EV Digest 7029

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS & RE: Make It
        by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Anderson disassembly (AKA Duh ...)
        by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?
        by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Poor Man's DC Regen possibility
        by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Ceramic heater connection.
        by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Just In from PIR, Wayland becomes a Criminal
        by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Prius Electronics
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: hey can anyone help me with batteries and construction
        by "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Poor Man's DC Regen possibility
        by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack (was: 12vdc/120vac inverter)
        by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: Wayland Invt'l, KillaCycle on the road
        by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Questions for those in the-know...
        by "John Dinsmore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Prius Electronics
        by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: PC, ATX power supply as a DC/DC converter?
        by "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?
        by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?
        by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: PC, ATX power supply as a DC/DC converter?
        by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Curtis Controller?
        by "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Ceramic heater connection.
        by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Ceramic heater connection.
        by "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) what tax advantages ?
        by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Curtis Controller?
        by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: driving cycle standards in USA
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: what tax advantages ?
        by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Ceramic heater connection.
        by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: The flow of current
        by "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message --- It will fail. Mine did. Otmar's did. Almost anyone tackling a high-power design of any kind expects to fry some parts during design and testing. When you are talking 30ish hand-matched transistors, it hurts a LOT when they blow. And they almost always all go at once, and even if there are a few left standing, they have been stressed, so you cannot gamble on them as they can take out the rest.

The gate resistors, the gate protection zeners, the gate drive circuitry, and sometimes a lot more (PCB) go "poof" in an instant. It's hard to keep the enthusiasm up when the bulk of what you just spent a week fabricating goes "poof"!

Add in Regen and other nice features, and it's usually another round of "poof"!

Even a well proven design like the Curtis can go poof in an instant if everything is not exactly right in your system.

Nothing is impossible, but the value equation just doesn't add up. This is why Lee and everyone else keeps saying "try it". For some of us, it's the only way to learn this hard lesson.

-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: VOLTS vs AMPS & RE: Make It


Lee, many keep saying that it's so impossible.
what is so time consuming about assembling it? where is the great difficulty that ensures it will cost more?

please try to be specific, not just the 'try it, you will fail' mantra
why will it fail

Dan

Lee Hart wrote:
I'm a good engineer, and a pretty good technician. I *have* built products of this sort. In my experience, it is impossible to build your own Curtis controller for less money than Curtis charges, unless you place no value on your time, your tools, and your training. If you think you can do it, be my guest! Give it a try! Even if you fail, you will have learned a lot. We'll talk more when you've finished.



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Yes, that works fine to extract them. You have to do it twice per contact, once to get the contact free of the spring, then a second time to get the contact clear of the plastic edge. (it'll be obvious).

-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: Anderson disassembly (AKA Duh ...)


Okay, so I just received two Anderson SB350 connectors. Being the super-genius that I am, I pushed the contacts all the way in to see how well the connectors mated. Now I'm wondering if there's a non-destructive way to remove the contacts again. Common sense tells me to push them all the way in, then put a skinny screwdriver between the contact and the spring (from the wire side), then draw out the contact. Or is there a better way?

Really don't want to break the nice plastic housing.



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- When using the AC input on the IOTA 240V what is the polarity for the DC in to the AC Input? Does the DC connect directly to the AC plug wires and to what colors? (WHT/BLK/GRN). Is there something that needs to be bypassed?


Thanks

Mark

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- No clutch needed, you can switch the field in the alternator off (low current) and it will not do anything.

Problem is automotive alternators are designed to make 14v, not your pack voltage. They also peak out at not much over a kilowatt. Put one in for each 12v in your pack, and figure out how to electrically isolate it, then you may have something that could make a difference.

-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:59 PM
Subject: Poor Man's DC Regen possibility


With my VW DC conversion nearing an end, while driving to town in my ICE
machine, I noticed the series of rolling hills I passed over; not too high,
but high enough to sap a bit of excess power on the up hills while
recovering nothing on the down hill.

I began to ponder: What if I belted up an ICE alternator, equipped with an
automobile air conditioner electric clutch, on the useless end of the main
DC drive motor and triggered the clutch with a brake light switch?

My question is: Would this recover enough energy to warrant setting it up?
Surely, someone has tried some variation of this idea.

Roger Daisley
Pullman, WA
http://ElectricVW.blogspot.com



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm connecting a couple of ceramic heater cores and want to make sure I'm doing 
it right. I'm also
just using round numbers in my example to keep it simple (for my benefit.) 
Since they are rated
for 120VAC, let's assume they'd work alright on 120 VDC. And If I wanted to run 
them off a 240VDC
pack, 2 cores in series would work. Am I good so far?

The ceramic cores have 5 wires; one common black wire, 2 red and 2 blue. The 
red and blue are for
the 2 heat ranges. My question centers around connecting them in series. Do I 
just combine the
reds and blues of one core and connect them to the common side of the other 
core? And then combine
the reds and blues of the other cores together as a common input. This would 
leave me with
connecting one side of my heater through a black wire and the other side to the 
combined reds and
blues. This eliminates any chance of using two heat ranges but allows me to 
connect to a higher
voltage pack. Yes?

Is there another way to hook these cores in series and still be able to take 
advantage of the 2
heat ranges, on a higher voltage pack?

Thanks for help on this simple problem. It seems pretty obvious, but I don't 
know what I'm
missing.

Dave Cover, wishing I were in Portland this weekend

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 15, 2007, at 8:25 AM, Roderick Wilde wrote:

Paul, can you tell us if the Killacycle made any runs Saturday night?

It did. During the day they ran at Woodburn and in the evening made several runs at PIR. The 2 runs I saw where both in the 8.2s range. That thing *really* shoots away from the lights!

I tried to capture a picture of the Zombie launch with my phone. I had the camera propped up on the guard rail and was watching the lights. As soon as the lights turned green I hit the shutter. I got a nice picture of the White Zombie's opponent, but the Zombie was already out of the scene! Another run with the 60 foot time in the 1.5s!

Paul "neon" Gooch

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw that site to. but I disageree with 1 thing you said, the 200-500
is not on the same side as the 200-12 dc-dc and the AC Inverter.

I scoured a bunch of docs and it looks to me like the battery voltage
drops thru to the back side and it contains the 200-12 and the AC
inverter, a great combination.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Best battery depends on your budget. Lead/acid are the most
affordable. The range you will get depends primarily on the weight of
the batteries installed. That is your Q 2 and 3. Performance depends
on the number of watts you can put into the motor. In batteries,
higher amp capability = better performance like speed and
accelleration. Higher amp hours = greater range.

On 7/15/07, (-Phil-) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'll stab at a few:

1 horsepower = 745.699 watts

Of course in a Generator, there are efficiency losses, so typically you will
see a 20kw engine powering a 15kw gen head.

Regenerative braking (aka "regen") is recovery of the vehicles rolling
energy instead of wasting it.  It usually involves a more complex control
system.  It basically turns the motor into a generator briefly when you are
wanting to slow down, and charges the battery instead of just discarding
this energy as heat in the brake linings.

You cannot charge anything from your vehicle that doesn't cost you at least
that much energy going in.  An attempt as such is labeled "over unity" or
"perpetual motion" because it violates the first law of thermodynamics.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

Note that discussion of anything along these lines is prohibited on this
discussion list.  So don't ask any more about it.  There is plenty of
information on the web about it and why it won't work.  If it did, we'd
never have to worry about energy ever again, and range would be a non-issue.

Building controllers is a very complex and difficult thing.  Any attempt at
building a PWM controller for EV use will likely cost you more in the end
then buying one.  Trust me, I have done it!

If you have a lot of years of experience in electrical engineering, it will
still cost your ass, (don't ask how I know), so any attempt by someone
without these years of experience will almost without exception be a
disaster.  Don't even try.  Best bet is to spend your effort in other areas
and buy a good controller or if you can't just go "old style" with a
contactor controller, or even a block of wood with nails in it.  =)

-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "gulabrao ingle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 9:11 AM
Subject: hey can anyone help me with batteries and construction


> Hi,
>
> I recently joined the list 2 days ago,
> Well i am planning a conversion of my own here in Mumbai, India
> I am looking for a car in my budget in and around Mumbai,
> I have shortlisted a few candidates for the conversion,
>
> I have a few questions and clarifications I would like to ask before I
> actually jump into the conversion, anyone can reply to me on my email
> personally or through the list( if the question sound unrelated to this EV
> topic discussion list)
>
> 1. what is the minimum amount of horse power is required to run a 15 kw
> generator ?
> 2. which batteries are better, 10 12volt lead acid or 20 6v lead acid for
> range ?
> 3. does motor size and power rating affect the range of an full electric
> vehicle ?
> 4. what voltage and current rating of motor should i look for a vehicle of
> gross weight of 900 kgs to go 100 km
> 5. should i try rebuilding certain parts of the vehicle in fibreglass ,
> what
> implications will it have ?
> 6. what specification of controller should i look for this project ? (hey
> anyone in India on this list have a working controller or can help me get
> a
> controller)
> 7. what is regenrative braking , how does it work and what mechanisms have
> to be there to put it in to my car.?
> 8. can alternators connected to the 4 wheels and motor of my car produce
> enough juice to charge a second set of lead acids while i am driving ?
> 9. where can I get kits for the controller ? is it possible to get them ,
> either import or get them somehow in Mumbai ?
> 10. what kind of batteries are best for getting the maximum range apart
> from
> li-ion and li polymer ? and what is their cost and price ? which is the
> best
> deal overall for say a range of 100 miles with speeds over    100 kmph ?
> 11. do I need to do some modifications on the electronics level to get the
> most range from my setup ?
>
> I hope you answer some of these questions and do not ignore this mail like
> my last post.
>
> Thanks
> Gulabrao
>
> I could really appreciate if I can find some local help and guidance
> through
> this list or a mentor whom I can rely upon.
>




--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Belt drive regen has been done. The now defunct Solar Car Corp offered it as an option years ago. See:

http://www.evalbum.com/tech/regen.jpg

I wish these were still available. Anyone know a rewinding shop that could rewind an alternator like this?

Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html

In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Outback inverters are the same as the Xantrex SW series -- 48
volts is the highest voltage (Same group of engineers designed most of
them).  Not the most practical to require your series/parallel
connections of the car battery pack every time you need backup power,
I think.

Exeltech does make inverters that take up to 120 volts DC input.  I
think it's their XP series.  The largest one they have is 1100 watts I
believe.  They do not have the automatic transfer switches and such
that the Xantrex and Outback have though.

A note on running things on DC.  Yes, alot off things don't care
whether it's AC or DC, as long as its somewhere around the right
voltage.  However, switches are one thing that have trouble with DC
due to it's propensity to arc.   Turning it on or off under power may
lead to pretty short switch lifetime when used on DC.

Z

On 7/15/07, Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Guys, it's remarkable you're checking into this right
now, as I was just doing the same thing this week.

Obviously, the higher the voltage, the lower the
current draw.  Thus l would _love_ an inverter that
went up to the voltage of my pack, 144V, and could
pull 6A to power my fridge, plus another few amps for
lights, fans, etc. in a rolling blackout or brownout
event.

Xantrex: ProSine model up to 24V, yields 1800W.  Would
be around $1800-2500 IIRC.

Dear Mr. Bath,

Thank you for contacting Solatron Technologies for
your power inverting needs.  I spoke to our Technical
Manager regarding your desire to power the home with
the electric car battery during utility power outages.
 He stated that although this is possible if you are
able to rewire the 144 volt electric car battery to a
48 volt system, if the power outages are frequent or
long lasting, he would recommend a separate battery
bank altogether.

A separate battery bank would allow for charging via
an inverter and the utility grid power.  Once the
utility power was down, the inverter system would pull
power back from the batteries directly to a sub panel
dedicated to the emergency loads only.

If you can confirm the size/type batteries being used
on the electric car and that they can be rewired to a
48 volt system, we can make a recommendation on a
complete inverter system.  Most likely, you would want
to utilize the Xantrex SW5548 inverter, which is
priced at $2,750.

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Sincerely,

Diana Howell

PV Powered: Uses the grid to get what the sine wave
"looks" like.  Thus, it is useless in this
application.

Outback: Still waiting to hear from.

Hope that helps,

--- "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> No, I'm not suggesting you use 12v to power it.
> This would be
> double-conversion in any event.
>
> You crack open the inverter and inject your pack
> voltage after the first
> DC-DC boost stage.
>
> It's easy to calculate the load at 12v.  Amps X
> volts = Watts.
>
> 3000 Watts divided by 12 volts is 250 amps.  This is
> not including
> efficiency losses.  It'll likely be around 270A for
> a cheap inverter.
>
> There are no EV DC-DC converters that will get
> anywhere close to this.
>
> The other option is to run your loads directly off
> the DC pack voltage.
> Many modern AC loads will also with DC directly:
> Computers, both Laptops and desktops
> TV sets (more modern ones)
> Electric heaters (without fan motors!)
> Compact Fluorescent lamps
> Incandescent lamps
> Inverter driven Microwave ovens
>
> Just about anything WITHOUT a iron-core in it
> somewhere is generally ok.
> This means all of these are a no-no on DC:
> heavy wall-wart powered stuff (light ones like
> laptops use are ok)
> AC motors
> refrigeration equipment
> Air compressors
> Small things like Clock-radios (usually contain a
> transformer)
>
> Things that might be OK with motors are those things
> with brushed motors,
> such as an angle grinder or many vacuum cleaners,
> etc.
>
> If you wish to experiment, buy a glass fuse
> assortment and make up a little
> cable with an in-line fuse holder and standard
> outlet on the end.  Look at
> the nameplate of the appliance, choose a fuse close
> to the amperage rating
> and install it in the fuseholder.  This is for
> safety.  (Disclaimer: Running
> devices designed for AC on DC can be unsafe for the
> device, yourself, and
> the surrounding environment!)  Plug the appliance
> in.  If it doesn't work,
> or work correctly, try reversing the polarity
> quickly.  If it still doesn't
> work, unplug it right away to avoid possible damage.
>  If it does appear to
> work, then test all the functions, if it appears to
> be normal you can add it
> to your list.  Note that some power supplies will
> not start correctly on one
> polarity, so try both.
>
> Make sure nothing gets hot when run for a bit.  I've
> run many compact
> fluorescent lights, computers, TV sets, etc, off of
> a 144v volt pack
> successfully.
>
> If you find you can run most of your load this way,
> then you may be able to
> get by with a small inverter off your 12v system for
> the few things which
> don't like DC.
>
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill & Nancy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:47 AM
> Subject: 12vdc/120vac inverter
>
>
> > Hi Phil,
> > I have been looking at this situation myelf. I was
> looking for a 3000 watt
> > inverter and found several using the above search
> words. I found some
> > staring at around $400 to $2000.
> > Most sites don't list the amperage pull on the
> 12volt battery. One site
> > listed the amperage draw on their unit as 192
> amps. The dc/dc for most
> > ev's only put out 30-45 amps, so the battery would
> be unable to hold it's
> > charge nore than an hour. Let me know if you
> figure a way around this
> > limitation.
> > Bill
> >
>
>


Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic?  My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
                          ____
                     __/__|__\ __
  =D-------/    -  -         \
                     'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? 
Are you saving any gas for your kids?

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all

Yep it was the whole waitress staff (cost me a 20
dollar tip)(worth EVery penny though 8^)

I just made it home, tired, horse, emotionally
drained, and damn proud to have been part of one kick
ass group of EVers!  There where a number of non-EV
folks that knowing we'd be out on Saturday came out
again just to watch White Zombie and Killacycle tear
down the track, how cool is that.

For those not there, these guys work their butts off
(well EVryone but "Princecess" 8^P) to attain these
types of times and speeds!  Kudos to these electric
warriors and their warrior chariots! 8^)

I just wanted to chime in on this thread real quick
before I try to post about this weekends insanity 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric


--- Matt Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> . . .and John has had it in for Jim ever since that
> moment! Didn't the
> entire wait staff of the restaurant come over to
> serenade John, or is that
> just my wild imagination mis-remembering details?



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service!  Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Yes, you are right, the 12V and AC inverter share the same board.... Either way, it's way too much R.E. for me to consider it. It's cheaper to start fresh. (not including the probably substantial cost of that board!

-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: Prius Electronics


I saw that site to. but I disageree with 1 thing you said, the 200-500
is not on the same side as the 200-12 dc-dc and the AC Inverter.

I scoured a bunch of docs and it looks to me like the battery voltage
drops thru to the back side and it contains the 200-12 and the AC
inverter, a great combination.



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using a laptop power supply that puts out 15v feeding a simple
solar controller to charge a 12v marine battery. It is live all the
time, so it keeps the 12v charged. The battery supplies the power for
the headlights etc. as the power supply only provides a few amps.


On 7/15/07, Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Wow, you think I could use a simple ATX-PC power
supply with my battery pack, and use the 12 volts out
for my accessories?  Never thought about doing that,
off to see if I can keep from blowing up some power
supplies..... Cause I really need a DC/DC converter
for my headlights.

> The other option is to run your loads directly off
> the DC pack voltage.
> Many modern AC loads will also with DC directly:
> Computers, both Laptops and desktops
> TV sets (more modern ones)
> Electric heaters (without fan motors!)
> Compact Fluorescent lamps
> Incandescent lamps
> Inverter driven Microwave ovens
>




M. Barkley

  www.texomaev.com

  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1135




--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When connecting to AC, Black is HOT, white is Neutral, and green is ground.  I 
connected Battery positive to the HOT (black) wire, and battery negative to the 
Neutral (white) wire.  I suspect it doesn't really matter, however, since it is 
rectified before being converted.  Green should not be connected on this side.
 




David Brandt


----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 4:36:30 PM
Subject: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?


When using the AC input on the IOTA 240V what is the polarity for the  
DC in to the AC Input? Does the DC connect directly to the AC plug  
wires and to what colors? (WHT/BLK/GRN). Is there something that  
needs to be bypassed?


Thanks

Mark


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When connecting to AC, Black is HOT, white is Neutral, and green is ground.  I 
connected Battery positive to the HOT (black) wire, and battery negative to the 
Neutral (white) wire.  I suspect it doesn't really matter, however, since it is 
rectified before being converted.  Green should not be connected on this side.
 




David Brandt


----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 4:36:30 PM
Subject: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?


When using the AC input on the IOTA 240V what is the polarity for the  
DC in to the AC Input? Does the DC connect directly to the AC plug  
wires and to what colors? (WHT/BLK/GRN). Is there something that  
needs to be bypassed?


Thanks

Mark


       
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready
 for the edge of your seat? 
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
http://tv.yahoo.com/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Most International spec switchmodes (100v min) will run off of a 120v pack. I wouldn't try to go any lower.

An ATX supply is designed to provide other voltages too, and some don't like not having those loads. This is providing you mod it for slightly higher volts which also may be a problem with slightly lower than normal DC input. If you had a 160v pack, this would be ideal input. (120vac P-P is roughly 160 VDC)

-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: PC, ATX power supply as a DC/DC converter?


I am using a laptop power supply that puts out 15v feeding a simple
solar controller to charge a 12v marine battery. It is live all the
time, so it keeps the 12v charged. The battery supplies the power for
the headlights etc. as the power supply only provides a few amps.


On 7/15/07, Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Wow, you think I could use a simple ATX-PC power
supply with my battery pack, and use the 12 volts out
for my accessories?  Never thought about doing that,
off to see if I can keep from blowing up some power
supplies..... Cause I really need a DC/DC converter
for my headlights.

> The other option is to run your loads directly off
> the DC pack voltage.
> Many modern AC loads will also with DC directly:
> Computers, both Laptops and desktops
> TV sets (more modern ones)
> Electric heaters (without fan motors!)
> Compact Fluorescent lamps
> Incandescent lamps
> Inverter driven Microwave ovens
>




M. Barkley

  www.texomaev.com

  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1135




--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059



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I have a Curtis 1221B-6A701 and don't find this model listed on the Curtis
web site. (Probably a discontinued model.) Is it suitable for a VW
conversion using a 96-volt flooded pack? (16 x 6v, US-125)

The data plate on the unit lists voltage as 48-80; Amps at 500.
/roger

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I just happen to have one of these ;-). It appears that this device is
really a 220v device that was modified to use 110. Clip off the black
lead. Connect 220+ to one blue and 220- to other blue. Power one core
or 2 cores for 2 heat levels.  Power the red leads with 220 for 1/2
power in a core. If you really get into switching you could have lots
of different levels- perhaps 6 different levels?
storm
On 7/15/07, Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm connecting a couple of ceramic heater cores and want to make sure I'm doing 
it right. I'm also
just using round numbers in my example to keep it simple (for my benefit.) 
Since they are rated
for 120VAC, let's assume they'd work alright on 120 VDC. And If I wanted to run 
them off a 240VDC
pack, 2 cores in series would work. Am I good so far?

The ceramic cores have 5 wires; one common black wire, 2 red and 2 blue. The 
red and blue are for
the 2 heat ranges. My question centers around connecting them in series. Do I 
just combine the
reds and blues of one core and connect them to the common side of the other 
core? And then combine
the reds and blues of the other cores together as a common input. This would 
leave me with
connecting one side of my heater through a black wire and the other side to the 
combined reds and
blues. This eliminates any chance of using two heat ranges but allows me to 
connect to a higher
voltage pack. Yes?

Is there another way to hook these cores in series and still be able to take 
advantage of the 2
heat ranges, on a higher voltage pack?

Thanks for help on this simple problem. It seems pretty obvious, but I don't 
know what I'm
missing.

Dave Cover, wishing I were in Portland this weekend




--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059

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* If your postings display this message your mail program *
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On Jul 15, 2007, at 3:00 PM, Roger Daisley wrote:

I have a Curtis 1221B-6A701 and don't find this model listed on the Curtis
web site. (Probably a discontinued model.) Is it suitable for a VW
conversion using a 96-volt flooded pack? (16 x 6v, US-125)

The data plate on the unit lists voltage as 48-80; Amps at 500.

No, this unit shouldn't be used with more than an 80 volt pack. Since 8v GC batteries don't seem to appreciate 500 amp discharge level I'd suggest a 78 volt pack (13 x 6v.)

Paul "neon" Gooch

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Jukka,

http://www.metricmind.com/cycles.htm

Victor

p.s. Cool collection of EVs in photo album!

Jukka Järvinen wrote:
Hi all..

I'm looking for the most recent driving cycle to estimate vehicle consumption comparable to USA vehicles. Can someone point me to the right place where to obtain such cycle data ?

I've got the European cycle already in and it looks good for this design.


-Jukka

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/641
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1007
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1009
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1011
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1206




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Hey great one!!! IRS tax advantages-- Heh, heh!  Yeah
right.  I've got some beachfront AZ property to sell
ya' too!
Seriously, all I recall is that they expired in 06,
after tapering down.
Perhaps with the new congress there is something out
there again...?

--- FRED JEANETTE MERTENS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> what are the u.s.   irs tax advantages ?  the code
> is such a mess I don't know where to start . if you
> have used the for a home built ev   could you direct
> me to the right area  of form to start with ?


Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic?  My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too! 
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
                          ____ 
                     __/__|__\ __        
  =D-------/    -  -         \  
                     'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? 
Are you saving any gas for your kids?


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play 
Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  

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On Jul 15, 2007, at 2:04 PM, Dave Cover wrote:

I'm connecting a couple of ceramic heater cores and want to make sure I'm doing it right. I'm also just using round numbers in my example to keep it simple (for my benefit.) Since they are rated for 120VAC, let's assume they'd work alright on 120 VDC. And If I wanted to run them off a 240VDC
pack, 2 cores in series would work. Am I good so far?

The ceramic cores have 5 wires; one common black wire, 2 red and 2 blue.

[snip]

You have 5 connections down one side of the heater element, correct? If so then the generally the connection is...

For about 120 volt operation connect 1, 3, and 5 to one side of the pack. Connect 2 and 4 to the other side. One side or the other needs to be switched so you can turn the heater off (of course you knew that :-)

For about 240 volt operation connect 1 and 5 to one side of the pack and connect 3 to the other side. 2 and 4 don't need to be connected.

Ceramic heaters tend to be self regulating. What that means is that as they get hot they draw less current (and make less heat.) Because of this you can generally use the car's heater fan speed control to regulate heat levels quite effectively. If you really want the heater itself to also support a high and low output level you could set it up (for a 240 volt pack) so that 1 is connected to one side of the pack and 5 to the other side of the pack. I suspect the heat output would be significantly reduced but if all you wanted was slight heat to make the defrost vents clear the windshield of fog it could be useful.

The general rule to remember is that between each tab you want about 120 volts for rated heat output. Ceramic heaters that didn't come out of a plug in heater may have unique elements designed for a different voltage. I've installed 2 ceramic heating systems so far and have built a 3rd one for my current conversion. All of mine where built using heater units taken from store bought plug in (120 VAC) ceramic heaters.

Paul "neon" Gooch

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Ok then .. Well what I am after is a trial run on the car before I put
another 600 or 700 bucks into a controller.. I want to make sure it is going
to run ok.. So I want to know how much voltage to put on this motor rated
for 30 volts and 300 amps  .. And take it for a little drive to make sure it
is all going to work .. Without frying the motor or anything.. With just a
on off switch for the trial run..

Thanks Mitchell

-------Original Message------- 
 
From: Roland Wiench 
Date: 7/15/2007 2:21:52 PM 
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu 
Subject: Re: The flow of current 
 
Hello Phelps, 
 
Motors are inductive loads, where the ampere will rise with increase voltage

Unlike resistance loads as a heater, where if you have a 240 v heater 
Element at 8 amps, it will become 4 amps at 120 v. 
 
A motor that it windings are rated for 240 v may use 10 amps where A motor 
Has its windings rated for 120 V may use 20 amps for the same hp. But using 
Different voltages on the same windings rated for some other voltage the 
Ampere may increase as follows: 
 
Here is the results of a 180 VDC motor test I did using different voltages 
At no load: 
 
Battery Pack Actual Volts Amperes Rpm 
 
12 12.6 5 634 
18 18.9 6 1013 
24 25.4 6.2 1390 
30 31.8 6.4 1773 
36 37.8 6.6 2143 
42 44.5 6.8 2521 
48 51.2 7.0 2985 
54 57.5 7.5 3270 
60 63.7 8 3715 
 
There is a maximum voltage and ampere rating you can go over on a motor. 
This is call the Service Factor (SF). If 115V motor has a rated SF of 115% 
And the motor has a ampere rating of 200 ampere for continuous running, then

200A x 1.15 = 230 amps. The 115V motor can run on 115V x 1.15 = 132.25 V. 
 
On the label for the motor, there should be a Service Factor which may say 
SF 1.25 for a DC motor. I don't why the ADC and Warp motors do not have 
Motor label that list the specifications of the motor. 
 
My General Electric motor does. It list the DC motor as 165 volts at 175 
Amps at 32 HP with a SF of 1.25 meaning the over voltage can be about 208 
Volts and the over ampere can be 218 amperes continuous. 
 
Roland 
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> 
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:03 AM 
Subject: The flow of current 
 
 
> 
> If my motor is rated for 300 amps at 30 volts.. 
> 
> If I increase the voltage ..To 36 volts will the amount of amps that it 
> uses 
> decrease as the voltage increases.. 
> 
> Or will the amps remain constant? 
> 
> Thanks Mitchell 
> 
> 
 
 

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