Don't miss this excellent comment by vike1108: ============== vike1108 · 6 days ago
I think balancing "Quick and Quiet" against "Higher Cost" is an important way of considering the value question. Too much analysis of EV value focuses on "How soon will it pay for itself?", after which one looks at electricity rates, gas prices, miles driven, etc., and the price of a LEAF vs. a Versa (or if we're being more reasonable, a Sentra). The thing is, an EV is nothing like a similar-sized compact or subcompact. Before buying my much-maligned Mitsu i-MiEV, I took a test drive in a top of the line Prius C5 (a marketplace darling for whatever reason); there was absolutely no comparison between the two driving experiences. Compared to the i-MiEV's jolly go-kart dynamics and swift, sure, and silent launches, the Prius C was a wretched little punishment box, no matter how much leather and techno-gimcrackery they slathered on it. If we start with the idea of passenger and cargo space and take a Corolla as our baseline, upgrading to a LEAF is one way of adding value to the driving experience, while upgrading to a Buick Encore Premium is another. Either way, you're moving to a similar-sized vehicle with a more sophisticated drivetrain and various additional amenities. And while it's fair to say the Encore has some virtues the LEAF does not, the reverse is every bit as true. Even with its turbo and 6-speed auto tranny purring along at their best, the Encore doesn't come close to the LEAF's silent torque and on-tap instant power. An Encore Premium and LEAF S are within $1k of each other, and that's at MSRP - figuring in federal tax incentives, even a LEAF SL is thousands cheaper. I think the question of which car is the better value is very subjective, and drivers hooked on that "electric smile" wouldn't find it a close contest. And all that is based on the vehicle's capacity and driving experience, independent of operating costs, etc. So why doesn't anybody ask how long it will take the Encore to "pay for itself", to justify the hefty premium it demands over the Corolla? Well, one good reason is that there's no objective sense in which it possibly could, so the question's just not worth asking, is it? Ironically, it's because the LEAF in fact CAN reasonably be claimed to pay much of its own way that the argument turns quickly to whether it pays ALL its own way. That's a double standard, based on the reality that we've been trained to pay for brands and luxury features and levels of performance that are meaningless in everyday driving, and don't have any equivalent experience in valuing the unique appeal of EV driving, something that the overwhelming majority of drivers have so far never bothered to experience for themselves. ======== On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 3:29 AM, brucedp5 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > http://www.plugincars.com/electric-cars-pros-and-cons-128637.html > Electric Cars Pros and Cons > By Brad Berman · October 24, 2013 > > [images > http://www.plugincars.com/sites/default/files/model-s-signature-red-620.jpg > Tesla Model S > > http://www.plugincars.com/sites/default/files/leaf-dash-range-620.jpg > Nissan LEAF dash > ] > > Like almost anything in life, electric cars have their pros and cons. You > can expect a site like PluginCars.com to generally promote EVs as having, on > balance, a lot more benefits than shortcomings—but that doesn’t mean we > can’t offer an honest assessment of the pros and cons of cars that use > electricity rather than petroleum. Here it is, short and sweet. > > PROS > > The Tesla Model S is known as a screaming fast sedan, but all electric cars > are very quick. > > Quiet and Quick > > It only takes one ride in a battery-powered car to understand the improved > ride quality of an EV compared to a vehicle using a petroleum-powered > internal combustion engine. An electric car is very quiet and very smooth. > It makes most regular cars seem clunky and outdated. What surprises people > more is the high torque (axle-twisting power) offered by EVs. Step on the > accelerator and power is delivered immediately to the wheels, providing an > exhilarating driving experience. > > Home Recharging > > Imagine never going to a gas station again. All you have to do is pull into > your garage or driveway, reach over for a plug, and push it into the > charging inlet. It’s very convenient and takes all of about 15 seconds. Wake > up the next morning, and you have a car ready to go another 80 to 100 > miles—or longer, depending on the model. That’s plenty for everybody except > long-distance commuters. (This equation can be more difficult for people > living in condos and apartments, but access to multi-family and workplace > charging is improving everyday.) > > Cheaper to Operate > > In most parts of the world, electricity is ubiquitous and cheap—with a big > cost advantage over petroleum. Given the considerable efficiency of electric > cars compared to internal combustion models, the cost per mile to fuel an EV > is approximately one-third to one-quarter the cost of gasoline (on a cost > per mile basis). And because electric cars don’t have exhaust systems and > don’t need oil changes, maintenance costs are reduced. To maintain an > electric car, just rotate your tires and keep them properly inflated. > > No Tailpipe Emissions > > Nearly all credible researchers believe that electric cars, even in > coal-dependent regions, have a smaller environmental impact than > conventional vehicles. In regions with a strong grid mix of renewables—such > as hydro, wind and solar—or for electric car drivers with home solar, the > emissions benefits are dramatic. You can expect some analysts to argue the > opposite. But it's incontrovertible that EVs don’t have a tailpipe, and > therefore provide a real benefit to improving air quality for you, your > family, and your community. > > CONS > > This Nissan LEAF indicates an optimistic driving range of 85 miles. > > Limited Range > > It’s everybody’s cool EV term: Range Anxiety! It stands for the worry that > occurs because most affordable electric cars only have about 80 to 100 miles > of range, and take hours to fully refuel. EV advocates will argue that 100 > miles is plenty for most driving. As a result, nearly all electric car > drivers rarely if ever experience range anxiety. It’s also true that the > range and cost of electric car batteries is incrementally improving every > year. Still, unless you drive an electric car with a back-up range-extending > engine, you need to properly plan: to assure that routes beyond predictable > local driving are within range (or allow for a time to recharge). > > Long Refueling Time > > Concerns about range are closely tied with issues related to how long it > takes to refuel an electric car. EVs commonly can add about 20 to 25 miles > of range in an hour of charging from a 240-volt source of electricity. So, > while you can’t run down to the gas station and add a couple hundred miles > of range in five to ten minutes, and while many road trips are not > advisable, drivers putting typical amounts of miles on their cars will not > be impinged by recharging times measured in hours—as long as they remember > to plug in before going to sleep. (One other factor: public DC Quick > Chargers, capable of adding about 50 miles of range in around 20 to 25 > minutes, are increasingly available in regions with relatively high numbers > of electric cars.) > > Higher Cost > > The current crop of electric cars are mostly priced between $30,000 and > $40,000. That makes EVs considerably more expensive than comparably equipped > small to midsized gas-powered vehicles. (For example, the Honda Fit and Ford > Focus can be had for less than $20,000. ) In this light, EVs are indeed > expensive. However, cost comparisons usually fail to consider a number of > factors, including: incentives often valued at $10,000; competitive lease > rates as low as $199 a month; lower maintenance costs; and a luxury feel and > amenities that far exceed what’s found in those cheaper gas models. > > Lack of Consumer Choice > > The dozen of or so plug-in electric vehicles on the market consist mostly of > compact and sub-compact pure electric cars, and midsize plug-in hybrid > sedans. (There are two exceptions, both relatively expensive: the full-size > Tesla Model S sedan, that commonly costs around $100,000; and the > limited-run Toyota RAV4 EV small SUV, with a $50,000 price tag.) > Unfortunately, the style of the most popular EVs is polarizing: you either > love it or, if you hate it, you hold off on purchasing an electric car. EV > choice will expand over time, but in an auto market with dozens of brands > and hundreds of models, the choice for buyers wanting an electric car is > currently limited. > [© plugincars.com] > > > > > For all EVLN posts use: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date > > Here are today's archive-only EV posts: > > EVLN: San Diego, CA's 6000+ Plugins and 500 Public EVSE = an EV-leader > EVLN: Head2head compliance-car comparison, 2014 Honda Fit & Focus EVs > EVLN: UK Leaf production @1M & growing consumer confidence > EVLN: Leaf EV long-term review > EVLN: Musk on 'electric car-hating' BBC-TopGear's Clarkson > + > EVLN: VW CEO Sez Germany’s 1M EV Goal Doable > > > {brucedp.150m.com} > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-plugincars-com-s-pros-and-cons-tp4666004.html > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- David D. Nelson http://evalbum.com/1328 http://www.levforum.com _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
