EV Digest 6416
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: what does unsprung mass or weight mean?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVs and Car and Driver magazine
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) C&D UPS12-475FR Batteries
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: aero dynamics
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Any suggestions for electric heater cores for pack voltages over
300vdc?
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: aero dynimics
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Thunder-Sky LiIon Batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: C&D UPS12-475FR Batteries
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: A/C Motor voltage?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Articles on RE: what does unsprung mass or weight mean?
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Nissan Begins Selling the Altima Hybrid, Futurecar on tonight
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well,
I guess it depends on what problem you want to solve which of the two
>models< work.
Basically unsprung means everything that is not dampened by springs, where
the body of the car is sitting on springs, but the wheels and everything
that moves up/down with the wheels over height differences in the road is
part of the unsprung weight.
If you are concerned about the contact between wheel and road due to the
unsprung weight of the rear axle and diff of a pickup truck, then it does
not help to include the weight of engine pistons, because any optimization
of engine components does nothing to keep the wheels on the road.
If you plan to install wheel motors, then they automatically become a
natural part of the unsprung weight.
If you have a motor hanging off a diff, then it may be your concern that the
motor is part of the unsprung weight (when you have a solid axle - with
half-shafts the diff and motor are bolted to the vehicle and not unsprung)
and can deteriorate the handling of the car. Another effect is the impact
(literally) of bumps and potholes on the components that are unsprung.
Some see the unsprung weight as evil, impacting range many more times than
the weight of anything attached to the vechicle, but that is bollocks. It is
a concern that large wheel/axle weight will not allow the tire to follow the
road, because a bump will throw the wheel up and due to its mass it will
take a while to come down again, resulting in loss of contact between wheel
and road. Also the bump represents a small force that slows the car down,
but the following depression will represent a force to accelerate the car
again, though not as large because the pressure of the tire on the road is
lower when following a depression than when hitting a bump.
Resulting, there is a small effect of unsprung weight that causes a slightly
higher loss than the same weight attached ot the car, but this is a few
percent at the most, not several times the weight effect. The main problem
is the loss of contact with the road if it is not flat.
Unsprung weight on a perfectly flat road (like a new laid asphalt lane) is
not noticeable, except that a large mass at the wheel rim will require more
torque to accelerate than the same mass at the wheel hub, but that is an
entire different subject, because it does not depend on sprung/unsprung but
on rotational mass. The *sprung* flywheel is just as important in the
rotational mass, probably more important than anything else because it turns
at high speed (before tranny) and as the name indicates, it is meant to be
rotational mass, quite superfluous in an EV but necessary in an ICE.
Personally I am not interested in fast acceleration with my EV, as I use my
EV to conserve primary energy due to its efficiency. Gaining a few
milliseconds by reducing rotational mass is not my concern, I am not racing.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:29 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: what does unsprung mass or weight mean?
Peter,
I'm sure that there is more energy savings by reducing weight in the
drivetrain than by the same reduction in weight reduction of "carried
weight" like freight.
There are many other factors like "moment of inertia"
and the effects of reducing weight at the outside of the wheels versus the
reductions in weight at center hub area. Some of these are very
substantial. A reduction of a single ounce at the tire perimeter would be
far preferable to a reduction at the hub center.
The repeated stops and starts at the piston stroke ends is an area of wasted
energy. This may not be a specific area defined as "sprung vs: unsprung",
but again if you reduce piston weight, you save more energy than weight of
freight.
Some moving parts like the crankshaft have benefits of having weight that
may be required, versus a driveline for example, where a lighter weight
would be always(?) beneficial and therefor preferable to a reduction in same
weight savings of carried freight.
At any rate, our definition at Michelin was to include drivelines and other
engine/trans components into the same definition of "unsprung" as wheels and
tires.
Additionally, it was a frequent area of concern to trace vibrations that
were mistakenly blamed on tires too, although the tires are always the first
suspect cause.
What say the engineers?
Regards,
Jay Lashlee, GoWheel.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---------------------------------------
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On a truck, if you had extra weight in the
> drivetrain
> > (wheels, tires, driveline, pistons, crankshaft,
> gears,
> > pulleys, fanbelts), it would be "unsprung weight".
>
> Umm, no. Only the weight that is out by the wheels and moves with the
> wheels in "unsprung". I.e. the Wheels and tires part, but NOT the
> pistons, crankshaft, gears, pulleys, and fanbelts.
> All of the later parts
> are "sprung" since they are fixed to the body and carried by the
> suspension.
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to hear John's car got bumped AGAIN in Car & Driver. I recently
subscribed to the magazine from my daughters school fundraiser so I
could eventually see John's article. At least I don't have to keep
running to the store to see if it's in there or not.
But I think C&D is still a bit lukewarm when it comes to EVs although
they seem to like the Tesla.
Not sure if you all caught this. In the March 2007 issue C&D
mentioned Chris Paine and WKTEC in their "QuoteUnquote" blurbs they
put at the top of the pages in the "Upfront" section.
************
"We let Toyota off the hook for how they subverted the program" -
Chris Paine, director of the documentary 'Who Killed the Electric
Car?' on how the filmmaker purposely chose not to examine Toyota's
failure with its electric RAV4 EV and instead went after only GM.
**********
I'm not exactly sure what their purpose was in putting that in
there. Roll with the punches I guess.
But this must be terrible for John to keep getting strung along.
Hopefully C&D will come through in May.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone have any experience with these?
http://www.anybattery.com/specs/pdf-10729830.pdf
I've seen a couple hiding under hoods on some vehicle on the EVAlbum and wonder
what peoples take on them are. I have the opportunity to pick up 72 of these
from my company that will get donated to the AlaskaEVA to support school
projects. I'm working it from my companies side to get proper waiver of
liability. I also want to get some kids currently working on a high school
project some batteries to help their budget constraints. I know the history of
the batteries and I wouldn't try to push this deal if I thought they weren't
salvagable. In fact they were tied for 1 year to a lightly loaded UPS that
was extremely infrequently called on for backup. Then they sat for two years
with the UPS unloaded completely. If I can work the deal I'll get them charged
good before they're cut lose and put a load tester on them to help ID the
stinkers (if any). Then we'll implement the plan to get them in the hands of
the folks running the school projects. Does anyone think this is
not worth the effort?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
another by product of streamlining the under side is that I could add 1/2 in of
insulation below then cover it with plastic . I checked out the photos that
were referenced with Victor's answer and that is the kind of plastic I had
thought about ... niceto know I am on at least 1 right tract
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: aero dynamics
> Or maybe not - aerodynamics are not necessarily intuitive. Ask Jerry
> Dycus.
Im confused, are you serious or poking fun at Jerry?
Because Jerry claims that he DOES intuitively know aerodynamics, that is
how he can state with authority what the Cd of his various vehicles is
without having to take measurements or perform calculations.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Solectria had a 50kw drive system. We're using a WarP 9" and Zilla
controller, which is >100kw. This should be as good or better than the
average car.
Solectria had regen braking, that takes some real-world wear and pressure
off the braking system, though it needs to be able to stop safely in the
case of a controller-blown-up (freewheel/no regen) or full battery (low
regen available due to voltage limit) situation.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I my New Beetle with upwards of 370 volts, I use the typical EV heater
designed for 240VAC which is about 340V peak to peak. No problems so far
(after a couple of years).
I got them from Randy at www.canev.com
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Wallace
Sent: February 14, 2007 1:04 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Any suggestions for electric heater cores for pack voltages over
300vdc?
Always something to consider, how to defrost in the winter. Has anyone come
across a ceramic heater core that would be appropriate for pack voltages
between 300 and 400vdc?
Paul Wallace
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
Is the Sunrise a Front Wheel Drive?
That will mainly determine where the parts come from - I seem to recall
that you have a rear diff, so you would need a front end from a RWD car,
for example BMW.
In this area the E30 series (BMW 3xx from years 1983 to 1991) are
very affordable and plentiful, no doubt they can be found on the junkyards.
Regards,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:19 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
Lee Hart wrote:
> The Volvo is the one car I've heard of that does this. Are there
> others?
I expect that many performance-oriented vehicles will use multi-piston
calipers (perhaps excluding those from North American manufacturers ;^).
Multi-piston calipers are also commonplace on most sportbikes.
> How would people feel if I used drum brakes on the Sunrise kit car?
>
> 1. Great idea! Eliminates dragging brakes, and probably cheaper too.
AFAIK drums haven't been used on the front end by any respectable
manufacturer for *years*; where would you source front drums and associated
suspension parts for the Sunrise? (Early '70's VW Beetle?) It is just as
likely that this will prove *more* costly than using a readily available and
commonplace disc-based front end. (I would expect that using front end
components from a popular model such as the Honda Civic could be the most
practical approach.)
> 2. Horrible idea! No one would even consider not having disk brakes
> nowdays.
Rear discs are probably unnecessary except for their marketing benefits.
By the same token, front drums would have a negative impact on marketing
since they are no longer used on modern production cars.
I would *not* use 4-wheel drums on a modern car because they require regular
maintenance (manual adjustment) to keep them operating properly.
Automatic adjuster schemes for drum brakes never work for long (if ever),
and as the brakes go out of adjustment slightly differently at each wheel
you end up with a very dangerous situation as the car will pull strongly
under braking and depending on the weight distribution of the car and
traction conditions can easily spin out of control. The most recent car I
drove with 4-wheel drums was a '71 Mach 1 and in wet conditions it would
swap ends even under relatively gentle braking if the brakes were not kept
properly adjusted. To be fair, my father's
'67(?) 4x4 half-ton PU with 4-wheel drums never exhibited this behaviour,
but it was also driven considerably differently ;^)
I think front discs are pretty much mandatory these days, both from a
marketing and performance/safety view. If you could find a donor for the
front end that was available in both disc and drum versions, then individual
builders can choose their own poison. Or, find a donor for which there are
multi-piston calipers available as an option for those builders willing to
bear the cost. Again, a recent Honda (or Acura) donor for the front end
components would seem to be a good choice since aftermarket multi-piston
calipers are available to replace the stock single-piston calipers, for
instance:
<http://aj-racing.com/catalog/product.php?productid=977&cat=0&page=2>
My final plea: for Pete's sakes, even NEVs are running front discs and rear
drums! ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We're pretty close to locking in a venue right near Mason Dixon with a huge
parking lot for the 2nd. Tracy will not be denied at this point.
We absolutely plan on doing a Scooter/Go-Kart Cross as well as the AutoCross
on Saturday, albeit on a shorter course (for the scooters anyway). The
Florida guys used that format at the BBB and it worked out great. More folks
involved, so more fun for all.
We;ll definately post updates on the http://www.EVAutoX.com site (plug plug
plug..go check it out) as they develop.
Regards, Mike
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
(877) 841-9730
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.harveyev.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:58 PM
Subject: RE: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
Hi Rich,
Thanks for the info. What Mike and I are planning to do for the Power of
DC is hold the AutoCross on Saturday June 2 and the drag race Sunday June
3.
So spreading the charging across two days shouldn't be too much of an
issue for the competitors.
We have the drag strip reserved for the Mason Dixon Dragway in Maryland
as in years past. Its just nailing down a venue for the AutoCross but
Mike and his wife Tracey are looking into that.
We'll probably look into doing a ScooterCross as well just like Shawn did
at the BBB. So the 2 wheelers can have some fun as well.
I agree with Shawn that having both types of events really shows the EVs
capabilities and running in the AutoCross is pretty fun as well.
A few years ago when the Custom Van movement was popular we used to race
our vans on a slalom course set up on an old airport runway at the annual
Van-In meet. Because we were pretty much racing air- brushed shoeboxes and
sometimes under the influence of a few Budweisers it wasn't unusual for a
van to flip. The goal at the time was not so much to beat the clock as it
was to get your van through the course in one piece without flipping it.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Feb 13, 2007, at 3:26 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: February 13, 2007 12:06:56 PM EST
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
Hey Rich,
Thanks for the info on the magazine, that's a great idea. I will be in
Daytona next month so maybe I can drop in on them as well.
I think Chip and Mike are going to try to hold an EVAutocross in June at
the
Power of DC, much like we did at BBB. We try to hold the drag race at
one
time and the autox the next day or at least well spaced out so people
have
time to charge and change any settings on their cars. At the BBB we drag
race Friday night and run the autox the next afternoon. Having both at
the
event really does help show off the capabilities of the EV, not only on
the
drag strip, but on the course - power and handling. To watch some of the
EV's power down the track and then watch them run an autocross certainly
does change some people's views.
The participation and interest in EV autox has been great. It's a lot of
fun
to not only enter but watch. Some folks, like some of the school teams,
will
also have multiple drivers per car which adds to the fun. The grins keep
coming!
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
561-543-9223
www.floridaeaa.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody else getting spammed from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei with his spam
arrest software each time I post to the EV list?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thats a good idea as long as you dont restrict the cooling of your
components as you drive, and you keep the weight down. It will also keep
your batts warmer (assuming you have floodies or AGMs and need that) in the
colder climates. The real upside is not getting junky road shizen in your
motor. I'm putting an ABS belly pan on mine Cabby currently for all of the
above reasons.
Regards, Mike
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
(877) 841-9730
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.harveyev.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:02 PM
Subject: aero dynimics
I was wondering about the bottom of my ev ?!! I think if I install a
solid piece of thin plastic (semi ridged) from front to rear left to
right leaving adequate room for tire movement it should make my e v
have less drag at little cost in either $ or weight . what do you guys
(and ladies) think ??
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Is the Sunrise a Front Wheel Drive?
> That will mainly determine where the parts come from - I seem
> to recall that you have a rear diff, so you would need a front
> end from a RWD car, for example BMW.
Not at all; a FWD front-end works just fine whether the Sunrise is front
or rear-wheel driven. Just leave out the front axles/CV joints for a
RWD application and adjust the toe appropriately. Using a FWD front end
opens up the possibility for an AWD Sunrise in future (perhaps even
hybrid...).
> In this area the E30 series (BMW 3xx from years 1983 to 1991) are
> very affordable and plentiful, no doubt they can be found on
> the junkyards.
Is this series still in production? The 3xx reference suggests that it
might already be 16 years out of production which could make it a poor
choice for a kit that might not even start being built for another year
or two.
I would favour a Japanese donor simply because new parts for a European
car can be astoundingly costly, and even if the Sunrise builder can get
a front end for a reasonable cost at the wrecker's, they will eventually
have to buy service items such as calipers, hoses, rotors, pads, etc.
If Lee is planning on a T-bird rear end (IIRC), then perhaps the
approach most considerate of the builder is to use the front end from
the same donor.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> Anybody else getting spammed from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei
> with his spam arrest software each time I post to the EV list?
No, we only get spammed by him when *we* post ;^>
(i.e. since he subscribed, anyone who posts to the list will receive
spam from his spam arrest software).
On the bright side, this means he is probably not getting any messages
from the list and will shortly either figure it out or unsubscribe. Too
bad the LISTPROC doesn't setup the headers such that the spam is sent to
the list server instead of the original poster since this would likely
result in the automatic supension of the offending address in short
order...
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I added him to my spam filter, problem solved.
On 2/14/07, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Don Cameron wrote:
> Anybody else getting spammed from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei
> with his spam arrest software each time I post to the EV list?
No, we only get spammed by him when *we* post ;^>
(i.e. since he subscribed, anyone who posts to the list will receive
spam from his spam arrest software).
On the bright side, this means he is probably not getting any messages
from the list and will shortly either figure it out or unsubscribe. Too
bad the LISTPROC doesn't setup the headers such that the spam is sent to
the list server instead of the original poster since this would likely
result in the automatic supension of the offending address in short
order...
Cheers,
Roger.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Front-end crashes seem to be the most common, so when a read end is
available that does not mean a front is available too, though if it is then
it can be better to scrap one car than two halves.
Agree on the use of the front end from a Front Wheel Drive, did not think
about simply leaving the half shafts unfitted. It may be necessary to cover
the holes to avoid road gunk entering, though I am not a mechanic.
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 2:02 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Is the Sunrise a Front Wheel Drive?
> That will mainly determine where the parts come from - I seem to
> recall that you have a rear diff, so you would need a front end from a
> RWD car, for example BMW.
Not at all; a FWD front-end works just fine whether the Sunrise is front or
rear-wheel driven. Just leave out the front axles/CV joints for a RWD
application and adjust the toe appropriately. Using a FWD front end opens
up the possibility for an AWD Sunrise in future (perhaps even hybrid...).
> In this area the E30 series (BMW 3xx from years 1983 to 1991) are very
> affordable and plentiful, no doubt they can be found on the junkyards.
Is this series still in production? The 3xx reference suggests that it
might already be 16 years out of production which could make it a poor
choice for a kit that might not even start being built for another year or
two.
I would favour a Japanese donor simply because new parts for a European car
can be astoundingly costly, and even if the Sunrise builder can get a front
end for a reasonable cost at the wrecker's, they will eventually have to buy
service items such as calipers, hoses, rotors, pads, etc.
If Lee is planning on a T-bird rear end (IIRC), then perhaps the approach
most considerate of the builder is to use the front end from the same donor.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thats poetic isn't it?
He puts us on a White List
We put him on a Black List.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:15 pm
Subject: Re: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> I added him to my spam filter, problem solved.
>
>
> On 2/14/07, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Don Cameron wrote:
> >
> > > Anybody else getting spammed from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei
> > > with his spam arrest software each time I post to the EV list?
> >
> > No, we only get spammed by him when *we* post ;^>
> >
> > (i.e. since he subscribed, anyone who posts to the list will receive
> > spam from his spam arrest software).
> >
> > On the bright side, this means he is probably not getting any
> messages> from the list and will shortly either figure it out or
> unsubscribe. Too
> > bad the LISTPROC doesn't setup the headers such that the spam is
> sent to
> > the list server instead of the original poster since this would
> likely> result in the automatic supension of the offending address
> in short
> > order...
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have just installed 45 ThunderSky TS-LFP80AHA batteries in my car and taken it
for a couple of test runs.
These batteries are GREAT!!!
Half the weight and at least 1.5 x the range of my old lead pack. Much less
voltage sag under acceleration also.
I am never gonna tow lead again... not ever!
Just a matter of finishing installing and fine tuning the BMS.
Regards, Rod Dilkes
www.dilkesmotors.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: C&D UPS12-475FR Batteries
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:22:06 -0900
>Anyone have any experience with these?
>http://www.anybattery.com/specs/pdf-10729830.pdf
>
>I've seen a couple hiding under hoods on some vehicle on
>the EVAlbum and wonder what peoples take on them are. I
>have the opportunity to pick up 72 of these from my company
>that will get donated to the AlaskaEVA to support school
>projects. I'm working it from my companies side to get
>proper waiver of liability. I also want to get some kids
>currently working on a high school project some batteries
>to help their budget constraints. I know the history of
>the batteries and I wouldn't try to push this deal if I
>thought they weren't salvagable. In fact they were tied
>for 1 year to a lightly loaded UPS that was extremely
>infrequently called on for backup. Then they sat for two
>years with the UPS unloaded completely. If I can work the
>deal I'll get them charged good before they're cut lose and
>put a load tester on them to help ID the stinkers (if any).
> Then we'll implement the plan to get them in the hands of
>the folks running the school projects. Does anyone think
>this is
> not worth the effort?
That depends on many things. But at that age they
are going to be very different so harder to keep in balance.
In my E woody I started with them, bought for $20
each and did 60mph on 4 of them but not for long, about 6
miles!! The Ewoody is a non aero, non optimised, 1,000 lb
EV.
But more of them, say 20 could do ok if the users
are willing to keep track of them. First they need to be
classified on how much they put out once charged in amps or
better amphrs, preferably after 5 or so cycles to wake them
up.
A cheap way to test is after waking them up, is to
discharge them in series and see which one flakes out in
what order, removing the bad ones as you go.
The voltage after charging can help sort as the
worst ones will have a lower fully charged voltage, checked
after sitting a couple yrs or just discharging about 5 amps
for a minute to take off the surface charge, let them sit 10
minutes, then check voltage.
In order to not waste the electricity during
testing, you can use it as heat for a building, shop, ect.
Once like ones are sorted, they will probably be good for a
couple yrs for the better ones, some probably will be dead
for all practical purposes.
A big consideration is how to get rid of them after
they die. He you can get money for then dead but I don't
know in Alaska, you might have to pay. They want $9/batt for
cores when you buy new batts now in Tampa if you don't have
them.
After playing with them I decided it was more
worthwhile to pay for new GC's which were only $60 each
then. I never had a balance problem again and got 25-30
miles from 6 t-105's and 45 mph. More speed with field
weakening if needed but 45 was good for my roads. Also the
VW bug front end wouldn't hold more batts and why I'm doing
the Freedom EV to hold 12 to get 100mile range with much
better aero, LRR tires and optimised.
Jerry Dycus
>
>Mike,
>Anchorage, Ak.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a couple of days I will know if I can offer few low voltage Siemens
AC systems. They are meant for EV and have been used in OEM VW City STROMer:
http://www.metricmind.com/images/city_stromer.jpg
There were about 300 such vehicles built. System voltage is 96
volts, it uses 1FV4104WS09 PM synchronous motor:
There is one listed in EV album - http://austinev.org/evalbum/160.htm
I had a privilege to drive this vehicle which belong to my business
partner in Holland. At 96V it's not a rocket but very adequate for
commuter vehicle. Absolute max voltage these inverters can
take is 160VDC; about 120VDC would be practical limit if you want to
have some room for regen. Max power will be 25-30kW in this case.
DC-DC converter and main contactors are all integrated into the inverter
and it's all in one water proof enclosure.
I'll let people know if we can make them available and if so, how many.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
MG wrote:
Thanks to all that have replied. The answers given are very helpful. Lee is
correct the motor control is from a fork lift and it probably me that he is
refering to. However until last week I could not get a good answer from the
designers of the controler. One of the programmers offered to help me with
some programming. So I am back on the trail to having an A/C powered car.
This is what I wanted from the beginning.
Thanks again!
Mike G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Front-end crashes seem to be the most common, so when a read
> end is available that does not mean a front is available too,
> though if it is then it can be better to scrap one car than
> two halves.
Agreed. Also, someone now has the option of buying a dead/rusted/etc.
but not wrecked donor. If one must buy from a wrecker, using parts from
the same donor vehicle (or even just the same brand) makes the builder's
life easier since it is common for wreckers to specialise in domestic or
european or japanese, so even if it takes more than one wreck to supply
the required parts at least there is the benefit of one-stop-shopping
;^>
> Agree on the use of the front end from a Front Wheel Drive,
> did not think about simply leaving the half shafts unfitted.
> It may be necessary to cover the holes to avoid road gunk
> entering, though I am not a mechanic.
There wouldn't be any holes to cover. The stub axle remains to support
the brake rotor and wheel assembly, but the outer CV and everything
inboard of it simply gets left off.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Cor and All,
Just though I'd mention no one has mentioned
MOL 1/2 the suspension arms, shock, springs weight needs to
be counted.
It's mostly important for comfort as more
unsprung weight means a harsher ride when going straight and
for safety in turns over bumps which when bad, can bump you
into the next lane!!
In most conversions with all their battery
weight, the ratio is rarely bad. In lightweight ones it can
make them undrivable.
I've went to composite suspension to cut
unsprung weight, built the rear trailing arn last week and
the front suspension this week.
Here amoung other SAE tech papers he wrote is
a good one under downloads on it.
http://www.rqriley.com/suspensn.htm and
http://www.rqriley.com/download.html
Others he has especially on lightweight and
3wh vehicles are very good with the math.
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: what does unsprung mass or weight mean?
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:11:24 -0800
>Well,
>
>I guess it depends on what problem you want to solve which
>>of the two models< work.
>Basically unsprung means everything that is not dampened by
>springs, where the body of the car is sitting on springs,
>but the wheels and everything that moves up/down with the
>wheels over height differences in the road is part of the
>unsprung weight. If you are concerned about the contact
>between wheel and road due to the unsprung weight of the
>rear axle and diff of a pickup truck, then it does not help
>to include the weight of engine pistons, because any
>optimization of engine components does nothing to keep the
>wheels on the road. If you plan to install wheel motors,
>then they automatically become a natural part of the
>unsprung weight. If you have a motor hanging off a diff,
>then it may be your concern that the motor is part of the
>unsprung weight (when you have a solid axle - with
>half-shafts the diff and motor are bolted to the vehicle
>and not unsprung) and can deteriorate the handling of the
>car. Another effect is the impact (literally) of bumps and
>potholes on the components that are unsprung.
>
>Some see the unsprung weight as evil, impacting range many
>more times than the weight of anything attached to the
>vechicle, but that is bollocks. It is a concern that large
>wheel/axle weight will not allow the tire to follow the
>road, because a bump will throw the wheel up and due to its
>mass it will take a while to come down again, resulting in
>loss of contact between wheel and road. Also the bump
>represents a small force that slows the car down, but the
>following depression will represent a force to accelerate
>the car again, though not as large because the pressure of
>the tire on the road is lower when following a depression
>than when hitting a bump. Resulting, there is a small
>effect of unsprung weight that causes a slightly higher
>loss than the same weight attached ot the car, but this is
>a few percent at the most, not several times the weight
>effect. The main problem is the loss of contact with the
>road if it is not flat.
>
>Unsprung weight on a perfectly flat road (like a new laid
>asphalt lane) is not noticeable, except that a large mass
>at the wheel rim will require more torque to accelerate
>than the same mass at the wheel hub, but that is an entire
>different subject, because it does not depend on
>sprung/unsprung but on rotational mass. The *sprung*
>flywheel is just as important in the rotational mass,
>probably more important than anything else because it turns
>at high speed (before tranny) and as the name indicates, it
>is meant to be rotational mass, quite superfluous in an EV
>but necessary in an ICE. Personally I am not interested in
>fast acceleration with my EV, as I use my EV to conserve
>primary energy due to its efficiency. Gaining a few
>milliseconds by reducing rotational mass is not my concern,
>I am not racing.
>
>Hope this clarifies,
>Cor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just right click on the E-mail message and click BLOCK SENDER and then click
REPORT THIS JUNK E-MAIL TO YOUR SERVER.
The server may then block all his e-mail to there server.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "MIKE WILLMON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
> Thats poetic isn't it?
> He puts us on a White List
> We put him on a Black List.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:15 pm
> Subject: Re: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> > I added him to my spam filter, problem solved.
> >
> >
> > On 2/14/07, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Don Cameron wrote:
> > >
> > > > Anybody else getting spammed from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei
> > > > with his spam arrest software each time I post to the EV list?
> > >
> > > No, we only get spammed by him when *we* post ;^>
> > >
> > > (i.e. since he subscribed, anyone who posts to the list will receive
> > > spam from his spam arrest software).
> > >
> > > On the bright side, this means he is probably not getting any
> > messages> from the list and will shortly either figure it out or
> > unsubscribe. Too
> > > bad the LISTPROC doesn't setup the headers such that the spam is
> > sent to
> > > the list server instead of the original poster since this would
> > likely> result in the automatic supension of the offending address
> > in short
> > > order...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Roger.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.electric-lemon.com
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I prefer the "punt the guy from the EVDL" option...
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: February 14, 2007 3:23 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
Just right click on the E-mail message and click BLOCK SENDER and then click
REPORT THIS JUNK E-MAIL TO YOUR SERVER.
The server may then block all his e-mail to there server.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "MIKE WILLMON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
> Thats poetic isn't it?
> He puts us on a White List
> We put him on a Black List.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:15 pm
> Subject: Re: Spam Arrest from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei,
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> > I added him to my spam filter, problem solved.
> >
> >
> > On 2/14/07, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Don Cameron wrote:
> > >
> > > > Anybody else getting spammed from Mr. Michael L. Werth Sensei
> > > > with his spam arrest software each time I post to the EV list?
> > >
> > > No, we only get spammed by him when *we* post ;^>
> > >
> > > (i.e. since he subscribed, anyone who posts to the list will receive
> > > spam from his spam arrest software).
> > >
> > > On the bright side, this means he is probably not getting any
> > messages> from the list and will shortly either figure it out or
> > unsubscribe. Too
> > > bad the LISTPROC doesn't setup the headers such that the spam is
> > sent to
> > > the list server instead of the original poster since this would
> > likely> result in the automatic supension of the offending address
> > in short
> > > order...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Roger.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.electric-lemon.com
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
> Nissan Begins Selling the Altima Hybrid in Eight States
The Nissan Altima Hybrid is the first hybrid vehicle built
in the United States by a Japanese automaker.
Credit: Nissan
Nissan began selling its first hybrid vehicle, the 2007
Altima Hybrid, in late January. The vehicle is assembled in
Tennessee and is available in the eight states that have
adopted California emissions regulations: California,
Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York,
Rhode Island, and Vermont. The Manufacturer's Suggested
Retail Price for the Altima Hybrid is $24,400, and it also
qualifies for a federal tax credit of $2,350. The hybrid
vehicle is estimated to achieve 42 miles per gallon (mpg) in
city driving and 36 mpg on the highway, for a combined fuel
economy rating of 39 mpg. The vehicle mates a 2.5-liter,
4-cylinder engine to an electric motor and a continuously
variable transmission (CVT) for a total power rating of 198
horsepower, giving it slightly better performance than the
standard 4-cylinder Altima. Nissan offers a 4-cylinder
Altima with a CVT for $20,300$4,100 less than the
hybridbut its combined fuel economy of 25 mpg is less
than two-thirds of the fuel economy achieved by the hybrid
version. See the Nissan press release.
Meanwhile, Toyota Motor Corporation unveiled the all-new
Highlander Hybrid last week at the Chicago Auto Show.
According to Toyota, the 2008 Highlander is significantly
larger and roomier than the vehicle it replaces, yet its
fuel economy stays the same, at 31 mpg in the city and 27
mpg on the highway. That's an impressive achievement, since
the vehicle also weighs about 500 pounds more than the
earlier model. The 2008 Highlander Hybrid is slated to go on
sale in September. Buyers seeking to earn a federal tax
credit on the vehicle will have to buy it quickly, since the
tax credit for Toyota vehicles will expire on October 1st.
See the press releases from Toyota and the Internal Revenue
Service
On Discovery Channel tonight a new episode of
Futurecar at 8pm EST on the east coast.
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
