"Most of the hydrogen in the United States is produced by steam reforming of
natural gas. For the near term, this production method will continue to
dominate. Researchers at NREL are developing advanced processes to produce
hydrogen economically from sustainable resources"At present, just in the US. we
already have an electrical grid with billion of outlets that can be used to
charge EV's. Mine is about 25ft from my PHEV.At present there are few H2
fueling stations, less than 100 and most are many miles from vehicles.I applaud
your wanting accuracy.
Could you comment on the present delta energy also to fuel? from all my reading
and study, disallowing future methods that are either unrealized ideas or still
in the labs and non commercial.ie whats there now....
From what I can tell the purveyors and cheerleaders of Hydrogen fuel cells
basicallyhave huge sunk costs, huge investments, both intellectual and monetary
and haveto justify those and refuse to be honest about the true costs of the
entirefuel supply lineyou have to include the whole chain, not just the "only
H2O exhaust."respectfullyrobert
NREL: Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Research - Hydrogen Production and Delivery
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| | | | | | | |
| NREL: Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Research - Hydrogen Pr...Printable Version
Hydrogen Production and Delivery Most of the hydrogen in the United States is
produced by steam reforming of natural gas. |
| |
| View on www.nrel.gov | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
| |
From: Mark Abramowitz via EV <[email protected]>
To: brucedp5 <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: status> the newswires are changing, & $till being
manipulated
Resending, as it seems that the server ate it.
---------
Hi Bruce,
I greatly appreciate the news stories you bring, and hope you continue your
good work for a long time to come.
While I disagree with your opinion about fuel cells, I respect your right to
those opinions. But, you ought to be accurate in your facts. I know that the
press is sometimes loose with those facts, so offer a few factual corrections
below, with the recognition that I may also make a mistake or two.
See below, and I have trimmed your comments to only items relevant to my
responses.
(And according to the group charter, this is on-topic, though my preference is
hearing about the great projects that people are doing with battery electrics)
On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:22 PM, brucedp5 via EV <[email protected]>
> Key points to note on the EV-history timeline:
>
> -Though TMC sez 2016 is when their fcvs will be available, they have stated
> $63k is the starting price. Note that is lower than the new cost of the
> lowest priced Tesla-S trim.
The cost that they have announced is $57,500, before rebates, or $499/month for
a lease, with some cash up front. If you're in California, as I am, the cost is
likely less than $45,000. That includes all fuel for three years, all
maintenance (and they will pick up your call for maintenance), and possibly
other benefits that I've forgotten.
> And also note that automakers have been touting
> fcvs 'are just around the corner' for years, so do not be surprised if their
> actual release to the public date is pushed out yet again, like after a
> Presidential election (hint, hint, wink, wink, etc.).
Hyundai has already been making them available to the public, but Honda has
pushed out their date due to the recall issues that you've likely heard that
the industry is having.
> -Almost all newswires use common wording (likely provided by the automakers)
> that have 'electric vehicle' and or ' electric car' in it. While most do
> not say their fcv is an EV, those words are thrown in so as to make their
> newswires be found on news searches (I do it for free, other people search
> for investment info, etc.).
As if they are not electric vehicles? They are.
>
> -Some interesting playing with the wording is happening: while none of the
> fcv newswires mention the h2 comes from cheap natural gas, and no one is
> saying what is done with the gunk left over after the h2
> extraction/reforming, they are touting some electric-only mile ranges (~30+
> miles), because the fcvs have a small li-ion pack (not unlike a
> plug-in-hybrid).
Perhaps that's because the hydrogen can come from many different places,
including natural gas, biogas, wind and solar. To suggest that it's all coming
from natural gas would be misleading, and is frankly irrelevant to the product
that *they* sell.
>
> Even some wording that the puny-pack is a range-extender: 'with a
> combination of a hydrogen fuel cell and a range-extending lithium-ion
> battery'
That's true. The batteries are bigger than that of a normal car, but smaller
than the packs in a pure battery electric.
>
> -The few natural-gas/cng newswires ...
Sorry, I drive a CNG vehicle, a much cleaner choice than the others that were
available to me.
> 'coming' h2 fcvs (which are really equivalent to natural-gas using/burning
> old-school hybrid vehicle: using a fossil chemical fuel, with a few Electric
> components so automakers can confuse the public by touting fcvs as electric,
> etc.).
No, not equivalent to the hybrid in terms of emissions and impacts on public
health; and yes, as electric as a battery EV.
>
> -'5minute refueling time' is still the big fcv wording push, but the future
> TMC fcv mentioned above only has a 300mi h2-range. That translates to more
> than 5min
Why do you think their 5 minute claim is incorrect?
>
> -None of the chemical-refueling cost$ of fcvs are ever mentioned in the
> newswires (as in no price is set yet).
The vehicles that were announced include the cost of fuel in the price of the
vehicle. Good for consumers, and mainly having to do with weights and measures
issues.
> I hope that when they do, they had
> better put in terms the public will understand and use to compare running
> co$t$.
Amen. I agree 100%.
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