EV Digest 7097

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Inspection Woes
        by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Another Tweety grin...
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  4) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by Greg Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Soon to be Pinto Grin (was  RE: Another Tweety grin...)
        by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: John Wayland in Wall Street Journal
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10) Re: Another Tweety grin...
        by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Could higher pack voltage be stepped down for Curtis input?
        by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Could higher pack voltage be stepped down for Curtis input?
        by David Wilker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by David Wilker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) MPG  Equivalent ?
        by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Inspection Woes describing horsepower
        by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Another Tweety grin...
        by =?windows-1252?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: MPG  Equivalent ?
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: Soon to be Pinto Grin (was  RE: Another Tweety grin...)
        by "Freddie Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Could higher pack voltage be stepped down for Curtis input?
        by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) more on the road
        by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
        by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Did you check the state statutes before you built it??

Is it in compliance?

For example, in NY a motorcyle seat has to be at least xx inches above the 
road, and the handlebars cannot be more than xx inches over the seat. Horn, 
lights, etc. Little things like that could be showstoppers.

I've seen some OCC bikes on the show that probably should not have received a 
NYS VIN approval. So get it VIN'd somewhere else I s'pose.
 

--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Eidson
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 1:40 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Inspection Woes
> 
> So I take my bike
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231
> down to the local ADOT Level II inspection station to get a VIN number
> and title........the first guy looked really concerned and asked how
> many
> cc's.  I explained that it was a 13 HP electric motor.  He said that
> that was not enough for highway use.  I explained that it would go
> over 65 MPH.  He said I don't think we can do this and went to get his
> sargent, who came out with a camera and took a bunch of pictures and
> said that they could not inspect it and would send the pictures
> "upstairs" for review.  They would get back to me in 2-3 weeks.  Since
> this bike was built from scratch and does not have a VIN number what
> do you think my chances are for getting a title?  me

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm... I don't actually know what the IM stands for, but the test that AZ cars 
have to pass is called the IM240. Actually, I think that the IM240 has been 
replaced by the next generation IM test. Maybe it's called the IM240.1 :P 
Anyway, the test is one where the car goes on a dynomometer and has to 
accelerate, climb simulated hills, decelerate, maintain speed etc. It is 
supposed to simulate real world driving conditions. 

Brian


---- Greg Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

=============
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> I don't know if Arizona (I found that out from your EVAlbum page ;-)
>  has an IM program. My IM coordinator who is the point man in our
> state for keeping the air clean from automobiles was more than happy
> to walk me through the process.

Two quick questions:

What does IM stand for in this context?

Has anyone on-list registered a homebuilt/conversion in Massachusetts
and would they be willing to contact me off-list about what it involved?
 I'm trying to figure out the hoops before I start building.

Thx!

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---



"But honest officer, this thing is only battery powered, I couldn't possibly have layed those 100 ft twin black stripes. It must have been that Red 5.0
liter Mustang that was next to me at the light. :-O"

Do you think that would work for a Pinto? I mean no one in their right mind
would ever suspect.....a Pinto?
<<<<<<<<

Unless the tires were still smoking.  :)




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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One more thing, if you live in Phoenix, and you are going to try to get 
registration for something weird like a 400cc MC that has been converted to 
electric [or a Mazda Rx4 :-O ] and you plan on going through the normal 
emissions rigamaroll, here is what you do. Go to any emissions test station. 
Then when they give you crap and fail you because they don't know what they're 
doing, go down to the waiver station on 40th street south of the 202. Those 
guys will know what they're doing and they will either pass you, or they will 
tell you where to go (so to speak :-) ) This is what I have to do with my Rx4 
every year. Only, I add alcohol to the tank first. haha

Brian

 
---- Greg Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

=============
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> I don't know if Arizona (I found that out from your EVAlbum page ;-)
>  has an IM program. My IM coordinator who is the point man in our
> state for keeping the air clean from automobiles was more than happy
> to walk me through the process.

Two quick questions:

What does IM stand for in this context?

Has anyone on-list registered a homebuilt/conversion in Massachusetts
and would they be willing to contact me off-list about what it involved?
 I'm trying to figure out the hoops before I start building.

Thx!

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am referring to to State Vehicle "Inspection and Maintenance" programs.  
Usually it is for the purpose of maintaining functioning air quality control 
systems of vehicles.  Some places also refer to them as Emission Tests.

For example outrstate lets auto shops perform the "I/M" inspection which is the 
visual and the exhaust emissions sample testing.  
http://www.state.ak.us/dmv/reg/vendors.htm  Usually a state "Air Quality 
Coordinator" or somesuch will be in charge of this program.

Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 11:40 am
Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu

> MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> > I don't know if Arizona (I found that out from your EVAlbum page 
> ;-)
> >  has an IM program. My IM coordinator who is the point man in our
> > state for keeping the air clean from automobiles was more than happy
> > to walk me through the process.
> 
> Two quick questions:
> 
> What does IM stand for in this context?
> 
> Has anyone on-list registered a homebuilt/conversion in Massachusetts
> and would they be willing to contact me off-list about what it 
> involved? I'm trying to figure out the hoops before I start building.
> 
> Thx!
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian Jackson wrote:
> Hmmm... I don't actually know what the IM stands for, but the test 
> that AZ cars have to pass is called the IM240.

Ah.  Google to the rescue: Inspection and Maintenance, with a 240-second
treadmill test.

http://www.aircarecolorado.com/im240tst.htm

Looks like this is a standard some states use.  I still remember my
shock when moving from CT (which ha(s|d) limited treadmill testing) to
MA (where the "emissions test" is administered by your local garage, and
generally provides a way for mechanics to drum up business ("Oooh, hey,
your front end is a little loose there.  But we can fix that for you..."))

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sad, but true.  Makes me feel old now ;-)  But seriously, in making phone calls 
to look for parts, and when I had to rent the tow dolly to bring the donor 
home, and just recently talking to the battery reps, when asked "make and 
model"  I say " '78 Pinto" .  On several occasions I have received immediate 
chuckles instantly when I say that.  There is some memory floating around of 
this ex- flame ball :-)  We'll see what people remember about it now after it 
kicks their ass at the track :-)

Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.

>Tim Humphrey  wrote:
> 
> That might work. But, keep in mind there a probably quite a few 
> cops on the force today that have never seen and don't know what 
> the hell a Pinto is; or what a slow piece of crap it was before you 
> modified it.
> 
> 
> 


> > Mike Willmon wrote:
> > 
> > "But honest officer, this thing is only battery powered,  I couldn't
> > possibly have layed those 100 ft twin black stripes.  It must 
> have been
> > that Red 5.0 liter Mustang that was next to me at the light. :-O"
> > 
> > Do you think that would work for a Pinto?  I mean no one in their 
> right> mind would ever suspect.....a Pinto?

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thats exactly it...My state even gives you the directory to those shops.  Now 
we know who pays the protection money to the state :-O

http://www.state.ak.us/dmv/reg/vendors.htm

> Greg Owen wrote:
....<snip a bit>
> generally provides a way for mechanics to drum up business ("Oooh, 
> hey,your front end is a little loose there.  But we can fix that 
> for you..."))
> 
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And here is the complete story!

Enjoy!  :)

http://www.evdl.org/docs/plasmaboy.pdf

Ken



-----Original Message-----
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: John Wayland in Wall Street Journal


Great article! 
I didn't that was why they called you plasma boy. 
Good story! 
 
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 9:48 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 8/1/2007 6:23:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
xxxxxx 
They even drew a "stipled effect" portrait of John. That makes it an 
official WJ article. Great mug shot. 
_http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118593442187584293.html_ 
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118593442187584293.html) 
-------- 
Plasma Boy, great story in the Wall Street Journal, you're 47? you're 
catching up to me. 
 
Keep kicking ice butt. 
 
Jim...............still second quickest lead acid EV in the world. 
 
 
 
 
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the
all-new > AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour 
 
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. 
 
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. 
 


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=0

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My luck I'd get the " Didn't I see you at the track last weekend?"

The bright orange colored Pinto would be hard to forget, doh!
I better keep it tame on the street lest I be accosted by every cop in town.

----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: Another Tweety grin...
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu

> 
> 
> >>>>>>>>>
> "But honest officer, this thing is only battery powered,  I 
> couldn't 
> possibly
> have layed those 100 ft twin black stripes.  It must have been that 
> Red 
> 5.0
> liter Mustang that was next to me at the light. :-O"
> 
> Do you think that would work for a Pinto?  I mean no one in their 
> right 
> mind
> would ever suspect.....a Pinto?
> <<<<<<<<
> 
> Unless the tires were still smoking.  :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's 
> free 
> from AOL at AOL.com.
> 
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Maybe Jim Husted would measure the displacement of a
> motor armature the size of your's and you could
> validly say that the little moving part that goes
> around inside displaces xxx  CC's ;-)

Hey Mike

That's funny!

Although I'm not sure how funny the ceace and desist
order from some nasty sounding government office would
be 8^o
Nor would it be fun to find myself having to write an
800 page document varifying my methods and
qualifications 8^P
Furthermore I'm doubting a quick "Gee officers I'm
just a small electric motor shop" being an option here
8^)

I love helping you guys out but I'm going to have to
let you guys fight this battle.  I do have a few extra
Spartan spears lying around the shop if someone is
needing to barrow one though ;^)

Besides, I'm going to be busy enough here informing
the public that forklifts don't use Siamese 8 motors,
LMAO!

Had fun
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric


       
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready
 for the edge of your seat? 
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
http://tv.yahoo.com/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:29 PM 8/1/2007, you wrote:

Adding D2 looks like a good move. It should work if you get the details right. You could indeed eliminate S1 in this case, if you didn't mind D2 carrying the full motor current at all times.

You still don't want to have the controller going at full power when you close S2. When S2 closes, motor current may not ramp down during the controller's off time; it will continue to flow through the 36v pack, the motor, D1, and S2. Nothing limits this current, so it could rise to ruinous levels. If the motor is at low RPM, the current would be high enough to exceed the controller diode's ratings. If the controller turns back on, the MOSFETs could also die from this excessive current.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

So now we need a circuit the will only allow S2 to close or remain closed when the motor current is low enough, and the controler is not too hot, and etc..

This is the point at which it gets cheaper to buy the right speed control because learning when it is safe to have S2 closed is going to burn up a few of the cheaper controls unless you are real lucky.
__________
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But why not??  What if they need to move super heavy loads, or get around their 
warehouse faster.  
Maybe they'll be asking you to cludge in a Ford 9" into their favorite 
warehouse lifter.....

too funny....

> Jim Husted wrote:
> <snip a bit>
> Besides, I'm going to be busy enough here informing
> the public that forklifts don't use Siamese 8 motors,
> LMAO!

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about adding an inductor to ramp down current when S1 opens?


David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)

---- Andre' Blanchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
At 12:29 PM 8/1/2007, you wrote:

>Adding D2 looks like a good move. It should work if you get the details 
>right. You could indeed eliminate S1 in this case, if you didn't mind D2 
>carrying the full motor current at all times.
>
>You still don't want to have the controller going at full power when you 
>close S2. When S2 closes, motor current may not ramp down during the 
>controller's off time; it will continue to flow through the 36v pack, the 
>motor, D1, and S2. Nothing limits this current, so it could rise to 
>ruinous levels. If the motor is at low RPM, the current would be high 
>enough to exceed the controller diode's ratings. If the controller turns 
>back on, the MOSFETs could also die from this excessive current.
>
>--
>Ring the bells that still can ring
>Forget the perfect offering
>There is a crack in everything
>That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
>--
>Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

So now we need a circuit the will only allow S2 to close or remain closed 
when the motor current is low enough, and the controler is not too hot, and 
etc..

This is the point at which it gets cheaper to buy the right speed control 
because learning when it is safe to have S2 closed is going to burn up a 
few of the cheaper controls unless you are real lucky.
__________
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In California, there are rules about motorcycles and motor-driven bikes using 
the freeways. I think they use horsepower as the deciding factor.


David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)

---- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Maybe Jim Husted would measure the displacement of a motor armature the size of 
your's and you could validly say that the little moving part that goes around 
inside displaces xxx  CC's ;-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 11:28 am
Subject: RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu

> You might prefer to say something like 'It's electric, but It's 
> equivalent to a xx cc gas motor.'

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dewey, Jody wrote:

> BUT, if the tire is shorter, the circumference is less, which 
> means the tire patch IS smaller (length).  Two 215 tires will
> have the same width patch, but with different aspect ratios
> their contact patch is different.  Granted, it will not be
> much, but it IS longer on a higher aspect ratio tire. 

No; if both tires are supporting the same load and are inflated to the
same pressure, then the size (area) of the contact patch will be:

Contact patch area in sq. inches = load (lbs) / pressure (PSI)

What may differ is the shape of the patch; I expect the patches will
both be oval-shaped but they will probably differ somewhat.

Easy enough to check the patch size and shape: just wet the tread with
paint or similar and lower it onto a clean sheet of paper, then jack it
back up and remove the paper to dry.  If we note the weight on the tire
and the pressure we might be able to compare results collected by
different people.  Might even be able to measure the patch shape/size
for various pressures just to see how it changes as pressure is varied.

Much more difficult to figure out what effect the shape (or size) of the
contact patch has on the rolling resistance... ;^>  At speed, I can
imagine that the shape of the patch affects "pumping losses" as the air
between the contact patch and the road must be squeezed out as the tire
rolls, and perhaps a longer 'pointier' oval patch moves the air out of
the way with less drag?

Cheers,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I use the formula someone suggested earlier it has a 72V x 1000A x
1.341 = 96.5HP.  I guess that will be enough for highway use........

On 8/1/07, David Wilker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In California, there are rules about motorcycles and motor-driven bikes using 
> the freeways. I think they use horsepower as the deciding factor.
>
>
> David C. Wilker Jr.
> USAF (RET)
>
> ---- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe Jim Husted would measure the displacement of a motor armature the size 
> of your's and you could validly say that the little moving part that goes 
> around inside displaces xxx  CC's ;-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 11:28 am
> Subject: RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> > You might prefer to say something like 'It's electric, but It's
> > equivalent to a xx cc gas motor.'
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could tell them, it a one cylinder motor, with a displacement of the 
inside diameter divided by 2 and square times 3.14 times the stroke.  The 
stroke being one turn of the armature.

For my 11.5 inch GE motor that has a 10 inch ID by 18 inch stroke is 
calculated by:

                   Pi x radius square times the length or

                  3.14 x 5 x 5 x 18 = 1413 cu.ins.


Or you could take just the volume of the inside of the motor which would be 
for me is:

                   3.14 x 5 x 5 x 16 inch long = 1256 cu.ins.

Now lets say you have 400 volts of batteries that can deliver 2000 amps 
through a 2000 amp controller, now the hp would be:

                   (400 x 2000)/746 = 1072 HP

A motor half the size with a battery pack of 1/2 the power might get you 
over 500 hp.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes


>
> --- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Maybe Jim Husted would measure the displacement of a
> > motor armature the size of your's and you could
> > validly say that the little moving part that goes
> > around inside displaces xxx  CC's ;-)
>
> Hey Mike
>
> That's funny!
>
> Although I'm not sure how funny the ceace and desist
> order from some nasty sounding government office would
> be 8^o
> Nor would it be fun to find myself having to write an
> 800 page document varifying my methods and
> qualifications 8^P
> Furthermore I'm doubting a quick "Gee officers I'm
> just a small electric motor shop" being an option here
> 8^)
>
> I love helping you guys out but I'm going to have to
> let you guys fight this battle.  I do have a few extra
> Spartan spears lying around the shop if someone is
> needing to barrow one though ;^)
>
> Besides, I'm going to be busy enough here informing
> the public that forklifts don't use Siamese 8 motors,
> LMAO!
>
> Had fun
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready
>  
> for the edge of your seat?
> Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
> http://tv.yahoo.com/
>
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
  I don't know the formula for figuring my mpg
equivalent for my conversion.
 My nominal pack voltage is 156volts and I'm drawing
right around 90amps on level ground at 60mph(234
wh/mi). Electricity costs me 11.5 cents per kilowatt.
If you could share the formula so I can save it for
future testing this would really help.
Thanks,
Jeff McCabe

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 It is important to describe electric motors in terms the uninitiated
can understand.  One horsepower is defined as 746 Watts, so with Mark's
bike at 72V and 1000 Amp zilla, max horsepower would be an instantaneous
horsepower of 96.5.  Of course we all know that the voltage will sag a
bit at 1000A, but even at 60V and 800A you are looking at 64 hp, more
than enough to satisfy the ice folks.

Lynn

30,000 miles on the S10E with NiMH and still as strong as the day I
bought it.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/722



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Eidson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 11:40 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Inspection Woes

So I take my bike
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231
down to the local ADOT Level II inspection station to get a VIN number
and title........the first guy looked really concerned and asked how
many cc's.  I explained that it was a 13 HP electric motor.  He said
that that was not enough for highway use.  I explained that it would go
over 65 MPH.  He said I don't think we can do this and went to get his
sargent, who came out with a camera and took a bunch of pictures and
said that they could not inspect it and would send the pictures
"upstairs" for review.  They would get back to me in 2-3 weeks.  Since
this bike was built from scratch and does not have a VIN number what do
you think my chances are for getting a title?  me



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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The officer might surprise you badly.. :

" .. Don't try that on me !! I'm regular Wall Street Journal reader and I bet you're friend of that Zombie guy. Her's $500 more for misleading an officer..."

Publicity is not "good" for the cause always :)

Imagine... soon you might have A123s in the Tweety... someday.. why not ?

After that the driver might just need it too..

A quote from a drug book in a net somewhere...

"Lithium is used to treat the manic episodes of manic depression. Manic symptoms include hyperactivity (driving around city teasing ICEs), rushed speech (in parking lots to explain what the heck EVs are for), poor judgment (Drag racing in traffic), reduced need for sleep (who the heck want's to sleep when you can be out on the treets putting shame on Ricers and V8s), aggression ("keep yur gusslers out..of.. my.. WAY!!"), and anger (ned new tires! AGAIN ! WTF!)."


-Jukka


MIKE WILLMON kirjoitti:
"But honest officer, this thing is only battery powered,  I couldn't possibly have 
layed those 100 ft twin black stripes.  It must have been that Red 5.0 liter Mustang that 
was next to me at the light. :-O"

Do you think that would work for a Pinto?  I mean no one in their right mind 
would ever suspect.....a Pinto?

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 1, 2007 11:18 am
Subject: Re: Another Tweety grin...
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

At the next light, a bright blue PT Cruiser pulled
up. A young lady stuck her hand out the window in a thumb’s up gesture and said, “Really cool ride!�

Made my day! :)
Hey Ken

She probably just watched you blow away the MC 8^)

What's funny is I can picture you getting pulled over
by a cop asking you if you're the one who just layed
rubber back at the light, and you replying "What! in
this thing! Please!"  LMAO

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric



____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433




--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have a Emeter, than you can use the watts per mile instead of the AH. 
Of course this will be the average amount of battery amperes times battery 
voltages.

Or if you have a AC input volt-amp meter and calculated the volts x amps = 
watts for a constant current charger and average out the voltage curve or 
better yet, use a AC watt meter to give you how many kilowatt hr it takes to 
charge the batteries for a given number of miles.

Or just take the average battery amperes times the average voltages for a 
ball park estimate for the wattages.

Now lets say you use about 10k watts to go 50 miles, then if you paying 11.5 
cents per kilowatt, then the 50 miles will cost you about $0.115 x 10 = 
$1.15

If gasoline is $3.45 a gallon, then $3.45/$1.15 = 3

So you can go 3 times the distance with the electric with $3.45 or would be 
equivalent to 3 x 50 miles = 150 miles per gallon equiavlent or MPGE

The formula now becomes:

MPGE = ((cost of gal of gas)/(kw use x cost per kw))x miles travel

Roland

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Mccabe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev-list" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 3:26 PM
Subject: MPG Equivalent ?


>   I don't know the formula for figuring my mpg
> equivalent for my conversion.
>  My nominal pack voltage is 156volts and I'm drawing
> right around 90amps on level ground at 60mph(234
> wh/mi). Electricity costs me 11.5 cents per kilowatt.
> If you could share the formula so I can save it for
> future testing this would really help.
> Thanks,
> Jeff McCabe
>
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Eidson wrote: 

> If I use the formula someone suggested earlier it has a 72V x 1000A x
> 1.341 = 96.5HP.  I guess that will be enough for highway use........

If your goal is to come up with an impressive-sounding number to get the
bike licensed, this will work, but it is nowhere near the power you
actually have available.

At 1000A, your pack will sag to something between nominal and perhaps
half that, so something in the 36-72V ballpark.  You've got Odyssey
AGMs, so let's be generous and assume they sag to about 50V @ 1000A.
This gives 50kW from the battery, or about 67HP, but doesn't account for
losses.  A rule of thumb is to assume 1000W/HP to account for losses, so
you're down to about 50 motor HP peak (and that is likely optimistic
since the motor is probably nearer to 60% than 80% efficient at this
current).

But, 1000A is the max motor current your Z1K can deliver; >350A is what
it can sustain continuously when hot/warm.  Unless the highway portion
of your trip is quite short, an even more realistic estimate of your
available power is more like 24.5kW (70V * 350A) at the battery, or
about 24.5 motor HP.

Looking at the thermal specs for your L91-4003 motor, it looks like it
might be able to sustain this level for about 5min without overheating.
The 1hr rating of 15HP @ 96V suggests that the 13HP (@ 72V) you stated
to the inspector was a realistic and honest assessment.

However, since gas engines are rated at peak output, I think that is the
more appropriate value to quote in this situation; either use the stated
value of 62HP @ 96V or extrapolate based on the published 96V and 120V
data to arrive at 52HP @ 72V a a pretty realistic estimate of the peak
power you can get from this motor in your application.

So, tell the inspector it is a 50-52HP peak motor, but be aware that in
actual highway use you are likely to be limited to somewhere between
13-24HP maximum for any length of time, and this will impact the speed
you can maintain during those highway jaunts.

Cheers,

Roger.
 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I used to race several different year models of pinto's on some of the local
dirt tracks around my area.  They are pretty stable little vehicles.  Good
luck on building your EV.

Thanks, Freddie

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/899
http://www.southernev.com/dakotaev.htm

 

  


-----Original Message-----
From: MIKE WILLMON [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 4:09 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Soon to be Pinto Grin (was RE: Another Tweety grin...)

Sad, but true.  Makes me feel old now ;-)  But seriously, in making phone
calls to look for parts, and when I had to rent the tow dolly to bring the
donor home, and just recently talking to the battery reps, when asked "make
and model"  I say " '78 Pinto" .  On several occasions I have received
immediate chuckles instantly when I say that.  There is some memory floating
around of this ex- flame ball :-)  We'll see what people remember about it
now after it kicks their ass at the track :-)

Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.

>Tim Humphrey  wrote:
> 
> That might work. But, keep in mind there a probably quite a few 
> cops on the force today that have never seen and don't know what 
> the hell a Pinto is; or what a slow piece of crap it was before you 
> modified it.
> 
> 
> 


> > Mike Willmon wrote:
> > 
> > "But honest officer, this thing is only battery powered,  I couldn't
> > possibly have layed those 100 ft twin black stripes.  It must 
> have been
> > that Red 5.0 liter Mustang that was next to me at the light. :-O"
> > 
> > Do you think that would work for a Pinto?  I mean no one in their 
> right> mind would ever suspect.....a Pinto?



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Andre', this doesn't like much more than a series of switches, and not all that expensive. A reed switch on one cable, and a heat sensor switch on the controller. What else did you have in mind that drives up the cost to new controller range?

Bill Dennis

Andre' Blanchard wrote:
So now we need a circuit the will only allow S2 to close or remain closed when the motor current is low enough, and the controler is not too hot, and etc.. This is the point at which it gets cheaper to buy the right speed control because learning when it is safe to have S2 closed is going to burn up a few of the cheaper controls unless you are real lucky.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
that is in line with NM registration, i was unable to
select zero cylinders, so i have 1 cylinder electric
motorcycle

--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You could tell them, it a one cylinder motor, with a
> displacement of the 
> inside diameter divided by 2 and square times 3.14
> times the stroke.  The 
> stroke being one turn of the armature.
> 
> For my 11.5 inch GE motor that has a 10 inch ID by
> 18 inch stroke is 
> calculated by:
> 
>                    Pi x radius square times the
> length or
> 
>                   3.14 x 5 x 5 x 18 = 1413 cu.ins.
> 
> 
> Or you could take just the volume of the inside of
> the motor which would be 
> for me is:
> 
>                    3.14 x 5 x 5 x 16 inch long =
> 1256 cu.ins.
> 
> Now lets say you have 400 volts of batteries that
> can deliver 2000 amps 
> through a 2000 amp controller, now the hp would be:
> 
>                    (400 x 2000)/746 = 1072 HP
> 
> A motor half the size with a battery pack of 1/2 the
> power might get you 
> over 500 hp.
> 
> Roland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 2:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes
> 
> 
> >
> > --- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Maybe Jim Husted would measure the displacement
> of a
> > > motor armature the size of your's and you could
> > > validly say that the little moving part that
> goes
> > > around inside displaces xxx  CC's ;-)
> >
> > Hey Mike
> >
> > That's funny!
> >
> > Although I'm not sure how funny the ceace and
> desist
> > order from some nasty sounding government office
> would
> > be 8^o
> > Nor would it be fun to find myself having to write
> an
> > 800 page document varifying my methods and
> > qualifications 8^P
> > Furthermore I'm doubting a quick "Gee officers I'm
> > just a small electric motor shop" being an option
> here
> > 8^)
> >
> > I love helping you guys out but I'm going to have
> to
> > let you guys fight this battle.  I do have a few
> extra
> > Spartan spears lying around the shop if someone is
> > needing to barrow one though ;^)
> >
> > Besides, I'm going to be busy enough here
> informing
> > the public that forklifts don't use Siamese 8
> motors,
> > LMAO!
> >
> > Had fun
> > Cya
> > Jim Husted
> > Hi-Torque Electric
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready
> 
> > for the edge of your seat?
> > Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
> > http://tv.yahoo.com/
> >
> > 
> 
> 


Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1221
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play 
Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  

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I just need to convice them that the vehicle is capable of high way
speeds.  What speed will the 13 HP continuous rating sustain on a bike
like this?  It is geared for 65MPH @ 5000RPM.  I agree with the 50HP
peak number which should be more than sufficient for highway use.  My
commute is 7 miles one way on 45 MPH surface streets so this is not a
real issue.  I could have some fun at stop lights though.......me


On 8/1/07, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mark Eidson wrote:
>
> > If I use the formula someone suggested earlier it has a 72V x 1000A x
> > 1.341 = 96.5HP.  I guess that will be enough for highway use........
>
> If your goal is to come up with an impressive-sounding number to get the
> bike licensed, this will work, but it is nowhere near the power you
> actually have available.
>
> At 1000A, your pack will sag to something between nominal and perhaps
> half that, so something in the 36-72V ballpark.  You've got Odyssey
> AGMs, so let's be generous and assume they sag to about 50V @ 1000A.
> This gives 50kW from the battery, or about 67HP, but doesn't account for
> losses.  A rule of thumb is to assume 1000W/HP to account for losses, so
> you're down to about 50 motor HP peak (and that is likely optimistic
> since the motor is probably nearer to 60% than 80% efficient at this
> current).
>
> But, 1000A is the max motor current your Z1K can deliver; >350A is what
> it can sustain continuously when hot/warm.  Unless the highway portion
> of your trip is quite short, an even more realistic estimate of your
> available power is more like 24.5kW (70V * 350A) at the battery, or
> about 24.5 motor HP.
>
> Looking at the thermal specs for your L91-4003 motor, it looks like it
> might be able to sustain this level for about 5min without overheating.
> The 1hr rating of 15HP @ 96V suggests that the 13HP (@ 72V) you stated
> to the inspector was a realistic and honest assessment.
>
> However, since gas engines are rated at peak output, I think that is the
> more appropriate value to quote in this situation; either use the stated
> value of 62HP @ 96V or extrapolate based on the published 96V and 120V
> data to arrive at 52HP @ 72V a a pretty realistic estimate of the peak
> power you can get from this motor in your application.
>
> So, tell the inspector it is a 50-52HP peak motor, but be aware that in
> actual highway use you are likely to be limited to somewhere between
> 13-24HP maximum for any length of time, and this will impact the speed
> you can maintain during those highway jaunts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
>

--- End Message ---

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