EV Digest 5901
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Zilla Update
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Non-Contact Laser Thermometer
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Telsamotors blog presentation
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) 1000A curtis controls
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: FW: Telsamotors blog presentation
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Distance Formula
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: distance formula
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Workplace charging
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Telsamotors blog presentation
by Geoff Linkleter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: New GM electric car
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: L91 vs. K91 vs A89
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) High efficiency switched capacitor battery balancer
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Happy Faraday Day!
by "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Tesla Motors Review on BBC Radio
by Geoff Linkleter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Workplace charging
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Drafting gone wild
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Workplace charging
by Aaron Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) If you liked the "Strange EV on eBay" thread...
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Happy Faraday Day!
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Cost effective batteries as a structural component
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Rendezvous, was Ultimate Tesla Promo
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: If you liked the 'Strange EV on eBay' thread...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: New GM electric car
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
by "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: If you liked the "Strange EV on eBay" thread...
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: If you liked the "Strange EV on eBay" thread...
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: If you liked the "Strange EV on eBay" thread...
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 06:38:51 -0500, you wrote:
>Otmar;
>
>Can you give some us that are planning future conversions an update on
>how the Zilla production is going.
Yes, please. I am planning on buying in May. I would Like to buy
the Zilla 1k.
R. Matt Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I've been trying to measure various temperatures on high voltage parts while
running and found this little gem at Harbor Frieght for $40 model 91778. These
laser pointed non contact IR thermometers used to be around $200. I measured
internal circuit board traces for beefing up and commutators/brushes while
running.
Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with harbor Frieght and neither is my
grandmother.
Cheers,
Mark
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/22/06, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Interesting - on a slide 11 it says biodiesel generator (essentially APU)
makes enough energy (18.21kWh) to drive 4.9mi/kWh efficient EV
89 miles per gallon used, while direct diesel powered ICEs are 36mpg
(Diesel Beetle 2006 taken as example). This must make diesel based
APU twice as efficient a diesel car to begin with, but that was
not demonstrated so far, not even equal. APUs will *always loose*
because of extra conversion of energy involved. Not much, but
will loose. Never be twice as good as diesel powered ICE car.
So am I missing anything? Can this be due to a difference
between diesel fuel and biodiesel fuel? I don't think so...
You're comparing very different things.
A Beetle is a very large, heavy and un-aerodynamic car. There are
plenty of small diesel cars in this country that do 80+ mpg. A
straight diesel version of the Tesla or Elise (with a similar small
engine) would probably do better than 100mpg.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These have been mentioned on the list in the past, but
I can't remember any detailed analysis of the results
on an actual EV.
Are these readily available? Are they reliable on
conversions with a pack voltage of 156V nominal?
How much did you pay for one and who is your source?
Obviously Curtis won't support a repackaged control
with
higher voltage and current ratings. Does the supplier
of these control offer any warranty?
Thanks,
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> On 9/22/06, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Interesting - on a slide 11 it says biodiesel generator (essentially
> APU) makes enough energy (18.21kWh) to drive 4.9mi/kWh efficient EV
> 89 miles per gallon used, while direct diesel powered ICEs are 36mpg
> (Diesel Beetle 2006 taken as example). This must make diesel based APU
> twice as efficient a diesel car to begin with, but that was not
> demonstrated so far, not even equal. APUs will *always loose* because
> of extra conversion of energy involved. Not much, but will loose.
> Never be twice as good as diesel powered ICE car.
>
> So am I missing anything? Can this be due to a difference between
> diesel fuel and biodiesel fuel? I don't think so...
>
>
> You're comparing very different things.
> A Beetle is a very large, heavy and un-aerodynamic car. There are
> plenty of small diesel cars in this country that do 80+ mpg. A
> straight diesel version of the Tesla or Elise (with a similar small
> engine) would probably do better than 100mpg.
>
>
No, the comparison is even worse....
I think the presentation was comparing burning bio-diesel in an ic car
engine with generating electricity in a diesel fired commercial facility,
NOT an APU. Most likely a combined cycle steam turbine - a very efficient
use of diesel.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
GE I-5
Blossvale, NY
________________________________________________
Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.9
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michael,
>What is a problem is any case where lithium is exposed to air. According
to
what I've been researching, this will start a fire.
I am not sure that what might be true for pure lithium is true for the forms
that are in lithium batteries. My experience with Kokam lithium polymer
cells include cutting them open to see what is inside. There was no
explosion or fire.
Apparently, even if you escape
the sudden (extreme) fire, the fumes can still kill, and the entire
vehicle
*will* char down, with parts of the surface it's sitting on.
We have accidently over-discharged a cell in a 360 volt series pack and
continued to pull 600 amps thru the cell. This caused overheating and some
white smoke but did not cause any fire. The smoke smelled bad but the fumes
did not kill me, nor seem to do any damage but check back with me in 20
years <G>.
My experiences are only with Kokam's but I am inclined to doubt this is a
problem in modern cells. Does anyone have any experience cutting open lap
top batteries? What was the results?
Wikipedia says:
When placed over a flame, lithium gives off a striking crimson color, but
when it burns strongly, the flame becomes a brilliant white. Lithium will
ignite and burn when exposed to water and water vapors in oxygen. It is the
only metal that reacts with nitrogen at room temperature. Lithium has a high
specific heat capacity, 3582 J/(kg·K), and a great temperature range in its
liquid form, which makes it a useful chemical.
Lithium metal is flammable and potentially explosive when exposed to air and
especially water, though it is far less dangerous than other alkali metals
in this regard. The lithium-water reaction at normal temperatures is brisk
but not violent. Lithium fires are difficult to extinguish, requiring
special chemicals designed to smother them.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Curtis,
You might want to try Uve's EV calculator.
There is a copy at http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html and a
nice simplified version at http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Distance Formula
Is there a formula that can calculate the distance an EV can travel, given
the battery specifications?
Curtis Muhlestein
Riverton Utah
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: distance formula
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:28:41 +0300
The range is given by an empirical formula taking into account battery
capacity and vehicle weight. The range R (in km)
is given as a function of battery capacity B(of any type, in kWh) and total
vehicle weight W (in kg) by:
R[kilometers] = 250 B [kWh] / (W[kilograms]^0.6)
There is a lucky cancellation that makes the formula look exactly
the same in cowboy units:
R[miles] = 250 B [kWh] / (W[lbs]^.6)
see http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/range.htm for details.
the formula comes from real data of peoples evs on austinev.org
to get the kWh of you batt multiply the Ah by the V
Jeremy
It's great that you took the time and effort to collect and analyze this
data, but I have my doubts about the accuracy of your conclusion.
The range of data shown on your site ( km/kwh vs weight) is so spread out,
that to say that the range is "given" by your formula is misleading. You
could say that "usually, the range will be given by this formula within a
factor of 3", and that would be a more defendable statement, since the width
of the data band is roughly 10X.
Even it the range of data was much tighter, I see a fundamental problem with
basing any range predictions of the owner/builder's claim of range. You
have to expect a wide range of honesty in the responses, as well as
different interpretaions of "range".
Is range based on 80% DOD, for example? Is this range in hilly terrain, or
flat? With the car driven gently or agressively?
In any case, any prediction which does not account for the vehicle
aerodynamics can never be very good. This may be part of the reason the data
spread is so wide.
The "600 lb of batteries = 1 gallon of fuel" approximation does account for
the aerodynamics of the car, since it's based on the original mileage of the
ICE car. But, that formula fails to account for the size and efficiency of
the original ICE engine, which will affect the original ICE car mileage but
not the mileage as an EV.
Also, since a good portion of the energy used in an EV ends up in tire
losses, some consideration of the RR of the tires used ( at the pressure
used, of course) would help also.
So, I would guess, that an analysis and range prediction that:
1. Accounted for battery energy ( at, for example, a one-hour rate)
2. Accounted for vehicle weight.
3. Accounted for vehicle aerodynamics ( Cd and frontal area)
4. Accounted for tire rolling resistance coefficient.
5. Was based on real test data ( range to a given SOC (eg. 80%DOD), and not
reported anecdotal data.
6. Accounted for regen.
might be a useful predictor of range.
Phil Marino
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So many Lithium myths on this list.
The Tesla has me concerned. What happened with the Laptop cells could easily
happen with the Tesla, despite their futuristic BMS. All it takes is one bad
cell to *internally* short. Do you think Dell didn't extensive protection
circuits? The problems they experienced were internal shorts from mistakes
in manufacturing.
Puncture a stock laptop Li-Ion and it bursts in to flames. This is why the
phosphate cells are such a break through and they are much safer. Valance,
A123 or E-Moli are the way to go.
Cliff you are using Lithium Polymer cells, the gel they are in is not in
itself flammable, try exposing one and getting it wet.
Two reasons why I have not ordered a Tesla, first they are left hand drive
but I would not buy a car using stock laptop cells. All it takes is one of
the 7000 cells to be faulty and, you will be killed.
Hey Cliff, you were so lucky in that incident (although that cell would have
been toast, you caught that just in time.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ProEV
Sent: Friday, 22 September 2006 11:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
Hi Michael,
>What is a problem is any case where lithium is exposed to air. According
to
> what I've been researching, this will start a fire.
I am not sure that what might be true for pure lithium is true for the forms
that are in lithium batteries. My experience with Kokam lithium polymer
cells include cutting them open to see what is inside. There was no
explosion or fire.
>Apparently, even if you escape
> the sudden (extreme) fire, the fumes can still kill, and the entire
> vehicle
> *will* char down, with parts of the surface it's sitting on.
We have accidently over-discharged a cell in a 360 volt series pack and
continued to pull 600 amps thru the cell. This caused overheating and some
white smoke but did not cause any fire. The smoke smelled bad but the fumes
did not kill me, nor seem to do any damage but check back with me in 20
years <G>.
My experiences are only with Kokam's but I am inclined to doubt this is a
problem in modern cells. Does anyone have any experience cutting open lap
top batteries? What was the results?
Wikipedia says:
When placed over a flame, lithium gives off a striking crimson color, but
when it burns strongly, the flame becomes a brilliant white. Lithium will
ignite and burn when exposed to water and water vapors in oxygen. It is the
only metal that reacts with nitrogen at room temperature. Lithium has a high
specific heat capacity, 3582 J/(kg.K), and a great temperature range in its
liquid form, which makes it a useful chemical.
Lithium metal is flammable and potentially explosive when exposed to air and
especially water, though it is far less dangerous than other alkali metals
in this regard. The lithium-water reaction at normal temperatures is brisk
but not violent. Lithium fires are difficult to extinguish, requiring
special chemicals designed to smother them.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just seen that plug-in Prius commercial which the car has 100+ MPG painted
on both sides of the car.
So I could put 100+ MPG on my EV, using the energy equivalent to gasoline.
Not bad for a 30 year old EV.
We all known that MPG is referred to a fuel used for a ICE. If we use MPG in
how much water we used in the batteries over a period of time, do I take the
energy of the hydrogen and oxygen? I know that the energy equivalent of
hydrogen is about 500,000 btus per gallon.
I could used the amount of gallons I used per distance travel, without any
consideration to cost or energy. I use about 1 gallon of water per 150
miles which becomes about 150 mpg (of water).
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:56 PM
Subject: RE: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
> Death to All Spammers wrote:
>
> > Your way of figuring mpg equivalence will vary with market prices, not
> > just EV efficiency - based on the kwh from the Avcon (no energy
> > metering on-board), PG&E rates at $0.12/kwh, and gas at $2.69, my
> > Ranger's 350wt-hrs/mi would equal 64mpg, but when gas was as high as
> > $3.29, it would have been over 77mpg.
>
> I suppose you guys understand that what you are discussing is not
> mpg-equivalence except with respect to *cost*?
>
> Just to make sure that it is clear to others:
>
> A gallon of gasoline contains about 124,000BTU or 36.17kWh of energy
> (not a number I'm wedded to, just one of the first I came across in a
> quick web search).
>
> An EV that consumes 350Wh/mi is the *energy* equivalent of about 103mpg
> (36.17kWh/gal / 0.350kWh/mi).
>
> What it *costs* for this energy in electrical form vs gasoline form will
> vary from place to place and time to time, but the energy equivalent mpg
> remains unchanged (just as the mpg of an ICE vehicle remains the same
> regardless of what the cost of fuel happens to be at the time and place
> you happen to fuel it up).
>
> Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > After four days of driving or 20 miles, my percentage of
> > charge is still at or above 80%. I charge for 60 minutes
> > at average of 30 amps at 240 volts, so that is 7.2kw. We
> > pay 0.10 per kw which comes to $0.72 for 20 miles or
> > $0.036 per mile.
> >
> > Gasoline is now at $2.69 a gallon which makes this equal
> > to 74.7 mpg.
>
> On an energy basis, you consumed 7.2kWh for 20mi of travel, which is
> 360W/mi. This is equivalent to about 100mpg in terms of energy
> consumption.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I solve the problem of charging or mainly keeping the battery temperature up
when it got below 0, when I was working.
I notice that the street lights were 240 volts, so I contacted the power
company who installs and maintain them, to be able to install a drop from
the street light circuit to a pole next to the fence in the parking lot.
Even if the overhead lighting was 480 volts, they can center tap the
transformer which will be 240 volts circuit they can run to your charging
station.
I provided the pole (which you can buy from them), and combination meter
base and 2 pole 20 amp circuit breaker. They install the pole and
connected to the overhead service.
I was limited to 20 amp because the overhead wire to the street light was
only rated at that ampere. Sometimes, the street light circuits may be a
No. 6 or 4 AWG where you could use up to 50 amps.
I was charge at a industrial rate (the same rate the street lights are
charge) of $0.01 per KW. My base rate (no usage) was $1.75 a month and my
highest usage was $6.25 a month.
Just contact your power company and ask them you want to install a charging
station for a electric vehicle.
They was able to tap of the street light circuit, because I would be at work
only the day time only and or not used it if I am there at night.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: Workplace charging
> > At my last workplace, I found a neighboring house (just off the edge
> > of the parking lot) who's owner was perfectly happy to let me run a
> > (locked) extension cord to the lot, and pay him $20/month for the
> electricity.
> >
>
> I wish this was possible with the Avcon in my Ranger, but I'd have to
> figure out how to take generic 240V... and then find 240V to use! One
> of these days, maybe I can solder up my unopened signal generator kit
> and wire it into the Avcon handle/cable to see if that will fake out
> the circuit that protects me from myself. Then I'd have to approach
> someone in the over-managed corporation I work for and find out if
> there is any way to get access to the 240V they hide behind a chain
> link fence! And no friendly neighbors in the part of town where I
> work...guess I'll have a few thousand less miles on this pack than if
> I *could* charge at work. Right now it's almost 8000 miles in just
> under a year of driving (the NiMH version I leased topped 35K before
> it was towed away, performing as good as the day I got it).
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In Europe we can buy a GM sports car which is a re-styled and re-engined Lotus
Elise (The car on which the Tesla is based). This is badged a Vauxhall VX220 in
the UK and an Opel Speedster in Europe.
Opel built a 1300cc common rail turbo diesel version using a tuned engine out
of the Corsa diesel model to use for record breaking in order to promote their
diesel range. This had a top speed of 160mph and acieved 111mpg (English
gallon) and one averaged 140mph for 24 hrs.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/motoring/advertorials/vauxhall_performance_diesel.html
Geoff
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David,
So many Lithium myths on this list.
Yup. Which are the myths? What are the facts?
Puncture a stock laptop Li-Ion and it bursts in to flames.
Good data point. You have done this, right? So it is not a myth?
Cliff you are using Lithium Polymer cells, the gel they are in is not in
itself flammable, try exposing one and getting it wet.
I have done this. No flames. No bubbling. The cell was pretty much dead when
I opened it. Will this make a difference?
Two reasons why I have not ordered a Tesla, first they are left hand drive
but I would not buy a car using stock laptop cells. All it takes is one of
the 7000 cells to be faulty and, you will be killed.
Really? One cell faulty and you will be killed? This seems kind of extreme.
You know this right, it is not one of those lithium myths you were talking
about?
BTW Do you drive a gas car? Is gasoline flammable or even worse, explosive?
(Oops. Sorry, that was a bit inflammatory<G>.)
Hey Cliff, you were so lucky in that incident (although that cell would
have
been toast, you caught that just in time.
Sadly, it has happened more than once. I guess I must just be blessed with
luck. Or maybe the cells are not prone to bursting into flames. This is what
Kokam claims. http://www.kokam.com/english/product/kokam_safety_02.html
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter wrote on
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: New GM electric car
> For what it's worth, my F250 Super Duty (translation, really big pickup
> truck) gets way over 500 miles per tank, I guess that makes it as fuel
> efficient as your hybrid ;-)
Hmmm, my F250 HD (diesel) gets about 1,200 miles per fill up.... and it sure
hurts to fill her up ---- OUCH!
So I need to get my EV running!
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The L-91 is the highest horsepower 6.7" ADC motor but the X-91 produces more
torque per amp. Running at 120 volts the X-91 puts out 102 ft/lbs of torque
at 450 amps while the L-91 only puts out 72 ft/lbs. The X-91 has a higher
com bar count than the L-91 and is more efficient at higher voltages. The
A89 now called the A-00 is the little brother to the K-91. The K-91 is about
an inch longer and has wider brushes than the A-00. The A-00 and the K-91
each have four brushes. The L-91 and the X-91 each have eight brushes and
share a common brush holder with the eight inch ADC 203-06-4001 motor as
they all have the same diameter com. I hope this helps.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: L91 vs. K91 vs A89
hi Lawrence,
The K motor is wound for 72 volts, and is around 12 inch long or maybe 13
inch. I orginally bought the L motor for my beast but it turned out to be
15-16 inch long. The L motor gives more revs per volt. it is the highest
powered motor for ADC for the 6.7 inch diameter motors. I am running the K
in about two weeks time on 120 volts, although, i think i will prob
overheat
the motor somewhat, so will advance the motor as well. Check
www.evmotors.com.au for some specs and applications.
Cheers
On 22/09/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I thought the A89 was the little brother of the L91. Is the K91 an
inbetween motor? From the pictures the L looks longer. I thought the
L91
single shaft was the next size up. If the K & L are the same size are
they
just wound differently for more or less volts. Can you run the A89
through
K91 at 120v successfully? At 120v Would the K be the same HP as the L?
I
only need single shaft. I thought the L came with a single
shaft. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.ulpgc.es/hege/almacen/download/41/41028/01189229.pdf
http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/pdf/switchedcap.pdf#search=%22magnetic-less%20DC-DC%22
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From Garrison Keillor in the Writer's Almanac.
It's the birthday of the English scientist Michael Faraday (
http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,ibe,dv,9tar,meha,4kn9,f4bs
), born in Newington, Surrey, England (1791). In 1831, he found that
when he moved a magnet through a coil of wire, an electric current was
produced. The process was called electromagnetic induction, and
Faraday's discovery led to the electric generator, the heart of the
modern power plant.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For anyone interested you can download this radio programme via:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/inbusiness/inbusiness.shtml
Regards
Geoff
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I solve the problem of charging or mainly keeping the battery
temperature up
> when it got below 0, when I was working.
>
So how far was your commute?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gents,
This morning on the way to work in my USE truck with the new Nicad
pack, I was right behind a semi truck going from Berryessa to 237 on
680. There is a very flat portion of road there. I was about 5 car
lengths behind this semi. On the highway I turn off regen. When I let
off of the throttle, the current draw was only 3 amps with about 280v
pack volts. Which is what it takes to run the system and headlights. My
speed did not decrease. In fact MY truck kept creeping closer and
closer to the semi. My eyes got very big! The semi was sucking my truck
towards him! 60 mph on 3 amps!!! Wow! This went on for at least a mile
up and down the tiniest of grades. The only thing that interupted it
was an idiot that wanted to get in between me and the semi so I had to
back off.
When I got to work my ah's used was 12.7 compared to 14-14.5ah or so,
and that's with headlights running in 55F air temperature!
A whole new sport is born. Instead of drifting, it will be drafting :)
Mike
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Do they not make chargers that will accept both 240V and 120V? Could probably
find a normal outlet to plug into. Seems like something everyone would use.
Wouldnt charge as fast, but would get you something...
Aaron Richardson
On Friday 22 September 2006 12:02 am, Death to All Spammers wrote:
> > At my last workplace, I found a neighboring house (just off the edge
> > of the parking lot) who's owner was perfectly happy to let me run a
> > (locked) extension cord to the lot, and pay him $20/month for the
>
> electricity.
>
>
> I wish this was possible with the Avcon in my Ranger, but I'd have to
> figure out how to take generic 240V... and then find 240V to use! One
> of these days, maybe I can solder up my unopened signal generator kit
> and wire it into the Avcon handle/cable to see if that will fake out
> the circuit that protects me from myself. Then I'd have to approach
> someone in the over-managed corporation I work for and find out if
> there is any way to get access to the 240V they hide behind a chain
> link fence! And no friendly neighbors in the part of town where I
> work...guess I'll have a few thousand less miles on this pack than if
> I *could* charge at work. Right now it's almost 8000 miles in just
> under a year of driving (the NiMH version I leased topped 35K before
> it was towed away, performing as good as the day I got it).
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you'll love these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120034842609
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120034844199
(or http://tinyurl.com/qzdff and http://tinyurl.com/q7fcr)
Check out the "new" images. Enough said.
Cheers,
Claudio
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Happy Birthday Mr. Faraday, and thank you!
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >From Garrison Keillor in the Writer's Almanac.
>
> It's the birthday of the English scientist Michael Faraday (
> http://www.elabs7.com/c.html?rtr=on&s=fj6,ibe,dv,9tar,meha,4kn9,f4bs
> ), born in Newington, Surrey, England (1791). In 1831, he found that
> when he moved a magnet through a coil of wire, an electric current was
> produced. The process was called electromagnetic induction, and
> Faraday's discovery led to the electric generator, the heart of the
> modern power plant.
>
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jerryd wrote:
One could use raw standard lead acid cells from say a
T-105-145 put into a composite center tube, only being 7"
high with composite webs separating the cells electrically.
One should be able to buy individual cells for a lot less
that assembled ones. This is how older lead batteries were built.
Big industrial EV batteries are still made this way. Individual cells,
stuffed into a big steel box. The cells are individually replaceable.
In fact, this may be the way to test the idea. Get a big industrial
battery box. Weld your suspension, motor mounting brackets, etc.
directly to it, so it becomes the frame of your car. Now drop in the
industrial battery cells (each of which only needs a plastic bag or
something around it to keep it together and insulate it from the steel).
Add inter-cell jumpers. Glue or clamp on the top. Now you have a
structural battery box!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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That kind of image stabilization is easy with the vibration isolation
that is used now for filming everything. You see it strapped to the
cameraman and the camera is mounted off to his side. I forget the
brand name. It was invented maybe 10-15 years ago.
The tire squeal came from the same sound bite each time. Tire squeal
changes depending on oversteer or understeer. It never changed during
the video.
Still a great video. Just a little amatuerish in post production.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "paul compton \(RRes-Roth\)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Rendezvous is indeed a famous film, but the scary thing about it is not
> the driving, but just how bad most peoples observation must be to not
> spot the fact that the film is a FAKE! If they drive on the road with
> this lack of attention then help us all, although part of the problem is
> that you want to believe. The VERY first time I watched this I thought
> it looked wrong.
>
> The car is meant to be a Ferrari 275 GTB, but there's no way you'd get a
> picture that steady using a 70's Ferrari as a camera platform. It even
> smoothly mounts a kerb at one point. The car also shows no sign during
> the film of any oversteer, so definitely NOT a 70's Ferrari! The
> soundtrack is very well done, but there appear to be SIX upchanges
> during one sequence. NOTICE how there is little reaction from other
> vehicles or pedestrians!
>
> MOST damning of all and absolute proof;
>
> The sequence along the Champs Elysee takes about 1 minute (taken from
> the DVD time signature) and the distance travelled is approx. 1.6Km or
> ONE mile. Now even with my maths, one mile in one minute is 60mph and
> this is one of the fastest sequences in the film. A friend of mine has
> been in a convoy of Minis doing that speed along the Champs Elysee in
> middle of the day!
>
> As for running red lights? Well, this is Paris after all, the road
> markings and lights are really only suggestions.
>
> The car is almost certainly a Citroen, either a CX or DS, but I suppose
> it could have been an SM. Even with modern electronic image
> stabilisation a Citroen with oleo-pneumatic suspension is still a
> popular choice as a camera platform. The camera was mounted very low and
> the soundtrack is very well done, but watch it as if you were the
> driver.
>
> Paul Compton
> www.evguru.co.uk
>
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Wow, look how skillfully he has photoshopped out any indication that the
car is sitting in china.
LOL
> you'll love these:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120034842609
> and
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120034844199
>
> (or http://tinyurl.com/qzdff and http://tinyurl.com/q7fcr)
>
> Check out the "new" images. Enough said.
>
> Cheers,
> Claudio
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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>
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 3:23, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Current production methods mostly crack hydrocarbons, but there are
>>> other ways to get H2. The cost of production need not be double that
>>> of
>>> gas. Especially if gas goes up.
>>
>> Well, if what you start with is basically gasoline, how do you figure
>> it
>> won't cost more than gasoline when you add processing to it?
>>
>
> Because you don't start with basically gasoline. Most hydrogen is
> gotten out of methane - natural gas. Gasoline is a refined product,
> natural gas is not.
True for current production. However, as I understand it, there is not
enough natural gas available to produce enough hydrogen to power a
significant number of vehicles, which means they would have to crack some
other hydrocarbon, which from all indications would be some kind of
petroleum product.
>
>> The reason that 99.9% of hydrogen is made by cracking hydrocarbon, is
>> because that is the cheapest way to make it. All other methods would
>> cost
>> even MORE.
>> Personally, I think double the cost of gasoline is optimistic.
>>
>
>
>
>> The biggest runner up to hydrocarbon cracking is cracking water, which
>> uses electricity. Using the electricity to propell the vehicle
>> directly
>> (via batteries) is far more efficient.
>>
>
> Via batteries is not directly either, though. But the point is well
> taken, that you could do that, right now, more cheaply. We already know
> the limitations. That's why you do technology demonstrations, and
> research. To learn things.
>
> The closed minded are not interested, though. I don't know why gm just
> didn't throw some golf cart batteries in an Equinox and call it a day.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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My only experience is with an R/C LiPo pack. I heard that there is more
risk of fire during charging vs discharging. Well, they were
over-discharged on one flight because the speed controller default was
not as specified. I got a few more cycles on them but during one
charging cycle, I heard popping. I went over and started dragging it
out of the shop as it continued to pop. As I got it out, it started to
pop more and smoke. Within a minute or so, it went up in flames. I
went thru two fire extinguishers in vain, and it kept burning and
smoking for about 20 minutes. Since then, I noticed that there are
metal or ceramic "charging boxes" for these batteries so that if
charging goes bad, it is contained. This was completely preventable by
not over-discharging, and by careful monitoring of each cell during
charge and discharge with the cell taps available. The cell taps are
also used to balance the cells after each use and each charge cycle to
maintain a healthy pack. It would not be difficult to have a bunch of
microcontrollers monitoring each cell voltage and controlling the
charge/discharge to prevent damage or danger. This would be a nice
feature for any battery pack.
gary
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This one has a 3mm turning radius. Gotta love that!
Mike
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120034842609
> and
>
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He also has 2 red ones listed. Just click on View Sellers Other Items.
Other than pictures, all ads are identical. At least he shows 55kph as top
speed this time (approx 35 mph). Bet it's actually 25mph so it's an NEV. If
it exists at all....
From: "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: If you liked the "Strange EV on eBay" thread...
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:52:59 +1000
you'll love these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120034842609
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120034844199
(or http://tinyurl.com/qzdff and http://tinyurl.com/q7fcr)
Check out the "new" images. Enough said.
Cheers,
Claudio
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On 9/22/06, Claudio Natoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
you'll love these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120034842609
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120034844199
(or http://tinyurl.com/qzdff and http://tinyurl.com/q7fcr)
Check out the "new" images. Enough said.
Hah, brilliant. The seller must be reading this list. All the
chinese writing and shop fronts have been covered up (rather crudely)
in Paint or something :)
These could be rather decent little EVs and probably cost a fraction
of a proper Daimler-whatever Smart. No point offering them to the US,
but they could probably go through "single vehicle approval" here in
the UK or some other European countries, to be made road legal and
registered.
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On 9/22/06, David Ankers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So many Lithium myths on this list.
The Tesla has me concerned. What happened with the Laptop cells could easily
happen with the Tesla, despite their futuristic BMS. All it takes is one bad
cell to *internally* short. Do you think Dell didn't extensive protection
circuits? The problems they experienced were internal shorts from mistakes
in manufacturing.
Why don't you listen to the designer's answers to these "concerns" -
i.e. in the radio interview that I linked to yesterday, or the various
discussions on their web pages. Instead of inventing more myths ;)
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