EV Digest 7078

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Ni-MH cells and Chevron
        by James Drysdale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Insurance
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Two EV vans on e-bay
        by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
        by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) The EV Album Keeps on Growin'
        by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Insurance
        by Jerry Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Battery for a Bicycle?
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: The EV Album Keeps on Growin'
        by James Drysdale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by Michael Kenefick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 12) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
        by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
        by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Ni-MH cells and Chevron
        by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: delurking
        by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
        by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Ni-MH cells and Chevron
        by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
G'day all.

First up, if you don't know me here, its because I don't yet have an EV
and don't really have much to add to the discussions that go on here.
Secondly,  I am not a troll, and am building my first EV, an electric
bicycle, and thankyou to those members that gave me assistance.

Some background.....
The battery capacity for my bicycle that I was originally aiming for was
40Ah. I thought Ni-MH would be a good solution as lead-acid would be
very heavy and as it was a relatively small battery, the cost of Ni-MH
cells would be okay.

What I found was that Ni-MH was more expensive that what I expected.
Even when I contacted an electronics wholesaler, on the recommendation
of one of their resellers, using 600 2Ah cells to obtain 36v and 40Ah
would cost $AU1800 ($US1540) That is for cells only.

There was another bicycle battery thread here which I responded too, I
think I gave different costings then, but this is what I have worked out
with my most recent data.

I have been researching more.
Chevron own the rights to Ni-MH technology?
Or just a certain method of manufacturing NiMH cells?

Apparently they sued Panasonic for $30 million over an EV-95 line of
Ni-MH cells....
http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm

So is it true that a large entity owns the patents for Ni-MH technology,
and as this entity has more to do with oil, "restricts" the availability
of Ni-MH cells?

FROM WEBSITE
http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm
"Chevron's unit that controls the patents, *cobasys, *refuses to sell
their version of the battery unless, they say, they get "a large OEM
order". Apparently, they also refuse to let anyone else sell it, either"

Is this why lead-acid is still the only viable technology? Even for a
crappy bicycle?
Is there some Chinese or Taiwanese manufacturer that builds Ni-MH cells
free of restraint from Chevron?
I did find a couple of companies supplying cells, my bookmarks were
deleted with a we browser update, so I don't have their addresses :-(
But their prices, although a little lower, were not enough to justify an
international order, particularly once shipping was added.

Is Nickel Metal Hydride cell technology restricted world-wide by a
company that has its stakes in oil????

Cheers,
James Drysdale.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is why I have Hartford insurance.  They paid everything, what it cost 
to replace.  They paid the full cost of replacing the side glass panel in 
the door which cost $600.00 just for the glass plus about $200.00 for 
installing.  A insurance adjuster did not even come out to look at it for a 
1977 El Camino.

Now here is the big one.  A large gravel truck going down a road with the 
gravel spilling out because it was pile to high, splashing gravel all over 
my EV which was park.  It splash the gravel over all the sides and top of 
the paint that was color sanded to 7000 grit compound.

They sent a adjusted out on this one, maybe because he wanted to see a EV. 
I call Hartford at 10.00 AM on a friday. The adjusted was at my house at 
1.00 PM.  His eye balls snap out his head when I under cover the EV which is 
park in a secure building.

He then had to visit the customizing body shop that did this work to 
finalize the estimate to bring the condition the EV to the condition it was 
before it was damage.

I had witnesses that saw which company did this and Hartford contacted them 
and there adjuster came out.  This guy was in a daze looking at the EV and 
left not saying much.

On Tuesday at 2.00 pm, I got a check from Hartford for repainting the whole 
car and bringing it to the same condition before it was damage, for $6890.00 
from Hartford.  I call Hartford, and they said, it just in case check if the 
other party would not paid as much.

The other party paid the full amount and I sent the check back to Hartford.

About six months later, I was park at a auto parts store, and a delivery 
truck back up too far and punch a hole in my passenger side door while the 
EV was park with its tow hitch which was sticking out and not folded in. 
The door, new locks, glass, and customize power locks switches, window 
operators, and inside panel was replace and replace and painted for 
$2800.00.

Again. the Hartford sent me a check and I had to sent it back to them.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: Insurance


> As a thought, you might want to contact a lawyer up front on that 
> "special"
> policy coverage. If you have it written up into your policy, you are
> probably covered if the accident it yours. BTW, when you contact the 
> lawyer,
> make sure he'll cover you in case of an accident.
>
> My policy covered the additions I made to my car. However, when a 17 year
> old slammed into the back of it (even knocking the springs from under its
> rear) I found I was the owner of a $2000 auto... despite having a rig 
> worth
> more than twice that amount. Progressive would not pay more than the car
> would sell for at "average"... which meant no custom work or improvements.
> Simply what a standard car would go for if it weren't updated. Oh, and
> lawyers weren't interested, unless it was a case of injury. Your policy 
> may
> cover it... but they don't pay if it's some else's fault.
>
> Make sure it's written into your policy, also. What your agent tells you 
> and
> what your policy covers is 2 different things altogether.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 5:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Insurance
>
>
> > Howdy Bart.
> >    I'm with Allstate.  They sell a "stated value
> > policy", so that if I get totaled, I get the $8,500
> > cost of my on-board charger, batteries, controller,
> > DCDC, etc., not the $3,000 a gas-burner Civic is
> > worth.
> > It merely requires that I have saved receipts and can
> > prove the value is correct.  I keep the same 50/100
> > coverage or whatever we currently have.  It costs me
> > the same or less than a regular policy.  You are wise
> > to ask.
> > peace,
>
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I got the Vans.... Will not be able to go down and pick them up until after Labor Day though (Burningman).

-Phil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Jackson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: "Ian Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 10:10 PM
Subject: RE: Two EV vans on e-bay



Wow, the vans sold for $3,700. What a screamin' deal for two vans worth of EV stuff.



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Hi folks,

I thought I should share this. As of this morning the EV Album is up to 1193 active entries and 6594 images. Since we went live with the new site May 9th 2006 we have had 3,898,876 page hits and now average around 300,000 per month or 10,000 per day. The traffic seems to be directly proportional to the price of gasoline.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who has shared their EV and to Aaron Choate for hosting us and Jerry Halstead for writing the magic code to make it work.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV Photo Album
http://evalbum.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland, thanks for the vote of confidence in Hartford insurance.  I have their 
home owners insurance and have had similar experience.  I have have not had a 
claim on my truck yet.

Jerry

-----Original Message-----
>From: Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 29, 2007 8:37 AM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: Insurance
>
>That is why I have Hartford insurance.  They paid everything, what it cost 
>to replace.  They paid the full cost of replacing the side glass panel in 
>the door which cost $600.00 just for the glass plus about $200.00 for 
>installing.  A insurance adjuster did not even come out to look at it for a 
>1977 El Camino.
>
>Now here is the big one.  A large gravel truck going down a road with the 
>gravel spilling out because it was pile to high, splashing gravel all over 
>my EV which was park.  It splash the gravel over all the sides and top of 
>the paint that was color sanded to 7000 grit compound.
>
>They sent a adjusted out on this one, maybe because he wanted to see a EV. 
>I call Hartford at 10.00 AM on a friday. The adjusted was at my house at 
>1.00 PM.  His eye balls snap out his head when I under cover the EV which is 
>park in a secure building.
>
>He then had to visit the customizing body shop that did this work to 
>finalize the estimate to bring the condition the EV to the condition it was 
>before it was damage.
>
>I had witnesses that saw which company did this and Hartford contacted them 
>and there adjuster came out.  This guy was in a daze looking at the EV and 
>left not saying much.
>
>On Tuesday at 2.00 pm, I got a check from Hartford for repainting the whole 
>car and bringing it to the same condition before it was damage, for $6890.00 
>from Hartford.  I call Hartford, and they said, it just in case check if the 
>other party would not paid as much.
>
>The other party paid the full amount and I sent the check back to Hartford.
>
>About six months later, I was park at a auto parts store, and a delivery 
>truck back up too far and punch a hole in my passenger side door while the 
>EV was park with its tow hitch which was sticking out and not folded in. 
>The door, new locks, glass, and customize power locks switches, window 
>operators, and inside panel was replace and replace and painted for 
>$2800.00.
>
>Again. the Hartford sent me a check and I had to sent it back to them.
>
>Roland
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 12:46 AM
>Subject: Re: Insurance
>
>
>> As a thought, you might want to contact a lawyer up front on that 
>> "special"
>> policy coverage. If you have it written up into your policy, you are
>> probably covered if the accident it yours. BTW, when you contact the 
>> lawyer,
>> make sure he'll cover you in case of an accident.
>>
>> My policy covered the additions I made to my car. However, when a 17 year
>> old slammed into the back of it (even knocking the springs from under its
>> rear) I found I was the owner of a $2000 auto... despite having a rig 
>> worth
>> more than twice that amount. Progressive would not pay more than the car
>> would sell for at "average"... which meant no custom work or improvements.
>> Simply what a standard car would go for if it weren't updated. Oh, and
>> lawyers weren't interested, unless it was a case of injury. Your policy 
>> may
>> cover it... but they don't pay if it's some else's fault.
>>
>> Make sure it's written into your policy, also. What your agent tells you 
>> and
>> what your policy covers is 2 different things altogether.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 5:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: Insurance
>>
>>
>> > Howdy Bart.
>> >    I'm with Allstate.  They sell a "stated value
>> > policy", so that if I get totaled, I get the $8,500
>> > cost of my on-board charger, batteries, controller,
>> > DCDC, etc., not the $3,000 a gas-burner Civic is
>> > worth.
>> > It merely requires that I have saved receipts and can
>> > prove the value is correct.  I keep the same 50/100
>> > coverage or whatever we currently have.  It costs me
>> > the same or less than a regular policy.  You are wise
>> > to ask.
>> > peace,
>>
>> 
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could you point me to the info for these cells. You have made these
claims for a few weeks now and I am very interested in finding the charts.
I also thought you said they had other sizes of cylindrical cells, I
can't find any of that info.

In fact, all I find on their site is information in conflict to what you
say.

http://www.phet.com.tw/Products/Cell_Spec01.aspx

When I look on their web site I see 1C(1.1A) and 4C(4.4A) and 200 cycle
at .2C (220ma)

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Agreed, top stuff mate! :-)

I can only browse this collection in envy, and know that one day my
beloved ute will be added.
And that bicycle I'm building (actually recumbent trike, but bicycle all
the same...)

Talk about a site to debunk the "inferiority" of EVs.

Its an inspiration if you ask me.

Cheers,
James Drysdale.



Mike Chancey wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I thought I should share this.  As of this morning the EV Album is up
> to 1193 active entries and 6594 images.  Since we went live with the
> new site May 9th 2006 we have had 3,898,876 page hits and now average
> around 300,000 per month or 10,000 per day.  The traffic seems to be
> directly proportional to the price of gasoline.
>
> Anyway, thanks again to everyone who has shared their EV and to Aaron
> Choate for hosting us and Jerry Halstead for writing the magic code to
> make it work.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey
> Webmaster
> EV Photo Album
> http://evalbum.com 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree 100% with david.


BTW what is this sudden rush of people whose client replies with the
email address in the body instead of the tried and true

---name wrote

This is spambot food and should be disabled if possible. You know who
you are, Let me know off list what client you use and and I will
research how to turn it off.

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*       Lists at  sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT         *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod,

As I said the 12.08 was on our final run. The two runs of 12.15 @ 103 mph immediately preceeded. I'm beginning to see why Mr Berubi loves going hunting with the CE4. This bike is incredibly consistent. It doesn't spin on a good track, there is no front end lift, and the rest is battery temp and voltage. I pushed the battery temp up before the last run and it hit just about where I thought. Ironic that if we would have made it to the 11's the record would have been more than 1% faster than the 12.15 and wouldn't have counted. As it is the 12.08 leaves a good jumping off point to go to 240 volts.

So I ran some numbers through the Speedworld calculator:


At 168 volts as on Saturday
AGNS has a GVW with rider of about 550 lb.
Best ET was 12.08
Amount of batteries was 14 pcs
Calculated wheel HP = 62 / 14 batteries = 4.4 wheel hp per battery

At 240 volts
AGNS will have a GVW of about 622 lbs.
Amount of batteries will be 20 pcs
Calculated wheel HP = 20 x 4.4 = 88 wheel hp
Back through the calculator and we get......
11.20 ET

Of course this assumes many things including traction, etc... BUT
the gearing at 240 volts is going to give the motors much more headroom at the end of the strip. In others words they will be pulling all the way down the track instead of half way. AGNS ran the 1/8 at over 90 mph yesterday and just cruised the rest of the way to 103 in the 1/4. On OJ we are getting over 5 HP per battery to the track. Although the custom LMC motors are more efficient than the Perms on AGNS, I still think we can get 4.8 HP to the ground on AGNS when the gearing is right.

So one more time through the calculator:
Calcualted wheel HP = 20 x 4.8 = 96  wheel hp
Estimated ET = 10.85 secs @  125 MPH.


Now that would be pretty fast on a minibike.

Shawn




-----Original Message-----
From: Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 1:51 am
Subject: Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6


Shawn, much congratulations on your new record! I would just like to add one comment. In your enthusiasm you wrote: "The 12.08 was backed up with two runs of 12.15 @ 103 MPH. Next stop 240 volts !!! We may just skip the 11's and head straight for the 10's. Probably not but it sure sounds good."   Just so the newbees on the list know, in our daily life a second may seem like a very short time but on a drag strip it is an eternity. The difference between 11 second ETs and 10 second ETs is the difference between being twenty years old and being sixty. That analogy may give some of you a clue :-)\ 
 
Roderick 
 
  Roderick Wilde 
  Vintage Golf Cart Parts 
Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other mature carts 
  www.vintagegolfcartparts.com 
  E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Phone: 360-385-4868 
  P.O. Box 221 
  Port Townsend, WA 98368 
 
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> 
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 4:38 PM 
Subject: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6 
 
The weather was touch and go at Quaker City Raceway in Salem, OH
today but > the sun finally won out as Denis Stanislaw and AGNS captured NEDRA record > # 6 in the MT-D class. We set up with 14 DEKA's (168 volts) and set our > sites on the 12.49 record set back in 2004. We left the track with a best > run of 12.08 @ 102.91 in the semi final round of eliminations. We had > dialed a 12.07 and beat one of the regulars at the the track and for a > brief moment we thought Denis had made it all the way to the finals. > Unfortunately he was disqualified after the run for going past the stage > lights during his burnout. sounds good.The 12.08 was backed up with two > runs of 12.15 @ 103 MPH. Next stop 240 volts !!! We may just skip the 11's > and head straight for the 10's. Probably not but it sure 
 
Shawn Lawless 

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey John, Rod

First off, I've only been at this just two short years
and know you two have at least 10 times that on me. 
Having "not" been there all those years, I can only
imagine (and read about) what it took to make what is
happening "now" come to fruit.  I'd also imagine that
anything hinting at negativity is disappointing and
frustrating 8^(

Honestly though I didn't read this article as being as
bad as you two felt it was.  It didn't "phase" me at
all that they wrote that ICE's are still much faster
than electrics!  I mean come on, most people haven't
EVen got a clue Electric cars exist let alone race! 
Being able to knock the snot out of a V06 Corvette
isn't a small feat and EVen your average smuck knows
that 8^) 

I guess I try to focus on the positive vs the negitive
in EVery aspect of my life and stuff like this falls
very much into that ideal.  In as much as John was
able to pick out parts he felt were detrimental to the
cause I'd like to snip some that I felt were more
positive 8^)

Pollacheck crosses the quarter-mile marker doing 156
m.p.h. (251 km/h); he's
travelled 402 metres in 8.22 seconds, faster than any
of the gas-powered
cars, trucks or motorcycles that have raced in the
drag sprints on this
weekend at Portland International Raceway.

Electric vehicles are making their presence felt at
amateur drag races
across the United States, challenging gas-powered cars
and motorcycles. The
"amp heads," computer geeks and tree-hugging
environmentalists driving the
electron-powered vehicles are starting to kick some
major rear end.
  
(Starting to kick some major rear end is IMO a pretty
positive statement!)

Pollacheck and his bike - dubbed the KillaCycle - are
part of a growing
movement that's exploiting breakthroughs in battery
technology and could
soon challenge the world's fastest-accelerating
vehicles in the $1-billion
drag-racing industry.

(here it is... "us" no budget hacks vs a billion
dollar industry!  Would anyone but a moron expect us
to be on top right now?!)

But electric vehicle racers say people like Light are
out of the loop. They
say rapid advances in battery technology will give EVs
a shot at drag-racing
records.

(Here the author states a gas racers opinion, but also
counters it with how an EV guys sees the future!) 
(I'm sorry but I see that as him doing his homework
and offering up both sides of the coin so to speak, he
is simply writing what both sides have to say) 

"This is a disruptive technology and there is a lot of
room for improvement
in this area," said Ric Fulop, founder and vice
president of business
development for A123, the maker of KillaCycle's
batteries.  In December, the KillaCycle will receive a
second-generation battery pack
that will have twice as much juice as its current
374-volt system, giving it
close to 1,000 horsepower. Fulop said he believes the
KillaCycle can break
the drag racing motorcycle record within the next
year.

(again he puts in that we're just getting started!)

Anyway, bottom line is we aren't as fast as the ICE's
yet.  That (to me) isn't very negitive at all, it's
common knowlege.  I just had to chime in as it seems
you didn't pay any attention to things that I felt
were positive and wanted to choose a few things you
didn't paste 8^P

I guess it's all in how you see things 8^)

Just my two positive pennies worth 8^o
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric



       
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--- Begin Message ---
John,
This guy has never built a thing let alone a race car.
 He is one of those reporters who state "the Facts"
with out understanding them.  forget him and just keep
up the good work. You have done more to publicize that
electric vehicles can be fast than anyone.
kEVs
--- FRED JEANETTE MERTENS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> john call up the writer and ask for a chance to
> rebut his neg remarks in an op ed piece . maybe his
> editor will give you a shot if you can ( I believe
> you can ) show the inconsistencies and the unfair
> comparisons . 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: John Wayland<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>   To:
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> 
>   Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 10:32 PM
>   Subject: Re: With barely a sound, electric
> dragsters aim for gas-powered records
> 
> 
>   Hello to All,
> 
>   Well, two articles out in the same day...one 'OK'
> one (Portland Tribune) 
>   and this one (AP), a stinker in my opinion. The
> entire tone of Aaron 
>   Clark's article is quite negative and seems to
> focus on electrics not 
>   measuring up:
> 
>    >...they still have a ways to go before matching
> professional world 
>   record times. The fastest >quarter-mile time by an
> electric vehicle is 
>   the KillaCycle's 8.16 seconds - that's 2.36
> seconds off the 
>    >nitromethane world record for drag bikes
> 
>   Geesh! The A123 lithium batteries are still in
> their infancy, there's no 
>   big name sponsor 'money', the bike is a
> backyard-built affair, it's 
>   still being tweaked and developed, and yet, within
> a year of its build 
>   it's knocking on nitromethane's door? - and this
> still isn't good enough 
>   to impress?
> 
>   Here's one that really got to me:
> 
>    >.....electric vehicles have even more catching
> up to do. White 
>   Zombie's best time in a quarter-mile is >11.46
> seconds - still 6.4 
>   seconds away from the Top Fuel record.
> 
>   Who in their right mind, compares a street legal
> import sedan that is 
>   driven to and from the track (not trailered), to
> and from the grocery 
>   store, to and from car shows ... and runs low 11s,
> to a full blown top 
>   fuel funny car? I don't know about everybody else,
> but it's been a while 
>   since I saw my neighbor drive his top fuel funny
> car dragster to Safeway 
>   :-) I could see this statement having merit if
> White Zombie's mission 
>   was to beat a top fuel pure racing machine (a
> thinking person would use 
>   a similar funny car chassis and not a 35 year old
> economy sedan), but 
>   come on...it's a small economy car! Most people
> think a fully street 
>   legal electric car turning 11s is notable. Oh well
> :-(
> 
>   On the other hand, maybe I should be happy that my
> little 'ol electric 
>   Datsun is actually being mentioned in the same
> sentence as a top fuel 
>   funny car dragster and that he 'did say' that a
> street legal EV can beat 
>   a Z06 Vette :-)
> 
>   More negativity from Aaron:
> 
>    >Not everyone in the gas-powered crowd is
> convinced electric vehicles 
>   are the next big thing.
> 
>   And here's more negativity he found to include in
> his story :
> 
>    >“I certainly don't see them challenging for
> professional records in 
>   the near future,” said Graham >Light, at the NHRA.
> “at this point I 
>   don't see a strong movement toward electric cars.”
> 
>   Mark this down as a quote....Mr. Grahm will
> someday eat his words.
> 
>   Yeah, after all the time I spent talking with
> Aaron both on the phone 
>   and in person, I am VERY disappointed in his
> story. What's really bad, 
>   is that this is an AP story, so it's been
> distributed around the world!
> 
>   This one stings. Oh well, I guess we need to stay
> thick-skinned and take 
>   the good with the bad!
>   I am now looking ahead to John Fialka's Wall
> Street Journal story, one I 
>   am absolutely certain will be upbeat.
> 
>   See Ya.....John Wayland
> 
> 
> 
> 



       
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I believe it's "just a certain method of manufacturing NiMH cells." Using 600 2Ah cells will give you lots of trouble. Better to use 10Ah or 13Ah http://www.rabbittool.com/frames/NiMH2.html These guys have the largest cylindrical NiMH cell I've seen -- 20Ah. NiMH still doesn't parallel too well though. I could suggest a 72v Crystalyte hub motor system and you won't have to parallel NiMH cells.

How about Li-Ion? Thundersky has a 40Ah LFP battery! http://www.thunder-sky.com/pdf/200725164258.pdf These are relatively cheap. 18650 li-ion cells could work too.

Keep in mind a 40Ah NiMH/Li-Ion battery will actually deliver close to 40Ah at fast discharge rates and a 40Ah Lead-acid will deliver perhaps 30.






----- Original Message ----- From: "James Drysdale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 8:07 AM
Subject: Ni-MH cells and Chevron


G'day all.

First up, if you don't know me here, its because I don't yet have an EV
and don't really have much to add to the discussions that go on here.
Secondly,  I am not a troll, and am building my first EV, an electric
bicycle, and thankyou to those members that gave me assistance.

Some background.....
The battery capacity for my bicycle that I was originally aiming for was
40Ah. I thought Ni-MH would be a good solution as lead-acid would be
very heavy and as it was a relatively small battery, the cost of Ni-MH
cells would be okay.

What I found was that Ni-MH was more expensive that what I expected.
Even when I contacted an electronics wholesaler, on the recommendation
of one of their resellers, using 600 2Ah cells to obtain 36v and 40Ah
would cost $AU1800 ($US1540) That is for cells only.

There was another bicycle battery thread here which I responded too, I
think I gave different costings then, but this is what I have worked out
with my most recent data.

I have been researching more.
Chevron own the rights to Ni-MH technology?
Or just a certain method of manufacturing NiMH cells?

Apparently they sued Panasonic for $30 million over an EV-95 line of
Ni-MH cells....
http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm

So is it true that a large entity owns the patents for Ni-MH technology,
and as this entity has more to do with oil, "restricts" the availability
of Ni-MH cells?

FROM WEBSITE
http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm
"Chevron's unit that controls the patents, *cobasys, *refuses to sell
their version of the battery unless, they say, they get "a large OEM
order". Apparently, they also refuse to let anyone else sell it, either"

Is this why lead-acid is still the only viable technology? Even for a
crappy bicycle?
Is there some Chinese or Taiwanese manufacturer that builds Ni-MH cells
free of restraint from Chevron?
I did find a couple of companies supplying cells, my bookmarks were
deleted with a we browser update, so I don't have their addresses :-(
But their prices, although a little lower, were not enough to justify an
international order, particularly once shipping was added.

Is Nickel Metal Hydride cell technology restricted world-wide by a
company that has its stakes in oil????

Cheers,
James Drysdale.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I'd like to introduce myself to the list.
> 
> I myself would very much like to convert my 1971 SAAB 96 when I move back
> from Los Angeles to the Boston area in a year or two. 

Welcome to the list mos6507. When you move back east, you won't be alone. If 
you move closer to
Wooster than Boston, you'll find a number of EAA members who can help with the 
conversion. And
there are a few of us in Connecticut too. There is another Saab owner on the 
list who has been
converting recently, but I don't remember where he is in the process. Don't be 
a stranger. You can
probably find most answers to your questions in the EVDL archives.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Dave Cover in CT

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Shawn,
Sounds great to me.
What kind of batteries? What kind of wheels/tires?
keith

 So one more time through the calculator:
> Calcualted wheel HP = 20 x 4.8 = 96  wheel hp
> Estimated ET = 10.85 secs @  125 MPH.
> 
> 
> Now that would be pretty fast on a minibike.
> 
> Shawn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 1:51 am
> Subject: Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
> 
> 
> Shawn, much congratulations on your new record! I
> would just like to 
> add one comment. In your enthusiasm you wrote: "The
> 12.08 was backed up 
> with two runs of 12.15 @ 103 MPH. Next stop 240
> volts !!! We may just 
> skip the 11's and head straight for the 10's.
> Probably not but it sure 
> sounds good." 
>  Just so the newbees on the list know, in our daily
> life a second may 
> seem like a very short time but on a drag strip it
> is an eternity. The 
> difference between 11 second ETs and 10 second ETs
> is the difference 
> between being twenty years old and being sixty. That
> analogy may give 
> some of you a clue :-)\ 
>  
> Roderick 
>  
>   Roderick Wilde 
>   Vintage Golf Cart Parts 
> Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other
> mature carts 
>   www.vintagegolfcartparts.com 
>   E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Phone: 360-385-4868 
>   P.O. Box 221 
>   Port Townsend, WA 98368 
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- From:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> 
> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 4:38 PM 
> Subject: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6 
>  
> > The weather was touch and go at Quaker City
> Raceway in Salem, OH 
> today but > the sun finally won out as Denis
> Stanislaw and AGNS 
> captured NEDRA record > # 6 in the MT-D class. We
> set up with 14 DEKA's 
> (168 volts) and set our > sites on the 12.49 record
> set back in 2004. 
> We left the track with a best > run of 12.08 @
> 102.91 in the semi final 
> round of eliminations. We had > dialed a 12.07 and
> beat one of the 
> regulars at the the track and for a > brief moment
> we thought Denis had 
> made it all the way to the finals. > Unfortunately
> he was disqualified 
> after the run for going past the stage > lights
> during his burnout. 
> sounds good.The 12.08 was backed up with two > runs
> of 12.15 @ 103 MPH. 
> Next stop 240 volts !!! We may just skip the 11's >
> and head straight 
> for the 10's. Probably not but it sure 
> > 
> > Shawn Lawless 
> > 
>
________________________________________________________________________ 
> 
> > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
> more about what's 
> free > from AOL at AOL.com. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. 
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 /
> Virus Database: > 
> 269.10.22/923 - Release Date: 7/27/2007 6:01 PM 
> > 
> >  
> 
> 
>
________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out
> more about what's free 
> from AOL at AOL.com.
> =0
> 
> 



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
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to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Some background.....
> The battery capacity for my bicycle that I was originally aiming for was
> 40Ah. I thought Ni-MH would be a good solution as lead-acid would be
> very heavy and as it was a relatively small battery, the cost of Ni-MH
> cells would be okay.

That is a HUGE pack for a bicycle.  What are you planning for 100+ mile
range?

> I have been researching more.
> Chevron own the rights to Ni-MH technology?

As I understand it, the basic technology.

> Apparently they sued Panasonic for $30 million over an EV-95 line of
> Ni-MH cells....
> http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm
>
> So is it true that a large entity owns the patents for Ni-MH technology,
> and as this entity has more to do with oil, "restricts" the availability
> of Ni-MH cells?

Yes, their licensing agreement specifically prohibits batteries large
enough for EVs, this is why they sued Panasonic, and won.

> Is this why lead-acid is still the only viable technology? Even for a
> crappy bicycle?

Well, there is always LiIon/LiPol batteries.

> Is there some Chinese or Taiwanese manufacturer that builds Ni-MH cells
> free of restraint from Chevron?

Legally?  No.  But then the chinese tend to ignore trivial little things
like international patent/copywrite laws.


> Is Nickel Metal Hydride cell technology restricted world-wide by a
> company that has its stakes in oil????

Only for a few more years, until the patent runs out.


-- 
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.

--- End Message ---

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