EV Digest 5886
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Dateline EV Episode direct download
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: use original jet volt meter
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Electrics make the Anchorage Daily News
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: use original jet volt meter
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: ZAP planning a gen2 Zebra?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What is the difference physically between supercapacitors and
capacitors.
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: use original jet volt meter
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) newbie question - gears in or out?????
by Jeremy Rutman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Help with Raptor 600
by "Erik Bigelow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: What is the difference physically between supercapacitors and
capacitors.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: newbie question - gears in or out?????
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: What is the difference physically between supercapacitors and
capacitors.
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: use original jet volt meter
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Cushman for sale
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: newbie question - gears in or out?????
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Power to Manual Steering Conversion
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Latest motor, plans (Hey, Jim Husted)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Latest motor, plans (Hey, Jim Husted)
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Help with Raptor 600
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: source for drive pulleys and belts
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: newbie question - gears in or out?????
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EBEAA Meeting - this Saturday Sept 23, 2006 10-12 in Alameda
by Ed Thorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Latest motor, plans (Hey, Jim Husted)
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Traction Motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: newbie question - gears in or out?????
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I'm probably setting myself up for a bandwidth disaster, but...
I've got the 135MB Dateline EV video on my blog at
http://judebert.com/wasted_youth/EV/Dateline_Video.html for those who
don't have a BitTorrent client. I didn't set it up for streaming or
anything, but it's downloadable. It's in MP4 format.
Jude Anthony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Sep 2006 at 1:45, Calvin King wrote:
> Is there any way that I can make the original
> 'state-of-charge' meter useful again?
Connect it to only 16 of the batteries instead of all 18.
> By the way just how accurate would that be?
Let's just say it's better than nothing ... ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When you sent your Anchorage message, you selected a message from Roland
Wiench entitled "Re: Bearing replacement tips?" and hit "Reply." In
many email clients, this means that your message shows up as part of the
topic thread, since you are _replying_ to it. In fact, your email
headers reference Roland's message, and my original message (see below).
It looks like this (indents are reply levels):
Eric Poulsen / Bearing replacement tips? (Original message)
James Massey / Bearing replacement tips?
Mathew Milliron / Bearing replacement tips?
Roland Wiench / Bearing replacement tips? (Rolands)
MIKE WILLMON / Electrics make the Anchorage Daily News (Your reply)
Mike Phillips / Electrics make the Anchorage Daily News
Dave Cover / Electrics make the Anchorage Daily News
John Wayland / Electrics make the Anchorage Daily News
Eric Poulsen / Electrics make the Anchorage Daily News
Mike Willmon / Electrics make the Anchorage Daily News
Eric Poulsen / Bearing replacement tips?
(etc)
(etc)
(etc)
From my original thread message:
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From Roland's message header:
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From your message headers:
In-reply-to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (... others deleted ...)
Message headers tell all =) It seems your first message was sent using
GCI webmail, and the one that this is a reply to was sent using Outlook
2000 from a Windows box at home.
-- Eric
Mike Willmon wrote:
Wha?? This message was on-topic within its own conversation thread.
Subj: RE: Electrics make the Anchorage Daily News
What does this have to do with Roland's message?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 1:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Electrics make the Anchorage Daily News
Mike,
Please keep responses on-topic within conversation threads. Near as I
can tell, this has nothing to do with Roland's message.
-- Eric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Westburg will modify them for you. I just used a Westburg meter it fits if
you do a little modification. They are in Napa County, California.
Lawrence Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Calvin King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 10:45 PM
Subject: use original jet volt meter
> I have upgraded my drive pack from the original 96 volts to 108
> volts. While I like the extra power, it has made the original 'state-
> of-charge' meter unusable. I would like to keep the outward
> appearance of the car as originally built. This includes the
> original meters. Is there any way that I can make the original
> 'state-of-charge' meter useful again? That is, what do I need to do
> to restore the meter to working as well as it originally did?
> By the way just how accurate would that be?
>
> Calvin King
> '81 jet electrica
> 108 volts
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm, the designation 333 is for 3-seater, 3 wheels, 3 liter (per 100 km)
This car had a mileage of 79 MPG (!) using petrol, long before the
VW made a Diesel version Lupo that got 3 liter/km.
So the 3-seater capability was definitely different from the Sparrow,
even though the aerodynamic look is similar.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 7:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ZAP planning a gen2 Zebra?
> [Editor's Note:
> Could this be an ol' dusty Topica/Zebra that ZAP will copy from? ]
>
>
> See
> http://news.com.com/2300-11389_3-6107340-9.html?tag=ne.gall.pg
> "
> ZAP cars scream greenAugust 21, 2006 4:01 AM PDT
> TV viewers will recognize this electric car. Don Johnson used it in
> "Nash Bridges." ZAP plans to come out with a sporty model when it
> starts to produce cars with bigger batteries.
> Credit: Michael Kanellos/CNET News.com
> "
>
Well, then, this -
http://www.fortunecity.de/arbeit/industrie/229/FILM/KLEINWAGEN/frankr.htm
- is what Corbin copied to make the Sparrow! (stick it in
babelfish.av.com to turn it into English)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So supersurface area is the difference.
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 7:39 pm, Lee Hart wrote:
GWMobile wrote:
What is the difference physically between supercapacitors and
capacitors.
Advertising. Salesmen will stick a "super-" or "ultra-" prefix in front
of anything to make it sell better. :-)
There are many different capacitor technologies, of course. But most of
them, over time, have gotten some more meaningful adjectives to
describe them -- paper, ceramic, plastic film, or electrolytic;
depending on what material is used for the insulating dielectric
between the plates. There are lots of variations in what metals are
used for the two plates, too; but since they don't directly affect
functionality, they aren't very helpful.
All supercapacitors and ultracapacitors are really electrolytic
capacitors. They use a liquid electrolyte between the plates. The
plates are typical aluminum or carbon, both of which can be processed
to provide extremely large surface areas.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:45 AM 19/09/06 -0400, Calvin King wrote:
I have upgraded my drive pack from the original 96 volts to 108
volts. While I like the extra power, it has made the original 'state-
of-charge' meter unusable. I would like to keep the outward
appearance of the car as originally built. This includes the
original meters. Is there any way that I can make the original
'state-of-charge' meter useful again? That is, what do I need to do
to restore the meter to working as well as it originally did?
By the way just how accurate would that be?
G'day Calvin
Add a zener diode that is 108 - 96 = 12V in series with the meter. It'll be
a little high on the high end, a little low on the low end, but try it, for
a few cents of zener diode that may be all you need.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I don't think you'll be happy with the performance without a higher
reduction ratio, say 8:1 instead of 4:1
With a 4:1 acceleration will be lethargic and it won't be able to climb
steep hills or even some driveways.
I'm missing something here - from what I understand so far I can
get any torque I need at a given rpm, depending only on the power to the motor
(and environmental conditions keeping the rpms constant).
So my zippiness (or torque at low rpms lets say) will only depend on the max
power of the motor which is in fact high - 78kW
or 100 horses, no?
Of course with the t-sky batteries performance will never be great; but
combined with that motor and a 4:1 reduction, it will be a real slug.
Is it the max amps you think will cut down on the performance?
I can run these at 3C for 26kW (I am planning 288VDC and 30Ah batts)
and the website claims up to 20C is possible
which would be more power than the controller can even output!
In any case - do you think I should leave in a fixed gear, lets say 8:1 as you
suggest, and take out the manual gearbox, or leave in the gears?
Old timers and mechanics - give a greenhorn a hand here...
> Should I leave the gears in or out of the car I am planning to convert?
> I was planning to leave in only the differential.
>
> Car - dashwoo or vw beetle
> motor - solectria ac42, 21kW nominal and 78kW max, 4k rpm nominal and
> 10k rpm max
> controller - solect. umoc445TF
> batts - 15kWh thundersky
>
> for 26" wheels at 1000rpm i will have 120km/hr which is as fast as
> i'll ever need.
> so maybe i do in fact need to gear-reduce more than the 4:1 of the
> differential in order to spend more time at higher rpms?
> any advantage to a stick shift over 1 single fixed reduction gear?
>
> power-efficiency-rpm and torque-efficiency-rpm curves at
>
http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/car/ac42%20efficiency%20vs%20power.jpg
> http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/car/ac42%20efficiency-torque.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
I've been really working at getting my EV working for the Renewable Energy
Roundup in Fredericksburg, TX this coming weekend. I'm working with a used
Raptor 600, and it isn't pulling the contactor in. I'm holding out the hope
that there might be someone who knows these well. Here's the details as far
as I can tell:
The pack is connected correctly, as I measure ~128V (16*8V) at the pack side
of the contactor
The controller fan comes on
Without the Green/Yellow/Red LED gizmo plugged in, there is a yellow light
on the controller right above the spot where the GYR LED gizmo goes into the
controller.
With the GYR LED gizmo plugged in, the green and yellow lights light up, and
one wire is cut in the bundle, so I assume so far this is the wire for the
red LED, which is not lit.
Also, does anyone have a pinout diagram for the green connector on the
front? Some of the lettering on mine is rubbed off, which might be making
this hard.
Any other general info about them would be much appreciated! I'm ready for
the EV grin!
Thanks
Erik
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well it's all relative. "super" and "ultra" don't literally refer to
any particular technology. The technology has gone through carbon
aerogels and more recently carbon nanotubes. The terms electrolytic
double layer effect and pseudocapacitance work in there too.
So "super" or "ultra" vaguely refer to one of the new technologies and
not just a similarly large capacitor of the aluminum electrolytic or
tantalum variety. The caps I first recall seeing as "supercaps" were
0.1F, which is kinda miniscule by today's "cutting edge" standards.
Also those caps had such an incredibly high impedance you could short
out the terminals and only get a pretty limited number of mA out of it.
Essentially the term "super" or "ultra" is virtually meaningless in
itself. A technology name, a brand name, or even the capacitance or
power ratings are all meaningful descriptors. It's generally ok to use
it when it's understood what part we're talking about between all
parties. e.g. we started out talking about EEStor's claimed potential
and we started referring to them as ultracaps, even though we're
definitely not talking about Maxwell Supercapacitors.
Danny
GWMobile wrote:
So supersurface area is the difference.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jeremy,
Do you have a web link for the 20C output from TS batts?
The voltage on TS batts sag like grandma's boobs when delivering high
current.
I know this because I have a set of TS 100Ah batts powering my Clubman.
TS batts are the lithium equivalent of golf cart batteries - high energy
storage but low power output.
I still suggest you leave the gearbox in.
Once you know how the car performs you can decide whether you still need
the gears or not.
Some people use a standard gearbox and lock it in a particular gear,
removing the gear stick.
(AC Propulsion's Tzero uses a Honda gearbox locked in 2nd.)
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeremy Rutman
> Subject: newbie question - gears in or out?????
>
>
> Is it the max amps you think will cut down on the performance?
> I can run these at 3C for 26kW (I am planning 288VDC and 30Ah batts)
> and the website claims up to 20C is possible
> which would be more power than the controller can even output!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So basically it is a rough surface like a fractal fold instead of a flat
plate so that gives much more capacitance.
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 7:39 pm, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
As far a user is concerned, it's a value (typically >0.1F and above),
but design wise supercaps usually have porous material (like carbon)
electroplated with thin layer of conductive film over insulator layer.
The other electrode is
electrolyte touching all that film in its entire area, thus so giant
capacitance. A 1 cubic foot chunk of carbon has many square *miles*
surface area if you *unwrap* it all in a flat sheet equivalent.
Victor
GWMobile wrote:
What is the difference physically between supercapacitors and
capacitors.
Is it just referring to the size of the charge it can hold. You can
make a deadly capacitor by rolling two complete rolls of aluminum foil
around each other in a spiral with insulators preventing the two rolls
from touching. Would that be a supercapacitator?
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Calvin King wrote:
<snip>
"Is there any way that I can make the original
'state-of-charge' meter useful again? That is, what do I need to do
to restore the meter to working as well as it originally did?
By the way just how accurate would that be?"
Hi, Calvin. If this is a typical EV gauge, it is probably a westberg
(http://www.westach.com/). You can contact them and they can recalibrate it to
your voltage.
Even if it is not a westberg, they can probably recalibrate it. The cost will
likely not be above $50. They quoted about $25 to fix my zorched ammeter some
time ago (now if I could just get around to sending it in).
Typical SOC gauges like this are really just expanded scale voltmeters marked
in % SOC. They are not very useful, except when the battery has been resting
for a few hours. If you want a more accurate SOC measure that is accurate
while driving, you need an E-Meter or similar gauge.
An inexpensive alternative is to use a real voltmeter, and mark the point where
you are at 1.75 volts per cell on it. Never go below that. When you have to
slow down to stay above that point, then you are close to 0% SOC.
Calvin King
'81 jet electrica
108 volts
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
It's 30 miles on a charge with 12ea T-145's or 25 miles with T-105's. The
ZEV model advertises 40 but that's not realistic, the usual inflated range
thing.
Cheers,
Mark
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:
[email protected] Subject: Re: Cushman for sale Date: Mon, 18 Sep
2006 08:52:21 -0700 Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save
to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
Is your Cushman a 72v system? I thought it would do more like 40 miles on
that pack. Lawrence Rhodes....... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark
E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday,
September 18, 2006 5:12 AM Subject: Cushman for sale > Hi, > > I put
my 2001 23k mile Cushman $9.5k on EValbum.com for sale since my job moved
further away, 27 miles and was 15 miles and would like to do another
conversion. It has the standard battery scanner, onboard automatic charger
and goes about 30 miles on a charge at 45 mph. I also put my electric Pargo
golf cart with auto onboard charger $950 on EValbum since it's been in the
garage for some time. For more photos & info, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] in
Roanoke, VA or call 540-473-1248. > > Have a renewable energy day, >
Mark > > __________________________________________________ > Do You
Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Leave the gears in - let on road performance determine if you want to have a
fixed gear. Once you know this, you can gut the transaxle if you wish.
I did this for the New Beetle. 97% of the time it stays in 2nd gear
(8.9:1), but when I go on the highway, sometimes I like 3rd gear (5.7:1) and
rarely, but still useful, I have need first gear (16:1) when batteries were
low and I needed to get up a steep hill.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Rutman
Sent: September 19, 2006 2:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: newbie question - gears in or out?????
>From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>I don't think you'll be happy with the performance without a higher
>reduction ratio, say 8:1 instead of 4:1 With a 4:1 acceleration will be
>lethargic and it won't be able to climb steep hills or even some
>driveways.
I'm missing something here - from what I understand so far I can get any
torque I need at a given rpm, depending only on the power to the motor (and
environmental conditions keeping the rpms constant).
So my zippiness (or torque at low rpms lets say) will only depend on the max
power of the motor which is in fact high - 78kW or 100 horses, no?
>Of course with the t-sky batteries performance will never be great; but
>combined with that motor and a 4:1 reduction, it will be a real slug.
Is it the max amps you think will cut down on the performance?
I can run these at 3C for 26kW (I am planning 288VDC and 30Ah batts) and the
website claims up to 20C is possible which would be more power than the
controller can even output!
In any case - do you think I should leave in a fixed gear, lets say 8:1 as
you suggest, and take out the manual gearbox, or leave in the gears?
Old timers and mechanics - give a greenhorn a hand here...
> > Should I leave the gears in or out of the car I am planning to convert?
> > I was planning to leave in only the differential.
> >
> > Car - dashwoo or vw beetle
> > motor - solectria ac42, 21kW nominal and 78kW max, 4k rpm nominal
> > and 10k rpm max controller - solect. umoc445TF batts - 15kWh
> > thundersky
> >
> > for 26" wheels at 1000rpm i will have 120km/hr which is as fast as
> > i'll ever need.
> > so maybe i do in fact need to gear-reduce more than the 4:1 of the
> > differential in order to spend more time at higher rpms?
> > any advantage to a stick shift over 1 single fixed reduction gear?
> >
> > power-efficiency-rpm and torque-efficiency-rpm curves at
> >
> http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/car/ac42%20efficiency%20vs%20pow
> er.jpg
> > http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/car/ac42%20efficiency-torque.j
> > pg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dana said "...Thing is, power steering, and nice accelerator peddle action
defines your everyday experience in the vehicle. If you want to rough it, just
turn off the switch and experience manual steering...."
And this is not exactly true. With the hoses and pump still connected, moving
the steering tries to force oil backwards tru the pump, this adds resistance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All, especially Jim Husted
Latest motor that I'm playing with - have had it on the shelf for a few
years, but now may be its' time. Certainly its' time to be played with,
anyway. Photos start on:
http://jcmassey.gallery.netspace.net.au/Daihatsu-pics-01?page=4
It's reputed to be a floor sweeper motor, 36V, possibly from a "Tennant"
(brand) sweeper. From what I can make off the lable it is a prestolite, and
that's it! 14" overall in the body, around 7-1/2" diameter, 9" long in the
field tube.
It is compound wound, and is (was) set to only go one way. I'm planning to
extract seperately the series and shunt fields, and the brush connections.
If the trike ever gets built, this motor may be able to do that (pulley
drive to the diff input shaft), but at the moment, break times will see
this motor getting a birthday.
The plan for all this access is: reverse (reversed armature, 36V on shunt
field), boosted-torque low (overdriven shunt field), low (around 36V on the
field), med (maybe 15 to 20V on the field) and high (no shunt field).
Control is planned to be in part controlled via a little PLC or similar,
allowing certain things at certain revs (and rev limiting), select up/down
via paddles on the handlebars(?maybe). Make a little PWM controller for the
field. 72V system since I have plenty of 72V contactors and a complete 72V
GE-EV1 SCR controller system.
So, Jim, what am I likely to get from this motor used like this? Of course,
everyone else is aencouraged to 'voice' their opinion, too.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like the old Prestolite MKH-400# motor. Probably from early to mid
1980's. For American Lincoln floor machines. Tennat may have also used it.
Good motor. Looks like it has been around the block a couple of times.
Probably was still running when decommissioned.
Jeff
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
G'day All, especially Jim Husted
Latest motor that I'm playing with - have had it on the shelf for a few
years, but now may be its' time. Certainly its' time to be played with,
anyway. Photos start on:
http://jcmassey.gallery.netspace.net.au/Daihatsu-pics-01?page=4
It's reputed to be a floor sweeper motor, 36V, possibly from a "Tennant"
(brand) sweeper. From what I can make off the lable it is a prestolite, and
that's it! 14" overall in the body, around 7-1/2" diameter, 9" long in the
field tube.
It is compound wound, and is (was) set to only go one way. I'm planning to
extract seperately the series and shunt fields, and the brush connections.
If the trike ever gets built, this motor may be able to do that (pulley
drive to the diff input shaft), but at the moment, break times will see
this motor getting a birthday.
The plan for all this access is: reverse (reversed armature, 36V on shunt
field), boosted-torque low (overdriven shunt field), low (around 36V on the
field), med (maybe 15 to 20V on the field) and high (no shunt field).
Control is planned to be in part controlled via a little PLC or similar,
allowing certain things at certain revs (and rev limiting), select up/down
via paddles on the handlebars(?maybe). Make a little PWM controller for the
field. 72V system since I have plenty of 72V contactors and a complete 72V
GE-EV1 SCR controller system.
So, Jim, what am I likely to get from this motor used like this? Of course,
everyone else is aencouraged to 'voice' their opinion, too.
Regards
[Technik] James
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Erik,
I hope you're using the schematic for it. If
nobody else gives it to you, get me a fax number, and
I'll do so.
Pin 1 and 2 throttle.
Pin 3 tac
Pin 4 contactor
Pin 5 Ingition +
Pin 6 Ignition -
Pin 7 Shift blanking (unused for me)
Pin 8 Tac 1
Pin 9 LBI (unused for me)
Pin 10 5A, 250 V fuse, then to the HV traction pack.
Hope this "Gits 'er dun!"
TTYL,
--- Erik Bigelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been really working at getting my EV working
> for the Renewable Energy
> Roundup in Fredericksburg, TX this coming weekend.
> I'm working with a used
> Raptor 600, and it isn't pulling the contactor in.
> I'm holding out the hope
> that there might be someone who knows these well.
> Here's the details as far
> as I can tell:
>
> The pack is connected correctly, as I measure ~128V
> (16*8V) at the pack side
> of the contactor
> The controller fan comes on
> Without the Green/Yellow/Red LED gizmo plugged in,
> there is a yellow light
> on the controller right above the spot where the GYR
> LED gizmo goes into the
> controller.
> With the GYR LED gizmo plugged in, the green and
> yellow lights light up, and
> one wire is cut in the bundle, so I assume so far
> this is the wire for the
> red LED, which is not lit.
>
> Also, does anyone have a pinout diagram for the
> green connector on the
> front? Some of the lettering on mine is rubbed off,
> which might be making
> this hard.
>
> Any other general info about them would be much
> appreciated! I'm ready for
> the EV grin!
>
> Thanks
>
> Erik
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jack,
My source for every drive unit, accessories, suspensions, transmission,
brake kits and belts and pulley kits is from jegs.com.
You can get standard, chrome or billet aluminum pulleys in the standard
groove or deep groove.
You can get complete kits in either serpentine or V belts to install every
accessory you want, with brackets, pulleys, tensioner and idle pulleys.
You can get separate mountings for each accessory or get one large mounting
which I did to hold GMC diesel units that included a 15 volt 145 AMP/ 120
VAC 7 KW alternator-inverter unit, a power steering pump, a GMC vacuum pump
and vacuum canister.
This unit is design to fit the face of a engine, so I make a large 1/2 thick
mounting plate that is supported by 4 donut type engine mounts to the frame
about 12 inches forward of the motor pilot shaft. A Dodge Flexidine spline
coupler than runs through two face bearings on this plate to the main drive
pulley, the same pulley as on a engine.
I made this mounting plate large enough, to hold a electric cooling pump for
the Zilla and another electric pump for the water heating for the
defrosters.
I can removed the motor through the bottom of the car by just sliding the
motor out of the Dodge Flexidine spline coupler while leaving the whole
accessory unit in place.
I use a Jegs transmission mount, so I can unbolt and just slide the motor
and transmission back with out lifting up back of the transmission off the
transmission mount studs.
Try to do that with a engine.
I can also removed the whole accessory unit by taking out 4 mounting donut
mounting bolts and disconnected all electrical with water tight GM
connectors and hose disconnects using Russell hose ends and swivel hose
ends.
I can remove the motor and transmission and replace it by another in with
four hours, using this method of installation.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: source for drive pulleys and belts
> Where is a good source for some pulleys and belts that can handle the
> torque of a 8" motor?
> Or maybe I should say, what is a good online source for them with a good
> online catalog.
> Jack
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:57 AM 9/19/2006, Jeremy Rutman wrote:
Of course with the t-sky batteries performance will never be great; but
combined with that motor and a 4:1 reduction, it will be a real slug.
Is it the max amps you think will cut down on the performance?
I can run these at 3C for 26kW (I am planning 288VDC and 30Ah batts)
and the website claims up to 20C is possible
Have you actually TESTED one of the ThunderSky batteries to see if it
will provide that much power?
I learned to dis-believe ANY spec from ThunderSky.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
*********START OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
Topic: EVs for Dummies: The CityEL
Date: Saturday, Sept, 23, 2006
Time: 10 am to 12 noon.
Site: Alameda First Baptist Church
1515 Santa Clara Ave, Alameda
Visitors welcome, open to the public.
This month we have the special pleasure of having
Peter Senkowsky, former engineer for the Corbin Motors
Sparrow and now co-chair for the newly formed Konocti
EAA Chapter up in Clear Lake. He is coming to present
the history and feature of a German-made 3-wheel EV
called the "CityEL", which filled an important nitch
for urban transportation in Europe. Some of these have
been successfully imported into the USA and a couple
of these vehicles will be participating at next
weekend's SVEAA's annual Rally.
Together with the discussion about the CityEL, we hope
to hear some insights into how EVs have impacted the
German culture through the experiences Peter has had
in this area. Many EV developments and vehicles never
received exposure in the USA, but several significant
German (and Swiss) companies have developed fantastic
EV transportation over the past 20+ years.
But, unlike many other small-scale EV manufacturer,
the CityEL is still being in production. New vehicles
can still be ordered. Several used CityELs show up on
ebay (in Germany) - check out on www.evfinder.com (and
click on the ebay link). They provide great
transportation and live on by being owned and driven
by people who love to save the planet.
We will have one or two (or maybe more) CityELs for
all to see in the parking lot after the meeting. Also
other EVs will be on-hand and informal Q&A can take
place in the parking lot.
* Remember, next weekend the Silicon Valley Chapter of
the Electric Auto Association (EAA) is proud to
announce the 34th Annual EV Rally & Show on Sept 30,
2006 10am-4pm at Palo Alto High School.
* There is also the 4th Annual EV Conversion Workshop
on Oct 1, 2006 starting at 10am in Cupertino,CA. Both
EVents are free and open to the public.
Come see and ride in production EVs like the Toyota
RAV4-EV, Solectria Force, and Ford Ranger EV;
conversion EVs; ride electric bikes & scooters. There
will also be hybrid vehicles, like the Toyota Prius
and the Honda hybrids. And a few other surprises ...
like a ultra sleek, speedy EV roadster from Tesla
Motors.
See you there.
http://www.ebeaa.org
*********END OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey James
First off, no need to scream at me from across the restaurant, I'm right here
8^ P. Secondly, I thought my bench was a hell hole till I saw your in the one
shot, LMAO!
Okay, getting on to business...
Remove the data tag and you might find a stamped or painted Prestolite number
under it (very common for them to stamp before pasting the tag. There is a
good chance it's an MKH as Jeff stated. Somewhere on the housing there should
also be a date code stamped into it (a letter and a number) I can look to see
when she was born since you talked about birthdays, lol.
Marko is using a shorter version of this shunted type (MGP, only has 2 pole
shoe bolts) in his Fiat, and I've also done a couple other (shorter types) for
Rabbit conversions also. So this longer motor should drive a trike very well.
At a guesstimated weight of 80 to 85 lbs. this is about 2/3rds the mass of an
ADC8" and being a Prestolite is built well with good parts availability.
I can't offer a lot as to how everything will work as you describe but I
believe it will work really well. I'm not sure what you meant by reversing the
armature unless you plan on drilling and installing the brush jumper (from
field coil) to a new terminal.
The best I can offer is what I'd do if it was my motor, so here you go.
Option 1: I'd pull the coils and separate the shunt and the strap coils to
separate terminals, and then remove and attach the field brush jumper to a new
"A" terminal. This would make a 6 terminal motor with 2 "A" terminals
(armature), 2 "F" terminals (main coils), and 2 "S" smaller terminals (shunt
coils).
Option 2: I'd pull the coils and throw in the series coils I have laying on
my floor right now, LMAO!
Option 2A: Have the wind shop wind you up a pair of series coils to match the
existing series coils you have now.
What I do know is that Marko's shunted MGP motor at 120 volts got his Fiat to
90 MPH so you should have no problem scooting a trike along really nicely.
Anyway hope this helps and let me know if you get any numbers from behind the
tag.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
G'day All, especially Jim Husted
Latest motor that I'm playing with - have had it on the shelf for a few
years, but now may be its' time. Certainly its' time to be played with,
anyway. Photos start on:
http://jcmassey.gallery.netspace.net.au/Daihatsu-pics-01?page=4
It's reputed to be a floor sweeper motor, 36V, possibly from a "Tennant"
(brand) sweeper. From what I can make off the lable it is a prestolite, and
that's it! 14" overall in the body, around 7-1/2" diameter, 9" long in the
field tube.
It is compound wound, and is (was) set to only go one way. I'm planning to
extract seperately the series and shunt fields, and the brush connections.
If the trike ever gets built, this motor may be able to do that (pulley
drive to the diff input shaft), but at the moment, break times will see
this motor getting a birthday.
The plan for all this access is: reverse (reversed armature, 36V on shunt
field), boosted-torque low (overdriven shunt field), low (around 36V on the
field), med (maybe 15 to 20V on the field) and high (no shunt field).
Control is planned to be in part controlled via a little PLC or similar,
allowing certain things at certain revs (and rev limiting), select up/down
via paddles on the handlebars(?maybe). Make a little PWM controller for the
field. 72V system since I have plenty of 72V contactors and a complete 72V
GE-EV1 SCR controller system.
So, Jim, what am I likely to get from this motor used like this? Of course,
everyone else is aencouraged to 'voice' their opinion, too.
Regards
[Technik] James
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mike
First off those motors looked huge and I have no idea what they came out of
and I doubt they are suitable for EV use. The cost of freighting them would
jack the costs beyond what I believe they are worth. Add the cost of any
repairs and you have an ADC9.
Just my input here.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What would it take to get John Wayland or Jim Husted to go take a look at
these? there's still 3 days left and bidding is still
low. I wouldn't bid my self but if they were in salvagable shape for cheap I'd
buy one from the winner, if one of these guys says
they're in decent shape, or even usable.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160031296591&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Fcgiur
l%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com%252Fws%252F%26fkr%3D1%26from%3DR8%26satitle%3D160031296591%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1
Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of bortel
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 6:11 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Traction Motors
>
>
> Has anybody seen this on eBay? Item #160031296591
> Dan
>
>
---------------------------------
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Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
>>From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>I don't think you'll be happy with the performance without a higher
>>reduction ratio, say 8:1 instead of 4:1
>>With a 4:1 acceleration will be lethargic and it won't be able to climb
>>steep hills or even some driveways.
>
> I'm missing something here - from what I understand so far I can
> get any torque I need at a given rpm, depending only on the power to the
> motor
> (and environmental conditions keeping the rpms constant).
> So my zippiness (or torque at low rpms lets say) will only depend on the
> max
> power of the motor which is in fact high - 78kW
> or 100 horses, no?
Yup, you're missing something.
Assuming a series wound motor:
Torque at the motor depends on current. More current equals more torque.
For a given motor, a given current will always produce the same torque.
THe problem is, after a certain point, a motor can only handle a given
current for so long before it melts down. How long depends on the current
with really huge currents destroying the motor in a matter of seconds or
less.
THe next point you missed, acceleration and hill climbing depend on the
torque AT THE WHEEL, not at the motor. The reduction ratio between the
motor and the wheel 4:1 or 8:1 multiplies the torque by the same ratio
that it reduces the RPMs, this is what maintains the constant power
through the reduction. High RPMs and low torque in, low RPMs and high
torque out.
The 4:1 ratio will increase your wheel torque to four times your motor
torque, and 8:1 ratio will increase it to eight times your motor torque.
Final point, the 78kw of power is how much power this motor can produce
when operating at it's continuous power point at 4,000 rpm. It's
continous power at 2,000 rpm is only 39kw, at 1,000 rpm it's about 19 kw,
at 500 rpm, it's less than 10 kw, etc. This is all MOTOR RPM
This is because the torque stays about the same, so the power drops in
direct relation to the RPM (power = RPM * torque)
By using a larger reduction ratio you accomplish two things, you increase
the torque at the wheels AND allow the motor to spin faster where it can
generate MORE power.
>
>>Of course with the t-sky batteries performance will never be great; but
>>combined with that motor and a 4:1 reduction, it will be a real slug.
>
> Is it the max amps you think will cut down on the performance?
> I can run these at 3C for 26kW (I am planning 288VDC and 30Ah batts)
> and the website claims up to 20C is possible
> which would be more power than the controller can even output!
Reality often falls short of manufacturers claims, this is doubly so when
discussion T-shy batteries. You might be able to pull 20C current from
them for a few moments, but the voltage will sag to less than half of
rated. You have to take voltage sag into account when calculating power
output.
Even when only pulling 3C you'll get less than 26kw, probably less than 22kw.
Now go back and match the components up. See if you can find a torque
chart for the ac42, see how much torque it can produce when only fed 90
amps. Multiply this torque by the motor RPM at various speeds and see how
much power you REALLY have.
Estimate the weight of your vehicle and then calculate how much torque it
will require to climb a 12 percent grade (that's a reasonably steep hill).
If you live somewhere flat, then you can wimp out a bit and assume an 8%
grade.
Can your motor & reductio ratio give you that much wheel torque? if so
can you hit your desired top speed without over revving the motor? If the
answer to both of these questions is "yes" then you can get away with a
single reduction ratio. Otherwise you will NEED multiple gears.
>
> In any case - do you think I should leave in a fixed gear, lets say 8:1 as
> you
> suggest, and take out the manual gearbox, or leave in the gears?
>
> Old timers and mechanics - give a greenhorn a hand here...
>
>> > Should I leave the gears in or out of the car I am planning to
>> convert?
>> > I was planning to leave in only the differential.
>> >
>> > Car - dashwoo or vw beetle
>> > motor - solectria ac42, 21kW nominal and 78kW max, 4k rpm nominal and
>> > 10k rpm max
>> > controller - solect. umoc445TF
>> > batts - 15kWh thundersky
>> >
>> > for 26" wheels at 1000rpm i will have 120km/hr which is as fast as
>> > i'll ever need.
>> > so maybe i do in fact need to gear-reduce more than the 4:1 of the
>> > differential in order to spend more time at higher rpms?
>> > any advantage to a stick shift over 1 single fixed reduction gear?
>> >
>> > power-efficiency-rpm and torque-efficiency-rpm curves at
>> >
>> http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/car/ac42%20efficiency%20vs%20power.jpg
>> > http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/car/ac42%20efficiency-torque.jpg
>
>
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