--- Begin Message ---
No - you didn't get the memo about it changing - that's all.
Now, if someone could just change ohms law we'll be set ;)
DC [EMAIL
PROTECTED])¢Ë\¢{Z{~Û×^g¬±¨ ~æjÛ.r¬jvµ§!y×âæ¯qªÝ 3 ~æjÛbâ²Û¶Èì¹çn¢yriÇ ¦ÓË StÈ*.®,¶)à±Ø¬¦V²¶¬ë,j²¢êæj)i®+jh¬lzÛh±éÝ<°51LãKa©Ý籧cºËbDate: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 07:33:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: "New" motors for the KillaCycle - 2 for sale
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hey Shawn, Bill, all
I opened Bill's reply this morning fully expecting
Bill to call Shawn on his blatant "thread stealing"
tactics. Hey David, can do something about Shawn the
list troll, LMAO!
Actually, Shawn was really torn on his decision to
part with these motors. In the end we all have to do
what we have to do, so I was okay with his choice
(even though I poured my heart and soul into them,
sniff, sniff.)
These are the first motors I did with the heavy duty
solid copper brush leads as well as having the temp
sensor attached to the brush holders vs. located in
the fields which is a poor area to attach to. Anyway
I'm hopeful someone will give them a good home and
they'll get some good abuse... I mean use, lol.
BTW nice Ebay page format shawn. I was joking with
the wife saying "great! now I get to be Ebay spammed
to death" LMAO!!
Shawn has these pretty documented but I thought I'd
offer any additional info I might have or answer
questions if needed to anyone looking at these motors.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The "Buy it now" price of $750 is super bargain.
> These motors should
> sell quickly. Without that upper limit, I would have
> expected these
> motors to go for about $1,000 each.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> At 09:13 PM 2/21/2007, you wrote:
> >Last fall Jim Husted took 2 ADC 6.7" Tropica motors
> and re-worked them for
> >me for a drag bike I was going to build that was to
> have a dual-motor setup.
> >He Kevlar banded the comms, advanced them, moved
> the temp sensor to the
> >brush holder and added solid copper brush leads,
> and more - the same mods he
> >has since done to Bill's Killacycle motors. These
> motors are pure works of
> >art. To echo the words of John, Bill and others,
> Jim is THE man when it
> >comes to motors.
> >
> >Unfortunately, for several reasons, the bike
> project is not going to be. I
> >am selling the bike frame and parts and after
> talking with Jim tonight, I
> >have listed the motors on eBay for sale. There are
> lots of pictures and
> >details of the motors on the listing. If anyone is
> interested or has any
> >questions please let me know.
> >
> >The listings are:
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230095715956
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230095716902
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Shawn Waggoner
> >561-543-9223
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:24:11 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Arrogant Ignorance
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Yeah, those stupid laws of Physics were getting old anyway, it's about
time someone got around to updating them.
> No - you didn't get the memo about it changing - that's all.
>
> Now, if someone could just change ohms law we'll be set ;)
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 07:34:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Brueggemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: T-105 Sitcker Shock
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I realize that Trojan's are the deep discharge battery of choice
> but US Battery is just as good and a lot cheaper.
No, not a lot cheaper. When I bought a USB pack (2200's) the
price difference was about $200. It turns out my charger won't
charge them to the algorithm Nawaz later described to me that
they require, and the pack was toast in 6000 miles. I'd
have to buy a new charger and 8 or 10 sets of USB's to just
break even. Nothing against USB's, but I can't use them for
economic reasons.
Mark Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu, ListServ@electricmotorcycles.net
Subject: RE: "New" motors for the KillaCycle - 2 for sale
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:35:14 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
I'm not sure how much the Jim Husted magic costs, but stock these motors
have been seen for a lot less, probably because John Wayland bought a lot of
about 32 of these a couple of years ago and spread them around at his cost
of $125 each. I got one for that price then picked up another in trade for
some old NiCads I had laying around. For racing these motors might be a
bargain, but for just building a street motorcycle, probably not.
damon
>From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: RE: "New" motors for the KillaCycle - 2 for sale
>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 07:17:49 -0700
>
>The "Buy it now" price of $750 is super bargain. These motors should sell
>quickly. Without that upper limit, I would have expected these motors to go
>for about $1,000 each.
>
>Bill Dube'
>
>At 09:13 PM 2/21/2007, you wrote:
>>Last fall Jim Husted took 2 ADC 6.7" Tropica motors and re-worked them for
>>me for a drag bike I was going to build that was to have a dual-motor
>>setup.
>>He Kevlar banded the comms, advanced them, moved the temp sensor to the
>>brush holder and added solid copper brush leads, and more - the same mods
>>he
>>has since done to Bill's Killacycle motors. These motors are pure works of
>>art. To echo the words of John, Bill and others, Jim is THE man when it
>>comes to motors.
>>
>>Unfortunately, for several reasons, the bike project is not going to be. I
>>am selling the bike frame and parts and after talking with Jim tonight, I
>>have listed the motors on eBay for sale. There are lots of pictures and
>>details of the motors on the listing. If anyone is interested or has any
>>questions please let me know.
>>
>>The listings are:
>>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230095715956
>>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230095716902
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Shawn Waggoner
>>561-543-9223
>
_________________________________________________________________
Want a degree but can't afford to quit? Top school degrees online - in as
fast as 1 year
http://forms.nextag.com/goto.jsp?url=/serv/main/buyer/education.jsp?doSearch=n&tm=y&search=education_text_links_88_h288c&s=4079&p=5116
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: case for ev's (was sticker shock)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:33:12 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
aka "TheUnexamined Drive Cycle is Not Worth Living" or something like that
ok, so that was some real diversity of ev opinion, from someone far more
seasoned than my present (0 miles total, maybe 10 yards) in an ev experience
so far.
forgetting even Al Gore and contentious and somewhat disputable global
warming claims, even general environmental factors (more CoO2 is worse than
less, Al's spiel aside) the case for electrics can still be compelling
considering (and I dobn;t hve all the facts handy or even acurate right now,
but:)
- extra hundreds of millions of Chinese, Indian and even OPEC nation drivers
coming 'on line' over the next few decades
- end of 'easy oil' era, whether or not actual production has peaked or not
- some massive part of our trade deficit due to oil, for which something
like each million (billion) barrels consumed displaces 24,000 US Jobs (my
figures are likely off, I'm packing for vacation right now!)
- consider alternative energy options:
-) Diesel - likely better than (non plug-in) hybrids, us needs to go
from 2% diesel vehicles closer to
the 45% or so of Europe, likely. Still, just helps stretch the petroleum
supply.
-) bio fuels: biodiesel and ethanol can only go so far, given that the
world doesn't readily produce way too much food as it is - deo we feed our
cars instead of our people (though those people may not nec.ly be in the
us - the National Review guy actually had some good points about the overall
global picture)
-) fuel cells - ok, technically an 'energy carrier' rather than a
source, not really feasible for several decades and at what masive cost, for
transportation??
Which leaves us with
-) Electric: some recent report had it that something like 180 million
plug-in vehicles could be powered from the electric grid, at night, without
adding any new power plants
Contrarian note (much like responses to Al): some utility guys say this
isn't so, since a lot of load is moved to nightime by energy intensive
industries; I tend to believe the roport (even if it IS sponsored by
something as sinister as 'industry' - you don't have to be a Thomas Kuhn or
Karl Popper expert to realize most 'scientific research' out there is likely
tainted by someone's bias) - something I'd like to learn more about.
Nevertheless, Electric may be the best resource for the coming energy
tightening, globally and esp. here in the US where we use so much of it.
So, inconveniences aside, perhaps making electric drive more convenient,
hoping for something better than heavy lead acid (those Firefly batteries
would sure be nice, presumably not so pricey as Lithium) seems to be the
order of the day (and getting ev's out there for people to have as a serious
option).
TaTa for now,
Seth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 4:16 AM
Subject: RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
> BTW,
> Did you contact Hensley? They are supposed to be the official main dealer
> of
> Trojan in NM
> http://www.trojan-battery.com/About-Us/SiteMap2.aspx
> If anyone can give you a good deal on a pack, they should be able to
> (usually you can get a
> much better price for a pallet than for a single retail battery, I
> organised
> a bulk buy for
> myself and two other EV'ers and registered with the supplier as a dealer,
> so
> I got the
> dealer pricing) You need 24 batteries if you need to replace them all,
> that
> is a reasonable
> amount of lead.
>
> I hear that you are aware of the impact we have on this earth, that is a
> good point to start from when changing things for the better, I have used
> the bicycle for as many local trips as possible and still I like to ride
> to
> work once a week, though the distance is 10 mi each way.
> Not sure how you classify "sending more than my fair share of lead to the
> recycler", the recycling is included in the cost of the battery, so
> recycling it should be fair. In fact, recycling EV batteries is a whole
> lot
> better than the primary batteries that I see go to the landfill by the
> millions. (Not to mention the UPS'es with the lead battery still
> installed,
> chucked in the waste bin)
> I did not say that an EV was an ideal solution, but the way you put it
> sounds very negative, it surprises me because I usually hear this kind of
> take on EV's only from people who are ill-informed.
>
> To quote one example: you pay for a smoker's poor health. Does that make
> smoking a good option? No, not only exactly because of the effect on
> health,
> but also because a smoker will pay higher premiums due to the impact of
> his
> decisions on his health. That can even go to the point that a doctor
> refuses
> to treat him unless he quits.
>
> Why do you say that my joy and piece of mind are intangible as if you can
> dismiss it, having no value and thus it would not justify paying money for
> it. Seeing a movie is intangible. Having many transceivers is intangible,
> because mostly you are only chatting with someone else. How can you
> justify
> having so much equipment in your truck? Sorry, but I think this is a
> non-argument. The EV grin is for real.
>
> I completely agree with you that urban sprawl is the cancer eating at our
> society and our environment and I hope that enough people see it soon
> enough
> to change the zoning laws that make the US such a segregated society with
> living in one part of town, work in another, school in yet another and
> shopping usually outside of town. Not a good planning to go everywhere
> walking, biking or by public transport and meeting your neighbors is a
> special event.
> Very soon the planners will be forced to reconsider, so until that moment
> I
> will continue to bite my lip and try to influence at local level (BPAC) to
> keep pedestrian and bicycling facilities from falling prey to the hunger
> of
> the automobile.
>
> Although my driving-an-EV will not likely make an impact at national or
> global level, it is a witness at my personal level and everyone around me,
> my neighborhood, church, company, everyone regularly commuting through
> Santa
> Clara - literally thousands of people are becoming aware that it is
> possible
> to commute by EV and use a car for almost all of your driving without
> using
> (imported) oil.
> Like Lee once said, it is almost impossible to convey a personal vision to
> others, but it is possible to stand up, go to the driver of the bus and
> say
> "let me out, right here. I think the bridge is out and I don't want to
> find
> out too late". Some others may follow you. If enough people become aware
> that EVs are possible, they will be made because there is a market. Plug
> In
> America shows that with the right efforts, a lot of awareness can be
> harnessed.
> Seeing GM switch to an electric drivetrain, because that is the most
> flexible and efficient platform to run multiple different fuel types on
> (oil, ethanol, hydrogen or straight battery electric) simply by converting
> everything to electricity first, well - that gives me hope that soon EV
> parts will be commonplace.
>
> BTW, I was talking about >my< pollution. Driving an EV keeps my tailpipe
> pollution away and since California has a large part of their energy
> generated by renewable means and an even larger part using natural gas,
> combined with me charging my car at night when there is a surplus of
> electricity, I know that my driving habit has an impact that is several
> times lower than when I would have an ICE vehicle for my daily driving.
>
> Yes, I am aware of your history in EVs and the famous double-needle
> state-of-charge meter
> that you designed, a very innovative idea that probably only a HAM can
> come
> up with.
> I looked at the bank of transceivers in your truck with a bit of envy, as
> I
> was a licensed
> amateur before I moved to the USA (PE1LEG)
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:52 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
>
> Hi Mark,
> Can I say that you sound slightly negative?
> Of course flooded batteries need maintenance. I hope you knew that when
> you
> converted your S10 10 years ago.
>
> You may call yourself lucky that you have had such good service from all
> your ICE cars, not many people have so much luck.
> Indeed, I bought a reasonable cheap car, it could run on LPG so that was a
> benefit until I found out a few months later that it had engine troubles,
> probably already diagnosed by the person from whom I bought it, but hard
> to
> prove (and I had a mechanic check the car over, but he did not find it, so
> I
> thought it was OK when I bought it).
> I have had a lot of other issues with several ICE cars (and a lot of luck
> with some other) so today I am very happy with my second car - a Toyota
> Prius. But I do know that when it fails in anything connected to the
> engine
> or transaxle, the dealer will write a 4-figure bill just to start working
> on
> it, not even including parts.
>
> The reason I mentioned Asthma, is because I do have a daughter and she
> does
> suffer because of the pollution.
> Personally I am much more bothered by another kind of pollution, as I am a
> light sleeper and wake up several times a night from yet another
> individual
> who thinks he is making an impression by his ability to install an
> after-market exhaust or bass boost. I seriously wish that laws on noise
> pollution were actually enforced, because my health suffers from the
> trivial
> choices made by others.
>
> Anyway, to return to your issue:
> To get a good deal on used batteries, you could scout for "planned"
> replaced
> golf cart batteries (are there golf courses or communities with NEVs
> nearby?) and test your current batteries to see if there are a few
> stinkers
> and the rest is still reasonable, or that all are dead.
> In the first situation it makes sense to replace just the bad ones with
> used
> batteries.
> In the last case you need a lot of batteries and balancing them is going
> to
> be an issue, because they will be at different ages.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Brueggemann
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:07 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
>
> --- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>> I think you have the wrong perspective,
>
> Viewed from your perspective...
>
>
>> Nobody said that an EV is going to be much cheaper in the short run.
>
> Or the long run.
>
>
>> I am concerned about the actual cost of pollution
>
> I am not, and the masses don't either. I don't believe EV's are, as a
> whole,
> less polluting than any other vehicle.
> There's more to consider than just the generation/conversion of energy.
>
>
>> the price is paid by the people suffering from Asthma and other
>> problems, so it is a hidden cost
>
> I pay for cigarette smoker's cancer treatments too, so ultimately the
> have's
> pay more than the have-not's. You can't put a number
> on that. Not all asthma is caused by gasoline cars. Some will
> say part of global warming is caused from methane generated by McDonald's
> beef cows. Using your logic, Big Macs and Happy Meals cause global
> warming.
> Does it cancel out if I go through the drive-through in my EV?
>
>
>> and running my EV keeps the majority of pollution out of my
>> neighborhood,
>
> It has a magic air shield? I don't understand. My neighbor's Bonneville
> generates the same CO/CO2 whether I drive my EV or ICE. Did you used to
> drive something much more polluting that now your EV has lowered your
> neighborhoods' pollution level?
>
>
>> I am paying for piece of mind, which I value.
>
> That's intangible. I slept well at night before and after I built my EV.
>
>
>> I don't see batteries as "fuel cost", but more as a
>> maintenance item.
>
> Agreed, but they have a fairly predictable, finite life, like
> tires. Technically it's not fuel, but their life and cost per
> mile are factors to be considered in the overall operating cost.
> If you are ingoring that, you are ignoring reality. No matter
> what column you put it in, the cost falls to the bottom line.
>
>
>> The reduced maintenance cost on my car, which has been to the
>> dealer since <NEVER>, at a cost of <zero> is more or less
>> paying for the cost of the batteries.
>
> I've seen this point brought up over the years and I still don't
> get it. My wife and I bought a gasser family car not long after
> I finished my EV. It has been to the dealer <NEVER> as well.
> Over 100K miles and so far a set of brakes, tires, an SLI and
> oil changes. That's 2x the miles than I have on my EV. Not
> sure what kind of cars everyone's driving that needs thousands
> of dollars of repairs every few years. I've never spent that
> much on repairs for all the ICE's I've owned my entire life.
>
>
>> Note that the numbers from the AAA are that average US vehicle
>> operational cost
>
> Problem with that cost per mile figure is it makes a lot of
> assumptions as to vehicle acquisition costs, depreciation and
> regular replacement. It's also not factoring in the ultimate
> replacement of the EV chassis, which isn't something you can
> just go out and buy. It's not an apples-apples comparison.
> My ICE vehicle costs come nowhere near that figure, and I have
> 20+ years of accumulated data on all of them.
>
>
>> The fuel cost is then only the electricity,
>
> But you're hiding your head in the sand if you don't consider
> all of the operating costs. The fact that it's more 'green'
> than gasoline does have intangible benefits that need to be
> considered, but you can't look at that alone. The electricity
> is just a difference in potential without the machinery and
> storage to put it to work. That has real costs.
>
>
>> Since the price of raw lead has gone up steeply recently,
>> batteries have seen 2 or 3 price increases in the past year.
>
> I haven't been following battery news, and wasn't aware of
> that. That explains it.
>
>
>> Let me know if you have a different perspective ;-)
>
> I have an EV for less than altruistic reasons. It was a fun
> project, I learned a lot doing it and at this point I think
> my construction methods have proven themselves over time and
> miles. When I first built it at ~$1.25/gal I anticipated a break
> even operating point of $1.42 a gallon, given battery prices
> of the day and a clearly overoptimistic battery life estimation.
> Now that I've had a few packs through it and understand some
> of the limitations of flooded lead acid, that break even
> point is about double the initial estimate, and as of today,
> about 2.5 times, about $3.50/gal equivalent. I had a controller
> fail early on, so that really put a whammy on cost/mile, but
> I'm not even factoring that in right now. Then there's subtle
> things like tires and brakes that only last half as long, the
> chassis gets the shit beaten out of it from all the extra weight,
> requiring twice as often suspension repairs, and minor electrical
> maintenance like terminal upkeep, watering and other random
> issues. So really, it's still like owning a gas car, just that
> you work on different things for different reasons. Now, in the
> grand scheme of things, the overall cost of ownership is still
> way cheaper than many gas vehicles out there, and because I need
> a pickup truck, the acquisition cost of a replacement ICE
> equivalent keeps the EV as a contender. But this EV is not an
> inexpensive vehicle to operate. For those more concerned about
> the environment, doing the "right thing", energy independance,
> etc then this additional cost might be worth it, but only in
> their own mind. I understand a lot of that, but I also
> understand the economic side of it, and I don't believe battery
> EV's are the answer, at least not today. I think it's a bit
> hypocritical to evangelize a mode of transportation that hasn't
> proven itself to be practical. If they were, you could buy one.
> To me, it's a shiny box I get into and go to work, take to the
> grocery store, haul trash to the dump, etc, just like millions
> of other people in their shiny boxes, irrespective of motive
> force. If you think you're going to change political and
> economic forces on a national and global level by driving an
> EV and sending more than your fair share of lead to the recycler,
> you're working it from the wrong end. I have not seen how EV's
> solve some of the more fundamental issues surrounding private
> vehicle ownership like urban sprawl, land consumed my ever
> expanding roads, and the byproducts of EV production and disposal.
> I understand that while underway they are less polluting, but
> they still need tires, have lots of plastic parts, involve the
> smelting of steel and aluminum, plus a fair share of
> semiconductors and their inherent byproducts of production and
> disposal. Not to mention the *millions and millions* of spent
> batteries to be dealt with, irrespective of chemistry. This
> all costs time, energy (real and personal) and material
> resources, however inert they may or may not be.
>
> EV's can be fun and cool, but in terms of being a solution
> to the national/global problems at hand, they ain't it.
> A step towards a better solution perhaps, but BEV's
> couldn't make it 30 years ago, and they won't today. It's
> not like I just hopped in here on EVDL to beat up on EV's,
> I've been at this game a while and have experienced pretty
> much everything associated with them. I started off
> objectively and I think I still am. I hope you see this not
> as an effort to pee in your wheaties but an honest observation
> from someone that's been there, done it, and isn't convinced.
> Meanwhile, I guess I'll plan on getting another pack, beats
> walking to work or an outright vehicle replacement.
>
> Mark Brueggemann
> Albuquerque, NM
> S-10 EV
> 50K EV miles since 1997
>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:15:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: National Science Foundation's EV Cafe'
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
The National Science Foundation sponsors the Arlington Cafe Scientifique which
it bills as "A Place to Eat, Drink and Talk About Science." On March 6th the
Cafe' Scientifique invites Dave Golstein, President of the Electric Vehicle
Association of Washington, DC to speak about the science behind electric cars.
Participants are encouraged to get there early to see the cars including MIT's
enterent to the Tour de Sol in 1994 called the AZTEC. The AZTEC is a commuter
class solar assisted electric vehicle built out of super light weight composite
materials and aerodynamically shaped. There will also be Joseph Lado's EV SOL,
an electric car converted in 1993 from a Pontiac, Fiero base. Mr. Lado's bright
yellow vehicle sports standard household type solar panels that are
incorporated into the front hood and back deck and is used on a daily basis to
commute to and from work powered only by electricity from a regular 110 volt
household outlet. There will be other electric cars as
well, so come and
visit. The event will be held at the National Science Foundation, 4201 Wilson
Blvd, Arlington VA 22230, with light hors d'oeuvres being served by The Front
Page restaurant where you can also purchase drinks and a meal if you wish.
Cafe' Scientifiques normally begins with a short presentation and are followed
by Q&A. No science background required and it is free and open to the public.
Science makes many things possible, including alternative fuels and modes of
personal transportation. But are they a reasonable alternative for the average
consumer? When does "alternative" become "mainstream?" Goldstein and other
electric vehicle experts and users will discuss the science behind electric
cars, such as fuel cells and battery technology, and some of the issues
surrounding their use and acceptance.
Cafe Scientifque flourished first in the U.K. (see
http://www.cafescientifique.org) as a way for the public and scientists to
mingle and discuss science issues in an informal setting. At least 35 cafés
now exist in the U.S. The National Science Foundation initiated Café
Scientifique (Arlington) and its occasional cousin in Washington D.C. in April
2006 to make science more accessible and accountable by featuring speakers
whose expertise spans the sciences - and who can talk in plain English.
Generally held on first Tuesdays at the Front Page.
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:05:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Battery load tester
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Disposition: inline
John and all,
Here is a response I posted a while back for a guy wanting to test 6 volt
batteries.
"I never liked the "hot wire in water" method. So I use large power
resistors. MECI has some for cheap.
http://www.meci.com/index.php
Look under resistors, under braking. There is a 0.069 Ohm resistor for $7.
It is probably rated about 1000 watts. By the time you add cable resistance,
you will be close to 75 amps. Who cares if it is 69 or 81 amps? Use the same
set up on a known good battery and same for the ones in question and compare
times. I use an old forklift contactor, but you could get by without that. I
would use some type of disconnect, like an Anderson, so you not fussing with a
nut and bolt to disconnect battery. Things will get hot. You'd also have to
fab up a support for the resistor. Laying it on a piece of wood will probably
get smokey. Put two resistors in parallel and it will cut your test time
down."
You can buy multiple resistors and configure in series or parallel to suit
your needs. I have used these for 6 volt thru 48 volt batteries and packs
using just the contactor. I also configured a set of 24 resistors to test
packs up to 400 volts and 400 amps, but built an IGBT converter to control
current and turn it on and off. The large high voltage set was housed in a
steel cabinet with fans.
My opinion is to make a decent tester which you can count on to be
repeatable. The low voltage version does not require a lot of $ or work.
Jeff
John O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've seen people post numerous times about the coat hanger in water
as a load and I have to ask; Is there anything else involved with
this method other than
1 bucket of water and
1 coat hanger with wires connecting it to battery + and - ?
Haw do you make the final connection without excessive sparking?
What is the max voltage you can do this with in relative safety?
On Feb 21, 2007, at 9:28 AM, Don Cameron wrote:
> I have two load testers. The typical 12V battery tester that has
> heating
> elements in a metal case combined with a voltmeter - its for 12V
> but I am
> sure will work for 8V. Purchase it at your local auto store.
>
> The other one I have is a couple of coils of coat hanger I immerse
> into a
> bucket of water. Gives me a nice 100A draw, but a little difficult
> to lug
> around.
>
>
---------------------------------
It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"SFEVA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Lester Charger for free.
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:38:42 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have an 84v(hear tell this can be changed) Lester charger. No cover.
Maybe someone can repair and use this unit. Free for the taking. Lawrence
Rhodes
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:01:43 -0800
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: A123 to get more expensive? was RE: Torqeedo Power
lithium-manganese
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
If I remember correctly, A123 is a lithium iron phospohate battery and
does not use manganese.
On the other hand, I heard that Altair Nano just went from cobalt to
manganese but their breakthrough is in the titanate material and so
they can go back to cobalt or some other chemistry as needed.
On 2/21/07, Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Turns out A123 (also manganese?) et al might have been in on a theft
> from the University of Texas...
>
> A couple of news reports from 2006:
> http://www.topix.net/content/trb/3119402705172064777241435958951067175151
> or tinyURL here:
> http://tinyurl.com/33sf2l
>
> and
> http://271patent.blogspot.com/2006/09/patent-battle-heats-up-for-lithium.html
> tinyURL here:
> http://tinyurl.com/3aqamy
>
> and now a news report from February 6th:
> "UT wins ruling in battery technology suit"
> here:
> http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/other/02/06/6utpatent.html
> tiny:
> http://tinyurl.com/34z8at
>
> Sorry to hear Hydro Quebec in on this, `cause they're really EV
> Positive... At least, unlike Chevron, these folks are fighting over who
> gets to market first, and not just trying to hold things up.
>
> tks
>
> Lock
> Toronto
> human-electric hybrid ped
>
>
> --- Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ya, 6Kw for their smaller 26-77 version. Ask `em about the bigger
> > one, and get prices too - I was too afraid to ask :)
> >
> > Looking for smaller packs right now for PEV, but will revisit these
> > manganese babes when I can spend on the 32-footer...
> >
> > tks
> > Lock
> > Toronto
> > human-electric hybrid pedestrian
> >
> >
> > --- Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > sounds like a good kind of battery for a motorcycle except that i
> > > couldn't
> > > see anywhere where it showed there max current draw. I saw an
> > example
> > > of
> > > 6000 watts but is that for bolth batteries or just the 37 volt one?
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > >Subject: Torqeedo Power lithium-manganese Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007
> > > 11:53:08
> > > >-0500 (EST)
> > > >
> > > >Just some batts I haven't seen mentioned on the EVDL. Being
> > marketed
> > > >for marine propulsion, but may be of interest to lubbers also...
> > > >
> > > >Seen here:
> > >
> >
> >http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/products/power/product-description.html
> > > >or tinyURL here:
> > > >http://tinyurl.com/324my8
> > > >Torqeedo Power 37-58
> > > >37.0 V
> > > >58 Ah
> > > >2,137 Wh
> > > >19 (41.9) Kg (lbs)
> > > >3 Hr mi. charge time
> > > >After 500 cycles of discharging the batteries down to 20% of their
> > > >charge and recharging them to full capacity, Torqeedo Power
> > > batteries
> > > >still carry 90% of their original capacity.
> > > >
> > > >tks
> > > >Lock
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--
www.electric-lemon.com
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Arrogant Ignorance
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:14:47 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I visited MDI's factory in southern France somewhere in 2000 and although
they had a few cars running and some brilliant minds, they were focussing on
the wrong problem and ignoreing the basic laws of thermodynamics which say
that expanding compressed air absorbs heat, lots of it. (It is available
when compressing it, that they already knew ;-)
Result is that although their vehicles worked and had lots of innovative
ideas and were extremely light-weight (composite body with alu tube frame,
glued together) and the kevlar-wrapped pressure tanks were lightweight and
strong, they could never run their engines very long or they would freeze
up.
Efficiency was also horrible, because the only way to get good return of
energy from high pressure is to reduce it in steps in ever increasing volume
cylinders, having a heat exchanger between each to increase temp and reduce
the freezing problem. I know it is difficult to build a motor with different
sized cylinders, but ignoring this and building a motor with a single
decompression step means wasting most of the energy in the air carried
along, so it is not used efficiently. Learn or die are the options.
But they did not want to hear these advices, so they suffered and I have not
seen their cars in commercial operation, even though they claim they had big
contracts (to be delivered in 2001 or so) with Mexico City to replace a
large fleet of taxi's and clean up the air.
Of course a careless film crew can take the statement "can recharge while
driving" and turn it around to make it something that was never claimed.
EV's get the same treatment often. I wonder if anybody from Tesla was asked
the question about reliability of the Roadster. Too bad I missed the show.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark E. Hanson
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 5:09 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Arrogant Ignorance
Did anyone see the Discovery show "Future Cars" last night 2/21/07 ? They
didn't do much research on the EV's and stating as a fact that an air car
can be perpetual motion. They pointed out that the Tesla had thousands of
cells, the MTBF must be horrible and claims of 130mph at 250 miles range are
rediculous. Some of the future car manufacturers I know are not on the
EVlist otherwise they would seperate fact from fiction. When I worked at
GE-EV most engineers thought prior electric vehicle knowledge on the EVlist
was silly. Their on-road EV division was desolved in 99' when I got laid
off. I've seen this "arrogant ignorance" (also occurs in high offices) over
the years in many new EV wannabee car companies, grab some newly minted
generic engineers (who could care less about EV's) do some fancy marketing,
troll for investors and EV's get a bad name in the public when basic
principals are ignored.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark in Roanoke, VA
---------------------------------
It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
--- End Message ---
