EV Digest 6541
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: A run in with Wayland
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Reva is the highest selling electric car in the world
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Precharge alternatives
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: datsun 1200
by KARSTEN GOPINATH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: datsun 1200
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: datsun 1200
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Precharge alternatives
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) More details on the dual chemistry NiMH (or NiCD) / Lead Acid AGM Pack
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Motor mods
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) OT Re: A run in with Wayland
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Motor mods
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: datsun 1200
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: New England EAA Meeting, followup
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: datsun 1200
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: datsun 1200
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re:2 11s and 1 13
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Jim, Jim, Jim.....where were you the day and night before? It's not all
Miss Oregon, biker chicks, and free doughnuts. Thursday, I had seven
electric pallet jacks and two electric reach trucks as my day's
break-downs at one place. By the end of the day, I was solo, up in the
air, covered in hydraulic fluid and grease, and was installing a 6 ft.
long 85 lb. ram and 50 lb. lift chains back into a Raymond Reach truck
until 7:30 pm. That made it a 12 hour day for me, and I hadn't eaten
anything since 10 am. While I was toiling away, I bet you were at home
with your mama eating warm fresh baked cookies and all.
See Ya.....John Wayland
Hmmm. Seems to me John doesn't want Jim to think he'd been Tom Sawyered.
Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Reva has already sold more electric cars than any
> manufacturer sold in the US.
They may just mean for a given model year. This is marketing (hype), not
reality.
As others noted, there certainly have been other manufacturers that have
sold more, EVER. How 'bout last year?
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Bruce
> Could you use a latching relay to avoid that tiny current
> draw while the car is on?
I guess you could... but I'd rather not have a relay that might latch on all
the time, even when you don't want it to be on. I'd rather have it so cutting
power turns everything off.
If you want to use a relay to switch the precharge, and not have it draw
current all the time, then power this relay through a big enough electrolytic
capacitor, so it pulls in for a few seconds when the key is turned on, and then
drops out. The conroller should have precharged by then; if not, something is
wrong!
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am debating between a 240z and a Datsun 1200 both same conditon and
same price. Which would be easier to convert? I know that White Zombie
is a Datsun 1200. Is that a pretty light chassis to start with? Any
pitfalls with the 1200 or the 240z I should know about. Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know very much about Datsun's other than my mom had a 280Z when I was a
kid. I would think the 240Z's longer snout would
allow you to easily fit two motors under the hood rather than the short stubby
nose of the 1200. I believe Wayland had difficulty
getting the two 8's in before he (I mean Jim Husted the worker man ;-)
siamese'd them together. It looks like this site has more
than anyone would want to know about the Z car http://zhome.com/ snip from
Performance Data taken below for the 240Z.
It appears average stock weight to be ~2350 lbs (same as a Pinto I might add).
The good thing about the Z car compared to the 1200
is that the Z was built for performance. If your desire is to race it, it
might be easier (more possible) to run stock gear. I
know the Zombie used to race in a Stock NEDRA class but the Ford 9" rear end is
definitely not stock to a Dautsun 1200 :-O I do
not know how stout the rear end is on a 240Z or where you could get performance
parts for it. (Pinto does run a Ford 8" rear,
stock) If racing it or keeping it stock is not a requirment for you it would
really come down to how much you perfer the looks and
ease of getting in and out.
AS=Autosport, CD=Car and Driver, HR=Hot Rod, MT=Motor Trend, RT=Road & Track,
RTM=Road Test Magazine,SCG=Sports Car Graphic, and
SCI=Sports Car Illustrated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0-60 1/4 mile Lat Braking Top Peak Peak Curb Source
Datsun 240Z (sec.) (sc-mph) g (sp-ft) Spd HP/RPM TQ/RPM Wght (date)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
70 Z 8.2 15.5 87 --- 60 151 109 151/5600 146/4400 ---- SCG 3/70
70 Z 8.7 17.1 85 .73 80 287 122 150/6000 148/4400 2355 RT 4/70
70 Z 7.8 16.1 87 .78 80 259 109 151/5600 146/4400 2330 CD 6/70
71 Z 5-spd 8.0 15.8 -- --- -- --- 125 151/5600 146/4400 ---- AC 5/71
71 Z (AT) 10.4 17.6 82 .72 80 287 120 150/6000 148/4400 2450 RT 8/71
71 Z (AT) 11.0 ---- -- --- -- --- --- 151/5600 146/4400 ---- RTM 10/71
70 Z Omega --- 15.1 91 .96 -- --- --- ---/---- ---/---- ---- CD 3/72
70 BRE Racer 4.9 13.1 108 --- -- --- --- ---/---- ---/---- ---- CD 4/72
70 Crown T 7.0 ---- -- --- -- --- --- ---/---- ---/---- ---- CD 4/72
73 Z 10.1 17.7 82 .73 80 308 115 129/6000 127/4400 2450 RT 73
60 169
7X Sharp 7.0 15.8 103 1.11 60 106 --- 258/8250 184/6500 2200 RT 11/75
80 197
71 Z L28 6.6 14.9 91 .89 70 185 130 ---/---- ---/---- ---- CD 11/86
7? Z mods? --- 15.5 95 --- -- --- --- ---/---- ---/---- ---- M DeAngelis
Notes:
1. All HP figures SAE Gross, except RT 1973 Sport & GT Cars.
2. The "Omega" Z-car was a CD project car. Upgrades included McPherson
struts, stiffer shocks, higher rate springs, front and rear sway bars,
550/830-14 race tires, headers, dual mufflers, and megaphone exhaust.
3. The car in CD 11/86 features an L28, Mikunis, exhaust, 5-spd, 3.90 rear
end, and custom suspension.
4. Modifications to Mike DeAngelis's car include???
5. All cars 4-speed, except as noted (UK model equipped w/ 5-spd).
6. Sharp car was a race car campaigned by Bob Sharp.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of KARSTEN GOPINATH
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 9:50 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: datsun 1200
>
>
> I am debating between a 240z and a Datsun 1200 both same conditon and
> same price. Which would be easier to convert? I know that White Zombie
> is a Datsun 1200. Is that a pretty light chassis to start with? Any
> pitfalls with the 1200 or the 240z I should know about. Thanks.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:50 PM 10/03/07 -0800, Karsten wrote:
I am debating between a 240z and a Datsun 1200 both same conditon and same
price. Which would be easier to convert? I know that White Zombie is a
Datsun 1200. Is that a pretty light chassis to start with? Any pitfalls
with the 1200 or the 240z I should know about. Thanks.
G'day Karsten, and All
How deep are your pockets? what is your range/usage criteria? 240Z is a
pretty heavy vehicle, so to achieve the same performance/range criteria as
the 1200 requires bigger motor, batteries, controller, etc. If you need to
carry more than two people the Z-car may run out of carrying capacity
before the 1200, unless your range needs are short or your battery budget
is large (LiPo etc).
If you have shallow pockets (like most it seems) then the 1200 is a more
economical conversion, if you like the vehicle. Various build issues are
well documented with the 1200 via John Waylands' White Zombie/Blue Meanie
web site, so you can take your pick of battery installation methods.
I don't know of any 240Z's converted, but there are various similar Nissans
that would have similar issues as the 240Z, so look at those and see where
the similarities lie, and decide what you want to do.
I'd go the 1200 from the short-list of two given. Big enough to fit stuff,
light, lots of "go-fast" aftermarket bits for bigger brakes, etc.
Have fun.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:46 PM 10/03/07 -0800, Lee Hart wrote:
From: Bruce
> Could you use a latching relay to avoid that tiny current
> draw while the car is on?
I guess you could... but I'd rather not have a relay that might latch on
all the time, even when you don't want it to be on. I'd rather have it so
cutting power turns everything off.
If you want to use a relay to switch the precharge, and not have it draw
current all the time, then power this relay through a big enough
electrolytic capacitor, so it pulls in for a few seconds when the key is
turned on, and then drops out. The controller should have precharged by
then; if not, something is wrong!
G'day Lee, and All
As usual, a practical and creative solution from Lee.
However, many conversions will have (or should have) an "ignition" relay
that controls B- contactor, DC/DC converter contactor, etc, so it would be
possible to just use an extra pole on that relay to close the precharge
resistor contact.
You still need a relay from the 'start' signal that self latches for
traction main contactor (unless you have a Zilla).
Ideally use a detector for voltage across the pre-charge resistor to close
the main contactor, and in the case of Curtii make the KSI connection.
I've been thinking how to do this, and I think that the way to do it
isolated is to use an optocoupler on the HV side, with a small resistor in
series with it and a zener diode across the resistor/opto combination, then
a suitable resistor in series with the circuit. On the other side of the
opto is a piece of circuitry that includes a startup (RC) inhibit, and once
the opto output goes off, turns on its' output relay.
Yet another 'gadget' that I should make to be available...
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The idea came from
"How to Convert to an Electric Car" by Ted Lucas, 1980 edition. But the book
gives little to no detail except that it was done in the past. The book is
also out of print, so good luck finding a copy.
One friend of mine (locat to Atlanta) is actually doing this in his EV, but I
haven't seen it in person to get details.
Another friend local to Atlanta used 2 x 10 F cells across each AGM and
switched them on only under light load and pulled 30 A. It worked well for him.
Charging is an issue. If 84 cells, use 14 7.2 V high output RC chargers (per
string). This is a lot of wiring, and it needs to be off board because it is a
lot of weight.
On of my original concepts was to string the cells in series (not parallel).
Maybe 40 - 80 cells in a string to get 48 - 96 V. Then, run this though a high
power buck converter / regulated power supply that can put out 50 - 80 Amps
with high current dropout and low voltage (input) cutoff. It's a DC power high
current battery charger with 12.8 V constant voltage output. Could work I
think, but a lot of work and expensive to implement. Put one of those on each
battery. Charge the series strings of NiMH. No parallel NiMH cells at all in
the system..
Further back than this, the idea came from the fact that you get more energy
out of a batt when you discharge at low rates, so I took 2 batts out of a 120 V
string, taking it down to 96 V. Then, use them at a much slower discharge rate
to charge the 96 V pack (inverter / charger combo). By doing this, I increased
the amount of energy storage I could get out of those 2 batts. But, there are
a lot of losses in the system. For only 2 batts out of 10, with 10% loss, the
gain is negligable. Anyway, I may still do that, but this NIMH idea where you
keep the NiMH strings to a 1-2 C discharge to maximize energy usage looks good
for now.
Charging is really the only issue.
Steve
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day Jim, and All
Mini-me's been at it again. (Suck-huff, suck-huff... Luke, um, Jim... I am
not your father...) Sorry, wrong movie, and even that is a "Dark Side"
metaphor, I can't think of an "Evil Twin" movie...
Background: My ancient ex-forklift motor that I had been prepping to go
into my Daihatsu mini truck I recalled the local motor shop telling me
(several years ago when I first got it) that when they dried it out they
were worried that they forgot the body tube in the dryout oven overnight
and "may have" damaged the fields.
Well, a few months back now I got brave (since Jim had supplied me with
some Fusa Fab) and decided to re-tape them - and found the insulation
between the windings was toast - the winding shop had put plenty of lacquer
on the outside but the inside of the fields was all flaky insulation.
So I sent the fields to another shop that have been doing a better job for
me, and after a few weeks they said they couldn't get any wire for me - but
in the mean time they had put the fields into their burn-out oven so they
could be sure of the size of the wire.
So now the insulation was no longer flaky, it was carbon dust! Nothing I
could do with the old fields now.
Jim was unable to find fields from something else that would fit the pole
shoes, so I have a choice - try and do something with the motor I have
already spent a lot of time on doing prepping and gearbox adaption, or
start again with a different motor. And if I discuss this with more than
one person, as happened on Friday when I mentioned it to a couple of
people, and one said "rewind fields" at the same time the other said
"another motor". It could be a toss-up.
So I looked at what resources I had to hand. Some largish inductors - with
enough wire to do the job. Not 5/8" wide, but rectangular. Maybe, OK, how big?
Jim has already told me that a normal ADC 9" has 14 turns of field wire
that is 0.099" x 0.620", for an area of about 0.061"sq.
My wire is about 0.157" x 0.256" so about 0.40"sq, about 2/3 the cross
sectional area of an ADC 9" wire. So over the last two days I had a 'hack'
at one of the inductors, and have wound a field that is three turns wide
and four layers deep. I will need to make a former if I try and go more
layers than that, to follow the curve of the body tube. The wire is so
stiff and hard that I was able to pull it off the inductor, straighten it
about 18" and make haf a turn, straighten the next bit and go again.
Holding it in the vice to hold the straight bits straight when bending the
ends worked a treat. It was a battle for the first layer, but after that it
went smoothly. Used a lot of cable ties as I went, though, 3 per lap to
hold it together as I went. I'll see if I can find something better before
I start into the next lot.
So I have a field that is 2/3 of the cross-section of an ADC, and has 12
turns instead of 14. Amperage levels will be modest, as the gearbox used to
hang off the back of a 27hp 2-cyl ICE, so I will need to keep the amps way
down so as to not destroy the gearbox at first outing! So it looks as
though I will succesfully be able to wind a new set of fields, I was
planning on series/parallel the field connections anyway, so the lack of
turns should be no problem.
So that is the latest. I won't be able to finish the fields until after I
get my "care package" from Jim, as I need more Fusa-fab to wind over them,
but it looks like the rewind/replace coin toss has landed on 'rewind'.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Regarding " While I was toiling away, I bet you were at home with your mama
eating warm fresh baked cookies and all":
Careful, now -- I've found that a nice cold glass of milk and a dozen or so
warm, home-made cookies can be a mind altering experience. Fresh peach pie
works as well. And I have the "pie-belly" to prove it!
- F.T.
> [Original Message]
> From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 3/10/2007 1:02:15 PM
> Subject: Re: A run in with Wayland
>
> Hello to All,
>
> I have to agree, this isn't very on-topic, but I just can't let this
> Redmond renegade get away with telling such a distorted, one-sided tale.
>
> Jim Husted wrote:
>
> >Anyway getting on to Johnny boy, he and I try and at
> >least to hookup and have a little BS session when
> >we're on each others side of the mountain. He gets all
> >hurt if I don't EVen though he'll call and say "hey
> >I'm blowing by your shop, wave", lmao!
> >
> >
>
> For those unfamiliar with Oregon, 'the mountain' is Mt. Hood, our
> ski-friendly beautiful 11,000 ft. mountain that is part of the Cascade
> Mountain Range. It sits right between the Portland metro area located in
> north-western Oregon where it is lush, green, wet, and surrounded by BIG
> rivers, and Oregon's high desert central region, where it is arid,
> sunny, rugged, and where the towns of Redmond and Bend are located. I
> travel up and over the often snow-covered mountain in my work service
> truck on my way to and from Bend where I have nine accounts to do
> forklift service at. As such, I pass right through Redmond. In addition
> to the work I do at my accounts, I also serve as a free freight service
> for customers (and EV friends) as I carry heavy electric motors to and
> from Jim's Hi-Torque Electric shop.
>
> >I knew he'd be rubbing the whole car show in my face...
> >
> >
>
> Well this part is true....what a little mama's boy!
>
> >I let him kick me in
> >the butt for not going to the show. I told him I
> >know, I'm 45 and can't tell mom no
>
>
>
> (said with a whimpering 5 year old's voice) "I couldn't make the show,
> because I had to help my mama."
>
> >Boyds coffee. I love coffee, and I was thinking that
> >I'd made a wise choice 8^) Now this place was like
> >willie wanka in the coffee factory, hehehe. Get a
> >caffine buzz just walking into a place like this, God
> >it smelt goood!
> >
> >
>
> I know Jim's love of coffee, and just knew he'd be in hog heaven at this
> place...yes, it smells wonderful!
>
> >John was going on and on
> >about what they had to pull it with and whether he
> >needed to get another mechanic there to help lift it
> >out. Heck it's only
> >about 120 lbs and it sits comm end up. He looks at me
> >all smart and says yeah go ahead! I grabbed the motor and heaved it
> >sideways to break the silicon seal loose from a 13" DE
> >plate and lifted it out, about that quick, LMAO!
> >
> >
>
> What Jim is not aware of, is that I had set him up for the motor pull.
> While Jim was browsing around the mechanic's shop, I told my customer
> how my scrawny friend who looked like the kid that got sand kicked in
> his face through grade school, was much stronger than he looked, and how
> I'd seen him hoist 250 lb. motors like a 10 lb. bag of coffee. He had
> suggested that we get another forklift and strap to get the drive motor
> out of its cramped motor bay area, but I simply told him, "No, Jim will
> have it out in seconds."
>
> >Anyway I guess the point to this story is I've never
> >seen John actually work, he just runs around coffee
> >places and drinks coffee and stuffs his donut hole,
> >it's just not fair.
> >
> >
>
> Jim, Jim, Jim.....where were you the day and night before? It's not all
> Miss Oregon, biker chicks, and free doughnuts. Thursday, I had seven
> electric pallet jacks and two electric reach trucks as my day's
> break-downs at one place. By the end of the day, I was solo, up in the
> air, covered in hydraulic fluid and grease, and was installing a 6 ft.
> long 85 lb. ram and 50 lb. lift chains back into a Raymond Reach truck
> until 7:30 pm. That made it a 12 hour day for me, and I hadn't eaten
> anything since 10 am. While I was toiling away, I bet you were at home
> with your mama eating warm fresh baked cookies and all.
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Morning Evil, all
Ahh we meet again my little down under motor hacker
8^P You know I'm starting to think you're a sadist,
lmao! I mean for God's sake man, you know how I am
and you keep giving me ammo! You know I thought you
were being aweful quite down there 8^o
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> G'day Jim, and All
>
> Mini-me's been at it again. (Suck-huff, suck-huff...
> Luke, um, Jim... I am
> not your father...) Sorry, wrong movie, and even
> that is a "Dark Side"
> metaphor, I can't think of an "Evil Twin" movie...
You know I can't either so I went to wikipedia and
they have a great write up, I have no idea where they
got that pic of James attempting to extort more
goodies from me but it can be found on the top right
(that might be bottom left for you James) corner of
the page here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_twin
Actually their deffinition confirms to me my useage of
this term when addressing James!
> Background: My ancient ex-forklift motor that I had
> been prepping to go
> into my Daihatsu mini truck I recalled the local
> motor shop telling me
> (several years ago when I first got it) that when
> they dried it out they
> were worried that they forgot the body tube in the
> dryout oven overnight
> and "may have" damaged the fields.
I got a fun story for you here. When I just started
doing motors the boss (I was the pee-on then) had
quoted out a motor telling the guy the fields were bad
(actually it was just the outer wrap) The customer
was of the butthead type and my boss had quoted a
little higher than normal.
Long story short is the job cancelled. Feeling like
he'd been caught in a lie he ordered me to destroy the
coil insulation. Hey I was 19 and the boss just
ordered me to destroy something (how often does that
happen). Well I reasoned out that I'd find good in
this as a test to see what class H insulation could
take (or maybe I have a little evil in me also, hehe)
Back then we used a 111 trichlor hot tank (yeah I know
I'm gonna die, LOL)(I used to have to climb in and
clean out the sludge, I said I know, LMAO!!) anyway
that sucker would peel paint off a housing in 5 secs
flat!
I put the coils in and cooked them puppies for hours.
When I lifted them from the fog of death, they arose
squeeky clean, and better than they had looked!
Undaunted I cranked the bake oven and tossed in my
project. That oven didn't go above 375F and in the
end I failed at my assingment after two days 8^(
I probably had a gleam in my eye when I told him I
could try a torch! At this point it was kinda getting
personal for me, LMAO!
I do remember telling him that a coil could be bad but
still be good, meaning there are two insulation
layers, one for the turns and one for the steel.
Bottom line is the guy got back one of the cleanest
coils I'd EVer "worked on", hehe. Anyway it takes a
lot to cook a set of coils.
Possible real cause of coils being burnt are as
follows:
They threw them in a burnout oven, not a bake oven
They just left them outside in the sun down there.
That motor is a cousin of an MKZ.
That shops boss thinks James is a butthead.
They burnt due to low batteries and plain old abuse.
Anyway aren't you guys glad I got all of "my" evil out
when I was young, LMAO!
> Well, a few months back now I got brave (since Jim
> had supplied me with
> some Fusa Fab) and decided to re-tape them - and
> found the insulation
> between the windings was toast - the winding shop
> had put plenty of lacquer
> on the outside but the inside of the fields was all
> flaky insulation.
Yep, two types of insulation! The caution here for
folks is sometimes the outer insulation still appears
to be in good shape but the inner insulation is ash
inside. If the fiberglass outer wrap is really dark
(or red) buyer beware! On the other side of the coin
sometimes the outer insulation gets fried but the
actual coils remain uncooked, as per my story above.
> So I sent the fields to another shop that have been
> doing a better job for
> me, and after a few weeks they said they couldn't
> get any wire for me - but
> in the mean time they had put the fields into their
> burn-out oven so they
> could be sure of the size of the wire.
Okay this proves to me that you are in fact a sadist!
Couldn't they have just scratched off the insulation
to have got that info? Maybe my first boss shoulda
sent those coils down to you boys for a little BBQ
party, LMAO!
This also suggests maybe the first shop did use a
burnout oven on them.
> So now the insulation was no longer flaky, it was
> carbon dust! Nothing I
> could do with the old fields now.
Another fine example of where a quick write to me
could have saved a little pain, BTW how much they
charge you to cook up your coils ROFLMAO!
> Jim was unable to find fields from something else
> that would fit the pole
> shoes, <snip>
You know I'm kinda glad, now that I see how you treat
them down there~!!
> so I have a choice - try and do something
> with the motor I have
> already spent a lot of time on doing prepping and
> gearbox adaption, or
> start again with a different motor. And if I discuss
> this with more than
> one person, as happened on Friday when I mentioned
> it to a couple of
> people, and one said "rewind fields" at the same
> time the other said
> "another motor". It could be a toss-up.
>
> So I looked at what resources I had to hand. Some
> largish inductors - with
> enough wire to do the job. Not 5/8" wide, but
> rectangular. Maybe, OK, how big?
>
> Jim has already told me that a normal ADC 9" has 14
> turns of field wire
> that is 0.099" x 0.620", for an area of about
> 0.061"sq.
You know I got that straight off Lawless' new fields
I'm working on, but I'm thinking you probably screwed
up taking the info so I'll recheck this, LMAO!
Then again I didn't oven them out so I might be a tad
off on the measurement also.
> My wire is about 0.157" x 0.256" so about 0.40"sq,
> about 2/3 the cross
> sectional area of an ADC 9" wire. So over the last
> two days I had a 'hack'
> at one of the inductors, and have wound a field that
> is three turns wide
> and four layers deep. I will need to make a former
> if I try and go more
> layers than that, to follow the curve of the body
> tube. The wire is so
> stiff and hard that I was able to pull it off the
> inductor, straighten it
> about 18" and make haf a turn, straighten the next
> bit and go again.
> Holding it in the vice to hold the straight bits
> straight when bending the
> ends worked a treat. It was a battle for the first
> layer, but after that it
> went smoothly. Used a lot of cable ties as I went,
> though, 3 per lap to
> hold it together as I went. I'll see if I can find
> something better before
> I start into the next lot.
You know what? screw the pics I want video!!! LMAO!
> So I have a field that is 2/3 of the cross-section
> of an ADC, and has 12
> turns instead of 14. Amperage levels will be modest,
> as the gearbox used to
> hang off the back of a 27hp 2-cyl ICE, so I will
> need to keep the amps way
> down so as to not destroy the gearbox at first
> outing! So it looks as
> though I will succesfully be able to wind a new set
> of fields, I was
> planning on series/parallel the field connections
> anyway, so the lack of
> turns should be no problem.
Being that this motor may in fact have an MKZ field
coil issue using a little less coil might be a good
thing here.
> So that is the latest. I won't be able to finish the
> fields until after I
> get my "care package" from Jim, as I need more
> Fusa-fab to wind over them,
> but it looks like the rewind/replace coin toss has
> landed on 'rewind'.
Man I can't catch a break here, see how he puts it off
like it's all my fault and he can't do anything more
until I get off my lazy butt. I'm surprised that he
didn't type "get" my care package, hehehe.
You know I just contacted Lee yesterday asking if he
knew where I could unload those plugs you sent me for
that last care pack I sent you. Luckily I won't have
to pay him much to take them 8^P
You know if I didn't know better I'd almost believe
that Australia was founded by a bunch of thieves and
criminals! 8^P
Another life ago story is I used to do these 8 pole
Porter Peerless motors. They had a coil wire of
something like 1" X .010" and the wire was just not
available without buying a spool costing thousands of
bucks. I eneded up subbing them out to a place who
specialized in that motor. They unwound each coil and
rewound it up with a sandwiched layer of Nomex and
they came out very nice.
Anyway when you get a minute to post some pics I'd
like to have a look and make sure you aren't going to
have to backtrack any more than you have already.
Matter of fact I ain't sending you the FusaFab till
you do, so I can make sure you aren't gonna just waste
it, LMAO!
Call it a feeling but I don't think we're done with
this thread quite yet 8^o
Had fun keep me posted!
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
> On 10 Mar 2007 at 10:44, Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > So we know when the brakes are being called up. I would be fun to read
the data
> > from that crash and see Who got to what pedal....and if it was the right
one.
Hi EVerybody;
Around here this is all in todaze news, with other gas rigs. Almost
EVery day, SOMEBODY, usually 80-90 years old has an issue as to Which pedal
does WHAT? And they crash through stores, houses. Pix is on the front page
of the local paper. Thank goodness they usually don't drive Hummers and
F-250's!
Just happened here, to be a hybrid, rather than an old Buick or Olds.
Point made here by David; we hafta make sure our EV's are almost foolproof.
Although if you stomp on the Go pedal, thinking it's the brake......car's
gunna GO! Hell! You built it so it would. So be careful! EVen the best car
designers can't fix that! Our Led Sleds would make great battering rams!
My two pedals worth.
Bob
> This is a good point. The Prius "black box" has crash data, including
info
> on what pedals were down when the airbags deployed. Since there's legal
> action in this case, you can just about bet that the insurance company
> involved will have that computer's brain picked.
>
> Regrettably, that won't be for some time, and by then the story will be
> cold. You probably won't read in the newspaper or hear on television that
> the driver had the accelerator flat to the floor when he thought he was on
> the brakes. (If indeed that's what happened, I'm not saying that it is.)
>
> As EV proponents these sorts of news items reflect on us and our vehicles
to
> some degree. We need to be aware of them and become informed so we can
> counter anti-EV arguments.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/716 - Release Date: 3/9/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I believe Wayland had difficulty
> getting the two 8's in before he (I mean Jim Husted
> the worker man ;-) siamese'd them together.
Thanks Mike!
It's nice to know that someone out there hears me!
Not really sure how this gives any real input to this
thread but I got a hold of a '72 1200 fastback. I've
gutted out most of the ICE stuff from it but it's
gonna be a while before I'll be able to do what I'd
like with it. I've been really torn between just
getting it going or just wait till I can work it up to
the racer I'd like to make it.
Being I'd like to skip the first 15 pages of history
that WZ went through, LMAO! It might be wiser to just
wait and save the money up to skip to the Fast version
I'd like to have 8^) Then again I look at Blue Meanie
and think "damn I got to get this baby up and
running"! As owner of Hi-Torque though I can't help
but fear the crap I'll get from the racing guys out
there if my EV is a gutless wonder, LMAO!
Anyway not to sound like a Wayland groupie here but I
really like the body style of the 1200's and as John
has shown, it can be converted to either "slick" or
"sleek" as per ones personal tastes.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Datsun 1200 wannabie
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVrerybody;
A little Sunday morning quarterbacking here. The usual suspects and a few
newbees showed up at my place in the tropical, it was up to 40 degreez,
weather. I tried to provide the EV grins with 2 thirds of the "Fleet"
mobile? A bit. Can yo think jumper cables and 30 volts of batteries?Enough
to move cars lethargicly up to 30 mph on the level!This is a stage my EV's
go through to try out the motor, /tranny lashup and the car's running gear.
Brakes steering and stuff, does it clutch and shift right. The gig; Make
SURE it is in neutral!!! Clip jumper cable to cable, motor winds up and ya
hop in, turning on the key, so you can stear! This is important!Do clutch
and gears for forward or reverse motion, which ever you need? Next month?
Controllers and a full battery pack! The 87 Sentra has been 30 volting it
for awile, but the 88 Jetta made it's maiden voiage this weakend. NOW to
stuff the OTHER 15 badd-eries aboard for the desired 120 volt system, 2 more
in front and 13 in back, is the current furniture plan.NICE big trunk, so NO
more in the passenger compartment!The full compliment of batteries is aboard
the Sentra, 90 volts.But a little reluctent to jumper cable all THAT! It
rides good, the vacuum brake pump works good, and when I get the @#$%^
headlights to work, among other things.What IS it with relatively newer
cars? Headlights aren't just simply wired to the headlight switch, Oh,
NO..... they go through OTHER stuff, to get threir power. EVerything ELSE
works, turn signals brake lights tail an' side lights dome light.Radio
even!Arrrgh!
So we had some 30 volt EV grins, for starters.We try to have SOMETHIN'
running as an EV or two.Maybe 3 or 4 this summer.Yeah, you Left coast guyz
can whistle up a fleet at EVery meeting, but one or two, pitiful as it
sounds, is an EVent in CT!
Mt two jumper cables worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Other things to think about: If you do lots of highway cruising, the better
aero of the 240Z might give it better range than the 1200, despite more weight,
vice versa for city driving.
I would guess the 240Z has more parts and go-fast parts available, as it is
more of an enthusiast car.
Alledgedly there are lots of rust problems, look carefully at any donor.
----- Original Message ----
From: KARSTEN GOPINATH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 11:50:10 PM
Subject: Re: datsun 1200
I am debating between a 240z and a Datsun 1200 both same conditon and
same price. Which would be easier to convert? I know that White Zombie
is a Datsun 1200. Is that a pretty light chassis to start with? Any
pitfalls with the 1200 or the 240z I should know about. Thanks.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Not really sure how this gives any real input to this
thread but I got a hold of a '72 1200 fastback. I've
gutted out most of the ICE stuff from it but it's
gonna be a while before I'll be able to do what I'd
like with it. I've been really torn between just
getting it going or just wait till I can work it up to
the racer I'd like to make it.
That's easy... just get it going. Have a little fun with it. You can't be
considered a real EV hack until you have driven with a 12 volt battery and a
set of jumper cables in your lap :-)
There is always time to get the expensive parts and make it look pretty
later, in the meantime you still need to have some fun.
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month.
Intro*Terms
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It feels good after 8 months of preps,my mods,subed machine work,ect.to be
finished with 3 more ge type motors.The 2 11s will be in a dual zilla street
racer and the 13in.will be reinstalled into my 87s10 street/show/work/strip
truck.I have put many of my go fast tricks into all three and the 11s really do
belong in a show truck.Just 1 of the beauty tricks-ground cases that have been
industral hard chromed and polished out to a hydralic ram type finish. All 3
will be at my shop for a few more days if anyone in Phoenix would like to see
them.I will try to get pictures put up on my site for all to view.
The s10s body panels were painted friday and the body will be
reassembled this week.The frame and cage were painted the week before.All new
glass,door handles.interior,crome,should be on by the following week.Then back
up to
prescott where the motor/driveshaft currie 9in.air locker rear,front air
susp.rear ladder bar susp.will be reinstalled.By the 3rd week in april it will
be
in my shop having the pre construcked dash, control section,and 26ah batteries
installed.Tri city motor news in prescot will be documenting the
reconstruction so we will have detailed photos on my site.Early may it will be
on the
trailer to the ADOT to be registered,then of to the track I meant street.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My body shop just received a Prius to be work on. The owner and manual said
it is recommended to disconnected the battery by removing a cable off the
battery pack before you work on this car, WHY? Did they not design the
vehicle so the battery will disconnect back inside a double insulated
battery container when you turn off the ignition switch or have other means
of disconnecting?
The work is not being done on the battery container but on a front fender.
This body shop refurnish all the sheet metal and frame where all the old
paint was remove and sandblasted my EV while the batteries were still
connected together, but was disconnected by the safety contactors, fuses
and/or circuit breaker.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 3:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
>
>
> > On 10 Mar 2007 at 10:44, Rich Rudman wrote:
> >
> > > So we know when the brakes are being called up. I would be fun to read
> the data
> > > from that crash and see Who got to what pedal....and if it was the
> > > right
> one.
>
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> Around here this is all in todaze news, with other gas rigs. Almost
> EVery day, SOMEBODY, usually 80-90 years old has an issue as to Which
> pedal
> does WHAT? And they crash through stores, houses. Pix is on the front page
> of the local paper. Thank goodness they usually don't drive Hummers and
> F-250's!
>
> Just happened here, to be a hybrid, rather than an old Buick or Olds.
> Point made here by David; we hafta make sure our EV's are almost
> foolproof.
> Although if you stomp on the Go pedal, thinking it's the brake......car's
> gunna GO! Hell! You built it so it would. So be careful! EVen the best car
> designers can't fix that! Our Led Sleds would make great battering rams!
>
> My two pedals worth.
>
> Bob
>
> > This is a good point. The Prius "black box" has crash data, including
> info
> > on what pedals were down when the airbags deployed. Since there's legal
> > action in this case, you can just about bet that the insurance company
> > involved will have that computer's brain picked.
> >
> > Regrettably, that won't be for some time, and by then the story will be
> > cold. You probably won't read in the newspaper or hear on television
> > that
> > the driver had the accelerator flat to the floor when he thought he was
> > on
> > the brakes. (If indeed that's what happened, I'm not saying that it is.)
> >
> > As EV proponents these sorts of news items reflect on us and our
> > vehicles
> to
> > some degree. We need to be aware of them and become informed so we can
> > counter anti-EV arguments.
> >
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> > To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> > the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/716 - Release Date: 3/9/07
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Black box.. I have heard of it.. But which one is it and how do we pry into
it and read back the data.
Anybody our there know what is needed and what the procedure is for looking
at past data point?
There are 7 CPU boxes in a Prius... we read the CAN traffic.. and not much
else.
It would be cool to have access to this data on our own street machines.
I spent a good chunk of yesterday hunting for the RPM and throttle data in a
sea of Hex data while trying to stay on the road.
We have more and more data points on the Ford Escapes... It's getting to be
pretty fun.
At least I now have a Lilliput 629 display on my Dash instead of a Ripped
out surplus Prius MFD. I can corner now without a 10 lbs display gouging my
dash and bounching around.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
> On 10 Mar 2007 at 10:44, Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > So we know when the brakes are being called up. I would be fun to read
the data
> > from that crash and see Who got to what pedal....and if it was the right
one.
>
> This is a good point. The Prius "black box" has crash data, including
info
> on what pedals were down when the airbags deployed. Since there's legal
> action in this case, you can just about bet that the insurance company
> involved will have that computer's brain picked.
>
> Regrettably, that won't be for some time, and by then the story will be
> cold. You probably won't read in the newspaper or hear on television that
> the driver had the accelerator flat to the floor when he thought he was on
> the brakes. (If indeed that's what happened, I'm not saying that it is.)
>
> As EV proponents these sorts of news items reflect on us and our vehicles
to
> some degree. We need to be aware of them and become informed so we can
> counter anti-EV arguments.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--- End Message ---
