---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:02:10 -0800 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Updated: Outdoor home EVSE: Installing External > ChargeAccess > From: [email protected] > > Mike, > L1 is only 110V as fas as I know, > so 240V 50A is more than most L2 can sustain and definitely L2. > I think many countries do not have L1 where the household supply is 230V > (delivered as 3-phase 400V to reduce copper usage by 1/3 since > the "Neutral" return only needs to be the same gauge as of each of the > phases, since the phases partially cancel each other,
-Hm, I have almost forgotten about the situation in your place how do you do 1 phase motors efficient? I dont get it Say if you have a large motor? for example *over* 2kW that is about what a normal 1.5mm2 cable for 1phase can do here, over that level it really starts to be a bit crazy to use a 1 phase motor here BTW I think here (Sweden) the maximum "unbalanced" *feed in* power at 1 of the phases(=230V) is about 3500 W, after that it is "illegal" / not allowed by the powercompany to install. And about 4600W allowed unbalanced power in Germany (feed in = for example grid tied solar, or the steamengine :-) But what if you need to connect your 40 kW windmill at your 1phase house ? that would demand insane cables and crazy currents at the very low voltage us-system. And do you still *always* use only 1 wire(phase) systems instead of 3 , even if it is rotating stuff you need in the endpoint? (like motors or generators) what if you get a bigger async motor, how to turn that efficient if there is no rotating field between the normal L1,L2,L3 at the terminals? :-) Do you use inverters for your big motors/generators to generate the 3phases? > which is similar to the common US "two phase" system that saves 1/4 of > the copper as also here the Neutral is the same gauge as the 2 phase > wires instead of double the surface. -Sometimes it is just 3 of the powerwires +shield(connected to earth/ground) and sometimes it is no shield. (+neutral +protective earth) Because if you have no 230V-stuff (1phase&neutral = 230V) at the end of the 400Vac motor cable, then you probably dont need the neutral anyway > The standard household outlets in Europe are 230V 16A which means that > they can deliver about 3kW continuously - Almost correct, I think The old standard is called Schuko, se pictures http://www.internationalconfig.com/icc6.asp?item=70141 that translate to "safety-plug", I guess.. and I remember reading that it is not always specified to be continuous used at max load. i think it is 6hour at 16A. but did not find that now, So about 3600W resistive load. Also some have 1phase blueplug=230V outdoors, a 16Amp Europlug. it is similar to the normal industrial 3phase "redplugs", red =400V ("IEC 60309" , but they are 16A @ 6h rating. but it is more robust, have lock, & IP44 if they are mounted to face downwards) -But of course it is only ok with 16A per phase if you have copper enough and then fuses for this. 16Amp needs the fat cables of 2.5mm2 inside the walls to be correct. 1.5mm2 will get hot.. Normal households plugs here have 1.5 mm2 and 10Amp fuses So that is enough for about 2.3kW resistive per group and 1 phase plug(s) = 230V = and we use neutral for return. (I assume it CAN be ok / legal to install a wall-charger at "400Vac from 2 phases", then we use no neutral as I think 400 Volt also is the voltage between 2 phases, in that way you get even more power(4kw?) out from 2pcs of 10A 1.5mm2wires :-) and if we have 16A 2-phase I think it wil be: 400V*16A =6400W @1.5mm2 :-P but.. you should of course NOT use a "230V 1-phase" shucko/IEC-plugs at a 400Vac extensioncord.., as dangerous fuckups *will* occur later when you plug in something else there, that cant handle you nice and lethal illegal 400Vac "230"-cord.... :-) > incidentally the older Leaf L2 > charger power spec (half the full L2 spec of 6kW of 240V 24A which maxes > out a standard 30A dryer outlet) And 6kW switchmode 3phase chargers would only be about 8.7 amps here = we use 1.5mm2 copper. (my houses main fuses are 20Amp) 3phase FTW ! ;-) / John _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
