EV Digest 7046
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motor volts, was Re: 6v or 12v
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) David, Remove this Troll!! Re: "Tree House" Controller
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Curtis Battery Book
by James Drysdale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) single point battery automatic watering systems
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Electric Evette
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: 6v or 12v
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Drawbacks re Zap Xebra motor?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: "Tree House" Controller
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) regen thoughts
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: MetricMind in the news
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: MetricMind in the news
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Electric Evette
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: MetricMind in the news
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: regen thoughts
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: MetricMind in the news
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: new motor concept, brushless
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Unrealistic expectations (was Re: 'Tree House' Controller
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: MetricMind in the news
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Virtual Instrumentation Solution
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Fast Charging
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re:1st street ev smile/frown
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: ICS-200 (not 2000) Charger
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: ICS-200 (not 2000) Charger
by Jim Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: 6v or 12v
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: VW Super EV Project for Sale
by "Jim Sylvester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: new motor concept, brushless
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Zilla inside picture (Hot, Cold and Broken)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: ICS-2000 Charger
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: single point battery automatic watering systems
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: MetricMind in the news
by "Freddie Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: 1st street ev smile/frown
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
In fact it's a bit worse because wire insulation is stressed by high
dV/dT, PWM being a worse-case situation although these freqs are not
extremely high.
The stress not only has a greater potential to break down insulation-
new or old- but it will also actually wear out insulation faster.
The same is true of elevated temps, fortunately motor insulation was
designed for higher temps.
The fact remains though that I've heard very little of anyone having an
insulation failure even though these motors are often run at many times
their initial rated voltage. That is enough evidence for me that it is
not a significant issue in these specific apps.
Danny
James Massey wrote:
At 11:44 PM 20/07/07 -0400, Dimitri wrote:
If you're using a Zilla, you can limit motor volts while still having
a 240v battery pack.
G'day All
(I'm back, for those who are interested, I signed off for a little
while to free up some time).
When running a PWM controller, any PWM controller, your motor will see
the turned-on pulse voltage. The Zilla controller limit is the average
maximum voltage the motor sees. For example, if you had a pack at 240V
and limited the motor to 120V the controller will not go above 50% on
time. The motor still gets those 240V pulses, however, so the
insulation must be in good condition to put up with it.
If the motor insulation is not up to it, you could end up developing
two frame shorts in the motor (or a frame short in the motor and
another at the batteries, if their insulation to frame is not up to it
either).
Hope this helps.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
Please remove this troll as he is just here to
satify his sick need for attention and makes helping others
harder and wastes everyones time. Life is too short to put
up with him.
And others should stop answering his posts
too. It just encourages him.
Thank you,
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: "Tree House" Controller
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 03:43:47 +0200
>I didn't really want to dignigy the two attacks on me
>because they were not worth it but it seems there is
>several people that have a hard time recognizing the truth
>when they hear it. perhaps you all might notice how Lee
>Hart called everyone trying to develop a controller on a
>budget a misguided incompetent child trying to build a
>crappy tree house certain to fail. while Lee might have
>helped someone in the past he was certainly not trying to
>help here.
>
>Dan
>
>John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>> At 04:18 PM 7/20/2007, storm connors wrote:
>>> Dan,
>>> Is there something in your makeup that causes you to
>>> disparage those who are trying to be helpful? You have
>>continually acted in a childish
>> You need to add Dan to your killfile. That way you never
>> see his posts. Makes the list much more pleasant.
>> In Eudora, you just add a filter to check for his Email
>> in the From: address and have the msgs discarded.
>>
>> --
>> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
>> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
JS wrote:
> I am sure it has been said before, but many of the battery questions
> are answered in the Curtis Battery Book at
>
> http://evbatterymonitoring.com/
>
> John in Sylmar, CA
> PV EV
>
Thankyou, hadn't seen this before.
What a useful post :-)
Cheers,
James.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone on the list have experience w/ these systems and can recommend
one system over another or provide any other useful data for comparison
(cost, performance, etc..)??
Thx, Mike
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
For those of you that have not seen the "Evette" you can go to
electricevette.com , or youtube at electricevette. See ya.
Tom Sines
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>If you're using a Zilla, you can limit motor volts while still having a
240v
>battery pack.
PWM controllers limit average motor volts, but the peak voltage seen
at the motor is still pretty much pack voltage. It's averaged out in
the inductance of the field and armature, but the brushes still see
the peak voltages.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All motors run on AC. (Thought some vary 0-b+ and some vary -B to B+,
but we will ignore stepper motors for now)
There are internally commutated that we like to call DC
Shunt,series, PM and compound.
Then there are externally commutated motors that we mostly call AC
We even call some of these externally commutated motors DC "ie
brushless DC" depending on their BEMF waveform,(either sinusoidal vs
trapisodial wound)
Induction, --have 3-5% slip, require VF drive or amps at start is
high for torque produced. Broad rpm/eff curve
singlephase --Can't start under load
polyphase --great choice for EV
wound rotor aka "slip-ring" --The oldfashioned super motor, High
torque at low rpm with low amps.
BLAC, --Permanent magnet sinusoidal BEMF, Very high effiency at a
certain rpm. Sharp pointed curve
BLDC, --More efficient in the controller, less switching losses,
cheaper controller, but torque ripple and noise issues
SR, -- Simple robust solid hunk of steal rotor, Great for high rpm.
Repulsion, ?
ShadedPole, --Cheap way to get a direction of rotation by sacrificing
effiency. No use in traction applications, just use polyphase.
AC systems currently available for automotive applications were designed
for that application, are destined for the high end market and are
efficient partially because they can't handle NOT being efficient, but
mostly because it was designed in.
DC systems are mostly adapted for use in road going Electric vehicles
and were designed with different markets in mind.
Brush loss is usually the same or less than loss due to slipping in an
AC motor.
AC motors have inherit adjustable timeing so to speak. Most dc motors
are fixed.
In order to get the power, AC motors increase the pole count, crank up
the frequency and gear down the result. Better materials must be used
when you do this so effiency is a little higher than a DC amp monster.
So when we say AC more efficient than DC we should qualify that with
what kind of DC built for what market vs what kind of AC motor built for
what market.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you made a website with the circuit design so others can learn from
it? or even use it
Dale Ulan wrote:
It really is impressive watching (and listening) to a 300 amp
IGBT blow up. It's impressive when your row of TO-247 MOSFET's,
all in parallel, blow, leaving only the legs standing. And you
don't even know what happened, but you have a smoking carcass
of a controller in front of you. When I was designing an EV
battery charger, I asked someone with more engineering
experience how many spare IGBT's and other bits I should
buy. He told me, seriously, get a couple of rails of them
(50 or 60 parts), and buy that many driver chips, too. He was
right. After three smoked PC boards, and probably 46 blown
IGBT's, I had a charger that actually worked. This was a
25 amp, 250 volt PWM charger, operating at around 10 kHz.
That was only at 25 amps. Of course, I wasn't as smart back
then, so I'd probably be able to do it with maybe 3 or 4 blow-ups
now. And that's 25 amps!!!
The detail that goes into a controller is impressive. Shaping
the turn-on or turn-off of the MOSFET or IGBT is critical.
Too slow, they get too hot or the oscillate then blow up.
Too fast, the high voltage spikes cause explosions, or the
diode recovery time causes a rapid explosion. In an SCR control,
if you apply insufficient gate drive, it blows up. If you
apply too much gate drive, you blow things up too. Then you
have to make sure your circuit will always fire the commutation
SCR's in the right order and at the right times. If you don't
then you get full battery to motor, no current limiting,
and then something blows up. In some circuits, you only get
one shot to commutate. If you fire the turn-off SCR, and for
some reason the main SCR stays on (maybe noise, whatever),
then you don't get another shot. Open a contactor and hope
it doesn't weld itself shut.
It's a case of people who have made the smoke already trying
to help others not waste a lot of time and money blowing
things up. Every time this topic comes up in EVDL, it's
the same thing. It gets confrontational, and in the end,
the people who have blown up stuff are almost always right.
I'm looking at a new glider tonight, light car in ok shape
but with a blown engine. Perfect! Which drive system?
Brushless DC or AC induction? Which batteries? I dunno.
Looking forward to a new project!!!
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, you guys can shoot me down and call me an idiot on this one, but I've
just had this thought on my brain for some time, and probably just too lazy
to google around enough to shoot it down myself.
Considering that an ice skater can speed up or slow down a spin by moving
his/her arms in/out, could the same principle be applied in a "regen"
capacity for an EV motor - I know that would either entail redesigning the
motor or some kind of add-on to the tail shaft, considering that the idea
had any merit at all....
You can go ahead and fill me full of lead now!
Thanks in advance for putting me out of my misery,
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IMHO providing the general public an opportunity to
lease an EV is good.
Mark
--- JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> PHOTO CAPTION: Plotting an automotive revolution.
> Victor Tikhonov
> (left), the owner of MetricMind looks on as Victor
> Juarez (center) and
> Xavier Niebla (right) discuss the placement of
> batteries in their next
> electric car project, this one destined for lease in
> the United States
> starting in early 2008.
> - - - - - - - - -
> See the article and pic at
> http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1294
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good on yah Victor! :)
On 7/21/07, Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
IMHO providing the general public an opportunity to
lease an EV is good.
Mark
--- JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> PHOTO CAPTION: Plotting an automotive revolution.
> Victor Tikhonov
> (left), the owner of MetricMind looks on as Victor
> Juarez (center) and
> Xavier Niebla (right) discuss the placement of
> batteries in their next
> electric car project, this one destined for lease in
> the United States
> starting in early 2008.
> - - - - - - - - -
> See the article and pic at
> http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1294
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there a page with more specs of it? Like what controller and
batteries it is using? What sort of watt/hrs per mile is it getting
for the 200 mile range?
Also, it looked like it's got some sort of off-road tires on it, which
seems like a really bizarre choice for a sportscar (I know alot of
people who put big off-road tires on their subarus, and they really
don't work for highway well at all...noisy and lousy handling).
It mentions a 60mph top speed, but that seems rather low for self
preservation there (I lived in florida for a year, and people drive
90mph on the 55mph highways). Also seems like it should be able to
go much faster. Is is a power, gearing, or tires issue that is
limiting the speed now? Or just further testing needed.
Z
On 7/21/07, Tom S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
For those of you that have not seen the "Evette" you can go to
electricevette.com , or youtube at electricevette. See ya.
Tom Sines
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For the general public, yes. Most people probably are a little
hesitant about an EV, and a lease is a good way to ease them into it.
Instead of committing to buying something they are not really sure
about...
I would never lease an EV though -- not after the EV1 fiasco.
Z
On 7/21/07, Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
IMHO providing the general public an opportunity to
lease an EV is good.
Mark
--- JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> PHOTO CAPTION: Plotting an automotive revolution.
> Victor Tikhonov
> (left), the owner of MetricMind looks on as Victor
> Juarez (center) and
> Xavier Niebla (right) discuss the placement of
> batteries in their next
> electric car project, this one destined for lease in
> the United States
> starting in early 2008.
> - - - - - - - - -
> See the article and pic at
> http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1294
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Michael,
So.. are you suggesting using movable counterweights in some fashion
in order to slow down a motor's revolutions per minute? Other losses
aside, in a friction free environment when you move weights outward
from a spinning body it slows down the RPM, but does nothing to the
total energy. Ice skaters do this to get a handle on their speed and
so they can stand a chance of braking their spin once they are done
spinning, but in a motor the only advantage I can see would be as an
adjunct to storing energy in a spinning mass...you could set the
weights to float positions.. software sets the position depending on
the RPMs of the shaft, stores the energy and then goes into a regen
cycle, extracts it, again floating the RPMs (in theory) to be most
compatible with the generating apparati (the
motor/alternator/whatever). You'd probably need a reasonably
sophisticated control program. However, it seems that you would get
more efficiency just regenning directly.
If you were going to use a system of storing all regen energy via
counterweights it would be a useful idea though. I'm guessing some of
the satellite gear devices I've seen do something like this.
Maybe you could give more detail as to your idea?
--T
On 7/21/07, Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, you guys can shoot me down and call me an idiot on this one, but I've
just had this thought on my brain for some time, and probably just too lazy
to google around enough to shoot it down myself.
Considering that an ice skater can speed up or slow down a spin by moving
his/her arms in/out, could the same principle be applied in a "regen"
capacity for an EV motor - I know that would either entail redesigning the
motor or some kind of add-on to the tail shaft, considering that the idea
had any merit at all....
You can go ahead and fill me full of lead now!
Thanks in advance for putting me out of my misery,
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, if they had Lease - to - own with no conditions except a buyer
"purchase on demand" clause (in other words, if the lessee wants to
buy it, they get to buy it.. period), then it would avoid that
problem, no?
On 7/21/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
For the general public, yes. Most people probably are a little
hesitant about an EV, and a lease is a good way to ease them into it.
Instead of committing to buying something they are not really sure
about...
I would never lease an EV though -- not after the EV1 fiasco.
Z
On 7/21/07, Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> IMHO providing the general public an opportunity to
> lease an EV is good.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> --- JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > PHOTO CAPTION: Plotting an automotive revolution.
> > Victor Tikhonov
> > (left), the owner of MetricMind looks on as Victor
> > Juarez (center) and
> > Xavier Niebla (right) discuss the placement of
> > batteries in their next
> > electric car project, this one destined for lease in
> > the United States
> > starting in early 2008.
> > - - - - - - - - -
> > See the article and pic at
> > http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1294
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fizzy,
You are talking about an in-wheel motor, it sounds like :)
Here is a whitepaper on that.. specifically for a solar car, but the
information in useful:
http://www.cip.csiro.au/Machines/papers/iwscem/
Also, google for 'wheel motor' and 'in-wheel motor'.
--T
On 7/20/07, Fizzy Electricity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Greetings from a new member.
A question to anyone who can offer me help with the following concept for a
hub mounted motor.
Firstly, the motor is going to be mounted in a 37 inch diameter wheel. The
rotor will be static, and mounted to the chassis via the suspension, and the
rim will revolve around it and contain the permanent magnets. It is desired
that the inner part be hollow for aesthetic reasons, and to help increase
mechanical torque on the 37 inch drive wheel.
The vehicle is a single seater, with the 37 inch wheel at the rear being
driven from the internal hub motor. There will be two wheels at the front to
complete the trike design.
It will need to do about 538 rpm to do 100 Km/h and will have no
transmission.
Question: what sort of gauge wire will i need, and how many turns ? can the
windings be rhombic ? I'm told i may need 40 lots of windings and something
like 9 magnets. The power will be supplied by lead acids at 55Ah each, and
there will be enough room for 10 to 12 12V batteries, plus one auxiliary.
Thanks
Grant Clinch
_________________________________________________________________
Watch all 9 Live Earth concerts live on MSN. http://liveearth.uk.msn.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good point Peter. I don't think many people realize the sheer power
of automobiles, compared to everything else in their life that uses
power.
When powering a house from batteries/PV, we generally stick to a 7 to
11kW set of inverters for the big ones -- and many operate from less
than 4kW. And, one of these 4kW inverters is at least $2k (not
including all the circuit breakers and wires and such). Isn't it
rather amazing that we can get a 60kW inverter for an AC drive system
for only $8k or something like that....
Heck, an electric bicycle peaks out at about the same power draw as my house....
Z
On 7/20/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Tree house controller", I like that Lee.
I think the main problem here is unrealistic expectations. There are
about 1,000 people on this list and we all want a cheap and effective
controller. The problem is that "cheap" controllers are already
available, they just don't meet our misguided definition of "cheap"
I don't think many of the newbies realize how much power it takes to move
a car.
The 450 Amp curtis controllers are generally accepted as being "whimpy"
and under powered. Yet this lowly controller is capable of handling more
power than a modern house with ALL of the appliances running at the same
time (including the hot tub).
The lowly Curtis is capable of handling more power than a 200 Amp service
panel, which is nothing but circuit breakers and wire, and yet people want
to buy a controller like this (or more powerfull) that said service panel
costs.
People, go down to the hardware store and price out a complete 200 amp
service panel and compare that to what you think you can build a
controller for. Keep in mind that the service panel has no silicon, no
PWM control, nothing but circuit breakers, and also keep in mind that
these parts are mass produced in the 100s of thousands, possibly millions.
Once you do that, you'll realize what a bargin DC motor controllers are.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, that might work.
On 7/21/07, Timothy Balcer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, if they had Lease - to - own with no conditions except a buyer
"purchase on demand" clause (in other words, if the lessee wants to
buy it, they get to buy it.. period), then it would avoid that
problem, no?
On 7/21/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For the general public, yes. Most people probably are a little
> hesitant about an EV, and a lease is a good way to ease them into it.
> Instead of committing to buying something they are not really sure
> about...
>
> I would never lease an EV though -- not after the EV1 fiasco.
>
> Z
>
> On 7/21/07, Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > IMHO providing the general public an opportunity to
> > lease an EV is good.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > --- JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > PHOTO CAPTION: Plotting an automotive revolution.
> > > Victor Tikhonov
> > > (left), the owner of MetricMind looks on as Victor
> > > Juarez (center) and
> > > Xavier Niebla (right) discuss the placement of
> > > batteries in their next
> > > electric car project, this one destined for lease in
> > > the United States
> > > starting in early 2008.
> > > - - - - - - - - -
> > > See the article and pic at
> > > http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1294
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/19/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Timothy Balcer wrote:
> I was wondering... if you shielded and twisted all of your cable runs,
> and made your battery boxes Faraday tight, would that eliminate some
> of the noise trouble? I realize you get EMF from the motor and
> controller.. could that be limited as well with a faraday shield
> surrounding, or perhaps at least shielding in the right directions,
> the engine compartment?
Sure; you can shield it as tightly as desired, to the point where the
noise is undetectable without delicate instruments. However, that costs
money.
People are of course reluctant to spend money on things unless they are
sure it's necessary.
I don't know about you Lee, but I like my music ;)
Hmm. Now I'll have to go and price out copper foil! Hmm... and maybe
use copper water pipe for runs ;-)
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/19/07, John G. Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 08:38 AM 7/19/2007, Lee Hart wrote:
>I think I mentioned this before to John, but for the benefit of the
>rest of the list...
>
>You can replace the special resistor on the Rudman regulators with a
>standard 10w or 20w ceramic tube resistor. This type consists of a
>hollow ceramic tube, with the resistance wire wound on it, a
>terminal on each end, and a ceramic glase over it for insulation.
Note that this is only for the OLD style regulators. Not the current
version. (I have MKIIC regs)
>Route a copper tube through the center of each one. Pump water (or
>oil or something) through them all. This carries away the heat
>neatly, with no need for fans or heatsinks.
Frankly, I find that mounting a little CPU fan, and plugging it into
the connector on the reg is a LOT easier than routing a cooling line
all over the place, adding pump, radiator, etc...
True.. but not as effective :)
Hm... well, you could use a Peltier cooler if you just wanted to slab
the entire back of the board with cooling. Or some other arrangement.
It's not as if you are lacking power in an EV ;)
--T
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It is just a glorified 208 or 240 vac outlet. The ISC
200 or any other type of "charger" just passes ac
power to the vehicle in a form that satisfies all the
requirements for national electric code.
You can get the inlet from Avcon, www.avconev.com, the
email is dead, but if you call the number it's for the
Meltrix (I think it was them if I remember right)
company, just ask for the Avcon person. They have to
inlets, the "Honda" and the "Ford", get the Ford one
it has a longer cable and has the pilot emulator built
in so you won't have to muck with having to try to
tell the charger to send power.
The only thing is you'll need an actual charger on the
vehicle side that will accept a 208 or 240 volt input.
If the connector on the end doesn't look like the
Avcon connector then you might have one of the weird
Yazaki ones too Toyota used before they went
inductive.
Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"
> > From: "Steve Gibbs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'"
> <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: ICS-200 (not 2000) Charger
> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 22:21:23 -0500
>
> I have acquired a couple ICS 200 (not 2000, as I
> mistyped the first time)
> chargers, and am looking for more information
> related to them. Does anyone
> there have any technical information regarding this
> charger? I have the
> User's Guide and Installation Manual.
>
>
>
> Has anyone documented interfacing this device to a
> 1998 S10 EV? I'd like to
> check out the feasibility of using this charger
> rather than the Magnecharger
> if possible.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
I have a hard-copy of the ICS-200B Service Manual (dated 1/19/99).
I found soft-copies (PDFs) here:
http://www.bowzerbird.com/eviweb/download.html
Regards
--- Steve Gibbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have acquired a couple ICS 200 (not 2000, as I mistyped the first
> time)
> chargers, and am looking for more information related to them. Does
> anyone
> there have any technical information regarding this charger? I have the
> User's Guide and Installation Manual.
>
>
>
> Has anyone documented interfacing this device to a 1998 S10 EV? I'd
> like to
> check out the feasibility of using this charger rather than the
> Magnecharger
> if possible.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
From: Dale Ulan
> PWM controllers limit average motor volts, but the peak voltage seen
> at the motor is still pretty much pack voltage. It's averaged out in
> the inductance of the field and armature, but the brushes still see
> the peak voltages.
Not quite. The field of a series motor has most of the inductance, so most of
the AC voltage drop is across it. Let's say your pack is 120vdc, and your PWM
controller is switching 0 120v 0 120v at a 50% duty cycle. The average armature
voltage is 50% of 120v = 60v. But the instantaneous armature voltage will be
something like 50v 70v 50v 70v (20 volts peak-to-peak), and the instantaneous
field voltage will be -50v +50v -50v +50v (100 volts peak-to-peak).
If there is no series field (PM motor), then of course the armature and brushes
see the full 0 120v 0 120v voltage.
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
I would be interested in this vehicle. Please contact me off list to set up
an appiontment to see it.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn M. Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:22 PM
Subject: VW Super EV Project for Sale
Hi Everyone,
Well I'm selling a VW Beetle project that I don't have time for right and
it's looking like I won't have time for anytime soon. So, I'm selling it!
I have the car and parts up on eBay (item 230154106495) with LOTS of
pictures.
Here are the basics:
1973 VW Super Beetle
8" Advanced DC 4001 Motor
New Adapter Plate, Pressure Plate, Clutch, Gland Nut
Motor Mount Bracket
Curtis 1231C 120VDC 550A Controller
PB6 Throttle
120VDC Charger 15A
New Tires and Front Disc Brakes
New Shifter
Dash Cover
I am also including a brand new tow bar that I bought for it and the
domain name for the project site I created (www.evbug.net)
Please let me know off-list if anyone has any questions.
Thanks,
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Peter VanDerWal
> Just a suggestion, but before you attempt a motor that would give
> an MIT Physics class nightmares, perhaps you could try building
> some smaller, simpler, BLDC motors? Once you figure out how to
> make them work reliably, you'll already know the answer to this
> question.
I agree. Motor designs scale very well, and are highly predictable. Making a
small working model is a lot easier and cheaper. You can learn a lot about the
strengths and weaknesses of your design, and do as many redesigns as it takes
to get it to work satisfactorily,
On rhombic windings; get some surplus "printed circuit" motors, and take them
apart to learn from. It is particularly easy to make small printed circuit
motors. The rotor is a printed circuit board, which is easy to design and get
small quantities made at very high precision.
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Cor van de Water
> article about thermal design "Hot Cold and Broken"...
> "This electric-car-motor controller experienced a catastrophic
> failure (courtesy Otmar Ebenhoech)."
> http://www.edn.com/article/CA6426879.html?ref=nbsa
That's (what's left of) a Curtis 1221 controller.
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't read what you're saying. Please use plain text instead so we
can read your e-mails.
On 7/20/07, Steve Gibbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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--- Begin Message ---
I think I've seen these convers you put on batteries that puts water
back into the battery.
I don't remember if you added water to it, or if it used the hydrogen
the battery produced or what.
On 7/21/07, Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Does anyone on the list have experience w/ these systems and can recommend
one system over another or provide any other useful data for comparison
(cost, performance, etc..)??
Thx, Mike
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree about the lease option. I would not want to lease any vehicle that
I did not have the option to purchase. Also it would depend on what
happened with the money that you had already spent on the lease. Would this
money be lost or would it be taken off of the purchase price of the EV. I
am definitely interested in purchasing a new EV, depending on price, but I
would be very skeptical about leasing anything without an owner purchase
clause included.
Thanks, Freddie
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/899
http://www.southernev.com/dakotaev.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Zeke Yewdall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 11:49 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: MetricMind in the news
Yeah, that might work.
On 7/21/07, Timothy Balcer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, if they had Lease - to - own with no conditions except a buyer
> "purchase on demand" clause (in other words, if the lessee wants to
> buy it, they get to buy it.. period), then it would avoid that
> problem, no?
>
> On 7/21/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > For the general public, yes. Most people probably are a little
> > hesitant about an EV, and a lease is a good way to ease them into it.
> > Instead of committing to buying something they are not really sure
> > about...
> >
> > I would never lease an EV though -- not after the EV1 fiasco.
> >
> > Z
> >
> > On 7/21/07, Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > IMHO providing the general public an opportunity to
> > > lease an EV is good.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > PHOTO CAPTION: Plotting an automotive revolution.
> > > > Victor Tikhonov
> > > > (left), the owner of MetricMind looks on as Victor
> > > > Juarez (center) and
> > > > Xavier Niebla (right) discuss the placement of
> > > > batteries in their next
> > > > electric car project, this one destined for lease in
> > > > the United States
> > > > starting in early 2008.
> > > > - - - - - - - - -
> > > > See the article and pic at
> > > > http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1294
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
____________________________________________________________________________
________
> > > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
Yahoo! FareChase.
> > > http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
> In a message dated 7/21/2007 1:01:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The S10 project I started 18 months ago ran under its own power this morning
a couple of miles.Its a ROCKET!! BUT I did not put the hood pins in the hood
so I now have a smashed hood,cowling and windshield.Back to the paint shop on
monday.
<
Bummer about the hood. Bet that was exciting though!
>
The air locker rear end really does work keeps the truck strait on a
hard take off.The reverse circuit allows about 3mph even on a good grade.I
never
saw over 400 motor amps on the hard takeoffs that I did.To refresh all this
s10 has a full 7.50 nhra cage,a 13in motor,a air locker 9 inch ford rear with
40
spline axels.Its all still steel and real glass windows including the rear
window with the cage coming through it.Beard race seats,tach,spedo,volt and
ampmeter and aux.voltmeter.The amp and volt meters read battery and motor
amps/volts.It has a zilla 2khv,rudman 20 charger,air front suspension,coil
over ladder
bar rear suspension,32 26ah hawker genisis,dc to dc stepup,ect.
<
STOP!!!! Your making me drool all over my keyboard!
:)
Ken
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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