EV Digest 6918
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: AC Motor?
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV parts ordered! - ?questions?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: CutOff
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Google Gets It - It's the Plug, Stupid
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Ampabout ... NOT
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: "Petrol and diesel are dead," says GM
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: to quote the Beatles, "HELP" Zilla problems
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: to quote the Beatles, "HELP" Zilla problems
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) ADC 9'' Amps
by Joseph Tahbaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: to quote the Beatles, "HELP" Zilla problems
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Google presses for 100 MPG vehicle
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Wire 4/0
by "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Wheelchair batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Wire 4/0
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EBEAA Meeting - this Saturday, June 23, 2007 10-12 in Alameda
by Ed Thorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV parts ordered! - ?questions?
by "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) speed controller
by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Zombie rises from the dead Siamese8 lives again
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: EBEAA Meeting - this Saturday, June 23, 2007 10-12 in Alameda
by "David S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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LOL,
And my gasser is 100% efficient. (23% motive and 77% planet warmer)
This is actually an important point. I have always called heat the
bullshit detector for slick efficiency claims. I have been measuring the
temp of each aluminum rim when I get home and the source of my poor
mileage is obvious.
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Under C1 or C0.3 perhaps 10.5v is a good number, but if you are
talking about low load currents, dropping the voltage to 11.5 volts
may be enough to damage the battery and begin sulfation.
On 6/19/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
> Is there a secret formula for figuring cutoff for a baterry (when you
> should stop drawing power from it). I have a normal lead acid battery.
> Group 31 with around 1000 CCA. 12Volts.
Sure; that's one's easy. The standard cutoff voltage is 1.75 volts per
cell under load; that's 10.5v for a 12v battery. When the voltage falls
to 10.5v under load, it's dead (at that load current).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
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On 6/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
For the rest of us, I guess we'll convert 1986 mazdas in desperate need of
paint jobs....
Speak for yourself. My conversion is a 1974 Mazda, and it still has
good paint.... :)
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And the day was going so well too. This morning, I got many
chores done before my College class. Once in class I found I did as
well on my second midterm exam as I did on my first (yay!). At the
end of class I also got a lead on a possible temp-to-hire job
configuring Mac & PCs for the San Bruno School System.
Leaving for home I found a ticket on my EV. It was a fine for
parking my EV in an EV parking spot (?!?). I went down to the
campus police station and got yakking to one of the officers.
He saw that my EV was properly marked as an EV and did not know how
the officer that wrote the ticket could have missed that. He took
care of the ticket and we got talking EVs, and AFVs.
I left for home in a good mood because all was well. I thought I
would take a slower route to be careful coming home. That turned
out not to be the case.
Part way home, a car in front stopped suddenly forcing the car in
front of me to slam on the brakes and
Summary, my EV body is pretty well smashed up after all three
vehicles mixed it up. My driver door does not open, and I had to
exit my EV via the passenger side. The front wheels still steer and
the Electrics seem OK.
We all exchanged info (the local Police and the drivers). The tow
truck driver and I yakked up EVs as he was asking lots of questions
while towing my smashed EV home. When he unloaded my crunched EV
and of course all my neighbors had to come out to eyeball the
damage (just what I did not need). I do not know if I can still
drive the EV. I will check that tomorrow.
I have to decide if
-I am going fix the EV body at a regular auto body shop (-$$$$)
-Get and EV converter to pull the EV guts out and push them into
another donor vehicle (-$$$$$)
- Or sell the smashed EV for EV parts (+$$$, the T125 batteries,
C600 DC controller, and 9" dual shaft Advanced DC motor is still
good).
It is just a bummer to be out of commission. I think I am starting
to go through EV withdrawals.
I still have one more class next week I cannot miss, as I need to
take the final exam. I will have to start figuring out some alt
transportation to use (rent an ICE, bicycle to the bus stop, etc.).
Oh what joy :-o
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
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Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play
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If they had included in this press release that they were going to
resume immediate hi volume production of the EV1, and also give one to
each previous EV1 lesee, I might believe them. And I might buy (not
lease) an EV1 and forget doing my EV conversion. But barring that, I
would rather drive any conversion of my own creation (certainly not
from a GM glider either) than buy anything from GM.
Z
On 6/19/07, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>From The ET LIST.
Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cleannewworld
Date: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:50 pm ((PDT))
"Petrol and diesel are dead," says GM
11 June 2007
http://www.celsias.com/blog/2007/06/16/gm-scorns-internal-combustion-engine/#comment-32078
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/225989
http://www.hugg.com/story/GM-Scorns-Internal-Combustion-Engine
General Motors is determined to "remove the car from the environment and
energy debate" in the next 10 years by doing away with the internal
combustion engine altogether.
The world's second largest car company now views hydrogen fuel cell power as
the "the end game," according to its director of advanced technology vehicle
concepts Dr Christopher Borroni-Bird.
Using internal combustion engines is no longer an option, and that includes
diesels and hybrids.
"Hybrids are not a solution," he said. "They just delay the day of
reckoning. The debate about hybrids being cleaner than diesel is
irrelevant - the diesel is a dead end because it uses fossil fuels."
Dr Borroni-Bird said that hydrogen-powered and electric cars would develop
alongside each other, and that GM would have a "cost-effective" fuel cell
car by 2010. It will trial 100 fuel cell Equinox SUVs across the world in a
market test for the car.
GM's first hydrogen production car
Dr Borroni-Bird is part of a team accelerating development of GM's Chevrolet
Volt concept car in an attempt to get it into production by 2010. Last week
the company announced it has signed contracts to begin development of new
high-performance lithium ion batteries, vital to getting an electric car
with a useable range to market.
But there is no guarantee that these batteries will be ready for use in a
production car in three years. Despite this risk, GM is willing to risk
spending millions on developing a car that may not have a viable propulsion
system by the time its ready to go on sale.
Part of GM's strategy is to complete the "electrification" of the car,
replacing mechanical systems with electrical ones such as by-wire braking
and steering. These save weight and cut fuel use, and are significantly
cheaper and easier to fit if the car itself is electrically driven.
This idea, although not exclusive to GM, was previewed in the Autonomy and
Hywire concepts, and opens up possibilities for car development that just
don't exist in those powered by the combustion engine. Electric brakes and
steering can be easily and quickly retuned to individual customer
requirements, for example. "These vehicles aren't just good for the
environment," said Dr Borroni-Bird. "They help make the car better."
But GM does not want to be drawn into the debate over producing electricity
and hydrogen cleanly. "We will build a car that runs on renewable energy,
but it's not our responsibility to produce the fuels," said a GM spokesman.
Dan Stevens
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
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On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:30:28 -0500, you wrote:
>
> I need help. I have Zilla problems. I hooked everything up and
>took a ride. Parked it in the garage and the next day it won't run. I
>am getting an 1132 error code (controller did not communicate during
>precharge). Also I am getting a 17.5 volt short from the traction
>pack to ground/body of the car. I have traced it to the controller.
>Is this normal? Why won't the Hairball talk to the controller.
Did the right thing. Called tech support and asked for help. The
short is in the motor. Should have expected something like this. 25
year old parts that have been sitting for 17 years. Insult to injury
I have to take everything out of the front of the car now. Bright
note is that this is nothing as complicated as an ICE. Should have
inspected the motor first. Have to see if Jim Husted has enough time
to help walk me through this.
R. Matt Milliron
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
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Matthew Milliron wrote:
short is in the motor. Should have expected something like this. 25
year old parts that have been sitting for 17 years. Insult to injury
I have to take everything out of the front of the car now. Bright
note is that this is nothing as complicated as an ICE. Should have
inspected the motor first. Have to see if Jim Husted has enough time
to help walk me through this.
Matt, is it possible that it is carbon dust from brush wear creating the
short?
Blowing the motor out with compressed air may reduce or eliminate the short.
Worth a try? How many miles on Pikachu? My buzz indicates 20,000 but I
think it is more like 120,000,
John
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--- Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:30:28 -0500, you wrote:
> Have to see if Jim Husted has enough time
> to help walk me through this.
>
Hey Matt
Just give me a write when you get there. Pics would
help for looking at overall motor health and such.
Just got Wayland out of my hair so that frees me up
for the rest of you guys again, LMAO 8^P
BTW almost didn't catch this as I'm not the controller
guy 8^)
BTWX2 you do realize if I help you that makes you my
motor bitch and you have to do EVerything I say on top
of putting up with evil twin rantings and such, right?
Cause I know I've seen you around here long enough to
know me 8^P
Just keep me posted
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
I think part of the problem GM is facing is making a car that would
sell. We can say all day long that the volt would be great but how many
are going to go right out and buy one when it is available? Or how many
would be willing to put down an advance to get one of the first (like
people are doing with Teslas)? GM is taking a huge chance at going away
from what it has been doing since 1918.
Robert Heinlein said, "Sure, the game is rigged; But if you don't bet,
you don't have *any* chance of winning!"
GM is in a bad situation; but if they don't change, it's only going to
get worse. They *have* to try something new, because what they've been
doing since 1918 isn't working any more.
Toyota and Honda figured this out 10 years ago. They knew their EVs and
hybrids initially wouldn't make money, but they also knew they had to
move in that direction or die -- so they did it! Now, 10 years later,
they have successful hybrid products that are making money. They have
learned how to build electric electric motors, controller, and
batteries. In another 10 years, they will be in the best position to
produce true EVs.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Rich Rudman wrote:
Geez folks... welcome to backyard engineering! I spent a few grand
years ago to ditch clutcheless EV driving. You guys are playing with
low power EVs, and can deal with funky hard to operate vehicles. Keep
the clutch! Then anyone can drive it. Keep the clutchless EV for
those that can't afford to do it right in the first place.
Like most things, there is no "right" or "wrong" answer here. That's why
you can find so many examples of EVs with and without clutches.
Everything depends on the details. Some transmissions are easy to shift
without a clutch -- others are a real bear. Some EVs have such a wide
power band that you really don't need to shift, so a clutch is
unnecessary -- others need constant shifting to maintain reasonable
performance. It's some people's driving style to always be in a big
hurry -- others don't mind the slower shifting.
I have the same EV that Jay Caplin does -- a 1980 Renault LeCar
conversion. I have a clutch in it, but will tell you I almost never use
it. This particular transaxle shifts so easily without it that it's not
worth the trouble. If I was going to rebuild it, I'd leave the clutch out.
But my ComutaVan had no clutch. Its undersized motor made constant
shifting mandatory, but the balky Borg Warner 3-speed transmission was
nothing but trouble. It would have benefited from having a clutch.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Where is a good place to buy 4/0 wire??
What is 2/0 rated at for amps
O shit how about this.. Where a good place to buy anything I need for my E V
and not go broke
Thanks Mitchell
-------Original Message-------
From: Zeke Yewdall
Date: 6/16/2007 9:58:42 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Aircraft Starter generator
I think that 2/0 is more normal wire size, and I'd use 4/0 for most
Designs if possible. #4 is more like a fuseable link than a real wire
For the amperages that we are usually using. #4 is only rated around
90 amps depending on insulation, placement, etc, whereas 4/0 is rated
Around 270 amps (these are NEC ratings for use in houses -- cars can
Often get away with a little more, if it's not continuous).
Z
On 6/15/07, Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you give me your email I will send you a photo and you can tell me I
> hook it up to a single 12 volt battery today to see what it would do It
ran
> slow but it ran.. Dam did those wires get hot.. Any way is 4 gage what is
> commonly used between the batteries..??
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Bruce Weisenberger
> Date: 06/14/07 00:44:40
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Aircraft Starter generator
>
> Is it a JH-29 used by www.e-volks.com? If so they run
> It up to 96 volts with heavy duty air blowing through
> It. I plan on using one in a Honda CRF. Have it
> Already. Just need to build an adapter, get a
> Controller, batteries and wiring. Got a bit to go.
> Plan on using an AXE-7245 72 volts 450 amps.
>
> --- Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > So this is my project now a aircraft starter
> > generator on a Geo metro
> > convertible
> > The motor is 400 amp at 300 volts permanent
> > magnet..
> >
> > So guys in lighting me .. What do I have to look
> > forward to on my first EV
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-------
> >
> > From: John Wayland
> > Date: 6/12/2007 8:49:41 AM
> > >
> >
> > I believe this. There are a lot of hills around
> > here, some of them
> > Pretty steep, so yes, in our beautiful urban area
> > (we are the only major
> > City in the USA with an extinct volcano within the
> > city limits) regen is
> > A nice feature. HEL--LOW everyone...I've 'never'
> > said I don't like
> > Regen! In fact, I think it's great.
> >
> > In my first version of Blue Meanie, waaaay back in
> > 1980, I used a
> > Primitive aircraft starter generator as the traction
> > source. It was a
> > Very inefficient motor, and thus ran very hot all
> > the time, but it was a
> > Versatile compound wound type beast with its
> > selectable windings. In
> > Addition to having the acceleration power of the
> > mighty series-wound
> > Motor within, you could also excite the shunt
> > windings of its generator
> > Soul and get mondo regen, the kind that would try to
> > through you through
> > The windshield if you got carried away! Some where
> > in cyber space
> > there's my detailed post of a trip I took from my
> > east Portland home
> > Westward across the city, up and over the steep
> > Sylvan hills (6% grade
> > For nearly 4 miles), out to Beaverton where the car
> > was put on charge
> > But because of time restraints (high output constant
> > current PFC
> > Chargers didn't exist back then) it didn't get fully
> > charged...then
> > Reverse the process back home. This was when my
> > little Datsun ran at a
> > Heady 48 volts, folks, just 8 6V golf car batteries!
> > Anyway...I barely
> > Made it up the west side grade to the summit of
> > Sylvan hill as the
> > Batteries were exhausted from their not-so-great
> > recharge...the car
> > Crawled to the top and was at a tepid human's
> > walking gate as it rolled
> > Over the crest...whew! I kicked on full regen which
> > held the car to a
> > Slow 15 mph or so down the hill, but hundreds of
> > amps were jammed into
> > The poor abused batteries (my formative years, so
> > give me a break for
> > Committing battricide). I could have coasted down
> > the hill, but after
> > The lowest point as you re-enter Portland, there's a
> > big ass bridge you
> > Have to transverse that arches high up and over the
> > Willamette River
> > that's part of the freeway system that outs you onto
> > I-84 East. Had I
> > Merely coasted, the car 'might' have had enough
> > momentum to make it up
> > And over the bridge, but it surely would have died
> > afterwards on the
> > L-o-n-g ramp that winds to the I-84 and I would have
> > found myself stuck
> > Alongside the crazy freeway. However, because of the
> > high current, long
> > Duration regen I employed, the car had a burst of
> > power in its battery
> > Pack and I was able to make the ~ 9 mile trek (all a
> > gradual uphill
> > Route) all the way back to my driveway! Yes, it was
> > a 100% discharge,Thanks
> > for acknowledging this. Yes, I know I'm right about
> > it. I have
> > Logged too many miles behind the wheel of EV1s to
> > not know this, and
> > Yes, I've even driven Solectria's vehicles (their
> > twin rear motor
> > Pickups and unfortunately, their s-l-o-w Geo
> > Metros).
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________________
> ______
> Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing
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>
>
>
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phelps wrote:
After searching the archives, I didn't see anything about using
Wheelchair batteries in an EV. Are they commonly deep-cycle or suited
For an EV? I saw some 50Ah AGM Diehard wheelchair batteries at Sears
For a good price. Has anyone had any experience with wheelchair
Batteries?
The ones I've seen have been sealed lead-acid gel cells, or sometimes
AGMs. Good for long life, but poor at delivering high peak currents.
They are sometimes replaced every few years "no matter what" since
people rely on them and insurance or the government is paying for it.
A local battery store gave my BEST kid's EV teams their 3-year-old
wheelchair "pulls" for several years. These batteries were typically OK
on amphour capacity (still had 60-80% of rated capacity), but had high
internal resistance. They worked OK for our kids, whose vehicles don't
draw more than 30 amps peak. But they would not work well at all for a
full-size vehicle that draws 100+amps.
Of course, this is how they behaved when 3 years old. I haven't tested
any of them when new.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Where a good place to buy anything I need for my EV
and not go broke
EV Parts-
http://www.evparts.com
EV America-
http://www.ev-america.com
Russco EV-
http://www.russcoev.com
Electro Automotive-
http://www.ev-america.com
Canadian Electric Vehicles-
http://www.canev.com
Thunderstruck Motors-
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com
Metric Mind-
http://www.metricmind.com
Cafe Electric-
http://www.cafeelectric.com
Manzanita Micro-
http://www.manzanitamicro.com
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
Dont miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft
Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/
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*********START OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
Topic: EV Battery Management
Date: Saturday, June 23, 2007
Time: 10 am to 12 noon.
Site: Alameda First Baptist Church
1515 Santa Clara Ave, Alameda
Visitors welcome, open to the public.
We are still working out the details, but this month
we have two exciting presenters.
First, we have Jim Ramos, our long-time supporter at
American Battery Company, who will present an
affordable means of watering flooded PbA (lead acid)
batteries, to keep the affordable batteries alive and
healthy.
Second, we have the team from Electric Motor Sport
here to describe how they are packaging and managing
high-tech batteries for the small motorcycle
platforms.
*** Also note that our Fall Rally has been moved to
September. The large annual Silicon Valley EV Rally
falls on our August meeting date this year. Hope all
are able to participate in the important Rally, which
brings together the cutting edge EVs like the Tesla
Roadster and the ACP EBox (and others) and the various
out-of-production OEM and various conversions around
in the SF Bay Area.
EVs will be on-hand and informal Q&A can take place in
the parking lot after the meeting.
http://www.ebeaa.org
*********END OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
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I bought an I-zip scooter to build my sons four wheeler project. Bought it
at second hand store.
The speed control seems to act funky, won't send power thru to engine, then
let it set for 30 seconds all power disconnected and try again and it works,
I can hear something flick off inside it, but can't duplicate the 30 seconds
issue and sometimes it's minutes before I get it to send power to the
engine.
How do I reset it and what might I be I doing to make it flick off?
(I took off the throttle thought maybe it had issues) still don't think it
works
The only time the motor worked with the speed control is when I had the
wires from the speed control to the brakes not a complete circuit and the
wires from the speed control to the throttle completed circuit, however I
can't duplicate it now that it has flipped off.
It's a 30amp speed controller 24volt.
God bless
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I look forward to seeing it in action, and I'm curious when someone will be
the first to incorporate controller/solenoid modulation of brush timing. I
know you and Otmar can do it...Hint hint...
So you decided to save that armature, eh? I thought you might slide a new
one on, but there's always room for more abuse and that one's already been,
uh... tested 8^) It'll probably take at least 3-4 years to blow up Siamese8
MkII...lol!
Looking forward to seeing you in July at the Invitational.
Loni Hull
Portland, OR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 7:20 PM
Subject: Zombie rises from the dead Siamese8 lives again
Hey all
Been awhile since my last update as I've had my hands
full with about 8 days that felt somewhere between
"land of the living dead" and "Humpty Dumpty" LMAO!!!
I guess I'll resume the update with a maybe unknown
fact that the Siamese8 will be two years old here in a
couple weeks 8^D With that said it has taken me 2
long years to glean any data from this Frankensteined
mutant oddity we call the Siamese8. Now back then
there was no "Siamese8-Z2K" to look at so this was a
real shoot from the hip project, if you know what I
mean 8^) Anyway getting my hands back on it has
allowed me some useful information.
With that said there were things I am just tickled to
death with as to how they've handled the abuse from
"Kill it or die Wayland and son" and then there were
some things that shows where hindsight is a wonderful
thing indeed. Mostly it's been great news with most
of the (lets call them issues) lying on the shaft.
Like both John and Keith said,(been lots of calls to
John and Keith, LMAO) "hey we'd never done it before"
now we know more than we did 2 years ago.
Furthermore we are dealing with a shaft that can not
be more tha 1 3/16" diameter for an 8" motor armature.
I need to backtrack a bit here with some basic
ramblings. When the arms were originally pressed on
it was somewhere between 2 and 3 AM at the Dutchmans
shop. Keith had to press them due to liability
issues, so between that, the 5 pounds of sand it felt
were under my eyelids, and Johns big fat head in my
way most the time I didn't get a really good feel for
how they interfaced and such.
Now that I've had both arms off and pressed back on I
will report that the shaft has lets say some "boing"
to it 8^o When pressing it, you can see it bend a bit
and then boing back once pressure was removed (lets
say there are a lot of 6" strokes needed to press that
bad boy)(I actually had to start on my bottom tray
holes and worked almost to my highest ones on the
press) anyway lets just say I got some press time on
it.
For those who just have to know, I'd say 12 to 15 tons
were required to press it which is about a third or
better tighter than an OEM shaft.
Anyway it's a catch 22 as this "boing" as I call it is
probably why Wayland hasn't snapped into pieces but is
also allowing it to warp over and rub the pole shoes.
Keith called a metallurgist who stated that this is
probably still our best option with heat treating as
the other option which Keith says also has it's cons.
I did tell Keith that it'd be nice to somehow mod one
of the Transwarp9 slip yoke bushing snouts to try and
keep the shaft from wagging under the torque. With no
wear or oddities in any of the motor parts I must
recant my housing wagging theory. Although I do think
it's still a good idea to mount the hind end down
although it might be more for future issues than
current ones, lol. Adding something more like the
tranny / slip yoke nose on the Transwarp9 might help
the shaft from flexing.
Being John's been calling me like EVery 37 minutes I
soon saw I wasn't gonna get the time I wanted with the
old gal. John decided he wanted 5 more degrees in
advancement, and the solid leads I've been working up
to replace those nasty ugly ass cable leads I had in
there. Because John didn't want to have to screw up
his mountings on the front motor I had to add the
advancement to the brush rings and not just rotate the
end plates.
Problem is the OEM brush rings come with a divot on
the bottom side where they bolt on to the end plate
which will not allow them to pivot. Needing a flat
bottomed ring I had to make two new ones. I set the
first one with 5 degrees and then set the other one to
5 in the other direction (both half's run electrically
backwards from each other). I knew I wouldn't need
the full amount as the distances aren't the same. I
measured the CCWDE timing holes at .700 and the CWDE
holes at .500 and calc'd the rings to match and locked
down the adjustable ring there as the ball park area
(which was actually very close, almost dead on)
Because I didn't know exactly where the one ring would
sit when timed I had to leave the solid leads
unattached to the holder and just screwed the brushes
into them as there was no way I could get holes to
line up like that.
Alright I'm getting ahead of myself and I must
backtrack some more with a couple fun sidelines. When
building the Siamese8 up the first time I was working
with pretty much brand new armatures and although they
ran what I'd call lift motor balanced it did have a
bit of wobble in it. At that point, John seeing it
actually done, called it done and ran out of the shop
laughing like some horror movie fiend 8^)
With 2 years of use on them and with the rubbing issue
lets say they had a few "Rocky" type lumps and had
lost small pieces of balancing putty lost here and
there I believe due to the rubbing and the heat it
caused. Needless to say she really needed to get a
balance job done. I called a local AC motor shop who
balances stuff for me when I need. When I called them
I told them that I had a strange creature that needed
to be balanced 8^) Well I knew I'd better bring my
laptop down as there would be questions, LMAO.
When I got there and came walking in with this freak
of an armature, the guys first words were "what the
hell is that out of" I told him that if he had a
minute I'd go get the laptop and show him ,as it beat
telling him 8^o
Now something of this nature usually brings out the
boss, so by the time I went to my truck and back the
owner was at the counter 8^) I played a couple videos
to a huge bemusement of them both, but as I went to
shut them down they told me to hold on and got the two
guys in back for a show 8^)
I think they just wanted to watch them again, LMAO!
Anyway pretty fun stuff! With that said this motor
has never been so smooth 8^o
Moving on...
When it came time to paint the motor John had picked
out a grape jelly purple and he in fact had bought and
supplied it (actually painted them himself outside his
garage just before we did a show and tell during an
EVent that year)
Well two years has gone by, not to mention I didn't
buy it the first time, LMAO. John tells me he got it
at Fred Meyers, so I bip down to the local store to
hunt me down some grape jelly paint. They had a color
chart and what appeared to be the color was named
"wild grape", guess what? They didn't carry it 8^(
but they did carry what they called "iris" and it was
just a tad lighter but would do 8^) But they didn't
carry it in big cans just these little BS touch up
cans 8^(
While I was there I saw the same company made this
wild (what they called anodized looking) purple paint
8^) But then I figured John would shoot me 8^( In
the end I grabbed a bunch of small cans of the Iris
and two of this weird paint. I showed John a sample
and he said why not go with this new look as he was in
town that day. Upon painting it with a couple of
coats to even it up it got really dark, way dark like
almost black purple
8^(
I called John and told him it looked like crap and his
motor would be Iris! After applying a coat over the
dark undercoat the color cured to this really nice
just slightly darker then OEM look that seems to "pop"
out a bit more than the wild grape it had been.
Anyway it was one of those bad turned good stories 8^)
John seemed to like it as well.
Anyway I handed it back to John today and he sped off
laughing like some horror movie villain again and I
couldn't help but feel like I just had a dejavue
moment 8^P
On that I'm gonna wrap this up for now.
Hope you enjoyed.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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Anybody thought of recording these meetings and putting them on google tube?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ed Thorpe
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 11:52 PM
To: Alameda News; Ang Newspapers; RANGER DL; EVDL; RAV4;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: EBEAA Meeting - this Saturday, June 23, 2007 10-12 in Alameda
*********START OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
Topic: EV Battery Management
Date: Saturday, June 23, 2007
Time: 10 am to 12 noon.
Site: Alameda First Baptist Church
1515 Santa Clara Ave, Alameda
Visitors welcome, open to the public.
We are still working out the details, but this month
we have two exciting presenters.
First, we have Jim Ramos, our long-time supporter at
American Battery Company, who will present an
affordable means of watering flooded PbA (lead acid)
batteries, to keep the affordable batteries alive and
healthy.
Second, we have the team from Electric Motor Sport
here to describe how they are packaging and managing
high-tech batteries for the small motorcycle
platforms.
*** Also note that our Fall Rally has been moved to
September. The large annual Silicon Valley EV Rally
falls on our August meeting date this year. Hope all
are able to participate in the important Rally, which
brings together the cutting edge EVs like the Tesla
Roadster and the ACP EBox (and others) and the various
out-of-production OEM and various conversions around
in the SF Bay Area.
EVs will be on-hand and informal Q&A can take place in
the parking lot after the meeting.
http://www.ebeaa.org
*********END OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
____________________________________________________________________________
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