EV Digest 7004
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: At last! My conversion to LiIon is complete!
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Electricity Book
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Electricity Book
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Dead Batteries
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) One way to promote EV's
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Battery Balancer/Regulator???
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Nimble Motorsports NiMHybrid Update
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Nimble Motorsports NiMHybrid Update
by "David S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: At last! My conversion to LiIon is complete!
by Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Adding electric assist to a surrey bike
by Darren David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: One way to promote EV's
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Adding electric assist to a surrey bike
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Adding electric assist to a surrey bike
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: One way to promote EV's
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: [ EV ] Adding electric assist to a surrey bike
by Darren David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Nimble Motorsports NiMHybrid Update
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Electricity Book
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla
Roadster Battery Pack)
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: [ EV ] Adding electric assist to a surrey bike
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Ideal EV configuration for my situation?
by "Matthew Chan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Nimble Motorsports NiMHybrid Update
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla Roadster
Battery Pack)
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Which exact battery model did you use?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nikki Bloomfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 4:41 PM
Subject: At last! My conversion to LiIon is complete!
Hi folks!
I finally got that wonderful smile today which comes from knowing
you've done some good quality work on your EV.
I started to convert my 98 City El to lithium Ion batteries last
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you! I just bought one for my class.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Electricity Book
Here is a $7 dvd containing public domain films on electricity.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Electrical-Elctricity-Films-DVD_W0QQitemZ180137678363QQihZ008QQcategoryZ617QQcmdZViewItem
On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 9:31 am, (-Phil-) wrote:
The best book I know of is "Getting Started in Electronics" by Forrest
Mims, simple, fun, and you retain it. I've taught many people
electronics using this awesome book!
http://www.forrestmims.com/
-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: Electricity Book
I am wondering if anyone here knows of any good books about
electricity that cover from the real basics to electronic components?
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and
the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually I believe you want http://www.gutenberg.org
www.projectgutenberg.org is one of those search page traps designed to
catch people that misspell URLs
> Search the archives at www.projectgutenberg.org
> Everything is free and over 100,000 books for download.
>
> Also archive.org has free video. Search there too.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 9:31 am, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> My all time favorite is the ARRL Handbook, you can buy it on Amazon.com
>> or
>> check it out from your local library (I've yet to find a library that
>> doesn't have it).
>>
>> It starts out simple and works it's way up. It's geared for radio
>> communications, but the basics are the same for all electronics. You
>> can
>> skip the section on Tubes and, if you're not interested in
>> transmitters/receivers, pretty much everything after it covers basic
>> amplifiers amplifiers.
>>
>> They publish an updated version every year, so if you buy one it's
>> pretty
>> much guaranteed to be up to date.
>>
>>> I am wondering if anyone here knows of any good
>>> books about
>>> electricity that cover from the real basics to
>>> electronic components?
>>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
>> whatever I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
> and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom,
Do you observe the charger near the end of the cycle? The red light should
eventually blink every 10 seconds or so, then it'll shift to yellow for the
"constant amperage/pulsing voltage" phase (I think I got that right, I don't
have my manual in front of me)
When the LED is yellow, my pack voltage is kind of high but I've been
repeatedly assured by the vendor that this is OK because the voltage is
briefly pulsing that high, and that it's intentional. See if your charger is
performing all of the phases.
I've gotten emails about how Zivans are "battery cookers" and I really used
to worry about the finishing phase but I've been charging and driving Since
mid March and I haven't had to add water yet. If it was cooking them, the
electrolyte would have been boiled away by now. 2,000 miles later and the
batteries are still great. I don't think I'll get more than 10,000 miles out
of my batteries. Depending on how hard you draw on yours, they may be near
end of life. You might want to call the Zivan vendor though and ask them
what's up.
Rich A.
From: "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Dead Batteries
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 13:14:56 -0400
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----
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I've hooked up with a local vintage VW group. They have some gorgeous
cars and busses. I was invited to hang out with them down at Annapolis
Harbor tonight.
Since the harbor is easily within range, I ran down there to meet everyone.
We were all parked in a line, right on the water. There was a 110 outlet at
the DNR patrol boat slip so I plugged right in. I was totally stunned by
everyone's interest. Not only were the VW people asking a million questions,
all the passers-by were into it too. (including some very attractive women.
Apparently they like nerds. Who knew?)
So I had a great time, met lots of people and spread the word. Convert a
popular car, join the local club and show off your drivetrain that way.
By the way, some firmer numbers for my power consumption are: 33 mph, 135
volts * 65 amps= 8775(watts)? I have no way of knowing if that is good or
not.
Rich A.
_________________________________________________________________
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First of all, a battery balancer and equalizer as they are sometimes
called are the same thing, right?
Okay, and for AGM batteries I know that you need something to make
sure the batteries never become overcharged; so which do you need a
balancer or a regulator for an AGM back?
What are some good manufacturers of either balancers or regulators?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Been making some progress.
I finally got to take the car for a test run with the CVT belt drive
direct to half-shaft,
http://nimblemotorsports.com/NiMHybridCVT.jpg
The CVT has approximately a 3.90:1 ratio that transitions to .90.
Unfortunately, it just didn't have enough to get the car moving, the
slippage on the belt would get it smoking and the pulley rather hot.
If I got the car going about 25mph with the ICE, the belt drive would
keep it moving, but still with too much slippage.
So clearly there needs to be at least some additional gearing. What I
liked about the CVT was its disconnect from the wheel when the motor
wasn't under power.
But now I'm thinking I may need a real transmission, that I can put into
neutral for ICE cruising.
Or at least another 4:1 gearing between the CVT and the axle.
I have a Geo Metro transaxle, it seems pretty small and light, but I'm
trying to avoid uncommon junkyard-used parts.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So is that just one wheel being driven or 2.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 11:33 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Nimble Motorsports NiMHybrid Update
Been making some progress.
I finally got to take the car for a test run with the CVT belt drive
direct to half-shaft,
http://nimblemotorsports.com/NiMHybridCVT.jpg
The CVT has approximately a 3.90:1 ratio that transitions to .90.
Unfortunately, it just didn't have enough to get the car moving, the
slippage on the belt would get it smoking and the pulley rather hot.
If I got the car going about 25mph with the ICE, the belt drive would
keep it moving, but still with too much slippage.
So clearly there needs to be at least some additional gearing. What I
liked about the CVT was its disconnect from the wheel when the motor
wasn't under power.
But now I'm thinking I may need a real transmission, that I can put into
neutral for ICE cruising.
Or at least another 4:1 gearing between the CVT and the axle.
I have a Geo Metro transaxle, it seems pretty small and light, but I'm
trying to avoid uncommon junkyard-used parts.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dmitri,
TS - 8518A - that's from memory. They're the 2003/2004 model. I'll
check the exact number later :)
Nikki.
On Jul 9, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Dmitri wrote:
Which exact battery model did you use?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nikki Bloomfield"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 4:41 PM
Subject: At last! My conversion to LiIon is complete!
Hi folks!
I finally got that wonderful smile today which comes from knowing
you've done some good quality work on your EV.
I started to convert my 98 City El to lithium Ion batteries last
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all-
I recently purchased a used surrey bike from the Golden Gate Park bike
rental shop. It looks almost *exactly* like this model:
http://www.surreycompany.com/images/OnlineSurrey_000.JPG
I'm looking for a way to add electric assist. I can't go down the
electric hub route because the front wheels are not attached to forks,
they are on spindles (see photo). As for the back wheels - the entire
setup is a single speed system with each crankset driving its own
independent wheel. The only system that I think seems feasible is the
Cyclone inline drive system, but I'm hoping to put one together for
cheaper -- and I'd like to install triple-chainrings up front so that I
can add some gearing while pedaling (the Cyclone system requires the use
of their proprietary "freewheeling" chainwheel). The bottom line is that
I'd like to add power assist /in addition to/ pedal power -- i.e. i want
to maintain pedal power as the primary drive system, and use electric
assist only when I get tired ;)
Has anyone attempted a similar conversion, or do you have any thoughts
as to how to attack the problem? Perhaps a friction drive system against
one of the back wheels?
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Best,
Darren David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
8,775 W / 33 MPH = 266 Watthour per mile.
That is a decent number for a conversion vehicle, it
may be on the high side if you have a fairly light vehicle
(like a bug or comparable) but for a heavire vehicle
this is actually rather good - I do not recall which
type of VolksWagen you converted.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Acuti
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 8:00 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: One way to promote EV's
So I've hooked up with a local vintage VW group. They have some gorgeous
cars and busses. I was invited to hang out with them down at Annapolis
Harbor tonight.
Since the harbor is easily within range, I ran down there to meet everyone.
We were all parked in a line, right on the water. There was a 110 outlet at
the DNR patrol boat slip so I plugged right in. I was totally stunned by
everyone's interest. Not only were the VW people asking a million questions,
all the passers-by were into it too. (including some very attractive women.
Apparently they like nerds. Who knew?)
So I had a great time, met lots of people and spread the word. Convert a
popular car, join the local club and show off your drivetrain that way.
By the way, some firmer numbers for my power consumption are: 33 mph, 135
volts * 65 amps= 8775(watts)? I have no way of knowing if that is good or
not.
Rich A.
_________________________________________________________________
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That looks like a blast to ride!
Anyway, my electric bike has a spoke-mounted sprocket
and a motor on a bracket that attaches to the fork/axle
position on any regular bike.
See the photos on the EV album and search for the
Currie add-on electric assist setup which comes with
the sprocket, motor, battery holder and handlebar throttle.
http://evalbum.com/720
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren David
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 11:07 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Adding electric assist to a surrey bike
Hi all-
I recently purchased a used surrey bike from the Golden Gate Park bike
rental shop. It looks almost *exactly* like this model:
http://www.surreycompany.com/images/OnlineSurrey_000.JPG
I'm looking for a way to add electric assist. I can't go down the electric
hub route because the front wheels are not attached to forks, they are on
spindles (see photo). As for the back wheels - the entire setup is a single
speed system with each crankset driving its own independent wheel. The only
system that I think seems feasible is the Cyclone inline drive system, but
I'm hoping to put one together for cheaper -- and I'd like to install
triple-chainrings up front so that I can add some gearing while pedaling
(the Cyclone system requires the use of their proprietary "freewheeling"
chainwheel). The bottom line is that I'd like to add power assist /in
addition to/ pedal power -- i.e. i want to maintain pedal power as the
primary drive system, and use electric assist only when I get tired ;)
Has anyone attempted a similar conversion, or do you have any thoughts as to
how to attack the problem? Perhaps a friction drive system against one of
the back wheels?
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Best,
Darren David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just use a rear electric hub and mount it on the passenger side wheel.
They also make spindle mount hub motors, typically used for tadpole
trikes, but should work on your front wheels if you want to go that route.
Of course, it won't be legal on the roads in most places. Then again,
most cops won't know that, so if you are willing to take a chance and
break the law, you might get away with it.
> Hi all-
>
> I recently purchased a used surrey bike from the Golden Gate Park bike
> rental shop. It looks almost *exactly* like this model:
>
> http://www.surreycompany.com/images/OnlineSurrey_000.JPG
>
> I'm looking for a way to add electric assist. I can't go down the
> electric hub route because the front wheels are not attached to forks,
> they are on spindles (see photo). As for the back wheels - the entire
> setup is a single speed system with each crankset driving its own
> independent wheel. The only system that I think seems feasible is the
> Cyclone inline drive system, but I'm hoping to put one together for
> cheaper -- and I'd like to install triple-chainrings up front so that I
> can add some gearing while pedaling (the Cyclone system requires the use
> of their proprietary "freewheeling" chainwheel). The bottom line is that
> I'd like to add power assist /in addition to/ pedal power -- i.e. i want
> to maintain pedal power as the primary drive system, and use electric
> assist only when I get tired ;)
>
> Has anyone attempted a similar conversion, or do you have any thoughts
> as to how to attack the problem? Perhaps a friction drive system against
> one of the back wheels?
>
> Thanks in advance for any and all help!
>
> Best,
> Darren David
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Except that he is only going 33 mph, and the normal wh/mile figures
assumes spending some time at 50-60 mph.
Nearly 9kwh to go 33mph seems a little high to me. Even my pickup truck
doesn't use that much power at 30-35mph.
> 8,775 W / 33 MPH = 266 Watthour per mile.
>
> That is a decent number for a conversion vehicle, it
> may be on the high side if you have a fairly light vehicle
> (like a bug or comparable) but for a heavire vehicle
> this is actually rather good - I do not recall which
> type of VolksWagen you converted.
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Richard Acuti
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 8:00 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: One way to promote EV's
>
> So I've hooked up with a local vintage VW group. They have some gorgeous
> cars and busses. I was invited to hang out with them down at Annapolis
> Harbor tonight.
>
> Since the harbor is easily within range, I ran down there to meet
> everyone.
> We were all parked in a line, right on the water. There was a 110 outlet
> at
> the DNR patrol boat slip so I plugged right in. I was totally stunned by
> everyone's interest. Not only were the VW people asking a million
> questions,
> all the passers-by were into it too. (including some very attractive
> women.
> Apparently they like nerds. Who knew?)
>
> So I had a great time, met lots of people and spread the word. Convert a
> popular car, join the local club and show off your drivetrain that way.
>
> By the way, some firmer numbers for my power consumption are: 33 mph, 135
> volts * 65 amps= 8775(watts)? I have no way of knowing if that is good or
> not.
>
> Rich A.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, very interesting. Peter, do you know brands or suppliers for either
rear electric or spindle mount hubs? This could be the answer to all of
my problems!
Thanks,
Darren
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Just use a rear electric hub and mount it on the passenger side wheel.
They also make spindle mount hub motors, typically used for tadpole
trikes, but should work on your front wheels if you want to go that route.
Of course, it won't be legal on the roads in most places. Then again,
most cops won't know that, so if you are willing to take a chance and
break the law, you might get away with it.
Hi all-
I recently purchased a used surrey bike from the Golden Gate Park bike
rental shop. It looks almost *exactly* like this model:
http://www.surreycompany.com/images/OnlineSurrey_000.JPG
I'm looking for a way to add electric assist. I can't go down the
electric hub route because the front wheels are not attached to forks,
they are on spindles (see photo). As for the back wheels - the entire
setup is a single speed system with each crankset driving its own
independent wheel. The only system that I think seems feasible is the
Cyclone inline drive system, but I'm hoping to put one together for
cheaper -- and I'd like to install triple-chainrings up front so that I
can add some gearing while pedaling (the Cyclone system requires the use
of their proprietary "freewheeling" chainwheel). The bottom line is that
I'd like to add power assist /in addition to/ pedal power -- i.e. i want
to maintain pedal power as the primary drive system, and use electric
assist only when I get tired ;)
Has anyone attempted a similar conversion, or do you have any thoughts
as to how to attack the problem? Perhaps a friction drive system against
one of the back wheels?
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Best,
Darren David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just one wheel is driven. Jack
David S wrote:
So is that just one wheel being driven or 2.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 11:33 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Nimble Motorsports NiMHybrid Update
Been making some progress.
I finally got to take the car for a test run with the CVT belt drive
direct to half-shaft,
http://nimblemotorsports.com/NiMHybridCVT.jpg
The CVT has approximately a 3.90:1 ratio that transitions to .90.
Unfortunately, it just didn't have enough to get the car moving, the
slippage on the belt would get it smoking and the pulley rather hot.
If I got the car going about 25mph with the ICE, the belt drive would
keep it moving, but still with too much slippage.
So clearly there needs to be at least some additional gearing. What I
liked about the CVT was its disconnect from the wheel when the motor
wasn't under power.
But now I'm thinking I may need a real transmission, that I can put into
neutral for ICE cruising.
Or at least another 4:1 gearing between the CVT and the axle.
I have a Geo Metro transaxle, it seems pretty small and light, but I'm
trying to avoid uncommon junkyard-used parts.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The http://www.archive.org/ has lots of clips
available for free download both educational and
historical. In prticular, old fifties films teaching
electricity =
http://www.archive.org/details/principles_of_electricity
I also had some free download ppdf of basic principles
tht I got from welding supply links, but I am not at
my comp to find it for you.
--- Dave Wilker wrote:
> Thank you! I just bought one for my class.
>
>
>
> David C. Wilker Jr.
> USAF (RET)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 2:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Electricity Book
>
>
> > Here is a $7 dvd containing public domain films on
> electricity.
> >
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Electrical-Elctricity-Films-DVD_W0QQitemZ180137678363QQihZ008QQcategoryZ617QQcmdZViewItem
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 9:31 am, (-Phil-) wrote:
> >> The best book I know of is "Getting Started in
> Electronics" by Forrest
> >> Mims, simple, fun, and you retain it. I've
> taught many people
> >> electronics using this awesome book!
> >>
> >> http://www.forrestmims.com/
> >>
> >> -Phil
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph T. "
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 2:53 PM
> >> Subject: Electricity Book
> >>
> >>
> >>> I am wondering if anyone here knows of any good
> books about
> >>> electricity that cover from the real basics to
> electronic components?
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> > www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about
> hurricanes, globalwarming and
> > the melting poles.
> >
> > www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake
> images.
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill.. Do you have any info on A123s how they die after overchareged
repeatedly ? How many cycles are needed with overcharging to reduce the
cell capacity and/or increase the internal resistance to unusable levels?
I'm curious.
I feel a bit odd to read these comments since I have thought people
would like to get long lifetime out of these cells. Drag racing might be
a different thing. But has the safety been always the only thing you've
been worried about ?
What I see all the time is people comparing the prices. How much more
expencive than SLAs. How much longer life time is needed to compensate
the expence... etc.
For what I have witnessed is that the LiFePO4 cells will get crappier on
every cycle if overcharged up to say 4,7V/ cell. After few dozen of
these cycles you have already some cells which are not usable anymore.
Is this not the same case with A123s ?
If not.. Then those cells are extremely neat things.
-Jukka
Bill Dube kirjoitti:
If you use decent quality cells, you can parallel them with no worries.
Crappy cells are going to be more trouble than the money you might save.
You will spend a lot of time and money on the BMS for crappy
"flame-thrower" type cells because for safety reasons you must protect
them over heating, over voltage, and under voltage.
If you pay more for the cells, and use high-quality FePo cells,
then many of your BMS complications go away. The BMS becomes much, much
less critical to because the cells don't burst into flames if they are
mistreated in some minor way.
You would be smartest to build a small pack (like for a scooter,
or small motorcycle) and try out your ideas on a small, inexpensive,
scale. Why trash a huge expensive pack to just to learn a lesson (or two)?
Bill Dube'
At 09:45 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:
I'm doing something similar, and one suggestion thrown around on this
list was to fuse each sell, so that if one failed short, it would just
be taken out of the "set" of 23 in parallel. Fuse would be via a
properly sized nickel welded tab. But someone pointed out that failure
could be via reduced capacity, or as a resister instead of a short.
Basically reducing one module of 23 cells. You'd have to monitor this
and manually remove the offending cell before the other 22 parallel
cells are destroyed. Or monitor each cell and remove the offending
cell from the circuit. Another idea thrown around was to monitor cells
in series, maybe 4 in series, you'd get out of balance conditions in
those 4 cells, but that would reduce the number of cells you'd need to
monitor. Well, not sure what is the best method, each one seems like a
compromise except monitoring each cell.
- Tony
----- Original Message ----
From: Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2007 8:54:38 AM
Subject: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla
Roadster Battery Pack)
Speaking of battery packs..
It seems ThunderSky's prices have gone up about 25% in the last 2
months, which means they've lost most of their cost advantage over
PHET (and others), and with all this talk of dodgy business
practices, it's given me reason for pause.
So once again I'm entertaining the idea of building a pack from
18650s (yes, what a lot of work..!)
I believe the Tesla pack has modules of 99 cells in series, with 23
of these modules connected in parallel. So no single cells are
explicitly paralleled, and if capacities don't match exactly well
it's averaged out over the 99. Great way to do it.
But this requires BMS monitoring of each cell individually, which is
just too much work for me!
So can anyone think of any showstopper problems with just hooking up
modules of 23 cells in parallel, and then wiring 99 of the modules
together in series. Then I'd only have 99 voltage levels to monitor.
(My actual numbers would be different but I'm using Tesla's numbers
for comparison.)
Seems to me the biggest problem would be the lowest common
denominator effect, i.e the groups of 23 would only be as good as the
weakest cell. Oh and if one cell shorted out, that could be rather
catastrophic I guess.
Thoughts?
-Ian
On 05/07/2007, at 11:19 PM, Joseph T. wrote:
> The Tesla Roadster battery pack has 6,831 cells. The Tesla Roadster,
> I've heard, is supposed to be 375 volts. Hmm...Lithium Ion batteries
> are rated at 3.6 nominal voltage. So....3.6 volts times 6,831 cells
> obviously doesn't equal 375 volts!!! What's going on here?
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Darren,
A source of supply for a electric bike or add on components are:
CURRIE TECHOLOGIES
20600 Nordhoff St., Chatsworth, CA 91311
1 800 377 4532 www.currietech.com
I bought the whole assembly from them which included a cast aluminum battery
case with two 24 volt batteries, a rear axle motor drives, wheels, tires,
suspension, handle bars with speed control, shifter, all mounted on a very
heavy duty aluminum frame.
It came all pre-assemble for $295.00.
Roland
> >> Hi all-
> >>
> >> I recently purchased a used surrey bike from the Golden Gate Park bike
> >> rental shop. It looks almost *exactly* like this model:
> >>
> >> http://www.surreycompany.com/images/OnlineSurrey_000.JPG
> >>
> >> I'm looking for a way to add electric assist. I can't go down the
> >> electric hub route because the front wheels are not attached to forks,
> >> they are on spindles (see photo). As for the back wheels - the entire
> >> setup is a single speed system with each crankset driving its own
> >> independent wheel. The only system that I think seems feasible is the
> >> Cyclone inline drive system, but I'm hoping to put one together for
> >> cheaper -- and I'd like to install triple-chainrings up front so that I
> >> can add some gearing while pedaling (the Cyclone system requires the
> >> use
> >> of their proprietary "freewheeling" chainwheel). The bottom line is
> >> that
> >> I'd like to add power assist /in addition to/ pedal power -- i.e. i
> >> want
> >> to maintain pedal power as the primary drive system, and use electric
> >> assist only when I get tired ;)
> >>
> >> Has anyone attempted a similar conversion, or do you have any thoughts
> >> as to how to attack the problem? Perhaps a friction drive system
> >> against
> >> one of the back wheels?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance for any and all help!
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Darren David
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
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Jack,
>From the little I understand of CVT (let me emphasize
LITTLE), either you dont have it tuned properly to
engage at 0 rpm or it is the wrong size for your
aplication.
On a side note, if you are intereseted in getting rid
of it, I would be willing to purchase it off you. I
think it would be good for a motorcycle conversion.
Lyle
--- Jack Murray wrote:
> Been making some progress.
> I finally got to take the car for a test run with
> the CVT belt drive
> direct to half-shaft,
> http://nimblemotorsports.com/NiMHybridCVT.jpg
> The CVT has approximately a 3.90:1 ratio that
> transitions to .90.
> Unfortunately, it just didn't have enough to get the
> car moving, the
> slippage on the belt would get it smoking and the
> pulley rather hot.
> If I got the car going about 25mph with the ICE, the
> belt drive would
> keep it moving, but still with too much slippage.
> So clearly there needs to be at least some
> additional gearing. What I
> liked about the CVT was its disconnect from the
> wheel when the motor
> wasn't under power.
> But now I'm thinking I may need a real transmission,
> that I can put into
> neutral for ICE cruising.
> Or at least another 4:1 gearing between the CVT and
> the axle.
> I have a Geo Metro transaxle, it seems pretty small
> and light, but I'm
> trying to avoid uncommon junkyard-used parts.
>
> Jack
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bill,
Yeah, the A123 cells appear to be very very decent, just that their cost
(hopefully that's just for now) is way up there! I'm building a pack for my
ebike, so that's gonna be the "testbed".
- Tony
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2007 11:35:09 AM
Subject: Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla
Roadster Battery Pack)
If you use decent quality cells, you can parallel them with no
worries. Crappy cells are going to be more trouble than the money you
might save. You will spend a lot of time and money on the BMS for
crappy "flame-thrower" type cells because for safety reasons you must
protect them over heating, over voltage, and under voltage.
If you pay more for the cells, and use high-quality FePo
cells, then many of your BMS complications go away. The BMS becomes
much, much less critical to because the cells don't burst into flames
if they are mistreated in some minor way.
You would be smartest to build a small pack (like for a
scooter, or small motorcycle) and try out your ideas on a small,
inexpensive, scale. Why trash a huge expensive pack to just to learn
a lesson (or two)?
Bill Dube'
At 09:45 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:
>I'm doing something similar, and one suggestion thrown around on
>this list was to fuse each sell, so that if one failed short, it
>would just be taken out of the "set" of 23 in parallel. Fuse would
>be via a properly sized nickel welded tab. But someone pointed out
>that failure could be via reduced capacity, or as a resister instead
>of a short. Basically reducing one module of 23 cells. You'd have to
>monitor this and manually remove the offending cell before the other
>22 parallel cells are destroyed. Or monitor each cell and remove the
>offending cell from the circuit. Another idea thrown around was to
>monitor cells in series, maybe 4 in series, you'd get out of balance
>conditions in those 4 cells, but that would reduce the number of
>cells you'd need to monitor. Well, not sure what is the best method,
>each one seems like a compromise except monitoring each cell.
>
> - Tony
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2007 8:54:38 AM
>Subject: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re:
>Tesla Roadster Battery Pack)
>
>Speaking of battery packs..
>
>It seems ThunderSky's prices have gone up about 25% in the last 2
>months, which means they've lost most of their cost advantage over
>PHET (and others), and with all this talk of dodgy business
>practices, it's given me reason for pause.
>
>So once again I'm entertaining the idea of building a pack from
>18650s (yes, what a lot of work..!)
>
>I believe the Tesla pack has modules of 99 cells in series, with 23
>of these modules connected in parallel. So no single cells are
>explicitly paralleled, and if capacities don't match exactly well
>it's averaged out over the 99. Great way to do it.
>
>But this requires BMS monitoring of each cell individually, which is
>just too much work for me!
>
>So can anyone think of any showstopper problems with just hooking up
>modules of 23 cells in parallel, and then wiring 99 of the modules
>together in series. Then I'd only have 99 voltage levels to monitor.
>(My actual numbers would be different but I'm using Tesla's numbers
>for comparison.)
>
>Seems to me the biggest problem would be the lowest common
>denominator effect, i.e the groups of 23 would only be as good as the
>weakest cell. Oh and if one cell shorted out, that could be rather
>catastrophic I guess.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>-Ian
>
>On 05/07/2007, at 11:19 PM, Joseph T. wrote:
>
> > The Tesla Roadster battery pack has 6,831 cells. The Tesla Roadster,
> > I've heard, is supposed to be 375 volts. Hmm...Lithium Ion batteries
> > are rated at 3.6 nominal voltage. So....3.6 volts times 6,831 cells
> > obviously doesn't equal 375 volts!!! What's going on here?
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