I see, you think that if ARAMCO charges less that the brokers don't care? Mike
On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 8:09 PM, dovepa via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > Oil prices are controlled by brokerage firms just like all the other > commodities. IMO > OIL Prices, adjusted in relation to current fluctuations, have essentially > been a straight downward line since last September, when they fell from $ > 50 a barrel to the current $ 29. What was so momentous that happened in the > world market in September? That was when "Goldman Sachs" lowered > expectations for the average oil price for 2016 to $ 20 a barrel, echoed by > Merrill Lynch, Bank of America and others.The $20 quoted by Goldman Sachs > was not a forecast, it was the target. Economy Ministries make forecasts, > while Goldman Sachs makes the markets. Oil contracts are only 2% percent of > the raw materials market, the rest being speculative securities, futures > and other derivatives. Prices for futures are not determined by supply and > demand, but by “expectations”, with the market controlled by the largest US > banks, using rating agencies, "independent" experts and the media. > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone-------- Original message > --------From: Michael Ross via EV <[email protected]> Date: 3/10/2016 > 4:14 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Peri Hartman <[email protected]>, Electric > Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN > status ... EV-news-drought ... We've been spoiled > ... > I am not completely sure about the randomness of oil prices. The main > driver of oil prices is the Saudis. They got fed up with losing market > share to renewables and other countries. It is a business decision on their > part to put the kabash on oil sands, more deep sea exploration, fracking, > etc., EVs too maybe. They see, in retrospect, their reduced production > over years past as a mistake. It essentially built up their competition > and they are putting an end to much of it. > > They have enough oil to keep this up for a very long time - geopolitics > notwithstanding. > > I have stayed away from energy investing primarily because there is so much > manipulation unconnected with actual need, cost of production, futures > trading, and so on. It is not exactly a free market. I am regularly > surprised by what happens since I am an outsider, and that is not a good > basis for sound investing. > > Mike > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I'm a bit more optimistic. I know Koch Bros are ramping up their stint. > > However, there are some big differences between this time and the last > > time. First, the majority of the population believes global warming is > > caused by CO2 and other gasses we're adding to the atmosphere and that we > > need to do something to reduce that effect. The other big difference is > we > > have Tesla who is ramping up production and planning to introduce their > > "cheap" 200 mile range car. If the other automakers don't have parity, > > they will lose that market share. We're not at the hump in mainstream > > adoption so I'm not concerned about the people who expect to buy a 200 > mile > > range EV for $15K. I'm concerned about the still relatively early > adopters > > who will pay $30K and I am pretty certain those people aren't listening > to > > Koch & Koch. There are other factors, too, not the least of which is > that > > the price of oil could come back up just as rapidly as it went down. > > > > Peri > > > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > > From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: 10-Mar-16 12:12:04 PM > > Subject: [EVDL] EVLN status ... EV-news-drought ... We've been spoiled > ... > > > > > >> > >> In my previous evdl posts: > >> > >> > >> > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-status-feast-or-famine-gt-sign-of-the-times-td4679110.html > >> EVLN status ... feast or famine> sign of the times > >> Dec 08, 2015 > >> > >> > >> > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/OT-EVLN-EV-newswire-status-td4676627.html > >> OT: EVLN EV newswire status ... > >> Jul 05, 2015 > >> > >> I explained how much time I spend trying to find, then spend time > >> reformatting & cleaning up the text, and then adding related links to > the > >> news items I post. > >> > >> I also mentioned that IMO there was a change coming in how many (juicy, > >> interesting) EV news items that would be released, as well as an > increase > >> in > >> the anti-EV dark-forces out there trying to subvert the EV-competition > to > >> ice-sales and petrol-consumption. > >> > >> Well, that time is here. It is more than the million$ the Koch Brothers > >> have > >> pumped into the anti-EV campaign, the drop in oil prices to try to sell > >> off > >> as much as possible and get the public to go back to buying SUV > >> gas-guzzlers, and more than the ever-stronger rump style of > >> insane-thinking > >> going on during the days before the coming U.S. election. > >> > >> We have had it so-good for a very long time, but those heydays are over. > >> Some have been cynical, and some have complained of topics they see, but > >> lets stay grounded and remember because of this EV-news drought is as > >> severe > >> as the CA-water-drought, there is going to be some scraping of the > barrel > >> to > >> get any items of the interest caliber of the past (2010-2014). > >> > >> Meantime, not unlike the CA-residents who now have pretty much gotten > past > >> their complaining over having brown lawns (no watering), neighbors > >> complaining of their water use to wash their cars, etc., the plugin > >> community will have to endure the current good-EV-news drought we are > are > >> going through. > >> > >> Yes, there is currently a lot of noise being made from some automakers > of > >> what is coming years from now, but it is all fluff and puff until they > do > >> start producing what they 'say' they will. > >> > >> There are also distractions going on, like all the mad damage-control > >> effort > >> from VW, and now Volvo has released many news copy items that if you > read > >> into them, they are pushing what GM wanted: that all EV-makers switch to > >> using combo css couplers as a '1-size fits all' EVSE standard. While > this > >> is > >> a topic that needs addressing, the way Volvo is doing it, it much more > of > >> -pr- push for them, again with years away from them producing that EV. > >> > >> Something that has not come up yet in the news, but may also have a > >> delaying > >> affect on EV sales, is the now current transition toward 200mi, and lots > >> of > >> talk about 300+mi range EVs. To the EV-noob(layman) they may be holding > >> their breath until these come out, and when they do, they will want them > >> to > >> be cheaper than the cheapest ice (Tesla/champagne taste on a > golfcart/beer > >> budget). > >> > >> The first of the year is over yet I have not seen any automaker effort > to > >> garner CARB credits by selling EVs. Perhaps, once the elections are > over, > >> and automakers know if they will have another another GW in office that > >> will > >> undo,dismantle all the CARB-mandate sales restrictions, or (hopefully) > >> not. > >> Then automakers will repeat selling, leasing their compliance cars, and > >> those news items touting-same will flood once again. > >> > >> I had mentioned in the past how from time to time the news items were > >> colored with key words so that someone searching for EV items (like me) > >> would find fcv or cng items, etc. That type of news-bombing (diluting & > >> polluting) has begun again. I am also seeing misleading headlines, just > to > >> read in the body text that it is an anti-EV spew (Koch dollars at work). > >> > >> Perhaps my efforts to use some of the space with non-U.S. EV activities > >> (e-tuk-tuk, e-rickshaw, lEVs & nEVs in China, etc.) might seem to some > >> like > >> just filler. I am hoping that it shows that outside the U.S. there is > >> still > >> hope for the EV-cause. Though they may not have the income nor roads to > be > >> able to purchase $30+k EVs, their desire to wean away from oil-headaches > >> is > >> there. Also keeping mind that the evdl has readers that are non-U.S., > >> where > >> the evdl provides EV news they have difficulty accessing from their > >> country > >> (Internet access is not the same everywhere). > >> > >> Plus, much of the DIY, conversion news items I find are not coming from > >> the > >> U.S., but are being performed in countries where EVs are still > relatively > >> new and hard to get. > >> > >> So, there may also be another level to the EV-cause: those that only > want > >> to > >> read what they can buy here, now, today (production EVs); and those that > >> can > >> see a bigger picture of others doing their EV-cause part with what > income > >> and EV sources they have. > >> > >> As always I ask for you comments, views, and ideas on these EVLN posts I > >> make. Since I touched on OT subjects, please have your responses follow > >> the > >> evdl charter, and restrict your OT posts. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: > >> http://evdl.org/evln/ > >> > >> > >> {brucedp.150m.com} > >> > >> -- > >> View this message in context: > >> > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-status-EV-news-drought-We-ve-been-spoiled-tp4680916.html > >> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at > >> Nabble.com. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > > -- > To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. > Thomas A. Edison > <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> > > A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. > *Warren Buffet* > > Michael E. Ross > (919) 585-6737 Land > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google > Phone > (919) 600-2892 Cell > > [email protected] > <[email protected]> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160310/85f12d6c/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160310/3582257f/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 600-2892 Cell [email protected] <[email protected]> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160310/f17307ed/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
