
series-DC motor proponents.
To provide another datapoint, consider the 1997 Alps mountain crossing by
Axel Krause of Brusa in a Mini-Evergreen fitted with AC induction drive. In
this mountain traversing journey the average consumption was 173 Wh/mile >at
the input to the charger<. Yes, it's an especially light vehicle traveling
at moderate speed (66km/h or about 40mph), but this was an appreciable
elevation change over the mountains - from 480m above sea level to 1620m
then back down to 270m.
Still, it's all anecdotal. No one has explained to my satisfaction (and
apparently not to others' either) how this should be so. Certainly the
regen contributes, and in the case of Forces a relatively low battery
current limit helps (enforcing the light foot ;-). Are there other factors
operating?
There has to be a reason (other than the geek factor ;-) that some very
competent and thoughtful EV engineers have looked to AC induction for road
EVs. Beyond theory, there may even be some solid, statistically useful
energy use numbers based on studies. Has anyone access to either flavor of
information?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Sep 2006 at 19:02, Death to All Spammers wrote:
> The auction ended with the bid at $21.7K and not up to the reserve -
> how much *is* a SMARTcar worth?!
I'd say about $21,700. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1965 Datsun N320 Pickup.
2180 Curb; w/large step bumper.
3963 GVWR
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 1:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
2108 for the HB. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
> Consumer Guide rates them @ 2200 lbs before stripping them down... if
I'm
> reading this correctly.
>
>
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2049/A
ct/usedcarreviewspecs/
>
> (That's a good spot to find specs on many cars.)
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <"Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@efn.org>
> > Cc: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
> >
> >
> > > Man I'm confused. I thought that Honda weighed around that as
Curb
> > weight.
> > > How did you get that info? Lawrence Rhodes.......
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:09 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 92 Honda Civic DX weighs 2220 stripped of AC, motor,
> > > > radiator, etc.
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
