EV Digest 7066

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: chevy transmissions...
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Indicator lamps for contactor operation
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Simple Controller
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Toyota Plug in Prius Video
        by "T. Marshall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Two EV vans on e-bay
        by "Ian Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Vectrix, a first ride.
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Using Labjack for NiCad cell testing
        by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by "David S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Vectrix, a first ride.
        by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Let My People Convert! - The A123 Challenge
        by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Using Labjack for NiCad cell testing
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Let My People Convert! - The A123 Challenge
        by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Simple Controller
        by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, the 1992 C10 adapter plate made by Electro Auto, fits my 1975 V8 Chevy 
bell housing using the top 5 bolt holes and fits the two guide pins.  The 
bottom of the adapter plate is shape a little different, but it still work.

It is now in the EV connected to a T-10 manual transmission using the long 
throw out bearing, because the Electro Auto adapter plate is thicker which 
moves the transmission back some.  Was able to fit the unit in, because my 
drive line yoke had plenty of slip yet.

Before I did this install the Warp 9 as a replacement while my GE motor is 
in maintenance. I went to a independent auto parts store, where they also do 
transmission work, said YES, the C10 V6's will bolt up to the V8's.

The early model V8's, the 256's, 283's, 327's and some 350's have a internal 
balance engines, where the cranks in some of these are forge steel, which I 
made my own motor adapter out of the large diameter crank flange, by 
machining a taper lock bushing in it.  The transmission input shaft can go 
all the through this large flange so the transmission input shaft can insert 
into the pilot bushing that is inside the motor shaft.

The later models GM engines had gone to a small diameter crank flange which 
is the same as on the later model V-8's and v-6's.  The Electro Auto motor 
adapter coupler, does not allow the transmission to fit into the motor 
shaft, but would push back the transmission in my EV about 3/4 inch of 
diameter.

I only need a 2 inch thick adapter plate, but Electro auto makes these in 
two sections which is 2.75 inches thick.  I was be able to to fit the Warp 
9, the Electro Auto 2.75 inch adapter plate for the C-10 1992 v6 to a 1975 
350 cu.in. forge steel bell housing to a T10 manual transmission or even my 
TH-400 automatic fits the adapter plate also.

The only thing I am using, is a Chevy 350 cu.in. 12 inch by 3/4 inch thin 
down fly wheel and 10 inch clutch and long throw out bear which is for a 
internal balance engine, instead of the 1992 V6 14 inch flywheel and clutch 
that is external balance, which must be balance and modified.

To verify all this, just go to a transmission shop like I did.  I took my 
bell housing to see how it would fit on one of the C10 transmission and it 
fit.  The top portion of the transmission has the same pattern as the bell 
housing, but the bottom part of the C10 transmission is not round like the 
bell housing, but it work out ok.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: chevy transmissions...


> Roland,
>
> I thought the 60 degree engines had a different bolt pattern than the
> 90 degree V8s?  I know that an adapter plate is required to mate the
> transaxle in my Fiero to a SBC but the 90 degree 3800cc V6 will bolt
> right up...  Also, the 3.4L F-body engines will bolt right onto my
> trans and are in fact nearly identical to my stock 2.8L V6.
>
> Are you certain about what you're saying?  I think a bell housing
> change may be needed to get certain engine's bolt patterns on certain
> longitudinal transmissions.
>
> Or am I just completely confused?
>
> Trot, the fact-checking, fox...
>
> On 7/26/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hello Zeke,
> >
> > Option No. 2 would be easy to do.  Any C-10 transmission that fits a V-6
> > engine will fit any V-8 engine bell housing pattern.  To fit different 
> > drive
> > lines, all you have to do is cut off the yoke on the drive line to the
> > length you need, weld on a new yoke that may have to be turn a bit, so 
> > it
> > can slip into the existing drive line tubing.
>
> -- 
> |  /\_/\       TrotFox         \ Always remember,
> | ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
> |  >\_/<       [EMAIL PROTECTED]       \ third alternative."
>
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Major wrote:
6.8 Ohms is pretty low for a true shunt motor.  Lee's
got a pretty good take on it... Good news is that you'll
be able to over excite for accel torque.

If you can come up with a variable power supply for
the field, 100 V, 15A, or at least 50 V, 8A, you could
run some bench tests to figure out how to control the
field.  If you can drive the armature of the beast at
a constant RPM, you can take a no load magnetization
curve.  That would be helpful when you design your
control and give you a real good idea of safe field
current.

One way to figure out the safe field current is to measure its cold resistance, calculate its hot resistance for (say) a 40 deg.C rise (typical for a motor winding), and then experimentally find out how much field voltage it takes to cause this resistance rise.

The temperature coefficient of copper is very predictable, so this test method is quite an accurate way to measure a winding's temperature.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Lot of replies about what lamp would work, but two things:

1) Wouldn't a lamp on the controller side of the contactor from B+ to
   B- stay on a _long_ time, until the capacitor bank discharges?

Yes, it does. I put it there as an indication that high voltage is present.

2) Similarly, a lamp across the [contactor's contacts] could charge
   the capacitor bank when the contactor is open, unless the leakage
   is enough to keep the lamp lit.

Yes, it could. Controllers need 20ma or more to precharge. A light bulb as originally suggested would supply this much current, and so precharge the controller most of the way towards full pack voltage. In fact, light bulbs are often used as precharge resistors.

But a very low current lamp (neon or LED with large series resistor) could limit the current to a low enough level so the controller won't precharge. Controller voltage will sit noticeably above zero volts, but not enough to actually power up. The neon or LED would of course be on continuously.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BrownGassyTurd wrote:
I've heard attempts at web based "EVDL replacements" (if you choose
to consider them that) have failed in the past, but don't see why they
can't co-exist and even complement each other.

Many people have tried to make an improved forum for the EVDL, but so far, no one has succeeded (where "success" is defined as getting even 10% of the participation level of the EVDL).

I don't think it's a technological problem -- it's a human problem. The EVDL just happens to have an exceptionally talented group of people reading and writing for it. I participate because of these people! Not because I like the interface!

The way some here speak of those new-fangled web based boards makes me
wonder if the EVDL's mission is being fulfilled to the fullest extent
possible.

I've tried some of the other new forum people have started, and frankly, they just didn't work for me. It took longer to read messages on them, and longer to post things to them. I'm limited to dial-up, and all the graphics and glamour just got in the way. They were harder to use than plain old email.

It seems to me that what is needed is a 'bridge' from the EVDL to a more modern, attractive, glamourous web-based viewer. Imagine, if you will, that a human read the EVDL every day, deleted the spam, reformatted the HTML posts so they were readable, changed the Subject lines to a consistent format for fast searching, edited out mindless repetition, and standardized the way data is presented. The result was posted on a website daily, and also archived and indexed so you could easily look up old posts or view all the posts in a particular thread together.

You could even have non-subscribers to the EVDL post replies to the web-based viewer; this human could serve as moderator, and edit the replies for proper content and format, and then post them to the EVDL through his membership ID.

I think a lot of people would choose to read that format. They would probably do so even if they had to pay a fee to subscribe to it; after all, that human is spending time daily doing editing that saves you time!

None of this affects the EVDL itself directly; it works the same as it always has. Deletes take 1/2 second. Replies can be made as fast as you type. You can say anything, unmoderated. You see all the gory details, bad formatting, typos, accidental attachments that get through, ASCII art, and other "endearing" artifacts of luddite technology.

But here's the problem. Nobody wants to do the work. They want to automate the above process, with some software package (that they didn't write, either). The software isn't smart enough to do any of the above things "right", so it winds up doing a half-assed job of it, creating more problems than it solves. It looks prettier, but works worse.

Still bummed I wasn't worthy of an invite though,

Like Groucho Marx said, "I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member."

--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
300 amps is not going to get much moving very fast.

Dan Frederiksen wrote:
people on the list seem to indicate that that would cover normal
driving ok. maybe 400amps. to begin with I'm not looking for a racing controller, but one that would enable ICE like performance all the way to highway speed.

My EV is a Renault LeCar, with an ADC L91 6.7" motor and Curtis 1231C controller, turned down to 400 amps max. It is no drag racer, but is plenty peppy enough to keep up with traffic and do 70+ mph on the freeway. A 120v 400amp system is more than adequate for a small light car.

should it be needed, extending the max amps seems largely trivial

Seems like it; but it isn't. Things get exponentially more complicated, not linear. I.e. going from 500a to 1000a is more than twice the cost.

You need more like 1000 amps on the motors... or a LOT of gear reduction.

Yes, if your goal is to outperform most ICE cars.

Direct drive EVs do it with controllers that deliver 1000+amps at the motor. Most hobby EVs do it by keeping the transmission and shifting (just like an ICE, which also lacks torque).

Try a more attainable design like 120 VDC and 600 amps on the motor
loop. You get to use affordable 200 volt Mosfets also.

This is a good formula for a relatively inexpensive controller to deliver performance better than the stock ICE in a small light car, or adequate performance in a car of normal weight.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---



From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:24:51 -0500

It seems to me that what is needed is a 'bridge' from the EVDL to a more modern, attractive, glamourous web-based viewer. Imagine, if

<snip ... alot of good ideas>

But here's the problem. Nobody wants to do the work. They want to automate the above process, with some software package (that they didn't write, either). The software isn't smart enough to do any of the above things "right", so it winds up doing a half-assed job of it, creating more problems than it solves. It looks prettier, but works worse.



Ouch Lee, I was reading through your list and immediately my mind started thinking of how to automate all the things you were listing off, and then you totally shot me down... Your probably right though, it would be very difficult to come up with an itelligent enough system to put it all together and certainly no one would take on the task of doing all that work manually.

To my credit however, I was not thinking of using someone else's software to do the job :-)

damon

_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/26/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It seems to me that what is needed is a 'bridge' from the EVDL to a more
> modern, attractive, glamourous web-based viewer. Imagine, if you will,
> that a human read the EVDL every day, deleted the spam, reformatted the
> HTML posts so they were readable, changed the Subject lines to a
> consistent format for fast searching, edited out mindless repetition,
> and standardized the way data is presented. The result was posted on a
> website daily, and also archived and indexed so you could easily look up
> old posts or view all the posts in a particular thread together.

At risk of mindless repetition, you can get pretty close to this
simply by using Gmail with the existing list.  It's usable over dialup
or offline, and when you've tried it you will never go back :)

Once the html-stripping/truncating message thing is sorted out on the
server it will be perfect.

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--- Begin Message ---
Jeff from EV Bones said there were some scarce S-10 parts inside the van,
but his assessment of the vans were not good (from the S-10 EV list):

"Seriously, these two vans are complete crap, and I have no idea how these
*extremely scarce* items wound up inside this guy's pile of junk. This
battery box is S-10 dedicated, and has absolutely nothing to do with the
vans for sale."

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Powers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:31 PM
To: ev
Subject: Two EV vans on e-bay

1989  GMC : 3500 Vandura Item number: 320138527359 

I noticed these 2 vans are still relatively cheap -
$1500 / ea.  One is NiCD.  One is NiMH.  Lots of
views, few bids.  Anyone know the history on these? 
Supposedly (according to the auction) the NiCDs are
still good and hold a charge.  Still, the vans are
listed as not running.


       
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I showed up at British Motor Cars in San Francisco & meet Tansy Brook for a
quick demo of the Vectrix & its controls.  It has reverse which is also a
very controlable regen function.  To start you turn the key, put up the
kickstand, hold the left brake and tap the right brake.  It then says GO.
The main speedometer is in KPH with MPH in smaller lettering below.  The
bike feels light.  I took it out on the street up a hill and it had plenty
of power.  I cruised up Eddy or Ellis(can't remember which) & went down
Gough  I got tremendous regen but halfway down the hill it cut out.  I'm
assuming that regen on a full charge isn't reliable.  I grabbed the brakes
and bounced down the hill.  I weigh 242.  The bike never felt out of
control.  I'm sure the wheelie poppers will like this soft but controlable
suspension.  On the rest of my ride I hardly used the hand brakes at all.
I'm 6'2' with a 30 inch inseam.  The Vectrix handled great. I was just a
little cramped compared to the memories of my Honda Helix.  The foot rests
were just a little closer with a steeper angle than the Helix. I did get
used to it and felt comfortable after a while.  Off the line the Helix might
be a little faster but at about 15 mph the Vectrix takes off like some of
the performance oriented EV's I've ridden in.  (Blue Meanie, Otmars
California Poppy Porsche & Deafscooters rocket rides come to mind) The 250cc
Helix probably wouldn't be able to catch up for a while.  The pack is NiMH &
had 48 miles registering when I left BMC.  After a ride in wet fog to
Taraval street going over twin peaks I then hit the freeway at Daly City
Blvd.  I dusted a BMW at the on ramp and sipped up to almost 65mph.  But
wait this vehicle has a capped speed of 62mph.  It seems to me an engineer
had something to do with this.  This is where the Honda Helix and other
250cc class scooters could catch up.  However the bike crused just fine at
this speed the four miles to my offramp.  At home I opened the garage door,
parked the Vectrix & cleaned out the parking area.  The Vectrix is larger
than my Lepton & needed a little more room.  I popped the trunk which is
held up by a stiff spring.  Touch the spring and the trunk closes.  Very
cleaver & cost effective I'm sure.  I gotta say WOW.  This vehicle went 14.5
miles & registered 29 miles left.  This was up and down hills and zipping
around.  I really didn't try to save any amp hours.  I would never drive any
of my electric vehicles like this.  The 4.5 mile penalty for hills and fast
acceleration was very acceptable as most evs are designed to register flat
ground as the basis for range.  Anyone who drives two wheel vehicles will be
impressed with this bike.  I just checked the pack after setting over night
& fully charged it registered 52 miles.  The Vectrix Corp. has done their
homework & produced a very acceptable ev.  There are few things I'd do
differently.  This vehicle is perfect for going across the Bay or Golden
Gate Bridges.  As a commute vehicle it has everything you need for a safe &
fast ride into San Francisco.  .I replaced the energy I used in less than
two hours at 120vdc. .I'm sure a full charge can be had in 4 hours or
less(Vectrix claims 80% in two hours) which means with the NiMH batteries
you could be 40 to 50 miles from your work and safely recharge for the ride
home.  If you are looking for a fully finished vehicle the Vectrix is in the
same class with the EV-1, Honda EV Plus or the Lepton scooter.  A turnkey
solution to the end of commuting pollution.  Lawrence Rhodes....

Contact:
Tansy Brook
British Motor Car Distributors, LTD
901 Van Ness Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94109
(415) 351 - 5114
(415) 776-7700 Main number

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/450 This guy makes crazy fast scooters.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/293 Otmars fast Porsche.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/36 John Wayland's fit & finish exceeds the
factory and his creations are fast to boot.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Lee Hart
It seems to me that what is needed is a 'bridge' from the EVDL to a more modern, attractive, glamourous web-based viewer... But here's the problem. Nobody wants to do the work. They want to automate the above process, with some software package (that they didn't write, either). The software isn't smart enough to do any of the above things "right", so it winds up doing a half-assed job of it, creating more problems than it solves. It looks prettier, but works worse.

damon henry wrote:
Ouch Lee, I was reading through your list and immediately my mind started thinking of how to automate all the things you were listing off, and then you totally shot me down... You're probably right though, it would be very difficult to come up with an intelligent enough system to put it all together and certainly no one would take on the task of doing all that work manually.

To my credit however, I was not thinking of using someone else's software to do the job :-)

Ah, now if you could write your own software to do this (or at least to automate most of it and make the rest simpler for the moderator), then I think you could pull it off!

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2007-07-26 at 12:49 -0500, Lee Hart wrote:
> From: Lee Hart
> >> It seems to me that what is needed is a 'bridge' from the EVDL to a 
> >> more modern, attractive, glamourous web-based viewer...
> >> But here's the problem. Nobody wants to do the work. They want to 
> >> automate the above process, with some software package (that they 
> >> didn't write, either). The software isn't smart enough to do any of 
> >> the above things "right", so it winds up doing a half-assed job of it, 
> >> creating more problems than it solves. It looks prettier, but works 
> >> worse.
> 
> damon henry wrote:
> > Ouch Lee, I was reading through your list and immediately my mind 
> > started thinking of how to automate all the things you were listing off, 
> > and then you totally shot me down...  You're probably right though, it 
> > would be very difficult to come up with an intelligent enough system to 
> > put it all together and certainly no one would take on the task of doing 
> > all that work manually.
> > 
> > To my credit however, I was not thinking of using someone else's 
> > software to do the job :-)
> 
> Ah, now if you could write your own software to do this (or at least to 
> automate most of it and make the rest simpler for the moderator), then I 
> think you could pull it off!
> 

I have to admit, I've had this idea for a couple months now.  My plan
was to modify the phpBB source to include a "mailing list" forum type.
The forum would look and feel like normal "local" web forums, but posts
would go to the list, and content would come from the list.  Posts would
be separated into threads by subject and/or message ID, and the benefit
to the list is that it would all be done under one list subscriber, for
the web forum as a whole. All other web forum subscribers would also be
list subscribers (so David would still have the means to ban or control
users, etc) but they would have their account set to not receive posts
(to keep list traffic down).  It would be a way to make the EVDL more
scalable and give people the nice forum interface they want.

Most importantly though, it would keep the conversation HERE, on the
EVDL. It would still *be* the EVDL. Eventually I'd planned to suggest to
David that the forum go up on EVDL.org.

I actually made some progress on it, but it's shelved at the moment.
Maybe I should pick it back up...


-- 
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org          <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Someone posted this link the other day and I had a look. http://www.labjack.com/labjack_u3.php?prodId=25

I've looked at the product and the spec sheets and I believe that it will work for what I want it to, but I thought I would double check before I get one.

Basically, I want to be able to monitor a series string of NiCad cells during a discharge test. I usually like to test them in quantities of about 10 or so at a time, and if I am reading the specs correctly I should be able to configure one I/O to monitor each cell voltage. I think I would still have another completely seperate channels left over which I could configure to take a reading of the discharge current off a shunt.

I've never worked with a device like this however, so I'm not sure I am reading everything correctly.

Does my plan look feasible?

thanks
Damon

_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do this kind of work for a living.

I would only attempt this if the owner of this list contacted me directly.
Otherwise I would not think that such an endeavor would be worthwhile. 

Yes the DIY forums are probably going to get some hits. Yes I signed up for
it when I saw the original post.
Yes I prefer the look of a web based forum.
Yes I prefer to the speed of a mailing list.

Yes I could make it to where you received an email for every new post.
No you would not need to log into the web to reply to a post.
Yes you could post a new topic without having to log into.
Yes it would be easier to search than the current mailing list(thanks
Google).
Yes you would be able to unsubscribe to a particular thread if you started
to think that it was getting off topic.
No it would probably not be quite as fast as the current system (That's an
awful big loop algorithm to detect who's is subscribed to a particular topic
and who is not.)

Once again if the current administrator of this mailing list was to contact
me I would develop the software for this for free but probably not
otherwise.


Out of respect for the current administrator of this mailing list this will
be my last reply to the group on this particular topic.


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:49 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: DIY Electric Car Forums

From: Lee Hart
>> It seems to me that what is needed is a 'bridge' from the EVDL to a 
>> more modern, attractive, glamourous web-based viewer...
>> But here's the problem. Nobody wants to do the work. They want to 
>> automate the above process, with some software package (that they 
>> didn't write, either). The software isn't smart enough to do any of 
>> the above things "right", so it winds up doing a half-assed job of it, 
>> creating more problems than it solves. It looks prettier, but works 
>> worse.

damon henry wrote:
> Ouch Lee, I was reading through your list and immediately my mind 
> started thinking of how to automate all the things you were listing off, 
> and then you totally shot me down...  You're probably right though, it 
> would be very difficult to come up with an intelligent enough system to 
> put it all together and certainly no one would take on the task of doing 
> all that work manually.
> 
> To my credit however, I was not thinking of using someone else's 
> software to do the job :-)

Ah, now if you could write your own software to do this (or at least to 
automate most of it and make the rest simpler for the moderator), then I 
think you could pull it off!

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Thanks, Lawrence. The vectrix seems like a very well-finished piece. I'd like to see some competition for it (as that's good for everyone), especially the more sporting model they've hinted at.

Lon Hull,
Portland, OR

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>; "SFEVA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "ETList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 10:44 AM
Subject: Vectrix, a first ride.


I showed up at British Motor Cars in San Francisco & meet Tansy Brook for a
quick demo of the Vectrix & its controls.  It has reverse which is also a
very controlable regen function.  To start you turn the key, put up the
kickstand, hold the left brake and tap the right brake.  It then says GO.
The main speedometer is in KPH with MPH in smaller lettering below.  The
bike feels light.  I took it out on the street up a hill and it had plenty
of power.  I cruised up Eddy or Ellis(can't remember which) & went down
Gough  I got tremendous regen but halfway down the hill it cut out.  I'm
assuming that regen on a full charge isn't reliable.  I grabbed the brakes
and bounced down the hill.  I weigh 242.  The bike never felt out of
control.  I'm sure the wheelie poppers will like this soft but controlable
suspension.  On the rest of my ride I hardly used the hand brakes at all.
I'm 6'2' with a 30 inch inseam.  The Vectrix handled great. I was just a
little cramped compared to the memories of my Honda Helix.  The foot rests
were just a little closer with a steeper angle than the Helix. I did get
used to it and felt comfortable after a while. Off the line the Helix might
be a little faster but at about 15 mph the Vectrix takes off like some of
the performance oriented EV's I've ridden in.  (Blue Meanie, Otmars
California Poppy Porsche & Deafscooters rocket rides come to mind) The 250cc Helix probably wouldn't be able to catch up for a while. The pack is NiMH &
had 48 miles registering when I left BMC.  After a ride in wet fog to
Taraval street going over twin peaks I then hit the freeway at Daly City
Blvd.  I dusted a BMW at the on ramp and sipped up to almost 65mph.  But
wait this vehicle has a capped speed of 62mph.  It seems to me an engineer
had something to do with this.  This is where the Honda Helix and other
250cc class scooters could catch up.  However the bike crused just fine at
this speed the four miles to my offramp. At home I opened the garage door,
parked the Vectrix & cleaned out the parking area.  The Vectrix is larger
than my Lepton & needed a little more room.  I popped the trunk which is
held up by a stiff spring.  Touch the spring and the trunk closes.  Very
cleaver & cost effective I'm sure. I gotta say WOW. This vehicle went 14.5
miles & registered 29 miles left.  This was up and down hills and zipping
around. I really didn't try to save any amp hours. I would never drive any of my electric vehicles like this. The 4.5 mile penalty for hills and fast
acceleration was very acceptable as most evs are designed to register flat
ground as the basis for range. Anyone who drives two wheel vehicles will be impressed with this bike. I just checked the pack after setting over night
& fully charged it registered 52 miles.  The Vectrix Corp. has done their
homework & produced a very acceptable ev.  There are few things I'd do
differently.  This vehicle is perfect for going across the Bay or Golden
Gate Bridges. As a commute vehicle it has everything you need for a safe &
fast ride into San Francisco.  .I replaced the energy I used in less than
two hours at 120vdc. .I'm sure a full charge can be had in 4 hours or
less(Vectrix claims 80% in two hours) which means with the NiMH batteries
you could be 40 to 50 miles from your work and safely recharge for the ride home. If you are looking for a fully finished vehicle the Vectrix is in the
same class with the EV-1, Honda EV Plus or the Lepton scooter.  A turnkey
solution to the end of commuting pollution.  Lawrence Rhodes....

Contact:
Tansy Brook
British Motor Car Distributors, LTD
901 Van Ness Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94109
(415) 351 - 5114
(415) 776-7700 Main number

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/450 This guy makes crazy fast scooters.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/293 Otmars fast Porsche.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/36 John Wayland's fit & finish exceeds the
factory and his creations are fast to boot.



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--- Begin Message --- "Les Goldman wants you to convert (your hybrid.) Easy as 123. So he proposed at the California Air Resources Board ZEV workshop on Tuesday...."

See the rest at http://www.plugsandcars.blogspot.com

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damon henry wrote: 

> Someone posted this link the other day and I had a look.  
> http://www.labjack.com/labjack_u3.php?prodId=25
> 
> I've looked at the product and the spec sheets and I believe 
> that it will work for what I want it to, but I thought I
> would double check before I get one.
> 
> Basically, I want to be able to monitor a series string of 
> NiCad cells during a discharge test.  I usually like to test
> them in quantities of about 10 or so at a time, and if I am
> reading the specs correctly I should be able to configure one
> I/O to monitor each cell voltage.  I think I would still 
> have another completely seperate channels left over which I 
> could configure to take a reading of the discharge current
> off a shunt.
> 
> I've never worked with a device like this however, so I'm not 
> sure I am reading everything correctly.
> 
> Does my plan look feasible?

Damon, it can work, but the detail you must take care of is that each
input must be within -0.3 to +3.6V from ground.  What this means is that
you cannot just connect ground to the most negative terminal in the
string and one analog input to the positive terminal of each cell in the
string. Instead, you need to use a voltage divider on each input to keep
the voltage within the allowed range.  This will cost you some
resolution, but with 12-bit ADC and only 10 cells you should still be
fine.

Figure that any one cell might get as high as 2V (unlikely, but 1.7V
isn't unbelievable and 2V is a nice round number), so the voltage at the
most positive cell could approach 20V relative to ground.  3.6V * 6 =
21.6V, so a 1:6 voltage divider on each input would keep the voltages
within range for the ADC.  You could use no divider on the first couple
inputs for the most negative cells, and gradually increasing divide
ratios for inputs on progrressively more positive cells, but it is (in
my opinion) safer and easier to condition all inputs similarly so that
you needn't worry about which input may be hooked to which cell
position, and can apply a single scale factor to all inputs to get the
true voltages.

You'll probably want to use something like a 50A 100mV shunt to keep the
current signal nice and large and may want to use a pair of inputs as a
differential input for better noise rejection.

Good luck,

Roger.

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--- Begin Message --- Marc, I don't think it must be tantalizing to the automakers since iirc they are free of the ZEV mandate so they have nothing to live up to.

Further, if Les Goldman wanted some action he could start selling their cells to EV converters at the same price they sell them for to DeWalt instead of punishing us by a factor 2 or 3. he might even offer those packs we saw Wayland use if that's a semi stock product.

put up a webshop with their products instead of hiding behind retarded old b2b practices and let the grass roots people and the speed freaks spread fear into the coal black hearts of big auto.

Dan


Marc Geller wrote:
"Les Goldman wants you to convert (your hybrid.) Easy as 123. So he proposed at the California Air Resources Board ZEV workshop on Tuesday...."

See the rest at http://www.plugsandcars.blogspot.com



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right on
if the leadership here said we're moving it would happen over night without any problems and they would no doubt like it a few are just afraid of change, even for the better. ironically much the same mentality that is the cause of the EV delay. and then the bulk here are afraid to voice an opinion either way. as if independent thought was a fatal disease.

this is not a case of having two fora, it's an upgrade.

Dan

Kip C. Anderson wrote:
As the former operator of a mailing list, all it took from me to transition it's users to a web based forum was putting it up and ecnouraging people to use it. Within weeks, list traffic dropped from 30-40 messages per day to 1-2 messages per day. That list is still in existance 7 years later, but I have not seen a single message go through it in the last 3. The php based forum that i started (and no longer manage) continues to go on strong today with nearly 3500 registered users. That should tell you something about what most people really prefer.

- Kip

----- Original Message ----- From: "BrownGassyTurd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: DIY Electric Car Forums


As it was recruitment for another souce of EV info,  I wouldn't have
considered it spam; and even though I did not receive an email invite,
I'm glad you guys made me aware of it.
I've heard attempts at  web based "EVDL replacements" (if you choose
to consider them that) have failed in the past, but don't see why they
can't co-exist and even complement each other.
The way some here speak of those new-fangled web based boards makes me
wonder if the EVDL's mission is being fulfilled to the fullest extent
possible.
The EVDL is currently like a secret handshake to new users. Just look
at the amount of people not "getting" the text only format and bugging
the hell out of the veterans.
I'm just glad that other forms of disseminating EV info exists.
YouTube videos of White Zombie to complement the stories here is an
awesome (cool, groovy, tight, sweet, [insert your generation's slang
for swell]) experience.
Here's hoping that Robert Green makes it, and/or that someone else
tries again if he doesn't succeed.

Still bummed I wasn't worthy of an invite though,
Manny



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Lee Hart wrote:
My EV is a Renault LeCar, with an ADC L91 6.7" motor and Curtis 1231C controller, turned down to 400 amps max. It is no drag racer, but is plenty peppy enough to keep up with traffic and do 70+ mph on the freeway. A 120v 400amp system is more than adequate for a small light car.
ok interesting. I have in passing pondered if a 6.7" or two would be more lean in some way than bigger. I had gotten the impression that curtis based cars faded out about freeway speeds because of the relatively low voltage. is the 6.7" less hungry in some way or do all 1231 small cars go 65mph+?
Seems like it; but it isn't. Things get exponentially more complicated, not linear. I.e. going from 500a to 1000a is more than twice the cost.
I know you are using exponentially loosely here but how do you mean it gets harder? matching transistors?


I noticed you agreed with me on a few issues contrary to a detractor. I hope that will save me from some of their balking. it has only limited appeal to be constantly and irrationally attacked so at any time you feel like agreeing with me please do so we can shed their wasteful efforts. not that truth is a democracy but it might be to them.

btw I feel for you regarding dial-up. noone should have to suffer that these days. should be part of the geneva convention under cruel and unusual punishment
I've heard CIA offers dial-up as an interogation technique

Dan

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