Paul and All, If I read it correct the couple is discharged completely so yes in equilibrium. Charge it and see what happens to the Ni-Fe couple. One of the most discharging battery couples there is with only a 60% charge eff and 5-10%/day discharge when used as an EV/Edison battery. Not to mention needing water every few charges. And these besides cost, why EV's stopped using them. I never mentioned magnetic, just potential fields to power the entropy. Jerry Dycus From: paul dove via EV <[email protected]> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Zero self-discharge" Well, I am no physicist Jerry but it seems that they would attract on another if there was a magnetic field inside. Here is an except from a physics professor. A good electrolyte has several interesting properties; for one thingit has lots of ion-pairs in it. When we put an ion-pair in anelectrical field, such as in the Ni-Fe gap, the positive ion willtend to driftone way and the negative ion will tend to drift the other way. This processwill continue until the electrochemical field in the interiorof the gap becomes a constant, independent of position, whichis the equilibrium condition. There could be some electricalpotential gradient; I don’t think there is much but therecould be some. And there could be some concentration gradient;again I don’t think there is much, but there could be some. Inany case, when you consider the concentration gradient andthe electrical gradient together, in equilibrium there is nonet motion of ions. In the simplest case, there is no electricalfield (hence no drift) and no concentration gradient (hence no netdiffusion). In the more general case, drift due to theelectrical potential gradient is counterbalanced by diffusion along theconcentration gradient. The two gradients point in oppositedirection, and when we add the two effects (electrical andconcentration) we find that the electrochemical potentialhas zero gradient.All that applies to the interior of the gaps, in the bulkelectrolyte. At the ends of each gap, there will, in general, be someaccumulation of ions. This produces a complicated dipole layer (akabilayer) there. The strength of the dipole layer depends on theproperties of the electrolyte, as well as on the properties of theadjacent metal, as discussed in section 2.4. The strength ofthe dipole layer determines how the potential in the interior of thegap is related to the potential in the interior of the adjacent metal.For more about the importance of dipole layers, see reference 3. http://www.av8n.com/physics/battery.htm
From: jerry freedomev <[email protected]> To: Paul Dove <[email protected]>; Lee Hart <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Zero self-discharge" Hi Paul and All, From: Paul Dove via EV <[email protected]> To: Lee Hart <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Zero self-discharge" There is not an electric field inside a battery. -------Really? There certainly is potential voltage fields and nothing is perfect, just good enough not to have bad things happen. The electrolyte cause the field to be in equilibrium otherwise it would immediately discharge. ---------- I've never seen such a perfect fluid that will only pas energy 1 way. Entropy will always happen. Though I agree little does in good quality lithium batteries. But saying electrolyte is a perfect insulator in just 1 direction strains physics too far. The field is present when the terminals are connected and that is why you get ion movement. --------- Well that is the plan but reality bites as again potential, entropy happens. Though in my own Volt modules I'll just limit charge, discharge and monitor with BattBridges, LightObject 404 Wthr meter as discharge is too low to matter in high quality cells. Jerry Dycus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150623/a4c4a913/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
