EV Digest 6700
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) White Zombie at 720 Volts
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) 1,400 horsepower in batteries?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Light EV, controller/motor?
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Video on you tube
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Gear Ratio for a One-Speed (was RE: Light EV, controller/motor?)
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: DC-DC converter
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Electric truck project.
by "Elia Tarasoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Lithium Iron phosphate with BMS
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: BugEv Lightning Bug model
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Light EV, controller/motor?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Lithium Iron phosphate with BMS
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 1,400 horsepower in batteries?
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Kind OT: homemade disk motors
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Linear motors
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Video on you tube
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Controller Schematics that are descent?
by Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) A123 Hiring
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Light EV, controller/motor?
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Video on you tube
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Linear motors
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: BugEv Lightning Bug model
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Imagine for a moment if the 2,000 amp Zilla model had 1200 volt
internals and the Zombie had it's two strings of 30 in one string of
60.
Would there be a performance increase at 720 volts instead of 360?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It says here the A123 pack in the KillaCycle is the equivalent of more
then 350 hp. If I had 4 of these same packs in my car wired in
parallel, would I have 1,400hp?
http://www.killacycle.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The bed won't hit the cab if the bed pivots at or below the bottom of the bed.
A crude alternative is to trim off the parts of the bed that will hit the back
of
the cab or mount the bed farther back on the frame. If I were you I'd check
the EVDL Photo Album for tilt bed EVs. You might find pictures of tilt bed
details or at least the names and Internet addresses of people who have
tilt beds. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:44 AM
Subject: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
I'm converting a 1986 Mazda (extended cab) pickup to electric.
I want to use the stock bed (it is pretty light).
How can I attach it, and have it lift to access the batteries underneath the
bed -
I'm concerned about mounting it on the back, then when it swings up, the
bottom/front of the bed (in front of the wheel-well/outer skin) hitting the
back of the cab.
I'm thinking that it'll need to slide back a little, but I don't know what
kind of mounting hardware would provide that functionality.
I've seen a few pictures of trucks with 'standard' beds lifted, but wasn't
able to see any details about how the bed was mounted to avoid the clearance
problem.
Suggestions?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > I definitely like the weight dynamics of a
> > battery pack between the front wheels, as well.
> Don't get the weight to far forward, or you'll faceplant when
> you hit the brakes.
'Stoppies' are only fun when controlled. :D
> Ideally you want 30-40% of the weight (including pilot/passenger)
> on the rear wheel.
This should be pretty easy to achieve given that I carry too much
personal ballast these days and the empty shell minus powertain will
weigh 400-500 distributed pretty evenly across the three wheels.
Controller, charger, DC/DC converter, and/or aux battery will mount
centered on the seatback, as well. The motor will be set just ahead of
the rear wheel, providing good initial balance, and I intend to make the
battery boxes (two, 1 forward of the axle, 1 aft) adjustable relative to
the chassis.
I'm definitely going into this wary of the performance quibbles inherent
in a tail-dragging trike.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/25/07, Reverend Gadget wrote:
Check out this little piece I put up on you tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vhywPK7Vz0
Excellent video and excellent editing. I liked the presentation and
it was very effective in proving a point and really took all the
dauntingness out of doing a conversion.
"How come we're not doing it already."
Every person I've ever talked to about it just flat doesn't have
~$8,000 in their pocket to spend on a conversion.
These very same people though will run out and buy a brand new
~$20,000 or $30,000 car though. How? ~$299/month.
Can that be done with conversions? How low of a monthly payment could
a converter handle?
If I've got ~$175,000 worth of conversion components in vehicles being
driven around out there and I'm pulling in ~$50/month from these
people to pay that $175,000 off... Does this math add up(I don't think
it's in my favor!)? At $200/month?
The cost of a conversion and the amount per month that it would be
financially sound? That's the $175,000 question of the day.
If I never purchase a house, the Zilla will be the most expensive
thing I've ever bought. It will cost nearly twice as much as the
vehicle it's put into.
I've never bought a new car and there is an extremely good chance I
will never have a car payment. I might have a ~$5,000 solid state box
though...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At one point in time, Northern Tool sold some "hinges" to allow a
pickup to have a tilt bed. I can't find them now though. It seems
like they weren't all that expensive/complex either.
http://www.northerntool.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At, 60 Volts there might not be enough torque to pull you through.
On 26/04/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's @ 60v, the top end. And it looks to be able to go to 4000RPM
> no problem.. which is plenty of RPM for highway speeds.
That begs another question -- what are HP/tq requirements for reasonable
acceleration to highway speeds, and maintenance thereof?
I know how to work the math for this in my ICEs:
* my 302 Amigo does quite well with 275hp and 300ft-lbs of torque (peak
near 5K rpm).
* my Dodge does well, differently, with 180hp and 500ft-lb (peak near 2K
rpm).
* our Subaru is different, as well, cooking up 135 hp and 140ft-lb (peak
a bit over 4K rpm).
...but they have very clear curves, and require very different driving
styles. Especially the Dodge, with the turbo and a box of big gears that
won't be hurried. All have dramatically different final drive ratios, as
well, and I have tuned each system to make the best of their respective
mechanicals (smaller turbo, larger tires, different ring and pinions,
etc.).
I'm frankly not sure how to equate any of this to EV (flattish) power
curves or a one-speed transmission -- going with chain drive allows me
to pick cogs to change the performance, but getting that first ration
guess is daunting. Power depends less on RPMs and more on the current
you can pull out of the batteries, as well as what you can squeeze
through the controller. How do I make that first best guess -- just work
from the anecdotal reports of others?
Other electric motor curves:
*
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/products/mt2112/MT2112ColdPerformance.PD
F
* http://www.evparts.com/shopping/products/mt2113/mt2113voltagecurve.PDF
A friend has advised that I just go ahead and install a transmission
from the start!
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marty,
It sounds like you are on track for a nice electric Jeep. Your weight
savings will allow a strong battery pack. You can look at EV Album
listing number 1139 which is a 3,875 pound Ford Ranger with a 9 inch 20
hp Advanced DC motor, Zapi 500 amp controller, and 16 Trojan T-145 6
volt batteries. It has a manual transmission with no clutch. It lists
a top speed of 75 MPH, and a range of 80 miles while driving
conservatively. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1139
By looking around at various motors, controllers, and vehicle weights on
the EV Album you can get a feel for what you may need.
A recent post mentioned feedback from a dealer or manufacturer that the
loss from a controller at full output was about 2% and that a bypass
contactor was not worth the problems that could be had. You may be able
to search the archives to read the exact post.
Please consider posting your project on the EV Album web site so that we
can see your progress, and the finished product. I am curious how your
transmission works out, and what it weighs. You are going to have a
reverse gear through the transmission I guess. I keep thinking that a
motor direct to a rear end would work to keep it simple, and keep it
light, but the transmission gets you the optimum gear ratio and a
reverse.
Keep us posted.
Alan
(Original message has been shortened)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:57 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
Newbie here, humbly begging knowledge so as not to make expensive
mistakes.
I'm starting with a 1978 Jeep CJ-7 frame (new replacement), fiberglass
body
and 2 wheel drive. Right now, with the frame, springs, axles and body
I'm
at 1550 lbs... I'm planning on using a 3 speed auto
trans (Turbo 350, no overdrive) without a converter for rotational mass
and
weight reduction...
Now, has anybody messed with bypassing the controller with a contacter
with
a current limiting resistance for a sort of a "passing gear" effect? I
figure beyond 500 amps, I don't need fine control, more like a Nitrous
blast
effect, to teach the Mustang owners a thing or two about electrics :).
I've been seeing fairly radical differences in acceleration numbers for
cars
with similar motors and battery voltages, and I'm trying to avoid
dissapointment. Are some people a bit slower because they are using 400
amp
controllers, and/or insufficient gear reduction (torque multiplication)
to
move all those batteries, or am I just dreaming that sporty car
performance
can be had with anything less than dual motors and a 2k amp controller?
Thanks in advance,
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Likewise with a 228V nominal pack sagging to the 210's and charging to the 280
range. I need to add a relay to kick it up to 14.2V when the car is turned on.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:06:59 PM
Subject: RE: DC-DC converter
I can confirm that the IOTA 230V-55A unit works and works well on a 288V
pack with a 354V end of charge voltage.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm completely new to the electric vehicle scene.
I've looked for decent used trucks which I could convert, but to no avail.
(Expensive, old or both.)
I've got a 1993 Ford Explorer I can use. (it's almost dead :)
The only problem besides the extreme weight is that its an automatic.
I was thinking I could take out the transmission altogether.
The performance I want isn't that much (until I get more
time/money/experience for EV):
- 100 km/h max speed
- 60-80 km range
- spend less than $10000 CAD
Is this possible?
I think I could do it, since I have lots of room for batteries.
There's also a few shops in town which specialize in industrial strength AC
motors.
(So very much cheaper than ones I've seen advertized as specific to EV.)
The hardest part I think would be to convert battery power to something the
motor can use.
I'd prefer to not use a kit, since that'd up the cost significantly. :/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure, I forwarded myself the email while I was at work. This is from one
of the companies, (not the one suppling powerstream)
Others like Lee and Victor and Otmar who have more knowledge,experiance,
and capability may want to send her info on balance boards they may be
working on.
All of this is email fodder at the moment, the truth is in the pudding.
I need to free up some cash and buy some.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dear Mr Jeff Shanab,
Thanks for your e-mail and Sorry for my late reply .Now I now want ot
give you your required information as follows :
1)I will be constructing modules of 50 to 100ah and about 10V to 24V. I
have been considering welding together 26650's but your large format
cells may be a better solution.
-------Yes ,high capacity is also an advantage of our battery.We now
have 12V 24V series battery pack ,but to be honest we don't have single
cell which is over 50AH and below 100ah now .And our 100Ah is still on
the stage of development and research .As a result,I now can only give
you the dimension of 50ah single cell for your reference .The dimension
of 50Ah is 30*150*210(mm)[not including the post] and its weight is
2150g.As for the pack ,we will add the PCB and Balance board ,except for
the overall dimension of the aligned single cells .
2) Most LiFePo4 are 3.3V nominal 3.8V end of charge and have 1 2,5V low
voltage cut-off. I will be designing and programming the balancing
boards so I will need more precise information if I buy your cells.
------Our nominal voltage is 3.15V ;end of charge voltage is 3.65V ;low
voltage cut-off is 2.3V .If we align the single cells together ,the
referred data will also be added together .We are very glad to hear that
you will design the blance board yourself .If your future designed
balance board is of good quality ,we can also be your customer and buy
that from you .:) If you need any more information ,please feel free to
let us know .
3) My Timeline is to make a module in the next 3-6 monthes and to drop
it into my testbed and collect information. After that Some time will be
needed to get a Plastic Injection Mold made then I will have to start
buying small batches, enough to make a 300V 50-100ah pack.I am in Fresno
California, USA (93720 zip code)
--------Your required battery pack is 300V which is a very high voltage
and we will need more single cells to build the pack .As a result,it
will need more technics and much more difficult .So we will give you the
price of $2/AH .We will do our best to help you to forward your program .
4) The document you sent me has a lot of information but I didn't see
any charge/discharge graphs. AS a battery for Electric Vehicles, The
amperage capabilities are important and the effect on cycle life and
capacity need to be known. As your batteries are not yet avail, maybe
you don't have that information yet. One of the things that I have found
useful, is knowing the internal resistance.
------Enclosed I will send you an attachment which contains some curves
for 50ah single cell .Please check and if you need more information ,We
will try our best to help you .In fact ,we already have big scale
production of 36V 10ah ,24V 10ah 48v 20AH /30ah etc .However we do have
no big production of very high capacity which is over 100ah .
Hope the above information can be useful for you .
Best regards !
Cindy
Cindy
> > China Hipower Energy Group
> > Tel :86-0532-85823795 Fax:86-0532-85825192
> > www.chinahipower.com.cn
> > website: wwww.chinabatteries.net wwww.chinahipower.com.cn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congrats on your new BugE. Are you going to post pix up somewhere? (You must
have gotten one of his first kits. Are you somewhere in the NW?)
I look forward to hearing about your experiences with this little rig.
----- Original Message -----
From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 7:07 AM
Subject: BugEv Lightning Bug model
> Hey all you racers
> I have just completed assembling my BugEv from Blue
> Sky Design. Thanks Mark. But being a speed junkie I
> wanted it to go a little faster so I installed an A DC
> 7" motor and and altrax 72 volt controller. I used a
> battery pack of 6 12 volt gell cell and AGM large
> format batteries just because I had them and was in a
> rush to get done before Earth Day. BTW EVERYBODY
> LOVED IT. It is very fast even with the large heavy
> batteries but now I want to start to make it really
> fast. I want the lightest batteries with the greatest
> current draw and a controller to use this power
> correctly for 10-15 seconds what
> batteries/voltage/controller would you recommend for a
> 1/4 miler with an Advanced DC 4001-9 --7" motor. the
> name plate suggests 36v I have already moved to 72v.
> Could I use 144v exotic chemistry batteries with
> controller that would allow series parallel switching
> ? do i need to get a Zilla for this? If so which one?
> will 144v kill this motor for short bursts down a
> track. Wayland, Wilde, FT Don Crabtree, Rich, Roy Le
> muer, Jim Husted, Dennis Berube, Sean lawless, any
> other race folks . I really want to build this
> little gem into a real pocket rocket and suggestions
> would be appreciated. we have a little 1/8 mi course
> here and a couple of 1/4 mi set ups that have open
> raceing so I ca test it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Batson at EVAmerica sells a kit for the S-10 that
might work on your truck.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
---------------------------------
I'm converting a 1986 Mazda (extendedcab) pickup to
electric.
I want to use the stock bed (it is prettylight).
How can I attach it, and have it liftto access the
batteries underneath the bed -
I'm concerned about mounting it on theback, then when
it swings up, the bottom/front of the bed (in front
ofthe wheel-well/outer skin) hitting the back of the
cab.
I'm thinking that it'll need to slideback a little,
but I don't know what kind of mounting hardware would
providethat functionality.
I've seen a few pictures of trucks with'standard' beds
lifted, but wasn't able to see any details about how
thebed was mounted to avoid the clearance problem.
Suggestions?
Thanks!
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/car/318248369.html
I've been REALLY REALLY tempted to get this car and either make it
half-width, or maybe just put a couple rear wheels close together inside
the back (no fenders in back). The chopped top is already cool.
Was thinking of asking the seller if he'll do the half mod for me, as I
don't have room for another car, but I'll guess he just wants it gone.
Jack
Timothy Balcer wrote:
On 4/25/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is this going to based around an RQRiley plan?
No, though I really like his designs -- I'm just confident about getting
a good result from the fiberglass over foam construction. I know 'glass
well enough, but coming up with a symmetrical foam underlayment seems
difficult.
oof. I hear you there.. I might be ordering a set of TriMuter plans
just to see how he specifies the measurements. If its lofting, then I
can handle that no sweat.
> Just curious as to what sort of three wheeler you
> are going to build. Tadpole or trike?
Taildragger/tadpole/2f1r. Two seats, three wheels, and no doors,
windows, or roof.
> Neat project idea! :)
Thanks! :D
You could use the TriMagnum idea .. using a motorcycle back end and a
car front end, welded together and braced.
> The ADC is obviously the first choice because of
> price/power ratio...
Especially for a first-timer, trying to prove out feasibility.
> ... but if you wanted to spring a bit more cash you could get the
larger
> LEMCO motor, save a bit of weight, have more efficiency, and get
Regen.
I'd be willing to stretch that far, if the motor were perfect.... Would
the LEM-170 be the best fit of LEMCO offerings? I'm looking around right
now on the net for other DC efficiency ratings...
LEMCO's light weight looks good, but all of their graphs just show
limited-range RPM windows. http://www.lemcoltd.com/lem_170.htm Will this
work full-range in EV use?
Good question. If you look at the torque curves that evparts supplies
for the big one, it -does- seem to have the juice to get you there
though, upwards of 16hp. This one:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/products/mt5115/008-200-60V.gif
That's @ 60v, the top end. And it looks to be able to go to 4000RPM
no problem.. which is plenty of RPM for highway speeds. Just tailor
the tire, gears and chain to match your expectations :) Its rated for
100A continous, and looking at the various Torque graphs, that means
you should be able to maintain highway speeds no problem, given light
weight and aerodynamic forms.
BUT.. I don't have any direct experience with these guys. You may want
to ask the evparts folks (*wave*) about the LEMCO's suitability for
your project. There may be some hidden bugaboo I am not seeing. Also,
you'll be paying $1200 more for it than the ADC one, so you'll have to
decide if that is worth regen and about 30lbs of weight.
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wait a sec....
if they mean $2/AH for the base 50AH pack, thats $100 per cell. So
you're talking base cost of about $9k/15kWh, plus shipping.
Now that is very interesting :) that's $0.60 Wh and the total weight
and space is pretty low.
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I modified his kit to work on my 1989 Isuzu. I had to move the bed back
about 1" to clear the cab. No problem at all.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
Bob Batson at EVAmerica sells a kit for the S-10 that
might work on your truck.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
---------------------------------
I'm converting a 1986 Mazda (extendedcab) pickup to
electric.
I want to use the stock bed (it is prettylight).
How can I attach it, and have it liftto access the
batteries underneath the bed -
I'm concerned about mounting it on theback, then when
it swings up, the bottom/front of the bed (in front
ofthe wheel-well/outer skin) hitting the back of the
cab.
I'm thinking that it'll need to slideback a little,
but I don't know what kind of mounting hardware would
providethat functionality.
I've seen a few pictures of trucks with'standard' beds
lifted, but wasn't able to see any details about how
thebed was mounted to avoid the clearance problem.
Suggestions?
Thanks!
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/776 - Release Date: 4/25/2007
12:19 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pretty close to that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: 1,400 horsepower in batteries?
It says here the A123 pack in the KillaCycle is the equivalent of more
then 350 hp. If I had 4 of these same packs in my car wired in
parallel, would I have 1,400hp?
http://www.killacycle.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<snip>
It would be interesting to see a "pump" with no moving parts except the
fluid itself.
Hmm.
I wonder if you could 'mix in' ferritic elements to some fluids to
pump them this way, and have them pulled out magnetically while the
fluid was on a gravity downfall (or some other method to break the
pumping chain)? You could make 'rotor pipes' even, not having to have
any of the rotor touching the medium.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Question to the EEs out there.. just pondering this and thought some
of you would have the answer at your fingertips :)
Realizing that linear motors are not as efficient, pound for pound, as
rotory ones, I wondered.. the problem of saturation... could it be
mitigated if you setup a double action rotory linear array (like an
airplane engine) with, say, 3+ 'pistons' connected to a crankshaft?
Say the 'piston' was a magnetically borne long, permanent magnet, and
was some significant distance away from the shaft itself, and the
whole thing was computer controlled.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Alan (and All),
Thanks for the reference to the EVAlbum. I'll have a look around.
I was thinking of a controller bypass as a cost savings more than avoiding
loss. That way I could use a reasonably priced controller in the 500A range
for normal driving, but close a bypass contactor with a current limiter on
it to get 1000A or so when more acceleration is needed, maybe 2 or three of
them with staged current limits. I'm just thinking the contactor would be
cheaper than the cost of a higher current controller. I could also put a
key switch on the bypass contactor so my stepson can't use it
inappropriately or my wife hit it unexpectedly :).
The transmission will be an interesting experiment. I haven't weighed it,
but from carrying it, I'd guess it's 75 or 80 lbs without the converter.
It's pretty beefy. It may be overkill, but maybe not if I dump 1500 amps
through a contactor into a 9 inch motor. It will get me a reverse and about
2.5 times torque multiplication to get rolling. Another issue that I will
have to address is the vacuum modulator. The Turbo 350 normally uses
manifold vacuum to influence shift hardness and, I believe, shift points. I
may have to figure out a way to use modulated power brake vacuum to simulate
manifold vacuum. I think the tricky thing will be seperating shift firmness
from shift point. Normally an ICE trans raises both at full throttle. With
an electric, I believe we want to keep shift points high all the time, but
still vary shift firmness.
I'm still contemplating the direct drive issue. I'd think that pulling away
from a stop with no gear reduction (giving torque multiplication) other than
the rear axle is going to require a bigger motor to achieve decent
acceleration. The bigger motor will be enough heavier and more expensive to
offset the advantage of skipping the transmission. Electric motors have
torque from zero RPM, but you're still giving up the torque multiplication.
But I'm sure there are people around here with a better feel for this than I
have.
Thanks,
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
Marty,
It sounds like you are on track for a nice electric Jeep. Your weight
savings will allow a strong battery pack. You can look at EV Album
listing number 1139 which is a 3,875 pound Ford Ranger with a 9 inch 20
hp Advanced DC motor, Zapi 500 amp controller, and 16 Trojan T-145 6
volt batteries. It has a manual transmission with no clutch. It lists
a top speed of 75 MPH, and a range of 80 miles while driving
conservatively. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1139
By looking around at various motors, controllers, and vehicle weights on
the EV Album you can get a feel for what you may need.
A recent post mentioned feedback from a dealer or manufacturer that the
loss from a controller at full output was about 2% and that a bypass
contactor was not worth the problems that could be had. You may be able
to search the archives to read the exact post.
Please consider posting your project on the EV Album web site so that we
can see your progress, and the finished product. I am curious how your
transmission works out, and what it weighs. You are going to have a
reverse gear through the transmission I guess. I keep thinking that a
motor direct to a rear end would work to keep it simple, and keep it
light, but the transmission gets you the optimum gear ratio and a
reverse.
Keep us posted.
Alan
(Original message has been shortened)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:57 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Motor, controller & battery recommendations?
Newbie here, humbly begging knowledge so as not to make expensive
mistakes.
I'm starting with a 1978 Jeep CJ-7 frame (new replacement), fiberglass
body
and 2 wheel drive. Right now, with the frame, springs, axles and body
I'm
at 1550 lbs... I'm planning on using a 3 speed auto
trans (Turbo 350, no overdrive) without a converter for rotational mass
and
weight reduction...
Now, has anybody messed with bypassing the controller with a contacter
with
a current limiting resistance for a sort of a "passing gear" effect? I
figure beyond 500 amps, I don't need fine control, more like a Nitrous
blast
effect, to teach the Mustang owners a thing or two about electrics :).
I've been seeing fairly radical differences in acceleration numbers for
cars
with similar motors and battery voltages, and I'm trying to avoid
dissapointment. Are some people a bit slower because they are using 400
amp
controllers, and/or insufficient gear reduction (torque multiplication)
to
move all those batteries, or am I just dreaming that sporty car
performance
can be had with anything less than dual motors and a 2k amp controller?
Thanks in advance,
Marty
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Actually...
$175,000 in outstanding loans, at the listed 60 month rate, is $3465
per month in income.
That's about 6 cars @ 29k
Or, for a conversion payoff, we're talking around $15k per car, if
they get the really good stuff and shiny blinking things.
So thats about 12 cars
That's $288 a month
all of this is assuming no downpayment, which Im sure people will
front. Also you may want to investigate battery replacement clauses
involving salvage and additional costs due to mistreatment causing
lower life. However, if the claim of some of the batteries out there
getting 2000 cycles is true, then the pack will last at least 5 years,
if not much longer. You can warrant the replacement pack after some
bean counting and offer them at reasonable rates to your customers.
It's possible. Businesses just have to get underwritten by insurance
to do it and not take a hit if someone defaults... then you'd get a
premium payment, the cost of a repo man and the outstanding debt after
residual value recouped to be collected by a third party, as well as a
cash out on payments missed during repo attempts. Assuming it takes
more than a month.
You can finance the parts purchase to do the job, as well as get sub
debt lenders and such to underwrite labor costs, and at reasonable
rates (thats tricky.. rates depend on a number of things. If you have
paper with a signed loan agreement, you'll be in better shape as that
represents collateral as accounts receivable). You can use whatever
down payment you get as collateral on your loan, and hopefully you'll
be getting something like keystone so it will seem like twice.
So actually, as long as you price things right, you don't have to
spend too much of your own money to do a conversion. Heck you could
just ask for a 25% down and finance the rest type deal.. people would
go for that I'd think, considering absolutely nobody else does this.
Why the heck isn't anyone bugging Toyota to get gliders and do
conversions on them as a sub brand effort? Or do you think they would
consider that brand dilution?
Hm. Maybe you could get gliders elsewhere.
--- End Message ---
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Does anybody have Controller schematics that are descent? Or schematics
for a inverter for AC motors??
Thanx Chris
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--- Begin Message ---
Some of these jobs were posted early last year?
http://www.a123systems.com/html/company/career.html
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Hi Randy
I too am making a three wheel vehicle that is more
robust than the Bug E But based on it-- ultimately I
will completely re configure the frame and much of the
rest of the vehicle but one has to start somewhere.
actually I have built, owned and modified three
tadpole trike EV's one with an ETEC and two with hub
motors: lead acid gelcells, AGM, and Lithum power
sources. I have also owned two EV cars a VW bug and a
Porsch 914. I think the BugE just happens to be the
best looking and potentially the fastest/longest
rangepersonal transport vehicle of them all. Thus far
I have cut the frame in half and added enough metal to
take the extra hp/torque of the 72 volt 6.7 in motor.
I got it going more than 60mph and decided that I
needed to rebuild the steering. I have a quad front
end with hydraulic disk breaks that I will eventually
install along with rack and pinion steering. I then
will lengthen the frame to take more big AGM
batteries. right now i have sacrificed range for
small gel cell batteries just to see what kind of top
speed I can achieve with reasonable acceleration. I
have some pictures of the mods as I make them if you
are at all interested.
kEVs
--- Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You might want to talk with Keith Vansickle who is
> building
> > a high speed variant of the BugE. Search the list
> for "lightning
> > bug" from April 23 for more details.
> I remember his post from when I first read it -- I'm
> excited to follow
> his progress, but after researching more, I really
> thing the Bug-E is
> too light for my purposes, and is somewhere between
> a recumbent bicycle
> and a scooter. I'm looking a few notches more
> developed, for the space
> between a motorcycle and a small car.
>
> Thanks, though! I think the Bug-E is a GREAT concept
> and will fit a
> niche for many.
>
> Randii
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
You need to fashion an offset.that is a bar 1/4" thick with a stud welded in it
& a hole. You make the hole the distance you want to offset the bed. It will
lift up the bed the thickness of the offset material. You could also drill
holes in a different spot in the bed to do the same thing. . Very simple.
LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:44 AM
Subject: 1986 mazda, using stock pickup bed
I'm converting a 1986 Mazda (extended cab) pickup to electric.
I want to use the stock bed (it is pretty light).
How can I attach it, and have it lift to access the batteries underneath the
bed -
I'm concerned about mounting it on the back, then when it swings up, the
bottom/front of the bed (in front of the wheel-well/outer skin) hitting the
back of the cab.
I'm thinking that it'll need to slide back a little, but I don't know what
kind of mounting hardware would provide that functionality.
I've seen a few pictures of trucks with 'standard' beds lifted, but wasn't
able to see any details about how the bed was mounted to avoid the clearance
problem.
Suggestions?
Thanks!
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I was thinking more along the lines of a person provides the vehicle
to be converted, and the needed components
installed(motor/controller/charger/batteries) and the monthly payments
to pay off the conversion items.
Can some sort of small loan be taken out from a bank to purchase the
needed conversion items?
Buy a new car for ~$16,000 or create an electric for ~$8,000? I walk
in the bank and say "I need a loan for $8,000" and they say "what
for"? What's the valid reason that will land the loan?
What would the monthly payment be on a small bank loan?
If gas hits $4/gal this summer(hurricane/war/refinery/terror), I think
more will be interested in the possibility of owning and driving an
EV.
My silent high performance EV will be much more residential area
friendly vs's ~1,400hp unmuffled turbo charged V8.. It's hard to idle
that out of the neighborhood quietly..
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Not sure about what you are proposing, but Vancouver, British Columbia
Skytrain uses linear motors for their rail car propulsion and they work very
well. These are induction type motor with an fixed guideway aluminum
reaction rail. Close air gap is maintained because the rail cars run on
steel rails. I am not sure if this technology could ever be used with EV's.
A related application, although, it the EV charger where the transformer
primary is in the road or garage floor and the secondary is on the car.
This also suffers from larger than optimum air gap.
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/t2000bc/learning/etb/electric_vehicles.html
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:52:44 -0400, Timothy Balcer wrote
> Question to the EEs out there.. just pondering this and thought some
> of you would have the answer at your fingertips :)
>
> Realizing that linear motors are not as efficient, pound for pound,
> as rotory ones, I wondered.. the problem of saturation... could it
> be mitigated if you setup a double action rotory linear array (like
> an airplane engine) with, say, 3+ 'pistons' connected to a
> crankshaft? Say the 'piston' was a magnetically borne long,
> permanent magnet, and was some significant distance away from the
> shaft itself, and the whole thing was computer controlled.
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Yes I was persistent and actually have 02 the second
kit/frame. I am going to modify it quite extensively
and have/will take pictures, however I do not have a
web site to post them to yet but will send them to
interested individuals. I got it put together for our
earth day and received lots of very positive response.
I have since taken it all apart and begun re building
it to go faster. not sure how fast until issue two
comes out. first assembly went over 60mph but was too
scary for me. 6.7" DC, 72v 450amp 4 to 1 gear ratio.
total weight right at 600LBS includes 260lb
driver--too much weight for design will lighten second
version by 100 lbs and stiffen up steering...
kEVs
--- Michael Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Congrats on your new BugE. Are you going to post pix
> up somewhere? (You must
> have gotten one of his first kits. Are you somewhere
> in the NW?)
>
> I look forward to hearing about your experiences
> with this little rig.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 7:07 AM
> Subject: BugEv Lightning Bug model
>
>
> > Hey all you racers
> > I have just completed assembling my BugEv from
> Blue
> > Sky Design. Thanks Mark. But being a speed
> junkie I
> > wanted it to go a little faster so I installed an
> A DC
> > 7" motor and and altrax 72 volt controller. I
> used a
> > battery pack of 6 12 volt gell cell and AGM large
> > format batteries just because I had them and was
> in a
> > rush to get done before Earth Day. BTW EVERYBODY
> > LOVED IT. It is very fast even with the large
> heavy
> > batteries but now I want to start to make it
> really
> > fast. I want the lightest batteries with the
> greatest
> > current draw and a controller to use this power
> > correctly for 10-15 seconds what
> > batteries/voltage/controller would you recommend
> for a
> > 1/4 miler with an Advanced DC 4001-9 --7" motor.
> the
> > name plate suggests 36v I have already moved to
> 72v.
> > Could I use 144v exotic chemistry batteries with
> > controller that would allow series parallel
> switching
> > ? do i need to get a Zilla for this? If so which
> one?
> > will 144v kill this motor for short bursts down a
> > track. Wayland, Wilde, FT Don Crabtree, Rich,
> Roy Le
> > muer, Jim Husted, Dennis Berube, Sean lawless, any
> > other race folks . I really want to build this
> > little gem into a real pocket rocket and
> suggestions
> > would be appreciated. we have a little 1/8 mi
> course
> > here and a couple of 1/4 mi set ups that have open
> > raceing so I ca test it.
>
>
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