EV Digest 6887
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Solar tonneau cover
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) KillaCycle in American Motorcyclist magazine
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Solar tonneau cover
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Solar tonneau cover
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: EV achilles' heel
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: What batteries to try next?
by "David S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV achilles' heel
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
by jukka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) .57 modifier for LeadAcid, Is it the same for AGM's, Li-On, etc.
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: gas taxes...
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) New electric series production race car
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Fined for not paying gas tax.
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Aircraft Starter generator
by "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Anyone heard of these Li-Ion batteries - or using them?
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Towing an EV
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Aircraft Starter generator
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV achilles' heel
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Doers vs talkers, was Otmar is getting rich?
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Anyone heard of these Li-Ion batteries - or using them?
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV achilles' heel
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: New Zillch Controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I had a similar experience. A few years back I worked at JITC and I asked
if I could charge at work. They felt it was un fair to the other
employees to have DISA pay for my "fuel". I pointed out that DISA paid
for public transportation at some locations in order to reduce traffic and
parking lot congestion, but no dice (paying for the power was not an
option since DISA does have income and therefor has no way to account for
the cash)
However, they had a 10kw solar collector (stirling generator) that they
let me hook up to occasionally. Since this was a NREL test bed, they
weren't paying for the electricity. The kicker was that they had the
generator hooked up to the main power and were using it anyway, so
electrically it didn't make a difference if I plugged in at the parking
lot or the base of the collector, put politically I had to plug in at the
collector.
> That would work. I remember when I worked at a government research
> job, that I asked if I could charge my EV at work (I didn't have one
> at the time, but was going to buy one). They said no plugging into
> the building, but we had a bunch of PV experiments sitting around not
> powering anything that I could plug into. That would be fine, since
> the government didn't own the electricity from those.... ended up
> getting laid off instead of buying the EV then, but I still thought it
> was funny that I was allowed to use solar power to charge it, but not
> coal power.
>
> Z
>
> On 6/13/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I have seen some people who park a solar array at work on a trailer that
>> they plug into when they get there. That way the 8 hours the car sits
>> in the parking lot it is charged from the array.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 14:30
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: Solar tonneau cover
>>
>> The problem with charging directly from solar is that you can only
>> charge when it is sunny. And if you are NOT charging when it is sunny,
>> you are wasting solar electricity that you paid for....
>>
>> If the utility allows you to connect, that system will be way cheaper.
>> If they don't, then you may have to design a system that charges the
>> car directly from solar, and plan on it being at home during the day
>> instead of charging at night.
>>
>> Z
>>
>> On 6/13/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Mark,
>> >
>> > With the panels on your house, do you have the 240V hooked
>> > directly to your pack or do you make AC and then power a charger with
>> > that? How long does it take to charge your EV with it?
>> >
>> > jody
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > On Behalf Of Mark Hastings
>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 13:42
>> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> > Subject: Re: Solar tonneau cover
>> >
>> > Not sure if this is currently made and I'm sure it isn't the only way
>> > but has some good info.
>> > http://cafeelectric.com/SolarCharge/index.html.
>> >
>> >
>> > --- Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I know this will not increase range dramatically but I was wondering
>>
>> > > if you were to put a solar array on the tonneau cover of your truck
>> > > how would you charge the pack? Would you make it the same voltage as
>>
>> > > the pack and then just hook it to each end of the string so it was
>> > > feeding current to the battery or if you were driving to the motor?
>> > > Or would you need to plug it into a charger?
>> > >
>> > > Tehben
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's a wonderful picture and nice write-up of Killacycle in the latest AMA
magazine (July '07). Last paragraph: "The eerie thing? When Killacycle
launches, it's silent except for chain and tire noise."
And the whoops of the crowd! :)
____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel
and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It depends on wether or not you'd find the reduced accessory voltage
acceptable or not.
WIth a DC/DC your accessory voltage stays at the normal voltage that it
was using the ICE and alternator (14-15V), with just a solar panel it will
sag to about 11V under load. This means that you lights will be dimmer
and your wipers will run slower, etc.
> On a smaller scale, you could use a small 12V panel to charge an
> accessory battery so you don't have to charge it separately or use a
> DC/DC. Would this kind of system be effective?
>
> Brandon Kruger
> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
> http://cafepress.com/altfuel
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---
Marty Hewes wrote:
> But to get to my parents place and back, if I
> started the generator
> when I left and reduced battery use the whole way, I could
> probably use a generator well less than 5kW and still make
> the trip (since it's charging while I'm parked there and
> stopped at lights).
Something that hasn't come up yet in this iteration of the range
extender discussion is that if the genset is charging while you are
stopped at lights, etc., then you need to consider the acceptability of
the noise and vibration, etc. of the genset running possibly flat out
essentially the entire trip. Unless you spend much of the time stopped
the genset is unlikely to put much charge into the batteries (a 2min
stop will only allow about 0.6Ah into the battery at 20A, and anytime
the vehicle is in motion the genset output will largely or entirely go
toward offsetting the load rather than charging the battery).
This is particularly a consideration if you are not willing to put the
genset on a trailer instead of in the vehicle somewhere (I seem to
recall the trailer option being noted as unacceptable).
You also need to consider how you are going to connect the generator to
the battery. Most gensets provide an AC output, and probably the
slickest way to adapt this to the battery pack is to put one of Rich's
PFC chargers between the two. Set the current knob for the desired
amount of assistance and leave the voltage as for a normal charge.
Assuming a typical pack voltage in the ballpark of 120V, a PFC20 would
let you run the genset at a little over 50% output; a PFC50 (throttled
back) would let you run it flat out. (Many gensets aren't expected to be
run flat out for extended periods and will not last long used this way.)
The genset takes up space and payload in the EV, reducing the amount of
battery you can carry. Depending on the distance you need to go, the
inherent range of the vehicle, and how much energy it consumes, a 5kW
genset might well get you there. Only you can decide if the noise and
vibration that your otherwise silent EV gains from the onboard genset is
an acceptable compromise.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Who says you can't buy A123 batteries
http://www.buya123systems.com/prdeki.html
Contents:
- 6 High Power ANR26650M1 lithium ion cells, double tabbed
- Operation and String Assembly instructions
- Charge methods and specifications
$120 per developer kit.
The web site will prevent you from ordering 100 or more developer's kits at
a time but hey what kind of pack could I build with 594 of these things.
Developer Kit, ANR26650M1 High Power Lithium Ion Cells $110.00 * 99 =
$10,890.00
Too bad there are no kits for their new battery.
http://www.a123systems.com/newsite/index.php#/products/cells32series/
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--- Begin Message ---
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
The simple answer is: even GM thinks otherwise with their volt prototype.
first you don't want to have to do calculations before driving
somewhere which even requires you to know the distance a priori.
second, since LA EV range is quite limited a road trip would very
quickly exhaust your idea since the generator would have to be able to
provide almost all of it.
third, when you are going to have the extra complexity to compensate
for the current EV weakness, don't make another weakness. it has to be
able to go unlimited or it will be a constant worry for people.
fourth, this is where all the naysaying complacent stagnant
designer/supporters for b2b apps come screaming out from under the
bridge but I don't believe a 30kW combustion generator has to weigh
terribly much. fuel and catalyst included
I reiterate that a 250cc motorcycle motor can have the needed power
and at high rpm/phase velocity the electric generator can be quite
small I believe. vis a vis the tesla roadster motor (which can be
taken to further extremes). and there are other potentially lighter
possibilities such as turbines. I wouldn't be surprised if a 30kW
turbine/generator pair could be done under 1kg if high tech engineered
Dan
Oi... nice jab ;)
Yeah, I probably should do sexier work, but darn those pesky bills every
month.
Back OT, I never naysayed, I simply pointed out some numbers. You can
read them as "wow, I like those numbers", or "those numbers are
terrible". Depends on your point of view, I suppose. From a
range-extending one (like others posted) the idea might have merit as
long as one does not mind the price tag and pollution. $5000 is a
commodity price for 15KW, mass-produced and all, with good reliability.
I can only wonder what a one-off hotrod deal would cost.
Also, I'm terribly sorry, but I thought you guys were talking about
stuff people (i.e. most list members) might actually be able to do -
today - with what they could go buy. Not an engineering discussion for
future development. If that's the case, I'll butt out and leave the
speculation to those better equipped. An electrical and or mechanical
engineer I am definitely not.
(BTW, I still want to test how well a Honda EU2000 might extend my boats
electric range this summer. I'm not terribly hopeful, but who knows. I
got to buy one for the camping activities anyways)
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--- Begin Message ---
Geez..!
I've stopped at gas stations quite a few times for charge. To see how
far I can go after the conversion has been finished.
from all dozens of times they never even accepted money for it. :)
"we sell gas and toothbrushes, not electricity.."
I suppose it would be perfectly legal to charge me but no. But rarely I
need to charge for more than few kWh. I plan the routes before taking
the trip. (takes 30 sec in the back of brains). yes yes.. I admit. The
ICE warming outlets are all over here. I know 20 outles around my
commuting routes for a charge for free. Nearly every building has at
least one outlet outside for the heater.
Some times the clerks ask that how much the electricity will cost that I
will be charging. 2 hours with 3kW is the usual story. 60 euro
cents. Who cares..
So.. actually .. how many EVs you think you'll end up having in your
driving alleys ? Be realistic. 2-3 cases in a year. What a perfect time
for meeting a fellow EVer ! And if the same average Dan starts keeping
the car 5 days in a week theres a good chance for a deeper relationship
with other enthustiast. Don't you think ?
I've seen some coin operated electricity posts in market places. I have
a picture of it somewhere... I tried to find the manufacturer for it.
Bankrupt (a reference ?? :) Design could be available for free.
BUT.. how about if we just let the electrons run free for the cause ? It
would draw more media attention too if the word gets out. If it get's to
levels of good biz... that's all good news too.
I was thinking this same thing for a long time until I canhged to
Lions. So far the daily trips can't meet the 50+ kWhr batt packs.
Charging over night at home/office. That's it.
I came up with the idea of magnet strip membership card for all EV
assosiation members. The memebership DB from assosiation server would
verify the outlet. It would also work for other use like earning plus
points from local ev gear store and give some discounts for other shops.
All negotiable.
Simple embedded Linux systems that fit in the heating outlet case. They
usually are 20 x 30 x 25 cm (8" x 12" x 10" ?). Run the twisted pair
from the CPU to router on the internet side of the firewall. Pair it to
one or few independent servers in the net. And you gat a nearly free
service. I believe I could get even freaking sponsors to upkeep the DB
and HW required.
So what to gain with this all mambo-jambo-multimedia-BS ?
You can see online if it is in use or not. So I added this feature in
the BMS too. (1 nerd, 1 night, 1 gallon Cola). You could (if such posts
would be available) see the free charging posts from the vehicles touch
screen overlaid on the local maps with GPS locations. Just tab it and it
tells you the shortes route.
Hmm.. actually.. why would not the vehicle CPU do the verification over
net it self. That would make this even easier.. hmm.. hmmm...
Am I in la-la-land again ??.. damn!
-Jukka
Chip Gribben kirjoitti:
Years ago I went to a Shell station near my office to see how much they
would charge if I wanted to plug in. I had enough to make the round trip
of 25 miles but was looking for place to charge just in case.
I tried to explain that drawing 7 amps for about 4 hours would not cost
much if anything but the owner insisted on charging me by the battery
like they would if someone brought in a dead battery to be charged. That
was $35.00 per battery. So this guy wanted to charge me $560.00!!
Like I said, I tried all different ways till Sunday to say how much the
utility was charging per kWhr and it would end up being less then $1.00
if I set my charger at 7 amps for 4 hours.
Chip
On Jun 12, 2007, at 4:20 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: June 12, 2007 4:20:35 PM EDT
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
How about if you have your 12 volt battery charge at a gas station, they
charge you and the battery.
Roland
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--- Begin Message ---
Searched the archives and found this formula:
(Pack 20hr rate)x(Pack Voltage)x.57=Watthours
The above formula being related to Flooded Lead Acids.
Is this .57 modifier the same for all battery
technologies that can be used in EV packs? FLA, AGM,
NiMh, NiCd, Li-Ion, etc.?
IE: 210hr(20) x 120vdc x .57 = 14364 Whr, FLA
batteries
If not what is the modifier for determining the
battery pack's capacity for:
Spiral AGM's
Non Spiral AGM's
LA Gels
LiIon
NiMh
NiCd
etc....
Thanks in advance, :)
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LOL. I bet I would. ;)
(note: I don't like big government; I could go on, but I doubt you'd
appreciate it).
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http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06/12/lightning-car-co-to-use-altairnano-batteries-in-new-sports-car/
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This is outrageous. The government should be subsidizing alternative fuel
efforts and instead they're "keeping the playing field level". Greedy sick
bastards.
Driver ticketed for using biofuel
Vegetable oil sticks him with $1,000 fine
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/599471.html
Yes the article is biofuel but could be about any fuel including
electricity.
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--- Begin Message ---
So this is my project now a aircraft starter generator on a Geo metro
convertible
The motor is 400 amp at 300 volts permanent magnet..
So guys in lighting me .. What do I have to look forward to on my first EV
--
-----Original Message-------
From: John Wayland
Date: 6/12/2007 8:49:41 AM
>
I believe this. There are a lot of hills around here, some of them
Pretty steep, so yes, in our beautiful urban area (we are the only major
City in the USA with an extinct volcano within the city limits) regen is
A nice feature. HEL--LOW everyone...I've 'never' said I don't like
Regen! In fact, I think it's great.
In my first version of Blue Meanie, waaaay back in 1980, I used a
Primitive aircraft starter generator as the traction source. It was a
Very inefficient motor, and thus ran very hot all the time, but it was a
Versatile compound wound type beast with its selectable windings. In
Addition to having the acceleration power of the mighty series-wound
Motor within, you could also excite the shunt windings of its generator
Soul and get mondo regen, the kind that would try to through you through
The windshield if you got carried away! Some where in cyber space
there's my detailed post of a trip I took from my east Portland home
Westward across the city, up and over the steep Sylvan hills (6% grade
For nearly 4 miles), out to Beaverton where the car was put on charge
But because of time restraints (high output constant current PFC
Chargers didn't exist back then) it didn't get fully charged...then
Reverse the process back home. This was when my little Datsun ran at a
Heady 48 volts, folks, just 8 6V golf car batteries! Anyway...I barely
Made it up the west side grade to the summit of Sylvan hill as the
Batteries were exhausted from their not-so-great recharge...the car
Crawled to the top and was at a tepid human's walking gate as it rolled
Over the crest...whew! I kicked on full regen which held the car to a
Slow 15 mph or so down the hill, but hundreds of amps were jammed into
The poor abused batteries (my formative years, so give me a break for
Committing battricide). I could have coasted down the hill, but after
The lowest point as you re-enter Portland, there's a big ass bridge you
Have to transverse that arches high up and over the Willamette River
that's part of the freeway system that outs you onto I-84 East. Had I
Merely coasted, the car 'might' have had enough momentum to make it up
And over the bridge, but it surely would have died afterwards on the
L-o-n-g ramp that winds to the I-84 and I would have found myself stuck
Alongside the crazy freeway. However, because of the high current, long
Duration regen I employed, the car had a burst of power in its battery
Pack and I was able to make the ~ 9 mile trek (all a gradual uphill
Route) all the way back to my driveway! Yes, it was a 100% discharge,Thanks
for acknowledging this. Yes, I know I'm right about it. I have
Logged too many miles behind the wheel of EV1s to not know this, and
Yes, I've even driven Solectria's vehicles (their twin rear motor
Pickups and unfortunately, their s-l-o-w Geo Metros).
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My brother showed me this Li-Ion battery website
today:
http://www.tekbattery.com/products.html
Scroll down to the two automotive versions.
Quote from the website:
"These lithium ion polymer batteries are different
than the dangerous lithium (post & chemical)
batteries. They are a "foam-like" nano technology
material that holds much more power density but cannot
catch fire and are far safer than other batteries."
M. Barkley
www.texomaev.com
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1135
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Towing an EV
Bob Rice wrote:
I towed my Rabbit all over hell and gone for YEARS! Just leave it in
neutral. Now a Corvair, that's another issue. I destroyed a Corvair
tranny by towing it in neutral, for about 1800 miles.
Was the Corvair an automatic? Many automatic transmissions do not like
being towed! They have no oil pump on the drive shaft, and so get no oil
circulation or lubrication.
Hi Lee, an' All;
No it was a standard. When I fired up the car AFTER towing it to FLA
with my 54 International School Bus camper it was grinding like hell.Guy I
later bought a used newer one thouight it had lube issues being towed from
Detoilet to FLA via NY. MAYBE it was just out of oil, thinking back?Had I
towed it in 4th I don't think I would have had an issue? Bus only went 50-60
mph, so the car went faster as an EV than being towed!
The Corvair manual transmission (like most manual transmissions) doesn't
have any issues with being towed in neutral; everything inside is spinning
just as it would be when driving. I towed my Corvair for thousands of
miles with no problems.
In Neutral, I guess?
Bob
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database:
269.8.15/847 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 9:42 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Amy, first congratulations on taking this first step.
And no your idea of a school team is not absurd. There
used to be lots of EV school teams at many of the high
schools here in Arizona back in the 90's when the
local power companies were funding those programs.
This is where I got the bug from.
First question. Does your school have an auto shop by
chance? I know these are increasingly rare but if it
does this will be a big help because it gives you
somewhere to put the car and work on it plus you'll
have tools available to use (just make sure you put
them back where you found them). If you have a shop
your first step would be to approach the shop teacher
and see if he would like to be involved in your
program so you'll be able to stay after class to work
on the car.
If you have neither of the above then you might see if
one of the science teachers or other technology
teachers will help with the team.
Funding will be the tricky part. As you mentioned
don't expect much from the school money wise. Go to
some local businesses and see what you can churn up,
also do contact your local power company. I'm not sure
what the situation is in Michigan, but here the power
companies have to be not for profit so when they were
funding us there were a few occasions where they
actually came to us needing to unload some money.
Don't expect to build a cutting edge car at first,
figure a realistic budget, we only received $5,000
each year but managed to produce working cars, this is
what your sponsors will want to see eventually.
And you do raise a good point, competitions will be a
big deal if there are any. As far as I know
unfortunately there aren't any more. Back in the day
we had the Electric Vehicle Technology Competitions
(EVTC..... yeah anyone remember them?) They had races
every couple of months and I can't remember how many
nights before the races we spent at school until
midnight or later to get a car running only so we
could wake up at 5am to load them up and drive to the
competition. This is where you might have to try and
get some other schools to take on the same project so
you will have some competition. Again I don't know
what the situation is in your part of the country.
As another thought, at the end of the power company
funding for race cars we for two years after received
funding as part of their "enviro-tech" project. The
stipulation was we had to build street legal vehicles
and let them be used for the general greater good.
Under this we started re-converting a car that we were
going to put in the schools fleet to make the trip to
the district office and back. We nearly had this
complete when all EV projects were pulled around 2002.
So if you have no competitions available think about
another route like this to go.
Best of luck with your team
Rick
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt fuel plates "ZEROGAS"
Glendale, AZ
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:13:38 -0400
> From: "Amy DeMaagd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Teenager with EV's on the brain
>
> Okay, I've been interested in alternative fuel
> vehicles for some time
> now, and would like to finally commit to building an
> EV. Despite being
> 17 and a girl, I am not a total moron. I grew up in
> a radical custom
> car/hot rod restoration shop, and I do have the
> business on board, so
> this is a thoroughly achievable goal, theoretically
> . Seeing as how I
> lack funding, I figured that there were three
> possible paths to take:
> meth lab, prostitution, or a school team. Now, I
> realize that the
> school team suggestion sounds absurd, but it's not
> about getting money
> from the school, it's about getting credibility from
> being backed by a
> community organization, so that people will believe
> they are
> sponsoring something, rather than just giving things
> to some hack
> group of teenagers. Anyways, I need to pitch this
> idea to my school,
> and was wondering if any of you had any resources
> for that, existing
> proposals, etc.
>
> Also, seeing as how the Tour De Sol is now defunct,
> and the EV
> Challenge folks seem to have considerately dropped
> off the face of the
> planet(I guess I shouldn't have expected much from
> them anyways, I am
> from Michigan, which is decidedly north of south.),
> are there any EV
> competitions around? The school would want to have
> more than an EV
> putting around town, they'd want some people to see
> it, they'd want
> some prestige. After all, the majority of the
> population of this town
> does happen to be cows, and I don't think they'd be
> too impressed,
> considering that they do some significant air
> pollution of their own.
>
> Without even having official backing from the
> school, we've managed to
> get a free MG Midget from an auto auction place,
> plus a 3 phase AC
> motor, and lithium ion batteries(scary, but
> exciting).
> Ahem, I do expect to need plenty of help in the
> future.
>
> I hope I'm not too obnoxious, and really look
> forward to getting some input.
> Thank you!
___________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
A lack of reasonably priced controllers : )
overpriced rechargers
overpriced DCDC
it'll be great :)
Phelps wrote:
So this is my project now a aircraft starter generator on a Geo metro
convertible
The motor is 400 amp at 300 volts permanent magnet..
So guys in lighting me .. What do I have to look forward to on my first EV
--
-----Original Message-------
From: John Wayland
Date: 6/12/2007 8:49:41 AM
I believe this. There are a lot of hills around here, some of them
Pretty steep, so yes, in our beautiful urban area (we are the only major
City in the USA with an extinct volcano within the city limits) regen is
A nice feature. HEL--LOW everyone...I've 'never' said I don't like
Regen! In fact, I think it's great.
In my first version of Blue Meanie, waaaay back in 1980, I used a
Primitive aircraft starter generator as the traction source. It was a
Very inefficient motor, and thus ran very hot all the time, but it was a
Versatile compound wound type beast with its selectable windings. In
Addition to having the acceleration power of the mighty series-wound
Motor within, you could also excite the shunt windings of its generator
Soul and get mondo regen, the kind that would try to through you through
The windshield if you got carried away! Some where in cyber space
there's my detailed post of a trip I took from my east Portland home
Westward across the city, up and over the steep Sylvan hills (6% grade
For nearly 4 miles), out to Beaverton where the car was put on charge
But because of time restraints (high output constant current PFC
Chargers didn't exist back then) it didn't get fully charged...then
Reverse the process back home. This was when my little Datsun ran at a
Heady 48 volts, folks, just 8 6V golf car batteries! Anyway...I barely
Made it up the west side grade to the summit of Sylvan hill as the
Batteries were exhausted from their not-so-great recharge...the car
Crawled to the top and was at a tepid human's walking gate as it rolled
Over the crest...whew! I kicked on full regen which held the car to a
Slow 15 mph or so down the hill, but hundreds of amps were jammed into
The poor abused batteries (my formative years, so give me a break for
Committing battricide). I could have coasted down the hill, but after
The lowest point as you re-enter Portland, there's a big ass bridge you
Have to transverse that arches high up and over the Willamette River
that's part of the freeway system that outs you onto I-84 East. Had I
Merely coasted, the car 'might' have had enough momentum to make it up
And over the bridge, but it surely would have died afterwards on the
L-o-n-g ramp that winds to the I-84 and I would have found myself stuck
Alongside the crazy freeway. However, because of the high current, long
Duration regen I employed, the car had a burst of power in its battery
Pack and I was able to make the ~ 9 mile trek (all a gradual uphill
Route) all the way back to my driveway! Yes, it was a 100% discharge,Thanks
for acknowledging this. Yes, I know I'm right about it. I have
Logged too many miles behind the wheel of EV1s to not know this, and
Yes, I've even driven Solectria's vehicles (their twin rear motor
Pickups and unfortunately, their s-l-o-w Geo Metros).
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Depends on what you define as pollution. CO2 is roughly proportional
to gasoline usage -- regardless of what other nasty crap the engine is
producing.
This is true, and with the typical 5kw generator you'd only produce 200
times as much pollution as driving a Hummer for the same distance. If
you're comfortable with that, then go for it.
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--- Begin Message ---
On Jun 13, 2007, at 3:15 PM, Rich Rudman wrote:
Feeding trolls???
or doing a little tenderizing of thier hides???
I just kill-filed the little troll last evening. The list seems much
better today - no shrieking idiot diluting actual content (like
people looking to learn about EVs or wanting help with their project,
good answers on the list for the same, or fun EV adventures.)
Have a nice day ;-)
Paul "neon" G.
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never heard of them but dang they are hideously expensive
more than 300k$ for a pack the size in the tesla roadster (based on
their 'biggest' automotive)
lithiums are normally overpriced by a factor 10 but this one managed a
factor 100
Dan
Michael Barkley wrote:
My brother showed me this Li-Ion battery website
today:
http://www.tekbattery.com/products.html
Scroll down to the two automotive versions.
Quote from the website:
"These lithium ion polymer batteries are different
than the dangerous lithium (post & chemical)
batteries. They are a "foam-like" nano technology
material that holds much more power density but cannot
catch fire and are far safer than other batteries."
M. Barkley
www.texomaev.com
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1135
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: EV achilles' heel
pusher trailer seems insane to me
Hi Dan;
Yeah! Ya have a good point. But they are handy for that occasional 2000
mile trip to see Aunt Tilly in Toledo and you are in Wenachee, Washington.
You wouldn't use the damn thing for day to day trips that you use an EV
for.It could be a Club thing, shared for the need to use basis?Maybe cheaper
than renting a car, Amtrak, or Jet Blue, IF ya stop off and see other
Listers along the way?
A EV can be your ONLY car?
Sea Ya
Bob
Bob Rice wrote:
Hi Dan;
Some guys have used the front clip of a front wheel drive small
automatic car, setup like a trailer as a "pusher" setup. Tricky stuff
here is the controlling it from the EV cockpit. Ed Sharky out in CA did a
very neat VW Rabbit one as well as a clipped off VW Bug rear end. I guess
any reasonable small car can play, if yur handy setting it up like a
trailer, best as a FWD one, then you have all the emmissions crap in
place, so you are still a good clean citizen?
Seeya
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
It's really great that more amps can fit in a smaller space Rich. It makes
the dream of a quick charging motorcycle more of a reality. Just 200 pounds
of Lithium, Zilla and a PFC would make a very practical commute vehicle with
a hundred mile(at 60mph) range using a Zzipper fairing. The smaller pack
makes it possible to carry the Zilla and the PFC. Might EVen get a 3 hour
total charge including taper or am I too hopeful. (Hmmm do Lithium batteries
taper???? I guess they just want their amphours back) Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: New Zillch Controller
> God! I am still laughing!!!
>
> Dad would love to not have to bend #6 gage wire around the insides of a
> PFC40...
>
> Smaller wire.... Yea Right... I caught a PFC40 sucking 62 Amps of 240 this
> last week.
> I can now make as many amps with a small form factor(PFC20 Case) than I
can
> with the PFC50 large case charger..
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