EV Digest 6264
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) ev milestones
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: efficiency comparison - 2 speed gearbox or series/parallel
by "Robert Blasutig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: ev milestones
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: AltairNano Completes ORDER to Phoenix Motorcar
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Rats attacking EV wiring (was Hairball control wire sizing
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) And this motor?
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: AltairNano Completes ORDER to Phoenix Motorcar
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Newbie questions (batteries)
by "Roger Johnsonbaugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) 1912 Bergman electric on Ebay for restoration
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Battery Beach Burnout & EAA 6th EVer conference update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ron Freund)
12) Re: And this motor?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: efficiency comparison - 2 speed gearbox or series/parallel
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Caps
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) 36volt Cursis usable with 40volts?
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Newbie questions (batteries)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 36volt Cursis usable with 40volts?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Caps
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Rats attacking EV wiring (was Hairball control wire sizing
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: AltairNano Completes ORDER to Phoenix Motorcar
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 36volt Cursis usable with 40volts?
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: The 1200V Zilla market
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: efficiency comparison - 2 speed gearbox or series/parallel
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Caps
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Newbie questions (batteries)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
26) Potential EV Chasis on e-bay
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: efficiency comparison - 2 speed gearbox or series/parallel
by "Robert Blasutig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: efficiency comparison - 2 speed gearbox or series/parallel
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Current Eliminator news
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Add to Address Book
Date: 2006/12/30 Sat AM 10:26:36 EST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Re: EV Milestones for 2006
For me a mile stone happened just this week ,, Don brought his s10 with the 13
" net gain motor to my "shop in the woods" . The motor sits about 1 foot in
front of the big 9" ford rear ,, ( the rear has disk brakes and has been
shortened and a 4.7 gear put in ) . Everything was done except for the wiring
.. This was my first time hooking up the series parellel and the
forward/reverse contactors. It wasn't so hard , had to reset the hair ball and
toggle on the s/p and f/r . The 13" motor has extra coils in the field so the
field coils could be s/p . Don has the 2k 348v controller inside the cab ,
not something I'd do but with the dash gone there is a lot of room and I think
he's going to build somthing around it ... With the truck on jack stands and 1
battery we could see a big difference with switching the field in s / p ,.He
has 28 hawker oddessey 1500 batteries which are a little smaller than orbitals
. Got to do a little test driving ,, batteries not broken in but it will go ...
Now if I could get my Porsche 12 with the two 9" doing the s/ p dance before
the new year ,,
Happy new year all and lets make this the " Year of the Electric Car "
Steve Clunn
>
> From: "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2007/01/02 Tue AM 10:23:11 EST
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: The 1200V Zilla market
>
> If your looking to go that high-end, you would be better off going with an
> AC system. You can find them either with Ac Propulsion or Metric Mind.
>
> http://www.metricmind.com/index1.htm
>
> http://www.acpropulsion.com/technology/gen2.htm
>
> Brandon
>
> On 1/2/07, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Sure; 858 hp from the current model is really impressive, I agree.
> > What I wonder though is: would a 1200V model potentially appeal to
> > NASCAR, F1, etc. types? Could a model with this much power potential
> > spur additional interest and innovation?
> >
> > As it is, the item in question does not exist. If it did exist; would
> > great things happen as a direct result of it existing?
> >
> > What could be done with a 1200V Zilla that currently cannot be done?
> > Is there an existing non EV market that is electric that could and
> > would utilize this motor controller if it was available?
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Batteries don't like to be under/slowly charged. It's better to charge
slowly than not at all but the regen charging would be a way to charge
underway. Sailboats have a lot of power available underway and Jerry Dycus
idea to use the system in reverse is a great idea. Side loading won't be a
concern if you bolster the shaft connection. If you get a regen controller
like a Zappy you should be able to use your prop to capture enough energy to
charge under way. Yes it will slow you down but you're just slogging away
with the boat you have. What's a quarter knot? Losing the diesel would be
worth it. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Hannah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for the replies. The boat is a 38' steel, and quite heavy at
> approx 9t fully loaded (inc 1t of water and fuel.)
>
> I've decided (unless I change my mind :) ) that I'm going with 48v,
> 4x12v 80w solar and a wind generator of some kind. My calculations
> (assisted from another email) indicate this should fully charge a
> 220Ah bank in about 30-40hrs.
>
> I'm not planning on using a genset of any kind -- this may be a bad
> decision. We are pretty stubborn and will grit our teeth and sail, so
> have yet to run the engine more than a few hours in one stretch. So
> far I don't think we would have required any more than a single charge
> in one leg.
>
> You mention regenerative charging -- we're very interested in this and
> will want to make any system we put in place handle this.
>
> I need to decide on gearing options... Everyone seems to be gearing
> down, so my initial idea of bolting direct to the shaft appear to be
> wrong. One common option seems to be to use a belt between the motor
> and shaft, which will require a bearing being mounted at the motor
> side (currently the only bearing on the shaft is at the prop end.) If
> it were possible to bolt the motor direct to the shaft and mount is in
> place, then we could probably do away with the side-pull caused by a
> belt (I'm a bit concerned about this as I don't know what the issues
> are going to be long-term.)
>
> Re the person suggesting veg oil for the diesel -- one of the primary
> reasons for removing the diesel is that we don't know enough to
> maintain it properly (and would rather find an alternative than learn
> :) ), just don't like it, noisy, smelly, etc, etc. I really want to
> sell it off and never see it again!
>
> My thinking currently for the house bank is to charge them from the
> 48v bank via a 48v/12v dc/dc converter and the current small 12v solar
> panel.
>
> thanks for everyones help,
> Paul.
>
> On 1/2/07, jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Myles and All,
> >
> > ----- Original Message Follows -----
> > From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Subject: RE: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
> > Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:29:15 -0800
> >
> > >Wind, solar and hydro aren't the only ways to recharge
> > >underway. And on a sailboat, may not come close to the
> > >alternatives.
> >
> > Hydro is the way on a sailboat by using the prop as a
> > rotor to turn the shunt/PM motor to use it as a gen. Are you
> > all not doing this yet? I mentioned it 10 yrs ago and
> > several times since.
> > Especially using PM or AC motors, you can just use a
> > regn controller like the Sevcon to buck up the gen output to
> > the battery voltage. It works especially well with flat
> > pitched sailboat props.
> > So while sailing or anchored in a current, you can
> > charge all you want ;^D While this isn't eff, there is so
> > much power available, most boats will need to keep it turned
> > off most of the time. And recharge while sailing too.
> > It should work great in SF bay for powerboats,
> > anchor in the tide going the wrong way recharging, then go
> > with the tide and tidal powered EV charge you could travel
> > from Maine to Key West using no other fuel!!
> > That's how my next boats fuel, house power will
> > work and will even have AC for the Fla summer!! As soon as
> > the Freedom is launched, I'm selling my home, building a new
> > cat or outrigger and moving back onboard ;^D
> > But back to his problem, without knowing what boat
> > he is using, it's performance, his sailing skill and how he
> > plans to use it, not much can be recommended that means
> > anything. Maybe he will tell us?
> > And for a gen, I would never use any but a DC gen
> > for battery charging, preferably a diesel.
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> >
> > If you can get by with 2HP or less, a Honda
> > >2kw genset will deliver 1.6kw continuously to a charger.
> > >I use that on my boat, along with enough onboard chargers
> > >to deliver 40amps to my 36v pack while underway. While
> > >that's only enough for my 4000# bargeboat to do a bit over
> > >4knots, a similar size/weight sailboat hull would do even
> > >better. So at under 1/4gallon per hour for those emergency
> > >situations, a genset/charger arrangement can get you to
> > >port. If I'm going more than 25miles in a day, I always
> > >bring mine along. Go ahead, throw the noisy diseasel
> > >overboard...or get a much smaller diesel genset to replace
> > >it with when you go electric.
> > >
> > >As mentioned by Rod, those interested in boat conversions
> > >might do well to check out the Electric Boats list on
> > >Yahoo.
> > >
> > >-Myles Twete, moderator, Electric Boats list
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, so that my question doesn't end up looking silly, I'm coming from a road
racing perspective. Seeing that EV's have proven that they can be fast at
the strip and autox, I was looking at the mother of all proving grounds (in
my opinion at least), the Nurburgring. Noticed that with the load of
batteries most of the folks here use, 1 lap wouldn't be completed (almost 13
miles/21 km). I'm assuming the same drop in range as a gas vehicle once you
start putting your foot down. Also that the usual energy on board is 6-10
kwh.
So, if really the only difference comes in to having an engine in its peak
efficiency range more often vs driveline losses, that clears things up for
me. Kind of bums me out though that there is no holy grail to doubling your
range ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>28 hawker oddessey 1500 batteries which are a little smaller than orbitals
that should have been 1200 ,, not 1500 which are a little bigger . \
steve clunn
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Independent entitys are testing the batteries as we speak.
On 1/2/07, Kaido Kert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 1/2/07, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think I even read they're good for > 10000 full discharge cycles? But I
> can't remember where I read that. Anyone else see it?
>
>
> Brandon
20 000
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/12/altair_nanotech.html#more
quote:
The NanoSafe batteries charge in less than 10 minutes, have a power
density of 4 kW/kg, have 85% charge retention at 20,000 cycles, will
not explode and have no thermal runaway, according to the company.
/quote
This, of course, is according to the company. From what i understand
only the company itself and Phoenix Motorcars are now in possession of
these batteries, no independent entity has them and is able to verify
their claims so far.
-kert
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If rats do not like light, then how about a bright flashing LED's that will
work off 9 to 12 volts. Could keep it on all the time while the ignition is
off.
You could get a starter kit from www.allelectronics.com for $2.25 which
comes with a red LED, but could change that out to a bright white LED's and
build a voltage divider to come of a 12 volt source.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: Rats attacking EV wiring (was Hairball control wire sizing
> Here is what is done around here -
>
> - get some cats or dogs...
> - Antifreeze in small containers on the engine block to poison the rats,
> but if they die in the engine compartment then it tends to smell...
> - There is a spray that a local 'rats r us' store sells that supposedly
> stops the rats from eating wire if you spray it on, tired it and just
> didn't like spraying something unknown.
> - Hang a light in the compartment, rats don't like light. Got to be a drag
> to turn it on and off daily.
> - drive it daily to move it...
> - just prop open the hood by about a foot or so, they don't like light and
> the circulation of air makes it hot and cold, not condusive for a 'home'.
>
> So after trying them all, the best and easiest for me is prop open the
> hood (but I have to tie the hood down against the prop cause the wind
> would pick up the hood and blow it back).
>
> It also helps to clear all the nests within a 100 ft radius, and keep them
> cleared out. They are very persistent animals.
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
> www.Airphibian.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For stage one (minimal budget, city car, max speed 40mph, 2000lbs car,
36volts) is this motor usable? http://tinyurl.com/w3bfn
thanks,
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://e.nn.cl | Weird Al
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Moore of EV World was talking with Dr. Gotcher, CEO of Altair
Nanotechnologies. Gotcher mentioned to Bill Moore that a **cell** in
the Altair labs has been recycled 20,000 times and still had a residual
capacity of 85%. The conversation occurred at the Boston ASPO dinner
meeting. Bill stated this in an EV World Insider newsletter.
However, when you start to put cells together to form a battery, cycle
life tends to go down. A 20,000 cycle battery (as opposed to a cell)
would be a 2.6 million mile pack at an average of 135 miles per cycle.
The battery warranty on the Phoenix site is 250,000 miles/12+ years.
Just a factor of 10 less. Warranties tend to be conservative.
The contract for the initial order was for $750,000 for 10 vehicles. I
could see where someone would come up with $75K for each pack. However,
the cars have a price point of $45,000.
Nick: Is your quote of approximately $14K per for a 35 kWh pack
correct? ($14K for a pack / 250K miles = 5.6 cents / mile.)
250Kmiles/135mile per cycle = 1851 cycles.
Peter
Brandon Kruger wrote:
I think I even read they're good for > 10000 full discharge cycles?
But I
can't remember where I read that. Anyone else see it?
Brandon
On 1/1/07, Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 01, 2007 at 11:24:43PM +0200, Kaido Kert wrote:
> A commenter on the Energy Blog set the record straight on the cost of
> the batteries:
> http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/12/altairnano_comp.html
> quote:
> NO, the battery packs do NOT cost $75,000
> apiece. They cost approximately $14,000 each.
Is this $14,000 for a 35 kWh pack with BMS that lasts > 10000 cycles?
This seems like a great deal!
Where do I sign?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been reading about batteries for about 8 months now and I
know about as much as I did when I started.
I am in the planning stages of a 94 S-10 conversion. I will be using a
siemens A/C drive from MetricMind, and I am hoping
I will be able to fit 29 group 31 lead acid batteries in it. (Other
chemistries would be nice, but the control/protection circuits
are over my head at the moment.) So the question is: Flooded, Gel, AGM?
Brand names: Deka(same as MK?), Trojan, Lifeline
The list goes on. The manufacturer's claims seem to be fairly similar, and
I am wondering if these batteries actually perform
as advertised. I am hoping for some real world experience to help me with a
choice. I could go on for a while with a bunch of
disjointed questions, but I would rather let you guys and/or gals tell me
what you want to tell me.
Thanks for your input,
Roger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
Appologies if people already know about this but there's a 1912
Bergman Electric Lorry on Ebay UK.
Any rich fairy godfathers out there need a new project? http://
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190066821988
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Happy New Year EVDLers,
The first major EVent of the New Year is just days away, so
you'll need to act quickly to lock-in the low hotel rates
and airfares. Everyone is invited to attend; for those who
live in colder areas, this will be a welcome break since
Florida has pleasant weather in January.
Racing fans will be treated to an evening of excitement at
the Moroso Motorsports track "MidNight Madness" EVent on
Friday night (Jan 26th). ProEV's 'Electric Imp'
(www.ProEV.com) will be one of the featured cars. Powered
by twin Siemens AC motors and Kokam lithium batteries, this
car is sure to live up to its "Impreza" name. Also featured
at the track will be Matt Graham's "Joule Injected" Nissan
240SX (www.jouleinjected.com) and Shawn Lawless is planning
to bring his electric dragster from Ohio.
The 'Electric Imp' is scheduled to race again on Saturday
Jan 27th at the autocross to be held on the Florida Atlantic
University campus. A gasoline powered super-charged Acura
NSX has been invited to race against the 'Electric Imp'
(the Imp is expected to win). Several other racing EVents
including an electric scooter-cross are also scheduled.
Bill Dube (www.KillaCycle.com) will be our keynote speaker
at the Saturday night awards banquet. On Sunday Jan. 28th,
the Electric Auto Association will hold their 6th EVer
conference on the FAU campus. The theme of the conference
this year will be EV education and members of EAA chapters
from all over the USA and Canada are planning to attend.
The conference agenda is listed on the website of the
hosting chapter:
http://floridaeaa.org/modules/content/index.php?id=13
The EAA will also host a "meet and greet" session on Friday
evening for an opportunity to get acquainted or re-acquainted
with their fellow EVers. There will be ample opportunities
over the weekend for those who have only met via email to
meet face-to-face. Registration for both EVents is
free and those who pre-register will receive "official pit
passes" for admission to the racing EVents.
The preferred hotel for the weekend is the Comfort Inn of
Jupiter, FL., where a block of rooms has been reserved.
For those on a budget, another block of rooms at the Days
Inn has been reserved at a lower rate, but the rooms in
that block need to be booked by Jan. 5th. Check out the
website link above for more information.
We're all looking forward to seeing you there.
Ron Freund, Chair
and the Board of Directors
Electric Auto Association
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello, again, Eduardo,
This one looks like a 4 HP motor. About the same size as that last one. And
again, probably not enough to make you happy with that car. You might be able
to push the motor by using higher voltage and force ventilation, and shift a
lot. Cars that use this size motor are about half your weight.
Jeff
Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
For stage one (minimal budget, city car, max speed 40mph, 2000lbs car,
36volts) is this motor usable? http://tinyurl.com/w3bfn
thanks,
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://e.nn.cl | Weird Al
|
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To be competitive in a road race with an EV, you really must have
regen. If you capture the braking energy, the battery pack size
decreases drastically in road race type driving.
The ER3 made the top of Pikes Peak without a problem.
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/pikes_peak_ER3.html
They didn't have all-wheel drive, so they threw away more
than half of the available braking energy!
The car is still around. It would make a very good road racing car.
Bill Dube'
At 09:15 AM 1/2/2007, you wrote:
Ok, so that my question doesn't end up looking silly, I'm coming from a road
racing perspective. Seeing that EV's have proven that they can be fast at
the strip and autox, I was looking at the mother of all proving grounds (in
my opinion at least), the Nurburgring. Noticed that with the load of
batteries most of the folks here use, 1 lap wouldn't be completed (almost 13
miles/21 km). I'm assuming the same drop in range as a gas vehicle once you
start putting your foot down. Also that the usual energy on board is 6-10
kwh.
So, if really the only difference comes in to having an engine in its peak
efficiency range more often vs driveline losses, that clears things up for
me. Kind of bums me out though that there is no holy grail to doubling your
range ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan,
Check out
http://www.earthtoys.com/emagazine.php?issue_number=04.04.01&article=dragster
, the BYU ultracap EV1.
Ultracapacitors can do the job, for a short while. As technology advances,
ultracaps will improve energy density, perhaps at a faster rate than batteries.
They have several advantages over batteries such as cycle life, cold
temperature performance and efficiency, but fall short on energy density.
Power density is great. Ultracaps will find a place in hybrid electric
vehicles and maybe EVs, possibly in conjunction with batteries.
Jeff
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm sure you all have seen and handled one of those 1 Farad caps at
Best Buy or some other such store. Here is one(looks like two..) that
is 24V, 3 Farads:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7194662&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat28900050010&id=1112808825201
Now that big one they are supposed to be building down in Texas(3500V,
30 Farads), is there anyway we could build something like that in the
mean time by stringing together a bunch of these big(small?) caps?
How much range could be had?
How much range is that 3500V one going to offer?
Can someone use MSPaint and draw a line representing your estimated
discharge rate of it? Will it look something like this: \ ? AKA:
Not a linear discharge?
Are big, ultra, super capacitors of various names the future of EV's?
Do these types of devices hold any potential in being the primary
power source in an EV?
---------------------------------
Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people
who know.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whats the tolerance for a 36v Curtis Controller?
(6 volts batts are out of stock in the entire country. but 8 volts
are in stock... can I run a 36 volts system on 5x8 volts)
Thanks.
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://e.nn.cl | Weird Al
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Roger,
If you want a very long range and life, then use a 6 volt battery.
Use only a standard post or a large flag post, not the low profile stud
posts.
Use a battery with enough ampere-hour, so your daily range only uses
one-half the ampere-hour of the battery. Example: If a EV uses 2 ah per
mile, than a 100 ah battery will get you to 50 miles.
If open cell pb flooded battery, then use individual locking caps with a
O-ring seal. No gang type push on caps.
The specific gravity should be at least 1.275 sg at 100%.
Battery should be able to accepted a maximum bulk charge of 7.5 volts for a
6 volt or 15 volts for a 12 volt.
The battery should be rated for a charge rating of 20 percent of the
ampere-hour of the battery. If a battery is a 200 ah rating, then it should
be able to accept a 40 amp charge.
The battery cases should be a heavy reinforce type that does not bowl out
like a thin case does.
There should be strap insert on the top of the battery, so you can install
batteries next to each other.
When you order a pack of batteries, you specific that you want a balance
pack. This will weed out the manufactures that don't do this. You should at
the minimum get a pack of batteries that the voltages are in with 0.001 volt
of each other.
Make sure all batteries have the same manufacture date.
Upon delivery of the batteries, you will only accept the batteries that are
in with your voltage balance specifications, the correct specific gravity
and a load rating performance test. The load rating can be perform in the
EV for this test.
Also on acceptances of battery, look to see if any of the battery post have
a dark color. If it does, that means the post seal is leaking.
Some battery companies seem to be using a softer lead post, where the
battery clamp will mushroom the post when torque to the proper inch lbs.
Check the battery manufacture torque specifications.
I am using Trojans T-146's which now have been modified by the Trojan
company to 260 AH with a heavy duty post which I order on Jan 2002. They
all came in with my approved specifications with a voltage difference of
0.000 to 0.001 at 1.275 sg.
Today, five years later, and charging these batteries between 35 to 52 amps,
all the cells in 26 batteries are still in with .0001 V of each other and
four are in with .001 V of each other.
Should be able to get another 5 years out of them.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Johnsonbaugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject: Newbie questions (batteries)
> I have been reading about batteries for about 8 months now and
> I
> know about as much as I did when I started.
>
> I am in the planning stages of a 94 S-10 conversion. I will be using a
> siemens A/C drive from MetricMind, and I am hoping
>
> I will be able to fit 29 group 31 lead acid batteries in it. (Other
> chemistries would be nice, but the control/protection circuits
>
> are over my head at the moment.) So the question is: Flooded, Gel, AGM?
> Brand names: Deka(same as MK?), Trojan, Lifeline
>
> The list goes on. The manufacturer's claims seem to be fairly similar,
> and
> I am wondering if these batteries actually perform
>
> as advertised. I am hoping for some real world experience to help me with
> a
> choice. I could go on for a while with a bunch of
>
> disjointed questions, but I would rather let you guys and/or gals tell me
> what you want to tell me.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your input,
>
> Roger
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out the specs at http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm for the model in
question. I do know the series motor controllers for 36/48 volts will work
with any voltage inbetween. Also think about how you are going to charge the
batteries.
Jeff
Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Whats the tolerance for a 36v Curtis Controller?
(6 volts batts are out of stock in the entire country. but 8 volts
are in stock... can I run a 36 volts system on 5x8 volts)
Thanks.
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://e.nn.cl | Weird Al
|
---------------------------------
Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get
things done faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
I'm sure you all have seen and handled one of those 1 Farad caps at
Best Buy or some other such store. Here is one...
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7194662&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat28900050010&id=1112808825201
That's not a super cap; it's a plain old cheap electrolytic capacitor in
a fancy overpriced package.
Now that big one they are supposed to be building down in Texas (3500V,
30 Farads), is there anyway we could build something like that in the
mean time by stringing together a bunch of these big (small?) caps?
No. Completely different animal.
How much range could be had?
Negligible.
How much range is that 3500V one going to offer?
A bigger negligible number.
Can someone use MSPaint and draw a line representing your estimated
discharge rate of it? Will it look something like this: \ ? AKA:
Not a linear discharge?
At a constant discharge current, a capacitor's voltage has a constant
linear discharge to zero.
If you discharge it at constant *power*, the current has to rise as the
voltage falls; in this case, the voltage falls at an increasingly faster
rate.
Are big, ultra, super capacitors of various names the future of EV's?
Do these types of devices hold any potential in being the primary
power source in an EV?
No, and no. Supercapacitors have merit for supplying high peak currents
for a few seconds, to aid acceleration or handle high peak regenerative
braking current. But they will be useless for significant energy storage
(range) for the forseeable future.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
If rats do not like light, then how about a bright flashing LED's that will
work off 9 to 12 volts. Could keep it on all the time while the ignition is
off.
The problem with lights (or noises, or smells, or whatever) is that
animals get used to them. At first, they're scared off by their fear of
the unknown. But when nothing bad happens, they learn to ignore them.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 12:06:00PM -0500, Peter Eckhoff wrote:
<..snip..>
> However, when you start to put cells together to form a battery, cycle
> life tends to go down.
Interesting.
> A 20,000 cycle battery (as opposed to a cell)
> would be a 2.6 million mile pack at an average of 135 miles per cycle.
I'm sure the average miles per cycle will be MUCH less then that. 135 miles
is higher then the max range isn't it?
> The contract for the initial order was for $750,000 for 10 vehicles. I
> could see where someone would come up with $75K for each pack.
Another poster indicated that there are many nonrecurring costs built into the
price of the first packs.
> Nick: Is your quote of approximately $14K per for a 35 kWh pack
> correct?
Note that this was not my quote, it was from Kaido Kert.
> ($ 14K for a pack / 250K miles = 5.6 cents / mile.)
> 250Kmiles/135mile per cycle = 1851 cycles.
I think your miles per cycle figure is questionable.
Also, 250K miles sounds like another way of saying we don't know how long
this will last, but we do know that it'll be a very long time.
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I'm stuck with a 24/36V Curtis 1205 but have a motor that can deal
with more.
As a workaround, and probably only because I have a spare contactor,
I'm thinking of parelleling up the bypass contactor with another pair
of contactors which switch in another one or two batteries in series
with the main batteries.......I suspect speed control will be
like .....slow...steady....faster....bit faster.......too much ! But
it will get me out and about. An charging would need to be carefully
looked into due to unbalanced useage.
Chris
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Check out the specs at http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm for
the model in question. I do know the series motor controllers for
36/48 volts will work with any voltage inbetween. Also think about
how you are going to charge the batteries.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Whats the tolerance for a 36v Curtis Controller?
>
> (6 volts batts are out of stock in the entire country. but 8 volts
> are in stock... can I run a 36 volts system on 5x8 volts)
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Eduardo K. |
> http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
> http://e.nn.cl | Weird Al
> |
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful
email and get things done faster.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brandon wrote:
If your looking to go that high-end, you would be better off going with an
AC system.
The existing AC stuff just doesn't have the amps though. The high
power is just not there. It's all ~200 hp.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for that link, Bill, that was great to read an electric could do Pike's
Peak!
For dirt or otherwise slippery surface, all wheel drive (AWD) would definitely
be the way to go to grab all the regen braking you can, and would help
acceleration.
For a paved road course, though, front wheel drive (FWD) could be a competitive
technology. When you hit the brakes, you can have 80+% of the car's weight on
the front wheels -- so you can get about 80% of the available energy into regen
braking. Rear wheel drive (RWD), however, doesn't do so well -- there is
little weight on the rear wheels when braking. Getting back to FWD, the car
will be maybe 10% lighter than AWD, too. At autocross speeds, the extra
acceleration traction of AWD could help. At road racing speeds, the extra
weight of AWD would probably have the FWD outaccelerating it -- but the AWD
would grab more regen and have more energy to accelerate with -- it would make
for a great and interesting race.
I did the math, and for a poor, self-funded racer wannebe like myself road
racing is out of the question -- you need expensive advanced batteries. I
figure I can have fun with autocross, drag racing, and land speed on lead acid
batteries. Since regen isn't much help in these kinds of racing, I went with
RWD for a better launch. Well, enough talking, I should go fire up the used
plasma cutter I got for Christmas and do some more work on my conversion.
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2007 12:40:51 PM
Subject: Re: efficiency comparison - 2 speed gearbox or series/parallel
To be competitive in a road race with an EV, you really must have
regen. If you capture the braking energy, the battery pack size
decreases drastically in road race type driving.
The ER3 made the top of Pikes Peak without a problem.
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/pikes_peak_ER3.html
They didn't have all-wheel drive, so they threw away more
than half of the available braking energy!
The car is still around. It would make a very good road racing car.
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EEStor is the company with the storage cap claims.
I calc'ed out that at the suggested 52.22 KWH it would be the equivalent
of about 4-4.5 gals of gasoline. It could easily replace the gasoline
engine and the chemical battery. With a 280 lb projected weight, you
could easily carry more than one on a heavy chassis though we're
wondering where to get the electricity to even charge one in a short
period of time. Like any EV, with no exhaust or major cooling system
the vehicle's aerodynamics may be open for substantial improvements.
We have problems dealing with such a high voltage and such a wide
operating voltage range at these power levels. For example, a cap that
is full at 3500V is 92% drained when it drops to 1000V. So you have to
design for the ability to do low currents at 3500V and higher currents
at 1000V all in the same controller.
But it's all academic. Yes, the EEStor cap of this capacity, size,
weight, and cost would save the world. Yadda yadda yadda. The prob is
they don't have a product, haven't demonstrated a prototype, and don't
seem to have actually made one. I noticed their promised price would
mean that they would be able to build these super-ultra-mega caps for
like $1 per cap and seems barely possible to even assemble a module for
that price, much less mfg the caps to go in the assembly for dirt
cheap! It may be something that will pan out, or it may be yet another
tech scam. Either way there's nothing you can buy today. I know it's
easy to get hyped on its potential, but it's just too soon.
Danny
Jeff Major wrote:
How much range is that 3500V one going to offer?
Can someone use MSPaint and draw a line representing your estimated
discharge rate of it? Will it look something like this: \ ? AKA:
Not a linear discharge?
Are big, ultra, super capacitors of various names the future of EV's?
Do these types of devices hold any potential in being the primary
power source in an EV?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland,
I have one piece push-ons, don't like them, but they seem to work.
Cable routing was a real bugger, though.
They seem to contain the acid O.K.
Tell me a little more about the individual caps.
Thanks,
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<snip>
> If open cell pb flooded battery, then use individual locking caps with a
> O-ring seal. No gang type push on caps.
>
<snip>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Johnsonbaugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 11:41 AM
> Subject: Newbie questions (batteries)
>
>
> > I have been reading about batteries for about 8 months now and
> > I
> > know about as much as I did when I started.
> >
<snip>
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--- Begin Message ---
You know I like the Festiva. Here is a nice one, rust free with relatively low
mileage.
Item # 290067132324
I had the 92 and now have the 93 with 9" ADC motor. I think it makes a great
EV, but the chasis is hard to find. I don't know how long parts will be
available, but while its working, I'm going to keep driving it.
Steve
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, thanks Bill. 12kwh doing a hill climb. I'm impressed. I've been on
the fence with this EV stuff, but I think this sells it to me. Now to just
figure out if I want it to sound like a big block or F1 car ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill wrote -
>
> The ER3 made the top of Pikes Peak without a problem.
> http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/pikes_peak_ER3.html
>
> They didn't have all-wheel drive, so they threw away more
> than half of the available braking energy!
Mark made it to the top of Sandia Crest, NM, 10, 750 ft in his 144 v S-10
http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evmain.html
And somebody posted a link to an EV that made it over the Alps, it had regen in
it.
So EV's can overcome mountains...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis,
Where did you find a 13" ge motor???
>Some of the features,a 2khv zilla,a 13 inch ge motor direct drive into a
9 inch ford rear with air lockup and 40 spline axel..
Also, are you considering the negative consequences
of having the extra weight onboard when you are using
this truck for racing??? See Below:
The truck will also carry the pfc20 charger,a dc to dc step
up to 13.8 volt sli.,and 2 12volt chargers 1 for the reverse and 1 for the
sli.These are also multi input chargers.There is a honda 2000 watt emergency
genset mounted in the underhood compartment.
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