EV Digest 6773
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) AGNS has new motors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) RE: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile - cruise control
by "Alan Gideon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: $30K EVs available in Italy and Switzerland
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) LTC - Lithium Technology Corp. Lithium batteries
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Charging timer
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Solar powered craft
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Solar boat completes Atlantic crossing - Green Machines - MSNBC.com
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: AGNS has new motors
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: AGNS has new motors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) ALERT: EV conversion on WGN news tonight
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: AGNS has new motors
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) ALERT: EV conversion on WGN news tonight
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Solar boat crosses atlantic transatlantic21: transatlantic21
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: LTC - Lithium Technology Corp. Lithium batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: AGNS has new motors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Solar powered craft
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Electric Power Steering/YARIS
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Solar boat completes Atlantic crossing - Green Machines - MSNBC.com
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: magnetic field in EV car? Never ending story!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Current Limit on ye-ol Curtis PMC 25
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: magnetic field in EV car?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The Lawless AGNS bike is almost back together and ready for a shot at
the 144 volt NEDRA motorcycle record on Wednesday night.
Looks like it's back to typical Cleveland weather , (mid 50's and a
chance of rain forecast). New Perm motors are in place. I tuned them
on the test bench this morning slightly different than before. I'll
try not to get so greedy with the motor voltage this time. We're
making some charging changes as well. Hopefully all of this leads to
the "as yet to be obtained" 100 mph run and a bit closer to the 12's. I
was looking at the NEDRA motorcycle records today and it just struck me
how impressive one of them is. In 2004 Duane Gergich ran a 12.49 at
100.7 mph. on 156 volts! That is not only darn quick for any bike but
is second overall to the Killacycle at less than half the voltage! I
think we have our work cut out for us on that one.
Shawn Lawless
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So what sort of "constant" function does Roland's constant accelerator
pressure provide? Just confused.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 10:03 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile - cruise control
Constant current on the battery side or the motor side?
On the battery side you'd have trouble on hills as the vehicle slows WAY
down. You'd end up going up the hill very slowly while the motor was
drawing lots of current and overheating.
If you maintained constant motor current, you'd slow down even more going
up hill until you came to a stop and then fried your commutator.
Constant voltage on the motor side is somewhat better as you'd maintain a
somewhat even speed, but it might not be as efficient.
Unless you are going to use a computer controlled system with a really
good algorythm, your best method is to use a well programmed human to
control the system.
> So, instead of programming for a constant speed, you could program for
> constant current, and let the speed vary as it would?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 2:30 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile - cruise control
>
> If you was on a dead level grade, cruise controls works, as it does in my
> other cars, but in hilly country while going up a grade, you can feel more
> power being added which is pushing the accelerator harder, and going down
> hill, it holds you back.
>
> I make more range, while holding the accelerator at a constant pressure
> which may slow you up a bit, and let it get up to a high as a speed as
> possible while coasting down a grade.
>
> At one time we did not have a speed limit, now it is 79 mph, (4 miles
> over),
>
> where at times a vehicle may get up to over 85 mph going down hill, which
> I
> therefore can roller coast up the next which slows the vehicle to about 60
> mph going up the next grade.
>
> I was be able to coast all the way from my work place all the way into my
> garage which was about 5 miles.
>
> I now have too many short runs of about 1/2 mile long with only one stop
> at
> the end of each run. It's like driving on a very long 3 to 5 mile long
> connected parking lot.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile - cruise control
>
>
>> It seems like cruise control would be very easy to build into an EV
>> controller... its all electronic.
>> Wonder why its not done... or is it?
>>
>> On May 13, 2007, at 6:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Roland> One way I found that can reduce the AH or wh usage is if
>> > Roland> everything else is perfect, is the amount of pressure you
>> > Roland> maintain on the accelerator. For example, to accelerate
>> > my EV up
>> > Roland> to a certain speed, I just press the accelerator just
>> > to that
>> > Roland> point which will maintain that speed, not push it to
>> > the floor
>> > Roland> and then when you get to the speed you want, then let
>> > up on the
>> > Roland> accelerator at that point.
>> >
>> > Seems like cruise control would be very helpful in an EV.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I happened to be in Florence (Italy) last summer. And while I was
swinging around downtown, I ran into a public charging station, right in
the center of the city. All sorts of EVs were sipping juice, though the
electrical connections were, well, Italian :) Unfortunately, my Italian is
ok enough to get around, but not to discuss EVs. So - after checking all
those different EVs, I took a bunch of pictures and went on 'swinging'. I
might be able to find them (the pictures), should somebody be interested.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know how this compares to other lithium batteries but If you
got 90 of their 120 Ah HE-852050 3.6v cells you would have a 324v
120ah 500lb battery pack!!
http://www.lithiumtech.com/StandardCells.html
Tehben
5/14/2007
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Next Generation Battery Technology Makes Hybrid and Electric Vehicles
a Reality
Lithium Technology Corporation offers the Largest Lithium Iron
Phosphate Cells in World
PLYMOUTH MEETING, PA, May 14, 2007 � The battery power solution for
advanced automotives has arrived. Lithium Technology Corporation
("LTC") (OTC: LTHU) announced today its new product line of lithium
iron phosphate (LiFePO4) cells, the largest cells of their kind in
the world. This is the answer the automotive industry has been
searching for.
"The technology we can offer the automotive industry today is
unmatched by any other battery power solution on the market,"
commented Dr. Klaus Brandt, executive vice president of LTC and
managing director of LTC subsidiary GAIA Akkumulatorenwerke (GAIA).
"Others have been estimating up to a year to deliver the technology
we are proud to make available today. We have proven the superiority
of our technology in the past, and with the iron phosphate product we
have raised the bar even further."
LTC, a global provider of large lithium-ion rechargeable power
solutions has focused solely on the development and production of
large format lithium-ion batteries for more than twenty years. Unlike
others, our advanced cells use LiFePO4 licensed technology, developed
by Prof. John Goodenough with the University of Texas and supplied by
Phostech; this chemistry coupled with the company's innovative end-to-
end manufacturing processes and proprietary design, packaging and
assembly techniques, allow LTC to provide high performance cells
unmatched by any other product.
"Batteries made of LTC's cells can provide 3000 charging cycles,
which would be able to do 150,000 miles to 80% capacity for a 100 km
or 60 mile all electric range plug in hybrid, which no other
technology can claim," said Dr. Andrew Frank, Professor, Mechanical
and Aeronautical Engineering at the University of California, Davis .
"The new cells from LTC provide improved safety with the iron
phosphate chemistry while delivering the impeccable performance they
are known for, which is what the auto makers have been in search of;
this is a Company that is seriously committed to making hybrid, plug-
in hybrid and electric vehicles an affordable reality for the consumer."
LTC�s large format technology allows for the development of safer
battery systems with a significantly lower number of cells. The
weight of the battery is decreased while performance and safety
monitoring capabilities are increased. The battery management system
(BMS) is more precise monitoring fewer cells, keeping them in balance
for best performance and preventing damage to the battery due to over
voltage, under voltage, over temperature and short circuit.
The Company�s new product line offers cells ranging from 6 Ah to 35
Ah. Further statistics will be discussed at an expo of LTC�s breadth
of power solution on May 23rd in New York City.
http://www.lithiumtech.com/pr51407.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there some similar way to signal the charger to start the timer sequence?
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Evan Tuer wronte:
>
> >"Shorting pin 17 to ground will prevent the charger from putting out
> power.
>
> Evan, on a PFC-20 or PFC-30, you can easily turn off the charger output by
> putting around 4.5V on pin 2 of the external regbus connector. Something
> like this (Rich, correct me if I'm wrong here):
>
> Pin 1 (+5V)---+
> |
> \ SW1
> |
> >
> > R1 1K
> >
> |
> Pin 2---------+
> |
> >
> > R2 10K
> >
> |
> Pin 4 (Gnd)---+
>
> Close SW1, and pin 2 sees over 4.5V. This is the same as the regbus
> telling the charger to go into thermal cutback.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider -
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fwded
Subject: Gravitational Propulsion, Re: Group Update, Solar Powered
Craft, Security concerns.
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 00:16:22 -0000
This is just to announce that the solar powered craft mentioned in the
below post has made the journey and actually proved the great potential
of use of solar power in ocean going vessels, Here is a link to a news
story about the voyage;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18571845/
Also if you go to the link below about the craft there are new updates
that bring all up to speed on this story. This is a proof of concept
that points in many directions, on Earth, and hopefully on into space as
well, as the conversion of electrical energy into propulsive force in
space is demonstrated. Wonderful. The Sun shines on us all. The best
things in life are free...
Mystery B-)
_________________________________________________________________
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED],
"mysterygravity" [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
GRAVITATIONAL PROPULSION GROUP UPDATE : 1
As promised, a short update on group activities, however keeping with
confidential nature of some of the members requests, will leave some of
the update to each person's private review of records in posts and
links. Quiet Acknowledge...
First, in our files section is a record of some of the posts of earlier
incarnations of this group. Included in these records is a partial copy
of some of the post " The Time To Build a Ship Has Come." , Well someone
has, at least partially built such a craft !!! Yes a Solar Powered
Vessel is going to attempt a first Solar Powered crossing of the "great
sea". Here is a link to the mission;
http://www.transatlantic21.ch/index.php?id=106&L=1
This is a fully independent mission, with no connection to our group,
and does not incorporate the air tight modular, and
alternative propulsion systems, but will if a success, demonstrate solar
potential of craft propulsion concepts, independent of outside
introduction of fuel. This is of interest, and wish them great success
in their venture. Also, as part of our update is a focus on security
issues, and has been mentioned before, this organization to help web
sites under muffling tactic application of the internet laws;
http://www.chillingeffects.org/about
I want to further add this recent blog on tactics to use various minor
program tags to trace every movement of everyone on the internet, this
really effects every member here and anyone using a public
email address, the most vital parts are well into the blog;
http://www.mukund.org/blog/101/
I will shortly be announcing a new angle. Also wanted to review the
small work /post on inertia, that includes the short Inertia Video
I made on;
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gravitationalpropulsionstevenson/message/16
Perhaps of most import is to repeat the idea of private review of our
records, as you will, and a reminder of our PBWiki and the movement of
many of our Data files there at;
http://gravitationalpropulsionstevenson.pbwiki.com/Research
I know I am leaving much out, but it is needed to be thus at this time.
There are clues tho. Oh I appreciate any feedback on the Mad Scientist
Radio Station. To understand the concept , there is a post at ;
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gravitationalpropulsionstevenson/message/14
But if you want to just rush in and check it out without warning, go
to;
http://music.yahoo.com/lc/?rt=0&rp1=0&rp2=182646384
(Hint, it helps to hold down your Ctrl Key) Good Luck, LOL.
Well more than enough for now, don't want to bore you with details, you
can go as far as you wish, (upon a star).
Mystery
__._,_.___
Gravitational Propulsion, Gravity, Energy, Space, Time, Science,Mass,
Stevenson, Unified Theory, Mystery
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18571845/
See picture on the website too.
Updated: 1:14 p.m. ET May 9, 2007
Green Machines
Solar boat completes Atlantic crossing
Citing 'liberating journey,' skipper expects shift in ocean travel
Dylan Cross / AFP/Getty Images
Powered by solar panels atop its awning, the "sun21" approaches
Manhattan on Tuesday, ending the crossing that made it the first
solar-powered boat to navigate the Atlantic.
MSNBC staff and news service reports
Five months and more than 7,000 miles later, a Swiss-built solar vessel
has completed the first sun-powered crossing of the Atlantic.
Dubbed "sun21," the catamaran reached North Cove Marina in New York
City on Tuesday.
The 46-foot boat produced 2,000 kilowatt hours of solar energy during
its voyage and "not one drop of oil," the Switzerland-based group
transatlantic21, which sponsored the crossing, said in a statement.
"This proves that in our modern society it is indeed possible to travel
the world efficiently and still safeguard the environment," said the
boat's skipper, Michel Thonney. "This has been a liberating journey and
one which I believe will transform the way we approach travel on our
oceans, seas and waterways."
The crew left Chipiona, Spain, on Dec. 3 and stopped on the Caribbean
island of Martinique before traveling along the U.S. East Coast to New
York.
New York was chosen to complete the voyage because it is also the site
of a first annual World Clean Energy Awards sponsored by transatlantic21
and two other Swiss groups.
"Unlike other awards programs, the World Clean Energy Awards recognizes
innovation in action, as opposed to innovation on the drawing board,"
transatlantic21 stated. "Sun21 serves as the shining example of clean
energy applications in practice."
© 2007 MSNBC InteractiveThe Associated Press contributed to this
report.
More from Green Machines
- Grape idea: Seeds as cooking oil, then car fuel
- Could shampoo make better solar panels?
- N.Y. City gets solar-powered carts
- A cleaner environment... through beer
- Boeing, Virgin to develop biofuel
- Alternative-fuel cars star at China show
- Turbines in N.Y. East River create power
- Corncob helps with natural gas vehicles
- Hawaii tries to tap wind, solar
[0] BACK TO HOMEPAGE
[1] BUSINESS
[2] SPORTS
[3] U.S.NEWS
[4] WORLD NEWS
[5] POLITICS
[6] TECH & SCIENCE
[7] ENTERTAINMENT
[8] HEALTH
[9] TRAVEL
[-] TODAY SHOW
# Top
* Bottom
MSN Privacy . Legal © 2007 MSNBC.com
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Shawn,
I may have missed the post, do you have any more
details on the 'Perm motors' you're using on this
bike?
Thanks,
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The Lawless AGNS bike is almost back together and
> ready for a shot at
> the 144 volt NEDRA motorcycle record on Wednesday
> night.
> Looks like it's back to typical Cleveland weather ,
> (mid 50's and a
> chance of rain forecast). New Perm motors are in
> place. I tuned them
> on the test bench this morning slightly different
> than before. I'll
> try not to get so greedy with the motor voltage this
> time. We're
> making some charging changes as well. Hopefully all
> of this leads to
> the "as yet to be obtained" 100 mph run and a bit
> closer to the 12's. I
> was looking at the NEDRA motorcycle records today
> and it just struck me
> how impressive one of them is. In 2004 Duane Gergich
> ran a 12.49 at
> 100.7 mph. on 156 volts! That is not only darn quick
> for any bike but
> is second overall to the Killacycle at less than
> half the voltage! I
> think we have our work cut out for us on that one.
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
> more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod,
The motors we are using came from Germany. Part # PMG132.
www.perm-motors.de. They are very well built and rather beautiful
inside.
They are lower in torque and don't have the same speed and shaft
adjustability as the Lemco's but I am very impressed with them.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: AGNS has new motors
Hello Shawn,
I may have missed the post, do you have any more
details on the 'Perm motors' you're using on this
bike?
Thanks,
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Lawless AGNS bike is almost back together and
ready for a shot at
the 144 volt NEDRA motorcycle record on Wednesday
night.
Looks like it's back to typical Cleveland weather ,
(mid 50's and a
chance of rain forecast). New Perm motors are in
place. I tuned them
on the test bench this morning slightly different
than before. I'll
try not to get so greedy with the motor voltage this
time. We're
making some charging changes as well. Hopefully all
of this leads to
the "as yet to be obtained" 100 mph run and a bit
closer to the 12's. I
was looking at the NEDRA motorcycle records today
and it just struck me
how impressive one of them is. In 2004 Duane Gergich
ran a 12.49 at
100.7 mph. on 156 volts! That is not only darn quick
for any bike but
is second overall to the Killacycle at less than
half the voltage! I
think we have our work cut out for us on that one.
Shawn Lawless
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I ... heard a ... blurb about a news segment supposed to happen on WGN
news tonight during the 9pm (Central) newscast.
Here it is from the WGN website:
http://wgntv.trb.com/news/local/coverstory/wgntv-news-051407coupes,0,7832522.story
Skip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That link did not come up for me, but I found these
from the part number you listed,
http://www.perm-motor.de/pm_pdf/pmg_132_d.pdf
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/ki-pmg132-hp.htm
http://www.enigmaindustries.com/PMG_132/PMG_132.htm
The last link provides the most info for me.
It is similar to an Etek motor with higher torque
constant.
When I read your post last week about fireballing I
assumed that you de-magnetized the motor (when the
magnets are pushed to the limit the magnet has lower
or minimal strength and the resulting motor winding
looks like a short circuit). Hopefully this didn't
take place with your motor, maybe you could let us
know if the original is still alive? I'm guessing
this has high power Neodymium magnets that are
difficult to demag except for guys like you and
Wayland.
Good luck on the Wednesday run!!!
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Rod,
>
> The motors we are using came from Germany. Part #
> PMG132.
> www.perm-motors.de. They are very well built and
> rather beautiful
> inside.
> They are lower in torque and don't have the same
> speed and shaft
> adjustability as the Lemco's but I am very impressed
> with them.
>
> Shawn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 9:11 PM
> Subject: Re: AGNS has new motors
>
> Hello Shawn,
> I may have missed the post, do you have any more
> details on the 'Perm motors' you're using on this
> bike?
> Thanks,
> Rod
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > The Lawless AGNS bike is almost back together and
> > ready for a shot at
> > the 144 volt NEDRA motorcycle record on Wednesday
> > night.
> > Looks like it's back to typical Cleveland weather
> ,
> > (mid 50's and a
> > chance of rain forecast). New Perm motors are in
> > place. I tuned them
> > on the test bench this morning slightly different
> > than before. I'll
> > try not to get so greedy with the motor voltage
> this
> > time. We're
> > making some charging changes as well. Hopefully
> all
> > of this leads to
> > the "as yet to be obtained" 100 mph run and a bit
> > closer to the 12's. I
> > was looking at the NEDRA motorcycle records today
> > and it just struck me
> > how impressive one of them is. In 2004 Duane
> Gergich
> > ran a 12.49 at
> > 100.7 mph. on 156 volts! That is not only darn
> quick
> > for any bike but
> > is second overall to the Killacycle at less than
> > half the voltage! I
> > think we have our work cut out for us on that one.
> >
> > Shawn Lawless
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
> > more about what's free
> > from AOL at AOL.com.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
> more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was listening to WBEZ here in Chicago this evening and heard a sponsorship
blurb about a news segment supposed to happen on WGN news tonight during the
9pm (Central) newscast. That's all I heard. I don't know if WGN is just
Chicago or if it's still got a nationwide cable reach. Hopefully someone
with a TiVo can pick it up...
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lots of pictures!
http://www.transatlantic21.org/
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tehben> I don't know how this compares to other lithium batteries but If
Tehben> you got 90 of their 120 Ah HE-852050 3.6v cells you would have a
Tehben> 324v 120ah 500lb battery pack!!
I haven't been on this list that long (just a couple months), but it seems
to me that during that time there has been a spate of announcements about
higher capacity batteries. Maybe it's all vapor streaming out of PR
departments in the wake of all the media attention Tesla has received, but
there seems to be stuff going on in a number of different areas. If they
keep it up GM is going to run out of excuses for not producing the Chevy
Volt... ;-)
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod,
Both motors were toast last Wednesday night. Very, very, burnt toast.
We'll turn down the knob on the toaster this week and see if we can
brown them just right.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: AGNS has new motors
That link did not come up for me, but I found these
from the part number you listed,
http://www.perm-motor.de/pm_pdf/pmg_132_d.pdf
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/ki-pmg132-hp.htm
http://www.enigmaindustries.com/PMG_132/PMG_132.htm
The last link provides the most info for me.
It is similar to an Etek motor with higher torque
constant.
When I read your post last week about fireballing I
assumed that you de-magnetized the motor (when the
magnets are pushed to the limit the magnet has lower
or minimal strength and the resulting motor winding
looks like a short circuit). Hopefully this didn't
take place with your motor, maybe you could let us
know if the original is still alive? I'm guessing
this has high power Neodymium magnets that are
difficult to demag except for guys like you and
Wayland.
Good luck on the Wednesday run!!!
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Rod,
The motors we are using came from Germany. Part #
PMG132.
www.perm-motors.de. They are very well built and
rather beautiful
inside.
They are lower in torque and don't have the same
speed and shaft
adjustability as the Lemco's but I am very impressed
with them.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: AGNS has new motors
Hello Shawn,
I may have missed the post, do you have any more
details on the 'Perm motors' you're using on this
bike?
Thanks,
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The Lawless AGNS bike is almost back together and
> ready for a shot at
> the 144 volt NEDRA motorcycle record on Wednesday
> night.
> Looks like it's back to typical Cleveland weather
,
> (mid 50's and a
> chance of rain forecast). New Perm motors are in
> place. I tuned them
> on the test bench this morning slightly different
> than before. I'll
> try not to get so greedy with the motor voltage
this
> time. We're
> making some charging changes as well. Hopefully
all
> of this leads to
> the "as yet to be obtained" 100 mph run and a bit
> closer to the 12's. I
> was looking at the NEDRA motorcycle records today
> and it just struck me
> how impressive one of them is. In 2004 Duane
Gergich
> ran a 12.49 at
> 100.7 mph. on 156 volts! That is not only darn
quick
> for any bike but
> is second overall to the Killacycle at less than
> half the voltage! I
> think we have our work cut out for us on that one.
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> the conversion of electrical energy into propulsive force in
> space is demonstrated.
on which link ?
> _________________________________________________________________
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED],
>
> http://www.transatlantic21.ch/index.php?id=106&L=1
>
> http://www.chillingeffects.org/about
>
> http://www.mukund.org/blog/101/
>
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gravitationalpropulsionstevenson/message/
16
> http://gravitationalpropulsionstevenson.pbwiki.com/Research
>
>
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gravitationalpropulsionstevenson/message/
14
>
> http://music.yahoo.com/lc/?rt=0&rp1=0&rp2=182646384
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--- Begin Message ---
Even more important is the internal resistance of the caps.
Not only will high internal resistance heat up the caps
and literally *BLOW* them up (shooting cooking electrolyte
and other guts in all directions) but also for EV use you
need a high current, else the cap is dead weight and does
not add any benefit.
One example:
If you have an EV that you like to propel at 120V, 1000A
and your batteries have 4 milliOhm internal resistance per
12V battery (typical value of decent lead-acids) then
the pack will sag by (0.004 x 10 x 1000) = 40V.
(0.004 Ohm; 10x that resistance from series string and
1000 Amp through that 0.04 Ohm is 40V)
So, you get only 80V instead of 120V.
If you add a single string of capacitors in parallel,
which have also 4 milliOhm and are nominally 12V, then
you have two equal resistors, so the total internal
resistance halves and the pack + capacitors will only
sag by 20V iso 40V from the pack alone.
However, it depends on the capacitance how long it takes
until the caps have discharged significantly and the batteries
are taking the full current again, so the gain is highest
in the first few seconds.
This is contra the need for power, especially voltage, as
most EVs can live with a low pack voltage at startup, as
the motor also requires a low voltage; high voltage is
needed for the end of the run, when the motor is reaching
the max battery voltage and loses traction (flattening
the acceleration curve).
So, in a vehicle like for example Zombie it could make
a difference if the ultracaps were not engaged during
the series operation and also not during the first part
of the parallel operation, until the moment that the
Zilla starts to go out of motor current limit due to
the rising back EMF and the sagging battery voltage.
If a heavy duty (solid state) control can engage the
capacitors, still charged to the original starting voltage
of the batteries, then the last seconds of the run could be
much quicker from the higher available voltage.
Of course the sagging batteries will also suck up a
good deal of the charge from the capacitors, but
giving the batteries a boost during the run could
make them run much stronger for a few moments.
The type of solid state control can be a SCR capable
of carrying kiloAmp currents.
It will automatically disengage when the caps reach
the same voltage level of the batteries, at the end
of the run.
The risk is an increase in brush-comm plasma balls from
the increased voltage across the motor...
Maybe strong magnetic blowout circuits on both sides
of each brush are needed, that guide any plasma
(= current through air) away from the brushes and comm,
so its path is lenghened and interrupted and it
extinguishes by itself. Same thing as done on DC breakers
and some contactors.
Discharge of caps can be calculated with formula:
I x t = dV x C
Current(Amp) x time(sec) = change in potential(Volt) x Capacitance(F)
For example 1000A over 10s causes a voltage drop of 20V in 500F.
In your case, using 80F 12V capacitors, the resulting series
connected string has 8F, so at a discharge rate of 1000A they
would drop 125V per second. That means that you will only notice
an effect from these capacitors in the first 1/4 second.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:39 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Using Audio Capacitors for Dragsters
"one amp for one sec at one volt" is a joule- a unit of energy, not
capacitance.
A 1 Farad capacitor drops at a rate of one volt per sec when providing a
current of one amp.
We are more used to seeing the "decay" curve which happens when you put a
resistive load on it- as the voltage drops, the current drops, so the
capacitor's voltage change flattens out. This is simply a consequence of
the above rule combined with Ohm's Law: current=voltage/resistance.
It is important to see the limits of how much of a cap's voltage is usable.
For example, if your motor will only produce a satisfactory speed or
acceleration with a source voltage of 80V or more, and you charge it from a
120V battery, only the capacity from 120V to 80V is usable.
In attempts to stiffen a battery pack, you might have a situation where your
120V pack sags to 90V under a hard acceleration and you get the idea that
you want to limit the sag to 110V by putting a big cap in parallel. The
prob there is that the cap's energy is only used when voltage changes.
There's only using 16% of the cap's energy stored between 120V and 110V.
Unfortunately, capacitive storage takes quite a lot of volume, weight,
expense, and a whole lot of little interconnects so trying to build in that
much capacity while only being able to use the top 16% may mean it's
completely impractical without a change in technology such as Maxwell
Ultracaps, although even those are still too expensive to justify their use.
Danny
Christopher Robison wrote:
>On Mon, May 14, 2007 4:42 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>>Just wanted to ask cause I don't quite understand some of the electric
>>engineering stuff yet - I did a quick check to understand how much
>>energy a Farad is, and it's listed as an ampere-second. So using that,
>>wouldn't it take 10,000 Farads to put out a 1000 amps for 10 seconds?
>>
>>
>
>A farad is one ampere for one second at one volt. I should let more
>knowledgeable people than myself respond to this, but I think this
>would be true only if your load were able to draw a continuous 1000
>amps, regardless of the cap voltage which declines linearly during
>discharge. In practice in an EV, the current from your batteries or cap
>bank would start out low, approaching motor amps as you increase speed.
>(Horsepower, and therefore battery current, increases with speed,
>assuming relatively constant torque).
>
>
>
>
>>Why is it the capacity goes down when they are put in series?
>>
>>
>
>Google for "capacitors in series". For example, this page (the first
>hit) has a good explanation:
>
>www.play-hookey.com/dc_theory/series_capacitors.html
>
>
>
>
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My wife's '06 Saturn Vue uses the same type of system. It works well
from what we've seen but I haven't taken it apart or traced the wires
to determine adaptability.
Trot, the observant, fox...
On 5/14/07, Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yes- the motor is just below the steering wheel and very small. On
May 14, 2007, at 3:09 PM, Tehben Dean wrote:
> So is it geared rather that hydraulic?
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
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----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ev List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 9:10 PM
Subject: Solar boat completes Atlantic crossing - Green Machines - MSNBC.com
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18571845/
> See picture on the website too.
>
> Updated: 1:14 p.m. ET May 9, 2007
>
> Green Machines
>
> Solar boat completes Atlantic crossing
>
> Citing 'liberating journey,' skipper expects shift in ocean travel
>
> Dylan Cross / AFP/Getty Images
>
> Powered by solar panels atop its awning, the "sun21" approaches
> Manhattan on Tuesday, ending the crossing that made it the first
> solar-powered boat to navigate the Atlantic.
> Hi EVerybody;
Not to diss this guy, but had he a clipper ship, or just a good SAIL
boat, cat, if you will, he woulda been here MONTHS ago. Or I believe a 12
day sailing record STILL stands, not sure if it was a clipper or fancy
Catamaran? I think ROWING guyz have made better time?
> MSNBC staff and news service reports
>
> Five months and more than 7,000 miles later, a Swiss-built solar vessel
> has completed the first sun-powered crossing of the Atlantic.
> 7k miles, did he take the scenic route<G>?Or global warming has
expanded the Atlantic? Thought it was about 2500 miles USA to Europe, the
way White Star and Cunard go?
> Dubbed "sun21," the catamaran reached North Cove Marina in New York
> City on Tuesday.
>
> The 46-foot boat produced 2,000 kilowatt hours of solar energy during
> its voyage and "not one drop of oil," the Switzerland-based group
> transatlantic21, which sponsored the crossing, said in a statement.
Taint much! Run the hairdryer or Micro Wave and yur dead in the
water!
Did he just pull over at night, like the Titanic shoulda?
> "This proves that in our modern society it is indeed possible to travel
> the world efficiently and still safeguard the environment," said the
> boat's skipper, Michel Thonney. "This has been a liberating journey and
> one which I believe will transform the way we approach travel on our
> oceans, seas and waterways."
> Oh I don't think so<g>!Bringing back modern Clipper ships would be an
estetic joy, and a hellova lot faster as wind blows 24/7! As a clipper
sails it could use one of Jerry Dycuss' power generating turbines to keep
the lights and fridge going? Maybe painting the Hindenberg 2 with solar
panels, HUGH surface area here, maybe enough to run her motors?Maybe she
would hafta fire up her Bio-Diseasels at sundown, though? Airships coming
back? Nice thought.NYC Germany in two daze, again?
> The crew left Chipiona, Spain, on Dec. 3 and stopped on the Caribbean
> island of Martinique before traveling along the U.S. East Coast to New
> York.
>
> New York was chosen to complete the voyage because it is also the site
> of a first annual World Clean Energy Awards sponsored by transatlantic21
> and two other Swiss groups.
>
> "Unlike other awards programs, the World Clean Energy Awards recognizes
> innovation in action, as opposed to innovation on the drawing board,"
> transatlantic21 stated. "Sun21 serves as the shining example of clean
> energy applications in practice."
> Hey! Good start, like our training wheel hybrids, this could be our
water wings, or life jackets?
Sea Ya!
Bob..........sailin' a Sunfish!
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: magnetic field in EV car? Never ending story!
> > Ah! Yeah! My radio NEVER worked worth a shit in the EV anyhow. But I
> > don't feel at any loss as my Cassette Victrola record tapes work
> > just FINE.
> > I guess CD's work too, but haven't made any yet. They say you can BUY
> > them,nowadaze, IF there was anything I would WANT to buy?
>
>
>
> CD's!! man you are in the dark ages:D ... Have you heard of something
> called iPod?
>
> LOL
> Tehben
> Hah! I have a big collection of 78's the big bakelite records that were
around when the Titanic went down<g>! That format lasted for almost 60
years! And you can STILL access data(Listen) to them, nowadaze. I pod? Shi
pod, it's junk when the Badd-ery dies!Formats come an' go I guess I could
load an I pod with Victrola records? And will my Sony Handi Cam vid tapes
play in 10-30 years or will we hafta keep transfering the pogram to the
media of the moment?
Seeya at 78
Bob
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Hey EVerybody;
Can I pirate this thread on controllers with a few quick questions? In a
car with a Curtis , was set up with a 72-120 volt 1221 type with a 5 k
potbox setup, can I drop a Raptur in there? A Rapter that works normally
with the solenoid plunger setup. Would it work, or care, on a 5 k
pot?Instead?
On Altraxing a Electrac, I'm not sure IF the Alltrax controller NEEDS an
18volt feed?When ya strip out ALL the trax wiring and start anew, do ya need
a tapoff for the CONTROLLER, as well as the lift motor?I saw the testing
diagram, in the instructions about programing it with 2 9 volt batteri in
series. Makes ya wonder?
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: magnetic field in EV car?
> There are significant natural electrical fields.
> Additionally very recently within the last few decades the earth's
> magnetic poles have begun to dramatically diminish to the point
> navigation equipment must take it into account. (Periodically earths
> poles flip.)
>
> Also it is interesting that all life on earth with a brain has evolved a
> primary brain frequency similiar to the primary range of the schuman
> resonance around 7 to 8 hz - not surprising since all life evolved in
> this field.
>
> A description from the net.
>
> What is a Schumann Resonance?
>
> Believe it or not, the Earth behaves like an enormous electric circuit.
Hi EVerybody;
Wasen't years ago, a sorta hypothetical question, as to IF you could
throw a cable down from a Space Shuttle in geo syncronous orbit(Parked) tie
it down good and just tap off the power? Seems like one of the scientificky
Mags suggested it? DOING this could be tricky? Maybe a Halliberton Project
after the war? HOW could you get it up there from the ground? Duh! Simple!
Tie it to the space shuttle<g>! And you could reel it in when it's time was
due! But the field of the rotating Earth would do good things?Of course it
could be a menace to navigation for Air ships, planes and balloons?
Seeya
Bob
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