EV Digest 6299
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVDL Archives searching [JGS-EV]
by Jurgen Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) broken battery post
by "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) High End DC Controllers [JGS-EV]
by Jurgen Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Aluminum battery chemistry
by Kevin Lura <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What to do now ...
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Battery Calculations [JGS-EV]
by Jurgen Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EVDL Archives searching [JGS-EV]
by "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 10,000 views of KillaCycle on YouTube!
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) ADC vs NetGain Motors [JGS-EV]
by Jurgen Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Charging EVs from renewables at home (was RE: Electric Rate Increase
Effective January 1
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: How much does it cost to take-off?
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: broken battery post
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery Calculations [JGS-EV]
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Higher Power Controllers (Was: Re: How to test a motor?)
[JGS-EV]
by Aaron Quinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 10,000 views of KillaCycle on YouTube!
by "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Lisbon Electric Trolley Pictures
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: draft
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Way, Way, WAY OT: Y'r gonna do WHAT to America?
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Conversion costs never change?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Jobs at Altairnano
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: broken battery post
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: PTC Heater fuse
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Selecting a DC/DC to Support and E-Meter/Link 10
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Charging EVs from renewables at home (was RE: Electric Rate
Increase Effective January 1
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Nanopollution
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Battery Calculations [JGS-EV]
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: How much does it cost to take-off?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I am trying to find a list archive that will allow me to search for a
subject such as "Optima Batteries" and will provide the complete thread.
Does such a thing exist? I have only found repositories of the digests
which are arranged chronologically and not by thread so if a subject was
mentioned over time I get a list of digests I need to do a text search on.
Thanks,
Jurgen Schmidt
San Antonio, TX
PS: Please keep the [JGS-EV] in the header of your reply so I can search
for my messages and their replies.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using Interstate U2200 6 volt batteries in my EV. I noticed that one
of the posts seemed loose today when I inspected the batteries for water.
When I test the connection I found that part of the battery post was broken.
Is there any way to fix this without replacing the battery? These batteries
are less than one year old. I was using the stud part of the post to
connect the cable to. The only thing left now is a flat portion of the post
that goes down into the batteries. Any advice or suggestion would be
appreciated.
Thanks, Fred
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From what I have read so far, Curtis and Zilla are the primary
controllers used for large EVs such as S-10 conversions, etc.
And Curtis tops out at 500A / 144V. Are there other controllers that
will handle more than 500A and at least 200VDC?
Thanks,
Jurgen Schmidt
San Antonio, TX
PS: Please keep the [JGS-EV] in the header of your reply so I can search
for my messages and their replies.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
you guys are thinking way to much into this.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/electpot.html#c1
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 08:32 AM 1/14/2007, Sam Thurber wrote:
> >Not to nit-pick but Lithium (after elemental hydrogen) is actually
> >the weakest reducing agent, Francium is the strongest. The larger
> >the molecule, the easier it is to lose it's lone electron in the
> >outer shell, therfore reducing agent's strength go from hydrogen to
> >Francium. Oxidzer's on the other hand want that last electron to
> >complete their outer shell and their reletave strength goes in the
> >opposite direction with Astatine being the weekest and Fluorine
> >being the strongest.
>
> Hmm, sounds like a Fluorine/Francium battery could be, umm, exciting...
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check to be sure that the pre-charge and contactor are working. That
is, check to see that pack voltage actually exists at the controller
input terminals.
Is the controller enable wire hot?
Next, turn off all power, pull off the pot box connection, and check
to see that the pot box input at the controller is actually reading
zero ohms (or just an ohm or two.) The controller won't start with a
pot box signal above zero. Next, operate the throttle and see that
the resistance goes to 5000 ohms.
Reconnect everything.
Put a light bulb on the motor terminals and see if there is voltage
when you operate the throttle (neutral gear or jack stands, please.)
Bill D.
At 07:10 AM 1/14/2007, you wrote:
Well, It's been a month of hard work trying to get the Festiva
running. I finally got the new set of batts in and the charger
working. But, when I went to fire it up this morning after 5 - 6
years of sitting (new batts in and all wires cleaned up) ... nothing ...
The main contactor pulls in and the vac pump starts, but that is it.
Nothing out of the old Curtis 1221B ... Nothing at all.
I checked the pot box. It has a switch and 5k pot. The switch
is off normally, like it should be. So, it isn't locking out or
anything. Or, is it ??? Why knows after 5+ years of sitting ...
What now?
Where should I send that thing for test and repair? Is it even
worth it? I had wanted to upgrade anyway ...
What tests should I run to even try to figure this out?
The problem is that the controller is pretty well burried under a
lot of stuff and the wires are short. It is going to be very hard
to get that thing out of there or even access it to check it out.
I'm open to suggestions ...
Steve
---------------------------------
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are there any experience-based spreadsheets for calculating battery
capacity requirements for a certain target vehicle?
For example, assume a 2500 lb light truck (before batteries), the
probably typical ADC FB1-4001 motor with performance target max 70mph,
50 mile range, sealed lead batteries. Also, when I pull onto the
highway, I want to impress those behind me with the performance of my
clearly labeled electric truck. (I want to give electric the most
positive image possible.)
I would like to plug in different battery configurations and controller
efficiencies to determine the ideal battery weight , voltage, and capacity.
I assume the best case would be too expensive so I would then plug in
prices and "fiddle" with the numbers to achieve a compromise.
I have the books with the ideal and perfect system calculations. I don't
know how to get to some real world formulas that take real world battery
specs and motor specs.
Questions I would like to answer are: How far can I expect to get on 12
D31 Optima Yellowtops with the vehicle outlined above? What happens when
I go to 14 batteries? How about 24 Trojan 6V-AGM? (with more than twice
the battery weight)
Thanks,
Jurgen Schmidt
San Antonio, TX
PS: Please keep the [JGS-EV] in the header of your reply so I can search
for my messages and their replies.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jurgen -
Have you tried the Yahoo Group archive of the list?
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/
(NOTE: use the search box by "Most Recent Messages", about halfway down
the page, not the box at the very top.)
Yahoo has improved their Groups search functionality in the last year
(since I first started prospecting in the archive for information).
It's still not as good as Google type search (no boolean), but you can
at least use quotes to search for multiple word "phrases". And it no
longer searches just a portion of the archive at a time, like it used to.
The archive appears to be getting busier, too. Recently, I've seen more
messages to the effect of "this group has exceeded its maximum allowable
activity - try back later" when performing searches.
Darin
--=--=--
Jurgen Schmidt wrote:
I am trying to find a list archive that will allow me to search for a
subject such as "Optima Batteries" and will provide the complete thread.
Does such a thing exist? I have only found repositories of the digests
which are arranged chronologically and not by thread so if a subject was
mentioned over time I get a list of digests I need to do a text search on.
Thanks,
Jurgen Schmidt
San Antonio, TX
PS: Please keep the [JGS-EV] in the header of your reply so I can search
for my messages and their replies.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess it is a popular video. The counter shows over 10,000 views on
the KillaCycle video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dRpAZci9m0
I knew it was exciting for me to watch. I'm pleasantly surprised that
so many other folks are watching it too.
Bill Dube'
Check out my pictures of the Lisbon electric trolley system if you
haven't already:
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/page/2/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have any experience with the NetGain Warp9 motor? (
www.go-ev.com/motors.html )
How about in comparison to the ADC FB1-4001s?
Thanks,
Jurgen Schmidt
San Antonio, TX
PS: Please keep the [JGS-EV] in the header of your reply so I can search
for my messages and their replies.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Solar cells typically take close to 10 yrs to make enough electricity to
pay for themselves at the going rate. Actually that might be with a
govt subsidy too, I'm not sure. It varies a lot by geographic area,
lower latitudes get significantly more sun and of course some areas have
more clouds than others.
Solar cells don't typically use "seconds" silicon that I know of. They
use silicon made specially for them. The degree of purity required
varies with the solar cell technology and there are quite a few types
out there. Unfortunately, it is not only expensive to mfg the cells
themselves but a durable, waterproof housing and mounting system end up
being quite expensive as well.
I would not hesitate to encourage someone to install a solar system to
charge an EV. Then you can truly claim a solar-powered car. However,
one should fully understand its limited capabilities, the costs
involved, and that it generally will be more expensive than grid power-
probably much more expensive.
Danny
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
what about using a wind turbine or solar panels to charge your car if alot
of people had those they would get cheaper and become standard ways to
charge your car.
Increased demand for Solar panels would probably make them MORE expensive.
As I understand it, currently most of the monocrystal solar cells are
made from silicon wafer "seconds" that don't pass muster for other
semiconductors. If demand increased enough, then they would have to start
using the more expensive first rate wafers.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would be careful on how you state your driving methods. Although it could be
argued that bending the traffic rules does allow the most efficient driving I
would not state them in a public forum. If there are some accidents involving
electric vehicles certain bad people [cough: big oil, GM], might use these
records as proof that EVs and conversions promote unsafe conditions and hence
need more regulations [aka ways of stopping them].
note: i did not say big oil and GM above, but my cough might have sounded
like them.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/13/2007 5:17:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
the second reason makes it a small miracle that
you can gain between 5 and 10% range with regen braking.
It all depends on your driving conditions. The above statement is true if
your on flat roads with few stops. If your in an area with many stop lights and
steep hills this number can change dramatically. A Solectria Force AC
system can recover up to 30 percent. Depending on the terrain and driving
conditions of an overall trip up to 10 to 15 percent recovered can be normal.
I prefer to adapt my driving style to minimize braking by
anticipating long in advance,
This is definitely the most efficient when there are no ICE drivers behind
you. I try to retain as much momentum adjusting the regen as needed to achieve
this. That way if the light changes you retain more energy than you would
with regeneration. This is best though if there is no ICE vehicles behind you.
I found that if you mark your vehicle as being ICE you have all kinds of
people trying to set themselves up to pass you. Say your waiting at a stop
light
I have had people get over to the slow lane when they figure out they are
behind an EV. Even getting behind a transit bus thinking it will out accelerate
an EV. Then when I take off with traffic they are frustrated they figured
wrong and get back to the fast lane.
It will be interesting when more vehicles are on the road with regeneration.
What will happen when more drivers are holding back rushing up to a stop
light?
Don
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
---------------------------------
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Fred,
The best way, is to remove the battery and take it to a battery shop, that
can mold on a new post. I did not have access to someone that did this, so
I bought my own post molds or you can have one made by a machine shop.
When doing any battery repair in this matter, DISCHARGE THE BATTERY TO ABOUT
60% AND LET IT SET ABOUT 2 DAYS WITH THE CAPS LOOSEN OR OFF to remove any
venting gas.
Use one of those mini-touches, that have a long thin flame tip using a very
hot gas. Pick up pure lead from a fishing gear store, that have it on
rolls.
I order my post molds, so while I was waiting, I tried something different.
I went to my local auto parts store, and pick up one of those lead post that
can screw on to side post batteries. Some of these have a hex bottom which
you can use a wrench on.
Drill down into the center of the post with a 1/4 inch bit with a spacer
place on the bit, so you do not go all the way threw. I found on my
batteries, I could go 3/4 inch deep. If you are on one of those offset
pads, then its about 1/2 inch deep.
Now tap this hold with a 5/16 NC thread taper set, starting out with a taper
and then finish with a bottom tap.
Clean the top of the battery post and the bottom and edge of the new post.
Screw this post on and tighten it.
Cover the top of the battery with layers of very wet paper towels letting
the post stick up. Pack the wet paper towels around the base of the post to
provide a heat sink.
If you have battery filler caps on this battery, then remove them, and
install wet roll up paper towels into the battery filler necks very tight.
Make sure they do not touch the electrolyte.
Using the pure lead and mini torch, you then apply a lead weld bead in the
gap between the battery post and post you are installing. You may have to
file a V or gap around the base of the post before installing it on the
battery.
To prevent from solder from rolling on to the battery top, this is what the
wet paper towels are use for. Keep wetting the towels as you work with
leading on a post.
You can add a barrier around the base of the post, by cutting a 1/4 section
out of a 3/4 inch pipe coupler, the one that is about 7/8 to 1 inch inside
diameter. Pre tin this copper ring and install it around the bottom of the
battery post. Put some down pressure on this ring with a metal weight, so
it will not float or move and make a good seal.
Adjust the mini-torch to a very long thin flame and start to melt the post
lead and at the same time the end of the lead stick. The molten lead will
then drip on to a molten lead of the post.
You travel in the direction of the frame point. This allows the flame to
melt new lead its it path. Do not melt the lead going backward or you will
applying too much heat on the new lead you are applying and it will pile it
up to high.
After making one pass, and the lead bead looks too rough, then just flame it
again without adding any lead this time. If there is a low spot, then you
can touch up the spot with lead at that time.
If you are using a stud connector and want to use one again, You can get a
lead repair post from a auto parts store, that does not have a stud in it,
so it can screw onto a side post battery. These can be use on stud type
battery that has not post.
In your case you do not have the stud now, so all you have to do is tap the
battery post as we did before, but with this post, you drill all the way
through the top of the post and install a long stainless steel threaded rod
that goes all the way through the post you are going to install and screw it
into the battery and weld it on.
I have one battery that I had install one of these post to on one of these
offset lead pads about 4 years ago and is still going. I only use a battery
clamp ring, and not the top stud. The top stop type of connection will work
loose, mushroom posts and sometimes twist off posts.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:20 AM
Subject: broken battery post
> I am using Interstate U2200 6 volt batteries in my EV. I noticed that one
> of the posts seemed loose today when I inspected the batteries for water.
> When I test the connection I found that part of the battery post was
> broken.
> Is there any way to fix this without replacing the battery? These
> batteries
> are less than one year old. I was using the stud part of the post to
> connect the cable to. The only thing left now is a flat portion of the
> post
> that goes down into the batteries. Any advice or suggestion would be
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks, Fred
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is very little difference in efficiency between controllers. The
big difference, especially for performance, is how many amps they can
handle.
If you want impressive performance, then you will have to go with a high
power controller (at least 1,000 amps, 2,000 would be better) and AGM
batteries.
Probably the best choices for high power AGMs is either Optima YTs or
Exide Orbitals.
> Are there any experience-based spreadsheets for calculating battery
> capacity requirements for a certain target vehicle?
>
> For example, assume a 2500 lb light truck (before batteries), the
> probably typical ADC FB1-4001 motor with performance target max 70mph,
> 50 mile range, sealed lead batteries. Also, when I pull onto the
> highway, I want to impress those behind me with the performance of my
> clearly labeled electric truck. (I want to give electric the most
> positive image possible.)
> I would like to plug in different battery configurations and controller
> efficiencies to determine the ideal battery weight , voltage, and
> capacity.
> I assume the best case would be too expensive so I would then plug in
> prices and "fiddle" with the numbers to achieve a compromise.
>
> I have the books with the ideal and perfect system calculations. I don't
> know how to get to some real world formulas that take real world battery
> specs and motor specs.
>
> Questions I would like to answer are: How far can I expect to get on 12
> D31 Optima Yellowtops with the vehicle outlined above? What happens when
> I go to 14 batteries? How about 24 Trojan 6V-AGM? (with more than twice
> the battery weight)
>
>
> Thanks,
> Jurgen Schmidt
> San Antonio, TX
>
> PS: Please keep the [JGS-EV] in the header of your reply so I can search
> for my messages and their replies.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have to send a BIG thank you to Jim for sending me the diagram
here. It worked perfectly. Turns out I do have series motor, which is
good. I made a short video if anyone wants to see it running, but I'm
sure it's nothing special.
http://www.quintonet.com/qev1/roadblocks/motor_running_first_time.avi.wmv
That means I don't have to look for a special sepex controller and I
can use a standard one easily enough. So I was looking for something
that can control voltages from 48 volts up to 96, but everything
seems to be "up to 72 volts" or "72 volts and higher." Is it possible
for a 72-120 controller to use a 48 volt input? I'm also looking for
something that can handle some huge amperage.
Jurgen Schmidt said he was looking for something along the same lines
but with higher voltages. So Jurgen, maybe you can contact
LogiSystems and see if they can help you. I was looking at their
modified Curtis that can operate from 48 to 72 volts and up to 700
amps. I won't be able to do 96 volts with it, but that's probably
acceptable since this is just my first try at an EV. I just don't
want to get something that's going to limit my EV's capabilities and
then I have to go out and buy something else. I'd like to get
something from the outset that can meet my needs instead of having to
upgrade a few times and spend extra money.
Aaron Quinto
aaron at quintonet.com
http://www.quintonet.com/qev1/
At 12:23 PM 01/08/2007, you wrote:
Hey Aaron
I haven't seen one of those old Yales in a long time
but it isnt a sep-ex motor but instead a series wound
motor from memory and pics. If you look at the field
windings they are big stout windings of a series wound
motor. From your blog I see that you now know that
this is an 8 terminaled motor. The two field coil
terminal pairs are jumped together on the outside of
the plate. To test try this
Batt- F1 / F2
/ / \
Batt+/--->A1 A2 \
\ A3 A4 /
\ /
F3--jump--F4
The terminal numbers are just to help plot the
connections. Battery- to F1. Batt+ to A1. Jump F3
to F4 and then A2 to F2. This ought to get that motor
turning and to see what direction it runs on this
connection. This is from memory, if it does not spin
up smooth contact me off list.
Hope this helps
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey congrats, Bill.
Yet more evidence there's a healthy appetite for EV info on YouTube:
- My two "test power-up" videos of the Joe Sixpack Geo motor have been
collectively viewed over 1,400 times. (I find this astonishing
considering they're hardly as compelling to watch as your video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NebLkPulpNg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ins29dqbac
- Nikki's engaging road test "review" of her Mini El EV has been viewed
over 3,000 times:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a399fIxp9-E
I think anyone with the capability of putting together something like
this would see similar results. In fact, if you have an EV Album entry,
a link to a YouTube video of the vehicle in action would make a logical
addition to its description & photos.
I'd like to see more people doing this with EVs of all kinds.
cheers-
Darin
---
Bill Dube wrote:
I guess it is a popular video. The counter shows over 10,000 views on
the KillaCycle video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dRpAZci9m0
I knew it was exciting for me to watch. I'm pleasantly surprised that so
many other folks are watching it too.
Bill Dube'
Check out my pictures of the Lisbon electric trolley system if you
haven't already:
http://www.killacycle.com/photos/page/2/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill wrote -
> Ten bonus points for anyone that can
> figure out the time and date we were on the trolley from looking at
> the pictures. :-)
>
>From "Trolley12.jpg", it looks like 2006-11-05 09:51, or as we say it May
>11th, 2006, at 9:51am. Couldn't make out the script under the time/date.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I didn't know about Uve's Calculator.
But I thought my calculator was pretty simple, and
it's based on Physics.
And I liked the results that it produced.
If you have the links to other calculators that would
be great!
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, why are you developing this
> calculator?
> Is it an intelectual exercise, or do you feel there
> is a need for another
> online EV calculator?
>
> If you didn't know, there are severl online
> calculators out there, the
> best of which is probably Uve's EV Calculator:
>
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/lab/8679/evcalc.html
>
> It has many more variables than yours. If you are
> looking to simplify his
> calculator, I believe he lists all of the formulas
> he uses. You could
> borrow them and modify them for your page.
>
> Or you could finish what he started. He never did
> finish the acceleration
> portion of the calculator.
>
> > I'm looking for input for this range calculator:
> >
> > If you a chance I made this calculator on this
> page:
> >
> > http://community.uaf.edu/~ffmig/power.php
> >
> > and I'm using this formula:
> >
> > http://community.uaf.edu/~ffmig/force.htm
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael Golub
> > Fairbanks, AK
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> > ________
> > Bored stiff? Loosen up...
> > Download and play hundreds of games for free on
> Yahoo! Games.
> > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4
> lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically
> authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you
> agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Completely inappropriate, off-topic, political in nature, and highly
non-PC, but I just couldn't help myself from posting this link
because it is just so darned funny (at least to my warped mind.)
Beware: Big bandwidth, Put on headphones, Turn the monitor away from
the door, Be ready to click it away if the boss walks by. You have
been warned so don't watch it if you are easily offended.
http://www.glumbert.com/media/roleplay
Lower bandwidth version (lo-res video) on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEbJcmGkWiM
Electric cars _are_ mentioned briefly, so it isn't _entirely_
off-topic. :-)
Bill D.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think looking for reduced cost in EV conversions is possible but
not in the DC EV conversions. Though once the economy way to convert, I
fear that it doesn't lend itself to that next step of mass production
for economies of scale.
Perhaps it will work this way...
<dreammode>
The price on lithium-ion or lithium polymer drops to the point where
8K gets you a 25KWh pack that weights 500lbs
New methods of construction in cars get you a 4 door glider that
weighs 1000lbs
Higher voltage and lower current motors and controllers means
lighter motors, lighter wires.
Standardization of interfaces allows many manufacturers to make
compatible components, makeing them a commodity.
Now 25Kwh may actually get you 150mile range.
</dreammode>
The first might happen on it's own, unless the current comodidyness of
batteries is destroyed by Automotive company proritization.
The second is not likely with the current US Auto Manufactures, Maybe Lotus?
New materials and processing techniques have made this plausible, They
are working now on a 60Ghz wireless home network for realtime
transmitting of Hi-def Video in uncompressed form, for the general consumer.
The last one is the clincher. WE need someone to step up to the plate
and start a modern Automotive industry modeled more like the computer
industry than the existing auto industry. Anyone how knows the internals
of the intel line of processors when compared to the Mac or even the
Sparc for that matter can attest to the open standards being adopted as
being a greater driving force that the attributes of the technology.
(Please, no PC vs Mac vs SUN or Windows vs Linux flame wars intended)
I Promise that if I win the lottery or can find the investors, I will do
that! I need less money than GM is asking for Battery resarch alone :-)
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--- Begin Message ---
...Battery Systems Electrical Engineer, Senior Applications Design
Engineer and others:
http://www.altairnano.com/corp_careers.html
Terveisin,
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's a couple of thigns you could do.
I had a similar situation with battery post terminals whcih couldn't
be removed but i needed to make a new connection aswell so couldn't
remove everything. My first thought was to drill down the inside of
the post and tap it. I decided not to because I only had fine
threaded bolts and I think they thread in the lead post would strip
too easily SO I drilled horizontally through the post and the
terminal and bolted lug terminals.
A friend at a bettery supplier reckons it's a ogod fix, and also that
the vertical drill and tap idea would work with a large fat wide
threaded bolt.
He also said that if it happens again I could get a new post cast on
top. They use an oxy-acet torch to heat the post with a ring of lead
around it and either feed in lead pellets or pour in liquid lead from
a crucible.
Chris
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> I am using Interstate U2200 6 volt batteries in my EV. I noticed
that one
> of the posts seemed loose today when I inspected the batteries for
water.
> When I test the connection I found that part of the battery post
was broken.
> Is there any way to fix this without replacing the battery? These
batteries
> are less than one year old. I was using the stud part of the post
to
> connect the cable to. The only thing left now is a flat portion of
the post
> that goes down into the batteries. Any advice or suggestion would
be
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks, Fred
>
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--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
If I understand the ceramic heater concept, they are related to
peltier devices (albeit distantly) which are able to operate
(poorly) as a thermoelectric generator.
No, the ceramic heaters don't work as thermoelectric generators. There
are some small thermoelectric effects, but only what you get when any
two dissimilar metals are in contact and there is a temperature
difference between them.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
I just received a MinMax MKW3027 from cdiweb.com. It's 20W, 9 to 18
VDC in, +/- 15VDC out, and costs $24.
It's a bit overkill for an e-meter, but they have lower power models.
Here's a 3W model for about $19: http://tinyurl.com/y3lxcf
Cosel model #ZUS31212: 9 to 18V in, 12V out, 250mA.
I have no idea if this is appropriate for use with an e-meter; caveat
emptor. However, this site has many low / medium power DC-DC that
aren't huge $$$.
Lee, if you have your ears on the Cosel model mentioned above has a
500VAC / 1 minute rating. Not sure about the I/O capacitance
Usually, the ones with a 500v rating have their transformer's primary
and secondary magnet wire wound directy on top of each other, with no
supplemental insulation at all. Magnet wire is only good for about 30vac
per layer continuous-duty; thus 60vac continuous input-output isolation.
Some use double- or even triple-coated magnet wire; but even with 3, you
only get 6 layers or 180vac continuous isolation.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
I doubt that increased demand would make these products significantly
cheaper.
Sure it would! There is very little that is all that special about wind
generators. Mass production could have a dramatic effect on their prices.
f supply and demand is allowed to work, and really large quantities of
a product get built, its price tends to fall to slightly over the cost
of its raw materials. Both windmills and PV panels tend to use
relatively small quantities of inexpensive materials; so I think there
is real hope.
PV panels are built with semicondutors, which are basically refined
dirt. The amorphous ones have a lot of room for cost reductions from
mass production (the 'holy grail' is to figure out how to make solar
shingles cheaply). The polycrystalline ones work better but cost more to
make. The monocrystalline ones are using recycled wafers from the
semiconductor industry, but that's an erratic source of supply.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems Altairnano is taking nanopollution problems seriously, at
least those concerning the production:
http://tinyurl.com/uvvss
I would like to get more info about possible risks of using/abusing/
crashing those batteries though.
Terveisin,
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My experience is that people won't notice you if you merge
skillfully or fast. They only notice when you make a
negative impression (merge too close to someone, with
too much speed difference, do not indicate, hesitate,
drive too slow, and so on.)
My truck is not very powerful, so I try to keep my speed up
and gain as much as possible as permitted by traffic and
layout of the on-ramp; I also try to judge where an
appropriate place is to merge and adapt my vehicle speed
to meet up with that opportunity.
I see and sometimes experience that some drivers entering
the freeway expect others to make place and cause others
to make emergency manoevres to avoid a collision. That
kind of behavior will be remembered. Avoid that, be
predictable through timely signaling and the people that
notice you will be the ones interested in EVs, so they
can be thrilled that there actually some out there, driving
around on the freeways.
I have rainbow-effect letter sticker on my tailgate: ELEC-TRUCK
Some people notice, most don't. Occasionally someone will
"miss" something when I drive away and realize that the
engine rumble associated with a GM vehicle is omitted.
My suggestion is that if you want a quick truck, you
should strive to get about 100kW of power.
My 5000 lbs truck (driver and batteries included) has
only 60 kW and is not fast. I can keep up with traffic
most of the time, but I will lose from everyone trying.
That does not bother me, I will stay in the truck lane
most of the time because if I try to keep up with
traffic between 65 and 70 then I use almost twice the
amount of power as when I lumber along at 55 to 60 mph.
If you want tire-scorching then you need a Zilla.
At 144 or 156V (12-13 yellow tops) gives you 100kW at
600 to 800A. Only thing to be aware of is if the controller
can deliver this continuously (or at least repetitively,
depending on your terrain: a long steep freeway climb
requires a long high current capability, where a flat
road only requires an occasional acceleration).
If your range is a hard 50 mile requirement, then you
need a decent battery pack, dependent on temp and
terrain.
I have 1800 lbs of lead (26x 12V 110Ah) for a range
of more than 60 miles. With your lighter truck, you may
get away with 2/3 of that weight, but any less and
you won't have a chance to make it to 50 miles.
Even though the controllers still get hot, EVs are
amazingly efficient if dimensioned right.
When bicycling to work on a hot day, I would love if every
traffic light that I need to stop for would have an EV stop
next to me, because I am disgusted about the heatwaves that
I am confronted with from the 100kW+ of heat dumped next
to me by every SUV or truck that stops next to me and sits
there, idling and running the airco to create more heat to
get rid of the heat inside the cabin.
The EV is so much more elegant. Don't create all that
waste heat, so you have no problem to get rid of.
Brilliant.
Interesting how on a bike you see things so much more
clearly. Even efficiency of vehicles becomes very apparent.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jurgen Schmidt
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:13 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Battery Calculations [JGS-EV]
Are there any experience-based spreadsheets for calculating battery
capacity requirements for a certain target vehicle?
For example, assume a 2500 lb light truck (before batteries), the
probably typical ADC FB1-4001 motor with performance target max 70mph,
50 mile range, sealed lead batteries. Also, when I pull onto the
highway, I want to impress those behind me with the performance of my
clearly labeled electric truck. (I want to give electric the most
positive image possible.)
I would like to plug in different battery configurations and controller
efficiencies to determine the ideal battery weight , voltage, and capacity.
I assume the best case would be too expensive so I would then plug in
prices and "fiddle" with the numbers to achieve a compromise.
I have the books with the ideal and perfect system calculations. I don't
know how to get to some real world formulas that take real world battery
specs and motor specs.
Questions I would like to answer are: How far can I expect to get on 12
D31 Optima Yellowtops with the vehicle outlined above? What happens when
I go to 14 batteries? How about 24 Trojan 6V-AGM? (with more than twice
the battery weight)
Thanks,
Jurgen Schmidt
San Antonio, TX
PS: Please keep the [JGS-EV] in the header of your reply so I can search
for my messages and their replies.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dale,
Care to explain where you see unsafe driving promoted?
Anticipating is recommended by every organisation that
cares for increased safety and/or increased car mileage.
Only drivers who want to squeeze in front of of the queue
create the tendency to brake hard at the last second,
so nobody has the room to outmanoevre you.
Safety is not a concern for those last-second-anchor-men.
Now you are telling me that if I allow myself and others
the time to respond and anticipate and keep space in front
of my car that I promote unsafe driving?
Why? Because someone is impatient and will try to pass me
via the bike lane so he can squeeze in front of me?
It sounds ass backwards to me. Enforce safe driving and
punish the risk-takers and impatient tailgaters (ie - everyone
who is driving UNsafe, as defined in the vehicle code) and you
target the problem, instead of telling everyone to follow
the bad examples.
I'll continue to let go of the accelerator when I judge that
I will still arrive at the light with a decent speed,
dependent on how busy the road is.
Of course I do not want to create a hazard by creeping up
to the light for a long distance, with a row of frustrated
drivers behind me.
But on a 6-lane street I will still let the accelerator
up some 500 ft away from the light and if there is someone
that absolutely needs to pass me and squeeze in front,
then he is free to do so. I will likely overtake him before
we are at the next light and if not, then he is the one
paying his own gas bill and I will pay my PG&E bill...
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of dale henderson
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:01 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: How much does it cost to take-off?
I would be careful on how you state your driving methods. Although it could
be argued that bending the traffic rules does allow the most efficient
driving I would not state them in a public forum. If there are some
accidents involving electric vehicles certain bad people [cough: big oil,
GM], might use these records as proof that EVs and conversions promote
unsafe conditions and hence need more regulations [aka ways of stopping
them].
note: i did not say big oil and GM above, but my cough might have sounded
like them.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/13/2007 5:17:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
the second reason makes it a small miracle that
you can gain between 5 and 10% range with regen braking.
It all depends on your driving conditions. The above statement is true if
your on flat roads with few stops. If your in an area with many stop lights
and
steep hills this number can change dramatically. A Solectria Force AC
system can recover up to 30 percent. Depending on the terrain and driving
conditions of an overall trip up to 10 to 15 percent recovered can be
normal.
I prefer to adapt my driving style to minimize braking by
anticipating long in advance,
This is definitely the most efficient when there are no ICE drivers behind
you. I try to retain as much momentum adjusting the regen as needed to
achieve
this. That way if the light changes you retain more energy than you would
with regeneration. This is best though if there is no ICE vehicles behind
you.
I found that if you mark your vehicle as being ICE you have all kinds of
people trying to set themselves up to pass you. Say your waiting at a stop
light
I have had people get over to the slow lane when they figure out they are
behind an EV. Even getting behind a transit bus thinking it will out
accelerate
an EV. Then when I take off with traffic they are frustrated they figured
wrong and get back to the fast lane.
It will be interesting when more vehicles are on the road with regeneration.
What will happen when more drivers are holding back rushing up to a stop
light?
Don
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
