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X-Mailer: IncrediMail (5653017)
From: "Sam--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: tesla car .. tango .. sunrise !
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:51:11 +0530
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i guess with the tremendous understanding about
things, the sunrise may be a good option
all the best for its success
..peekay
(and thanks for the patient replies to ALL my questions)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> We just hired our first employee; a student to help with the sanding and
> body prep for the Sunrise body. Things are picking up.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Poles And Phases
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:28:54 -0500
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Actually, I think 3 phase is common because it takes less copper to
transport a given amount of power with 3 phase as opposed to single phase.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: Poles And Phases
> It can also refer to AC phasors. Three phase electricity comes from
> three physical phases in a generator. Or from 6 physical phases, or
> 12 physical phases, and so on. The reason for using three phase
> power is that three sinewaves added up 120 degrees out of phase makes
> a constant line -- no pulsations. Much smoother than a single phase
> AC motor which the power waveform is essentially a sin^2 or
> (cos)*(sin) waveform -- pulsating.
>
> Z
>
> On 7/2/07, Joseph T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>"Phases" are how many sets of windings a motor has. They are kind of
>> >>like the number of pistons in an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine). More
>> >>phases complicates the design, but smooths out the power pulsations.
>>
>>
>> Really? I thought "phases" refered to three-phase electricity which is
>> used in electric motors.
>>
>> On 7/2/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
>> > > What does pole and phases mean?
>> >
>> > "Poles" are like the poles of a magnet; North pole and South pole. The
>> > pole count of a motor is always an even number because poles always
>> > come
>> > in North-South pairs.
>> >
>> > "Phases" are how many sets of windings a motor has. They are kind of
>> > like the number of pistons in an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine). More
>> > phases complicates the design, but smooths out the power pulsations.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ring the bells that still can ring
>> > Forget the perfect offering
>> > There is a crack in everything
>> > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>> > --
>> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database:
> 269.9.8/869 - Release Date: 6/25/2007 5:32 PM
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: a/c for EVs
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:29:39 -0500
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Where in AL. I am in Alabaster (just southwest of Birmingham).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 7:48 PM
Subject: a/c for EVs
Curiosity question, esp. since I live in the south (Alabama). Many ICE
vehicles that are converted to EVsdo not have factory a/c. Has anyone
rigged up an EV to use a small window a/c unit to substitutefor factory a/c?
I've seen quite a few that use ceramic heaters for heat in the
winter....Thanks, Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Play free games, earn tickets, get cool prizes! Join Live Search Club.
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.8/869 - Release Date: 6/25/2007
5:32 PM
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 21:56:50 -0600
From: Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Hybrid battery packs
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See posts made by Doug Hartley in September 2004. He implemented a
AGM/Li-ion hybrid pack that he said works well. Doug, do you have any
updates on that? You were talking about adding some additional monitoring.
Bill Dennis
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> I see that hybrid battery packs are being discussed again.
>
> I know they get discussed a lot, but I'm curious, has anyone ever
> successfully implemented a hybrid battery pack? If so, was it worth the
> effort?
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:33:26 +0100
From: Thomas Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Thermally effective adhesive
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Thanks for the advice everyone,
Danny,
have you ever used "arctic silver/alumina" to bond an IGBT to a
heatsinking case? Or do you just think it will work?
If this is an epoxy its not going to be easy to remove?
You don't think strain in the IGBT is an issue?
Danny Miller wrote:
> Gasket sealers don't conduct heat.
>
> For a thermal and mechanical bond, you need "arctic silver" or "arctic
> alumina" thermal epoxy. The key here is it's a relatively strong
> thermal conductor. Still a bit high relative to thermal joint compound,
> but way better than silicone or anything else.
>
> Ideally you should just bolt it and use joint compound. Thermal joint
> compound has a better thermal conduction, is not bothered by thermal
> expansion, and can't fail by breaking off.
> Note that flatness and rigidity of the heatsink surface is important.
> If the case is thin metal, it will distort and pull in around the bolt
> and separate near the pad. Joint compound will not do a great job of
> filling the gap, the thermal conduction coefficient will be awful and
> thus severely reduce the device's capacity.
>
> Danny
>
> GWMobile wrote:
>
>> There are high temperature gasket sealers made for ice motors that
>> might work.
>>
>> On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 5:49 pm, Lee Hart wrote:
>>
>>> From: Thomas Ward
>>>
>>>> I am considering bonding an integrated IGBT DIP module to the
>>>> aluminum base of a watercooled box. Is this sensible?
>>>
>>>
>>> I wouldn't depend on any kind of adhesive as the sole means of
>>> support in an application like this. I assume the IGBT will be
>>> producing heat, so there will be thermal stress on the bond.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
>>> --
>>> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
>> and the melting poles.
>>
>> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>>
>
>
From: "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Dessicant
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:31:29 -0600
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>> Is it a good idea to put dessicant sachets inside a controller?
It will not be effective. The design really needs to be sealed properly. If
the assembly is potted, the potting needs to stick effectively to everything
and form a seal. Any air expansion area really needs to be treated as if it
were full of water. The traditional potting compound used for automotive
controllers is a two-part silicone gel that never sets. It is self-healing
and resists water. It is commonly found in ignition modules. Even with the
remarkable sealing properties, occasionally water damage still occurs.
If the assembly is not potted, it needs to be sealed but allowed also to
breathe with a water impermeable membrane such as a Gore-Tex plug. These are
commonly used on IC engine control modules for this purpose. The Bosch M7
controllers are commonly found underhood, and these have such a plug.
Motorola ICE controllers (Cummins, Saturn, Chrysler, Mercury Marine) have
these plugs - you can see them easily.
If you do not have a pressure equalizing plug, any moisture tends to get
drawn in by temperature fluctuations - even up the wires!!! Many years ago
GM had a problem with coolant being drawn into the engine control computer
via the coolant temperature sensor wires.
-Dale
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From: Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: BVS track day
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 06:38:24 +0100
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Hi Folks,
We had a great time. I only went on the Saturday as I was busy on the
Sunday starting work on my Lithium Ion conversion. I couldn't take
the City El as I don't have towing on my license and it was a bit too
far for the El to travel on Lead. We took our Prius and an electric
bike though and had a great time. There's some more photographs here
http://flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/sets/72157600590946651/ and of
course some coverage on the BVS' new website at http://
www.batteryvehiclesociety.org.uk/wordpress/ .
I can't wait till next year!
On Jul 4, 2007, at 12:37 AM, Rod Hower wrote:
> Paul,
> Nice looking bike! Sorry about the motor mishap.
> Hopefully the Alltrax survived the motor meltdown.
> Rod
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:59:14 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dessicant
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If it is sealed, then the dessicant gets the last little bit of moisture
out of the air that was around during assembly and the little bit the
creeps in over time.
If it is not well sealed then it just saturates and stops helping,
(Maybe even making it harder to get things dry in the future.)
PS for those that don't know, the silica gel dessicant is reversable. we
had a tube of it that was pink when it was dry and turned blue as it got
wet.
This was used to calibrate or dry out the dew point meter. Eventually
the desiccant beads would get poured out on a plate and microwaved for a
minute to drive off the moisture, then put back in the calibration tube.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 23:01:57 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: The Pontiac Fiero as an EV
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I have friends with fiero's.
They are known for haveing poor brakes in the earlier years and
especially in the 4 banger models.
Putting 87 brakes from the V6 GT or a 90's era grand am is a very common
upgrade. Also replacing the stock brakes lines, they were a little long
for rubber and swell under pressure giving the trademark soft pedal.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: BB 600's
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 02:49:55 -0400
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Hi EVerybody;
Micro Sloth is up to it's old stuff! My note an BB600's bounced, said I
wasn't subscribed to the List? Like hell! Have been for YEARS, but I'll use
one of my notes that DID get through.Wipe it clean and forward.
Point here, Oh, I'm GETTING to it! Anybody want/need some BB600's, like
for a bike, scooter? A reasonable load for a Prius, as I would deliver on my
Portland Pilgrimage in a few daze.Would help defray the expences, too.
Seeya at PDX
Bob
From: "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Thermally effective adhesive
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:45:47 -0600
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>You don't think strain in the IGBT is an issue?
I would suggest that the mounting method recommended by the
manufacturer be followed, which, in most cases, for a DIP
IGBT module, would be heat sink goop and screws into a flat
aluminum heatsink or heat spreader.
If you do not require a lot of heat transfer, Loctite 315,
3151, 383, 384, 3872, 3873, or 3874 are designed for the job.
You will need to consult the datasheets for the right one for
you. It is possible that even this method, with the glues
meant for that, may result in a die attachment failure within
your module. Epoxy, or JB weld, is not designed for this and
may cause the module to fail due to the mechanical stresses of
expansion. Be cautious of the thermal transfer capabilites of
anything other than a very flat metal-to-metal contact with
minimal amounts of grease. You can build up a lot of heat
very quickly if you don't calculate these properly. The result
will invariably be a failed module, and typically, it happens
later rather than sooner. Or when you screw up, you know about
it when 1,000 units come back from the field just two days
before the warranty is up... :-(
Older Cummins engine control computers (the old N14 controller)
used piles of TO-220 devices (maybe 25 or 30 of them) glued
onto the heat spreaders using one of these products.
The heat spreaders were cooled by diesel fuel.
-Dale
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 03:01:20 -0400
From: "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: [EV] USA Today sticks foot in mouth with 25 cars that made a
difference.
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Of course the article's title *actually* refers to the Impact, a
one-off (or at least few-off) show-car predecessor to the EV1, which
AFAIK was never offered for sale- hence no buyers. Also if only two
Impacts were built and one caught fire that would yield an "alarming"
rate of car fires...
On 7/3/07, Joseph T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please...GM could've made the EV1 fire-proof. Few went on fire anyway;
> it's not like it cause chaos.
>
> On 7/3/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > No buyers huh.... perhaps that was because GM refused to sell
> > them????? I'd buy one if they were available.
> >
> > On 7/3/07, Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jul 03, 2007 at 04:05:21PM -0700, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/top25-vehicles.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > ouch.
> > >
> > > did at least one catch fire recharging?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Eduardo K. |
> > > http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
> > > http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
> > > |
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Zeke Yewdall
> > Chief Electrical Engineer
> > Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
> > Cell: 720.352.2508
> > Office: 303.459.0177
> > FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.cosunflower.com
> >
> > CoSEIA Certified
> > Certified BP Solar Installer
> > National Association of Home Builders
> >
> > Quotable Quote
> >
> > "In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
> > in the dead of winter, war spreading,
> > families dying, the world in danger,
> > I walk the rocky hillside
> > sowing clover."
> >
> > Wendell Berry
> >
> >
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: bike spedos in evs
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 02:04:35 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
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You might also want to check www.aimsports.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mccabe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: bike spedos in evs
> Brian,
> I use one of these in my 928 Porsche . It has speedo,
> tach,odometer, trip mter,outside temp. $motor temp.
> hookups. Plus it only cost $99.
>
> http://trailtech.net/computers.html
>
> --- Brian Pikkula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone put a bicycle spedo (aka computer) in
>> their ev? Are there
>> any other options for speedometers?
>>
>>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/BICYCLE-ODOMETER-SPEEDOMETER-BIKE-CYCLING-COMPUTER_W0QQitemZ330142869559QQihZ014QQcategoryZ30108QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>>
>> --
>> Brian in TX
>> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
>> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
>> It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a
>> cellular level I'm
>> really quite busy.
>>
>>
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 01:20:11 -0500
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Thermally effective adhesive
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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I've used it to mount thin, high power, temp sensitive Lamina LED
emitters to thick aluminum. It's good stuff. That company knows
thermal materials.
It's strong stuff if used within date. Expired, kinda spotty results.
Pretty low thermal resistance. The mating surface needs to be very flat.
You ain't gonna be removing it if it bonds properly, hope you never need
to replace it. But any glue bond can be flawed for any number of
reasons and it's not impossible that it could be debond on its own.
If you remove an epoxied component or have a failed joint that left
epoxy on the mating surface, we have a problem. It may be difficult to
remove the residue while retaining the flatness of the aluminum mating
surface and that will have consequences of raising the thermal
resistance significantly.
I would hesitate to do this sort of permanent mount on a case with a
somewhat failure-prone component, and would be concerned about that
possibility that the device might break free since there's no bolting
system providing guaranteed pressure. Without some extra "no other way
to do it" factor, I'd bolt and use thermal joint compound.
Danny
Thomas Ward wrote:
> Thanks for the advice everyone,
>
> Danny,
>
> have you ever used "arctic silver/alumina" to bond an IGBT to a
> heatsinking case? Or do you just think it will work?
>
> If this is an epoxy its not going to be easy to remove?
>
> You don't think strain in the IGBT is an issue?
>
>
> Danny Miller wrote:
>
>> Gasket sealers don't conduct heat.
>>
>> For a thermal and mechanical bond, you need "arctic silver" or
>> "arctic alumina" thermal epoxy. The key here is it's a relatively
>> strong thermal conductor. Still a bit high relative to thermal joint
>> compound, but way better than silicone or anything else.
>>
>> Ideally you should just bolt it and use joint compound. Thermal
>> joint compound has a better thermal conduction, is not bothered by
>> thermal expansion, and can't fail by breaking off.
>> Note that flatness and rigidity of the heatsink surface is
>> important. If the case is thin metal, it will distort and pull in
>> around the bolt and separate near the pad. Joint compound will not
>> do a great job of filling the gap, the thermal conduction coefficient
>> will be awful and thus severely reduce the device's capacity.
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> GWMobile wrote:
>>
>>> There are high temperature gasket sealers made for ice motors that
>>> might work.
>>>
>>> On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 5:49 pm, Lee Hart wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Thomas Ward
>>>>
>>>>> I am considering bonding an integrated IGBT DIP module to the
>>>>> aluminum base of a watercooled box. Is this sensible?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't depend on any kind of adhesive as the sole means of
>>>> support in an application like this. I assume the IGBT will be
>>>> producing heat, so there will be thermal stress on the bond.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
>>>> --
>>>> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>>>> leeahart-at-earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes,
>>> globalwarming and the melting poles.
>>>
>>> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>>>
>>
>>
>
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 00:49:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: High voltage cable protection and color coding
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
What about something like this?
http://cableorganizer.com/wire-loom/colored.html
----- Original Message ----
From: Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 3:11:29 PM
Subject: RE: High voltage cable protection and color coding
On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 14:37 -0700, Roger Stockton wrote:
> I wonder if I might be better off sticking with grey rather than mixing
> colours and confusing someone into thinking that the grey flexible
> conduit is safe to cut through since the orange rigid lengths ~must~ be
> the high voltage ones? ;^> Maybe someone will solve my dilemma by
> advising that the flexible conduit is available in orange also?
It is, but I've found that it's extremely expensive. Flexible
nonmetallic conduit in orange is typically a variation rated for high
continuous flexing (2 layers of PVC with a layer of nylon between them)
which I can't find for a reasonable price anywhere. The cheapest I've
found for 1.5" (large enough for 2 2/0 cables) is approximately $1100
for a 100' coil. Compare to the normal grey stuff I just bought at less
than 1/5th that price.
Incidentally, I might as well mention we're starting a conversion
business in the Austin, TX area, and as a side business we'll also be
selling certain parts and materials. Some relevant items we'll be
offering are orange Anderson connectors of various sizes and bright
orange 600V fine-strand welding cable, custom lengths; we'll even crimp
ends on (with boots and heavy adhesive shrink-wrapped hex crimps, the
whole nine yards).
If anyone's interested, contact me off-list.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 01:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dessicant
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
there's a product coin collector's use, might be worth a look:
http://www.vci2000.com/html/emitters.html
- Tony
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 5:42:34 PM
Subject: Re: Dessicant
From: Thomas Ward
> Is it a good idea to put dessicant sachets inside a controller?
I think it's a good idea, and worth a try. I've seen evidence of water damage
inside at least two Curtis controllers, showing that significant amounts of
water did get inside.
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
