EV Digest 6291
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Chevy VOLT - detailed battery specs
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Display Day Electric Vehicles Melbourne Australia
by "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) One more reason to own an EV.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re:BBB event
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Chevy VOLT - NOT!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: One more reason to own an EV.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Electric Trolleys, was Chevy VOLT - NOT!,
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: ProEV news
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: A better aero way, Re: a way to lower aerodynamic drag
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Chevy VOLT - detailed battery specs
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV, Atom? on PBS Science Investigator stonight 8pm est
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) eBay curtis controllers
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: PWM Module for fan
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: eBay curtis controllers
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: One more reason to own an EV.
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: One more reason to own an EV.
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: A better aero way, Re: a way to lower aerodynamic drag
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Chevy VOLT - NOT!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: One more reason to own an EV.
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Fwd: FW: Not!! Re: Another reminder.....don't justify conversion based on
oil and gas prices to
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: eBay curtis controllers
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: [EV] Re: eBay curtis controllers
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: One more reason to own an EV.
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) [EV] Re: eBay curtis controllers
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Fwd: FW: Not!! Re: Another reminder.....don't justify conversion based
on oil
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Surplus Center Motor, 36 v, 2.7 hp
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Surplus Center Motor, 36 v, 2.7 hp, OOPS
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: eBay curtis controllers
by "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: [EV] Re: eBay curtis controllers
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Found this in TidalForce forums:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/jan07/4848
" Lithium Batteries for Hybrid Cars
By John Voelcker "
<snip>
Its 1.0-liter, 3-cylinder turbocharged engine runs an onboard
53-kilowatt generator that recharges a 16-kilowatthour lithium-ion
battery made of 80 four-volt cells. The battery pack's volume is 100
L, one-third as much as the lead-acid batteries in GM's 1990s-issue
electric car, the EV1. GM's targeted maximum weight for the pack is
180 kilograms (400 pounds). The company also wants the battery to last
at least 10 years, through 4,000 full-discharge cycles.
The battery pack would charge in less than 6.5 hours, power a 120-kW
electric motor delivering 320 newton-meters of peak torque, and go 64
km (40 miles) in all-electric mode on battery charge alone. The
12-gallon gasoline tank would add an additional 965 km (600 miles) to
that range.
"We don't have a battery pack yet," said Tony Posawatz, the vehicle
line director. He confirmed that the vehicle shown in Detroit doesn't
yet run.
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The AEVA will be presenting the above this Sunday Kirkham Rd West,
Keysborough near Cheltenham Rd from 10AM on. David Sharpe. Ring 0414886322
for details.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Security video in gas station where static electricity ignites gas,
brave lady.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4r5-8doAYw
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve
are you bringing anything to the BBB-- are you coming
there?
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > And only $10 million starting bid, what a deal!
> >
> > Tilley of the Tilley Electric Vehicle scam
> (recharges itself as you
> > drive through unspecified means, allowing infinite
> range) may have been
> > a slimeball- but at least he put a lot of work
> into his scam.
> >
> If you weren't on the list when Mr Littlefield came
> on with the Tilley news you missed some great
> entertanment ,,, I'm laughing now just thinking
> about some of the post ,, It was the perfect scam ,,
> so simple nobody on the list guessed it ,, and we
> tried, had a top 10 list ,,, and as the big event
> got closer things sure warmed up ... Are there no
> "Gen on a wheel left" have we hunted the dear
> lovable creathers down to nothing . I some how
> though they would run forever.... Another thing I
> miss is the drag racing news ,,, Back in the old
> days when "gen on the wheels " rommed free and EV
> dragracing only happened onece a year , we'd all sit
> buy our raidos ,,, I mean computers waiting of the
> new ,, Battery Beach Brunout is comming up ,,, gess
> I better go work on my car,,,, got the S/P hooked up
> last night ,,, Up till 3am but couldn't stop till I
> saw those motors switching s/p ran it on a 12v
> battery to see it work and saw somthing I didn't
> expect ,,, when only one of the !
> relays is switched this set up only powers one
> motor ,,, so with just one set of the reversing
> contactors set up you could have 3 speeds ,, 2
> motors series, 1 motor and 2 motors parellel ...
> ... ,,
> How about for the old days we hear a little about
> the cars that are going to BBB and what they're
> bringing.
>
> steve Clunn
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: Chevy VOLT - NOT!
> I was researching the history of GM buying up cities' electric rail
> systems, and happened on a post on the C-Car yahoo group from our old
> pal Neon John stating that this was politics (maybe so) and smacked of
> *conspiracy theory* (!), and that he could refute the argument with
> facts. All I could think of when I read this was those who state they
> can prove the Holocaust didn't happen... Sorry if that sounds
> political, but it's public record that the judge gave them a slap on
> the wrist, so a past history like this make me doubt anything said by
> GM (or most any other car company) until it can be seen, touched,
> driven, AND purchased!
> Hi EVerybody;
Have ya scene the vid" Taken for a Ride" yet? It is a New Day Films vid
of 1996 I think, about just that. General Murders under the stage name
"National Cities Transit" Buying up Electric Railways, like Pacific Electric
home of the famous Red Cars, of 50 years ago.Chicago, Philly, the list will
make you puke!
This flick never made it big time like WKtEC. I found it on E bay, have
shown it at our EAA meetings. The burning piles of murdered trolleys brings
tears to a trolley fan' eyes!As bad as the crushed EV-1's!Another one out
there is Trolley, the Car that built our Cities" I run them back to back!If
ya came to my place I could keep ya going on RR stuff, both bought and
filmed myself for daze!
My two transfers worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: One more reason to own an EV.
> Security video in gas station where static electricity ignites gas,
> brave lady.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4r5-8doAYw
>
> Wow! Scary! It didn't show her car burning up? I guess the fire went
out?IF she had clapped the filler cap back on the car? Or better yet had an
EV and not have had to go to those dangerous gas stations?
Seeya
Bob
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info on "Taken for a Ride" Bob. It is not available from
Amazon. You have to go to the source. Here is their page:
http://www.newday.com/films/Taken_for_a_Ride.html I will get one for our
local library and I hope others who give a damn will as well. Every little
bit of education helps.
Roderick Wilde
"Education is the most subversive thing you can do to the human mind and
information is the ultimate weapon"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: Chevy VOLT - NOT!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: Chevy VOLT - NOT!
I was researching the history of GM buying up cities' electric rail
systems, and happened on a post on the C-Car yahoo group from our old
pal Neon John stating that this was politics (maybe so) and smacked of
*conspiracy theory* (!), and that he could refute the argument with
facts. All I could think of when I read this was those who state they
can prove the Holocaust didn't happen... Sorry if that sounds
political, but it's public record that the judge gave them a slap on
the wrist, so a past history like this make me doubt anything said by
GM (or most any other car company) until it can be seen, touched,
driven, AND purchased!
Hi EVerybody;
Have ya scene the vid" Taken for a Ride" yet? It is a New Day Films
vid
of 1996 I think, about just that. General Murders under the stage name
"National Cities Transit" Buying up Electric Railways, like Pacific
Electric
home of the famous Red Cars, of 50 years ago.Chicago, Philly, the list
will
make you puke!
This flick never made it big time like WKtEC. I found it on E bay, have
shown it at our EAA meetings. The burning piles of murdered trolleys
brings
tears to a trolley fan' eyes!As bad as the crushed EV-1's!Another one out
there is Trolley, the Car that built our Cities" I run them back to
back!If
ya came to my place I could keep ya going on RR stuff, both bought and
filmed myself for daze!
My two transfers worth
Bob
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I compared ProEV's performance to that of my gas car, I was very impressed!
I have had my gas car on a real race track once for a day. My 300 hp gas car
got about 6 or 7 mpg (21 mpg on the street), so it would have used 5 gallons in
a 30 mile race. The best speed I hit was about 128 mph after a really long
straight (about 3600 feet long). I'd estimate my average speed was around 70
mph.
The Electric Imp was racing fast, did about 5 gallons gas worth of energy, and
had the current turned down to a measly 300 Amps! I think the combined
inverters limit is 560 Amps for them.
So kudos to the ProEV folks, most impressive!
----- Original Message ----
From: ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 7:47:55 AM
Subject: ProEV news
...We competed with the new pack last weekend at the SCCA South Atlantic Road
Racing Championship (SARRC) race at Moroso Motorsports Park. We ran a 30+
mile race and finished in 2nd place! It was a great weekend.
We were very conservative for the pack's first outing as we were testing a
number of new systems. We limited amps to 400 in qualifying and 300 in the
race and used only 28 kWhrs from the 35 kWhr pack. We averaged 72 mph around
the track, reaching 111 mph on the straight-aways.
...
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of golf balls and better aero, Myers motors [www.myersmotors.com]
has been adding large 'golf ball bumps' to the rear of their cars. They said
it helped with stability, but did not say anything about improved range. Its
a fun little car to drive
jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Matt and All,
Riblets designed from shark skin do work in water
and aircraft at high mach numbers but not for cars at car
speeds.
It dies it by as said before, making a layer of
slow air next to the skin to lubicate the air above it to
keep it attached.
A golf ball does another trick which is the bumps
are meant to seperate the air from the rear of the ball as
it flys before they turn into diverging vortex's by allowing
the air to seperate just after the widest point.
Air drag is how much air an object drags,
accelerates with it as it moves. If the object parts the air
and lets it come back together close behind it, has the
lowest drag. objects that trun the air behind them quickly,
turn the air into diverging vortex's which spread out,
dragging, accelerating a lot of air behind it and that takes
energy, a lot of it!!
The best place from vortex generators is where the
rear of the EV as starts to turn sharply inward of more the
17deg, I like 13deg because reality, put the generators just
before this angle so the air can seperate cleanly before the
diverging vortexes are created. The air will then converge
somewhere behind it in an aerodynamic cone, greatly lowering
drag.
You could put yarn taped to just before the rear
and drive, will tell you just where the air turns to
diverging vortex's.
If the Scion is the boxy one, the rear isn't your
aero problem, the upright windshield is. You can help this
by using a airfoil over it that turns the air from going up
to going aft like what some trucks use, though need a good
gap, 4-6 above the roof, curving down forward shape. When
you do this the air will form a bubble in front of it to
fair the front would help the most. But not a good higher
speed EV starting point. The Sedan version looks good
though.
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Matthew Milliron
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: a way to lower aerodynamic drag
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:17:53 -0600
>On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 04:23:20 -0700, you wrote:
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: a way to lower aerodynamic drag
>From: Geopilot
>http://www.fraunhofer.de/fhg/EN/press/pi/2006/12/ResearchNews12-2006-Topic4.jsp
>
>> As fast as a shark in water
>>
>> With the help of tiny ridge-like structures in their
>> scales, sharks are able to minimize drag when swimming. A
>> new coating system takes advantage of this riblet
>> effect to improve the aerodynamics of vehicles and
>>aircraft.
>> Scales have a beneficial effect on the speed at which
>> fish swim: tiny ridges arranged parallel to the swimming
>> direction, known as riblets, reduce drag in water.
This
>> riblet effect, which has been known to scientists and
>> engineers for more than 50 years, can also be utilized by
>> ships and other means of transport: Films with a suitable
>structure can be applied to their outer surfaces to reduce
>> frictional resistance and thus bring down fuel
>>consumption.
>> The problem is that these films can only be applied to
>> flat or convex surfaces, but bodies whose aerodynamic or
>> hydrodynamic properties have been optimized tend to have
>> a more complex shape. The alternative to coating with a
>> film is to texture the surface itself with riblets.
>> However, none of the laser or milling techniques which
>have been employed so far are suitable for components that
>> have to be painted, as the paint would immediately flow
>> into the tiny grooves and fill them.
>>
>> Dr. Volkmar Stenzel of the Fraunhofer Institute for
>> Manufacturing Engineering and Applied Materials Research
>> IFAM thus came up with the idea of integrating the riblet
>> pattern into the lacquer itself. That meant we had to
>> look for a tool which didnt adhere to the lacquer, so
>that it could impress the required structure onto it,
>> explains Stenzel. A prototype has now been created,
>> combining a suitable lacquer and the technology for
>> applying it. The novelty is that an approximately 20 cm
>> wide transparent silicone film with a riblet pattern
>> serves as a stamp. This is capable of printing
patterns
>with a resolution of a few nanometers, similar to those
>> found in holograms, onto surfaces. The film runs over
>> three flexible rollers and can thus adapt its shape to
>> hug uneven surfaces. >From the front, a new type of resin
>> lacquer is continuously sprayed onto the film and
>transferred with the help of the rollers onto the surface
>> to be treated. A UV lamp then hardens the resin in a
>> fraction of a second. Because of the extremely fast
>> application and hardening process, the riblet structure
>>is retained.
>> Our trial lacquer is based on the chemistry used in
>> aviation paints. It is mechanically very durable and,
>> Stenzel hopes, should also be resistant to strong UV
>> radiation at high altitude. A field trial will soon
show
>> whether the lacquer fulfills its promise in practice.
>However, applications for the new coating system are not
>> restricted to the aviation industry, as Stenzel stresses:
>> With this technology we can apply any other micro and
>> nano structures to lacquered surfaces.
>
>These also sound like vortex generators.
>
>http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/corporate/about_us/technology/review/e/pdf/2004/16E_03.pdf
>
>They are also used to clean up airflow around the wings of
>small airplanes.
>
>http://www.microaero.com/
>
>
>R. Matt Milliron
>1981 Jet Electrica
>http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
>My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
>electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
>
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
---------------------------------
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One more important article, the bit of truth about batteries that
didnt get into mass media at the announcement and is now spun by many
articles as "GM says that the battery technology could be years away"
http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/18054/
Indeed, GM's vehicle chief engineer, Nick Zelenski, says that
individual batteries are already good enough. "We've got enough data
at the cell level to feel that the technology is there," he says. What
remains to be done is packaging the cells into large battery packs and
testing them in actual vehicles. This will be a challenge, Zelenski
says, since there is a big difference between using "a single cell and
multiplying them all together to get the energy levels that we need
for this type of vehicle." But according to development contracts GM
recently signed with two groups of companies, such battery packs will
be ready for testing in vehicles by the end of this year.
-kert
On 1/11/07, Kaido Kert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Found this in TidalForce forums:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/jan07/4848
" Lithium Batteries for Hybrid Cars
By John Voelcker "
<snip>
Its 1.0-liter, 3-cylinder turbocharged engine runs an onboard
53-kilowatt generator that recharges a 16-kilowatthour lithium-ion
battery made of 80 four-volt cells. The battery pack's volume is 100
L, one-third as much as the lead-acid batteries in GM's 1990s-issue
electric car, the EV1. GM's targeted maximum weight for the pack is
180 kilograms (400 pounds). The company also wants the battery to last
at least 10 years, through 4,000 full-discharge cycles.
The battery pack would charge in less than 6.5 hours, power a 120-kW
electric motor delivering 320 newton-meters of peak torque, and go 64
km (40 miles) in all-electric mode on battery charge alone. The
12-gallon gasoline tank would add an additional 965 km (600 miles) to
that range.
"We don't have a battery pack yet," said Tony Posawatz, the vehicle
line director. He confirmed that the vehicle shown in Detroit doesn't
yet run.
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Really great clip. They say you can see it on line. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Cc: "SFEVA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: EV, Atom? on PBS Science Investigator stonight 8pm est
> KCET & KQED carry it at 8 pm Pacific time. Lawrence Rhodes...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:11 PM
> Subject: EV, Atom? on PBS Science Investigator stonight 8pm est
>
>
> >
> > Hi All,
> > I'm watching the new PBS show Science
> > Investigators and they I think said they were driving an
> > electric car that looks like a skeleton style sportscar.
> > More later after it's on probably 1/2 thru the
> > show.
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hate eBay. I've tried for a month to get a small (36/48v) curtis
for a test setup and always end up only makit it more expensive for
the winner. Always second place, sometimes snipped in the last seconds.
Anyway, I am now looking at item number 320069067578 and it according to
the data sheet is for 'permanent magnet, no A2 busbar'.
What does that mean? No freewhell diode?
Thanks.
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
http://ev.nn.cl | Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Who sells these Curtis 1400E units? or do you have to go to
> Curtis directly? anyone what a price for a new 1400E model set for
> 14.0 volts?
Canadian Electric Vehicles (<http://www.canev.com>) used to, and may
still.
Their DC/DC webpage
(<http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/Converter.html>) presently
lists a Surepower 72/96V 30A unit, but typically they carry and/or can
source much more than they bother listing online.
I don't think you can get one set for 14.0V unless you open it up and
tweak the appropriate trimpot yourself (voiding the warranty, I expect).
I think Curtis sells them set for 13.5V.
Drop Randy <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> an email and ask ;^)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use an auction sniper tool- may help you.
On Jan 11, 2007, at 10:37 AM, Eduardo Kaftanski wrote:
I hate eBay. I've tried for a month to get a small (36/48v) curtis
for a test setup and always end up only makit it more expensive for
the winner. Always second place, sometimes snipped in the last
seconds.
Anyway, I am now looking at item number 320069067578 and it
according to
the data sheet is for 'permanent magnet, no A2 busbar'.
What does that mean? No freewhell diode?
Thanks.
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
http://ev.nn.cl | Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
She didn't seem to freak out at all! Someday we'll end up using ground
straps like aircraft do for refueling.
Mike
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Security video in gas station where static electricity ignites gas,
> brave lady.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4r5-8doAYw
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Getting in and out of the car while refueling is the quickest way to
generate static electricity, and statistically women are more like to
do this than men, but I'd say that lady had some [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> She didn't seem to freak out at all! Someday we'll end up using ground
> straps like aircraft do for refueling.
>
> Mike
>
>
> --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Security video in gas station where static electricity ignites gas,
> > brave lady.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4r5-8doAYw
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You just keep making me think of Homer Simpson punching "speed holes" in
his car with a pickaxe.
Danny
dale henderson wrote:
Speaking of golf balls and better aero, Myers motors [www.myersmotors.com] has
been adding large 'golf ball bumps' to the rear of their cars. They said it
helped with stability, but did not say anything about improved range. It’s a
fun little car to drive
jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Matt and All,
Riblets designed from shark skin do work in water
and aircraft at high mach numbers but not for cars at car
speeds.
It dies it by as said before, making a layer of
slow air next to the skin to lubicate the air above it to
keep it attached.
A golf ball does another trick which is the bumps
are meant to seperate the air from the rear of the ball as
it flys before they turn into diverging vortex's by allowing
the air to seperate just after the widest point.
Air drag is how much air an object drags,
accelerates with it as it moves. If the object parts the air
and lets it come back together close behind it, has the
lowest drag. objects that trun the air behind them quickly,
turn the air into diverging vortex's which spread out,
dragging, accelerating a lot of air behind it and that takes
energy, a lot of it!!
The best place from vortex generators is where the
rear of the EV as starts to turn sharply inward of more the
17deg, I like 13deg because reality, put the generators just
before this angle so the air can seperate cleanly before the
diverging vortexes are created. The air will then converge
somewhere behind it in an aerodynamic cone, greatly lowering
drag.
You could put yarn taped to just before the rear
and drive, will tell you just where the air turns to
diverging vortex's.
If the Scion is the boxy one, the rear isn't your
aero problem, the upright windshield is. You can help this
by using a airfoil over it that turns the air from going up
to going aft like what some trucks use, though need a good
gap, 4-6 above the roof, curving down forward shape. When
you do this the air will form a bubble in front of it to
fair the front would help the most. But not a good higher
speed EV starting point. The Sedan version looks good
though.
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Matthew Milliron
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: a way to lower aerodynamic drag
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:17:53 -0600
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 04:23:20 -0700, you wrote:
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Subject: a way to lower aerodynamic drag
From: Geopilot
http://www.fraunhofer.de/fhg/EN/press/pi/2006/12/ResearchNews12-2006-Topic4.jsp
As fast as a shark in water
With the help of tiny ridge-like structures in their
scales, sharks are able to minimize drag when swimming. A
new coating system takes advantage of this “riblet
effect” to improve the aerodynamics of vehicles and
aircraft.
Scales have a beneficial effect on the speed at which
fish swim: tiny ridges arranged parallel to the swimming
direction, known as “riblets”, reduce drag in water.
This
riblet effect, which has been known to scientists and
engineers for more than 50 years, can also be utilized by
ships and other means of transport: Films with a suitable
structure can be applied to their outer surfaces to reduce
frictional resistance and thus bring down fuel
consumption.
The problem is that these films can only be applied to
flat or convex surfaces, but bodies whose aerodynamic or
hydrodynamic properties have been optimized tend to have
a more complex shape. The alternative to coating with a
film is to texture the surface itself with riblets.
However, none of the laser or milling techniques which
have been employed so far are suitable for components that
have to be painted, as the paint would immediately flow
into the tiny grooves and fill them.
Dr. Volkmar Stenzel of the Fraunhofer Institute for
Manufacturing Engineering and Applied Materials Research
IFAM thus came up with the idea of integrating the riblet
pattern into the lacquer itself. “That meant we had to
look for a tool which didn’t adhere to the lacquer, so
that it could impress the required structure onto it,”
explains Stenzel. A prototype has now been created,
combining a suitable lacquer and the technology for
applying it. The novelty is that an approximately 20 cm
wide transparent silicone film with a riblet pattern
serves as a “stamp”. This is capable of printing
patterns
with a resolution of a few nanometers, similar to those
found in holograms, onto surfaces. The film runs over
three flexible rollers and can thus adapt its shape to
hug uneven surfaces. >From the front, a new type of resin
lacquer is continuously sprayed onto the film and
transferred with the help of the rollers onto the surface
to be treated. A UV lamp then hardens the resin in a
fraction of a second. Because of the extremely fast
application and hardening process, the riblet structure
is retained.
“Our trial lacquer is based on the chemistry used in
aviation paints. It is mechanically very durable and,”
Stenzel hopes, “should also be resistant to strong UV
radiation at high altitude.” A field trial will soon
show
whether the lacquer fulfills its promise in practice.
However, applications for the new coating system are not
restricted to the aviation industry, as Stenzel stresses:
“With this technology we can apply any other micro and
nano structures to lacquered surfaces.”
These also sound like vortex generators.
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/corporate/about_us/technology/review/e/pdf/2004/16E_03.pdf
They are also used to clean up airflow around the wings of
small airplanes.
http://www.microaero.com/
R. Matt Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
---------------------------------
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
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On 11 Jan 2007 at 11:20, Bob Rice wrote:
> Have ya scene the vid" Taken for a Ride" yet?
I thought that title looked familiar ...
http://powells.com/biblio/62-1568581475-0
or from another vendor (more detailed description, but not offered for sale)
:
http://tinyurl.com/vpov5
I don't think the film is based on the book, but the book is fairly
interesting reading for anyone who's followed Detroit's dealings with EVs.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Yep... that's usually what happens when gas ignites. (She got back into
her car.) It's one reason to not have self-service fuel.
> Security video in gas station where static electricity ignites gas,
> brave lady.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4r5-8doAYw
>
>
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What kind of batteries are you using that will let you go 100 miles at
80mph?
I'd also recommend putting the amortized cost of the batteries into your fuel
cost figure.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jerryd
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Not!! Re: Another reminder.....don't justify conversion based on
oil and gas prices to
Hi Death and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Another reminder.....don't justify conversion based on oil and
gas prices to
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:22:30 -0000
>Don't use money as a reason for EVs - stick to the fact they will
>*always* create less pollution and CO2 than an ICE car (even if the
>power plant is coal-fired).
>
>>
>> Another reminder.....don't justify conversion based on oil and gas
>> prices today- justify it on the likely large rise that will take
>> place or could take place in the future.
>
This is why EV's are not available. We need EV's that not only match
ICE's, but beat them handily like the Tesla does in the high $ range
market!!!
And there is no reason why EV's can't if designed, built right as
EV's.
When I talk about mine, I always include my fuel costs of $.01/mile
and the cost equivilent of 240mpg!! That really gets their attention, then
they find out it will do 80 mph and over 100 mile range too, they get really
interested.
When they find it costs just $13k, they start asking when can they
buy one!!
What we need are great EV's we can brag about that are cost
effective, have good performance. EV's can easily be competitive with ICE's
when all costs, either money, enviroment, national ecomomy, security reasons
are considered.
Regretfuly conversions are never going to do this in most peoples
eyes as they don't consider the last points, it has to be EV's built from
scratch to get the performance needed to compete directly.
BTW I rented my new factory yesterday, move in after the BBB,
Jerry Dycus
>
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
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G'day Eduardo, and All
At 03:37 PM 11/01/07 -0300, Eduardo K wrote:
I hate eBay. I've tried for a month to get a small (36/48v) curtis
for a test setup and always end up only makit it more expensive for
the winner. Always second place, sometimes snipped in the last seconds.
Me too - despite running a sniping program. Problem is, they just don't go
cheap - the price usually triples in the last few seconds, to more than
half the price of a new one, sometimes 3/4 the price of a new one. If you
need that model the prices are a good deal, but for the rest of us its'
just annoying.
Anyway, I am now looking at item number 320069067578 and it according to
the data sheet is for 'permanent magnet, no A2 busbar'.
What does that mean? No freewhell diode?
Permag still needs the freewheel diode, but it doesn't have the plugging
diode - the extra freewheel diode that only is used when reversing
contactors are used (when the contactors open, the plugging diode conducts).
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
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>
> >Anyway, I am now looking at item number 320069067578 and it according to
> >the data sheet is for 'permanent magnet, no A2 busbar'.
> >
> >What does that mean? No freewhell diode?
>
> Permag still needs the freewheel diode, but it doesn't have the plugging
> diode - the extra freewheel diode that only is used when reversing
> contactors are used (when the contactors open, the plugging diode conducts).
>
So if I am not using reversin contactors (I wont) I can buy it and use
it with a normal series motor?
> Hope this helps
>
yes. thanks.
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
http://ev.nn.cl | Yo.
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Next time someone says ev batteries are unsafe or something - show them
that video.
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:14 pm, Death to All Spammers wrote:
Getting in and out of the car while refueling is the quickest way to
generate static electricity, and statistically women are more like to
do this than men, but I'd say that lady had some [EMAIL PROTECTED]
She didn't seem to freak out at all! Someday we'll end up using ground
straps like aircraft do for refueling.
Mike
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Security video in gas station where static electricity ignites gas,
> brave lady.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4r5-8doAYw
>
>
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
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> > Permag still needs the freewheel diode, but it doesn't have the
plugging
> > diode - the extra freewheel diode that only is used when reversing
> > contactors are used (when the contactors open, the plugging diode
conducts).
> >
>
> So if I am not using reversin contactors (I wont) I can buy it and use
> it with a normal series motor?
>
>
Why couldn't you use this controller with reversing contactors? The A2
(plug braking) lug doesn't get used by street vehicles anyway -
anything faster than a jog and you've got too much energy to safely
burn off (yes, "burn off", not regenerate).
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> What kind of batteries are you using that will let you go 100 miles at
> 80mph?
>
> I'd also recommend putting the amortized cost of the batteries into
your fuel cost figure.
>
It's not the kind of batteries, it's the energy needed to keep the
vehicle moving, and in Jarry's case, it's a 2-seat 3-wheeler.
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Here is a great deal on a Prestolite motor for projects like electric boats
and riding lawn mowers.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007011116172731&item=10-1899-A&catname=
Yeh, I guess I am only cutting my own throat here a bit as I am in the
business of selling motors, but heh, a good deal is a good deal and I
couldn't help but to share it.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
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I just went back and read all the specs. I saw the picture with the output
shaft and didn't realize this did not have a support bearing on the other
end. My apologies, this is not a suitable motor for the projects I
mentioned. I just got a little excited and jumped the gun. Sorry to get your
hopes up.
Roderick
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007
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Hi Eduardo -
I had the same question (about A2) when I was searching eBay for a small
used Curtis to play with.
FYI, the one I got (1204-410, 36/48V, from a golf cart) came without the
A2 connection, and it works fine for testing my series motor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ins29dqbac
Good luck -
Darin
---
Eduardo Kaftanski wrote:
Anyway, I am now looking at item number 320069067578 and it according to
the data sheet is for 'permanent magnet, no A2 busbar'.
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On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 04:43:48PM -0500, Darin - MetroMPG.com wrote:
> Hi Eduardo -
>
> I had the same question (about A2) when I was searching eBay for a small
> used Curtis to play with.
>
> FYI, the one I got (1204-410, 36/48V, from a golf cart) came without the
> A2 connection, and it works fine for testing my series motor:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ins29dqbac
>
perfect. just what I wanted to see :)
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
http://ev.nn.cl | Yo.
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