EV Digest 6965

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Sunrise Project
        by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)
        by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)
        by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Brush timing advance, nothing new :-)
        by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
        by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) RE: Infrared coating and airsuspension packagesSubjects for faqs
        by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Sunrise Project
        by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)
        by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Infrared coating and airsuspension packagesSubjects for faqs
        by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) VW Rabbits-conversion suggestions
        by Gordon G Schaeffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Infrared coating and airsuspension packagesSubjects for faqs
        by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Sunrise Project
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Best Place for Trojans in NorCal?
        by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Cheap
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Wayland Invitational ramblings (Re: Nobody wants my money.. )
        by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Any Rabbit EV owners here?
        by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: VW Rabbits-conversion suggestions
        by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Infrared coating and airsuspension packagesSubjects for faqs
        by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Sunrise for a Force?
        by Todd Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
        by "Jim, Saturn Guy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:

"Anyhow, IF ya wanna help the cause, send Lee some money! It has been mostly Lees dime on this project. I'm tooting his horn, here.
He's too much of a gentleman to ask. "
*****************************

It's easy!  Just send your donation to [EMAIL PROTECTED] via PayPal.

Try 10% of what your EV saves you in gasoline.  That's my minimum!
Lee's contributions to this list have more value than that!

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks.  The weight is very low and is hanging below the suspension.
It works better than I thought it would.  The suspension geometry
prevents dive on braking.   Most everything is aluminum.  I need to
weigh it but my wife won't let me use the bath room scale.........300
for battetres, 80 for the motor, 170 for everything else, frame,
wheels, controller. air compressor.  Charger not on bike.  me

On 6/28/07, Alan Brinkman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mark,

Cool ride.  I can see lots of thought and time went into your frame.

How do you get the single air suspension to stay balanced, both front
and rear at ride height?  Is there a spring or two that assist at
traveling height?

How did you keep the curb weight so reasonable?  Does the aluminum frame
contribute a lot to that?

Very nice!

Alan Brinkman

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Eidson
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:46 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)

Following similar logic I have arrived at this design:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231
Hopefully I will get the 15 mi range at a reasonable DOD.  I won't be
going over 50MPH often or for long stretches.  Need to get it on the
licensed and on the road and find out.  me

On 6/27/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I think I understand now. Regardless of pack voltage and gearing,
when I
> > demand acceleration the system has to generate X watts. Once the
limits of
> > pack voltage are reached, X watts are achieved by increasing
amperage.
> > Right?
>
> Correct.
>
> > When I look around, though, there doesn't seem to be a
one-size-fits-all
> > solution for every application.
>
> Absolutely, there is no solution that fits every problem.  Vehicles,
> especially EVs are a compromise.  Do we want better handling or more
> comfort?  Lower weight and drag or more interior space?
> Multispeed transmission, or more batteries?
>
> > Most of the respondents here have suggested that direct drive is the
way
> > to go.
>
> with a motorcycle?  Abolutely.  The trade off is that without a
multispeed
> transmission, the motor has to develope more torque and/or RPM to give
the
> same performance.
> With a car this means larger or more motors and more powerful
controllers.
>  It means the same thing with a motorcycle, however motorcycles are
> smaller to begin with so using a normal car size motor/controller
already
> gives you the needed torque advantage.
>
> >That may be true, but I'm curious whether that's the general
consensus
> Almost all of the successful drag racing bikes forgo a transmission,
this
> is because of experience as much as theory.
>
> > when pack voltage is limited to, say, 120 V due to packaging/range
> > constraints. If, for example, I hold the motor at 9000 rpm to
maintain top
> > speed, it seems that I would be drawing big amps while unnecessarily
> > decreasing motor life-expectancy due to centrifugal force (with most
> > motors). Or I could change gear ratios and still demand the same
wattage,
> > but at a lower motor rpm. True?
> Cumulative centifugal force seems to have very little effect on motor
life
> expectancy.  As long as the motor is rated to handle the RPMs, then it
> will continue to do so long past the time the motorcyle is scrap.
> Gear it so it can reach your maximum designed speed while not quite
> reaching your maximum RPM.  THen look at what kind of torque it can
> produce and see if that will meet your goals.  If not, get a more
powerful
> motor/controller.
>
> Another possiblity is to figure out how to build a small, litewieght
two
> speed transmission.
> >
> > I know it seems unrealistic to think that an operator might hold
rpms at
> > 9000 for any length of time, but if I'm going to start manufacturing
> > motorcycles in any volume, I have to condsider every possibility.
>
> Well, quite frankly, any motorcycle that can meet your designed speed
> won't be able to do it for long unless you are spending a fortune on
LiPol
> batteries.  At which point not many people will be willing to fork out
the
> cash needed anyway, so the number of people abusing the bike will also
be
> pretty small.
>
> The power requirements to simply maintain 60 mph are fairly large on a
> bike.  Something like 5 or 6kw.  If you are using Lead-Acid batteries
> you'd be lucky to get 2kwh onboard, that means a range of maybe 15
miles,
> or a 7.5 mile radius.
>
> LiPol will give you much more range, perhaps 4 or 5 times as much.
But
> will cost a lot.
>
> You are focusing on the motor and that is the least of your problems.
>
>
> > Lon Hull,
> > Portland, OR
> >
> >>
> >> On 6/26/07, Loni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>Of course I'd love to just dump in more voltage or current, but
> >>> design constraints won't allow it. Will changing gears allow me to
stay
> >>> in
> >>> the fat part of the motor's torque curve while continuing to
accelerate
> >>> to
> >>> max speed, or should I just wring the motor out and accept
whatever
> >>> output
> >>> it's capable of as current demand outstrips pack capacity?
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
> wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your
long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Very innovative. I like the Bimota Tesi-esque air shock idea. Very lightweight. With all the work you did to keep weight down, I'm sure LiIon must be on the wish list, eh?

Lon Hull,
Portland, OR

----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 7:45 AM
Subject: RE: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)


Mark,

Cool ride.  I can see lots of thought and time went into your frame.

How do you get the single air suspension to stay balanced, both front
and rear at ride height?  Is there a spring or two that assist at
traveling height?

How did you keep the curb weight so reasonable?  Does the aluminum frame
contribute a lot to that?

Very nice!

Alan Brinkman

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Eidson
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:46 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)

Following similar logic I have arrived at this design:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231
Hopefully I will get the 15 mi range at a reasonable DOD.  I won't be
going over 50MPH often or for long stretches.  Need to get it on the
licensed and on the road and find out.  me

On 6/27/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think I understand now. Regardless of pack voltage and gearing,
when I
> demand acceleration the system has to generate X watts. Once the
limits of
> pack voltage are reached, X watts are achieved by increasing
amperage.
> Right?

Correct.

> When I look around, though, there doesn't seem to be a
one-size-fits-all
> solution for every application.

Absolutely, there is no solution that fits every problem.  Vehicles,
especially EVs are a compromise.  Do we want better handling or more
comfort?  Lower weight and drag or more interior space?
Multispeed transmission, or more batteries?

> Most of the respondents here have suggested that direct drive is the
way
> to go.

with a motorcycle?  Abolutely.  The trade off is that without a
multispeed
transmission, the motor has to develope more torque and/or RPM to give
the
same performance.
With a car this means larger or more motors and more powerful
controllers.
 It means the same thing with a motorcycle, however motorcycles are
smaller to begin with so using a normal car size motor/controller
already
gives you the needed torque advantage.

>That may be true, but I'm curious whether that's the general
consensus
Almost all of the successful drag racing bikes forgo a transmission,
this
is because of experience as much as theory.

> when pack voltage is limited to, say, 120 V due to packaging/range
> constraints. If, for example, I hold the motor at 9000 rpm to
maintain top
> speed, it seems that I would be drawing big amps while unnecessarily
> decreasing motor life-expectancy due to centrifugal force (with most
> motors). Or I could change gear ratios and still demand the same
wattage,
> but at a lower motor rpm. True?
Cumulative centifugal force seems to have very little effect on motor
life
expectancy.  As long as the motor is rated to handle the RPMs, then it
will continue to do so long past the time the motorcyle is scrap.
Gear it so it can reach your maximum designed speed while not quite
reaching your maximum RPM.  THen look at what kind of torque it can
produce and see if that will meet your goals.  If not, get a more
powerful
motor/controller.

Another possiblity is to figure out how to build a small, litewieght
two
speed transmission.
>
> I know it seems unrealistic to think that an operator might hold
rpms at
> 9000 for any length of time, but if I'm going to start manufacturing
> motorcycles in any volume, I have to condsider every possibility.

Well, quite frankly, any motorcycle that can meet your designed speed
won't be able to do it for long unless you are spending a fortune on
LiPol
batteries.  At which point not many people will be willing to fork out
the
cash needed anyway, so the number of people abusing the bike will also
be
pretty small.

The power requirements to simply maintain 60 mph are fairly large on a
bike.  Something like 5 or 6kw.  If you are using Lead-Acid batteries
you'd be lucky to get 2kwh onboard, that means a range of maybe 15
miles,
or a 7.5 mile radius.

LiPol will give you much more range, perhaps 4 or 5 times as much.
But
will cost a lot.

You are focusing on the motor and that is the least of your problems.


> Lon Hull,
> Portland, OR
>
>>
>> On 6/26/07, Loni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>Of course I'd love to just dump in more voltage or current, but
>>> design constraints won't allow it. Will changing gears allow me to
stay
>>> in
>>> the fat part of the motor's torque curve while continuing to
accelerate
>>> to
>>> max speed, or should I just wring the motor out and accept
whatever
>>> output
>>> it's capable of as current demand outstrips pack capacity?
>>
>
>


--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your
long
legalistic signature is void.




--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: Brush timing advance, nothing new :-)


My, my, how technology advances! (sarcastic)

On 6/28/07, Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
       Yesterday, I visited the unbelievably good technology and science
museum (Deutsches Museum) in Munich, Germany. It was a major treat to
see the first German U-boat, the U1 on display:
http://www.deutsches-museum.de/en/sammlungen/verkehr/maritime-exhibition/u1/

       What I found particularly amusing is that they had
mechanically-adjustable brush timing on the electric propulsion
motors. There are hand wheels that worked threaded actuators to move
the brush rigging. The range of movement looked very broad, perhaps
20 degrees or more. Here is a picture showing the details of this
1906 state-of-the-art brush advance system.

http://www.killacycle.com/photos/misc/DSCN1903.JPG

       100 years later and we are still using the same stuff. :-)

       Bill Dube'

 Hi Bill an' EVerybody;

We have the same setup on a few cactive 1880's trolley cars, too. It's fun to see the cutting edge racers going for ancient technology!Series paralleling, field shunting. Next? Interpoles??RR's did alotta creative stuff a hundred or more years ago!As well as EV builders.

  Seeya

  Bob



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.10/873 - Release Date: 6/26/2007 11:54 PM



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On my Nissan it is in the controller itself.  I push a button to select
AC but if my fan position is less than high then the controller
modulates the AC on and off.  This could also be accomplished with a
high side pressure switch. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Pikkula
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:31
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?

This is probably a rather elementary question, but I'm not a mechanic so
I'll have to ask.

What is the control mechanism for the compressor to kick on and off (ie
how does it know)?  Is it a mechanical valve in the compressor, an
electrical signal from the ECU from a pressure sensor down line, etc?

Thanks,
Brian
1998 VW Jetta TDI
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/


On 6/27/07, Jim, Saturn Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Christopher,
>
> Hi, my name is Jim.  I am an ASE master mechanic and have been toying 
> with the A/C requirements of my own EV. The direct drive is an OK 
> idea, but the automotive compressors have the electromechanical 
> clutches on them for a reason.  They are made to "cycle"
> frequently under normal operating conditions.  Without this "cycling" 
> of the compressor, the system will not operate as it was designed to 
> do.  Start you ICE vehicle, turn on the A/C and hold the engine RPM up

> at 2000 like your going down the road.  No watch how often the 
> compressor cycles.  This action should be duplicated using your direct

> drive.  And if it is duplicated, I would think the life of your DC 
> accessory motor will be short.  I have been looking into the 
> possibility of using the compressor from a wrecked Toyota Prius.  They

> use a "compressor/motor"
> assembly.  There are no external moving parts.  Just feed it power.  
> But I'm still investigating what the power requirements are for these 
> compressors.  If you want to use the compressor you have, I would use 
> belt or chain drive and let the compressors clutch do it's job.  Have 
> fun!!
>
> Jim
> --- Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2007-06-27 at 13:04 -0700, Alan Brinkman
> > wrote:
> > > Christopher,
> > >
> > > I wrote this huge reply to your message and
> > deleted it and here are the
> > > key points I can add.  I have trouble creating
> > short messages.
> > >
> >
> > Thanks for the effort Alan, I really appreciate it.
> > I'm going to fiddle
> > around with the compressor and see what I can do with it, and I'll 
> > refer back to your email and Roland's and see if I understand more 
> > once I have the parts in front of me.  I'm hoping to do something 
> > like what you're talking about, attaching to the front face of the 
> > clutch/pulley assembly, and using the bolt into the shaft end to 
> > center everything.
> > Balancing might be an issue especially if I weld, but we'll see how 
> > it goes...
> >
> >
> > --
> > Christopher Robison
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://ohmbre.org          <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre +
> > Z2K + Warp13!
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
____________
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel
today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Firestone makes the airbags.  They have tons to choose from.  The ones I
like are http://www.airbagsource.com/  they have tons of choices and can
pretty much get you started in any size project. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of GWMobile
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:43
To: Ev List
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Infrared coating and airsuspension packagesSubjects for faqs

In the past two people have posted
1.
A site that makes glass coatings ofr automotive glass that reduces
infrared (heat) transmission from sunlight to almost zero inside a car
(reducing the air conditioning requirement considerably)
  And 2.
2. Low cost air suspension add on packages to increase gliders
(motorless cars used for conversion) weight carrying ability so they can
handle the increased weight of batteries.

Could someone report those two contacts and we could add them to the
faq.





www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming 
and the melting poles.

www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

----- Original Message ----- From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Sunrise Project


Bob Rice wrote:

"Anyhow, IF ya wanna help the cause, send Lee some money! It has been mostly Lees dime on this project. I'm tooting his horn, here.
He's too much of a gentleman to ask. "
*****************************

It's easy!  Just send your donation to [EMAIL PROTECTED] via PayPal.

Try 10% of what your EV saves you in gasoline.  That's my minimum!
Lee's contributions to this list have more value than that!

  Thanks John!

   You said it. Good plan!EVery little bit helps!

   Seeya at PDX?

  Bob

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.10/876 - Release Date: 6/28/2007 10:56 AM



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The next pack will probably be Lion or some other new technology.
This will allow a shorter frame, a lot less weight and more
vroom........me

On 6/28/07, Loni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Very innovative. I like the Bimota Tesi-esque air shock idea. Very
lightweight. With all the work you did to keep weight down, I'm sure LiIon
must be on the wish list, eh?

Lon Hull,
Portland, OR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 7:45 AM
Subject: RE: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)


> Mark,
>
> Cool ride.  I can see lots of thought and time went into your frame.
>
> How do you get the single air suspension to stay balanced, both front
> and rear at ride height?  Is there a spring or two that assist at
> traveling height?
>
> How did you keep the curb weight so reasonable?  Does the aluminum frame
> contribute a lot to that?
>
> Very nice!
>
> Alan Brinkman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Eidson
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 5:46 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)
>
> Following similar logic I have arrived at this design:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231
> Hopefully I will get the 15 mi range at a reasonable DOD.  I won't be
> going over 50MPH often or for long stretches.  Need to get it on the
> licensed and on the road and find out.  me
>
> On 6/27/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > I think I understand now. Regardless of pack voltage and gearing,
> when I
>> > demand acceleration the system has to generate X watts. Once the
> limits of
>> > pack voltage are reached, X watts are achieved by increasing
> amperage.
>> > Right?
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>> > When I look around, though, there doesn't seem to be a
> one-size-fits-all
>> > solution for every application.
>>
>> Absolutely, there is no solution that fits every problem.  Vehicles,
>> especially EVs are a compromise.  Do we want better handling or more
>> comfort?  Lower weight and drag or more interior space?
>> Multispeed transmission, or more batteries?
>>
>> > Most of the respondents here have suggested that direct drive is the
> way
>> > to go.
>>
>> with a motorcycle?  Abolutely.  The trade off is that without a
> multispeed
>> transmission, the motor has to develope more torque and/or RPM to give
> the
>> same performance.
>> With a car this means larger or more motors and more powerful
> controllers.
>>  It means the same thing with a motorcycle, however motorcycles are
>> smaller to begin with so using a normal car size motor/controller
> already
>> gives you the needed torque advantage.
>>
>> >That may be true, but I'm curious whether that's the general
> consensus
>> Almost all of the successful drag racing bikes forgo a transmission,
> this
>> is because of experience as much as theory.
>>
>> > when pack voltage is limited to, say, 120 V due to packaging/range
>> > constraints. If, for example, I hold the motor at 9000 rpm to
> maintain top
>> > speed, it seems that I would be drawing big amps while unnecessarily
>> > decreasing motor life-expectancy due to centrifugal force (with most
>> > motors). Or I could change gear ratios and still demand the same
> wattage,
>> > but at a lower motor rpm. True?
>> Cumulative centifugal force seems to have very little effect on motor
> life
>> expectancy.  As long as the motor is rated to handle the RPMs, then it
>> will continue to do so long past the time the motorcyle is scrap.
>> Gear it so it can reach your maximum designed speed while not quite
>> reaching your maximum RPM.  THen look at what kind of torque it can
>> produce and see if that will meet your goals.  If not, get a more
> powerful
>> motor/controller.
>>
>> Another possiblity is to figure out how to build a small, litewieght
> two
>> speed transmission.
>> >
>> > I know it seems unrealistic to think that an operator might hold
> rpms at
>> > 9000 for any length of time, but if I'm going to start manufacturing
>> > motorcycles in any volume, I have to condsider every possibility.
>>
>> Well, quite frankly, any motorcycle that can meet your designed speed
>> won't be able to do it for long unless you are spending a fortune on
> LiPol
>> batteries.  At which point not many people will be willing to fork out
> the
>> cash needed anyway, so the number of people abusing the bike will also
> be
>> pretty small.
>>
>> The power requirements to simply maintain 60 mph are fairly large on a
>> bike.  Something like 5 or 6kw.  If you are using Lead-Acid batteries
>> you'd be lucky to get 2kwh onboard, that means a range of maybe 15
> miles,
>> or a 7.5 mile radius.
>>
>> LiPol will give you much more range, perhaps 4 or 5 times as much.
> But
>> will cost a lot.
>>
>> You are focusing on the motor and that is the least of your problems.
>>
>>
>> > Lon Hull,
>> > Portland, OR
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On 6/26/07, Loni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>>Of course I'd love to just dump in more voltage or current, but
>> >>> design constraints won't allow it. Will changing gears allow me to
> stay
>> >>> in
>> >>> the fat part of the motor's torque curve while continuing to
> accelerate
>> >>> to
>> >>> max speed, or should I just wring the motor out and accept
> whatever
>> >>> output
>> >>> it's capable of as current demand outstrips pack capacity?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
>> wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your
> long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>>
>>
>



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In searching for the Low E coating for windows I came across this site
that is of interest to anyone building an electric car.  These people
added insulation and a low E coating to the car to improve the heat
retention and heat shedding capabilities in order to cut down on the
weight required for heating and air conditioning.

http://eetdnews.lbl.gov/nl2/thermal_auto.html 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 13:23
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Infrared coating and airsuspension packagesSubjects for
faqs

Firestone makes the airbags.  They have tons to choose from.  The ones I
like are http://www.airbagsource.com/  they have tons of choices and can
pretty much get you started in any size project. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of GWMobile
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:43
To: Ev List
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Infrared coating and airsuspension packagesSubjects for faqs

In the past two people have posted
1.
A site that makes glass coatings ofr automotive glass that reduces
infrared (heat) transmission from sunlight to almost zero inside a car
(reducing the air conditioning requirement considerably)
  And 2.
2. Low cost air suspension add on packages to increase gliders
(motorless cars used for conversion) weight carrying ability so they can
handle the increased weight of batteries.

Could someone report those two contacts and we could add them to the
faq.





www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.

www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would first replace the gear shift bushings.  They come in a kit for
very little money.  Be sure the CV boots are  good.  High quality gas
shocks and struts are important.  My 96V flooded pack on a diesel
conversion didn't need new springs, but any more battery weight would
need them.
Gordon Schaeffer

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I have used and was happy with Air-Lift brand air bags to increase load capacity. They will sell you full kits with compressor, gauges, bags, plumbing, etc or they will sell you the individual bags if you want to source the other components yourself. I actually didn't have an on-board compressor and just used either a bike pump or the gas station compressor when I needed to adjust the pressure for greater load.
hth,
Andrew

Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
Firestone makes the airbags.  They have tons to choose from.  The ones I
like are http://www.airbagsource.com/  they have tons of choices and can
pretty much get you started in any size project.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of GWMobile
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:43
To: Ev List
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Infrared coating and airsuspension packagesSubjects for faqs

In the past two people have posted
1.
A site that makes glass coatings ofr automotive glass that reduces
infrared (heat) transmission from sunlight to almost zero inside a car
(reducing the air conditioning requirement considerably)
  And 2.
2. Low cost air suspension add on packages to increase gliders
(motorless cars used for conversion) weight carrying ability so they can
handle the increased weight of batteries.

Could someone report those two contacts and we could add them to the
faq.





www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles.

www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> "Anyhow, IF ya wanna help the cause, send Lee some money! It has
>> been mostly Lees dime on this project. I'm tooting his horn, here.
>> He's too much of a gentleman to ask."

From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> It's easy!  Just send your donation to [EMAIL PROTECTED] via
> PayPal.
> Try 10% of what your EV saves you in gasoline.  That's my minimum!
> Lee's contributions to this list have more value... 

Wow; Thanks so much, guys! Yes, Paypal works. I already have a couple people 
doing this, and every little bit helps.

The Sunrise project "burn rate" is about $3000 a month, most of which I'm 
putting in. I just hired a summer student full-time; that will help get things 
done faster, but also increase costs.

--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it."    --    Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Has anyone recently ordered some Trojan floodies in norcal (SF Bay Area), and if so from where and how much?

-Phil
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- In my BMS I memorize charge/discharge *pattern* as the BMS cycles and learns about each cell. If for one cycle behavior suddenly changes (too much
self discharge so apparent capacity is lower) beyond allowed margin,
the flag is set and you can inspect suspicious cell(s) manually.
Then you don't need to have physical hardware monitoring on each individual cell but still have an idea which sub-block is in trouble.

In fact any deviation from what is learned to appear "normal" is
flagged. Trick is learning enough about cells behavior by human programmer first, so the software later does what you want.

I'm sure there are other ways I didn't have time to explore much.

Victor

Shaun Williams wrote:
Thanks Victor,

This is similar to what Jukka was explaining, I think.

It's extremely valuable information and unfortunately, to prove if
this is ever going to be something that occurs often in the real world
and therefore justify the complications of single cell visibility, I
need to build a large pack, but I don't want t build and invest large
pack until I have a good idea of how I'm going to build it, catch-22.

Am I being overly optimistic in hoping that these fault conditions can
be detected by constant module (group of paralleled cells) voltage
monitoring during discharge (even at rest?) and comparing module to
module voltages?

I wonder how are Tesla doing it...


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Nobody wants my money.. (rant for the day)and More
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:30:19 -0400
  Seeya there?

  Bob

Well, you'll see me there since I am only about 10 miles from the track. I usually ride my motorcycle down, but I may need to bring something that can haul all the kids this year. We haven't been out to the track much and they always enjoy it.

I was originally hoping to finish up my truck in time to show it off, but those dreams fizzled away pretty fast. I keep my 16 year old boy too busy, and we haven't had much time to work on it yet. He's out of town again this week until the weekend, but starting next week his schedule is a lot better so we will probably start doing some more work. One thing about not being able to get it done in time is it made it easier for me to decide to go with the Electro Automotive Adapter plate. At first I was worried about the lead time, but now it doesn't matter. There is something awful nice about just being able to write a check to get exactly what you need. I'm as much a duct tape and bailing wire guy as anyone, so once in a while it's nice to have had someone else figure everything out.

Anyway, I will probably get my tow bar setup on the truck and drag it around for people to see in whatever state it happens to be in at the time. Most likely "Swiss Cheese", the motor, will be sitting in the bed. I'm sure Jim will want to have a few minutes alone with it, but other than that it will be availble for others to fondle :-)

BTW - if someone is looking for an air mattress to crash on and a few free hot meals feel free to contact me. I give first preference to anyone from Alaska since that is where I was born:-)

damon

_________________________________________________________________
Picture this – share your photos and you could win big! http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon G Schaeffer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:03 PM
Subject: VW Rabbits-conversion suggestions


I would first replace the gear shift bushings.  They come in a kit for
very little money.  Be sure the CV boots are  good.  High quality gas
shocks and struts are important.  My 96V flooded pack on a diesel
conversion didn't need new springs, but any more battery weight would
need them.
Gordon Schaeffer

 Hi Future Rabbit Guyz;

I found BMW 526 REAR springs/shocks are a drop in fix for the rear. I had 14 batterys in the rear axle area!Newer Jetta rear brake drums/backing plate fit nicely. Get rid of the scooter size rear brakes!that come with it. Diseasel front springs are USUALLY enough? Coil Spring Specialties made me NEW front springs, that took care of the droop. Asked them for 300 lbs more lift.

 Good Luck FINDING a decent Rabbit!

  Bob

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.10/876 - Release Date: 6/28/2007 10:56 AM



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can also grab this stuff on eBay:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=air-lift&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=78758&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search <http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=air-lift&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=78758&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search>

Danny

Andrew Letton wrote:

I have used and was happy with Air-Lift brand air bags to increase load capacity. They will sell you full kits with compressor, gauges, bags, plumbing, etc or they will sell you the individual bags if you want to source the other components yourself. I actually didn't have an on-board compressor and just used either a bike pump or the gas station compressor when I needed to adjust the pressure for greater load.
hth,
Andrew


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can a Sunrise body be fitted onto a Solectria Force? 
If so, I'd sure like the weight reduction, improved
aerodynamics, and rust-free body design!


Any comments regarding the feasibility would be
appreaciated.

Best regards,
Todd Martin
1997 Solectria Force
FVEAA


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for 
today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow  

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Brian,

Almost all mobile A/C systems have a low side pressure
switch.  Called a cycling switch.  And can either send
a YES/NO signal to the ECM or just interrupt the
control side of the compressor coil relay.

Jim
--- Brian Pikkula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This is probably a rather elementary question, but
> I'm not a mechanic
> so I'll have to ask.
> 
> What is the control mechanism for the compressor to
> kick on and off
> (ie how does it know)?  Is it a mechanical valve in
> the compressor, an
> electrical signal from the ECU from a pressure
> sensor down line, etc?
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
> 1998 VW Jetta TDI
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> On 6/27/07, Jim, Saturn Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Christopher,
> >
> > Hi, my name is Jim.  I am an ASE master mechanic
> and
> > have been toying with the A/C requirements of my
> own
> > EV. The direct drive is an OK idea, but the
> automotive
> > compressors have the electromechanical clutches on
> > them for a reason.  They are made to "cycle"
> > frequently under normal operating conditions. 
> Without
> > this "cycling" of the compressor, the system will
> not
> > operate as it was designed to do.  Start you ICE
> > vehicle, turn on the A/C and hold the engine RPM
> up at
> > 2000 like your going down the road.  No watch how
> > often the compressor cycles.  This action should
> be
> > duplicated using your direct drive.  And if it is
> > duplicated, I would think the life of your DC
> > accessory motor will be short.  I have been
> looking
> > into the possibility of using the compressor from
> a
> > wrecked Toyota Prius.  They use a
> "compressor/motor"
> > assembly.  There are no external moving parts. 
> Just
> > feed it power.  But I'm still investigating what
> the
> > power requirements are for these compressors.  If
> you
> > want to use the compressor you have, I would use
> belt
> > or chain drive and let the compressors clutch do
> it's
> > job.  Have fun!!
> >
> > Jim
> > --- Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2007-06-27 at 13:04 -0700, Alan Brinkman
> > > wrote:
> > > > Christopher,
> > > >
> > > > I wrote this huge reply to your message and
> > > deleted it and here are the
> > > > key points I can add.  I have trouble creating
> > > short messages.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the effort Alan, I really appreciate
> it.
> > > I'm going to fiddle
> > > around with the compressor and see what I can do
> > > with it, and I'll refer
> > > back to your email and Roland's and see if I
> > > understand more once I have
> > > the parts in front of me.  I'm hoping to do
> > > something like what you're
> > > talking about, attaching to the front face of
> the
> > > clutch/pulley
> > > assembly, and using the bolt into the shaft end
> to
> > > center everything.
> > > Balancing might be an issue especially if I
> weld,
> > > but we'll see how it
> > > goes...
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Christopher Robison
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://ohmbre.org          <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre
> +
> > > Z2K + Warp13!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network
> Research Panel today!  
>
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >
> >
> 
> 



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---

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