EV Digest 6992

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Fixing a 24v Currie Charger
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Motors
        by "Sam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Free energy
        by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Highlighting EV's To Others
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) A Welder as a Power Supply
        by Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Highlighting EV's To Others
        by "John A. Evans - N0HJ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EV fire
        by "R. Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Solar Powered NEV
        by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Solar Powered NEV -Why?
        by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: A Welder as a Power Supply
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11) RE: Highlighting EV's To Others
        by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: A Welder as a Power Supply
        by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: A Welder as a Power Supply
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 14) Re: Free energy
        by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Hybrid battery packs
        by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: OT:  Free energy
        by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: OT
        by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: conversions
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 19) Re: OT
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 20) OT: Free Energy
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 21) STOP THE BS !!!   Re: OT
        by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) RE: conversions
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 23) Re: Hybrid battery packs
        by Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: OT
        by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Free energy (for EVs!!)
        by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Free energy (OT)
        by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: OT
        by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Hybrid battery packs
        by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: OT
        by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: OT nuclear batteries
        by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) how much dc to get about 450 v ac
        by "owen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 32) RE: conversions
        by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 33) Re: Free Energy
        by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Model 31021 24v charger.  It uses a MCR264 4 Motorola 9612 Mosfet to control
the negative side output.  I'm only getting 21vdc out of the diode bridge.
I suspect the mosfet is bad.  As I remember the polarity was reversed.  The
board is a PC1029N REV. D 94V0.  I shorted the input or other side to the
center leg with my test lead and the amber light goes on.  I suspect it
isn't switching anymore..  A replacement might fix it.  Can I just buy this
board?  I've seen many different versions of this charger with the same
case.  It has the handle built in.  Is heavy and outputs 5 amps.  Lawrence
Rhodes......

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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--------------Boundary-00=_KPDOSPT1VA4000000000"
X-Mailer: IncrediMail (5653017)
From: "Sam--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 18:03:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Free energy
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
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ROTFLMAO

I used to have something similar sitting on my desk.  It would spin for
months before you have to replace the battery hidden in the base.

I think you can still buy them at Spencers.

I love the challenge, "We invite anyone to test this, but only scientists
that we approve of."

> I'll follow this with skeptical interest. If true, practical applications
> that generate useful levels of surplus energy will be years away, but I'm
> all for cheating physics. Here's the news video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ-GxSCSAHU
>
> Lon Hull,
> Portland, OR
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 5:04 AM
> Subject: Free energy
>
>
>>I know some of you can't imagine something like that but whether you
>>believe it or not, the irish company Steorn which back in august took out
>> a
>>full page ad in the economist with a white glove slap in the face of the
>>'scientific' community, is claiming a 10 day public demonstration in
>> London
>>of the device starting this week and various reports indicate that it
>> will
>>be today.
>>
>> part of me hopes that today we will be able to say 'today we celebrate
>> our
>> independence day'
>>
>> Dan
>>
>
>


-- 
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:54:07 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Highlighting EV's To Others
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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I think you left out the biggest categories for us.

conversions and conversion for hire, and race.

Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:10:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: A Welder as a Power Supply
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I was just thinking. Has anyone tried to use a welder to change the AC power of 
a generator to the DC power needed to run a DC EV? I have been thinking of 
creating a range extending generator power supply for my EV, but I haven't 
figured out how to get the AC to DC in high enough DC voltage and amps to keep 
my car going. I can cruse at 50 plus miles an hour at about 50 amps. My battery 
pack is a 108 volt pack. I have found welders that have a 110 volt output with 
different amp outputs some vary from 20 amps to 300 amps. Could I rig up a 
combination that would give me the volts and amps I need to keep going without, 
well welding everything in my car together? 

joE ladO 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:18:57 -0600
From: "John A. Evans - N0HJ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Highlighting EV's To Others
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Race shouldn't be an issue here ;)

john

Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I think you left out the biggest categories for us.
>
> conversions and conversion for hire, and race.
>
>
>
>   
From: "R. Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EV fire
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:28:28 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:41:33 -0700, you wrote:

>I witnessed an EV fire where the battery cables shorted to sheet metal where 
>they came thru the body steel.  It is insufficient to use a simple rubber 
>grommet to protect a 2/0 cable because of high stresses from the cable 
>combined with sharp edges of the steel.  What is needed is a strong 
>insulating feed thru panel made from a material such as glastic or phenolic, 
>combined with an insulating clamp or strain relief.  It also helps to have a 
>fuse in the middle of the battery pack.  Another safety strategy is to have 
>an Anderson plug to completely disconnect the battery from the car 
>propulsion when Ev is being charged or stored.
>

  I used 1.25 inch and 3/4 inch watertight electrical connectors from
Lowes.  They have a rubber seal that fits tight to the cable.  Cable
does not touch metal.  Screw down the cap and it tightens around your
cable.  You will need a knockout set to pull out the holes.

  R. M. Milliron

1981 Jet Electrica  
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702

  This machine has been garaged for 17 years. 
I am trying to get it running. Tabitha, my daughter,
named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black, electric 
and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:31:01 -0500
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Solar Powered NEV
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

HI folks,

I just stumbled on this and I thought I should pass it along.

http://www.aboutmyplanet.com/alternative-energy/solar/solar-diy-car-kit

also at:

http://www.sunnev.com/proto.htm

I have always been been pretty dismissive of NEVs and of solar panels 
on EVs, but in this case there is some logic in it all.

Thanks,


Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html

In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme 
position. (Horace) 
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:41:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Solar Powered NEV -Why?
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

When you can have a Solar Charge EV that can drive
down the road? See link: www.xlr8sun.com
Found this link after last years Battery Beach Burnout
Photos were posted. Solar Charged Cycle down by
Jerry's  neck of the Woods in Florida.
--- Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> HI folks,
> 
> I just stumbled on this and I thought I should pass
> it along.
> 
>
http://www.aboutmyplanet.com/alternative-energy/solar/solar-diy-car-kit
> 
> also at:
> 
> http://www.sunnev.com/proto.htm
> 
> I have always been been pretty dismissive of NEVs
> and of solar panels 
> on EVs, but in this case there is some logic in it
> all.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at:
> http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at:
> http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
> 
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate,
> not the extreme 
> position. (Horace) 
> 
> 



       
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 20:53:29 EDT
Subject: Re: A Welder as a Power Supply
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 7/4/2007 5:12:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
> ubj: A Welder as a Power Supply 
> Date:7/4/2007 5:12:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> To:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Received from Internet: 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just thinking. Has anyone tried to use a welder to change the AC power 
> of a generator to the DC power needed to run a DC EV? I have been thinking 
> of creating a range extending generator power supply for my EV, but I haven't 
> figured out how to get the AC to DC in high enough DC voltage and amps to 
> keep my car going. I can cruse at 50 plus miles an hour at about 50 amps. My 
> battery pack is a 108 volt pack. I have found welders that have a 110 volt 
> output with different amp outputs some vary from 20 amps to 300 amps. Could I 
> rig 
> up a combination that would give me the volts and amps I need to keep going 
> without, well welding everything in my car together? 
> 
> joE ladO
The welders you see with 100 volts ect.are CC(constant current)although some 
cv welders are up to 60 v0lts.That 100+ volts falls to about 30 or less under 
a load.                                                 Now I do use welders 
on my dc motors in different ways when I am assembling and then again in 
breakin.I have a pulse cc powcon that works great breaking in a motor 
brushes.Two 
days ago I ran my S10 drivetrain while up on a lift with a Miller matic 250.    
 
                                          Dennis Berube   

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Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:59:34 -0800
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Highlighting EV's To Others
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-version: 1.0
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How about "Racing" then ;-P

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of John A. Evans - N0HJ
> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 4:19 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Highlighting EV's To Others
> 
> 
> Race shouldn't be an issue here ;)
> 
> john
> 
> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> > I think you left out the biggest categories for us.
> >
> > conversions and conversion for hire, and race.
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 20:41:49 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: RE: A Welder as a Power Supply
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Arc welders put out about 24-36V.  My dad has a welder with a battery
charging tap as well.  So you're not going to get the pack voltage you need.

But there's a lot of other ways to get high voltage DC.  Some diodes for a
full wave bridge rectifier.  But then you still need a way to adjust the
voltage up and down.

I think Dennis Berube uses a gas powered welder for charging his dragster. 
Not sure how it's set up.


Darin
BadFishRacing

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Joseph Lado [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:10:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: A Welder as a Power Supply


I was just thinking. Has anyone tried to use a welder to change the AC
power of a generator to the DC power needed to run a DC EV? I have been
thinking of creating a range extending generator power supply for my EV,
but I haven't figured out how to get the AC to DC in high enough DC voltage
and amps to keep my car going. I can cruse at 50 plus miles an hour at
about 50 amps. My battery pack is a 108 volt pack. I have found welders
that have a 110 volt output with different amp outputs some vary from 20
amps to 300 amps. Could I rig up a combination that would give me the volts
and amps I need to keep going without, well welding everything in my car
together? 

joE ladO 



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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 21:57:30 EDT
Subject: Re: A Welder as a Power Supply
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
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In a message dated 7/4/2007 6:09:20 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
> : RE: A Welder as a Power Supply 
> Date:7/4/2007 6:09:20 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> To:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Received from Internet: 
> 
> 
> 
> Arc welders put out about 24-36V.  My dad has a welder with a battery
> charging tap as well.  So you're not going to get the pack voltage you need.
> 
> But there's a lot of other ways to get high voltage DC.  Some diodes for a
> full wave bridge rectifier.  But then you still need a way to adjust the
> voltage up and down.
> 
> I think Dennis Berube uses a gas powered welder for charging his dragster. 
> Not sure how it's set up.
> 
> 
> Darin
> BadFishRacing
It is a bio diesel welder with as much as 17.5kw.I adjust the revolving field 
volts to get the needed 3 phase ac to rectify and choke.  Dennis Berube   

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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:03:29 -0500
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Free energy
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
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Well duh.

They're using a perfectly professional sell on this one.  That's sort of 
"new", most of their predecessors appear like tinfoil hat nut jobs, cite 
Nikola Tesla's precedent, pyramid building, etc.  There are a limited 
number of people who will fall for that.

It's well rehearsed.  They do have a sincere sound to them without 
sounding rehearsed.  The only problem here is their "discovery" is 
impossible and the reasons it hasn't been proven are nonsensical.

It's not an unreasonable requirement that they want to select credible 
investigators that people will believe to prove the device to, in order 
to avoid wasting both their time convincing someone whose opinion is 
worthless in the end.  But of course this is all moot, their claims are 
still impossible.

Danny

Dave wrote:

>Look at the videos and listen to
>their pitch.This is a scam!
>
>  
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Hybrid battery packs
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 21:35:57 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The blending of Thunder Sky lithium ion batteries with AGM batteries worked 
well to provide better range at a reasonable weight and cost.

  The mini-pickup now has a test pack of 8V golf cart size AGM batteries 
(11, for an 88V pack) that I imported from China last spring (2006), so it 
no longer has a hybrid battery pack.  I would like to add a 100 Amp-hr 
Thunder Sky pack in place of the generator, and go back to having a 
(different) hybrid pack again.  Another approach I would like to try is 
using the boost regulator I developed for converting hybrids to PHEVs, to 
take a lower voltage add-on pack, and boost it to feed in parallel with the 
main pack.  It would be like an electric, clean, range-extender "generator" 
that could be removed when not required.

The hatchback is out of service since last September with a motor problem. 
I finally took the time recently to remove the motor and get it to our local 
(Montreal) motor repair shop and distributor (Moteurs Electriques Laval) for 
a rebuild, which should be done in about a week.

Doug

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Hybrid battery packs


> See posts made by Doug Hartley in September 2004.  He implemented a 
> AGM/Li-ion hybrid pack that he said works well.  Doug, do you have any 
> updates on that?  You were talking about adding some additional 
> monitoring.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> I see that hybrid battery packs are being discussed again.
>>
>> I know they get discussed a lot, but I'm curious, has anyone ever
>> successfully implemented a hybrid battery pack?  If so, was it worth the
>> effort?
>>
>>
> 
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 01:56:18 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: OT:  Free energy
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Sorry, this is not an acceptable topic for this list. The list members 
decided by vote several years ago to avoid "free energy" and "over unity" 
discussions.

Please do not respond on the EVDL.  Thanks.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator

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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 08:47:53 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: Re: OT
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if it turns out to be real will it then be on topic?

David Roden wrote:
> Sorry, this is not an acceptable topic for this list. The list members 
> decided by vote several years ago to avoid "free energy" and "over unity" 
> discussions.
>
> Please do not respond on the EVDL.  Thanks.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode?  See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
>   
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:02:23 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: conversions
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<<<<
There is very little information on the website about the car or its
construction or design, what its advantages or disadvantages are.
I will assure you without that, few will pay attention, least of all
investors. From what I gather, it is essentially a two-wheel car-sized
segway. It is impressive that Mr. Sines has built it, and it works!
Let me give my feedback. Use a different body, one fit for the design,
or none at all
>>>>

*2* wheels? I though it was just a 3-wheeler with a lot of overhang! The site
hasn't changed in several years, so it needs more info added if it really *is*
a 2-wheeled car, and legalities need to be discussed.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 03:11:05 EDT
Subject: Re: OT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
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In a message dated 7/4/2007 11:49:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

if it turns out to be real will it then be on topic?

no


**************************************
 See what's free at 
http://www.aol.com.

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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu,  5 Jul 2007 00:13:14 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: OT: Free Energy
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> I'll follow this with skeptical interest. If true, practical
> applications that generate useful levels of surplus energy will be
> years away, but I'm all for cheating physics. Here's the news video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ-GxSCSAHU
>
> Lon Hull,
> Portland, OR

Unfortunately, there are a lot of over-unity believers around (I guess calling
it perpetual motion is no longer PC?) We've even had several appear on this
list - one claimed his hand-made motor had no back EMF. People keep hoping they
will be the next Hewlett and/or Packard while playing with magnets and soldering
guns in their garage, but neither of *those* men tried to break the basic laws
of physics. Before David steps in and tells us to quit it, best to forget about
these fantasies.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:13:31 +0300
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: STOP THE BS !!!   Re: OT
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NO. Scams and BS are never on topic..

You surely have an open mind, Dan. I gotta admire that.

Have you already plunged in to the cold fusion ? I think it needs your 
attention since it's still unsolved... Let us know how it proceeds... on 
some other list.


-Jukka


Dan Frederiksen kirjoitti:
> if it turns out to be real will it then be on topic?
> 
> David Roden wrote:
>> Sorry, this is not an acceptable topic for this list. The list members 
>> decided by vote several years ago to avoid "free energy" and "over 
>> unity" discussions.
>>
>> Please do not respond on the EVDL.  Thanks.
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EV List Administrator
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
>> or switch to digest mode?  See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  
>> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
>> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>>
>>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu,  5 Jul 2007 00:27:08 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: conversions
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<<<<
*2* wheels? I though it was just a 3-wheeler with a lot of overhang! The site
hasn't changed in several years, so it needs more info added if it really *is*
a 2-wheeled car, and legalities need to be discussed.
>>>>

The YouTube video cleared it up: you can see a forward caster wheel that doesn't
do anything but hold up the front end, but it couldn't be "non-load-bearing".
Wonder how much rolling resistance those big "tractor" wheels have, and what is
used for the caster's suspension...
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From: Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Hybrid battery packs
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:26:14 +0100
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu

I'm interested to know how this goes.  The chair of the BVS, John  
Lilly, has two elcat minivans running on a mixed pack of lead and  
lithium Ion.  His current drive has 72 V of lead with a slightly  
higher voltage of Thundersky 200AH cells in parallel with this. The  
thundersky cells have a high internal resistance as they are elderly  
and so aren't good for producing high currents. They do however top  
the lead acids up during low current drain periods, using a Zener  
diode to prevent charging the 'wrong way' and limit current flow in  
the other when voltages are low.

He is getting somewhere in the region of 120+ miles out of it when  
the batteries are toasty warm and road conditions are good. However,  
he has noted that the extra weight of the lithiums in addition to the  
lead pack has obviously raised the weight and rolling resistance  
quite dramatically.

I was going to do something similar for my City El but have recently  
started a complete lithium Ion only upgrade.

Nikki.



On Jul 5, 2007, at 2:35 AM, Doug Hartley wrote:

> The blending of Thunder Sky lithium ion batteries with AGM  
> batteries worked well to provide better range at a reasonable  
> weight and cost.
>
>  The mini-pickup now has a test pack of 8V golf cart size AGM  
> batteries (11, for an 88V pack) that I imported from China last  
> spring (2006), so it no longer has a hybrid battery pack.  I would  
> like to add a 100 Amp-hr Thunder Sky pack in place of the  
> generator, and go back to having a (different) hybrid pack again.   
> Another approach I would like to try is using the boost regulator I  
> developed for converting hybrids to PHEVs, to take a lower voltage  
> add-on pack, and boost it to feed in parallel with the main pack.   
> It would be like an electric, clean, range-extender "generator"  
> that could be removed when not required.
>
> The hatchback is out of service since last September with a motor  
> problem. I finally took the time recently to remove the motor and  
> get it to our local (Montreal) motor repair shop and distributor  
> (Moteurs Electriques Laval) for a rebuild, which should be done in  
> about a week.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 11:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Hybrid battery packs
>
>
>> See posts made by Doug Hartley in September 2004.  He implemented  
>> a AGM/Li-ion hybrid pack that he said works well.  Doug, do you  
>> have any updates on that?  You were talking about adding some  
>> additional monitoring.
>>
>> Bill Dennis
>>
>> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>> I see that hybrid battery packs are being discussed again.
>>>
>>> I know they get discussed a lot, but I'm curious, has anyone ever
>>> successfully implemented a hybrid battery pack?  If so, was it  
>>> worth the
>>> effort?
>>>
>>>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 02:51:21 -0500
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: OT
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Actually if this is a discussion of whether Steorn will be able to power 
an EV, I have misread the subject.

It was worthy of discussion since there is a significant possibility 
that the EV community will be confronted with an expectation that they 
would eventually be able to run on "free energy" or magic beans or the 
like due to Steorn's highly publicized campaign.  The magnitude and 
refinement of this scam is unprecedented.  As such, it has borderline 
relevance as an EV issue.

If anyone actually was trying to discuss whether it could be applied to 
an EV, yes it's off topic because this quackery and quack science is a 
huge, irrelevant field of fraud.  One could argue EVs are impractical 
and a bit quacky, but there is a central difference: EVs are real and 
the list acknowledges and accepts the actual real-world limitations.  
Quackery hides its limitations, readily says things known not to be 
true, or simply out of ignorance pursues nonsense claims and theories.

You could spend thousands of emails trying to debunk water-powered cars, 
over-unit magnet motors, Tesla's wireless car, zero point energy, or 
just a truck carrying solar panels that you could drive all day on just 
sunlight.  It's also annoying since you cannot further disprove a device 
that science and engineering already disproved, the believer has already 
discarded science and even revels in their universal claim that "we 
achieved this because we didn't listen to the people who said it was 
impossible".  There would be no time left whatsoever to discuss EV issues.

Danny

Dan Frederiksen wrote:

> if it turns out to be real will it then be on topic?
>
> David Roden wrote:
>
>> Sorry, this is not an acceptable topic for this list. The list 
>> members decided by vote several years ago to avoid "free energy" and 
>> "over unity" discussions.
>>
>> Please do not respond on the EVDL.  Thanks.
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EV List Administrator
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
>> or switch to digest mode?  See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  
>> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
>> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>>
>>   
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Free energy (for EVs!!)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:48:05 -0700
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From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Free energy


 But of course this is all moot, their claims are
> still impossible.

> Danny

We could go round and round on the laws of thermodynamics (and you can 
certainly list me among those who have no hope of this being more than a 
hoax), but the fact is that we don't know everything.

Geothermal, nuclear, solar, hydrocarbon, and gravity-derived power 
(hydro-electric power does *not* come from water; it comes from gravity...) 
do not cheat the first law, but they certainly exchange energy storage 
mediums in ways that would seem "miraculous" to 19th century physicists. The 
claim of "free energy from magnets" may be just as misleading as saying that 
fission energy is free "because we get out more energy out than we put into 
the reaction". The energy was always there, bound as matter; we just found a 
way to free it. Similarly, the possibility of translating the spin dipole 
magnetic moment of charged particles into useful kinetic energy with an 
apparent net energy gain may only be moving energy from a state we don't 
fully comprehend to one that is useful on a human scale, all without 
contradicting the first law (hey, maybe antiquarks steal quantum-mechanical 
energy from an alternate universe when they generate magnetism! LMAO...).

Put another way, quantum electrodynamics predicts behaviors that have not 
been observable to date (and new theories are still being put forth). To 
assume they will *never* be observed or that we know everything about energy 
transmission/availability on a subatomic level (especially as it relates to 
electromagnetism) is intellectual arrogance. I'd rather say I reserved 
judgment.

Lon Hull,

Portland, OR




> Dave wrote:
>
>>Look at the videos and listen to
>>their pitch.This is a scam!
>>
>>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Free energy (OT)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:53:58 -0700
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Oops, apologies... I responded to Danny Miller before catching the request 
to leave this topic alone. Back to batteries and motors and magic fiberglass 
lamborghinis ;^).

Lon 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:07:15 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: Re: OT
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Nikola Tesla thought otherwise vis a vis wardenclyffe tower and explicit 
statements that 'free energy' was possible.
this is the same man who demonstrated remote controlled ships when noone 
in the world knew radio communication was even possible
is it possible he was smarter than you?
further, in general you cannot prove that free energy is impossible even 
if it were

Danny Miller wrote:
> yes it's off topic because this quackery and quack science is a huge, 
> irrelevant field of fraud.
> a device that science and engineering already disproved, the believer 
> has already discarded science
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 11:51:48 +0300
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Hybrid battery packs
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UH ! tere is absolutely no point of keeping the SLAs in there. THe 
consuption dropped to about 200 Wh/mi with only Lions inside. That's 
with top speed.

Elcats are vans with about 70 % efficiency on the drivetrain. Upgrading 
it to AC will gain much and dropping the battery weight 600 lbs by 
changing chemistry will change the car driveability quite alot.

-Jukka


Nikki Bloomfield kirjoitti:
> I'm interested to know how this goes.  The chair of the BVS, John Lilly, 
> has two elcat minivans running on a mixed pack of lead and lithium Ion.  
> His current drive has 72 V of lead with a slightly higher voltage of 
> Thundersky 200AH cells in parallel with this. The thundersky cells have 
> a high internal resistance as they are elderly and so aren't good for 
> producing high currents. They do however top the lead acids up during 
> low current drain periods, using a Zener diode to prevent charging the 
> 'wrong way' and limit current flow in the other when voltages are low.
> 
> He is getting somewhere in the region of 120+ miles out of it when the 
> batteries are toasty warm and road conditions are good. However, he has 
> noted that the extra weight of the lithiums in addition to the lead pack 
> has obviously raised the weight and rolling resistance quite dramatically.
> 
> I was going to do something similar for my City El but have recently 
> started a complete lithium Ion only upgrade.
> 
> Nikki.
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 5, 2007, at 2:35 AM, Doug Hartley wrote:
> 
>> The blending of Thunder Sky lithium ion batteries with AGM batteries 
>> worked well to provide better range at a reasonable weight and cost.
>>
>>  The mini-pickup now has a test pack of 8V golf cart size AGM 
>> batteries (11, for an 88V pack) that I imported from China last spring 
>> (2006), so it no longer has a hybrid battery pack.  I would like to 
>> add a 100 Amp-hr Thunder Sky pack in place of the generator, and go 
>> back to having a (different) hybrid pack again.  Another approach I 
>> would like to try is using the boost regulator I developed for 
>> converting hybrids to PHEVs, to take a lower voltage add-on pack, and 
>> boost it to feed in parallel with the main pack.  It would be like an 
>> electric, clean, range-extender "generator" that could be removed when 
>> not required.
>>
>> The hatchback is out of service since last September with a motor 
>> problem. I finally took the time recently to remove the motor and get 
>> it to our local (Montreal) motor repair shop and distributor (Moteurs 
>> Electriques Laval) for a rebuild, which should be done in about a week.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 11:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: Hybrid battery packs
>>
>>
>>> See posts made by Doug Hartley in September 2004.  He implemented a 
>>> AGM/Li-ion hybrid pack that he said works well.  Doug, do you have 
>>> any updates on that?  You were talking about adding some additional 
>>> monitoring.
>>>
>>> Bill Dennis
>>>
>>> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>>> I see that hybrid battery packs are being discussed again.
>>>>
>>>> I know they get discussed a lot, but I'm curious, has anyone ever
>>>> successfully implemented a hybrid battery pack?  If so, was it worth 
>>>> the
>>>> effort?
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:32:00 +0300
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: OT
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On 7/5/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> if it turns out to be real will it then be on topic?

barring the fact that its not real, it would only be relevant if its
power to weight ratio (and power to volume ) was approaching
batteries. I.e. you could get kilowatts out of a device that weighs
kilograms.

Devices that produce a few hundred watts for the life of the vehicle
already do exist, they are called solar cells and radioisotope heater
units, widely used on spacecraft, just for example. That, without
violating any fundamental physics principle.

They arent "hugely popular" in EVs because of power output levels vary
between "minuscule" and "sucky"

If Steorn had something that could power a car, they'd be selling cars
like theres no tomorrow. They dont sell them, ergo, they dont have it.

-kert
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:28:30 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: OT nuclear batteries
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are nuclear energy sources like that commercially available?

Kaido Kert wrote:
> Devices that produce a few hundred watts for the life of the vehicle
> already do exist, they are called solar cells and radioisotope heater
> units, widely used on spacecraft, just for example. That, without
> violating any fundamental physics principle.
>
> They arent "hugely popular" in EVs because of power output levels vary
> between "minuscule" and "sucky"
>
> If Steorn had something that could power a car, they'd be selling cars
> like theres no tomorrow. They dont sell them, ergo, they dont have it.
>
> -kert
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "owen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev info" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 22:44:20 +1200
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hi to all
I found a 110kw ac 3 phase motor and I would like to know much dc is =
needed to run it and if there is an efficient way to convert it to ac=20
thank you all love reading your email's and I am learning a lot=20
Owen
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 07:06:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: conversions
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Hi,

No not so, when I said bearing I meant the actual full weight of the car. There 
is no serious weight in the front of the car you just think there is.

Tom Sines

-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Jul 5, 2007 3:27 AM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: RE: conversions
>
><<<<
>*2* wheels? I though it was just a 3-wheeler with a lot of overhang! The site
>hasn't changed in several years, so it needs more info added if it really *is*
>a 2-wheeled car, and legalities need to be discussed.
>>>>>
>
>The YouTube video cleared it up: you can see a forward caster wheel that 
>doesn't
>do anything but hold up the front end, but it couldn't be "non-load-bearing".
>Wonder how much rolling resistance those big "tractor" wheels have, and what is
>used for the caster's suspension...
>


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Free Energy
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:22:51 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

You guys are such a bunch of Doubting Thomas's.

Energy IS free. It's the conversion that'll cost ya. ;-) After all, I don't 
pay a "sunshine" or "wind" bill. The PV array to convert solar energy is 
costly though.

I'm fighting hard to sell my townhome so I can buy this single family, 2 car 
garage w/workshop up the road. It has oodles of roof space for solar panels, 
and good exposure. I've held off on converting my other '74 Beetle because 
I'd rather work on it there, than at the military base hobby shop down the 
highway.

The goal though is to do what some of my countrymen in California are doing 
and have a PV array that will generate enough energy to power 2 EV's for 
daily commutes and hopefully the rest of the house as well.

I'll start off with a grid-tie system but evenually I want an interrupt 
breaker that will divert PV output from the static inverter to a "battery 
bunker" I'm going to bury in the backyard. That way, if the grid goes down, 
I'll have batteries to run things for a little while.

Rich A.

_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com

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