You said 1-4%. We weren't talking about solar on the house, but on the car. Wasn't that the point.
I would use the S&P index for a comparative rate of return. *Every* rate is based on a commensurate risk, but I don't consider the S&P risky over the long term, and we *are* talking about long term returns, aren't we? I can't advise you what to do with *your* investments, as everyone has different needs, but these days a safe high dividend paying stock will give you better and relatively safe returns. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 22, 2015, at 1:50 PM, Robert Bruninga <[email protected]> wrote: >> Most investments pay more than that. Using bank interest as an > indication in this low interest rate environment isn't appropriate. > > Huh? Tell me where? I have a CD at 2.2% and my advisor said hang on to > it, since she knows of no other similar secure investment rate. The other > CD is at 1.9% and same thing. She says that is about the same or better > than she can get. My bank pays 0.8%. > > Sure there are better rates but at commensurately higher risk. But there > is nothing more guaranteed and secure than the sun and solar. Period. > 10 to 18% return on your solar panel investment on one's house. For > example. Bob > > On Sep 22, 2015, at 9:55 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> Sounds like yearly payback is somewhere between $10.00 and $40.00. >>> Sounds kind of small for an investment of more than $1000. >> >> That's 1% to 4%. Better than most banks. And FAR better for the >> future since it displaces X amount of coal burning. >> >> So if it is equal or better than most other investments, AND it is >> definitely better than using coal electricity for ALL of us, then many >> would jump at the chance. >> >> Bob >> >> On September 22, 2015 7:19:43 AM MDT, EVDL Administrator via EV >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On 22 Sep 2015 at 3:50, brucedp5 via EV wrote: >>> >>>> ? Is this a useful product worthy of the co$t, or is it a profitable >>>> feel-good add-on for bragging-rights ? >>> >>> Much of the answer is right in the story: >>> >>>> As a yearly average, the system generates 29 percent of the total >>> energy >>>> required to drive eight miles per day in West Palm Beach, Fla. That >>> reduces >>>> the energy needed to recharge the battery by 29 percent. Results may >>> vary >>>> depending on area and usage. >>>> >>>> By continually transferring energy to the batteries, the panels >>>> limit >>> how deep >>>> into the battery reserve a vehicle must go during a typical use. >>> >>> I suspect this is a best-case estimate. Let's run some numbers. >>> >>> First let me warn you that there's a fair bit of hand-waving here. >>> I'm not an expert in these matters. If you're a PV expert and can >>> come up with >>> >>> better numbers than mine, by all means please do so. >>> >>> IIRC a typical golf car range is around 40-50 miles. Using standard >>> T105 >>> type batteries this amounts to an energy usage of between 126 and 158 >>> Wh/mi. >>> Let's call it 150 Wh/mi for convenience. >>> >>> Driving 8 miles per day will require 1200 WH per day or (1200 * 365) >>> == >>> >>> 438000 Wh/year if you drive the car every day (as the PR release >>> seems to suggest). >>> >>> This panel can produce 100 watts, but if that's a typical rating >>> it'll only apply when the golf car is parked in the sun with the sun >>> directly overhead. >>> At other times the output will be lower, but I'm not a solar expert >>> so I don't know by how much. I'll take a wild guess and estimate >>> that the panel will average 30 watts over an average day's sunshine >>> (including dawn and dusk). Someone please correct me if that's too far > off. >>> >>> So that's 30W * 12h == 360 Wh/day * 234 days (average sunny days per >>> year in West Palm Beach) == 84240 Wh/year. This is 19% of the energy >>> required to drive 8 miles per day, about a third less than Club Car >>> claim, but surprisingly close. >>> >>> But even my 19% estimate assumes the golf car will be in the sun any >>> time the sun is shining. If you park it in a garage, or in the shade >>> of a building or tree, it gains little or nothing. How many people >>> deliberately park their cars (golf or otherwise) in the sun on a hot >>> summer day in Florida? >>> >>> Other factors will affect solar gain. For example, if you drive it >>> on a tree lined street, or a city street with tall buildings around >>> it, it will gain less solar energy. >>> >>> So, is this just a "feel-good add-on"? Well ... as with any other >>> vehicle option, how much a given user gains from this one depends on >>> where and how she drives. But for most users, I'd say it'll probably >>> yield more bragging rights than range. >>> >>> What it MIGHT do that's potentially at least as useful -- IF you park >>> mostly in the sun --- is dribble a little charge back into the >>> battery when the car isn't being driven. That'll improve battery >>> cycle life a bit. >>> Calculating >>> whether the resulting battery cost savings will offset the cost of >>> the PV panel will be left as an exercise for the reader. ;-) >>> >>> FWIW, in looking for info on this I ran across several dealers >>> offering >>> >>> aftermarket PV panel options for golf cars. One claimed a (peak) >>> output of >>> 220 watts. The price was $1450. >>> >>> Is it worth it? I see 12v 50w generic PV panels on Ebay for around >>> $100 >>> each. Five of them would give you peak 250W into a charge controller. >>> >>> Speaking of which, I see 48v, 30-45 amp charge controllers on Ebay at >>> prices from $160 to $260. >>> >>> The dealer I mentioned above also provide a roof frame and struts. >>> What do >>> you think that's worth, maybe $150? So they're making around $700 on >>> each >>> kit. That's a 100% return on the parts cost. Not too shabby. >>> >>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA >>> EVDL Administrator >>> >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL >>> Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. >>> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the >>> webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV >>> drag racing at NEDRA >>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag >> racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag >> racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag > racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
