EV Digest 6977
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: WZ cool advertising was: Zombie Rips into the 11s !!!!
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Wayland Invitational ramblings (Re: Nobody wants my money.. )
by Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Zombie breaks nothing except 110 mph
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Zombie breaks nothing except 110 mph
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Separate chargers ... yes they work
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: ???kWh EV battery pack
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Fuse recommendation for a 108v pack
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Adapter Problem
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) tesla car
by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ???kWh EV battery pack
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: tesla car
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: tesla car
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: tesla car
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: tesla car
by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: tesla car
by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: BMS system basic requirements...Re: Cheap
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) How To View These Messages?
by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: J150 Battery
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: ???kWh EV battery pack
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) re.adaptor plates
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Getting set for a Sunday Workshop day
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: BMS system basic requirements...Re: Cheap
by "Shaun Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: ???kWh EV battery pack
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Hybrids done right, Re: Would you build if you could buy?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: ???kWh EV battery pack
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: re.adaptor plates
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Fastest EV conversion ever!
by "Richard Krog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: ???kWh EV battery pack
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Dial Down a Raptor's Max Amperage
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Fuse recommendation for a 108v pack
by Matt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) White Zombie and Friday Night Drags
by Daniel Eyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Who Killed the Electric Car T-shirts available at CafePress
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: How To View These Messages?
by James Drysdale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: How To View These Messages?
by "owen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
35) Re: NEDRA story on Zombie rips into the 11s
by "Thos True" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The body, frame and doors ???
The VIN # ??
;-P
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of David S
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 12:45 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: WZ cool advertising was: Zombie Rips into the 11s !!!!
>
>
> Is there any import left to it?
>
> Engine, tranny, rear end have all been replaced.
> This thing is now 100% grade A American mutt.
>
> Better hurry up and install a roll cage or they might shut you down after
> that first run with the A123's. :)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So who else is going to be in Portland that weekend?
(My boy and I will be there to represent the Aussies :-)
Who will be racing?
Anyone bringing EVs to the brunch and show on Saturday?
Any other events going on that weekend?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MIKE WILLMON
Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2007 1:49 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Wayland Invitational ramblings (Re: Nobody wants my money..
)
Damon, how'd you know I was coming down and bringing my whole family?
Boy are they a hungry crowd. What a great deal, free food and lodging.
Just what EVery EV family could hope for at the Wayland Invitational.
Just kidding about crashing your party though. My Mother-In-Law lives
2.1 miles from the track so we're set. I'll see ya'll there.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jun 29, 2007, at 10:16 PM, Roderick Wilde wrote:
On the final run of the night the little "White Zombie" lined up
against a snorting big block built to the hilt 455 cu in V8 stuffed
into a small light bright orange Pontiac Tempest with a black hood.
Of course it was no match as the Zombie reeled off another run in
the 11s with an ET of 11.960 at 110.14 mph. The poor Pontiac went
home with his tail between it's legs with a 12.523 at 108.7 mph. I
wonder when EV Muscle will become a mainstream gearhead turn.
Crap, I turn in early so I can get my Saturday shift over with and
almost miss all the fun!
Congratulations John and crew. Plasma Boy has invested a sweat and
cash clawing his way into the 11's with his little door-slammer.
I first met John and the White Zombie back in 1998. He had just
switched to Hawker Genesis batteries. The car was running in the high
15's at around 85 mph. Much has changed over the last 9 years!
After spending the last 3 years fighting to get out of the 12's
you've earned it. Great job!
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let me give this a quick edit...
On Jun 29, 2007, at 10:16 PM, Roderick Wilde wrote:
On the final run of the night the little "White Zombie" lined up
against a snorting big block built to the hilt 455 cu in V8 stuffed
into a small light bright orange Pontiac Tempest with a black hood.
Of course it was no match as the Zombie reeled off another run in
the 11s with an ET of 11.960 at 110.14 mph. The poor Pontiac went
home with his tail between it's legs with a 12.523 at 108.7 mph. I
wonder when EV Muscle will become a mainstream gearhead turn.
Crap, I turn in early so I can get my Saturday shift over with and
almost miss all the fun!
Congratulations John and crew. Plasma Boy has invested a lot of sweat
and cash clawing his way into the 11's with his little door-slammer.
I first met John and the White Zombie back in 1998. He had just
switched to Hawker Genesis batteries. The car was running in the high
15's at around 85 mph. Much has changed over the last 9 years!
After spending the last 3 years fighting to get out of the 12's
you've earned it. Great job!
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Several of us are using 1 charger per battery. I am
using Walmart Smart Chargers 6/12 V - 6/4/2 A. Really
way too small for an EV, but they get me my necessary
8 mile range. I think they could do 10 miles with a
12 hour charge. Better to use the 12, 15, 20 or 25 A
model. Remember these things taper charge so 6 A
isn't really any where near 6 A.
That is one way to get a balanced pack. Another very
good way is bypass voltage clamping regulators. I am
beginning to see why some people prefer those. If
your batteries are pretty much the same in capacity
and internal resistance, I think that is a better
option. I went for seperate chargers because at the
time, I had a mix of AGM, Flooded, Group 24, and Group
27 batts. I was testing to see what works best. So,
in that case, I pretty much had no choice. I went
with seperate chargers and have been very happy with
them.
In NiMH or Li Ion, I'd recommend bypass regulators
over seperate chargers. But, I'd recommend one
regulator on each group of cells either 1.35 V
(NiMH)or 4.2 V (Li Ion). Put 40 cells in parallel -
no problem as long as you put a fuse on each and every
one. Clamp the whole group with a single bypass
regulator of the proper voltage. Then, go ahead and
stack another block of 40 cells in series with that
block and so on and so on. Safe, moderately
expensive, and it works well on charge and discharge.
Steve
____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
if the number comes first, we are talking about amps, if it comes after,
we are talking about time.
5C is 5 times C a measure of the amps being drawn
C/5 is really 1/5 * C and is also a measure of the amps being drawn
C5 is the rate that discharges the battery in 5 hours
C20 is the rate that discharges the battery in 20 hours
I think. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
One of our members has a Fiero with a 108 volt pack with 18-GC135 Exides
and a DCP Raptor 1200 amp controller. The pack fuse is blown and he
would like to tap your recommendations for a replacement fuse.
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good explanation Dana!
On 6/30/07, Dana Havranek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There's not much design involved with the adaptor plate.
Just a couple things to keep track of.
One is to make sure the bellhousing holes are indexed to the center of the
crank and the other is to calculate the thickness you need to position the
motor shaft and coupling in relation to the transmisison input shaft.
It can be broken down into two separate problems.
6061 aluminum plate is nice to work with and be cut on a wood cutting band saw.
If you do it by the seat of your pants, you'll have to come up with a way to
index the plate to the center of the crank as you mark the bellhousing holes.
If you are dealing with a transaxle and the transmission input shaft is not
supported by a pilot bearing, you can index the plate to the transmission input
shaft and mark the bellhousing holes directly on the plate using transfer
punches. You just have to find a way to end up with an accurate location of the
center of the crank or tranmission input shaft in relation to the bellhousing
holes.
Have to drill the right diameter holes through the plate with a drill press.
A good way to split the adaptor plate problem into two separate problems is to
incorporate a spacer ring.
So you have to open up that accurately located center punch mark. little hole
or big hole that locates the center of the crank / trans shaft to accept a
spacer ring.
Problem is how to accurately open up that center hole especially with the tools
or limited machinery you might have.
You wil probably have to take it to a machine shop. If you have an end mill,
it's possible to accurately do it. Not pretty or easy, but possible.
The spacer ring has to be turned on a large metal lathe.
The spacer ring has to be indexed to the plate and this is done by machining a
flange on the spacer plate that fits the hole in the adapter plate. Chose the
diameter of the the center hole in the adaptor plate with a little thought and
you will only be screwing up the spacer ring if you goof up.
Plus if you ever want to change something later on, like a motor or go from
clutch to clutchless and need to adjust the distance between the motor and
transmission or mounting holes, you are only dealing with a spacer ring.
Then the spacer ring has to be accurately indexed to the center of the electric
motor shaft.
Once again you have to mark the holes after you fit the spacer ring to the
little flange on the motor which is concentric with the motor shaft.
You should end up with an adaptor plate with bellhousing holes that are
accurately located in relation to the center of the original ICE crank, the
center of the crank should be marked on the plate and accurately opened up to
the correct size hole to recieve a spacer ring. The spacer ring flange that
mates with the hole in the adaptor plate must be exactly concentric with the
center of the electric motor shaft.
So little motor flange fits into spacer ring, bolt holes marked, flange on
spacer ring concentric with hole that accepts little motor flange, everything
concentric.
Flange on spacer ring fits into hole in adaptor plate. Spacer ring gets bolted
to adaptor plate.
Adaptor plate hole is concentric with original ICE crank.
So motor shaft should be lined up with center of transmisison input shaft.
Of course, you still have to determine the thickness of the spacer ring so you
end up with the clutch disc hub in the correct operating position on the
transmission input shaft.
Whether it is clutchless or not.
The center hole and it's accurate position in relation to the bellhousing bolt
holes is critical on the adaptor plate.
There is less opportunity for error when machining the spacer ring concentric
holes and flanges on the lathe.
There are much better ways of doing this of course, like actually measuring
stuff or using modern machining methods.
It's more difficult to make up a taper lock hub or modify a taper lock hub at
home.
If ElectroAutomotive has your plate and hub, it is worth it to buy it from
them. There will be plenty of other work to do on the car..
I hope this helps a little
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> http://www.grassrootsev.com sells some excellent videos on how to make an
> adaptor. Even if you don't do it exactly that way you'll learn alot.
> http://www.metricmind.com also is excellent in detailing how Victor made his
> adaptor.
>
> I did my adaptor design in Emachine shop, and it was significantly more
> expensive than buying one from http://www.electroauto.com/ .
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 9:55:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Adapter Problem
>
>
> If I design my own adapter and have a machine shop make it is there
> some documentation, instructions, plans or something that I can get on
> exactly what to do?
> I am completely lost :(
> The only adapter I have made is to align the motor for a belt drive in
> my trimmer mower :^) ...
> and it has about and inch of tolerance:P
> --
> TEhben
> 'hElix EV'
> evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
> Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What motor does the Tesla car, can't seem to find that info on the website?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"5C is 5 times C a measure of the amps being drawn
C/5 is really 1/5 * C and is also a measure of the amps being drawn"
"C5 is the rate that discharges the battery in 5 hours
C20 is the rate that discharges the battery in 20 hours"
You said that 5C is a measure of "amps being drawn" and that C5 is
"the rate" that discharges the battery in 5 hours. But amps and rate
is the same thing. The rate of electricity flowing is measured in
amps. Amps is a measure of the rate of electricity flowing.
Can anyone explain this? (Or me if I'm wrong)
On 6/30/07, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
if the number comes first, we are talking about amps, if it comes after,
we are talking about time.
5C is 5 times C a measure of the amps being drawn
C/5 is really 1/5 * C and is also a measure of the amps being drawn
C5 is the rate that discharges the battery in 5 hours
C20 is the rate that discharges the battery in 20 hours
I think. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Three-Pase 4-pole AC electric motor. 90% average efficiency and 8-%
efficiency at full power. Should be under technical specs which should
be under engineering.
On 6/30/07, Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What motor does the Tesla car, can't seem to find that info on the website?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, and check out the blog post "Motor City" if you want a great
explanation of how the motor is controlled and other interesting info.
On 6/30/07, Joseph T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Three-Pase 4-pole AC electric motor. 90% average efficiency and 8-%
efficiency at full power. Should be under technical specs which should
be under engineering.
On 6/30/07, Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What motor does the Tesla car, can't seem to find that info on the website?
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From the Wikipedia entry for Tesla Roadster:
"Motor
* Type: 3-phase, 4-pole electric motor
* Max net power: 248 hp (185 kW)
* Max rpm: 13,500
* Efficiency: 90% average, 80% at peak power"
This "data" is taken from the rather vague "tech specs" page on
the Tesla Motors site, to which the Wikipedia article links.
It's an AC motor, produced IIRC by AC Propulsion.
The "AC Propulsion" article *sort of* backs me up on this. It
says, "Tesla have licensed technology from AC Propulsion". This
suggests to me that ACP is not actually manufacturing the motors for
Tesla. Who knows?
On 6/30/07, Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What motor does the Tesla car, can't seem to find that info on the website?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see that information, but no information on who makes them.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: tesla car
Three-Pase 4-pole AC electric motor. 90% average efficiency and 8-%
efficiency at full power. Should be under technical specs which should
be under engineering.
On 6/30/07, Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What motor does the Tesla car, can't seem to find that info on the
website?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Motor City?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: tesla car
Oh, and check out the blog post "Motor City" if you want a great
explanation of how the motor is controlled and other interesting info.
On 6/30/07, Joseph T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Three-Pase 4-pole AC electric motor. 90% average efficiency and 8-%
efficiency at full power. Should be under technical specs which should
be under engineering.
On 6/30/07, Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What motor does the Tesla car, can't seem to find that info on the
> website?
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jukka wrote:
> FETs and power electronics are a bit different from organic
> materials.
Yes, true enough; you are perhaps taking me too literally. My point is
that it is difficult to exactly match anything that we connect in
parallel, but that there are techniques for connecting them that can go
a long way toward minimising these sorts of problems.
Capacitors are nearer to your organic cells than to power devices and
proper attention to the connection details can make a significant
difference with them.
> Think about this:
>
> You choose in the assembly similar cells and cycle them. You
> manage to get 500 cycles out and after that you get 50 % out
> of the pack. you open the pack and balance it and after 50
> cycles the balance is off again.
Perhaps I've given you the impression that I am against BMS; this is
absolutely not the case. What I have stated is that if someone connects
many small cells in parallel, it is economically infeasible to try to
implement a BMS for each individual cell in the array. It is absolutely
still necessary to implement a BMS that manages each of these arrays
(macro cell, if you like). Yes, there are some tradeoffs one must
expect with this approach vs using and managing a single large cell in
place of the array.
> You take any QC passed cell with less than 10% tolerance and
> add it in to te pack. You let the BMS to manipulate a reversed
> wearing effect on the cells anf after 500 cycles they are in
> line. With less than 1 % of differences in internal resistance
> and capacity. THEN pack stays over 50% of the original capacity
> over 4000 cycles. Even the hairdresser is happier than EVer.
No, the hairdresser grew old and died before she could get 4000 cycles
on her battery! ;^>
Remember, it [hypothetically] took me over 19yrs to get 500 cycles on
mine.
> You need to know more about the use. Unless you let the system learn
> your driving habits.
>
> I choose to do it in a way that mostly the system works on learned
> behaviour. Only on reguest throug user interface you can choose 100%
> SOC. It can be enabled with SMS and in future through our Extranet
> service. You register and login. Then you can access the system you
> have purchased and even modify the GUI on the screen in your vehicle.
> With certain limitations. Adn you can do it ANYTIME. Nearly
everywhere.
>
> Usability, warranty and safety. System is not just about how
> to balance and keep the worst scenorios out. Agreed ?
It does sound wonderful, but I suspect, overkill for many applications.
If the price is right, having features one (the end user) doesn't really
need isn't a problem. I think your 1000cycles/5yrs/100,000mi, etc.
warranty target is sensible, but as a consumer would not particularly
value paying more for the battery system because of promises of
4000cycles/20yrs/300,000mi, etc. given that battery technology will
march on and prices will drop, and there is a very real possibility that
long before my I try to make a warranty claim the company that sold it
to me will have disappeared.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Currently I'm using Outlook Express to view this discussion board and then
have it setup to group the messages into groups based on subject.
I was wondering what's your preffered method to view this disscusion group?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
> I've read about these batteries [Trojan J150]. I wonder -
> if they're effectively just two 6v golf car batteries,
> why not use the golf car batteries?
> They shouldn't weigh much more, and will give you more
> flexibility in your battery layout.
Mainly because they aren't 6V GCs merged together, but rather a 6V GC
with its plates divided into 6 cells rather than 3. It's a flooded 12V
battery made from the same plates as the deep cycle 6VGC, but with
roughly half the capacity and 2x the voltage.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
> > Most flooded PbA batteries will also have a
> > capacity rating specified at the 5-hour rate
> > (C/5, or often C.sub.5).
>
> I think this is usually expressed as C5. I'm pretty sure the
> expression C/5 means the 20 hour capacity divided by 5. (But
> I might be wrong. This nomenclature is terribly confusing.)
Yes, the nomenclature is quite confusing. If there is some BCI or other
standard somewhere spelling it out, I haven't come across it yet.
I don't believe I've seen this expressed as "C5", but have definitely
seen the "C.sub.5" version in battery manufacturer literature.
I also am quite certain that at least some manufacturers use "C/n" to
refer to the "capacity at the n-hour rate", or "capacity when discharged
over n-hours", but that doesn't mean there aren't some that use it in
the way you suggest. In my experience, when the intent is to specify a
fraction of the capacity, the notation will either explicitly identify
the period over which the capacity is measured (e.g. "C.sub.20/5"), or
it will simply state "C/5" and elsewhere in the document "C" will be
defined to be the capacity at some stated rate, such as 20hr or 5hr,
etc.
When in doubt, reread the document carefully in its entirety! ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, there's been quite a bit of traffic about TS batteries lately. I'm glad
Nikki has agreed to be our guinea pig.
Keep us updated Nikki. I'm curious about immediate performance as well as
long-term life cycle and how they perform in various temperatures.
Rich A.
Subject: Re: Getting set for a Sunday Workshop day
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body
On 30 Jun 2007 at 8:59, Nikki Bloomfield wrote:
Any guesses on how fast I'll go now?
I don't think I'll guess. I've heard that the TS cells sag quite a bit
(someone correct me if that's wrong), so under load they may actually have
*less* voltage than your 42v of lead batteries. On the flat, the lower mass
will reduce rolling resistance a bit, but I doubt that it will have a
dramatic effect on top speed. No doubt you will get there faster though
(better acceleration), and you should be able to climb hills faster.
I just hope you're not getting a batch of substandard TS cells, as some on
the EVDL did a few years ago.
In any case, let us know how things work out.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
_________________________________________________________________
Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now.
Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_June07
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey guys did you see over at the GM-Volt blog an interview (June 21)
with A123 Systems co-founder Bart Riley, GM want a 15 year warranty
for the Volts battery pack!
http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/06/21/gm-volt-exclusive-interview-and-podcast-with-a123-co-founder-cto-and-vp-of-rd-bart-riley-on-building-the-volts-battery-pack/
(The good stuff is in the podcast)
Also, when asked if the battery pack capacity was around 16kWh he said
he didn't know.
I'll keep my Chevy Volt scepticism to myself. :-)
Shaun
www.electric-echo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, it was, perhaps, poorly worded.
5C means drawing current equivelent to five times the rated capacity.
I.e. if the battery was rated at 100Ah, then 5C means 500 amps.
So if the number is first, it indicates to multiply this number by the
rated capacity.
If the number comes after the C, then it indicates the capacity divided by
this number. Again C5 on a 100Ah battery would indicate 20 amps.
If we were talking about ideal batteries, with no peukert effect, then the
number after the C would indicate how many hours the battery would last at
this discharge rate.
As has been mentioned, the BIGGEST problem with this system is that it is
not standardised. Some battery manufactures will use C5 to indicate how
much current you can ACTUALLY draw from the batteries for a full five
hours(probably most common usage). But others may use this term to
indicate the 20hr rate divided by 5.
Additionally, some manufactures will list performance of their batteries
at 2C, 5C, etc. but not indicate whether C in this case means C at the
20hr rate, or C at the one hour rate.
> "5C is 5 times C a measure of the amps being drawn
> C/5 is really 1/5 * C and is also a measure of the amps being drawn"
>
> "C5 is the rate that discharges the battery in 5 hours
> C20 is the rate that discharges the battery in 20 hours"
>
>
> You said that 5C is a measure of "amps being drawn" and that C5 is
> "the rate" that discharges the battery in 5 hours. But amps and rate
> is the same thing. The rate of electricity flowing is measured in
> amps. Amps is a measure of the rate of electricity flowing.
> Can anyone explain this? (Or me if I'm wrong)
>
>
> On 6/30/07, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> if the number comes first, we are talking about amps, if it comes after,
>> we are talking about time.
>>
>> 5C is 5 times C a measure of the amps being drawn
>> C/5 is really 1/5 * C and is also a measure of the amps being drawn
>>
>>
>> C5 is the rate that discharges the battery in 5 hours
>> C20 is the rate that discharges the battery in 20 hours
>>
>> I think. :-)
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 30 Jun 2007 at 7:29, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> All the sales guys kept saying over and over, "You don't want one of
> those, you want a hybrid civic...
Honda's been taking pages from GM's EV1 sales book, I see. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 30 Jun 2007 at 10:18, Philippe Borges wrote:
> C/5 is Capacity (C) divided by 5 >>hours<<
I'm pretty sure that C/5 is a >current<. It is the battery's 20h (20 hour)
capacity expressed in amps, divided by 5.
Cx (where x is a number) is measure of capacity in amp-hours.
C is the 20 hour capacity expressed as amperes. Thus,
x * C (or) C / x (x * C is the same as xC)
is a measure of current in amperes.
These last figures are not qualities of the battery so much as ways of
relating currents that are relevant to the battery's use. For example, it's
common for manufacturers to specify maximum charge and discharge current for
a particular range of battery in terms of C. Maximum discharge current
might be 5C, while maximum charge current might be C/5. (These numbers will
differ with different manfacturers and different ranges of batteries.
For example, let's look at a standard 220ah (105 min @ 75 amps) golf car
battery.
C20 = 220ah
C5 = 164ah
C = 220 amps
C/5 = 44 amps
5C = 1100 amps
Confusing, isn't it?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Easy after 36, yes. Daunting for the first time, also yes.
Especially if you never have seen the inside of a bell housing before.
Brian
On 6/30/07, Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a story of the first 24-hours with my donor car...
On Wednesday, I took delivery of a 1973 Porsche 914 with plans to
convert it using Electro Automotive's Voltsporsche kit. On Thursday,
I drove it to work to evaluate it as a donor car. It seems perfect --
nice paint job, no rust, good working brakes, clutch and transmission.
A few hundred feet into my home commute, the engine died from what I
later discovered was a broken fuel pump. I pulled off the road into a
corporate driveway and rolled to a stop leaving just enough room for
cars to get by. I knew I truly had my glider.
A minute later, a very irate DHL truck driver blasted his horn at me
because he couldn't find enough space to get past. Instead of getting
out and pushing the car in 95 degree heat, I remembered a old trick my
father told me -- I put it in first gear, released the clutch and
cranked the ignition key! Slowly but surely, the poor little 12v
battery and starter motor pushed me forward just enough for the truck
to pass.
I know that doesn't count as an EV yet, but I had a grin on my face nonetheless.
Richard
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 30 Jun 2007 at 21:43, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> If the number comes after the C, then it indicates the capacity divided by
> this
> number. Again C5 on a 100Ah battery would indicate 20 amps.
That's not my understanding of it. What you're describing would be written
as C/5. C5 is the 5 hour capacity.
Now, I could be wrong. I think we need some coaching from Nawaz. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Resend:
Is there a way to dial down the maximum amperage output of a Raptor 1200?
One of our EV owners wants to extend his range and was thinking that
dialing down the amperage would help in extending his range.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 20:00:56 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>One of our members has a Fiero with a 108 volt pack with 18-GC135 Exides
>and a DCP Raptor 1200 amp controller. The pack fuse is blown and he
>would like to tap your recommendations for a replacement fuse.
>
>Peter
>
>
I would like some recommendations also. I have upgraded from 96
nominal to 120 volts. I have the old 400 amp fuse in place. Should I
upgrade?
R. M. Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
This machine has been garaged for 17 years.
I am trying to get it running. Tabitha, my daughter,
named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black, electric
and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was really fun and a privilege to watch John and
Tim break into the 11's. I had to leave early, but
don't remember anyone else getting below 12.0 seconds.
The weather kept most away, but the evening was dry
and every run got better. A friend came with me and
was really impressed by the car and how quiet it was.
He thought it was just rolling at first, then realized
it was going under power. I think I am getting the bug
to do some electric dragging and have to give the
credit to John for getting it. Best wishes to John and
Tim on their next outing. Dan Eyk
Daniel Eyk
Vancouver, Wa.
Electric S-10 project
E-15 project
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Who Killed the Electric Car T-Shirts" are now available at CafePress.
http://www.cafepress.com/pluginamerica/3225074
Proceeds benefit Plug In America.
Chip Gribben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
> Currently I'm using Outlook Express to view this discussion board and
> then have it setup to group the messages into groups based on subject.
>
> I was wondering what's your preffered method to view this disscusion
> group?
I sort them by date usually.
Even if I am a day or two behind in messages, I find it easier to browse
the discussions.
Sometimes I sort by subject, although I find that more of a pain.
Sure, all the messages of that subject are neatly grouped, but flicking
between them becomes a bother, when the next subject in alphabetical
order is a few weeks behind in date.
So I sort by date & keep an eye out for the subject headers.
Chronologically go through one subject, reply if I have something useful
to add (novice here - so not really) then go for the next one.
Cheers,
James Drysdale.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
same as that
owen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 2:15 PM
Subject: How To View These Messages?
Currently I'm using Outlook Express to view this discussion board and then
have it setup to group the messages into groups based on subject.
I was wondering what's your preffered method to view this disscusion
group?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
