LOL, sorry Bruce, I never quite made it to the bottom of your post to even see there was a question there. Although I think your sign idea is kind of cool, I also think it would seem a tad odd on a non EV... Although it would work well on a Chevy Volt :)
I'm still befuddled though as to how making sure people understand the difference between a really good PIH like the Volt and a pure Plugin EV helps the EV cause. I guess maybe I don't understand your version of the EV cause. I know that different people have different reasons for loving EV's. Some think it is just cool technology, many feel it is a much better solution for environmental reasons, others feel the energy independence EV's can provide a country (or even an individual) is a compelling argument etc.. The Volt seems to be a vehicle that falls in line with all those wishes and can be driven as a pure EV so I fail to see why making the distinction is important. Perhaps you are just a very detail oriented person and the simple fact that there truly is a difference and that people are constantly getting it wrong gets on your nerves. Or perhaps I just misread your original post and you did not feel compelled to point out the difference it just came up in the course of the conversation... damon > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 03:21:39 -0700 > Subject: [EVDL] EV <> pih/phev <> ice > > I wish damon and peter had answered my post's question, but instead > decided to hijack my thread with their off-topic view of how much they > like the Volt plugin hybrid. Both of them should know by now how long I > have been promoting plugins (which covers both EVs and pih). > > And that I have to be terse with the amount of words I can use in my > posts to describe what I said to the employee (likely too many already > think I am way-too verbose as it is). So the next time someone reads > something I post and mentally goes off in an emotional tangent with > something they picked out, ... count to 100 ... take a deep breath, then > remember when it comes to EVs and pih/phevs (like the Volt pih), I got > your back (I am for both). > > So, if the evdl is going to discuss EVs vs pih/phev then let it be on > this thread for that purpose. Remember to keep this on topic, but also > lets put a time limit as pih/phev discussions are *OT on the evdl and > should be taken offline. > > John's post in reply to the above two responses > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EV-cause-promotional-signage-tp4662108p4662117.html > ' ... make the distinction between a hybrid and an EV. EVs are not > inherently better, but they are different ...' > > is close to my points/views. The poor public is so confused over what is > what, we, the plugin community have a responsibility to gently help undo > all the misinformation that has been spread around. > > When the public talks of what they know about plugins, which actually is > what they have heard as if it is their own opinion/knowledge, I do not > debate them (that is counter productive), but gently herd them into > coming to their own conclusion/decision that what is being put into the > vehicle to power it (on or off grid electricity, or chemical fuel, or > both) is what defines a vehicle's type. > > Meaning, though a Volt driver may drive around all the time in > Electric-only mode, their vehicle, by design is a plugin hybrid, a blend > of both EV and ice. It can neither be called an EV, nor an ice. > > When I talk to the public, it has to be in a simple wording that conveys > what they can take ownership of without it being too technical (like > explaining that the Volt is plugin hybrid. i.e.: the employee did not > even know what a plugin hybrid was). On the evdl, their are very > knowledgeable members that are great at defining down to the smallest > delineation what is what. But to even begin to do that with the public, > their eyes glaze over, roll-back, and soon you lose them (their > attention is lost = a bad thing for an EVangel). > > ... > All the Volt owners I have chatted with like their vehicle, but over 90% > say they want more Electric-only range, i.e. 80+ miles. To me, that > translates to they want all the benefits of an EV 'and' they want their > angst safety net of an on-board ice that a plugin hybrid > offers/provides. So, Volt and other pih drivers, please do not get > defensive when you hear or read words that tell the truth that the love > of your life, your pih, is not an EV. It isn't, and be proud of that. > > In the case of that employee, I did not have time (because he was on > camera - if he talked too long his boss could get on his case), nor was > he interested in knowing the full details of EV vs pih. But in other > cases when in the public, the person does give me the time and shows the > sincere interest in knowing, I liken the difference the common man can > easily grasp. I use an analogy: > > Chocolate-Chip ice-cream is mostly vanilla ice-cream with some chocolate > chips thrown in. It is neither chocolate ice-cream, nor is it vanilla > ice-cream, it is both, a hybrid ice-cream. So goes a plugin hybrid. If a > customer only eats the few Chocolate-Chips out of their Chocolate-Chip > ice-cream, and not the vanilla ice-cream, does not make the > Chocolate-Chip ice-cream now chocolate ice-cream? No. It means they > chose to eat their Chocolate-Chip ice-cream, in chocolate-only mode. > > ... > Now the hairy bit, defining what type of plugin hybrid as their are > different types of these. From all that I have read and heard from Volt > drivers, their on-board ice can drive the vehicle alone, or injunction > with the Electric-motor, or be totally off when running in Electric-only > mode. > > I am going to by-pass discussing a Karma at this time as they seem to > have enough woes. But lets look at a new player, the BMW i3 which will > have an plugin hybrid option. You can buy an i3 as an EV with a 80+ mile > range, or get one with the small on-board ice genset as a plugin series > hybrid that has an 80+ mile Electric-only mode. > > Their i3 plugin hybrid design is different than a Volt's. If a Volt > driver wanted to drive the steep grapevine highway to or from Los > Angeles (I-5) or the steep mountains from LA to CO, GM designed their > pih to do that with no issues. However, BMW's design uses a lighter, > smaller motor-scooter sized ice which is just enough to keep the pih > going on less-demanding highways. That means the large amount of weight > of an ice to drive the wheels has been exchanged for a lighter genset to > pump electricity into the pack > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_i3 > http://www.caranddriver.com/news/bmw-i3-electric-city-car-concept-news > > Currently, a Taiwan scooter company Kymco is going to build the small > ice used for the genset on the i3 plugin option. There are newswires > that mention the plugin hybrid genset is not for daily use. Although a > lot of this is still pre-release, meaning we will have to wait for the > final design limitations, it seems i3's pih gives a better design for > those that just want enough ice to cover their angst, but the majority > of the time, they will drive their pih in Electric-only mode. > > However, since the i3's Electric-only range is nicely about the same as > Production EVs, it would be a shame if the BMW i3 did not offer a > level-3 charging ability. At this time, it is unclear if the i3 will > definitely have a l3 ccs SAE combo coupler port. I fear if not, that > short-sightedness will hurt their sales as many customers would have > liked to have the l3 same quick-charging abilities as the Leaf and iMiev > EVs. > > > {brucedp.150m.com} > ... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equals_sign#Not_equal > <> means not-equal-to > ... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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