EV Digest 6550
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: EV Towing Damage. Motor and Transmission Help
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: BugE again
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Sprint/Metro Drivetrain losses
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: ok, time for some new batteries
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: distributed charging
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: metro update
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Removing chips from a SMT board
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: distributed charging
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: adding end cap - continued
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Lee's BMS?
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: ok, time for some new batteries
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 3 Datsun 1200's. $500.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: BugE again
by "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: cheap DC-motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: cheap DC-motors
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Motor Mania Calendar (mostly OT, except for the Electric Motor part)
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Technical design/component/schematic info?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) RE: cheap DC-motors
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: ok, time for some new batteries
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Technical design/component/schematic info?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: ok, time for some new batteries
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: BugE again
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Technical design/component/schematic info?
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
I assume the S15 has a manual transmission that was still operational
(used to shift gears and change motor speed)?
What speed was the EV being towed when this happened?
With these big rig trucks it is no problem to blaze
at 80 MPH, even though the U-haul dolly officially does
not allow towing faster than 55 MPH.
(I am not accusing that it was being towed at too high
speed, I am wondering if that was contributing, as I
often see heavy loaded trucks with trailer pass me
when I am at speed limit.
My 1994 S10 has a manual transmission replacing the
automatic during the conversion to an AC drivetrain,
the shift lever was not installed and the transmission
was locked in 2nd gear.
Only way to disengage it would be to disconnect drive shaft.
Since I did not want to do that and opted for flat
towing (wanted to move it more than once and U-haul
is more expensive than a bolt-on tow bracket)
so I limited my speed to 50 MPH and never had a problem
with tranny or motor (which must have been spinning at
6500 RPM but since its redline is 9,000 I was not worried about the motor).
When I picked up my BMW (the only time I used a tow dolly) it needed to be
towed over 100 miles, so I put it on the dolly BACKWARDS and let the front
wheels follow (steering lock engaged, wheels straight). No problem.
Hope this helps someone else,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Hastings
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 12:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: EV Towing Damage. Motor and Transmission Help
Note: Nothing and no one was hurt except for my former
S-15 EV.
I sold my 86 Solar Car Corp S15 pickup yesterday. I have been getting alot
of use out of the pickup bed in the last few weeks with landscaping so I
really regreted selling it. My new office was just too far away to use it so
I was hoping to get it to a good home where it could get used everyday.
Kenneth showed up alot earlier then expected after I had just driven it
for a good 12-15 miles finding the self serve carwash was closed. He test
drove it about 4-5 miles and went to get a uhaul dolly. It was tow dollied
from north texas in nuetral but about an hour out of the final destination
something went really wrong. He was towing with a big dodge ram and he felt
a big lurch and then all was smooth again as the motor and tranmission self
destructed.
I don't have any images of it yet and from what he told me the bolts
holding the shifter were gone which let the shifter just drop into gear. I
hate to see an working EV that could have lasted me possibly years to come
get sidelined. To fix it with new parts would cost nearly the price he paid
for the vehicle which makes it even worse.
I think I know where to send him for the motor if it is salvagable at all
but any suggestions are welcome.
Besides just random pick and pulls does anyone have an idea of somewhere in
or near colorado to get a transmission on the cheap for an S-15 pickup? or
Anyone happen to have one just sitting around.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> What has me sold on the idea is the long term viability of one of these.
> Consider the maintenance costs for batteries, tires, brakes, etc. It does
> not add up to much after the initial purchase cost.
>
> Unfortunately I don't have the means to build my MR2 EV and build a BugE,
> so
> now I'm giving strong consideration to dumping the MR2. I got it for $300
> and could probably easily recoup that by parting it out anyway with no EV
> components purchased for it yet. (It's certainly not worth restoring for
> ICE use.)
>
> - Kip
That is very true, but these are 2 different breeds of vehicle... a car
and a "moped" sized MC. (Don't get me wrong, I'm looking at the BugE
also.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
The larger power requirements to spin the tranny in neutral sounds
a bit suspicious to me...
What I've been told is that two features of modern transmissions,
differentials, and drive trains contribute to their higher losses.
First, the synchronizers add drag between the gears (so a
non-synchromesh transmission has lower losses). In a differential, the
presence of positraction adds the same sort of drag (when the two wheels
aren't rotating exactly the same speed).
Second, the "lubricated for life" bearings have tighter tolerances and
seals that add significant amounts of drag. Older bearings that required
occasional greasing had less aggressive seals, and so could be adjusted
for less drag.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would be curious... did you push your pack too low on voltage? (The
voltages sound like when I reversed the cells on my one batt.)
If there is more resistance in the cables to the front, perhaps that kept
them from being drawn down as low as the rear pack. I was originally told
to keep my pack above 11 V per 12V batt (max load).
> I have apparently murdered my first pack but I don't understand how. I
> am starting now to think I overheated them?
> I want to replace them but I need to know what to avoid next time.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought one from here a year or so ago and think it is one of the best bang
for your small buck chargers there is.
http://www.batteryservice.com/products_final.aspx?ModelNumber=SE-1072
Although the model # is the same as you have in your post the picture &
description looks a bit different between the two sites, and mine is $50
cheaper. These chargers are isolated, so you should have no problem using
two of them together. They are not smart, just a multitap transformer a
multiposition switch a rectifier and a fuse. I also wouldn't count on them
to charge at a 10 amp rate on a 72 volt pack. They may start at 10 amps or
above, but the current will taper the pack voltage rises. I generally use
mine on a lower voltage pack so I can keep the amps up by switching to a
higher voltage level.
Mine has a high/low switch and settings for 12,24,36,48,54,72 volts.
damon
From: mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: distributed charging
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:39:30 -0700 (PDT)
can two of these be used in series for 144 volts 10a?
or parallel for 72v 20a?
are there customer reviews out there?
regarding the SE-1072
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_340592_340592&issearch=167974
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
I don't see any wobble. How would I know if it is loose?
This is the popular cheap motor that evolks uses.
Look at the back end of your motor (opposite the shaft end). Pull off
the cover, and see if it actually has *two* shafts, one inside the
other. If so, there will be a snap ring at the end of the inner shaft.
Remove it, and the inner shaft slides out from the other end.
Now you can see that the motor itself has a hollow shaft, with a bearing
at each end. The inside of this shaft is splined. It only connects (via
the splines) at the *back* end of the motor. The front end of this shaft
is free to move sideways; there is no bearing!
The intention is that you mount these motor/generators directly to the
crankshaft or turbine shaft of an aircraft engine. The mounting might be
a bit off-center due to bolt hole tolerances, etc. So, the free-floating
shaft can flex a bit off-center, to engage the splines on the aircraft
engine -- The engine has the bearings to center the motor/generator's shaft.
You can't attach flywheel, torque converter, or even a direct-drive
coupler between these motors and a vehicle's transmission. That's
because a vehicle's transmission also has a floating shaft; it depends
on the engine's bearing to center the shaft. At best, it will vibrate.
At worst, it will shake itself to pieces.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murray wrote:
I've done dozens of chips without damage using the chipquick, yeah, you must
remove the alloy from the pins and chip, this is easy using solder wick and the
flux and I often just use regular solder to get it to flow into the wick. If
you don't remove it the alloy prevents a normal solder joint to occur.
I wouldn't remove chips any other way after using this stuff.
This sounds like the short-term way to go for me. As a bonus, I will be
putting the chip into a PLCC socket anyway, so having a bit of residual
flux would not be that much of a problem.
Thank you! Next step will be to make a few 80kw Dolphins.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok I think I understood that. So what about having an intelligent on-off switch but no charger power supply at the
battery, with a central charger?
Is this what you guys call a BMS? Maybe it would have to be a Big Switch?
-trying to understand
John
Lee Hart wrote:
...
The challenge with having one charger-per-battery is that the chargers
have to be *very* reliable. If you have 10 of them, each one has to be
10 times more reliable than one big central charger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If I don't take this to a shop, am I able to acheive this
> by clamping it down on a drill press and leaving it in
> position as I swap out bits?
Gads no. Few drill presses I can hold two thousands at the chuck, and
you need way more beef in the carriage to hold that same tolerance at
the tool face. Drills can wander well past .01".
Realistically, you need a mill and some boring bits to hold those
tolerances - some folks might even suggest a rough cut and a finish
ream. Pretty simple to have done with the right equipment, though, so
the shop time shouldn't be too spendy. I'd start with a chunk of plate,
mill the concentric features with X and Y locked out, using a short bore
to dial the center hole to a light press fit with the bearing, and a
long bearing bar to do the alignment contour.
For additional piece of mind, you could release the X and Y locks and
optionally take a really light cut across the surface of the plate to
ensure that the plate is fully perpendicular to the bores (all without
moving the plate). When complete, release the clamps and flip the work
piece and then take a light cut on the opposite side to guarantee that
everything is square. I'd face both sides if it were my shop and my
hours, but probably not if I were paying someone else.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> From: brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2007/03/12 Mon AM 11:23:06 EST
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Lee's BMS?
>
> hello everyone,
> is there an order in the process for some of Lee
> Hart's BMS boards??
I'm hoping that the group that is getting this order will or can work together
to get things going without bothering Lee to much , if at all . It is easy for
people like Lee , Rich and Ot to get way overloaded with questions and then
never get anything done .. So for there sake we need to help each other as a
group as much as possible and only bother them when we can't as a group figure
out somthing ..
if so I'd be interested! I'll need
> two relay boards (string of 10+1)and naturally the
> control board. who do I make the check out to and for
> how much?
ah and so it begines ,,, I didn't keep up with the last build ,, it went off
list but this time I'm in for the ride ,
>I may need a little help in the programming,
Me to , I've never done any
> but I've done some PIC programming before...
hope we can work together , and not wear Lee out ... we need him for other
stuff .
Lee last I heard Mr C was going to get 2 .
Steve Clunn I like the phone also so you can call me 772 971 0533
>
> Brian B.
> 81' Bradley GTII
>
> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > HI Lee I have sombody interested (as I am) in
> > putting together one
> > > of your bms's. I know you needed 10 orders to pay
> > for the boards.
> > > I could get 5 controller boards if this would help
> > make an order.
> >
> > Yes, that would certainly push us "over the hump"! I
> > still have your
> > deposit check for one, but would probably replace it
> > before actually
> > ordering (it's probably not good any more).
> >
> > The Relay boards are done and ready to order. The
> > Control board could be
> > done if I quit tweaking it (time to shoot the
> > engineer).
> >
> > So, let me know if this is a serious order for 5,
> > and I'll proceed
> > accordingly.
> > --
> > Ring the bells that still can ring
> > Forget the perfect offering
> > There is a crack in everything
> > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> > leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They haven't had any available in ages.
At 12:07 AM 3/13/2007, Bruce wrote:
I don't know if this site has been updated recently or not, but it lists
used 34AH - BB600 cells for $10 each.
http://www.sg-photo.com/nicad_batteries.htm
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I heard from my brother about these three vehicles. One fastback and two
coupes. One seems to be running. All three go for 500. My bro made a
special effort to get the info. I have no interest other than one of the
coupes if they come North. These vehicles are in San Diego County near
Ramona. John & Tony De Melo. 760-787-1482, cell 951-545-0313. Two very
successful EV's have been made from these vehicles.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/35 White Zombie a drag race record holder at
over 100mph in the standing quarter mile. It even does wheelies.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/36 Blue Meanie a beautiful, very stock
soundoff award winner. Best stereo I've ever heard in a car as well as in
most peoples homes. Both of these cars are converted to electric drive.
Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: BugE again
What has me sold on the idea is the long term viability of one of these.
Consider the maintenance costs for batteries, tires, brakes, etc. It
does
not add up to much after the initial purchase cost.
Unfortunately I don't have the means to build my MR2 EV and build a BugE,
so
now I'm giving strong consideration to dumping the MR2. I got it for
$300
and could probably easily recoup that by parting it out anyway with no EV
components purchased for it yet. (It's certainly not worth restoring for
ICE use.)
- Kip
That is very true, but these are 2 different breeds of vehicle... a car
and a "moped" sized MC. (Don't get me wrong, I'm looking at the BugE
also.)
With one key distinction: weather protection - sortof.
I've commuted on motorcycles, and currently ride my bike when it's not
miserable out, but I would ride either one all of the time if they had
reasonable weather protection. So I guess whether it's a car or a
motorcycle is less relevant to me than overall practicallity, which both in
EV form should deliver well with slightly different functionality.
I'm not really looking for any greater range than the BugE should provide,
but no doubt the extra carrying capacity and complete enclosure of a car
would be a bit more convenient.
I don't know. I'm still waffling . .
- Kip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also I would continue to run any choice by
> Jim, as he can usually give you a good idea about
> what it is you are getting, and what the cost of
> replacement parts could run you. Besides, if you
> don't ask him first and then run into even the
> tiniest little mishap, he'll give you the full
> James Massey treatment.
So now I'm a list troll or does motor Nazi have a
better feel for you?? Man back in my youger days if a
guy screwed up, I'd bring the whole crew over so we
could heckel him to death (ohh the good old days when
you could torment your workers, hehe). I found people
don't soon forget it! I'm not the pat your head and
tell you ohh what a good boy you were for trying,
LMAO! Two days later you'll be doing it again. It's
not one sided though and the laughing was never louder
than when I screwed up, but luckily I kept that to a
minumum 8^P
I guess the difference between me and all the real
list trolls is "I" care 8^o If I didn't I'd just
smile and pat your little heads and say what good boys
you were and just snicker to myself lmao!!!
Now I'm also a guy who has to have fun or I won't stay
with it, lifes just to short, and to long to not enjoy
it 8^) With that said I'm hoping you all put up with
my sick humor and abusive tendencies while I work on
"my" issues as well and try to be n, ni, Nii, Nice,
there you happy?
Besides I'm betting most would rather take "my" hard
knock and a small, little, incie tincie >< ribbing
than to take the whole lump yourselves. Of course
people like James like a few more lumps in thier tea,
than most, LMAO Okay my bad I take that back as I try
to become nicer. Bunch of motor pansies 8^o
BTW Damon, just keep talking ol buddie boy cause you
do not want a piece of me, LMAO! Course it would look
good to have a little Damon hide sitting next to my
Damon core, hehehe.
Anyway with all the complaints I've been getting I
better wrap this up before David kicks me off the list
Darn list trolls, ohh hey David 8^o
Cya
Jim Husted
Motor-Troll Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Anyway with all the complaints I've been getting I
>better wrap this up before David kicks me off the
list
>Darn list trolls, ohh hey David 8^o
Well, I'm not complaining, but I'm not going to post
any motor building tips myself :-)(especially since
I'm more of a power electronics type of guy, but I'm
learning lots of neat tricks/ideas from your posts).
Anyhow, I always get a laugh out of your posts. I
think you would be a good geek type comedian if not
such an experienced motor building guy (the Dilbert of
DC motors?).
Keep up the good work, always learning cool tips from
your posts.
Rod
P.S. I think Mike Willmon got the best of you today
with his post "Re: Motor Mania Calendar (mostly OT,
except for the Electric Motor part)", that 9" ADC
motor his wife mentioned had me laughing to myself in
the office/lab.
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Also I would continue to run any choice by
> > Jim, as he can usually give you a good idea about
> > what it is you are getting, and what the cost of
> > replacement parts could run you. Besides, if you
> > don't ask him first and then run into even the
> > tiniest little mishap, he'll give you the full
> > James Massey treatment.
>
> So now I'm a list troll or does motor Nazi have a
> better feel for you?? Man back in my youger days if
> a
> guy screwed up, I'd bring the whole crew over so we
> could heckel him to death (ohh the good old days
> when
> you could torment your workers, hehe). I found
> people
> don't soon forget it! I'm not the pat your head and
> tell you ohh what a good boy you were for trying,
> LMAO! Two days later you'll be doing it again.
> It's
> not one sided though and the laughing was never
> louder
> than when I screwed up, but luckily I kept that to a
> minumum 8^P
>
> I guess the difference between me and all the real
> list trolls is "I" care 8^o If I didn't I'd just
> smile and pat your little heads and say what good
> boys
> you were and just snicker to myself lmao!!!
>
> Now I'm also a guy who has to have fun or I won't
> stay
> with it, lifes just to short, and to long to not
> enjoy
> it 8^) With that said I'm hoping you all put up
> with
> my sick humor and abusive tendencies while I work on
> "my" issues as well and try to be n, ni, Nii, Nice,
> there you happy?
>
> Besides I'm betting most would rather take "my" hard
> knock and a small, little, incie tincie >< ribbing
> than to take the whole lump yourselves. Of course
> people like James like a few more lumps in thier
> tea,
> than most, LMAO Okay my bad I take that back as I
> try
> to become nicer. Bunch of motor pansies 8^o
>
> BTW Damon, just keep talking ol buddie boy cause you
> do not want a piece of me, LMAO! Course it would
> look
> good to have a little Damon hide sitting next to my
> Damon core, hehehe.
>
> Anyway with all the complaints I've been getting I
> better wrap this up before David kicks me off the
> list
> Darn list trolls, ohh hey David 8^o
>
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Motor-Troll Electric
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000
> hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your
> fit.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mike
First off I have to make this quick before the wife
gets home cause she says I can't talk to you no more
cause you called her ugly! LMAO!
Second, I've got to learn to not be drinking anything
when I read your posts, ROF.
Third, I knew what you meant, but there wasn't a motor
in that calender, not that I saw anyway 8^o
oops there's David gotta run, hey I didn't start this
thread, get Mike, I thought I sent this private, LMAO
Had fun
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay, I've been on this list a couple weeks and have asked a couple stupid
questions. Now for the taco grande...
It would seem most of you have a lot of experience under your collective
belts, while I'm coming at this with no EV-specific experience and no EE
degree. Where can I find general information on the components which make
up an EV, how they are wired together, examples of various parts (motors,
batteries, controllers, what controllers go with what motors, why is AC
Propulsion's stuff so expensive, etc)? I can infer a bit from places like
Electro Automotive or evparts.com, but not a lot. EVWorld seems to be
geared toward a much higher level presentation (lots of manufacturers'
links, promotion/publicity and nontechnical overview articles, not a lot of
actual technical content). Ditto for the Plug In America.
I just stumbled on this wiki book:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion
but have yet to look it over (that's my next task). Asking Google for
similar pages just leads me to mediawiki.org and similar sites. I haven't
stumbled on the proper incanation to feed Google that will get me suitable
content from this list's archives either, though I'm sure there must be some
useful stuff hidden away. Maybe there are some suitable del.icio.us tags I
can use?
I don't know yet whether or not I will tackle such a project, but I do want
to investigate what's involved, where the technology stands today, etc. Any
pointers cheerfully appreciated, so fire away.
Thanks,
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:49 PM 13/03/07 -0700, Jim wrote:
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also I would continue to run any choice by
> Jim, as he can usually give you a good idea about
> what it is you are getting, and what the cost of
> replacement parts could run you. Besides, if you
> don't ask him first and then run into even the
> tiniest little mishap, he'll give you the full
> James Massey treatment.
Besides I'm betting most would rather take "my" hard
knock and a small, little, incie tincie >< ribbing
than to take the whole lump yourselves. Of course
people like James like a few more lumps in thier tea,
than most, LMAO Okay my bad I take that back as I try
to become nicer. Bunch of motor pansies 8^o
Hey, I'm having a go, rather than just signing a cheque to ADC or Warfield!
Better to have a go and LEARN, and then have Jim LHAO at me and other
people learn, than no-one has a go.
Right?
Let's have more motor manglers so Jim can laugh at someone else for a change!
[Technik] James
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Well said John.
No Mechanical brakes!!! Hmmmm.
On 14/03/07, John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Peekay and All,
peekay wrote:
>
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsID/2060724.006/page/2/country/ecf/lang/eng/mini/pml-builds-640hp-electric-mini
>
>amazing specs ..160hp hub motors in EACH
>wheel to give a total of 640hp .. 0 to 100 in under 5 seconds ..
>
What's amazing, is that anyone believes them. 640 hp? Give me a break!
If it 'really' has 640 hp, it should do 0-60 in 2 seconds and run a high
8 second - low 9 second 1/4 mile, not 'under 5' which suggests 5
seconds, and a 'not talked about' more than likely 14 second 1/4 mile.
> and with a 4 yr effort concentrated on producing only two converted
>bmw mini's it looks like very serious research
>
>
In four years time, you think they could design away those goofy wheels
with their 'stuffed full of yellow concrete' look that stick too far out
at each corner! Evidently, they were so measurmerized about using hub
motors, it didn't matter what it took to put them in the car. Talk about
unsprung weight! They must have employed the same engineer who
'designed' the squeal'n Curtis controller (without any regard for the
end user of his ill-conceived product)...so bent on using a hub motors
at each wheel, with no regard for the aesthetics and end user effect.
Their 'serious research' managed to ruin the looks of the Mini, managed
to make it a $200,000 car, and managed to make it have terrible
performance for a four motor car with a touted 640hp...as I said, give
me a break! This kind of project only gives EVs a bad name.
>i dunno if any of us can suggest improvements in any areas which they
have already
>covered ...
>
Well, I sure could! The first improvement would be to tear it all apart
and start over. Get rid of whoever was in charge of the project, and get
someone who likes cars. Throw away all four of those goofy hub motors
that ruin handling, ruin the looks of the car, and add way too much
weight. Replace all of them with one single hi pro motor (AC or DC) in
the original engine location and use one controller, not four. Use A123
LiIon batteries instead of Li Pol that in order to give BIG amps need
those heavy expensive ultra caps, so you can throw them out, too.
The revised version would look like a Mini instead of a frog with
swollen appendages, it would weigh perhaps 800 - 1000 lbs. less, it
would travel farther per charge, it would have a real 250 hp or so (not
some marketeer's 640 hp), and it would rocket 0-60 in 4 seconds
flat...all at a fraction of the price. It would also be a proud
achievement that would garner praise for EVs, instead of an extremely
expensive, goofy looking engineer's dream that boasts of non-existent
'delivered horsepower'.
See Ya...John Wayland
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In a message dated 3/13/07 5:33:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< > The revised version would look like a Mini instead of a frog with
> swollen appendages, it would weigh perhaps 800 - 1000 lbs. less, it
> would travel farther per charge, it would have a real 250 hp or so (not
> some marketeer's 640 hp), and it would rocket 0-60 in 4 seconds
> flat...all at a fraction of the price. It would also be a proud
> achievement that would garner praise for EVs, instead of an extremely
> expensive, goofy looking engineer's dream that boasts of non-existent
> 'delivered horsepower'.
>
> See Ya...John Wayland
>
> >>
With its present looks and undeliverable to the ground hp or with your
revised issue I am sure the WZ would still clean its clocks.Well said John,like
we
say in nedra where are the 2 TIMESLIPs? D Berube
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--- Begin Message ---
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ok, time for some new batteries
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:02:54 -0700 (PDT)
I would be curious... did you push your pack too low on voltage? (The
voltages sound like when I reversed the cells on my one batt.)
If there is more resistance in the cables to the front, perhaps that kept
them from being drawn down as low as the rear pack. I was originally told
to keep my pack above 11 V per 12V batt (max load).
If the batteries are all in series ( as is the most common way to do it) ,
the current will be the same in all of the batteries at all times. (assuming
no mid-pack connections to other components). It doesn't matter which
cables have higher or lower resistance - the batteries will always see the
same current draw (and the same charging current also).
Phil
> I have apparently murdered my first pack but I don't understand how. I
> am starting now to think I overheated them?
> I want to replace them but I need to know what to avoid next time.
_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office
Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
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On Mar 13, 2007, at 5:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Where can I find general information on the components which make
up an EV, how they are wired together, examples of various parts
(motors,
batteries, controllers, what controllers go with what motors, why is AC
Propulsion's stuff so expensive, etc)? I can infer a bit from places
like
Electro Automotive or evparts.com, but not a lot.
This won't be direct help, but you can infer a lot more about
conversions actually on the road by visiting the EV Album at :
<http://www.evalbum.com>
Once you browse the album by what interests you for awhile I suggest
you start using the search button at the top of the page. It has a
number of options where you will get to see more cars using whatever
part interests you. Pictures are worth a lot of words, and the album
has *a lot* of good pictures. I've already done 2 conversions, worked
on a couple of others, and am starting my 3rd. The EV album has helped
almost all the way (my first conversion landed the #125 spot after it
was complete, the album was in its early EV days about the same time I
was:-)
There are a number of personal EV conversion pages out there that give
great detail about wiring and why certain parts where selected for
their conversion. Hopefully some list members chime in with those - I
have a heck of a time keeping track of them (and I bet I will be
looking for some of them as I work on my 3rd EV.)
EV questions are welcome here too!
HTH,
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
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I agree with Dennis, which may not be always, but I do here. I actually
often quote him in his infamous quote. "The truth is in the time slips." I
am sure there may be some kind of innovation in this project. I am also sure
that the engineers are not the ones spouting all the BS. These companies
have marketing departments. Usually the people in the marketing department
have never lifted a wrench. The real people doing the project, the
engineers, who actually do believe in the scientific process for the
evaluation of truth never get to speak. But they are the ones left holding
the bag from all the damage done by the PR people. I believe the engineers
would really like to test the vehicle in a 0 to 60 mph run or a quarter mile
run but the PR people, the money people, and the people trying to sell stock
in the company do not want any truth involved in the project whatsoever.
This is one minor qualm I have about Tesla's claims. I really wish they
would take it to the track for some real numbers. Yes it is very quick and I
do very much appreciate the fact that they are one of the few above board
companies out there. They are sure a lot more above board than GM who claims
they can not build a Volt because they have to wait for the battery
technology. Are they still waiting for their buddies at Chevron to release
the rights to build nickel metal hydrides. These batteries are still running
strong after many years in totally pure electrics such as the RAV4 which
some of which have escaped the crusher. GM was smart in destroying all the
evidence. No one can say they have an EV1 with over 300,000 thousand miles
on the odometer.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
In a message dated 3/13/07 5:33:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< > The revised version would look like a Mini instead of a frog with
> swollen appendages, it would weigh perhaps 800 - 1000 lbs. less, it
> would travel farther per charge, it would have a real 250 hp or so (not
> some marketeer's 640 hp), and it would rocket 0-60 in 4 seconds
> flat...all at a fraction of the price. It would also be a proud
> achievement that would garner praise for EVs, instead of an extremely
> expensive, goofy looking engineer's dream that boasts of non-existent
> 'delivered horsepower'.
>
> See Ya...John Wayland
>
> >>
With its present looks and undeliverable to the ground hp or with your
revised issue I am sure the WZ would still clean its clocks.Well said
John,like we
say in nedra where are the 2 TIMESLIPs? D Berube
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.10/720 - Release Date: 3/12/2007
7:19 PM
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--- Begin Message ---
Since lots of businesses seem to completely ignore email nowadays. I
need to take time from work to give them a call. They haven't responded
to a single email in 6 months, Makes me think they are not in business
anymore.
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--- Begin Message ---
> With one key distinction: weather protection - sortof.
>
> I've commuted on motorcycles, and currently ride my bike when it's not
> miserable out, but I would ride either one all of the time if they had
> reasonable weather protection. So I guess whether it's a car or a
> motorcycle is less relevant to me than overall practicallity, which both
in
> EV form should deliver well with slightly different functionality.
>
> I'm not really looking for any greater range than the BugE should provide,
> but no doubt the extra carrying capacity and complete enclosure of a car
> would be a bit more convenient.
>
> I don't know. I'm still waffling . .
>
> - Kip
I've ridden MCs all year here (where the BugE is built)... and it should
provide a fair amount of protection... but you'd still want to bundle up.
That's just as well, as you probably wouldn't want to drive a 3 wheeled
vehicle if there's a chance of snow/ice. I think it'd make a good
replacement for a small (sub 250cc) MC... with better wind protection than
most.
I guess you could get an idea from driving your car. If you could turn off
the heater and drive w/ the back windows open (at speeds of less than 40MPH)
I'd guess it'd be about the same as this rig. You'd probably also want to
watch the odometer and keep range to 20 miles or less, per the specs.
As for speed and range, I'd assume you could get one of these to do the job
cheaper than converting the ICE (same speed/range). You might even find some
used Electrathon parts to keep the conversion costs of the BugE low.
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I would recommend Jerry Halstead's sites http://jerryrig.com/convert/
and http://www.evconvert.com/ They detail pretty much everything he
went though converting his cars and provides lots of useful info,
links and diagrams.
On 3/13/07, Paul G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Mar 13, 2007, at 5:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Where can I find general information on the components which make
> up an EV, how they are wired together, examples of various parts
> (motors,
> batteries, controllers, what controllers go with what motors, why is AC
> Propulsion's stuff so expensive, etc)? I can infer a bit from places
> like
> Electro Automotive or evparts.com, but not a lot.
This won't be direct help, but you can infer a lot more about
conversions actually on the road by visiting the EV Album at :
<http://www.evalbum.com>
Once you browse the album by what interests you for awhile I suggest
you start using the search button at the top of the page. It has a
number of options where you will get to see more cars using whatever
part interests you. Pictures are worth a lot of words, and the album
has *a lot* of good pictures. I've already done 2 conversions, worked
on a couple of others, and am starting my 3rd. The EV album has helped
almost all the way (my first conversion landed the #125 spot after it
was complete, the album was in its early EV days about the same time I
was:-)
There are a number of personal EV conversion pages out there that give
great detail about wiring and why certain parts where selected for
their conversion. Hopefully some list members chime in with those - I
have a heck of a time keeping track of them (and I bet I will be
looking for some of them as I work on my 3rd EV.)
EV questions are welcome here too!
HTH,
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--
www.electric-lemon.com
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